S05.E09: The Empty Spaces / S05.E10: Don't Do This for Me

[secnarf]

Episode 9: The Empty Spaces

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Reynolds gets creative to help a prospective mother in need; Max takes a chance with Wilder and learns a hard truth; Bloom treats a young brother and sister in dire straits; Iggy reaches a decision about Martin.

Episode 10: Don't Do This For Me

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Reynolds finds himself caught between a chance for love and an opportunity to spend precious time with his father. Realizing the consequences of her actions, Bloom makes an unexpected move forward with her sister. Max helps an ICU intern struggling with the loss of a patient. Dr. Wilder receives an offer that forces her to choose between her community and her career.

Both airing on November 22, 2022.

[bros402]

Come on, let episode 9 be Iggy deciding that he blew up his life for no reason and goes back to his amazing husband.

Just need to remember that this is two episodes back to back (but not a two parter, at least?) so I give myself enough time to watch it and figure out who the worst doctor is (for each episode, I guess - unless it ends up being a two parter, then I will have to do one for each half, then an overall worst)!

[TooMuchRealityTV]

10 hours ago, bros402 said:

Come on, let episode 9 be Iggy deciding that he blew up his life for no reason and goes back to his amazing husband.

I feel like Martin deserves better than a guy who blows up a marriage for no reason.

[LexieLily]

17 hours ago, bros402 said:

Just need to remember that this is two episodes back to back (but not a two parter, at least?) so I give myself enough time to watch it and figure out who the worst doctor is (for each episode, I guess - unless it ends up being a two parter, then I will have to do one for each half, then an overall worst)!

It's not a two-parter? Then why are they showing two episodes back to back?

[bros402]

13 hours ago, TooMuchRealityTV said:

I feel like Martin deserves better than a guy who blows up a marriage for no reason.

He does... so Martin should reject him when he goes back to him. I at least want Iggy to realize how good he had it

6 hours ago, LexieLily said:

It's not a two-parter? Then why are they showing two episodes back to back?

based on the descriptions it doesn't sound like a two parter - they are probably just trying to burn it off

[LexieLily]

Wilder's monologue to Max was fantastic not to mention needed, but I can't say it enough how uncomfortable it makes me and how bad the optics are that Max is learning ASL (and taking ASL classes) for Wilder because of his 'feelings' for her. Max is the medical director of the oldest public hospital in the United States. There is no reason he shouldn't have learned sign language as soon as Wilder's new-hire paperwork was presented and signed, as a way to communicate best with their new employee. Wilder has worked at New Amsterdam for over a year now, and Ben is wonderful, but he can't be with Wilder 24/7 at work. It's just...sad and it goes against everything Max Goodwin ostensibly stands for that he hasn't until now done anything concrete to make his newest hire who is a department head feel comfortable and accepted at work. 

Even last week when he asked her out on a 'date,' they are still typing to each other on their phones and computers to have a full-fledged conversation.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I was working on my side gig (online tutoring) when this started so I missed out the first half hour and then sporadically paid attention after, but here are my thoughts.

Why is Floyd deciding if a pregnant woman should have labor induced, doing ultrasounds, counseling her, etc.? Is this like ER where there is never an OB in the hospital? And he can decide to place psych holds? 

It kind of feels like the writers know the series finale is coming but also aren’t fully ready for it. Iggy and Martin are already back together, but they’re pushing the Max/Wilder/Helen issue with four episodes left and leaving that hanging. I can’t believe the big cliffhanger is whether or not Max will go meet Helen at the bar. I’m a Sharpwin shipper and I’m not even sure if I care after the writers ranked the relationship to begin with. Impressive that they got Freema to fill that TV spot though.

Lauren and her sister. Who cares? 

[catrice2]

So, I kept my word and I have not watched ONE episode this year. I did, however, say before Freema left that I could see them making something between Max and Wilder. 

It is forced and it is the final slap in the face for the fans who watched for the "joy" and romance they were promised.  Now on TVline it pops up that Helen returned and Max (predictably from these writers) was pursuing Wilder.   Just why?  If you are not going to put them together, don't use Freema as a plot point to make Max realize that Wilder is "the one."  It just continues the LAZY terrible writing that destroyed this show!  Obviously we know Freema is shooting something else and is not in the US, so there is only one way this can go. Additionally, I have forgotten the terrible plot points, but I thought Helen couldn't talk or hear at some point last year, wouldn't Max have thought of possibly learning a different way to communicate then ? 

I am also appalled at the story of him learning ASL for Wilder!  That is the only part of the recap that I read, I didn't have the energy for any of the rest of the people but I have to assume Iggy, Lauren and Floyd are terrible as usual.  Wilder was at least o.k., but I see they had to ruin her by tainting her with Max......

I, for one, do not appreciate Ryan's dopey,  earnest style of acting and I can't see why they would write him as the "leading" man, but also write him as a man no sane woman would want in a romantic relationship!   He doesn't know who he is so he reinvents himself all the time and attaches to something or someone to have a purpose!  The only way this show should end is with Max SINGLE! 

Edited November 23, 2022 by catrice2

[LexieLily]

10 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Impressive that they got Freema to fill that TV spot though.

They didn't. That was footage from season one.

[Cloud9Shopper]

9 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

They didn't. That was footage from season one.

Wow that’s an impressive memory. I completely forgot… 

[LexieLily]

2 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Wow that’s an impressive memory. I completely forgot… 

In the interest of full disclosure, it wasn't me, it was Twitter that remembered. Ha!

[txhorns79]

I'm glad they showed Helen at the end.  That's the real reason that Wilder should be wary of romancing Max.  He literally was going to marry a different person about six months ago until she dumped him!  Also, Wilder may be a great surgeon, but it seems kind of crazy that her mentor just seemed to assume that Wilder was qualified to start up and run a medical school for the deaf.  I would think you would need a background in administration, and actual know how and experience in running that kind of endeavor.    

