S05.E05: Fairytale

[Whimsy]

Quote

June and Luke embark on a dangerous quest. Serena gets to know her new hosts.

original airdate 10/5/22

[Redrum]

Well... this was a whole lot of nothing. 

For some not terribly defined reason - to get more info on "plums" aka Hannah's status as an almost wife, June and Luke both head into No Man's Land to meet with a somewhat shady Guardian who entices them to hang out with him for the day in his Gilead bowling alley. His reasoning for not giving them his info IN no man's land? Its daylight and not safe. However, his info is literally him handing over a flash drive so this could have totally been done in the woods in No Man's Land. Needless to say, Luke and June are captured. 

Moira and Asian woman running the resistance may be dating at the resistance shack. No idea who is watching Nicole. 

Serena hangs out at the increasingly restrictive and creepy Wheeler estate. There were some interesting flashbacks of Serena and a wife, maybe Mrs Putnam, viewing children snatched from bad parents that needed homes. Interestingly considering how race is somewhat ignored, most of the children are of color. 

Putnam and Lawrence have a tiff over New Bethleham. There are Canadians protesting the American refugees. It was slow. Sloooooow. 

[paulvdb]

32 minutes ago, Redrum said:

No idea who is watching Nicole.

Rita. June mentioned that at some point in the episode.

[Cinnabon]

I laughed out loud when Putnam hung up on Serena. 😆 So much for that “power” some seemed to think she had.

[Armchair Critic]

Moira’s face when June said she was going with Luke is all of us. 🙄

[NeenerNeener]

I wonder if the Wheelers are going to let Serena keep her baby, or if she's inadvertently made herself a Handmaid in Toronto. They obviously aren't going to let her run the fertility center. How many clue-by-fours does she have to get hit with before she'll admit to herself that Gilead was a bad idea?

This set up will probably result in June finding Hannah and getting her out. Luke's chances of living through this are 50/50.

[dmc]

Can I have a cell phone? 😂😂😂

This episode was a basket of ehhhs.  

I’m not entirely sure I understand what June and Luke are doing. I definitely am on board with the getting Hannah back but with a concrete plan. 

This is what I mean about Luke and June together.  

June and Nick together - great plan to kill Fred in No Man’s Land 🤍🤍🤍

June and Luke - wandering aimlessly over the border until a bomb blast 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Putnam hanging up on Serena mid sentence.  I rewound 10 times lol.  I plan to rewatch it another 20. 🙋‍♀️🙅‍♂️

The Wheelers are Defcon 1 creepy.  They are absolutely going to steal her baby.  Serena is definitely a prisoner there on work release to the Gilead center.  I still don’t understand why Serena cannot just write another book or find an occupation separate from Gilead.

Edited October 5, 2022 by dmc

[Fake Jan Brady]

Jaden may as well have been wearing a red shirt.

[crashdown]

2 hours ago, dmc said:

 I still don’t understand why Serena cannot just write another book or find an occupation separate from Gilead.

Of course she can; she just doesn’t want to. Yet. 

[dmc]

6 minutes ago, crashdown said:

Of course she can; she just doesn’t want to. Yet. 

yet is the key word 
 

How long till Serena realizes the Gilead Information center is a “fake” job to keep her busy and out of the Boys’ Club’s way and starts quiet quitting. She’s going to being playing computer solitaire soon…the Gilead Center seems like kind of place that blocks all social media applications and leaves mindsweeper.

[crashdown]

27 minutes ago, dmc said:

How long till Serena realizes the Gilead Information center is a “fake” job to keep her busy and out of the Boys’ Club’s way and starts quiet quitting.

It's certainly getting to the point where Serena either has to see that seeking asylum in Canada is her only option or she's an idiot. Why remain loyal to a bunch of patriarchal assholes? She can still set up her fertility center if she wants to; she doesn't need to do it under Gilead's umbrella. If the patriarchal assholes were at all as smart as they think they are, they'd give her more of a voice in the project: forcing her out of Gilead is going to do them a lot more harm in the end than letting her be somewhat of an "unusual woman."

[Redrum]

35 minutes ago, crashdown said:

If the patriarchal assholes were at all as smart as they think they are, they'd give her more of a voice in the project: forcing her out of Gilead is going to do them a lot more harm in the end than letting her be somewhat of an "unusual woman."

