S05.E06: Together

[Whimsy]

Quote

June and Luke’s mission puts them in serious jeopardy. Serena senses a threat from her benefactors. Lawrence and Nick make a shocking power move.

Original airdate 10/12/22

[AntFTW]

I feel like Serena’s been pregnant for the last 3 seasons.

[Redrum]

So, Esther is pregnant and Lydia susses out that it had to be Commander Putnam who forced Esther to screw him at the funeral just three weeks prior, before she was assigned. She promptly rats him out to Lawrence who is suspiciously "who cares". Putnam is also surprisingly "whatevs" to Lawrence and Nick as he trounces their plans for New Bethlehem. Then Lawrence turns the tables, has Putnam arrested at a nice breakfast and shot to death by Nick for apostasy. Kinda saw that coming.

Nick's wife is ALSO pregnant apparently.

Luke and June end up in the abandoned warehouse district of Angel Grove, aka  No Man's Land (extra points if you recognize the reference) They laugh, they cry, they hang out and reminisce. Then they are seperated, with June being taken further into Gilead, in theory, and Luke taken to the border (I think)

Serena finds out that there's a birthing suite at the Wheelers and is super creeped out by it and by the expectation that she better get her ass married. Mr. Wheeler mentions that a) he has people in No Man's Land and b) they have caught June and Luke. Serena demands she be taken to No Man's Land so she can properly help murder June, and for some unstated reason, Wheeler agrees to this despite Serena being quite pregnant.

Serena and June meet on a dirt road in No Man's Land. They talk, and I am pretty sure this clip will be the "For Your Consideration" Emmy submission for Elizabeth Moss (I missed her performing this well) Serena begs her lone male attendant for the gun so she can have the pleasure of killing June. She promptly shoots the male guard and, keeping the gun on June, orders June into the car to drive them to.... Toronto?

This was super slow until the end and then it sorta exploded. Not sure how I feel about Serena and June road tripping like Thelma and Louise thru the ever increasing No Man's Land. 

Loved Putnam getting wasted by Nick. 

[chocolatine]

So Wheeler has a whole team of border vigilantes who roam No Man's Land catching people who are trying to make it out of Gilead and taking them back. If he's such a Gilead loyalist, why not give up his cushy life in democratic Canada and move there with his wife? What a hypocritical piece of shit.

Did I understand correctly that Lawrence didn't care one iota about Putnam raping Esther and only had him executed because Putnam opposed the New Bethlehem plan? I know Lawrence has a lot of fans here, but I've never thought of him as a good guy. He only does things that further his agenda.

I knew that Serena would shoot Ezra because (a) I'd read spoilers, and (b) June's plot armor means she can't die yet. It looked like she shot him in a place that was covered by a bullet-proof vest, because the bullet didn't penetrate, so she must have been hedging her bets to not completely burn bridges with the Wheelers and Gilead, and only temporarily incapacitated Ezra instead of killing or injuring him.

Creepy gynecologist said something about Serena's blood pressure being elevated, so I wonder whether she'll have pre-eclampsia and die in childbirth. She already seemed to be in distress in the car on the way to meet June.

ETA: I wonder what happens to Naomi and Charlotte now after Putnam's very public execution. I really want Janine to be reunited with Charlotte by the end of the show (much more than I want June to be reunited with Hannah), so hopefully Charlotte doesn't get reassigned to an out-of-town commander's family. I don't see Naomi being allowed to keep Charlotte and continue living in the style to which she's accustomed. She's too old and unattractive for Jezebels, and doesn't seem to have the housekeeping skills to be a Martha. The best she can hope for is becoming an Aunt, but colonies are more likely if Lawrence and Nick want to wipe all traces of Putnam. Naomi doesn't have Serena's negotiation skills, so she can only hope the commanders pity her enough to spare her from the colonies.

Edited October 12, 2022 by chocolatine

[circumvent]

4 hours ago, Redrum said:

Not sure how I feel about Serena and June road tripping like Thelma and Louise thru the ever increasing No Man's Land. 

I would love to se them both end like Thelma and Louise though. Tired of that never ending plot of frenemies. 

[Baltimore Betty]

It only took a couple of days for Serena to see where things were heading for her, a prisoner in someone's home, being told what to eat, when to eat, when to rest, etc...she became very worried about her freedoms and was plotting her escape, does she see any parallel in her life and the one all the Handmaids, Martha's and Unwomen were forced to live?  Serena wasn't going to kill June, that would be too easy.

Lawrence saw the irony of Putnam raping Esther verses Aunt Lydia painting the monthly rapes as being nearer to G-d, Lawrence did not like Putnam and the fact that he opposed the New Bethlehem plan punishing him for the rape was a very convenient way to get rid of Putnam. I thought the commanders were all about trial, process and sentencing like they did when they cut off Putnam's arm, why the public execution with no trial, not that the outcome would be different.

Will June have to deliver Serena's baby?  I think the gynecologist possibly lied to Serena about her blood pressure, gas lighting her in to thinking she had to rest more, keeping her docile and locked up in the House of Wheeler's Home for Popular Fascist Women.

