S01.E07: Announcement

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

The repercussions of the Aldhani heist reach all the way to Coruscant, while Cassian returns home.

Dropping Wednesday, October 19, 2022.

[paigow]

Title: Announcement

Setting up for a high body count finale...

The Bourne Universe has taken over LucasVerse... Pamela Landy Dedra constantly defends her territory against Noah Vosen Blevins and raises her profile with the CIA ISB Regional Director. She will probably arrange for Cassian to escape and follow him to a Rebel cell.

Meanwhile, Conklin Luthen has ordered a hit on his own protege to be carried out by another Treadstone Rebel operative.

Get some rest Pam Dedra, you look tired

Edited October 19, 2022 by paigow

[Athena5217]

Another awesome episode. How ironic that when Cassian is actually innocent, he is sentenced to 6 years in prison. 
 

I think Mon Mothma was getting a kick out of telling her old friend that she was secretly a rebel. Considering her husband seems like a tool, I can’t blame her for getting her kicks in where she can. 
 

Was the woman who met with Vel the same woman who works for Luthen in the gallery?  I think she is, but I wasn’t sure because the hair and makeup is so different.

I have a bad feeling Cinta is not going to make it off Aldani because of the increased security. Fingers crossed she does not become another dead lesbian character on a television drama. 

[wanderingstar]

This show is so good.

Cassian's homecoming was not what he expected. His conversation with Marva before he left was heartbreaking. And Bix looks so broken. You can see how traumatized everyone is after that raid by the corpos. Bix saying "You lie, you steal, then you disappear" was real. Cassian escaped off Ferrix and everyone else was left to suffer the consequences.

Almost didn't recognize Vel with her glow up! I really hope she and Cinta reunite before the end of the season.

Absolutely loved all of the Mon Mothma scenes. Her argument with Luthen highlighted the complexities of a revolution. Mon seems like more of an incrementalist while Luthen is more aggressive. And Mon's talk with Tay was fantastic. Loved how she kept telling him to smile.

So, the Imperials are punishing the Aldhanis in the wake of the raid. Hearing that news report was chilling.

Enjoyed the turf war between Meero and Blevin. 

Niamos looks like a terrifying place. They just snatched up Cassian and railroaded him. Damn. 

I did love the music that introduced is to Niamos. 

Edited October 19, 2022 by Gillian Rosh

[absnow54]

Prison heist. Prison heist. Prison heist.

[Msample]

I can’t tell whether Luthen was more pleased with the cash from the heist or the Imperial crackdown which will drive more supporters to join the Rebellion.

[wanderingstar]

1 hour ago, absnow54 said:

Prison heist. Prison heist. Prison heist.

My mind went here too - well, more prison escape than heist.

[angora]

This show really works on all levels. Cassian's my favorite, but even in an episode where he has fewer scenes, all the other plots keep my attention 100%. Loved the argument between Mon Mothma and Luthen, the party where Mon Mothma is opening up (to a point) to her old friend, all the ISB interplay, and more. I hardly recognized Vel, which I liked--it highlighted how little we know about her outside of that one Rebel mission. Also, I REALLY hope Cinta makes it out alive.

It's no surprise that Cassian is regressing after the Aldhani mission. We already knew he was taking his payment and getting out, but he's right back to his old habits, naively acting like he's finally going to fix everything and shrugging off responsibility for the hurt he's caused others. What happened on Morlana-1 was complex and he panicked, but his actions afterward had repercussions on the whole town, and Bix wouldn't let him shut his eyes to that. He thinks that enough money will shield him from all his problems, but Niamos quickly taught him that there's nowhere he can really escape.

So interesting that learning about the heist on Aldhani spurred Maarva to want to be part of the Rebellion. She's getting in right as Cassian is running away, but she doesn't know anything about his involvement in it? Gahh, that whole scene was so rich, I loved it. I also thought the brief flashbacks with Clem were well done and told us a lot of Cassian, Maarva, and their life on Ferrix.

[Penman61]

This show is so, so good.