Well, honestly, why does Serena have any expectation of being allowed to do anything other than embroidery, gardening, and tending the house? I don't understand why - if we're supposed to buy into how Gilead feels women are wives and mothers and THATS IT - why Serena hasn't been told to reach down between her legs and realize there's no twig and berries down there, and to shut her female mouth. There's logically no reason for this to not be happening. There's no reason beyond enslaving her for the baby and then executing her for betraying Fred for Gilead to want Serena back.

Part of the reason this season is flailing in my opinion, is that the writers are committing the error of not letting Serena drop into the woodwork. As much as I don't care for the whole "lets rescue Hannah" stuff for June, it at least makes sense. Serena attempting any sort of power play in Gilead fails because BACK TALK GETS YOUR EYE TORN OUT. Nick's wife betrayed him much the way Serena betrayed Fred and was thrown into the deep end of the pool with weights chained on. And there were lots of other weights in that pool. It makes no sense for the council of Gilead to not spell out Serena's reality to her. 

I mean, the problem of Serena is easily solved by sending a couple guys to chain her to her bed like they do to Handmaids, and feed her until the baby comes in isolation and then kill her. The pussyfooting around it is implausible. 

[dmc]

Mind blown It just occurred to me that I bet Gilead is trying to provide unofficial handmaids to wealthy Canadian families who can’t have children. They need a way to get people to support the Gilead way of life.  I bet this is their plan and they absolutely served Serena up to the Wheelers.  All along I’ve been wondering why they have forgiven her for Fred’s death, even if they didn’t like Fred…it threatens their patriarchal lifestyle.  And Fred was in custody due to Serena’s treachery. What if they haven’t forgiven her and this is initiative they are using her to launch not the Gilead center?

Edited October 5, 2022 by dmc

[Cinnabon]

4 hours ago, dmc said:

Putnam hanging up on Serena mid sentence.  I rewound 10 times lol.  I plan to rewatch it another 20. 🙋‍♀️🙅‍♂️

I think I woke up everyone else in the house I laughed so hard at this!

2 hours ago, crashdown said:

Of course she can; she just doesn’t want to. Yet. 

She was given the opportunity to get refugee status and declined. Now she’s at the mercy of Gilead for everything. A place to stay, food, money. She can’t do as she pleases. 

[crashdown]

3 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

She was given the opportunity to get refugee status and declined. Now she’s at the mercy of Gilead for everything. A place to stay, food, money. She can’t do as she pleases. 

Correct. YET. She can always cross the street and ask for asylum in Canada, if she can manage to get out of the damn house!

[Cinnabon]

3 minutes ago, crashdown said:

Correct. YET. She can always cross the street and ask for asylum in Canada, if she can manage to get out of the damn house!

If they’re still willing to grant her refugee status. 🤷‍♀️

[crashdown]

Just now, Cinnabon said:

If they’re still willing to grant her refugee status.

I'm sure they would be. Not only is she an incredibly valuable asset, but "rot in misogyny" isn't a great look for a free and democratic country.

[Cinnabon]

Just now, crashdown said:

I'm sure they would be. Not only is she an incredibly valuable asset, but "rot in misogyny" isn't a great look for a free and democratic country.

How/why is she valuable? I think Canada and the US are getting fed up with her.

[crashdown]

1 hour ago, Redrum said:

Serena attempting any sort of power play in Gilead fails because BACK TALK GETS YOUR EYE TORN OUT. Nick's wife betrayed him much the way Serena betrayed Fred and was thrown into the deep end of the pool with weights chained on. And there were lots of other weights in that pool. It makes no sense for the council of Gilead to not spell out Serena's reality to her. 

Cognitive dissonance (on Serena's part) is a powerful thing!

[Cinnabon]

The entitled bitch still thinks she’s somehow special. 

[crashdown]

I'm usually pretty willing to smooth over rough world-building and plot elements on this show because I enjoy the characters so much, but this episode really pushed me past my limits of chillness. Everything about it was Contrived with a capital C. First, what were June and Luke thinking that they were going to learn about wife schools that Nick hadn't already told them (or that Nick didn't know)? And really, what do they THINK they are, Jezebels for the teen set? Wife schools are obviously finishing schools in which young ladies learn how to be wives. There's nothing scary about the schools per se--the scary thing is that these kids are going to become Wives sooner rather than later. Learning about their curriculum isn't going to help or change that.