As for the rest, Max must just be magic.  Not only did he draft an entirely new survey for the psych department in what must have been an hour, but they managed to run it three different times in one day with enough of a response each time to come to definitive conclusions.  I may have also missed something, but when Iggy said he had essentially cured the former ECT patient's break by figuring out he needed vitamins, did we actually see any of that, or was it all just an exposition dump to the board lady? 

I'm also confused about Reynolds and his father.  Last week, the guy wasn't stable enough to leave the hospital without court ordered family supervision.  This week, he's self declared that he's ready to live on his own again, and Reynolds is just fine with it.

And am I wrong, or didn't they find out a couple of seasons ago that Bloom's mom had such problems with alcohol and booze because she had an undiagnosed medical condition that was causing her substantial pain?  I thought that led to a reconciliation between Bloom and her mother.  They seemed to be acting this season like the reconciliation didn't happen.    

[circumvent]

8 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Max is the medical director of the oldest public hospital in the United States. There is no reason he shouldn't have learned sign language as soon as Wilder's new-hire paperwork was presented and signed, as a way to communicate best with their new employee. Wilder has worked at New Amsterdam for over a year now, and Ben is wonderful, but he can't be with Wilder 24/7 at work.

True about the learning ASL because he should but interpreters do stay with people in some cases, quite close. It is a job

8 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Why is Floyd deciding if a pregnant woman should have labor induced, doing ultrasounds, counseling her, etc.? Is this like ER where there is never an OB in the hospital? And he can decide to place psych holds? 

Because the largest public hospital in the country doesn't have more than one whatever Floyd is, apparently. Imagine, NA is a city in itself, and there is one doctor multitasking. Let's see who can roll their eyes best.

8 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Lauren and her sister. Who cares? 

Thanks

[Cloud9Shopper]

8 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

And am I wrong, or didn't they find out a couple of seasons ago that Bloom's mom had such problems with alcohol and booze because she had an undiagnosed medical condition that was causing her substantial pain?  I thought that led to a reconciliation between Bloom and her mother.  They seemed to be acting this season like the reconciliation didn't happen.    

It was last season. And yeah, I thought it was weird that Lauren didn’t seem to mourn at all whatsoever. There was one scene of her cleaning up after what looked like a funeral lunch and then she’s back at work and completely over it. 

[izabella]

11 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Lauren and her sister. Who cares? 

I appreciated her sister being there because it gave Lauren someone outside the hospital to yell at.  She has been insufferable lately, especially to PATIENTS, yelling at everyone who comes in for a drug-related ailment.  Her sister yelled right back at her, at just as high a volume, and that was satisfying since I wanted to yell at Lauren to STFU and keep her personal drug issues to herself instead of letting it spill over onto her patients and their families.

10 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm also confused about Reynolds and his father.  Last week, the guy wasn't stable enough to leave the hospital without court ordered family supervision.  This week, he's self declared that he's ready to live on his own again, and Reynolds is just fine with it.

I guess his dad is on meds now and that's helping, but without supervision, Reynolds can't be sure his dad will continue to take the meds the way he's supposed to.  Isn't that a thing with bi-polar medication?  People seem to want to stop taking it because they like the highs and don't like losing that feeling?

Edited November 23, 2022 by izabella

[Madding crowd]

12 hours ago, LexieLily said:

Wilder's monologue to Max was fantastic not to mention needed, but I can't say it enough how uncomfortable it makes me and how bad the optics are that Max is learning ASL (and taking ASL classes) for Wilder because of his 'feelings' for her. Max is the medical director of the oldest public hospital in the United States. There is no reason he shouldn't have learned sign language as soon as Wilder's new-hire paperwork was presented and signed, as a way to communicate best with their new employee. Wilder has worked at New Amsterdam for over a year now, and Ben is wonderful, but he can't be with Wilder 24/7 at work. It's just...sad and it goes against everything Max Goodwin ostensibly stands for that he hasn't until now done anything concrete to make his newest hire who is a department head feel comfortable and accepted at work. 

Even last week when he asked her out on a 'date,' they are still typing to each other on their phones and computers to have a full-fledged conversation.

In real life the medical director probably stays in their office all day and only interacts with department heads at meetings where an interpreter would work . Wilder works with all kinds of staff and it is unlikely that they all would learn ASL. Is Iggy serious about telling a schizophrenic that he can be helped without medication? I have never heard that before, I always thought medication was needed even more than talk therapy. Why was the guy in a penthouse? I might have missed something there. Bloom’s mother must hate both her daughters to leave money to someone who will use it to destroy herself.

[izabella]

2 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Is Iggy serious about telling a schizophrenic that he can be helped without medication? I have never heard that before, I always thought medication was needed even more than talk therapy. Why was the guy in a penthouse? I might have missed something there.

I think he said he was an IT guy?  My guess on Iggy is he saw the guy had been fully capable of functioning on his own, enough to support himself and get that really nice apartment, so it was likely possible his condition was manageable without medications.  Otherwise, I don't get it, either.

[KaveDweller]

35 minutes ago, LexieLily said:

Wilder's monologue to Max was fantastic not to mention needed, but I can't say it enough how uncomfortable it makes me and how bad the optics are that Max is learning ASL (and taking ASL classes) for Wilder because of his 'feelings' for her. Max is the medical director of the oldest public hospital in the United States. There is no reason he shouldn't have learned sign language as soon as Wilder's new-hire paperwork was presented and signed, as a way to communicate best with their new employee.

To be fair to Max, Wilder was hired to replace Helen when Max was leaving. He didn't need to start learning ASL when she was hired because he had quit by then.

Lauren's mother's estate is only $7 million? That is a lot of money but I thought her family was like, mega-rich. I would have expected that to be 10s of millions of dollars worth? Didn't Lauren spend like hundreds of thousands like it was to bribe her girlfriend into a job? If she had a trust fund with that much you'd think her mother would be worth way more.

How much time passes in these episodes? It seemed like one day for some storylines, but then they conducted like 3 different surveys and got results in that time period?

