S05.E05: Fairytale

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, Anela said:

Yes. We saw her with Fred, at the movies, all excited as the coup started.  

Yep. Terrorists shouldn’t get special treatment. 

[jenn31]

“They don’t give up. Even with the shit they’ve been through.” 

Moira forgot to add “No matter how many people die because of it.”

Making heroes of June and Luke. God, this writing. 

19 hours ago, dmc said:

I’m not entirely sure I understand what June and Luke are doing. I definitely am on board with the getting Hannah back but with a concrete plan. 

There’s never a concrete plan with June. That’s why so many people get killed because of her. We have one guy dead already in this new venture. The body count continues. 

[steph369]

On 10/5/2022 at 2:10 AM, Cinnabon said:

I laughed out loud when Putnam hung up on Serena. 😆 So much for that “power” some seemed to think she had.

You’ll never be allowed to play with the big boys, Serena.

Putnam is so vile. Now we know why Mrs. Putnam is always walking around with a pinched face. But how in Heavens did Janine ever fall in love with him?! Stockholm Syndrome, I guess. (If I’m remembering correctly, he was her first posting and she believed he loved her too, and that they’d run away together with their baby. Until she realized none of it was true and decided to try jump off a bridge. Or was that another Commander?) 

[goldilocks]

4 hours ago, aghst said:

Seemed inevitable that June was going to end up back in Gilead because of Hanna.

Here we go again. Who was it that wrote last week that their spouse said (paraphrasing), “June escapes, June gets caught. June escapes, June gets caught… “ 😀

[steph369]

5 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

This wasn’t “rescuing,” it was kidnapping. Including potentially murdering anyone who got in the way. She also supported the terrorist attack on DC.

Of course it wasn’t. But as the OP said, Serena thought it was a good idea. People often do think one way until they step into another’s shoes. Then their viewpoint usually changes. I do hope people upthread are right and that Serena is eventually forced to become a handmaid. Let’s see how good an idea she finds the handmaid solution then.

[greekmom]

I wonder if there is a significance of the two shades of teal that Serena and Mrs. Putman wear.  Serena's is more blue while Mrs. Putmans is more green.

[TV Anonymous]

So June and Luke are back in Gilead? I do not feel like watching this show anymore, but it is just one and a half more seasons to go, I have gone this far... Honestly, I almost stopped watching, but because June managed to escape I continued. I could not endure Gilead anymore.

Who are Mr. and Mrs. Wheeler? Are they Canadians sympathetic to Gilead's ideology or are they Gileadians who own major property in Ontario? Mr. Wheeler does not look like he has confidence of a wealthy man.

I understand why Canadians do not like Giledians or Americans. For them, Gilead or United States is certainly a domestic matter. Why Canada and Canadians need to be implicated? Taking into account the way Giledian refugees behaving, the resentment is very much understandable.

[Baltimore Betty]

2 hours ago, greekmom said:

I wonder if there is a significance of the two shades of teal that Serena and Mrs. Putman wear.  Serena's is more blue while Mrs. Putmans is more green.

I have noticed that as well, is it a ranking thing as in which husband is higher up on the chain of command?

Serena certainly got her Gilead maternity wear wardrobe pulled together quickly, appropriate for work and play. Are there factories in Gilead that are churning out all the uniforms for handmaids, Martha's, etc...but then they have things like a Commanders funeral and poof everyone has the correct outfit for their role, tailored and coordinated.

Do we know for a fact that Gilead have captured June and Luke? I think there might be a twist, like it is Nick's people because if it is Gilead they would be killed and put on the wall before daylight, right?

Lydia trying to change the Handmaid process is not going to work, Joseph told her to not change a thing, what would be her next step? Are the show writers going to stick to the second book that was recently written?

[Shermie]

10 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

11 hours ago, Shermie said:

The morality part of rescuing children from unfit mothers so they can be raised in proper homes seemed like a good idea to her too

This wasn’t “rescuing,” it was kidnapping. Including potentially murdering anyone who got in the way. She also supported the terrorist attack on DC.