What will happen to Esther's baby now that Putnam is dead, they certainly will not let the Widow Putnam keep the baby not like she wants it anyway.

Janine had a good day in Gilead.

[Helena Dax]

Oooh, I liked this episode! It was a bit slow at first and I could have done without the scenes with June and Luke in jail, but I loved everything else. First, I'm so happy to see Putnam go. I guess the story doesn't need him anymore, now that we have two new baddies, Mr. Wheeler and Hannah's "dad" (Mackenzie?). Honestly, I can't believe the guy didn't learn to keep his prick inside his trousers after losing an arm because of it! And good for aunt Lydia. She said she was going to take better care of the Handmaids and she did. She's a true believer and I think that's why Lawrence didn't show her his cards when she went to talk to him. She'll never compromise and he needs to compromise sometimes. Now, if Putnam had supported Lawrence's plan, perhaps L. would have ignored the accusation because in his head, New Bethlehem is the better good, but since Putnam was against it, the rape was the perfect excuse to get rid of him.

And poor Esther. It's easier to understand now why she tried to attack Janine. Kudos to the actress, because she was terrific in her scene in the hospital.

And Serena! Not exactly a surprise, but a welcome twist. I mean, by now she was fully aware of how fucked her situation was, so no way was she going to blow her only chance to become free and keep the baby. Besides, perhaps this time she had finally started to realize that June had a point. She doesn't trust June, but she wanted her alive, even if it's only to good look in front of the Canadians and the US government.

Now hopefully Serena and June will tell the Canadians about Wheeler's operation. Since he's doing it he in No Man's Land, there's probably nothing they can do from a legal pov, but at least they'll know what kind of creepy snake he is, and if he's planning to overthrow the Canadian government and turn it into Gilead 2.0, that's treason and he could be sent to jail.

[AntFTW]

So Wheeler has a whole border patrol apparatus that smuggles people into Gilead, and he's in Canada? How exactly would he get away with something like that?

7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

I knew that Serena would shoot Ezra because (a) I'd read spoilers, and (b) June's plot armor means she can't die yet. It looked like she shot him in a place that was covered by a bullet-proof vest, because the bullet didn't penetrate, so she must have been hedging her bets to not completely burn bridges with the Wheelers and Gilead, and only temporarily incapacitated Ezra instead of killing or injuring him.

I didn't read any spoilers but I definitely felt like you can see that coming from a mile away.

[crashdown]

So Serena is in a lot of trouble with Gilead--she shot a Gilead guard (who lives to testify against her) and rescued their Public Enemy #1 at gunpoint. There's no going back to them now for her.

[Redrum]

1 minute ago, crashdown said:

So Serena is in a lot of trouble with Gilead--she shot a Gilead guard (who lives to testify against her) and rescued their Public Enemy #1 at gunpoint. There's no going back to them now for her.

I mean, there never really was any going back to begin with so hopefully this ends the Serena tries to resume life in Gilead stuff. But it won't, I fear. 

1 hour ago, Helena Dax said:

And good for aunt Lydia. She said she was going to take better care of the Handmaids and she did.

Except that Lawrence and Esther both made the very valid point that Lydia is still absolutely down for Handmaid raping.  Make no mistake - her objection was that Esther concieved outside the formal rape ceremony The plan was for Esther to be handed to Putnam for formal raping and Lydia IS pleased about the baby. That 14 year old rape victim Esther will be forced to bear. The end result of all of this is that Lydia will continue to hand over Handmaids for formal rape ceremonies. Not that Lydia will stop the raping.

1 hour ago, Helena Dax said:

She's a true believer and I think that's why Lawrence didn't show her his cards when she went to talk to him. She'll never compromise and he needs to compromise sometimes. Now, if Putnam had supported Lawrence's plan, perhaps L. would have ignored the accusation because in his head, New Bethlehem is the better good, but since Putnam was against it, the rape was the perfect excuse to get rid of him.

Agreed and thats why he poked at her beliefs and made the point that Esther did - ultimately Esther getting raped and pregnant was the plan.  Lawrence wants New Bethelham because he's realizing that Gilead as is can't last for long

35 minutes ago, AntFTW said:

So Wheeler has a whole border patrol apparatus that smuggles people into Gilead, and he's in Canada? How exactly would he get away with something like that?

Thats a good question.

[crashdown]

I was also thinking that there have been exactly two times in this show that Serena seemed like a regular person to me and not a crazy religious zealot. One was in that episode where she went to her mother's house after burning up her home when she said "I'm don't want to hang out with your friends, mom." The other was in this current episode, when she said "I'm not going to date my gynecologist."  Normal reactions from a normal person both!

