S05.E08: Gunpowder

[LadyIrony]

On 11/11/2022 at 4:14 AM, Helena Dax said:

Poor William, can't imagine how uncomfortable he was about the whole situation.

I wonder if Diana really realized that the BRF weren't working against her. Charles's behaviour was insensitive, but I doubt the others despised her as much as she believed. I know she was friends with Sarah Ferguson, but what about Andrew and Edward? She was closer in age to them.  Also, the show is portraying her as totally isolated, but didn't she have lots of friends like Elton John and Versace?

Loved Elizabeth, William and the QM dealing with the new TV. The QM seems to be a huge soap opera fan!!

 I think Diana had emotional issues and due to that her perception of things were very warped. Maybe because she was an outsider to the Royals or younger and prettier she had the media and people around her little finger. But I don't think the Royals were stupid enough to think that being at logger heads with her was a good thing for anyone. 

Even last season Philip was telling her how it worked and what it was all about. He even told her she could have her fun but when she was with Charles they had to put on the show. Given the privilege's these people have I really don't think it is such a bad deal. 

If the Royals want to sign me up, I'm willing to play along and I will keep my mouth shut! 

The Queen moaning about the QE2 and not wanting to spend her own money to keep it was cringeworthy. 

Edited November 19, 2022 by LadyIrony

[jeansheridan]

On 11/15/2022 at 5:11 PM, 3 is enough said:

I really didn’t need to see “Dukey” getting ready for bed.  They could have had the same scene with him wearing pajamas. 

I liked it for a few reasons. He lost his leg in service to his country so when he goes on about Great Britain we know it isn't thoughtless patriotism.  I also think it's good to see old and less than perfect bodies on TV. He's not handsome but he's in the world and contributing.  Progress is important but you don't have to toss out everything. 

My favorite bits of this ep was seeing the director of the BBC agonize over airing it. I am sure lawyers were involved too. I am credulous they could film secretly. I would have enjoyed seeing the Royal Family's PR team working how to spin it too. 

Weirdly I remember this interview because it was one of the first times I heard her voice. This was pre-You Tube of course so no clips of her speaking. She was just pictures from People Magazine. And I remember disliking her voice so much. She sounded weak. And maybe she was. I don't recall feeling sympathetic towards her after.

[jnymph]

Is this “The Crown” or “Diana broods?”

[andromeda331]

On 11/19/2022 at 9:54 AM, Magnumfangirl said:

Di liked to play the victim, but I wonder if an acknowledgement from the Queen that Charles had wronged her might have gone a long way to improve relations between Di, the royals, and the firm.  

This makes me think of how the royal family dealt with Margaret's marriage in season three. They all knew Tony was treating Margaret like crap and cheating on her. But no one cared until Margaret had an affair and they were more upset about her affair then his. At Margaret's birthday dinner when all she wanted was some sympathy and instead everyone praised Tony. Especially her mother. They all know Charles treats her like crap and has Camille but no one actually acknowledges or gives her any sympathy. 

Edited November 21, 2022 by andromeda331

[truthful]

Thinking about it, my favourite scene of this series is in this episode. It's not the interview itself, though that's powerful too. Rather it's the scene where Diana visits the Queen to tell her about the interview. With Diana, thinking that by giving this interview she's is freeing herself from the shackles of monarchy when she's still stuck inside the cage, being deferential but firm with the Monarch, and the Queen herself beside herself with outrage at what she sees as this unforgivable betrayal to a system she has spent nearly her entire life upholding to probably untold emotional and mental cost to those closest to her. To me it encapsulates what this season is all about: how they are all blind to their own failings.

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

This makes me think of how the royal family dealt with Margaret's marriage in season three. They all knew Tony was treating Margaret like crap and cheating on her. But no one cared until Margaret had an affair and they were more upset about her affair then his. At Margaret's birthday dinner when all she wanted was some sympathy and instead everyone praised Tony. Especially her mother. They all know Charles treats her like crap and has Camille but no one actually acknowledges or gives her any sympathy. 

Tony's affair was secret, but Margaret's affair was published (although it wasn't her fault but the paparazzi's, and she should have been privacy in the remote island). There were of course different moral standards for a woman and man, but also for a princess and a photographer although he had been made an Earl.