Well, we know that, but I was posting it as how Serena and her ilk were thinking.

Quote

Serena certainly got her Gilead maternity wear wardrobe pulled together quickly, appropriate for work and play. Are there factories in Gilead that are churning out all the uniforms for handmaids, Martha's, etc...but then they have things like a Commanders funeral and poof everyone has the correct outfit for their role, tailored and coordinated.

That’s called TV Fashion. Where someone dies and everyone suddenly has beautiful stylish black dresses and hats and suits. Or a Halloween episode where everyone has top shelf costumes. Or someone throws a theme party and everyone shows up dressed to the nines in the theme. Even if they’re broke or living in a tiny apartment, they all have a magic closet.

Edited October 6, 2022 by Shermie

[iMonrey]

Quote

Yeah they spent hours for the kid instead of taking maybe 5 minutes.  Because they wanted to build suspense and pad the episode a bit?

I think the point was to give June and Luke this one moment of peace and happiness so it would be that much worse when they were caught and whatever horrors await them now. 

Quote

So June and Luke are back in Gilead? I do not feel like watching this show anymore, but it is just one and a half more seasons to go, I have gone this far... Honestly, I almost stopped watching, but because June managed to escape I continued. I could not endure Gilead anymore.

The problem for me is that they were stuck in this cycle where June almost escapes or is given a chance to escape and doesn't and just keeps getting re-captured. They kept hitting that reset button for three whole seasons. I almost didn't bother with the fourth until I read ahead and found out she finally made it to Canada. So having her back in Gilead just feels like yet another reset.

I've always felt like they didn't know what to do with the story once they exhausted the book material in Season 1. It's sort of been rehash ever since.

[Redrum]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

The problem for me is that they were stuck in this cycle where June almost escapes or is given a chance to escape and doesn't and just keeps getting re-captured. They kept hitting that reset button for three whole seasons. I almost didn't bother with the fourth until I read ahead and found out she finally made it to Canada. So having her back in Gilead just feels like yet another reset.

Made more irritating that they will likely spend a lot of energy on making it so difficult for June to escape.... even though she and everyone else has been trotting thru no man's land like its a superhighway 

Honestly Escape From Gilead has been done.

[tennisgurl]

Ever read "The Yellow Wallpaper" Serena? Just curious. I know that Mr. Putnam is super evil, but I laughed my ass off when he hung up on Serena, I might have re-watched that a few times just to see the look on her face. Serena is still convinced that, despite Gilead being founded on the idea of abusing and suppressing woman, that she's going to be the exception, even when its clear that she isn't. Serena chose this, she was in on the plot to murder the American government and take over from the start, but every time she starts having to face those consequences personally she starts making sad eyes, cry me a river. 

That was certainly a whole lot of nothing until the very end, and even then we know pretty much how this ends. June will get caught then June will escape, just like every time she gets caught, usually leaving countless bodies in her wake. I am guessing that Luke will make it out too, this show refuses to actually kill off major characters, but he might die if they want to give June some extra angst that will finally lead to her snapping. What was even the plan? They went all the way to no mans land just to lean what they already know? Hannah is at wife school and is being treated like a pretty princess who will get married off to some important guy and be a Wife, they needed all of this for that? Was June planning on running off to stare at Hannah in her new school and then wait to get caught? Again? What new information do they have now? How has this helped Hannah? As usual, June never has any kind of plan, she just flails about getting other people killed, most recently the young guard, with her carelessness while she always manages to get away with minimal harm. 

Who exactly is watching Nicole? The poor thing, her whole family ran off on a pointless dangerous mission, possibly leaving her an orphan. 