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

 I may have also missed something, but when Iggy said he had essentially cured the former ECT patient's break by figuring out he needed vitamins, did we actually see any of that, or was it all just an exposition dump to the board lady? 

We saw Iggy asking the guy about all his protein shakes and then everything else was an exposition dump. I do think vitamin deficiencies can cause a lot of health issues, but I don't think you can totally turn someone around in what seemed to be one day. Are we supposed to think this guy popped a couple of multivitamins and then instantly had a mental health turn around?

12 hours ago, catrice2 said:

If you are not going to put them together, don't use Freema as a plot point to make Max realize that Wilder is "the one."

I don't think they are. Max has been pursuing Wilder pretty hard these last couple episodes. He'd already decided she was the one. They are using Freema to cause conflict, because Wilder finally decided to say yes. 

1 hour ago, izabella said:

I guess his dad is on meds now and that's helping, but without supervision, Reynolds can't be sure his dad will continue to take the meds the way he's supposed to.  Isn't that a thing with bi-polar medication?  People seem to want to stop taking it because they like the highs and don't like losing that feeling?

Yes, I think some people who are bi-polar will intentionally go off their meds.

I guess we are supposed to forget that Reynolds promised the court he would let his dad live with him and watch over him? I don't think they can just change their minds if that was a legal arrangement.

[Pepper the Cat]

Sure Iggy. Go alone to a strangers home alone. Good plan. And then let him yell at people coming to the hospital.  

[circumvent]

2 hours ago, izabella said:

Isn't that a thing with bi-polar medication?  People seem to want to stop taking it because they like the highs and don't like losing that feeling?

People stop taking medication for different reasons. It depends on how their manic and depressive states manifest itself. Some people have very low lows, and some people have very high highs, and some people don't like the doping feeling, the sleepiness some meds cause, or they feel that they are doing well so they just stop "for a while", which doesn't work. We don't really know how Reynolds father is, unless I am not remembering what we were shown. Was he depressed at some point? I only remember when he was completely manic (which seemed badly done to me, but I don't know much about it). I have seen bipolar people with severe depression that needed medication to function, but who didn't have a debilitating manic phase.

[LexieLily]

13 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

And am I wrong, or didn't they find out a couple of seasons ago that Bloom's mom had such problems with alcohol and booze because she had an undiagnosed medical condition that was causing her substantial pain?  I thought that led to a reconciliation between Bloom and her mother.  They seemed to be acting this season like the reconciliation didn't happen.    

Last season Mama Bloom showed up in the ED, Lauren was rude to her and Leyla helped Lauren figure out that Mama had some sort of disease, yes. I forget how that storyline ended but I could've sworn Lauren and her mom spoke to each other somewhat calmly by the end.

[Aliconehead]

3 hours ago, circumvent said:

People stop taking medication for different reasons. It depends on how their manic and depressive states manifest itself. Some people have very low lows, and some people have very high highs, and some people don't like the doping feeling, the sleepiness some meds cause, or they feel that they are doing well so they just stop "for a while", which doesn't work. We don't really know how Reynolds father is, unless I am not remembering what we were shown. Was he depressed at some point? I only remember when he was completely manic (which seemed badly done to me, but I don't know much about it). I have seen bipolar people with severe depression that needed medication to function, but who didn't have a debilitating manic phase.

I have multiple people with bipolar in my life, it is common for a couple of them to stop taking their meds, they then end up much like this guy until they can be hospitalized and “forced” back on medications.  The hospitals will only keep them until they are stabilized. 

4 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Lauren's mother's estate is only $7 million? That is a lot of money but I thought her family was like, mega-rich. I would have expected that to be 10s of millions of dollars worth?

When the scene first started, the lawyer mentioned a trust, which is probably where all money is. I assume the 7 million was the moms private funds.  

[Brian Cronin]

4 hours ago, Aliconehead said:

When the scene first started, the lawyer mentioned a trust, which is probably where all money is. I assume the 7 million was the moms private funds.  

Yeah, exactly my thought, but then...wouldn't the sister's money ALSO be in a trust, and thus this money wouldn't matter, right?

[circumvent]

I, for one, didn't like the speech Wilder gave to Max. It came out as contemptuous and full of resentment. I can see how deaf people feel left out and ignored, I have been around many. At the same time, Max is a product of the same society we all share, with the same systems of discrimination, oppression and all that. It is a bit ridiculous that she feels something for him, but will not accept the relationship because he didn't grow up learning ASL and because he can never understand what being deaf means. If we start going down that rabbit hole, there will always be someone to resent because of some oppression or the other. 

Besides, I have seen too much ableism coming from the Deaf community towards other disabled people. Many Deaf people don't consider themselves disabled and treat intellectually disabled people - and autistics or other developmentally disabled people - as lesser humans. I have seen some openly deride others with the "I am not like THOSE people" type of comment. And there is more. Like in our relations between living things, diversity makes things better, stronger, it allows for survival. Staying within the same group can cause diseases and other issues. The analogy is that more interaction leads to more understanding, diversity of cultures and ways of living. It is more than a romantic way of seeing things. There are possibilities in connections and relationships between different groups of people in the cultural sense. A group closed in itself will eventually die down, disappear. The system that creates the problems will not be changed by force, or laws, so it needs some kind of "infiltration" to make diversity the norm.

Even if in the end Wilder was alerted to that - I couldn't see the conversation between Marlee Matlin's character and her because I had captions turned on, which got on top of the captions for the translation, and I was too lazy to go back  - it annoyed me that the speech to Max had to be there as a blaming thing. I wish Max had responded to it in a different way. He was too kind.

[bros402]

I had to split this over two nights because ughhhh, episode 9 was SO BAD

Check the end of the post if you just want to see the worst doctors and not my gigantic wall of text commentary.

 

oh no, two episodes in a row

reynolds dad where did you even get all of that stuff? reynolds seems like he would live in a building where there is a guy to do all of that stuff and not take weeks to respond because he is rich

bloom you cannot force your sister to become sober

i mean i guess you are trying to force her to hit rock bottom

but if you are executor, maybe try to get her to go to rehab?