[Baltimore Betty]

35 minutes ago, Redrum said:

Except that Lawrence and Esther both made the very valid point that Lydia is still absolutely down for Handmaid raping.  Make no mistake - her objection was that Esther concieved outside the formal rape ceremony The plan was for Esther to be handed to Putnam for formal raping and Lydia IS pleased about the baby. That 14 year old rape victim Esther will be forced to bear. The end result of all of this is that Lydia will continue to hand over Handmaids for formal rape ceremonies. Not that Lydia will stop the raping.

Lydia's idea of making things better for the Handmaids was to have the commanders come to the Red Center for the rape ceremony, as if location was the problem.

Did Esther know she was pregnant prior to being in the hospital?

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, AntFTW said:

So Wheeler has a whole border patrol apparatus that smuggles people into Gilead, and he's in Canada? How exactly would he get away with something like that?

It sounds like this is happening in No Man's Land and not in Canada, and they target people who haven't reached Canada and gotten refugee status there yet. They returned Luke to the Canadian border since "he's legal," so it seems like this is how they avoid trouble with Canadian authorities. June was an exception. The other people that were on the bus were dressed in Gilead clothing, so they had just come from there.

[AntFTW]

6 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

It sounds like this is happening in No Man's Land and not in Canada, and they target people who haven't reached Canada and gotten refugee status there yet. They returned Luke to the Canadian border since "he's legal," so it seems like this is how they avoid trouble with Canadian authorities. June was an exception. The other people that were on the bus were dressed in Gilead clothing, so they had just come from there.

This part I get. The activity of catching people and sending them back to Gilead happens in No Man's Land, I understand that part. However, his house is in Canada. His wife and other assets are in Canada.

What I am not understanding is how is he able to do that from Canada? Are the people on the ground from Gilead or Canada? How are they being paid, because I imagine they are not doing this for free? Is Wheeler paying salaries from Canada? Is Gilead funding it and letting Wheeler call the shots from Canada?

I would think that Canada wouldn't let Wheeler conduct this kind of activity while he lives in Canada.

I have so many questions.

Edited October 12, 2022 by AntFTW

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, AntFTW said:

This part I get. The activity of catching people and sending them back to Gilead happens in No Man's Land, I understand that part. However, his house is in Canada. His wife and other assets are in Canada.

What I am not understanding is how is he able to do that from Canada? Are the people on the ground from Gilead or Canada? How are they being paid, because I imagine they are not doing this for free? Is Wheeler paying salaries from Canada? Is Gilead funding it and letting Wheeler call the shots from Canada?

I would think that Canada wouldn't let Wheeler conduct this kind of activity while he lives in Canada

I have so many questions.

I think he's paying them from Canada, through a shell corporation that obfuscates what the money is used for, maybe calling it a "private security" service or something like that. Rich people do that all the time. I think as long as he and his employees pay their taxes properly, Canadian authorities are not going to care.

Edited October 12, 2022 by chocolatine

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Lydia's idea of making things better for the Handmaids was to have the commanders come to the Red Center for the rape ceremony, as if location was the problem.

Aunt Lydia is not against the rapes. She is against the rapes that don't follow the guidelines. Of course, when the handmaids are being raped, they will feel much better if they know that their rapists are being faithful to what the rules say, and not just improvising the attack. For Aunt Lydia, there is a privilege in being forcefully penetrated by a brute asshole, as long rituals are observed. the you get to be called "good girl".

[crashdown]

I love the humor behind the melodrama of the final scene, with June's eyerolling "For god's sake, Serena" as she's asked to her knees and the "What the fuck are you doing, Serena?" as Serena forces her into the car at gunpoint. Hah, hah! These two just kill me.

[Quilt Fairy]

When the doctor asks Serena to dinner he says "My Martha makes a great cedar planked salmon."  How the heck can he have a Martha?  They're in Canada!  Has Gilead made that many inroads into Canada?

[crashdown]

5 minutes ago, Quilt Fairy said:

How the heck can he have a Martha?  They're in Canada!  Has Gilead made that many inroads into Canada?

He has a maid that he calls a Martha, who agrees to it because she works for a weird rich person. It's not that surprising.

[Helena Dax]

2 hours ago, Redrum said:

Except that Lawrence and Esther both made the very valid point that Lydia is still absolutely down for Handmaid raping.  Make no mistake - her objection was that Esther concieved outside the formal rape ceremony The plan was for Esther to be handed to Putnam for formal raping and Lydia IS pleased about the baby. That 14 year old rape victim Esther will be forced to bear. The end result of all of this is that Lydia will continue to hand over Handmaids for formal rape ceremonies. Not that Lydia will stop the raping.

Oh, I know that. As I said, she's a believer and she still doesn't see she's a monster working for a terrible system, but I think that it was a tiny step in the right direction. She could have brushed it off, like Putnam expected other Commanders to do, or she could have blamed Esther. She's still a horrible person, though, no doubt about that. She looked thrilled at the idea of Esther getting a hysterectomy!!! (And being sent to a Jezabel, I assume).

Edited October 12, 2022 by Helena Dax

[chocolatine]

6 minutes ago, Helena Dax said:

She looked thrilled at the idea of Esther getting a hysterectomy!!!