I know that this show has never been great about world building, to put it mildly, but I still have no idea what the deal is with all of these Gilead Girls and this creepy family that Serena is with. Is it all about pregnancy and the sterility plague that is hardly mentioned? Because no way would these people be thrilled to see the real Gilead, which is the suckiest lamest place in the world. Who are the Wheelers? Are they sympathetic Canadians or Americans who left when Gilead came about but then changed their minds? Serena is absolutely getting her baby taken from her, karma is a real mother fucker. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by tennisgurl

[Baltimore Betty]

I have a funny feeling that the fertility center that Putnam would want would be akin to Jezebel's and handmaids than a real fertility clinic, like that baby making factory Lydia was taking June and Co. when they made a break for it and the train took out a few handmaids on the run.

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, TV Anonymous said:

So June and Luke are back in Gilead? I do not feel like watching this show anymore, but it is just one and a half more seasons to go, I have gone this far... Honestly, I almost stopped watching, but because June managed to escape I continued. I could not endure Gilead anymore.

Who are Mr. and Mrs. Wheeler? Are they Canadians sympathetic to Gilead's ideology or are they Gileadians who own major property in Ontario? Mr. Wheeler does not look like he has confidence of a wealthy man.

I understand why Canadians do not like Giledians or Americans. For them, Gilead or United States is certainly a domestic matter. Why Canada and Canadians need to be implicated? Taking into account the way Giledian refugees behaving, the resentment is very much understandable.

I tend to be very sympathetic to refugees escaping christofascist terrorists. 🤷‍♀️

[kitkat343]

19 hours ago, Shermie said:

Interesting.

As is Serena. Though heinous, I find her a fascinating character. You get the Mrs. Putnams and Mrs. Wheelers that just suck up the lifestyle and do as they’re told, but Serena was a successful career woman before Gilead. She probably went along with the Gilead concept because she thought she’d continue to be a powerful part of it, helping to run it like she ran her business. The morality part of rescuing children from unfit mothers so they can be raised in proper homes seemed like a good idea to her too. You could see her look of disapproval when Mrs. Putnam turned her nose up at adopting a brown child, when Serena just wanted a child.

If Serena wanted to adopt one of the older children of color, she would have done so.  We saw Aunt Lydia fawning over her when it was time to select a handmaid so the people at the orphanage would have happily handed over any child she selected.

 Serena said something like the poor dears they really need a good home - meaning someone else's good home (families less powerful and privileged than hers).  She totally supported ripping the traumatized children away from their parents and having them adopted by "fit" families - families like Nick's first wife's farm family.  An older child of color would be unlikely to be adopted into a Commander's home and raised to be a Wife; these children were probably adopted by families loyal to the state religion but lacking in power.  The Commanders would adopt infants/younger children who won't remember their biological families well or have handmaids (the handmaids are all white in the books; ethnically diverse in this series, but we've seen some families refuse to accept handmaids of color).  

[SourK]

8 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I think the point was to give June and Luke this one moment of peace and happiness so it would be that much worse when they were caught and whatever horrors await them now.

The happier they were, the more afraid I was for Luke. Purely for meta reasons; not because the show built tension. June isn't going to die yet, so it felt like they were fattening him up to be more depressing in death.

One thing I thought about again in this episode -- I think I get that they're trying to make June the more stereotypically masculine person in this marriage and Luke the more stereotypically feminine -- and I don't hate it -- but it's also not quite landing for me, and I don't know why.

[Kel Varnsen]

On 10/5/2022 at 12:59 PM, crashdown said:

Fnally, who's paying the electric bill of the abandoned bowling alley, anyway?

Speaking of electricity,  if those power lines and towers were in Gilead,  why have they not been sabotaged?

Also while not getting to political, I live in Ottawa and I thought it was funny that there was a big rig truck parked to the side as part of the anti-refugee protest.