Second, why on earth would both June and Luke think it's a good idea to risk their lives at the same time when they have Nichole to take care of and Hannah to fight for? Have they both been clubbed with idiot sticks? That really was a dick move: not only was it a selfish choice as parents, but it also was the selfish choice as friends, because if anything happened to both of them (and something DID happen to both of them) that got them killed, Moira would be stuck as a single parent to this kid for whom she never asked. Luke should have said all that and forced June to stay, especially since June is public enemy numero uno in Gilead whereas Luke is an unknown quantity.

Third, when they meet poor adorable Jaden, he refuses to talk to them out in the open because it's too dangerous and instead leads them into his secret abandoned bowling alley (presumably in Gilead, since he says it's where he hangs when he's on guard duty, but that's not entirely clear--it might still be in No Man's Land). However, he never has much to say to them beyond "it's a school"; he just gives them a thumb drive. He could have handed them that thumb drive out in the open and NOT taken them to the bowling alley in the first place. (And if school locations aren't on that thumb drive, just what IS there--the best recipes for rosemary lemon roast chicken and the secrets of cultivating roses?)

Finally, who's paying the electric bill of the abandoned bowling alley, anyway?

Edited October 5, 2022 by crashdown

[Redrum]

41 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

How/why is she valuable? I think Canada and the US are getting fed up with her.

I don't know that she's valuable per se, but she's definitely a source of info on how Commanders function and how Gilead upper society works. Agree that Canada and the US are fed up with her but honestly they'd never let her go back to Gilead in any reasonable scenario.

[Helena Dax]

I don't know how I feel about the ending. On the one hand, yes, it seems to raise the stakes, but on the other hand, there's no way June wouldn't be summarily executed the moment they find who she is, and we know that's not going to happen. I really don't feel like watching her going through another stint as Handmaid. Perhaps those guards were Canadian?

Logic implies that the young guard was betraying them since as many have pointed out, he could have given them the thumb drive in the forest. However, things stopped following logic in this show long time ago, so I'm not sure. 

Serena might not be a Handmaid (yet), but she's 100% a prisoner. 

2 hours ago, dmc said:

Mind blown It just occurred to me that I bet Gilead is trying to provide unofficial handmaids to wealthy Canadian families who can’t have children. They need a way to get people to support the Gilead way of life.  I bet this is their plan and they absolutely served Serena up to the Wheelers.  All along I’ve been wondering why they have forgiven her for Fred’s death, even if they didn’t like Fred…it threatens their patriarchal lifestyle.  And Fred was in custody due to Serena’s treachery. What if they haven’t forgiven her and this is initiative they are using her to launch not the Gilead center?

Love this theory!

When Serena was choosing a Handmaid,  all those files contained written information.

ETA: When Serena was having breakfast, she had to drink the same green shit June was given during her pregnancy.

Edited October 5, 2022 by Helena Dax
ETA

[Cinnabon]

48 minutes ago, Redrum said:

I don't know that she's valuable per se, but she's definitely a source of info on how Commanders function and how Gilead upper society works. Agree that Canada and the US are fed up with her but honestly they'd never let her go back to Gilead in any reasonable scenario.

They already agreed to let her stay in Gilead when she wanted to stay there after the funeral.

[Redrum]

7 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

hey already agreed to let her stay in Gilead when she wanted to stay there after the funeral.

Which makes no sense but the writing has gone to pot this season. I mean. It makes no sense to return Serena to Gilead for a funeral or for any other reason. The logical thing would be for the US authorities to do is to cart Serena off to Alaska. 

[AntFTW]

I wonder if Al Green stayed in Gilead.

[txhorns79]

2 hours ago, crashdown said:

Finally, who's paying the electric bill of the abandoned bowling alley, anyway?

The ins and outs of Gilead's economy are deeply confusing.  But yeah, it seems unlikely that an abandoned bowling alley in Gilead/No Man's Land would still have power.   

2 hours ago, crashdown said:

Cognitive dissonance (on Serena's part) is a powerful thing!

I enjoy it.  Serena is being given exactly what she supposedly wanted for women when setting up Gilead, i.e. a society where women are mostly voiceless and consigned to either breeding stock, domestic duties, sex toys for the elite or relegated to cleaning up toxic chemicals. 

[Redrum]

5 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I enjoy it.  Serena is being given exactly what she supposedly wanted for women when setting up Gilead, i.e. a society where women are mostly voiceless and consigned to either breeding stock, domestic duties, sex toys for the elite or relegated to cleaning up toxic chemicals. 