Speaking of that - the doctor called it "harvesting her uterus" - what purpose does it serve exactly? Most of the women who are considered barren have uteruses, it's their eggs that aren't viable (or in most cases, their husbands' sperm). It would make a lot more sense to harvest Esther's eggs and use them for IVF.

[txhorns79]

12 hours ago, Redrum said:

She promptly shoots the male guard and, keeping the gun on June, orders June into the car to drive them to.... Toronto?

I swear to God if this show ends with June and Serena clutching hands as they drive their car over a cliff...

[DiabLOL]

So if they have the ability to harvest a uterus then they certainly can bypass the rape ceremonies and do IVF or whatever. OR just leave people alone to live their lives. They came up with religious bullshit tied into the general fears of extinction so that the commanders can run roughshod. I think there were people who helped form this society early on who “meant well” and maybe Lawrence is one of them? He was definitely fucking with Lydia to expose their compliance in the horrific abuse.

 I would really enjoy seeing Lawrence and Naomi married.

[circumvent]

49 minutes ago, DiabLOL said:

They came up with religious bullshit tied into the general fears of extinction so that the commanders can run roughshod.

Which is exactly how most fundamentalist religion work. Heck, even what some may consider mainstream religion in the US can come up with weird justifications for anything abusive or extreme they want to do. I mean, starting with the blue-eyed, white Jesus...

[DiabLOL]

I was just thinking how they wouldn’t even have to forcefully implant, they would have volunteers to carry to term for the greater good. Enslavement and rape are the whole entire point. Lydia is presumably a true believer and Lawrence is a strange deeply complex person but I love how inscrutable they all are. I guess same can be said about Serena and Nick whereas Nick and June are very clear about who they are and what they’re after.

[crashdown]

June might have done something very, very dumb in naming Nick and Joseph as her allies to Wheeler's guys. We'll see if that gets dropped or becomes an important plot point later.

[Whimsy]

7 hours ago, AntFTW said:

So Wheeler has a whole border patrol apparatus that smuggles people into Gilead, and he's in Canada? How exactly would he get away with something like that?

I didn't read any spoilers but I definitely felt like you can see that coming from a mile away.

I didn’t read any spoilers either, but I felt like that was telegraphed. 

6 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Did Esther know she was pregnant prior to being in the hospital?

There’s no way she could have. It was the same day she was raped that she poisoned herself and Janine. I don’t think she was trying to die because she was pregnant, but because she was raped and didn’t want that life. 
 

I’ve never really warmed up to Luke as a character. He’s always annoyed me, although slightly less now, and I was hoping this would finally be the end of him. Doesn’t look like it after all. 
 

So, obviously Serena is in labor and panicked. I fully believe the Wheeler’s were going to take that baby somehow. I just don’t really get what her plan is now, though. June will never be her ally.  

[revbfc]

Every now and then it’s important to mention that torture porn is not a substitute for plot.

[SourK]

I felt zero suspense about what Serena would do -- from the moment she said she had to "be there" when June died, I was like, "Okay, so you and June are starting up your odd couple comedy again. I guess that's a better way to escape the house than going to see that weird doctor."

Also, that was the moment I realized Serena might be smarter than me. I had been saying, "I don't understand why she isn't more confrontational about them holding her prisoner," but the reason was exactly for this: so that she could manipulate them by making them think she was cooperating, just like June used to do.

Otherwise, LOL at Lydia 2.0 with more compassion. She deserves to get screamed at by a teenager.

15 hours ago, chocolatine said:

ETA: I wonder what happens to Naomi and Charlotte now after Putnam's very public execution. I really want Janine to be reunited with Charlotte by the end of the show (much more than I want June to be reunited with Hannah), so hopefully Charlotte doesn't get reassigned to an out-of-town commander's family. I don't see Naomi being allowed to keep Charlotte and continue living in the style to which she's accustomed. She's too old and unattractive for Jezebels, and doesn't seem to have the housekeeping skills to be a Martha. The best she can hope for is becoming an Aunt, but colonies are more likely if Lawrence and Nick want to wipe all traces of Putnam. Naomi doesn't have Serena's negotiation skills, so she can only hope the commanders pity her enough to spare her from the colonies.

Naomi didn't do anything wrong, though, so they would probably just marry her off to a different Commander, wouldn't they? Maybe she'll be the one to marry Lawrence, since they all keep bringing it up.

I actually expected Janine to ask what would happen to Putnam's kids; I was surprised she didn't.

9 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

It only took a couple of days for Serena to see where things were heading for her, a prisoner in someone's home, being told what to eat, when to eat, when to rest, etc...she became very worried about her freedoms and was plotting her escape, does she see any parallel in her life and the one all the Handmaids, Martha's and Unwomen were forced to live?

As soft as I am on Serena, I doubt it. I think that, in her mind, the distinction isn't suffering vs not suffering, it's deserved suffering vs undeserved suffering. She thinks she's a good and important person, so she doesn't deserve to suffer, and her suffering is wrong. She thinks the handmaids were bad, unimportant people, so their suffering was deserved, and that made it right. Totally different things.