The question of how best to conduct a rebellion--how much "collateral damage" is necessary when you deliberately provoke the colonizer into over-reacting as part of your long-term strategy--always seems simpler morally after it's happened. Then you know whether the ends justified the horrific means. (I guess the audience knows the outcome in this SW universe, but the characters sure don't.)

But making those decisions without knowing the outcome is just wrenching, and I'm trying to think of another work of popular entertainment that shows us not only that question being worked out in real time, but also doesn't shy away from showing us the suffering of that "collateral damage" on both sides.

Also, Mon Mothma's outfits are fabulous.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Penman61

[wanderingstar]

Can't believe I forgot about Karn. His new office was giving me serious 1984 vibes.

[Penman61]

21 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Can't believe I forgot about Karn. His new office was giving me serious 1984 vibes.

Yes. I also thought we were getting the Severance/Andor crossover that only I have called for...

[absnow54]

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Also, Mon Mothma's outfits are fabulous.

She picked up Padme's fashion torch and has run with it. 

[thuganomics85]

Karn getting stuck in what looks like the Imperial version of an office job is just hilarious!  I love that his character is being used (at least for now) to show what life is like in the "corpo" world in this show.  Could be worse, I guess!  At least he isn't on the Star Wars version of a call center!

Interesting seeing Cassian going back home here and realizing what his actions; even if inadvertent; caused with the new occupation.  Poor Bix seems broken right now and I'm not sure if she'll be able to recover from it.  Meanwhile, Maarva has actually almost gone in the reverse: the occupation has made her want to stay and stand up to them in any way she can and won't simply run off with Cassian.  So, now he's alone again.  And even got thrown in prison thanks to being in the wrong place at the wrong time and getting tossed in for trumped up charges.  Prison break time!

Niamos looks like an interesting new (I think?) edition to the Star Wars lore.

The Luthen/Mon Motham exchange was fantastic and perfectly acted.  Especially Luthen pretty much acknowledging that he knew the heist was going to lead to crackdowns and possibly innocents being harmed (or worse), but he knew this is what is needed for true rebellion to happen.  Just some of the hard decisions and sacrifices that usually get glossed over with shows/films like this.  And Motham working the party to gain an ally with her childhood friend was a great moment as well.

Looks like Dedra might be getting taken seriously after-all.  But her superior is right about her watching her back because her rival probably won't sit back and take this lying down.

[Tachi Rocinante]

3 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Can't believe I forgot about Karn. His new office was giving me serious 1984 vibes.

Office Space for me.

[paigow]

3 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Karn getting stuck in what looks like the Imperial version of an office job is just hilarious! 

If the showrunners were trying to build sympathy for Karn, they missed like a stormtrooper... 

They tried shooting Clem 1.0 but gave up and went with hanging instead... 

[Spartan Girl]

Fiona Shaw knocked it out of the park with that scene.

So Mon’s husband and daughter don’t know she’s a rebel. Oh boy. I have a bad feeling that they’re going to betray her before the show is over.

[paigow]

9 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

My mind went here too - well, more prison escape than heist.

Cassian will get a cellmate who has the entire prison layout tattooed on his back....

[Msample]

I’ll be shocked if one of those two feuding ISB officers isn’t a Rebel sympathizer.

[Jeddah]

I love that Luthen told Mon Motha he needed more money, and then organized a gigantic heist behind her back. Where did all that money end up?

Was it K-2SO choking Cassian or just a random Imperial droid?

I didn’t recognize Vel at first! I really don’t want to watch her hunt down Cassian.

Maarva broke my heart. That was a sad goodbye. I wanted him to tell her he did the heist. I almost forgot that Cassian searching for his sister is what set this all in motion. I hope he does find her at some point.

Edited October 20, 2022 by Jeddah

[absnow54]

11 hours ago, Msample said:

I’ll be shocked if one of those two feuding ISB officers isn’t a Rebel sympathizer.

My money's on Meero. She seems intrigued by the cat and mouse game the Rebellion poses, and putting the puzzle together. I feel like she's going to reach a point where she gets fed up with the Empire's ineptitude, and will defect to the Rebellion, where she can reach her full potential as a strategist. 

11 hours ago, Jeddah said:

I didn’t recognize Vel at first! I really don’t want to watch her hunt down Cassian.