"I'm sorry" wasn't one of the basic prhases you learned in the ASL class?

patient satisfaction survey? uh oh, if everything isn't perfect, max is going to stalk everyone who didn't answer a 5 until he finds out exactly why.

...Why would you expect oncology to have the lowest scores, Awesome Deaf Doc? In my experience, oncologists or their staff tend to be some of the greatest people in the hospital - I would expect the ER to have the lowest scores.

how does Iggy's department have 91%? the man sees like 1 patient a week

well, he *does* have his awesome assistant - so she must be running a tight ship

oh, Max sees them getting a good score as bad, because they aren't middling enough? wat

bloom how did you do a scan that quickly? HOW DO YOU KNOW HER ARM IS PARALYZED?

also, what he is telling you sounds a lot like he and his sister could be undocumented or just that their parents were deported - not fully a lie

and uhhh Reynolds, hopefully you get Iggy in on this suicidal pregnant patient

max you do know these surveys have to be run by a bunch of people right - since the surveys the hospital do are a Medicare thing, I believe

oh hey, that patient is the actor who was one of the doctors on House and on one of the Walking Dead shows

how do you know his cancer has shrunk dramatically just from counts?

oh fun, the guy threw away his pills. Best case scenario I see for this plot: guy has some chronic blood cancer and achieved spotaneous remission - which has around a 1% chance of occurring

reynolds why is iggy not here with the clearly suicidal patient, she needs a hold

okay, she's an addict who just thinks something will happen now she has fallen off the wagon

uhhh, preg patient, 26 weeks is viable - but it isn't realllly super safe because of a host of factors, including lung development

bloom, he is obviously going to run when he is getting his bag

oh, okay he locked himself in her room

iggy, your funding isn't tied to Max's Special Surveys - don't worry

hey max, you're right! Iggy sees pretty much no patients

oh god max no, first come first serve for therapy is horrible - at best, you want to have drop in hours

just like iggy said

in before the cancer patient has brain mets that caused the behavior

noope, just a health nut - I *hate* cance rhealth nut plotlines. Just had a deal with a real life health nut with my cancer and oh my god these health nuts are so annoying. Talked a bit about them at a cancer convention this weekend, too.

oh my god i'm only 20 minutes into this episode and I have typed this much?

everything he has been taking probably contradicts each other in one way or another

um bloom does the head of the ER really have time to sit in an observation room with a patient's sibling

oh, parents died of COVID - not deported

REYOLDS YOU ARE NOT AN OB

NEITHER IS THE NURSE

and reynolds this is why you should have invovlved Iggy before this point

and max this is why you shouldn't have canned every appointment for psych

but how did so many people show up so quickly

that is a good description of Max, Iggy - he's "over everything" and he should be strangled some times

I am so tempted to start looking up all of those bottles of supplements Cancer Dude was taking, but I would be googling for the next hour and I am only 24 minutes in and this show does not deserve that level of effort - I have been watching the show for 40 minutes already

let me guess, the guy was taking a low dose chemo drug as one of his supplements?

um, they won't deliver that baby at 26 weeks unless they have to - just because a patient states that she will kill herself doesn't mean they will pop it out

WHY IS IGGY NOT INVOLVED IN THIS

bloom you do not know if she will make a full recovery unless she has regained consciousness and undergone a battery of tests - she might also need OT/PT if she has weakness or paralysis

the brother also needs to become a ward of the state, Bloom - he's not an adult yet

iggy I bet yelling at Max about this feels so good - he is so wrong about this

wilder, that is well known taht viagra was nto invented as an ED drug

ok, so he has rare cancer that he inadventently treated with the meds. One of the meds that was being tested for my cancer was actually trialed the same time as a hair loss drug - but it ended not working for the cancer.

MAX APOLOGIZED???? THROW A TICKER TAPE PARADE!

no iggy do not compliment max on his horrible system

oh good you did office hours like I was thinking

but you shouldn't have it be every day jeeez

HOW ARE THEESE SURVEYS BEING FILLED OUT SO QUICKLY

reynolds a psych consult wouldn't done this so much quicker and easier

and, well, not talking to a cardio surgeon

yay, iggy, you kissed him

hopefully he rejects you for blowing the marriage apart

uh oh is bloom's sister gonna get everything in the will

yuup

that is totally gonna turn out well

at least Bloom doesn't need the money?

"I always ruin a good thing" - that should be put on Max's tombstone

nooooooooo don't be crazy about Max, awesome deaf doctor

YESSS, HE DOESN'T KNOW ASL - SHOOT HIM DOWN

You think Max would've set up an ASL program for everyone at the hospital who wanted to learn (or at least the department heads and people in the oncology and onc-surgery departments). That wouldn't happen in real life... but yeah...

Okay, so who's the worst doctor of this episode? Honestly, that has to go to Max - he tried to destroy the psych department. It would've gone to Reynolds, but at least the people in the OB department were there to help him out

 

okay, time for episode 10

oh...fun, reynolds and the travel nurse have been sexting

aaand blocked by the dad... or the fish/bait?