Tony was well liked by the royal family because he behaved well towards *them* whereas Margaret who had been her father's favorite had become all the more a person who wasn't nice to be with.

However, I can understand Margaret's reaction because one's usually expects sympathy from one's own family, especially parents, even if one has acted *more* wrongly than one's spouse and is hurt if they sided with him/her.

In the show we have seen that Charles's behavior is *not* accepted by his parents but he is called a priviledged whiner and he is urged to make his marriage work. But Elizabeth was a mother - if she had sided with Diana, she would have been like Queen Mum who sided with Tony. Plus, it wasm't a good idea from Diana to disturb the Queen on Christmas in S4. On the other hand, Philip *has* twice shown sympathy to her.

It would have been more natural for Diana seek sympathy from her own family. In the show they are completely absent after she married. 

[truthful]

I think the issue with Diana was that she was a romantic at heart who still believed in the Disney Prince and Princess type of rubbish. When her naive idealism started to crack after coming up against the rigid practicality of the system it caused ruptures in the Monarchy with the book and the interview.

I thought the revenge dress was about when she wore it, which was the same night they aired a documentary about Charles.

[chediavolo]

On 11/15/2022 at 6:14 PM, BusyOctober said:

It’s more of a celebration that the treasonous plot was discovered, before any harm was done to the Protestant Members of Parliament or the King. The Catholic terrorists, including Guy Fawkes, were captured, tortured and killed. 

What a f***ing terrible thing to celebrate. I always thought this was sick. Such joy at  such a horrific event. Then again the whole royal family thing is otherworldly. 

[chediavolo]

Did anyone else cringe at the song that was performed for the queens anniversary affair? WTF? Was that real? A song about a one night stand? I seem to remember a lyric about a pounding or something similar? 😳

[LadyIrony]

6 hours ago, chediavolo said:

Did anyone else cringe at the song that was performed for the queens anniversary affair? WTF? Was that real? A song about a one night stand? I seem to remember a lyric about a pounding or something similar? 😳

I can’t recall what was the song? 

[chediavolo]

1 hour ago, LadyIrony said:

I can’t recall what was the song? 

1 hour ago, LadyIrony said:

I can’t recall what was the song? 

One night only. Not many lyrics from what I looked up just keeps repeating the same thing but the gist of it is it’s a one night stand.

[rur]

I'd chalk it up to someone not listening to all of the lyrics before deciding to include it in the show. It's kind of like when the 2011 Emmys had 4 guys singing Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" for the In Memoriam segment. It's a beautiful song, but some of the lyrics were definitely inappropriate for a tribute to people who had passed away. 

[sistermagpie]

3 hours ago, chediavolo said:

One night only. Not many lyrics from what I looked up just keeps repeating the same thing but the gist of it is it’s a one night stand.

One night Only from the show Dreamgirls?

[LadyIrony]

4 hours ago, chediavolo said:

One night only. Not many lyrics from what I looked up just keeps repeating the same thing but the gist of it is it’s a one night stand.

Ah yes I remember now. I did think it was a big odd. Even if you wanted to make it about a one night only show or gig it still doesn’t really fit the scene. 

3 hours ago, rur said:

I'd chalk it up to someone not listening to all of the lyrics before deciding to include it in the show. It's kind of like when the 2011 Emmys had 4 guys singing Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" for the In Memoriam segment. It's a beautiful song, but some of the lyrics were definitely inappropriate for a tribute to people who had passed away. 

Happens a lot. I saw a news story on troops returning from the Middle East and the ship had Neil Young’s “Keep on Eockin’ in the Free World” blasting. The chorus and some of the lyrics kind of fit but there are other lines where it’s not clear if he being patriotic or critical. 

[chediavolo]

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

One night Only from the show Dreamgirls?

Yes

[sistermagpie]

12 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

Ah yes I remember now. I did think it was a big odd. Even if you wanted to make it about a one night only show or gig it still doesn’t really fit the scene. 