I think where I am annoyed is that I don't need it sugarcoated for Serena.... and I don't want it sugarcoated for Serena.

She chose this. Worse, she chose it after having the opportunity to escape. So I don't want to see it handled gently. I want an Aunt zapping her with a stun gun when she backtalks Mrs. Wheeler. I want Mrs Wheeler bitch slapping her for not properly lowering her eyes to Mr. Wheeler. I want her in the red dress being told her baby is NOT her baby, she will have that baby and suckle it only if Mrs Wheeler is ok with it and as soon as that child can be weaned, she will be trotted off to another childless couple where she will be fucked against her will for more babies. Based on how people in Gilead, including her, act, I'm tired of it being pussy footed around. 

[dmc]

1 hour ago, Helena Dax said:

Love this theory!

When Serena was choosing a Handmaid,  all those files contained written information.

ETA: When Serena was having breakfast, she had to drink the same green shit June was given during her pregnancy.

Edited 1 hour ago by Helena Dax · Reason: ETA

It also just occurred to me that Lawrence’s words that he will protect the baby at all costs now take on a sinister overtone 

did he mean from Serena?

Edited October 5, 2022 by dmc

[Quilt Fairy]

I couldn't really tell because so much of this show is shot in the damn dark, but it looked like 2 different groups got June and Luke.  Is one safe and the other not? 

ETA: Can't wait for Serena's baby to be taken from her at birth. 

Edited October 5, 2022 by Quilt Fairy

[iMonrey]

Contrivance, thy name is Handmaid's Tale. This is why I almost didn't make it past season 3. I got so tired of June being captured . . . again and again and again. The idea that she would willingly go back just for some intel is bad enough, I'm not up for another two seasons of torture porn with June. 

They really want to have their cake and eat it too when it comes to Serena. On the one hand we're supposed to think she's so intelligent she was one of the masterminds behind Gilead in the first place but on the other hand she's so stupid she thinks she's in a position to make demands of Gilead even after they cut her finger off just for reading. Does she understand Gilead or doesn't she? Is she so far up her own ass she has deluded herself into thinking she's in a position of power? I take it that's what they're going for here because obviously they don't want us thinking she's a blithering idiot, but at this point it's a distinction without much difference. She's been beaten down enough times now that she should get it. I don't know how many more houses have to fall on her.

[Anela]

11 hours ago, NeenerNeener said:

I wonder if the Wheelers are going to let Serena keep her baby, or if she's inadvertently made herself a Handmaid in Toronto. They obviously aren't going to let her run the fertility center. How many clue-by-fours does she have to get hit with before she'll admit to herself that Gilead was a bad idea?

This set up will probably result in June finding Hannah and getting her out. Luke's chances of living through this are 50/50.

I hope they aren't setting it up for Luke to die, and for June to somehow get together with Nick. I like his new wife, from what I've seen of her, and I just don't buy them as being in love. I don't think she should absolutely stay with Luke, just because they were married before, but having him killed just to get him out of the way, would be annoying.

11 hours ago, dmc said:

Can I have a cell phone? 😂😂😂

This episode was a basket of ehhhs.  

I’m not entirely sure I understand what June and Luke are doing. I definitely am on board with the getting Hannah back but with a concrete plan. 

This is what I mean about Luke and June together.  

June and Nick together - great plan to kill Fred in No Man’s Land 🤍🤍🤍

June and Luke - wandering aimlessly over the border until a bomb blast 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

Putnam hanging up on Serena mid sentence.  I rewound 10 times lol.  I plan to rewatch it another 20. 🙋‍♀️🙅‍♂️

The Wheelers are Defcon 1 creepy.  They are absolutely going to steal her baby.  Serena is definitely a prisoner there on work release to the Gilead center.  I still don’t understand why Serena cannot just write another book or find an occupation separate from Gilead.

9 hours ago, dmc said:

yet is the key word 
 

How long till Serena realizes the Gilead Information center is a “fake” job to keep her busy and out of the Boys’ Club’s way and starts quiet quitting. She’s going to being playing computer solitaire soon…the Gilead Center seems like kind of place that blocks all social media applications and leaves mindsweeper.

This made me chuckle. :) I could just picture it.