9 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Will June have to deliver Serena's baby?

Oh, yes. Now that you've said it, I'm sure this will happen.

6 hours ago, AntFTW said:

This part I get. The activity of catching people and sending them back to Gilead happens in No Man's Land, I understand that part. However, his house is in Canada. His wife and other assets are in Canada.

What I am not understanding is how is he able to do that from Canada? Are the people on the ground from Gilead or Canada? How are they being paid, because I imagine they are not doing this for free? Is Wheeler paying salaries from Canada? Is Gilead funding it and letting Wheeler call the shots from Canada?

Well... we've learned that no man's land is a magical place where you can commit murder and Canada doesn't care, so maybe they don't care about whatever this guy's doing either? It seems kind of fantastical to me that everyone's allowed to just step across the border into this other territory and do whatever, but it's internally consistent so far, I guess.

2 hours ago, crashdown said:

June might have done something very, very dumb in naming Nick and Joseph as her allies to Wheeler's guys. We'll see if that gets dropped or becomes an important plot point later.

I also thought it was dumb for her to say her own name. Like, why not even try to lie and say you're someone else? But I bet the thing where she asked for Lawrence and Nick will get ignored.

[iMonrey]

So one minute Mrs. Wheeler has Serena on such a tight leash she's not even allowed to go outside for a walk, and the next minute Mr. Wheeler is giving Serena leave to go across the border with one guard to witness a murder. Huh? I mean, one might rationalize this dichotomy by saying Mrs. Wheeler is more strict about Serena's grounding than Mr. Wheeler but they went to a lot of trouble to set up a birthing room upstairs to insure Serena never had to leave the house. Clearly Serena feels like she's their prisoner, I just thought it was a little too easy for her to get out of there.

I know there's also going to be a debate about when exactly Serena decided to turn the gun on her guard rather than on June. Some will say it's after she heard June's prayer for their children but I think it was her plan all along. The minute she asked the guard to untie June's hands I knew where this was going.

Where I don't know where they're going is . . . where they're going. How the hell do either of them know which way is Canada? All Serena told June to do was drive. They could be headed straight back towards Gilead for all they know. I didn't see any road signs.

Quote

When the doctor asks Serena to dinner he says "My Martha makes a great cedar planked salmon."  How the heck can he have a Martha?  They're in Canada!

A poster above suggests he has a housekeeper he calls a Martha but I hope he doesn't call her that to her face. Unless he has a captive slave at his home I can't imagine anyone willingly becoming a "Martha" for him. They don't get paid. Or maybe it's some crazy Gilead fangirl living out some sick fantasy of being a Martha. Who knows?

Edited October 12, 2022 by iMonrey

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Whimsy said:

So, obviously Serena is in labor and panicked. I fully believe the Wheeler’s were going to take that baby somehow. I just don’t really get what her plan is now, though. June will never be her ally.  

I think she wants June to get her to the closest Canadian hospital, where she can give birth and seek asylum. Her stint at the Wheelers was a wake-up call that she really doesn't want the Gilead life anymore. I think her main motivation for shooting Ezra and rescuing June was not for June's sake but her own, to get away from the Wheelers.

I have the feeling though that they won't reach the hospital in time and Serena will give birth on the side of the road with June assisting.

[Whimsy]

2 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I think she wants June to get her to the closest Canadian hospital, where she can give birth and seek asylum. Her stint at the Wheelers was a wake-up call that she really doesn't want the Gilead life anymore. I think her main motivation for shooting Ezra and rescuing June was not for June's sake but her own, to get away from the Wheelers.

I have the feeling though that they won't reach the hospital in time and Serena will give birth on the side of the road with June assisting.

This makes perfect sense. I’m sure you’re right. 

[greekmom]

The gyno lab/birthing room in the house was super creepy.

Poor Esther the girl has been abused and used by everyone. Girl cannot catch a break. Aunt Lydia is still her delusional self about the whole Handmaid thing and the moral fiber of these women. 

Lawrence continues to baffle me. Who he was prior to Gilead. Why he thought Gilead was such a great idea (he was the architect of the society as i remember). Where his loyalties lie and why he's so gung ho for Gilead when he doesn't even subscribe to the religion, the lifestyle or attitude of the other Commanders. 

Serena continues to be stupid.  She was just widowed. She could use that as an excuse to Mrs. Wheeler to buy time.  She could have just said: "I don't feel that I have honoured Fred's memory enough as of yet. Give me time regarding Dr. Landry." Geez louise. 

Why are there men serving at the restaurant where the Putmans are eating breakfast? I mean it's Gilead. Even Economen wouldn't be doing that type of work - would they?

What I dont understand is why it seems that Esther can remember prior to Gilead while the Eye who was killed last week seemed older than Esther but can barely remember before Gilead.

I wonder if Serea's kid is the prize for loyalty from Gilead to the Wheelers. I mean Serena doesn't belong in Gilead anymore.  It would be a way to get rid of Serena and reward the Wheelers.
 