I have a feeling she's going to break Cassian out of prison, and instead of killing him, have him help her reconnect with Cinta.

[Tachi Rocinante]

3 hours ago, absnow54 said:

My money's on Meero. She seems intrigued by the cat and mouse game the Rebellion poses, and putting the puzzle together. I feel like she's going to reach a point where she gets fed up with the Empire's ineptitude, and will defect to the Rebellion,

I sorta agree, but if that is the case, it will take something more significant to happen to her before she turns.

[Shanna Marie]

This was a good chance to catch our breath and show the aftermath from last week while setting up the next arc. I liked getting to see the follow-up conversations when Cassian went home and talked to Bix and his mom, and then there was the reaction between Mon Mothma and Luthen.

We've got another odd paradox with Cassian -- the isolated loner who has a loving adoptive mom (and 'droid). Even at home with someone he loves who loves him, he has this air of being lost. And for someone who's spent most of his life on the wrong side of authority, he's not very good at being a fugitive. He needs to learn that "always looking over your shoulder" maybe shouldn't be so literal because that looks quite suspicious.

This show really messes with your perception of good guys/bad guys because of the way some of the storylines are in silos. Since Dedra isn't yet doing anything that's hurting any of our heroes, she's coming across as the "good guy" in her story line where she's the protagonist. I caught myself cheering when she had her moment of triumph, then remembered that she works for the Empire, and it's not good that she's managed to get approval to track possible rebel activity. We don't want that to happen. But at the same time, I hate her less than I hate the other characters in her story, so I find myself cheering for her. Likewise, I started the season wanting Karn to suffer horribly, and now that he is, I find myself feeling sorry for him because he's now the most sympathetic person in his arc and he ended up with a fate worse than death. Meanwhile, we've got the "good guys" coldly talking about taking out an ally because he's a loose end and deliberately setting up the Empire to clamp down on citizens so they'll be more motivated to rebel. If the stories end up converging directly, I'm sure my allegiances will shift again.

The costume design in this series is fantastic. I kept wanting to freeze-frame the party to look at the clothes. I dig the general "hood and cape" aesthetic in this universe. I've loved it since Princess Leia's cowl/hood on her white dress, and I love the way they incorporate that look into a lot of the clothes. I want that red hooded jacket.

[Ms.Moon]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

This was a good chance to catch our breath and show the aftermath from last week while setting up the next arc. I liked getting to see the follow-up conversations when Cassian went home and talked to Bix and his mom, and then there was the reaction between Mon Mothma and Luthen.

We've got another odd paradox with Cassian -- the isolated loner who has a loving adoptive mom (and 'droid). Even at home with someone he loves who loves him, he has this air of being lost. And for someone who's spent most of his life on the wrong side of authority, he's not very good at being a fugitive. He needs to learn that "always looking over your shoulder" maybe shouldn't be so literal because that looks quite suspicious.

This show really messes with your perception of good guys/bad guys because of the way some of the storylines are in silos. Since Dedra isn't yet doing anything that's hurting any of our heroes, she's coming across as the "good guy" in her story line where she's the protagonist. I caught myself cheering when she had her moment of triumph, then remembered that she works for the Empire, and it's not good that she's managed to get approval to track possible rebel activity. We don't want that to happen. But at the same time, I hate her less than I hate the other characters in her story, so I find myself cheering for her. Likewise, I started the season wanting Karn to suffer horribly, and now that he is, I find myself feeling sorry for him because he's now the most sympathetic person in his arc and he ended up with a fate worse than death. Meanwhile, we've got the "good guys" coldly talking about taking out an ally because he's a loose end and deliberately setting up the Empire to clamp down on citizens so they'll be more motivated to rebel. If the stories end up converging directly, I'm sure my allegiances will shift again.

The costume design in this series is fantastic. I kept wanting to freeze-frame the party to look at the clothes. I dig the general "hood and cape" aesthetic in this universe. I've loved it since Princess Leia's cowl/hood on her white dress, and I love the way they incorporate that look into a lot of the clothes. I want that red hooded jacket.