[cuppasun]

19 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

This reminds me so much of the Patriarchy movement and Quiverfull:  They espouse women keeping at home, bearing children, etc but their female proponents write books, go on lecture tours, tv interviews, etc out 'in the world' and have all kinds of freedoms that the women they are preaching to do not have. Serena is the fictional version of these women, career woman who wrote books and went on lecture tours touting how great it would be if women (not them of course) stayed home and just kept quiet and gave up all autonomy to the men. Serena never expected to be subject to the thing she espoused.

Well, the character of Serena Joy was originally based on the real anti-feminist/"traditional values" champion Phyllis Schlafly, because that's exactly what her role and impact were (she was a primary reason the ERA never passed) and she absolutely believed she would continue to be the special exception...until she was shunted aside when the menfolk took over (basically once they got Reagan successfully elected). That woman was vile in the exact same ways Serena is. Look, I don't wish bigotry-based oppression on anyone from a marginalized group... but it's awfully difficult to conjure up sympathy for people who are (for all intents and purposes) willing collaborators with the oppressors.

[Redrum]

1 hour ago, kitkat343 said:

 An older child of color would be unlikely to be adopted into a Commander's home and raised to be a Wife; these children were probably adopted by families loyal to the state religion but lacking in power.

In fairness, Hannah is absolutely a child of color adopted into a high ranking Commander's home and raised to be a Wife. 

[lucindabelle]

As my mom says (she’s 90)

she escapes she gets caught

she escapes again

she gets caught again 

jadin (excellent name Btw I teach hs and have 3) reminded me so much of an eerie scene in Logan’s run or trelayne in Star Trek. But in the end he didn’t betray them although as others have pointed out the thumb drive could have been handed overZ I think he desperately wanted company.

so pure?

huh?

In Shakespeare’s day women got married young- maybe not 12 typically (or the consummation would be delayed)- but I’m inclined to think that they’re overreacting to the concept of the school and also incredibly stupid not to have predicted its existence in a society so focused on reproduction

why is Putnam calling what Lawrence said “a speech”? Isn’t it obvious that gilead is not self sustaining?

(despite the magical factories that make clothing and batteries etc and get a funeral together on no notice)

[Redrum]

1 minute ago, lucindabelle said:

In Shakespeare’s day women got married young- maybe not 12 typically (or the consummation would be delayed)- but I’m inclined to think that they’re overreacting to the concept of the school and also incredibly stupid not to have predicted its existence in a society so focused on reproduction

I'm more surprised that June didn't seem more aware - Esther was a Wife at 14 and June met Esther.

12 is way too young for modern times but Juliet of Romeo and Juliet was 12. 

I don't think Luke and June are overreacting in that married at 12 means their daughter will be having adult intercourse at 12 but... I do question a plan that seems to be "1. Cross the boarder! 2. Collect Underpants! 3. ??????? 4. And then Hannah is rescued!

[lucindabelle]

Juliet is 12, but Shakespeare’s play is  it set during his time. In Elizabethan England few women were wives and mothers at 13- henry iv mother was and everyone  Eli ever it made her funny in the head (and a religious maniac). Anyway, I’m just surprised they’re surprised, and I also feel like by now Hannah is pretty well indoctrinated and though I understand heir concern they have not thought this through.

i still want to see some of these adult wives and commanders wake up humming a Beatles song or showtune or throw a ball like a football by accident. It’s one thing for Mrs Putnam to sneer at the old country when it had JUST happened. You can’t tell me that at times raising Angela she hasn’t desperately wished for cheerios.

[Bluesky]

On 10/5/2022 at 12:59 PM, crashdown said:

Third, when they meet poor adorable Jaden, he refuses to talk to them out in the open because it's too dangerous and instead leads them into his secret abandoned bowling alley (presumably in Gilead, since he says it's where he hangs when he's on guard duty, but that's not entirely clear--it might still be in No Man's Land). However, he never has much to say to them beyond "it's a school"; he just gives them a thumb drive. He could have handed them that thumb drive out in the open and NOT taken them to the bowling alley in the first place. (And if school locations aren't on that thumb drive, just what IS there--the best recipes for rosemary lemon roast chicken and the secrets of cultivating roses?)