[lavenderblue]

10 hours ago, crashdown said:

I was also thinking that there have been exactly two times in this show that Serena seemed like a regular person to me and not a crazy religious zealot. One was in that episode where she went to her mother's house after burning up her home when she said "I'm don't want to hang out with your friends, mom." The other was in this current episode, when she said "I'm not going to date my gynecologist."  Normal reactions from a normal person both!

Related, there was also my favorite line delivery of the episode, when she's taken to the "exam room" and says something like "I...had no idea this was up here!"

[ctmd]

When Nick and June were split up, and then June was taken off the bus, I was CERTAIN that Serena was going to kill Luke in front of her. That would be "eye for an eye" behavior, right? But as soon as Serena had the gun, I knew either she would shoot Ezra, or June would somehow get the gun and shoot Ezra. 

I think Serena dying in labor and June keeping the baby would be some just kismet. 

Finally, I loved June's prayer for the girls at the end. I'm not a religious person, in part because i so often see selfishness in the guise of religion. Altruistic prayers for your children (and others) to have a peace and safety is how I imagine religion SHOULD be. 

[Bluesky]

4 hours ago, Whimsy said:

So, obviously Serena is in labor and panicked. I fully believe the Wheeler’s were going to take that baby somehow. I just don’t really get what her plan is now, though. June will never be her ally.  

She’ll be her ally if Serena helps her get her oldest daughter back and knocks off the annoying religious shit.   Serena might have some valuable information on where the future wives are being kept.  
They sure do make the Canadian government look like a bunch of idiot hicks. It would be like North Korea conducting their business in Idaho and the US having no idea. 

[aghst]

13 hours ago, AntFTW said:

So Wheeler has a whole border patrol apparatus that smuggles people into Gilead, and he's in Canada? How exactly would he get away with something like that?

I didn't read any spoilers but I definitely felt like you can see that coming from a mile away.

Not only that, the doctor works for University of Toronto but he has a Martha?  I guess they decided to build a mini Gilead in Canada since June and Serena were going to be spending some time there.

Then you have that dragon lady Alanis telling Serena, “fuck your feelings, you gonna get your ass married.  That’s final, go to your room.”

But Serena made some googley eyes at Wheeler and got him to let her go to watch the execution.

I’d forgotten that Putnam had been horribly punished before.  But a summary execution and some middle of the night proceeding to condemn him to death?  What a fucked up place, if it’s that easy for rivals to kill a leader.  But he had a way of annoying people, just like Spyros in Billions.

How does Lawrence not only not get punished for helping June but still be part of the leadership?

Yeah Serena was suffering a death of a thousand little cuts.  That snotty Alanis talking down to her was the final straw.  But it would be a leap if she thought she was striking a blow for woman’s rights or something.
 

[madpsych78]

I keep thinking the fertility issue is perhaps less of an issue now if three characters are pregnant at once (granted, Esther just became preggo and Serena is about to pop, but still).

Gilead influence is infiltrating Canada. The difference is that they haven't overtaken the Canadian government at this point.

[greekmom]

7 hours ago, aghst said:

Not only that, the doctor works for University of Toronto but he has a Martha?  I guess they decided to build a mini Gilead in Canada since June and Serena were going to be spending some time there.

As a few above have pointed out, he could just be calling his staff 'Marthas' when referring to them in his circle. He could work for U of T and be ultra conservative and pro Gilead but keep it to himself, his home and circle of friends.  You don't have to declare your political feelings when applying for a job and as long as you don't let your feelings/politics bleed into your job - you are safe.  I just wonder how he deals with the female students in his class since he is pro Gilead and how that has not affected his work. 

I think the small fringe group of pro Gilead is suppose to represent the small fringe group of ultra conservatives that are currently in Canada and the United States?

[HMFan]

On 10/12/2022 at 3:09 AM, chocolatine said:

So Wheeler has a whole team of border vigilantes who roam No Man's Land catching people who are trying to make it out of Gilead and taking them back. If he's such a Gilead loyalist, why not give up his cushy life in democratic Canada and move there with his wife? What a hypocritical piece of shit.

Did I understand correctly that Lawrence didn't care one iota about Putnam raping Esther and only had him executed because Putnam opposed the New Bethlehem plan? I know Lawrence has a lot of fans here, but I've never thought of him as a good guy. He only does things that further his agenda.

I knew that Serena would shoot Ezra because (a) I'd read spoilers, and (b) June's plot armor means she can't die yet. It looked like she shot him in a place that was covered by a bullet-proof vest, because the bullet didn't penetrate, so she must have been hedging her bets to not completely burn bridges with the Wheelers and Gilead, and only temporarily incapacitated Ezra instead of killing or injuring him.

Creepy gynecologist said something about Serena's blood pressure being elevated, so I wonder whether she'll have pre-eclampsia and die in childbirth. She already seemed to be in distress in the car on the way to meet June.