8 hours ago, Redrum said:

Well, honestly, why does Serena have any expectation of being allowed to do anything other than embroidery, gardening, and tending the house? I don't understand why - if we're supposed to buy into how Gilead feels women are wives and mothers and THATS IT - why Serena hasn't been told to reach down between her legs and realize there's no twig and berries down there, and to shut her female mouth. There's logically no reason for this to not be happening. There's no reason beyond enslaving her for the baby and then executing her for betraying Fred for Gilead to want Serena back.

Part of the reason this season is flailing in my opinion, is that the writers are committing the error of not letting Serena drop into the woodwork. As much as I don't care for the whole "lets rescue Hannah" stuff for June, it at least makes sense. Serena attempting any sort of power play in Gilead fails because BACK TALK GETS YOUR EYE TORN OUT. Nick's wife betrayed him much the way Serena betrayed Fred and was thrown into the deep end of the pool with weights chained on. And there were lots of other weights in that pool. It makes no sense for the council of Gilead to not spell out Serena's reality to her. 

I mean, the problem of Serena is easily solved by sending a couple guys to chain her to her bed like they do to Handmaids, and feed her until the baby comes in isolation and then kill her. The pussyfooting around it is implausible. 

I totally agree. They want to continue to showcase Yvonne Strahovski, unless I'm too cynical. I haven't watched yet, because I just haven't been in the mood, but I might watch this one.

[greekmom]

Serena looking outside and going down the stairs reminded me of June in the early days as a Handmaid. I think Serena is a heap of trouble being at the Wheelers. Even the breakfast displays the fact that their breakfasts are different with Serena with the protein shake and oatmeal/fruit and the wife with the bacon, eggs, coffee shows the position that they are implying for Serena. Even though Mrs. Wheeler (what is her first name) is heaping fake praise on Serena.  Mr. Wheeler dismissing Serena after they agreed on the fertility idea and forcing her to take the folic acid pill.  I cannot believe Serena is actually so stupid to think she can still have some power in Gilead without her husband. Did Wheeler put her in her place or what?

It was stupid of June and Luke to go back into Gilead.
So Serena and Mrs. Putman had a chance to adopt as soon as the US fell but didn't.  Selfish bitches.
The Gilead centre focusing on kids is strange since they use handmaids to birth children, no fertility drugs or invitro, or that men have any infertile issues. So what are they going to do? Ship up handmaids and have them birth children for others for pay to Gilead?
Putman looks like he's an extremist who likes to diddle little girls.
I knew Jaden was trouble.
 

[crashdown]

23 minutes ago, Anela said:

I hope they aren't setting it up for Luke to die, and for June to somehow get together with Nick.

I'm fairly certain that Luke is doomed--not necessarily because of Nick, but because I just don't see any further story possibilities with him. He doesn't have any wants or needs that could drive a storyline other than his quest for Hannah, and that only duplicates June's. They're also really laying on the June-and-Luke-are-in-love stuff a little too thick for it NOT to be a devastating setup for his death in 5.10. We'll see if I'm wrong, but I think I'm right.

[ww92]

Can Elisabeth Moss or someone take a pay cut so they can afford to rent some freaking lights? I can never tell what's going on during the nighttime running through the forest scenes because I can't see a damn thing.

[Redrum]

14 minutes ago, crashdown said:

I'm fairly certain that Luke is doomed--not necessarily because of Nick, but because I just don't see any further story possibilities with him. He doesn't have any wants or needs that could drive a storyline other than his quest for Hannah, and that only duplicates June's. They're also really laying on the June-and-Luke-are-in-love stuff a little too thick for it NOT to be a devastating setup for his death in 5.10. We'll see if I'm wrong, but I think I'm right.

Yeah I feel this is coming. 

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Putman looks like he's an extremist who likes to diddle little girls.

I think that's a proven fact. 

[SourK]

Here's what I wish: I wish June and Luke embarked on a dangerous quest because they actually needed to get something important. It doesn't feel like anything the characters are doing follows from anything else -- it just feels like the writers are trying to stir the pot to keep the story going.

16 hours ago, Armchair Critic said:

Moira’s face when June said she was going with Luke is all of us. 🙄

I loved that moment, because it seemed like maybe they were going to try to turn it into a three-person idiot expedition, and Moira would agree to go too, but then, no -- we just cut to her handing off the backpack and saying goodbye. Smart girl.