Finally, who's paying the electric bill of the abandoned bowling alley, anyway?

Maybe he was lonely and in desperate need of company.  
When they first showed SerenA I thought cool Jeans. Then , wait a minute how is she wearing them.  That’s like blasphemy in Gilead.    Serena has been so stupid in all this. What made her think they would allow her to walk with men being all important. She saw herself as some kind of exception? Boy was she wrong. They will never allow Serena to raise a boy without a Gilead male. That baby will be whisked away within hours.  

[kitkat343]

13 hours ago, Redrum said:

In fairness, Hannah is absolutely a child of color adopted into a high ranking Commander's home and raised to be a Wife. 

13 hours ago, Redrum said:

 An older child of color would be unlikely to be adopted into a Commander's home and raised to be a Wife; these children were probably adopted by families loyal to the state religion but lacking in power.

My reasoning here in stating that an older child of color would be unlikely to be adopted into a commander's home  is a little confusing.  In the  Hulu show, Hannah was born in 2009, and the US government was overthrown in 2014 (at least according to the wiki page.  I can't remember if this is true).  That would put Hannah at about 5 when she was placed for adoption.  I'd believe that's probably about the limit as to how old of a child would be adopted by a higher ranking family who has alternatives like Handmaids. Usually, adoptive families want infants or young children, so I'd think it would be unlikely most of the older children (especially those of color) in the orphanage would go to commander's homes, but I would think that given the overall shortage of births and adoptable infants, the older children we saw at the orphanage would eventually be placed at "fit" but less powerful homes like Nick's first wife's home.  Hannah was "lucky" enough to be young enough she was more likely to be adopted into a commander's home but I don't know if that would have happened for an older child.  But that is purely my speculation.  One of the protagonists in The Testaments was a child taken from her birth mother who had been reassigned as a handmaid; the child was young enough to have no memory of her birth mother and found out she was adopted after rumors spread about her in school.

Edited October 7, 2022 by kitkat343

[MichaelaRae]

If this is setting up for Serena to be Handmaided by the Wheelers (at least in the baby-stealing way - as of right now, she’s not being raped every month or beaten), I am Here. 👏 For. 👏 It. 👏 It has been my strongest wish for this show that Serena have her privileges stripped away and she face every single thing she not only LET happen to other women, but helped MAKE happen. Not even remotely sorry for that opinion. I want her to reap exactly what she sowed. If she somehow gets to keep her baby, I will be furious. I am not even remotely surprised that privileged blonde rich lady Serena is shocked that the traditional-values, believe-in-the-bible-no-not-like-THAT-MY-way patriarchy she helped make isn’t making an exception for super special her, but I am loving that she’s getting a rude awakening. This entire show could just become the “Oh, hey, Serena, guess that thing didn’t work out the way you thought?”show with every episode exposing Serena to her own hypocrisy and privilege on just one thing and turning it all around on her. I would watch that on repeat.

Yes, Jaden could have passed off the thumb drive but a) it wasn’t a one-sided trade - he had backpacks to send back with them to Canada but b) I also believe he is desperately lonely and wanted some company, especially non-Gilead company. It probably isn’t safe to travel no man’s land by day so by bringing them back to his place until nightfall he gets the company and possibly keeps them all safer. Notice, he clearly took a different path to the border with June and Luke - he said “this way’s faster,” and sadly, that got him landmined. If they’d followed the map / path June and Luke used to get to him (which Rebel Cabin Lady said was designed specifically to avoid patrols), poor Jaden would likely still have his leg and June and Luke would likely be snuggling with Nicole (who is being watched by Rita - they said this right at the beginning). And also, he said the drive didn’t just have info on the curriculum or whatever, it was about the system and I believe he mentioned locations. So yeah, a little more valuable than what Nick told them.