ETA: I wonder what happens to Naomi and Charlotte now after Putnam's very public execution. I really want Janine to be reunited with Charlotte by the end of the show (much more than I want June to be reunited with Hannah), so hopefully Charlotte doesn't get reassigned to an out-of-town commander's family. I don't see Naomi being allowed to keep Charlotte and continue living in the style to which she's accustomed. She's too old and unattractive for Jezebels, and doesn't seem to have the housekeeping skills to be a Martha. The best she can hope for is becoming an Aunt, but colonies are more likely if Lawrence and Nick want to wipe all traces of Putnam. Naomi doesn't have Serena's negotiation skills, so she can only hope the commanders pity her enough to spare her from the colonies.

Like most of the characters, Lawrence always talks in code.  It was almost like he was prodding Lydia saying....oh Commander Putnam raped her? It really doesn't matter, because that's what the ceremony does anyway, just under a different misnomer. I wonder if Lydia will ever come to this realization.

Naomi is now a widow. Maybe they'll make her marry Lawrence or Lawrence marry her.

I never remember Serena being able to go to a nice country estate and enjoy a regular breakfast out of the house.

Nick and Lawrence had to get rid of Putnam to begin a cleanse.  Lawrence knew Putnam would be a braggart, and was using Nick as a witness so they could cleanly. Can't have multiple commanders disappear into No Man's Land. 

Why they were going to take out Esther's uterus is beyond me.  Can't do anything with it when it's removed.

You know damn well Serena is rethinking turning down asylum.  She'll likely flee back to Canada saying she saved June, in order to curry favor and try to use the knowledge she gained while at the Wheeler's to her advantage.

[HMFan]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:09 AM, Baltimore Betty said:

It only took a couple of days for Serena to see where things were heading for her, a prisoner in someone's home, being told what to eat, when to eat, when to rest, etc...she became very worried about her freedoms and was plotting her escape, does she see any parallel in her life and the one all the Handmaids, Martha's and Unwomen were forced to live?  Serena wasn't going to kill June, that would be too easy.

Lawrence saw the irony of Putnam raping Esther verses Aunt Lydia painting the monthly rapes as being nearer to G-d, Lawrence did not like Putnam and the fact that he opposed the New Bethlehem plan punishing him for the rape was a very convenient way to get rid of Putnam. I thought the commanders were all about trial, process and sentencing like they did when they cut off Putnam's arm, why the public execution with no trial, not that the outcome would be different.

Will June have to deliver Serena's baby?  I think the gynecologist possibly lied to Serena about her blood pressure, gas lighting her in to thinking she had to rest more, keeping her docile and locked up in the House of Wheeler's Home for Popular Fascist Women.

What will happen to Esther's baby now that Putnam is dead, they certainly will not let the Widow Putnam keep the baby not like she wants it anyway.

Janine had a good day in Gilead.

They said Putnam had a trial. He wasn't invited to it.  That's why everyone in the restaurant was looking at Putnam weird.  The "high court" convened a late night session the night before -- after Lawrence and Nick obtained a friendly confession by using Putnam's bragging nature against him.

[circumvent]

Can we bash the fact the the writers un-creatively call that place "no man's land"  and have the people there wear bandanas on their faces just like the old bad western movies? Seriously? It feels like a bad shout out to who knows what.

The June-Luke interaction in the cages was the most cheesy/boring/no-chemistry at all thing in the episode. 

[HMFan]

On 10/12/2022 at 9:10 AM, Helena Dax said:

Oooh, I liked this episode! It was a bit slow at first and I could have done without the scenes with June and Luke in jail, but I loved everything else. First, I'm so happy to see Putnam go. I guess the story doesn't need him anymore, now that we have two new baddies, Mr. Wheeler and Hannah's "dad" (Mackenzie?). Honestly, I can't believe the guy didn't learn to keep his prick inside his trousers after losing an arm because of it! And good for aunt Lydia. She said she was going to take better care of the Handmaids and she did. She's a true believer and I think that's why Lawrence didn't show her his cards when she went to talk to him. She'll never compromise and he needs to compromise sometimes. Now, if Putnam had supported Lawrence's plan, perhaps L. would have ignored the accusation because in his head, New Bethlehem is the better good, but since Putnam was against it, the rape was the perfect excuse to get rid of him.

And poor Esther. It's easier to understand now why she tried to attack Janine. Kudos to the actress, because she was terrific in her scene in the hospital.

And Serena! Not exactly a surprise, but a welcome twist. I mean, by now she was fully aware of how fucked her situation was, so no way was she going to blow her only chance to become free and keep the baby. Besides, perhaps this time she had finally started to realize that June had a point. She doesn't trust June, but she wanted her alive, even if it's only to good look in front of the Canadians and the US government.

Now hopefully Serena and June will tell the Canadians about Wheeler's operation. Since he's doing it he in No Man's Land, there's probably nothing they can do from a legal pov, but at least they'll know what kind of creepy snake he is, and if he's planning to overthrow the Canadian government and turn it into Gilead 2.0, that's treason and he could be sent to jail.