Maybe the idea was just that while that's a standard song that might have been sung at that variety show, it was also referring to Diana's interview being that one important night and this being the last night the queen wouldn't be hearing about it? Did someone sing that same song in an earlier season when Charles and Diana were watching it? Maybe the same night when Diana did Uptown Girl? It seems like that song was pretty popular for Broadway-type things back then.

[Pallas]

Robson & Jerome -- Jerome Flynn (Bron on Games of Thrones) and Robson Green (everyone in everything) -- performed that night.

[BradandJanet]

7 hours ago, Pallas said:

Robson & Jerome -- Jerome Flynn (Bron on Games of Thrones) and Robson Green (everyone in everything) -- performed that night.

They had a big hit with Unchained Melody in 1995. Michael Flatley and Jean Butler in Riverdance were also hugely popular, and they're on the program. The Queen got an evening of top talent, but the biggest show was going on elsewhere. 

[Camera One]

From an entertainment perspective, I think they did a good job of building tension around a television interview and making it quite dramatic.  This episode and the last one felt like a two-parter.  

I was still able to sympathesize with everyone in this episode, so I don't think it was egregiously in any character's favour.  I was surprised they gave so much time to William.  Again, I'm not sure if any of it is true, but I liked his scenes with the Queen and his phone calls with Diana.  They did a good job of showing the potential impact on him.  The whole Guy Fawkes = treason school lesson wasn't subtle, LOL.

With Diana, they clearly showed Bashir once again lying to her and playing on her paranoia.  It seemed like she genuinely felt what she felt and she was so deep in her mental state that she couldn't see that this interview would not free her or make her feel better.  They could easily have made the Queen a total monster in that confrontation with Diana, but it was a nicely written scene where you could see how they could not understand each other at all.  

[stonehaven]

As a media junkie, I did find the BBC debate interesting. It's in those moments when you decide what you truly want to represent to the world. I did find it interesting that the BBC truly believed in the higher authority it had given how things would eventually go with other figures.

Overall, the episode was good but I am with others and finding this season lacking a bit and I am not sure what. I was never on the adoring Diana train so the "all Diana" focus seems a bit too much as if The Crown has turned into her life story. Between Charles wanting to air out his laundry and Diana doing the Bashir interview, it seems that everyone wants to talk things out but not with the right people. I'm with quite a few posters that think the kids were hurt most by all the Chuck and Di drama.

[Clanstarling]

On 11/16/2022 at 7:24 AM, PeterPirate said:

Quite unbalanced of the show to portray William's reaction to his mother's interview, but not to his father's interview or the publication of the Camilla tape.  Who knows, maybe they intend to have him grow up to be like his father. 

I'm not sure William lived a particularly balanced life as a child. Diana was a very hands on mother, whereas Charles' parenting style came more from his parents. I've always had the impression that both boys were closer with Di than Charles (not that they didn't love them both).  It would have been awful for both William and Harry to be around all that discord and pain - just like any other "normal" child in an emotionally volatile situation.

[PeterPirate]

4 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

On 11/16/2022 at 7:24 AM, PeterPirate said:

Quite unbalanced of the show to portray William's reaction to his mother's interview, but not to his father's interview or the publication of the Camilla tape.  Who knows, maybe they intend to have him grow up to be like his father. 

I'm not sure William lived a particularly balanced life as a child. Diana was a very hands on mother, whereas Charles' parenting style came more from his parents. I've always had the impression that both boys were closer with Di than Charles (not that they didn't love them both).  It would have been awful for both William and Harry to be around all that discord and pain - just like any other "normal" child in an emotionally volatile situation.

Just to clarify, I think the show is unbalanced in portraying Williams' reaction to his mother's interview, but not his reaction to his father's interview, or to Tampongate. 

I chalk this up to Morgan's decision to dis-empower Diana this season.  The Bashir interview aired in November of 1995, and by this time Diana had had a couple or three extramarital flings of her own.  Yet the show hasn't shown any of these (this season, if not last season as well), because to do so would be to portray Diana has having agency of her own.  

[truthful]

3 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

Just to clarify, I think the show is unbalanced in portraying Williams' reaction to his mother's interview, but not his reaction to his father's interview, or to Tampongate. 