Everyone has been in love with the costumes on Andor.  Everyone in the recaps I have seen have complimented the costuming on the show and that woman in the red coat with the hood has ignited frantic screencap searches.  I will not be surprised to see someone wearing it at Comic Con next year.

[Sarah 103]

On 10/19/2022 at 1:10 PM, Gillian Rosh said:

Can't believe I forgot about Karn. His new office was giving me serious 1984 vibes.

It reminded me of the row of desks that you see early in the 1960s movie The Apartment. 

21 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

So Mon’s husband and daughter don’t know she’s a rebel. Oh boy. I have a bad feeling that they’re going to betray her before the show is over.

Maybe, but they have to find out first, and it seems like she's doing a decent job of keeping it hidden. The daughter is a fairly typical self-absorbed teenager who isn't interested in her parents beyond how what they are doing impacts her life. 

19 hours ago, Jeddah said:

Was it K-2SO choking Cassian or just a random Imperial droid?

I'm going with yes and my first thought was "I don't know what the opposite of meet cute is, but I'm pretty sure this is it."

Did anyone else think Niamos looked like Greece/somewhere in the Mediterranean? 

This episode may have been the best yet. Everything that has been set up is starting to pay off in a big way and it makes me excited for what is coming next.  

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Sarah 103 said:

Did anyone else think Niamos looked like Greece/somewhere in the Mediterranean? 

Another Bourne callback... 

[rtms77]

Sooo basically Luthrn is very likely part of Saw Gurrea group or very close to that idea. We know Mon Motha rejects Saw  and these tactics out right a yr before ANH as seen in Rebels. We see the beginnings of it here where she’s taken aback by what’s happened. On the other hand I loved watching her at the party trying to recruit her old friend. It’s a wonder how she and Bail Organa managed to navigate. She can’t even trust her own husband, she knows he would turn her in! 
 

Was it just me or did Luthrn assistant look like a young Carrie Fisher?

[Athena5217]

7 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

This show really messes with your perception of good guys/bad guys because of the way some of the storylines are in silos. Since Dedra isn't yet doing anything that's hurting any of our heroes, she's coming across as the "good guy" in her story line where she's the protagonist. I caught myself cheering when she had her moment of triumph, then remembered that she works for the Empire, and it's not good that she's managed to get approval to track possible rebel activity. We don't want that to happen. But at the same time, I hate her less than I hate the other characters in her story, so I find myself cheering for her.

I have moments of rooting for Dedra because I think there may be some sexism involved with Blevin’s treatment of her and she seems to be the only woman in those meetings. Then I remember she’s working for the Empire and would probably execute a bunch of Ewok babies if she thought it would advance her career. Still, she is more interesting than the many incompetent Imperial officers Vader has force choked.

[andromeda331]

I like Dedra. She's competent and I like competent leaders. I like her like I like Thrawn. Smart and competent. 

I hope there's a prison break soon.

[Cthulhudrew]

3 hours ago, rtms77 said:

Was it just me or did Luthrn assistant look like a young Carrie Fisher?

You're not the only one. At first I thought that she was supposed to be Princess Leia meeting covertly, but Leia wouldn't condone killing their own (mercenary) agent for no clear and present reason.

[RobertDeSneero]

This episode feels like the direction Rian Johnson was trying to pull Star Wars towards.

[absnow54]

12 hours ago, rtms77 said:

Was it just me or did Luthrn assistant look like a young Carrie Fisher?

The character's name is Cleya (essentially pronounced (C)Leia), which really doesn't help. 

[Shanna Marie]

10 hours ago, Cthulhudrew said:

You're not the only one. At first I thought that she was supposed to be Princess Leia meeting covertly, but Leia wouldn't condone killing their own (mercenary) agent for no clear and present reason.

Me too. I didn't recognize Cleya with her hair down and dressed differently, and for a moment I wondered if that was supposed to be young Leia, but then I did the mental math, and Leia would have been 14-15 or so at this time, so that couldn't be her. I only figured out who she was when she started talking.

10 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I like Dedra. She's competent and I like competent leaders.

I think it's the "smartest/most competent person in the room" factor that makes me like her -- at least until she's a direct threat to Cassian or Mon Mothma.