Or they could give the Wheeler's the option to willing leave Canada and move to Gilead, but it seems Mrs. Wheeler likes her cushy life, and probably wouldn't do well as a wife in Gilead unless the dial Gilead back considerably.

22 hours ago, Redrum said:

I mean, there never really was any going back to begin with so hopefully this ends the Serena tries to resume life in Gilead stuff. But it won't, I fear. 

Except that Lawrence and Esther both made the very valid point that Lydia is still absolutely down for Handmaid raping.  Make no mistake - her objection was that Esther concieved outside the formal rape ceremony The plan was for Esther to be handed to Putnam for formal raping and Lydia IS pleased about the baby. That 14 year old rape victim Esther will be forced to bear. The end result of all of this is that Lydia will continue to hand over Handmaids for formal rape ceremonies. Not that Lydia will stop the raping.

Agreed and thats why he poked at her beliefs and made the point that Esther did - ultimately Esther getting raped and pregnant was the plan.  Lawrence wants New Bethelham because he's realizing that Gilead as is can't last for long

Thats a good question.

How could a doctor who has a Martha get appointed to the Board of a Toronto hospital?

[HMFan]

17 minutes ago, HMFan said:

They said Putnam had a trial. He wasn't invited to it.  That's why everyone in the restaurant was looking at Putnam weird.  The "high court" convened a late night session the night before -- after Lawrence and Nick obtained a friendly confession by using Putnam's bragging nature against him.

I disagree. I think it showed exactly what Luke feels guilty about, how he would have handled being there instead of getting out, how June really had completely normalized it but didn't realize it, and how Serena got in his head. Now that Luke has seen a small portion of what June went through, perhaps he can quit expecting her just to snap back into being normal.

[Redrum]

1 hour ago, HMFan said:

How could a doctor who has a Martha get appointed to the Board of a Toronto hospital?

I assume he doesn't brag about the Gilead love at work. 

[circumvent]

3 hours ago, HMFan said:

Like most of the characters, Lawrence always talks in code.

I find the character very annoying. I liked him better when he was brooding and worrying about his wife. Now he is all smirks and sarcasm, a Gilead version of Josh Lyman, who was already a pain to watch. 

[lucindabelle]

In fairness to Lydia I DO think having the ceremony at the handmaids abode would be better for them. They wouldn’t be slaves in the wife’s home, doing the shopping, etc. the whole system is repulsive but Lydia’s suggestion definitely makes it more ceremonial, which is her point.

i think Lawrence was always going to punish Putnam, as soon as Aunt Lydia said so, but he holds his cards.

[ww92]

It makes no sense that Serena didn't  kill Ezra. If she'd killed him and then gotten caught with June later on she could claim that June killed him, forced Serena to go with her and held her captive until she gave birth,  with the intention of stealing her newborn son as revenge for having her children taken from her in Gilead. But no, Ezra will live to tell everyone the truth, thus moving the plot along.

Also, I just looked  up the episode on IMDB because I couldn't remember the guard's name (I kept thinking  Eric but I knew that was wrong) and discovered that he's played by someone  named Rossif Sutherland and that his father  is Donald Sutherland (and Kiefer is his half brother)!

[steph369]

On 10/12/2022 at 5:13 AM, circumvent said:

thru the ever increasing No Man's Land. 

It’s going to be a small country by the time its borders are revealed. 

[HMFan]

On 10/13/2022 at 9:12 AM, HMFan said:

Like most of the characters, Lawrence always talks in code.  It was almost like he was prodding Lydia saying....oh Commander Putnam raped her? It really doesn't matter, because that's what the ceremony does anyway, just under a different misnomer. I wonder if Lydia will ever come to this realization.

Naomi is now a widow. Maybe they'll make her marry Lawrence or Lawrence marry her.

I never remember Serena being able to go to a nice country estate and enjoy a regular breakfast out of the house.

Nick and Lawrence had to get rid of Putnam to begin a cleanse.  Lawrence knew Putnam would be a braggart, and was using Nick as a witness so they could cleanly. Can't have multiple commanders disappear into No Man's Land. 

Why they were going to take out Esther's uterus is beyond me.  Can't do anything with it when it's removed.

You know damn well Serena is rethinking turning down asylum.  She'll likely flee back to Canada saying she saved June, in order to curry favor and try to use the knowledge she gained while at the Wheeler's to her advantage.

I just went back and watched the episode again, after Lydia tells Lawrence about the rape, and he responded in the manner he did kinda poking at Lydia, she responded:

"You mock God's word and defend a rapist."

Lawrence gives her a look like, you don't? Like inferring no matter what you call it, it's rape.

Then he says, watch it Lydia.

All of this handmaid drama could easily go away if they would simply offer to pay women to have babies for the idiots that can't have them without being raped.  If they're so worried about protecting the population, why not inscentive having babies, instead of enforcing the ones why a woman would not want to bring her child into a world of slavery, harsh punishment, child rape, and no joy.

Edited October 14, 2022 by HMFan