IGGY'S HUSBAND HOW COULD YOU BE SEDUCED SO QUICKLY BY IGGY AFTER EVERYTHING HE HAS DONE, YOU ARE NOT IN THE HOSPITAL, SO YOU SHOULD NOT BE ENTRACED IN THE WAY THAT EVERY TV HOSPITAL MAKES EVERYONE HAVE SEX IN CLOSETS

why did all of the kids go in there

are iggy and his husband loud in bed and the kids were hearing it

or do they have a certain musk when in heat

oh good, Max is doing some high intensity ASL training... like he should've been doing all along - not just for trying to DATE YOUR SUBORDINATE

I wonder if that is an actaul deaf/hard of hearing actress? If so, that is great for them to have more representation on the show!

uh oh awesome deaf doctor, don't tell max no, that'll just make him run through a brick wall to try to get it done

yesss, tell max to do his actual job

ok, why doesn't the ICU have a substitute attending?

and is max even certified in intensive medicine or w/e the specialty would be?

ok so iggy's plt of the week will be the homless dude, let's see how badly the show handles this - hopefully not as bad as the marijuana plot?

wait, is this *another* deaf actress? Okay, that's cool. Wait, is that Marlee Matlin? Realized that halfway through the conversation

and of course the ER patient is Bloom's sister. Let me guess, if she lives this will magically make her want to get clean even though she has been at this level for the last however long?

max, why do you not have a fully functioning keyboard - a new keyboard is like $10 at staples

and max, that is actaully halfway decent advice about hospice - frame it as another stage of life (Especially since people can graduate from hospice!). It's also why some hospitals have changed hospice and palliative care department into a more general "supportive care" department, to remove some of the stigma.

marlee matlin, can't awesome deaf doctor do it part time? unless it isn't in the NYC area, that is

bloom, you should not be lecturing your sister while you are her doctor, especially if you are going to yell at her

aaand you screamed at your vulnerable sister

resident/whoever you are in Max's plotline, it was not your fault that the patient died - you were off of your shift and it was an aortic aneurysm

iggy, I bet your could help this guy in his apartment - he's rich enough and close enough to the apartment for you to make a house call until he is comfortable to go to the hospital

uh oh, piano music - i bet this is gonna be sad news about Bloom's sister

and of course, iggy's patient probably has some kind of fungal thing or deficiency from the protein shake to cause that weird rash

YES AWESOME DEAF DOCTOR TAKE THE JOB

oh hey max didn't try to talk her out of it

instead a "you're so inspirational!!!" speech instead..... ugh

...I mean I guess "take your vitamin" is better than "scare people away with yelling" - he's obviously worth a lot of money, maybe have board lady talk to him, have money talk to money?

bloom, you can turn your back on family - blood doesn't mean you are obligated to be by their side always. No contact is a thing for a reason.

i am surprised that Bloom is setting limits with her sister and sent Reynolds with a message instead

oh hey it's a NA card

reynolds why don't you have a passcode on your phone

aaand reynolds dad is leaving - is that it for the series? if so, WHY DID THEY SPEND SO MUCH TIME INTRODUCING HIM, THEY WASTED SO MUCH TIME ON A USELESS PLOT

and iggy's husband realizes he made a mistake, didn't he? 

yuuuuuuup

damnit awesome deaf doctor, take the amazing job

aaand she's running after max

will the two of them run and embrace in the rain

will she have to run to his apartment and knock on his door and kiss?

what trope will we have?

aaand she has to catch him right as he is leaving... and the TV is talking about Sharpe!

um so how does one "represent the fight against cancer"???? That footage looked familiar - was it from a earlier season, just with some editing to it?

ok, so I don't know if this show has worn me down so much - or if that episode was just *that* bad, but this episode actually seemed somewhat decent.

So, who's the worst doctor this episode? That honor goes to.... I think Bloom - she was acting as her sister's doctor and as her sister, even yelling her unconcious!

Worst doctors:
Episode 9: Max - he tried to destroy the psych department with his insane scheduling debacle.
Episode 10: Bloom - she has to either be her sister's sister or her doctor. However, there really wasn't much in the way of competition for this episode - so she is just barely Worst Doctor.

On 11/23/2022 at 12:12 PM, KaveDweller said:

Lauren's mother's estate is only $7 million? That is a lot of money but I thought her family was like, mega-rich. I would have expected that to be 10s of millions of dollars worth? Didn't Lauren spend like hundreds of thousands like it was to bribe her girlfriend into a job? If she had a trust fund with that much you'd think her mother would be worth way more.

I am guessing that almost all of the money is structured in ways to avoid probate - Lauren has her own trust (I think when she was being blackmailed by Evil Director, she said she had to get some from it?) and I imagine those trusts own the apartments (or at least rent them).

The estate is probably just some properties and some property

[CoyoteBlue]

Yeah, the first thing I thought when Little Junkie Sister inherited everything was "This bitch gonna binge HARD and probably OD. Better not let Bloom treat her when it happens or the cops might assume she botches it for the money."

[Johnny Dollar]

The final episode should be Max being institutionalized as a sociopath who is addicted to chaos. Chaos in his personal life, chaos in his professional life and someone who gets off on spreading chaos wherever he goes. 

[circumvent]

52 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

The final episode should be Max being institutionalized as a sociopath who is addicted to chaos. Chaos in his personal life, chaos in his professional life and someone who gets off on spreading chaos wherever he goes. 

The thing is, Max is the opposite of sociopath. Sociopaths are also not addicted to chaos. They prefer order. But forget about all that. Institutionalization is abuse and a last resort. Definitely not a reason for complicated people with "chaotic" lives

[bros402]

15 hours ago, Johnny Dollar said:

The final episode should be Max being institutionalized as a sociopath who is addicted to chaos. Chaos in his personal life, chaos in his professional life and someone who gets off on spreading chaos wherever he goes. 

He's not a sociopath

and obviously it will end with Georgia staring at a snowglobe of New Amsterdam, talking to her pregnant belly while Max is wiped out from chemo.

[FnkyChkn34]

On 11/22/2022 at 10:33 PM, LexieLily said:

Wilder's monologue to Max was fantastic not to mention needed, but I can't say it enough how uncomfortable it makes me and how bad the optics are that Max is learning ASL (and taking ASL classes) for Wilder because of his 'feelings' for her. Max is the medical director of the oldest public hospital in the United States. There is no reason he shouldn't have learned sign language as soon as Wilder's new-hire paperwork was presented and signed, as a way to communicate best with their new employee. Wilder has worked at New Amsterdam for over a year now, and Ben is wonderful, but he can't be with Wilder 24/7 at work. It's just...sad and it goes against everything Max Goodwin ostensibly stands for that he hasn't until now done anything concrete to make his newest hire who is a department head feel comfortable and accepted at work. 