I chalk this up to Morgan's decision to dis-empower Diana this season.  The Bashir interview aired in November of 1995, and by this time Diana had had a couple or three extramarital flings of her own.  Yet the show hasn't shown any of these (this season, if not last season as well), because to do so would be to portray Diana has having agency of her own.  

Has Diana ever not been disempowered during her time on the show? For me, Diana's storyline this season, and I don't know if Peter Morgan meant this, is about how she thinks she has agency but really she has no agency at all. It's a sad and depressing arc.

Edited November 28, 2022 by truthful

[Blakeston]

On 11/11/2022 at 12:23 AM, Adgirl said:

Watching this show has made me wonder why Margaret didn't take Diana under her wing. She could've been the mother figure Diana craved and schooled her on how to make the type of marriage Charles and Camilla planned for her work.

I have no doubt that Margaret was deeply jealous of Diana. The show has been extraordinarily kind to Margaret, but she was a downright cruel person.

[PeterPirate]

2 hours ago, truthful said:

6 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

I chalk this up to Morgan's decision to dis-empower Diana this season.  

Has Diana ever not been disempowered during her time on the show? 

Just to clarify, I used "this season" in my previous post because I didn't pay too much attention to the Charles and Diana story in season 4.  

3 hours ago, truthful said:

6 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

The Bashir interview aired in November of 1995, and by this time Diana had had a couple or three extramarital flings of her own.  Yet the show hasn't shown any of these (this season, if not last season as well), because to do so would be to portray Diana has having agency of her own.  

For me, Diana's storyline this season, and I don't know if Peter Morgan meant this, is about how she thinks she has agency but really she has no agency at all. It's a sad and depressing arc.

Just to clarify, when I use the word "agency", I am talking about Diana's ability to make her own choices.  The show has portrayed Diana as being manipulated and coerced into doing the Bashir interview instead of having her make that decision on her own.  

[truthful]

37 minutes ago, PeterPirate said:

Just to clarify, I used "this season" in my previous post because I didn't pay too much attention to the Charles and Diana story in season 4.  

Just to clarify, when I use the word "agency", I am talking about Diana's ability to make her own choices.  The show has portrayed Diana as being manipulated and coerced into doing the Bashir interview instead of having her make that decision on her own.  

Well she was manipulated into doing the Bashir interview though. That was the reality of it. They played on her paranoia so they could get one of the biggest news interviews ever. That wasn't Peter Morgan trying to write drama just for the show.

[PeterPirate]

31 minutes ago, truthful said:

Well she was manipulated into doing the Bashir interview though. That was the reality of it. They played on her paranoia so they could get one of the biggest news interviews ever. That wasn't Peter Morgan trying to write drama just for the show.

That is certainly how Peter Morgan decided to portray matters.  Whether the show has depicted the reality of it is for the History threads.  

Edited November 28, 2022 by PeterPirate

[truthful]

4 hours ago, Blakeston said:

I have no doubt that Margaret was deeply jealous of Diana. The show has been extraordinarily kind to Margaret, but she was a downright cruel person.

It's amazing how the charm of Vanessa Kirby was able to put Margaret in a better light than she probably truly deserved. 

[Roseanna]

20 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

and by this time Diana had had a couple or three extramarital flings of her own.  Yet the show hasn't shown any of these (this season, if not last season as well), because to do so would be to portray Diana has having agency of her own.  

We have seen her make a pass on Dr Khan which evidently led to an affair.

In the 4th season we saw Hewitt (and Anne hinted that there were more men) and the Queen said to her daughter-in-law that she had broken her vows and she didn't deny it.

[PeterPirate]

1 hour ago, Roseanna said:

We have seen her make a pass on Dr Khan which evidently led to an affair.

In the 4th season we saw Hewitt (and Anne hinted that there were more men) and the Queen said to her daughter-in-law that she had broken her vows and she didn't deny it.

For that matter, in the show Diana tells Khan that she has been out on dates before in her wig.  

But at the same time, by the time of this episode, Diana had made a trip to Pakistan to meet his family.  And passing references are not the same thing as depicting what happened.  

So on balance I still have my own opinion about how Diana has been portrayed by this show.  As always, mileage varies.  