18 hours ago, Ms.Moon said:

Everyone in the recaps I have seen have complimented the costuming on the show and that woman in the red coat with the hood has ignited frantic screencap searches.  I will not be surprised to see someone wearing it at Comic Con next year.

I'd wear that outfit to the grocery store. It's not obviously "costumey." No one who didn't watch this show would think it was a Star Wars costume, and yet it fits perfectly in that world. I also love the way they're interpreting the Imperial uniforms. They're building on what we've seen in other films/shows, but I think we're also getting some slightly different looks. This show also seems to be giving us a lot more civilian clothing in that universe than we've seen in previous movies and shows. We're getting a look at what people wear in daily life, in a variety of classes and settings, from the laborers to the middle-management to the elite.

[Ilovepie]

20 hours ago, Ms.Moon said:

Everyone has been in love with the costumes on Andor.  

My personal favorite was Cassian's beach holiday get up. I would wear that, and I am a 50 yo woman. I cannot deny that his shirtless bathroom scene wasn't nice to look at either ;-p Also, what was he doing there??? Guess I was distracted by the pecs........

19 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

I'm going with yes and my first thought was "I don't know what the opposite of meet cute is, but I'm pretty sure this is it."

I literally yelled out loud when I saw him come from behind the wall and choke him. I cannot wait! But what a sham - six years for basically looking around in a suspicious manner! No trial - just six years for basically doing nothing! Still, he might be safer in prison than with the empire looking for him and Vel now turning hit woman with him as her target.....

11 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I like Dedra. She's competent and I like competent leaders.

I kind of loved when she went off in that meeting, and her co-worker got demoted. I feel like I see her turning on the empire more than Karn. I think the deeper she digs the more corruption she will find in the Empire. And what a catch she would be for the rebellion. Smart, fierce and tenacious.

I thought the scene between Cassian and his mom was so wonderful. When he said "I would worry all the time" and she said "that's just love" I cried. She just summarized being a parent. For me, one of the most emotional scenes in any star wars show or movie. I absolutely love Fiona Shaw here. Cane in one hand and a gun in the other. That fighting spirit is the reason the Empire eventually fails.

The argument between Luthen and Mon Mothma was great. I felt it was basically piss or get off the pot time for him, and she's not ready to come out of the shadows yet. I wonder if Dedra's digging is going to lead her to either of these characters?

This show is jut killing it for me. I really enjoy all these show (well, not Boba Fett until Mando showed up), but this one is hitting the emotional beats and characterizations better even if it's been a slow burn. I love it.

[Sarah 103]

20 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

My personal favorite was Cassian's beach holiday get up. I would wear that, and I am a 50 yo woman. I cannot deny that his shirtless bathroom scene wasn't nice to look at either ;-p Also, what was he doing there??? Guess I was distracted by the pecs........

I have had a similar issue with other series, but not this one. He was on Niamos hiding out from the Empire. This was where he decided to go and start over. 

[Ilovepie]

21 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I have had a similar issue with other series, but not this one. He was on Niamos hiding out from the Empire. This was where he decided to go and start over. 

I didn't mean what was he doing on Niamos, I meant what was he doing in that bathroom when he had the shower running to conceal whatever he was doing.

[Shanna Marie]

21 minutes ago, Ilovepie said:

I didn't mean what was he doing on Niamos, I meant what was he doing in that bathroom when he had the shower running to conceal whatever he was doing.

I think he was getting cash out of the stash he was hiding over the shower, and there may have been something else in that case, but I was a bit distracted, as well.

[MJ Frog]

On 10/20/2022 at 9:46 AM, absnow54 said:

My money's on Meero. She seems intrigued by the cat and mouse game the Rebellion poses, and putting the puzzle together. I feel like she's going to reach a point where she gets fed up with the Empire's ineptitude, and will defect to the Rebellion, where she can reach her full potential as a strategist. 