Even last week when he asked her out on a 'date,' they are still typing to each other on their phones and computers to have a full-fledged conversation.

Well, there kind of was a good reason - he didn't work there anymore.  Wilder was hired to replace Helen, when both Helen and Max left the hospital.  He didn't know he'd be coming back and working with Wilder.

[meeeechiganman]

Ryan has chosen his next project

https://deadline.com/2022/11/ryan-eggold-isaiah-mustafa-cast-amazon-alex-cross-series-1235183635/

[Granny58]

On 11/22/2022 at 11:10 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Why is Floyd deciding if a pregnant woman should have labor induced, doing ultrasounds, counseling her, etc.? Is this like ER where there is never an OB in the hospital? And he can decide to place psych holds?

Thank you!  Exactly what I said.  No way the head of Cardiology should be involved in this storyline.  It's nonsense. 

On 11/22/2022 at 11:10 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

Lauren and her sister. Who cares? 

Not me. 

[LexieLily]

Not that it matters much in the grand scheme of everything the show has messed up timeline and fact-wise, but I could've sworn Iggy and Martin had four kids when they spent the summer RVing after Chance broke into their house. Now they have three?

[CarpeFelis]

On 11/26/2022 at 12:23 AM, CoyoteBlue said:

Yeah, the first thing I thought when Little Junkie Sister inherited everything was "This bitch gonna binge HARD and probably OD. Better not let Bloom treat her when it happens or the cops might assume she botches it for the money."

I was thinking the same thing! Not to mention, as family Lauren isn’t even supposed to be treating her.

ETA: So Martin thinks it’s time to get the divorce, yet he stayed overnight and allowed the kids to see him and think he and Iggy were back together. I can see Iggy doing something that dumb, but it seems out of character for Martin.

Edited December 1, 2022 by CarpeFelis

[Ducky]

On 11/25/2022 at 12:57 AM, bros402 said:

I wonder if that is an actaul deaf/hard of hearing actress? If so, that is great for them to have more representation on the show!

Coming way late to this (life and all lol but figure I'd comment anyway.  Yes the actress that played Wilder is deaf...oooh didn't realize she made her mark in the Deaf West's production of Spring Awakening;  Marlee Matlin (she was the doctor trying to convince Wilder to go for the Deaf School of Medicine job).  On that note even though that school doesn't exist....yet- I hope it does some day- Can almost see either NTID or Gallaudet U adding that on lol.

On 11/24/2022 at 6:40 AM, circumvent said:

Besides, I have seen too much ableism coming from the Deaf community towards other disabled people. Many Deaf people don't consider themselves disabled and treat intellectually disabled people - and autistics or other developmentally disabled people - as lesser humans.

Sadly yes this is true.  I grew up oral and went to Gallaudet (with a 6 week-ish crash course in ASL provided by Gallaudet the summer before freshman year).  Many Deaf  people also have treated the DeafBlind community badly (and still do to some extent); never really ran across seeing intellectually disabled people being discriminated again(tho I am positive it happens) but I can see autistic people being discriminated against by d/Deaf people.  Honestly pretty much any group of people who are different including LGBT are 'less than' or 'sinning' (the LGBT one) in the eyes of some d/Deaf folks.  I have hope that things are better now than in the 80s but currently racism is a hot button as it is with the rest of the US...

[bros402]

9 hours ago, Ducky said:

Coming way late to this (life and all lol but figure I'd comment anyway.  Yes the actress that played Wilder is deaf...oooh didn't realize she made her mark in the Deaf West's production of Spring Awakening;  Marlee Matlin (she was the doctor trying to convince Wilder to go for the Deaf School of Medicine job).  On that note even though that school doesn't exist....yet- I hope it does some day- Can almost see either NTID or Gallaudet U adding that on lol.

Sadly yes this is true.  I grew up oral and went to Gallaudet (with a 6 week-ish crash course in ASL provided by Gallaudet the summer before freshman year).  Many Deaf  people also have treated the DeafBlind community badly (and still do to some extent); never really ran across seeing intellectually disabled people being discriminated again(tho I am positive it happens) but I can see autistic people being discriminated against by d/Deaf people.  Honestly pretty much any group of people who are different including LGBT are 'less than' or 'sinning' (the LGBT one) in the eyes of some d/Deaf folks.  I have hope that things are better now than in the 80s but currently racism is a hot button as it is with the rest of the US...

I don't know who I was referring to, but I wasn't referring to Sandra Mae Frank (I first saw her on Zoey's Extraordinary Playlist, and she had a great musical number on that!).

I think I made that comment before I recognized Marlee Matlin.

Gallaudet is a cool school from the limited interaction I have had with them (Two of my ancestors were deaf and Gallaudet has archives of pretty much every major deaf publication from the 1800s-early 1900s).

[jabRI]

On 11/23/2022 at 1:47 PM, LexieLily said:

And am I wrong, or didn't they find out a couple of seasons ago that Bloom's mom had such problems with alcohol and booze because she had an undiagnosed medical condition that was causing her substantial pain?

My memory was that Iggy explained that because of her massive substance abuse, she had no actual memory of how awful she was to her daughters, and trying to confront her was pointless.  But maybe the illness with pain was another diagnosis

[jabRI]

On 11/28/2022 at 9:11 AM, FnkyChkn34 said:

it goes against everything Max Goodwin ostensibly stands for that he hasn't until now done anything concrete to make his newest hire who is a department head feel comfortable and accepted at work. 

I personally think they made a great point.  So often the hearing community just expects the deaf community to adapt and make do.  That someone as good hearted as Max did not think to automatically  learn ASL to accomodate a department head is really par for the course.   And she's right, they can't really communicate via text messages except rather superfically.

[possibilities]

Ep 9:

Best thing first: I looooooooved Wilder's speech to Max, for so many reasons.