[Ohiopirate02]

On 11/19/2022 at 5:09 PM, LadyIrony said:

Even last season Philip was telling her how it worked and what it was all about. He even told her she could have her fun but when she was with Charles they had to put on the show. Given the privilege's these people have I really don't think it is such a bad deal. 

And this was unsustainable because Charles was unwilling to do his part.  We saw how Charles made their second honeymoon all about him and got pissy when Diana wanted one afternoon where she got what she wanted.  Charles can't even hide his irritation with Diana at Eton when there's a bank of photographers in the room.  Diana can only do so much when Charles is being his petulant, entitled self.

[LadyIrony]

4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

And this was unsustainable because Charles was unwilling to do his part.  We saw how Charles made their second honeymoon all about him and got pissy when Diana wanted one afternoon where she got what she wanted.  Charles can't even hide his irritation with Diana at Eton when there's a bank of photographers in the room.  Diana can only do so much when Charles is being his petulant, entitled self.

She could have played him better. The situation on the boat where they were discussing what to do and where to go etc. That should have been a private discussion. Yes Chuck is a dick but she could have gotten what she wanted if she at least kept it private. She would have done well to keep Prince Philip on side as well. 

I'm also guessing Diana could test the patience of a Saint so perhaps Chuck just had enough of her at that point? 

[Ohiopirate02]

7 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

She could have played him better. The situation on the boat where they were discussing what to do and where to go etc. That should have been a private discussion. Yes Chuck is a dick but she could have gotten what she wanted if she at least kept it private. She would have done well to keep Prince Philip on side as well. 

I'm also guessing Diana could test the patience of a Saint so perhaps Chuck just had enough of her at that point? 

By the time of that vacation, Diana's days of sweet talking Charles in private to get what she wants were long past (not that she ever really had a time when this could happen).  Her only play was to bring it up at dinner surrounded by other adults and hope one of Charles's friends agreed.  That none of them did is unsurprising since Charles surrounded himself with yes men and women.  He set the situation up where Diana was the outsider and always at a disadvantage.  

Also, if Charles is being a dick, then it's on him to change his behavior.  

[LadyIrony]

3 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

By the time of that vacation, Diana's days of sweet talking Charles in private to get what she wants were long past (not that she ever really had a time when this could happen).  Her only play was to bring it up at dinner surrounded by other adults and hope one of Charles's friends agreed.  That none of them did is unsurprising since Charles surrounded himself with yes men and women.  He set the situation up where Diana was the outsider and always at a disadvantage.  

Also, if Charles is being a dick, then it's on him to change his behavior.  

Again, Diana did her fair share of game playing and cheating. She was hardly an innocent. The sensible thing would have been to hold a private discussion and sort it out rather than put her husband on the spot. Keeping her father in law on side would also have helped her.

She wanted it all her own way and she got  it.

[sistermagpie]

2 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

Again, Diana did her fair share of game playing and cheating. She was hardly an innocent. The sensible thing would have been to hold a private discussion and sort it out rather than put her husband on the spot. Keeping her father in law on side would also have helped her.

She wanted it all her own way and she got  it.

Maybe I'm forgetting this scene, but wasn't Charles planning the whole vacation all his own way and Diana was just saying they also would go shopping? Seems like it was perfectly reasonable to do that in front of everyone else.

[dubbel zout]

The boys, too—Diana mentioned "water sports." Charles was like, oh, right, I have children who might want to do something other than tramp around museums and ancient historical sites. LOL.

[blackwing]

On 11/15/2022 at 5:11 PM, 3 is enough said:

I really didn’t need to see “Dukey” getting ready for bed.  They could have had the same scene with him wearing pajamas. 

I thought it was a metaphor for the events of the episode.  He was stripped bare, in all of his unsightly glory.  It was ugly, just like the interview Diana was about to give. 
 

On 11/24/2022 at 9:41 AM, chediavolo said:

Did anyone else cringe at the song that was performed for the queens anniversary affair? WTF? Was that real? A song about a one night stand? I seem to remember a lyric about a pounding or something similar? 😳

“One Night Only” from “Dreamgirls”.  I thought the use of the song was entirely appropriate.  I’m not necessarily sure the song is about a one night stand… it’s about a guy who wants to have his cake and eat it too.  He wants this woman but he isn’t doesn’t have the ability to commit to her.  So they have one last fling.  “You want all my love and my devotion.  You want my loving soul right on the line.  I have no doubt I could love you forever.  The only trouble is, you really don’t have the time.”