I hope so. She would be one HELL of an asset. I love how this show is so multi-layered that I keep pulling for her even though she's actively working against the people I want to win. I even find myself grudgingly admiring her boss, who seems to be less of a CYA and more of a the-best-answer-wins kind of manager. I am helpless in the face of good problem solving skills. This is one of the hallmarks of good writing, where all of the characters are interesting, and all have some degree of recognizable, if not always relatable, humanity.

It has occurred to me that she and Karn are two sides of the same coin: conscientious servants of the Empire trying to rise above the self-serving mediocrity of their peers. And yet, I like Meero a lot more than I do Karn. I actually liked his keep-things-status-quo boss a lot more than I like Karn. He did a heck of a job tracking down Cassian, but I still think of him as an annoying try-hard and Meera as coolly capable.

Mon Mothma in the lion's den makes me so damn nervous for her. I am tense during all of her scenes. This despite the fact that I already know how she ends up. God knows what terrible things happen to her before she gets there, though.

Edited October 21, 2022 by MJ Frog
Some more words.

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I think he was getting cash out of the stash he was hiding over the shower, and there may have been something else in that case, but I was a bit distracted, as well.

Despite being a tad distracted (and understandabily so) you are correct. 

[raven]

3 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

It has occurred to me that she and Karn are two sides of the same coin: conscientious servants of the Empire trying to rise above the self-serving mediocrity of their peers.

I like that I can't make up my mind where each storyline is going.  Meero broke rules and it's finally been to her benefit so we think she will rise in the Imperial ranks.  Karn broke rules and got tossed out (granted, people died when he did it) so we think he will end up with the Rebellion.  Yet I can see the reverse happening, or they both join the Rebellion...I just don't know.

I love that all the individual story threads are interesting and no time feels wasted.   I was wondering if Luthen even knew that Kleya met Vel and gave her instructions to kill Cassian.  Luthen had really wanted Cassian involved and knew his backstory.  Luthen is definitely ruthless but I don't know - maybe Kleya is really in charge?  Or she wants Cassian dead and knows Luthen won't give the order?  Vel was expecting Luthen - she says "where is he" so...it made me think.  This coldness of some of the pre-Rebellion insiders is very believable.  Luthen and Kleya weren't particularly concerned that the Empire rounded up the remaining Aldhani people; actually they want people to suffer, to bring more to their cause.

Kudos to casting - Stellan Skarsgard and Genevieve O'Reilly (Mon Mothma) are doing great work.  I really enjoy their scenes together, though Mon Mothma putting feelers out to her friend at the party was also really good - so tense, the back and forth and "smile". 

Oh, Cassian!  He just didn't know what to do with  himself when Maarva refused to come with him.   I hope she doesn't get killed and that's what turns him into a true believer. 

I have really no complaints except waiting a week between episodes.

[Cthulhudrew]

Among the other things about this episode that were wonderful (and mentioned by so many of you above), I loved that we got a new and different location in the Star Wars world with the beach resort city. This show is doing such a great job of making the Star Wars universe alive and vibrant and lived in in ways that not too many other entries in the SW movies and shows have done. (Particularly the prequels, where so many of the sets just felt too pristine and unnatural, and the CGI they used to make them meant there was no weight or substance to the actors' performances.)

On 10/21/2022 at 9:55 AM, absnow54 said:

The character's name is Cleya (essentially pronounced (C)Leia), which really doesn't help. 

I didn't even realize her name was Cleya. Now I'm envisioning a Star Wars version of this scene:

Edited October 22, 2022 by Cthulhudrew

[wanderingstar]

I know Anton Lesser (Maj. Partagaz) from his role as Chief Superintendent Bright on the PBS Masterpiece series Endeavour. For that reason, I very badly want to believe that his statement in this episode - "I'm wondering where we'd be right now if everyone here showed the same endeavor as Supervisor Meero" - is an easter egg for us Endeavour fans 😄

[Shanna Marie]

18 hours ago, raven said:

Meero broke rules and it's finally been to her benefit so we think she will rise in the Imperial ranks.  Karn broke rules and got tossed out (granted, people died when he did it) so we think he will end up with the Rebellion. 