5 hours ago, Redrum said:

I think where I am annoyed is that I don't need it sugarcoated for Serena.... and I don't want it sugarcoated for Serena. ... I want an Aunt zapping her with a stun gun when she backtalks Mrs. Wheeler. I want Mrs Wheeler bitch slapping her for not properly lowering her eyes to Mr. Wheeler. I want her in the red dress being told her baby is NOT her baby, she will have that baby and suckle it only if Mrs Wheeler is ok with it and as soon as that child can be weaned, she will be trotted off to another childless couple where she will be fucked against her will for more babies.

I don't want that for her or for anyone. And I personally feel like I watched enough of it in season one.

[Redrum]

6 minutes ago, SourK said:

I don't want that for her or for anyone. And I personally feel like I watched enough of it in season one.

I accept your reasoning and will qualify - I don't need to see any women raped. 

That said, Gilead fucks over women hard. It was perfectly acceptable in last weeks episode for a comatose girl to be bitch slapped in the face while lying in a hospital bed. We've seen Gilead custom insist that June be raped with Serena watching. We've seen Gilead custom allow women to have their eyes cut out, their bodies burned, arms removed etc for backtalk. We got to see Aunt Lydia full on slap a beat down on Janine in early seasons AT A PARTY and the only reason that was mildly unacceptable was because it was a party. There are handmaids with their mouths sewn shut.

Why is Serena hands off? (not directing this question at you, but the greater you) Why is she so special that she doesn't have to face the system she created and submit herself to the rules she helped define? This is what she wanted. She wanted to be subservient to men. She wanted to be a Wife and to impose harsh rules on women who didn't qualify as Wives. She wanted a handmaid raped and the resulting baby ripped from the handmaid and given to her. Why shouldn't she feel the full weight of the life SHE WANTED for everyone but herself? Remember this is the same woman who made a point of using June's daughter as bait in early seasons and as a bitch point in this season.  Why shouldn't Serena submit herself to the rules of Gilead up to including rape and torture as she herself endorsed this for others and has yet to express that ANY of this wrong or incorrect?

Treating Serena the way she treats others seems fair. Even though I really don't need to see Putnam or Wheeler fucking her on the bed while Mrs Wheeler holds her down. 

[Cinnabon]

2 minutes ago, Redrum said:

I accept your reasoning and will qualify - I don't need to see any women raped. 

That said, Gilead fucks over women hard. It was perfectly acceptable in last weeks episode for a comatose girl to be bitch slapped in the face while lying in a hospital bed. We've seen Gilead custom insist that June be raped with Serena watching. We've seen Gilead custom allow women to have their eyes cut out, their bodies burned, arms removed etc for backtalk. We got to see Aunt Lydia full on slap a beat down on Janine in early seasons AT A PARTY and the only reason that was mildly unacceptable was because it was a party. There are handmaids with their mouths sewn shut.

Why is Serena hands off? (not directing this question at you, but the greater you) Why is she so special that she doesn't have to face the system she created and submit herself to the rules she helped define? This is what she wanted. She wanted to be subservient to men. She wanted to be a Wife and to impose harsh rules on women who didn't qualify as Wives. She wanted a handmaid raped and the resulting baby ripped from the handmaid and given to her. Why shouldn't she feel the full weight of the life SHE WANTED for everyone but herself? Remember this is the same woman who made a point of using June's daughter as bait in early seasons and as a bitch point in this season.  Why shouldn't Serena submit herself to the rules of Gilead up to including rape and torture as she herself endorsed this for others and has yet to express that ANY of this wrong or incorrect?

Treating Serena the way she treats others seems fair. Even though I really don't need to see Putnam or Wheeler fucking her on the bed while Mrs Wheeler holds her down. 

[Pepper the Cat]

I was convinced for most of the episode that Mr Wheeler did not exist and it was really Mrs Wheeler giving the orders. 
I am now thinking Mr Wheeler is just a figure head and the Mrs is still really in charge.

and Mrs gets what she wants. And right now she wants Serena’s baby

[greekmom]

30 minutes ago, Redrum said:

Treating Serena the way she treats others seems fair. Even though I really don't need to see Putnam or Wheeler fucking her on the bed while Mrs Wheeler holds her down. 

I'm torn. Half of me agrees and the other half says an eye for an eye. Serena assisted in setting up Gilead. She treated those girls like shit. Took away their kids. Now she's romanticizing her relationship with Fred and wanting vengeance against June.  Bitch - the dude got your finger cut off and also beat you. He was no prize.