I also view this as a song of desperation.  In the show/movie, Effie White records this song as her last chance.  And then it gets tossed in the trash when Deena Jones records her own version.  

I feel like this song was appropriate to show Diana’s desperation and relationship with the royal family.  She wanted to give her love and devotion, but as the Queen said, they were busy and didn’t have the time. 

On 11/27/2022 at 9:11 PM, truthful said:

Has Diana ever not been disempowered during her time on the show? For me, Diana's storyline this season, and I don't know if Peter Morgan meant this, is about how she thinks she has agency but really she has no agency at all. It's a sad and depressing arc.

Agreed.  I always sympathised with her because it was clear she got into something she didn’t expect, she was in way over her head, and nobody supported her.  By giving this interview she thought she could get people on her side but at this point, the battle was lost long ago.  

Edited November 30, 2022 by blackwing

[chediavolo]

5 hours ago, blackwing said:

I thought it was a metaphor for the events of the episode.  He was stripped bare, in all of his unsightly glory.  It was ugly, just like the interview Diana was about to give. 
 

“One Night Only” from “Dreamgirls”.  I thought the use of the song was entirely appropriate.  I’m not necessarily sure the song is about a one night stand… it’s about a guy who wants to have his cake and eat it too.  He wants this woman but he isn’t doesn’t have the ability to commit to her.  So they have one last fling.  “You want all my love and my devotion.  You want my loving soul right on the line.  I have no doubt I could love you forever.  The only trouble is, you really don’t have the time.”

I also view this as a song of desperation.  In the show/movie, Effie White records this song as her last chance.  And then it gets tossed in the trash when Deena Jones records her own version.  

I feel like this song was appropriate to show Diana’s desperation and relationship with the royal family.  She wanted to give her love and devotion, but as the Queen said, they were busy and didn’t have the time. 

Agreed.  I always sympathised with her because it was clear she got into something she didn’t expect, she was in way over her head, and nobody supported her.  By giving this interview she thought she could get people on her side but at this point, the battle was lost long ago.  

I don’t know. The lyrics ( limited And simple as they are, this was a hit? !) seem to clearly state it’s about a one night stand. If this was really sung at the time , I stand by my cringe statement. 
I am also on the side of Diana was not completely innocent & has been portrayed as this lovely little angel who was manipulated and abused by the royals.  Don’t believe it for a second.  She needed a better therapist for sure. 

[blackwing]

3 hours ago, chediavolo said:

I don’t know. The lyrics ( limited And simple as they are, this was a hit? !) seem to clearly state it’s about a one night stand. If this was really sung at the time , I stand by my cringe statement. 
I am also on the side of Diana was not completely innocent & has been portrayed as this lovely little angel who was manipulated and abused by the royals.  Don’t believe it for a second.  She needed a better therapist for sure. 

It was a song from a musical that was popular in the early 80s.  It doesn't seem like the show made its way until the West End until much later, so I tend to doubt that this song was actually performed at this Queen's birthday concert in the mid 90s.  At that point in time, the musical doesn't seem like it would have been popular enough to warrant being included in this concert.  The movie with Beyonce and Jennifer Hudson really did a lot to increase its popularity.

I still think it's a metaphor for Diana's situation.  I think the man is not looking for a one night stand.  The woman is very clearly saying to him that he wants all of her love and devotion, but isn't willing to give her his time.  Maybe he's married and she's his fling on the side.  If he was just looking for a one night stand, he wouldn't be wanting all of her devotion.  She's tired of it, so she's willing to have one more night with him and then be done with it. 

She desperately wanted more, but she sees that it will never work, and she sees that the end is in sight ("we only have till dawn").  I think that's what Diana was doing.  She recognised that it wasn't working, she was going to give this interview for one night only, and come to terms that it is over.  Charles wanted her love and devotion and wanted her to be his perfect wife for appearances, but didn't want to spend any time with her, all of his time was reserved for Camilla.  So this interview was her last night and her last call for attention, and then she'd resign herself to the fact that they were done.