Aunt Lydia, I thought you were smart - telling a Wife, who seems a little jealous about bringing a sex slave into her house, that a particular sex slave caught their Commander’s eye is exactly the opposite of how you get a sex slave placed. Duh.

Edited October 8, 2022 by MichaelaRae

[crashdown]

2 hours ago, MichaelaRae said:

And also, he said the drive didn’t just have info on the curriculum or whatever, it was about the system and I believe he mentioned locations. So yeah, a little more valuable than what Nick told them.

No, he explicitly said that it did NOT contain locations. Without that, I can’t see how it can be very useful.

[BrindaWalsh]

As far as I'm concerned the only thing of interest in this episode was the realization that Hannah probably would have no memory of life before Gilead and only remember June as this batshit crazy woman who keeps showing up by her bedside in the middle of night and getting hauled away. 

And I wanted to know where the kid got the beer, too.

The rest of it was boring and predictable.  Oh.  And what have they done with Moira?  Remember Moira of season 1?  Where is THAT woman?  Or traces of that woman?

[Quilt Fairy]

On 10/7/2022 at 7:14 PM, MichaelaRae said:

Aunt Lydia, I thought you were smart - telling a Wife, who seems a little jealous about bringing a sex slave into her house, that a particular sex slave caught their Commander’s eye is exactly the opposite of how you get a sex slave placed. Duh.

Oh, I think Aunt Lydia knew what she was doing. 

[HMFan]

It's interesting to see that where June was once a prisoner in Serena's home, Serena is starting to realize she is basically a prisoner in the Wheeler's home.  Meanwhile, had Serena's misjudgement in her abilities to manipulate people and situation in her lust for power, control, and importance in a world that refuses to recognize her not combined, she would be a free woman living freely but having to make her own way instead of relying upon the comforts controlled by men. She basically screwed herself by needing to taunt June, and she put herself back on the leash that Putnam how gets to yank.

Oddly I was watching the history channel the other day and realized that many controls and concepts applied in Gilead mimic that of Hitler's master plan with propaganda, women's rights, uniforms, spies, and the like. I never thought much of it until then.

Edited October 11, 2022 by HMFan

[Whimsy]

As a reminder, we have a strict Politics policy.  Posts have been removed due to political references that had nothing to do with this episode. 

[bettername2come]

I liked bowling alley guy. He reminded me of Timothee Chalamet. Who I was sure was doomed as soon as he told Luke his name since "names are dangerous." That was a good stunt, the way he spun around. 

"Whatever you want to do, that's all right with me - and also, I don't have much choice." That's a man who understands the relationship he's in.

[Beatriceblake]

I'm plodding on with this season. I found it hard to get past the fact June and Luke could apparently wander into No Man's Land in broad daylight but not leave again during daylight. It also seems like they should have had thoughts about why Jaden couldn't hand the flash drive over in the woods and send them on their way. Watching the episode it almost felt like he just wanted some company.

One fun thing to note for people who complain about all the lost time on close ups in episodes - usually in the UK, the recordings for these episodes from Channel 4 are about 1hr 20 but this latest one was just slightly over an hour so I don't know if this episode was shorter or if Channel 4 have started chopping bits of the episode. I'm kind of grateful if they did cut out the bits of June staring away in silence, it saves me having to fast forward.

Edited November 24, 2022 by Beatriceblake

[crashdown]

48 minutes ago, Beatriceblake said:

I'm plodding on with this season. I found it hard to get past the fact June and Luke could apparently wander into No Man's Land in broad daylight but not leave again during daylight. It also seems like they should have had thoughts about why Jaden couldn't hand the flash drive over in the woods and send them on their way. Watching the episode it almost felt like he just wanted some company.

It wasn't daylight. They left the Mayday folks at sunset.

[Dobian]

It was great seeing June finally add to her body count this season.  She was in a real dry spell going back to mid-season 4!