Other things next: I know we've abandoned even the pretense of doctors having areas of practice, but Floyd taking the ob case was worse than usual even for that. It's in character for him to be trying to lock people up with no due process when he gets uncomfortable and they don't do what he wants, and for him to make somebody else's pregnancy all about him. But still!! He didn't even call Iggy for a psych consult, or an OB to do the ultrasound. I find myself seriously wishing bodily harm on him at this point, and then I want to watch someone hover over him and in a condescending voice say they'll get strangers to accompany him to his appointments or else he can just be committed against his will since his life isn't up to him, and a stranger knows best what he needs and he only exists to do what I think is right.

I hate that shows think CPS actually helps children. In a lot of cases, putting someone into the system does not help them. So Bloom is also on my shit list this week. She projected all over that family. She wanted the sister taken away from the brother because of her own issues with her own sister. I don't know how they were financially surviving all this time, but if it's true they've managed on their own for 2 years, and the current situation was not their fault at all because someone swerved into the bike lane, then how is putting that child into foster care for two months, or getting the brother counseling for 2 months, going to really help? It will just traumatize them further.

Max was probably right that the surveys were stupid if they asked only about things like decor, but inflicting chaos is not an answer. Iggy was actually right that they probably need more staff. But that would require Max to raise money, and he'd rather raise hell.

The resolution of half the day for walk ins would not solve the problem of under-staffing. The original surveys said people were waiting for months, not because they needed walk ins, but because they couldn't get an appt. So that magical fix was really stupid. Iggy telling him off was the most I've liked Iggy in a while.

I guess Iggy finally realized he made a mistake blowing up his marriage, but Martin better not take him back without some serious commitment to amends being made. At this point, Iggy is more of a child than a partner.

It drives me crazy that Wilder leapt to the conclusion that the hair medicine caused the cancer remission. It's a hypothesis worth testing, but her confidence in that idea seemed totally unearned.

Ep 10

This show always goes for the maximum pain.

Helen's in NYC and didn't call Max, so we know she really isn't worth pining over. That's not going anywhere. I say Max doesn't hesitate to take Lizzie home. I did like that he didn't try to convince her to stay. She did want to be a surgeon more than a school admin, but he did the thing they say to do (if you love them, set them free) per every Hallmark card ever. And he didn't treat her like she owed him anything, which is refreshing after Floyd and Iggy suffering from that syndrome.

Iggy seeing the rash and identifying the pellagra was unexpected. The guy with a very nice apartment being swayed by socks, which are the number 1 thing unhoused people want, was a bit ridiculous, but at least the guy could see Iggy was trying to be compassionate, which I guess is probably better than what he usually got from most people, though still pretty annoying.

The tension between separatism and integration is a thing in every minority or otherwise targeted population. There is a real and legitimate need for places you can just be with your own kind and not have to code switch or put up with micro or macro aggressions, and where your experience is normalized and your needs met without having to fight for it, so you can just flourish on your own terms. So I hope Wilder's mentor lives long enough to see the med school succeed. I thought this story was handled with a decent amount of fairness, validating both the desire for the separate school and the desire to stay in the integrated setting. Everybody validated everybody else. Good job! Real caring and respect and understanding rather than dogmatic fighting!

Mama Bloom leaving the money to Active Addict sister without any explanation just seemed gratuitous. Lauren acting as her sister's doctor was unethical, but I handwave her taking the day to sit by her side because any doctor could take a day off on emergency family leave if a loved one was in trouble. Also, kudos to the make up department for making Lauren look like she'd been shell shocked and crying all day.

Get a computer with an M, for godsake. I am currently struggling with a failing E on my laptop, but I'm not a hospital and I'm planning to get a replacement keyboard soon. He gave good advice to that intern, though, on other issues. He seemed way more sane this week than last. Maybe Iggy putting him on blast has finally humbled him.

I like seeing Max's signing improve. His "accent" is still really bad. But it's so much better than it was. It's hilarious that he didn't know how to say "I'm sorry" before, though. I mean... I take it as symbolism that he missed that basic vocabulary that people usually get right at the start.

Floyd's dad checking himself out of supervision seemed strange, and Floyd choosing a fling that was going to end soon when travel nurse leaves town seemed strange, as did them not actually hooking up yet. It's not like they couldn't afford a hotel if they were only waiting because they needed privacy.

On 11/23/2022 at 8:57 AM, Cloud9Shopper said:

I thought it was weird that Lauren didn’t seem to mourn at all whatsoever. There was one scene of her cleaning up after what looked like a funeral lunch and then she’s back at work and completely over it. 

Actually, I thought I saw her taking coverings off the mirror when they were cleaning up. To me, that meant they'd been sitting shiva, which takes a week. I didn't know they were Jewish, but that scene seemed pretty clear-- shiva is a weeklong mourning period, where you stay home, cover the mirrors, grieve. People bring you food, hence the buffet remnants everywhere. However, even if I misread that scene, we have no idea how long she was off work. This show treats time like an extremely flexible metric.

I also think that when you've spent your life with totally unstable family, you do get kind of used to compartmentalizing your family drama from the other parts of your life, and work can even be a refuge. It's usually less stressful than the chaos of family. If your family is functional, family is your refuge from work. But in a situation like the Blooms, the reverse is totally credible-- even if you work in an ER.

On 11/24/2022 at 6:40 AM, circumvent said:

I, for one, didn't like the speech Wilder gave to Max. It came out as contemptuous and full of resentment.

I didn't get contempt or resentment from that speech at all. She said she loved him. But she didn't want to be in an intimate relationship where she had to slow down her thoughts and the person couldn't understand the nuances of her communication. She didn't blame him. It's just a fact of life. It's realistic. Would you launch an intimate relationship with someone who you couldn't communicate fluently with? I guess if you would, that's your choice. But I know I wouldn't get involved that way with someone who didn't fluently speak my language. It's damn hard to learn another language fulently as an adult, so I would be sad and I wouldn't blame them. But I would not think it would be a good situation. She doesn't come across to me as angry at all. I also don't think she owes it to anyone to be in a romantic relationship with them if she doesn't want to, for any reason or no reason.