Interestingly, at least in the movie version (not sure if the musical version is the same as the movie version), in the Effie White / Jennifer Hudson slow version of the song that was sung on this episode, she says "you really don't have the time".  While the Deena Jones / Beyonce disco version has her singing "I really don't have the time".  I do agree that the Deena Jones version is more about the woman taking charge of the situation.  Instead of her telling the man that he doesn't have the time, she is now saying she doesn't have the time but is willing to give him one night only.  This does indeed make it seem more like a one night stand.

I have to believe that there was a reason why Peter Morgan included the slow version of this song, and also in the episode, the Queen is telling Diana that the royal family were all too busy and didn't have the time to hold her hand and address her concerns and make her feel better.   Otherwise, why include this song from this musical which wouldn't have been seen in London until years after the movie was a huge hit?  But I dunno, maybe I am way overthinking it.

Edited November 30, 2022 by blackwing

[truthful]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

It was a song from a musical that was popular in the early 80s.  It doesn't seem like the show made its way until the West End until much later, so I tend to doubt that this song was actually performed at this Queen's birthday concert in the mid 90s.  At that point in time, the musical doesn't seem like it would have been popular enough to warrant being included in this concert.  The movie with Beyonce and Jennifer Hudson really did a lot to increase its popularity.

I still think it's a metaphor for Diana's situation.  I think the man is not looking for a one night stand.  The woman is very clearly saying to him that he wants all of her love and devotion, but isn't willing to give her his time.  Maybe he's married and she's his fling on the side.  If he was just looking for a one night stand, he wouldn't be wanting all of her devotion.  She's tired of it, so she's willing to have one more night with him and then be done with it. 

She desperately wanted more, but she sees that it will never work, and she sees that the end is in sight ("we only have till dawn").  I think that's what Diana was doing.  She recognised that it wasn't working, she was going to give this interview for one night only, and come to terms that it is over.  Charles wanted her love and devotion and wanted her to be his perfect wife for appearances, but didn't want to spend any time with her, all of his time was reserved for Camilla.  So this interview was her last night and her last call for attention, and then she'd resign herself to the fact that they were done.

Interestingly, at least in the movie version (not sure if the musical version is the same as the movie version), in the Effie White / Jennifer Hudson slow version of the song that was sung on this episode, she says "you really don't have the time".  While the Deena Jones / Beyonce disco version has her singing "I really don't have the time".  I do agree that the Deena Jones version is more about the woman taking charge of the situation.  Instead of her telling the man that he doesn't have the time, she is now saying she doesn't have the time but is willing to give him one night only.  This does indeed make it seem more like a one night stand.

I have to believe that there was a reason why Peter Morgan included the slow version of this song, and also in the episode, the Queen is telling Diana that the royal family were all too busy and didn't have the time to hold her hand and address her concerns and make her feel better.   Otherwise, why include this song from this musical which wouldn't have been seen in London until years after the movie was a huge hit?  But I dunno, maybe I am way overthinking it.

It's so bizarre, whilst Carol Kenyon did perform on that night in front of the Queen, there is no proof anywhere that I could find that she performed the "For one night only" song. Even though she was known for singing that song before. But she sang other songs too in her career so unless I can see or hear irrefutable proof that she sang that song from Dreamgirls I will keep my mind open on the matter. 

What makes it annoying though is that finding out what song she sang on that night should be an easy thing for the internet to find out for me. It should be dead simple. I shouldn't have to put effort for such a simple question. Clearly though this query about the mysterious song is too much for the internet to handle.

[Lorna Mae]

On 11/24/2022 at 6:30 AM, chediavolo said:

What a f***ing terrible thing to celebrate. I always thought this was sick. Such joy at  such a horrific event. Then again the whole royal family thing is otherworldly. 

What’s being celebrated is that the Gunpowder Plot did not come off. Somebody blabbed, and IIRC, Fawkes was caught black-handed before he could light the fuse. The purpose of the bonfire is to burn him in effigy.

[Macbeth1966]

On 11/16/2022 at 9:24 AM, PeterPirate said:

I'm surprised they didn't title this episode Vendetta.    