[Anela]

3 hours ago, crashdown said:

I'm fairly certain that Luke is doomed--not necessarily because of Nick, but because I just don't see any further story possibilities with him. He doesn't have any wants or needs that could drive a storyline other than his quest for Hannah, and that only duplicates June's. They're also really laying on the June-and-Luke-are-in-love stuff a little too thick for it NOT to be a devastating setup for his death in 5.10. We'll see if I'm wrong, but I think I'm right.

That's a shame, because I actually like him now. 

[crashdown]

1 minute ago, Anela said:

That's a shame, because I actually like him now. 

I think that's the point!

[Shermie]

11 hours ago, dmc said:

Mind blown It just occurred to me that I bet Gilead is trying to provide unofficial handmaids to wealthy Canadian families who can’t have children. They need a way to get people to support the Gilead way of life.  I bet this is their plan and they absolutely served Serena up to the Wheelers.

Interesting.

As is Serena. Though heinous, I find her a fascinating character. You get the Mrs. Putnams and Mrs. Wheelers that just suck up the lifestyle and do as they’re told, but Serena was a successful career woman before Gilead. She probably went along with the Gilead concept because she thought she’d continue to be a powerful part of it, helping to run it like she ran her business. The morality part of rescuing children from unfit mothers so they can be raised in proper homes seemed like a good idea to her too. You could see her look of disapproval when Mrs. Putnam turned her nose up at adopting a brown child, when Serena just wanted a child.

They discussed the Handmaid idea and didn’t seem like they wanted it to happen, but eventually it did when the men slowly took the power away from the women. 

Just like with the fertility centre; she’s still an ambitious woman who has ideas and wants to make them happen. You can’t get rid of that type of personality. 

Having her become the Wheelers’ Handmaid makes perfect sense in the concept of this world. I assume she’d have to keep reproducing since she’s proven to be fertile. 

[Cinnabon]

53 minutes ago, Shermie said:

The morality part of rescuing children from unfit mothers so they can be raised in proper homes seemed like a good idea to her too

This wasn’t “rescuing,” it was kidnapping. Including potentially murdering anyone who got in the way. She also supported the terrorist attack on DC.

[Andyourlittledog2]

58 minutes ago, Shermie said:

Though heinous, I find her a fascinating character. You get the Mrs. Putnams and Mrs. Wheelers that just suck up the lifestyle and do as they’re told, but Serena was a successful career woman before Gilead. She probably went along with the Gilead concept because she thought she’d continue to be a powerful part of it,

This reminds me so much of the Patriarchy movement and Quiverfull:  They espouse women keeping at home, bearing children, etc but their female proponents write books, go on lecture tours, tv interviews, etc out 'in the world' and have all kinds of freedoms that the women they are preaching to do not have. Serena is the fictional version of these women, career woman who wrote books and went on lecture tours touting how great it would be if women (not them of course) stayed home and just kept quiet and gave up all autonomy to the men. Serena never expected to be subject to the thing she espoused.

[aghst]

Seemed inevitable that June was going to end up back in Gilead because of Hanna.

But the way they did it …

I thought Jaeden was setting them up for an ambush or maybe they could all have been caught together.  The bowling and the singing and dancing just raised the sense of dread.  If the other guardians were nearby, even if Jaden wasn’t worried about them hearing what they were doing in the bowling alley, June and Luke should be on edge, not be able to relax so much.

Yeah they spent hours for the kid instead of taking maybe 5 minutes.  Because they wanted to build suspense and pad the episode a bit?

Serena came up with ideas for Gilead and was pushed aside.  Then she came up with the idea for the fertility center and is being pushed aside again.  
 

That flashback she had was odd.  She’s getting all this adulation from women hoping to have their own babies and then she remembers the time before Handmaids.  She believed she could conceive but then eventually accepted that they’d have to have a handmaid.  She and Mrs. Putnam didn’t want those orphaned non white children though?

[madpsych78]

I think there were a few little nuggets thrown in that were significant.

For example, Jaden. He's presumably just a few years older than Hannah and he has "fuzzy" memories of "before." June and Luke figured out that Hannah would likely have no memories of pre-Gilead life.

The other thing that was evident was that it was blatantly obvious that Luke had no experience in Gilead. 

[Anela]

1 hour ago, Cinnabon said:

This wasn’t “rescuing,” it was kidnapping. Including potentially murdering anyone who got in the way. She also supported the terrorist attack on DC.

Yes. We saw her with Fred, at the movies, all excited as the coup started.