The painful condition Bloom Mamma had was endometriosis.

I guess "Lizzie" decided she didn't need Max to understand what she was saying, after all. He gets the gist and suddenly that was enough for her. Okeedokee. To each her own.

Why do TV and movies think running after someone is a good romantic trope? I mean, why not find him in his office and throw yourself at him there? Or any number of things other than "oh no, did he leave already? I may never see him again!" I mean, he wasn't even going to the airport! It didn't really create any dramatic tension. I think screenwriters just like running, maybe? I don't get it. I have never had a relationship start with someone running so they don't miss their chance. I always make sure my love interests have my contact info, so they don't have to chase after me as I go from place to place, lest we miss our chance at forever due to a scheduling snafu.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[circumvent]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

I didn't get contempt or resentment from that speech at all. She said she loved him. But she didn't want to be in an intimate relationship where she had to slow down her thoughts and the person couldn't understand the nuances of her communication. She didn't blame him. It's just a fact of life. It's realistic. Would you launch an intimate relationship with someone who you couldn't communicate fluently with? I guess if you would, that's your choice. But I know I wouldn't get involved that way with someone who didn't fluently speak my language. It's damn hard to learn another language fulently as an adult, so I would be sad and I wouldn't blame them. But I would not think it would be a good situation. She doesn't come across to me as angry at all. I also don't think she owes it to anyone to be in a romantic relationship with them if she doesn't want to, for any reason or no reason.

It's been a while since the episode but as I remember, Max was making an effort to learn sign language. The way I saw it, was that she was not giving him a chance to learn the language. I know a family with one deaf person in it, the older siblings didn't speak the language and they had to learn. The step father also had to learn. They have a good relationship now. Wilder didn't want to wait. She wanted Max to come to her ASL ready. It was unrealistic. Also unrealistic, is to act as if she lives in a world where deafness is not a disability. Many Deaf people believe that but they still want the rights of the ADA. Can eat the cake and have it too. It is also strange to say that you will choose who you love. Unless she will limit herself to only people who speak your language, which is segregationist, in a way. And again, Max was learning, he was getting to where she was, she didn't think it was enough.

[possibilities]

I think you are projecting things onto Wilder that are stereotypes and not based on how she has been portrayed on the show.

She has not done anything to distance herself from other disabled people. In fact, she used her deafness as a way to convince a patient that losing an arm would not make his life not worth living, and she compared herself to other disabled people and told him that his attitude of "better dead than disabled" offended her.

While Max is learning ASL, at the moment he is not fluent and she said that she isn't comfortable being in a romantic relationship with someone who she didn't feel relaxed communicating with, because he still didn't understand what she was saying when she was saying anything complicated or emotionally nuanced. She didn't want to have to slow down and explain herself a lot or struggle to be understood. I don't see why that's wrong for her to feel or say. She has a right to choose her partners based on what makes her feel comfortable and understood. She didn't criticize him, she explained herself. In all their conversations, she at this time needs to slow down and use limited vocabulary. They can't converse easily and deeply and unself-consciously, and she didn't feel like that would work for her in an intimate situation.

She later said he should not learn ASL just for her. To me, that says she doesn't want to be a token, which honestly she is with him-- he's not interested in ASL other than to get closer to her personally. So she said she didn't think it would work. To me, this says that she's been burned before and is anxious about people who go on crusades and think they are do-gooders but don't really understand what they are doing. I think that is very realistic for her to be worried about something like that, especially with Max!

I don't think hearing people should tell deaf, or Deaf, people how to identify or who to date, any more than I think other dominant group members should tell minorities or targeted groups how to handle their situations. It's condescending. And in my experience, not all deaf or Deaf will handle their status in the same way-- I don't even think they should tell each other how to handle this-- that's up to each person to decide. I thought Floyd had the right to decide he wants a Black partner, and I think Deaf people who only want to marry other Deaf people have that right. For us to tell other people what is realistic for them is the essence of ableism, for that matter. So I guess I disagree with you about Wilder's behavior being as you describe it, but I also think that we disagree on the broader principles here.

Edited March 11, 2023 by possibilities
fix typos

[circumvent]

I didn't say Wilder was being ableist, I said that a lot of Deaf people are. 

Max wasn't fluent at that moment but maybe he would be. If she said she loves him - I don't remember if she does - than why not give him some time to be more fluent? I don't get the "I love you but I will not give you time to get to my level of comfort". If she doesn't love him, fine, the speech is valid. I think the speech was delivered to the wrong person, though. I mean, it is a little of self-sabotage to be in love with someone who is invested in getting closer to you because you don't have the patience with that person's learning curve - after just a short period, so not really a curve yet. But if making a point is more important to her than trying to work on the relationship, that's her choice. I see it as foolish

Like I said, the speech was delivered to the wrong person. I am willing to make a small bet that this was something that the actor pushed for, a message within the show as a form of activism, and the writers worked it into the plot. I think those actions are valid AND I think it wasn't well done in the context of that storyline. 

As for the fact that they didn't end up together, I think it was the best ending for the show. I have a peeve with shows that have to pair people up, especially the lead characters.

[Bobcatkitten]

I watched these episodes on Netflix and all the scenes between Max and Elizabeth and Elizabeth and the other doctor had no captioning and I had no idea what was going on. 

[Markf72]

How are we supposed to follow what they are saying when there is not someone speaking/translating or without sub titles whey they are using ASL? This makes it hard to follow sory line.

[Kristi800]

Quote

reynolds dad where did you even get all of that stuff? reynolds seems like he would live in a building where there is a guy to do all of that stuff and not take weeks to respond because he is rich

Most likely, but his dad probably wanted to feel like he was doing something to do during his time there. 

Same thought about Reynolds giving advice Olivette. Not just that he isn't an OB, but the previous episode he was schooled by Lauren about abortion and the right to choose whatever/whenever. I like that Gabrielle walked away (but ultimately came back). Where are the OBs & Iggy? 

[bros402]

There are subtitles for the ASL.