I think more accurately, Karn insisted on following the rules, with terrible consequences. His boss was the one breaking rules. The letter of the law would have had him doing what Karn did (though hopefully a little more competently) and investigating and prosecuting the deaths of the two men. But he was being pragmatic and realized that doing so would end up doing more harm than good. It would draw Imperial attention to their operation and take a lot of resources, and those two guys were such losers that they weren't worth it (in a way, Cassian did them a favor by clearing out some problem employees). Karn insisted on obeying the letter of the law, against all common sense and without weighing the potential cost. So I'd say that Meero and Karn are opposites. She violates the letter of the rules on the grounds of efficiency and common sense, while Karn blindly follows the letter of the law, disregarding common sense or efficiency. When you look at it that way, Karn might be more likely to rise in Imperial ranks because he's good at following rules strictly without considering nuances, while Meero might eventually come to see that the Empire is in the wrong, regardless of what the law says.

Though then there's the potential variables of how things are handled. Right now, she's being rewarded for thinking outside the box, so she may end up being more pro-Empire. Karn may see from his time in the Cube Farm from Hell that rigid adherence to rules and policies is going to limit his life and prospects. But right now, I'd say the "but it was the law!" guy is more likely to stay pro-Empire. That's how people have rationalized their participation in atrocities throughout history.

[raven]

1 hour ago, Shanna Marie said:

When you look at it that way, Karn might be more likely to rise in Imperial ranks because he's good at following rules strictly without considering nuances, while Meero might eventually come to see that the Empire is in the wrong, regardless of what the law says.

Karn disobeyed his superior's order to stay out of it.  By then blindly following the letter of the law, people were killed and he lost his position.  This episode may have taught him that blind adherence is not the way to go and that you have to assess each situation, and perhaps listen to those who have more experience.  Karn also wasn't prepared for the resistance they encountered - no one in his group really was, IIRC.  Cassian also could have killed Karn and chose not to.  We don't know how Karn feels about that.  This entire episode has turned Karn's life upside down.  I can see how this would make him rethink his priorities and what he thought he knew, as well as shaken his confidence.

If Meero is rewarded for thinking outside the box and is able to prove her theories, she will have less reason to turn against the Empire.  She has been scorned by a co-worker but her supervisor is impressed and encouraging, though he wasn't at first.  She has not yet had anything happen, as Karn has, which could be called an epiphany.   She is extremely confident (as Karn was, before his fall from grace) and so far it has been to her advantage.  She hasn't been tossed out of her position and hasn't had any reason to doubt her career path.   Despite adversity, her career is on the rise and Karn has hit bottom.

However, I could also argue the opposite for each, as you have @Shanna Marie, which is why I like this show.   

[paigow]

Karn dumb. Dedra smart. Nuff said. The Rebels might not be in the position to be choosy; however, if Karn wanted to join up, he might get rejected. 

[Shanna Marie]

On 10/22/2022 at 1:31 PM, raven said:

She has not yet had anything happen, as Karn has, which could be called an epiphany. 

But has Karn had an epiphany? I don't really get the sense that he's actually learned anything from this experience. The way he described the incident during his job interview made it sound like he thinks he was in the right and has been unfairly treated, but he seems to be stuck at "the universe is unfair to me" rather than "the Empire is an unjust and oppressive system." He's got big "my genius is unappreciated" energy. I don't yet see anything that would send him into the arms of the rebels. He's more likely to go rogue to prove himself to the Empire, like trying to capture Cassian himself to vindicate his earlier failed effort to bring him in, especially if Cassian gets implicated in the heist.

I think a big difference between Karn and Dedra is their motivation. Dedra seems to be focused on solving the puzzle -- she's noticing things that might add up to a big problem, and she's frustrated that the idiots she works with are so focused on maintaining their own personal spheres of power that they can't see the big picture and are trying to frustrate her efforts to see the big picture. If she gets rewarded for figuring it all out, that would be nice, and she would prefer not to get in trouble for actually doing her job in a smart way, but as ambitious as she seems to be, I don't think ambition is her primary motivation. In fact, that's part of the problem with her coworkers, that they think she's crossing jurisdictional lines out of ambition and are trying to thwart her because of that when she's actually trying to solve the puzzle and spot the rebellion as it's forming, which is what their job is supposed to be. Karn seemed to be trying to elevate himself. He was going to solve the case and bring in the killer while his boss was out, making himself look good and his boss look bad. The whole thing was a matter of honor/ego. It wasn't that he cared about the men Cassian killed, but he took it as a personal insult that people in his organization were killed, and he was going to be the one to get justice (and maybe a good promotion).