The reference to Rupert Murdoch was a nice touch.  As was the shot of Guy Fawkes being burned in effigy.  

Dukey lost a leg in war, I guess it was not inappropriate to show that.   

Quite unbalanced of the show to portray William's reaction to his mother's interview, but not to his father's interview or the publication of the Camilla tape.  Who knows, maybe they intend to have him grow up to be like his father. 

I agree as the Tampon phone conversation is a 1000 times worse.  Especially when you are a teenage boy.

And I am happy she did the interview.  Bashir was completely unethical, so I wish it was with Oprah Winfrey or another interviewer.  Charles did an interview.  She did an interview. The Morton book was not enough.  The public needed to hear from her directly.

The problem with getting an actress to play Diana is that Diana had so much charisma - that's very hard for an individual actress to capture unless she has loads of it herself.

[J-Man]

I certainly never expected to see Beavis & Butthead or Richard Simmons in an episode of "The Crown."

[CeeBeeGee]

On 11/11/2022 at 12:06 PM, Spartan Girl said:

My feelings exactly. Yes, in hindsight it was a dumb thing to do, but Charles can miss me with his hypocritical outrage after he was the first to air out his slanted version of the truth. Would have been better for her to keep her mouth shut and let him and his PR team steamroll over her?

BAM. 

 

On 11/11/2022 at 10:17 PM, peridot said:

I really hate that Bashir kept gaslighting Diana once she tried to confront him.  It was really low to try and turn her against her brother.

He's awful. I'm glad his reputation has been absolutely trashed but it should've happened sooner.

 

On 11/12/2022 at 7:50 AM, Joana said:

You know, in this show's universe, the way the characters are presented, it would have made absolute sense for them to be friends (I mean, even the Queen thinks they're close!), but since it decidedly did not happen IRL (apparently Margaret really disliked her for some reason), I guess it would have been a step too far to portray them as close. 

Because Diana had supplanted Margaret as the star. I like Margaret but she did not like to share the spotlight, or face the fact that a younger, prettier princess was now the star.

 

On 11/14/2022 at 9:44 AM, pasdetrois said:

I binged a few episodes last night, so I don't know if this comment belongs here but: while the family was eating and chatting, there came a singular plaintive Corgi whine. The dogs were in the corner, ever alert to the possibility of a treat. LOVE.

WHO'S A GOOD DOGGIE

 

On 11/21/2022 at 2:37 AM, andromeda331 said:

This makes me think of how the royal family dealt with Margaret's marriage in season three. They all knew Tony was treating Margaret like crap and cheating on her. But no one cared until Margaret had an affair and they were more upset about her affair then his. At Margaret's birthday dinner when all she wanted was some sympathy and instead everyone praised Tony. Especially her mother. They all know Charles treats her like crap and has Camille but no one actually acknowledges or gives her any sympathy. 

Margaret's family siding with an abusive, cruel, anti-Semitic POS over her was disgusting. Even as a kid, when I saw Tony's credit on all the photos of Diana and Charles's wedding, that seemed really messed up to me. To my mother I asked "Wait--didn't they divorce under really bad terms? Why is he now shooting this really big wedding?"

 

On 11/24/2022 at 10:41 AM, chediavolo said:

Did anyone else cringe at the song that was performed for the queens anniversary affair?

Yes. The whole thing (song and choreography) was tacky (although the performers were talented).

[andromeda331]

It still bothers me that they have William tell his mother that he didn't want to hear about her special friends but he doesn't say anything later when he's at a party with his father and his special friend. I wish they had him say something or even just show him uncomfortable.

[formerlyfreedom]

A reminder to please stick to the episode discussion in the episode topics - for events that happened differently or aren't covered in the episodes, the appropriate topic to post is Season 5: History Beyond the Episodes. Thank you.

[EtheltoTillie]

On 11/16/2022 at 11:28 PM, Lady Whistleup said:

I agree the lack of Harry is weird, but it's a very Peter Morgan thing to do -- he only writes about people who capture his imagination. If you watched the Crown you'd barely be aware of the existence of Prince Edward, for example.

I think in general people are barely aware of Prince Edward.