On 10/22/2022 at 1:31 PM, raven said:

However, I could also argue the opposite for each, as you have @Shanna Marie, which is why I like this show.   

They definitely do shades of gray well. In most American TV, the way they do "gray" is by having the villain do one nice thing or the hero do one bad thing. But this has people who seem decent working for an organization that's ultimately evil (even if that evil isn't yet totally clear yet), with motivations that aren't entirely bad. They think they're bringing order to the galaxy and stopping criminals. And it has people who are fighting on the side of freedom doing some questionable things out of pragmatism because their position is so fragile that they can't take any risks. And then there's the guy who's kind of a jerk, but is he evil and can/will he be redeemed?

[raven]

2 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

But has Karn had an epiphany?

To me, it seems like he is thinking things through; that the loss of his job and having to come home has been a shock and wake up call that he wasn't on the best career path or is making him doubt everything he was so sure about before.  I actually don't get a huge sense of anger from him; he seems to be in a holding pattern.  Maybe the actor is trying to play it as if he's holding his anger inside, but he seems to me to be regrouping.    I feel the opposite that you do about Dedra as well - that she is very ambitious.  Yes, she wants to prove wrong those who didn't listen to her, and she is supremely confident (as Karn was) but rising in the ranks is extremely important to her.

The predictable route is that Karn will make a move against Cassian, fail again and be killed; or attempt to infiltrate the Rebellion for vengeance against Cassian with the same result - something will happen so that he will fall again.   It would also be predictable for Dedra, while going through her investigation, to become a rebel sympathizer and/or a double agent.  

I am hoping the show does something that isn't predictable.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, raven said:

The predictable route is that Karn will make a move against Cassian, fail again and be killed; or attempt to infiltrate the Rebellion for vengeance against Cassian with the same result - something will happen so that he will fall again.   It would also be predictable for Dedra, while going through her investigation, to become a rebel sympathizer and/or a double agent.  

Agent Kallus from Star Wars: Rebels ended up on Team Rebellion... Maybe Dedra will get a similar arc...

[HelloooKitty]

On 10/20/2022 at 9:17 PM, rtms77 said:

Was it just me or did Luthrn assistant look like a young Carrie Fisher?

Not just you, I was wondering if the robes figure was supposed to be a young Leia. 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/19/2022 at 8:39 AM, Athena5217 said:

Was the woman who met with Vel the same woman who works for Luthen in the gallery?  I think she is, but I wasn’t sure because the hair and makeup is so different.

Even Vel looked way different. To the point where I was wondering if it had been Rhea Seehorn from Better Call Saul playing the character then whole time and I hadn't noticed.

On 10/21/2022 at 1:44 PM, Ilovepie said:

This show is jut killing it for me. I really enjoy all these show (well, not Boba Fett until Mando showed up), but this one is hitting the emotional beats and characterizations better even if it's been a slow burn. I love it.

I like how it is star wars but the usual Star Wars people haven't shown up (and probably won't) other than Andor I guess and Mon Mothma (who was in like 1 scene in Jedi I think). No Boba Fett or Chewie or even Darth Vader. And we will likely not go to Tatooine. It's great seeing other viewpoints as to what imperial rule is like. 

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Even Vel looked way different. To the point where I was wondering if it had been Rhea Seehorn from Better Call Saul playing the character then whole time and I hadn't noticed.

I like how it is star wars but the usual Star Wars people haven't shown up (and probably won't) other than Andor I guess and Mon Mothma (who was in like 1 scene in Jedi I think). No Boba Fett or Chewie or even Darth Vader. And we will likely not go to Tatooine. It's great seeing other viewpoints as to what imperial rule is like. 

I've been interested in Mon Mothma ever since. A woman who was the leader of the Rebellion. It was so rare in stories.