Glass Onion: A Knives Out Mystery (2022)

[EtheltoTillie]

I wasn’t going to watch this because I thought Knives Out was a confusing, unfunny mess, thank you, @Giuseppe, but it was a slow day, and it’s there on Netflix, and there you go, another confusing, unfunny mess that I turned off halfway through. I read through the summary on Wikipedia and saved myself an hour. I also find Daniel Craig’s accent horribly done. It isn’t even good enough for parody. 
The only thing I liked was the chance to see those last glimpses of Angela Lansbury and Stephen Sondheim. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I wasn’t going to watch this because I thought Knives Out was a confusing, unfunny mess, thank you, @Giuseppe, but it was a slow day, and it’s there on Netflix, and there you go, another confusing, unfunny mess that I turned off halfway through. I read through the summary on Wikipedia and saved myself an hour. I also find Daniel Craig’s accent horribly done. It isn’t even good enough for parody. 
The only thing I liked was the chance to see those last glimpses of Angela Lansbury and Stephen Sondheim. 

Heh, this👆 post make me wonder if I'm like the onlookers of The Emperor's New Clothes.

[EtheltoTillie]

8 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Heh, this👆 post make me wonder if I'm like the onlookers of The Emperor's New Clothes.

I wonder that for myself.  It seems most people like it.  I hate to be such a negative Nellie, but I don't get the love for this movie.  Another friend of mine was also raving about it.  Someone gave her tickets to see it at the 92nd Street Y (in NYC) a couple of weeks ago with Daniel Craig appearing in person.  Maybe that's what swayed her. 

[Chaos Theory]

From Andi story it looked like she was the only one who succeeded on her own.  The “disrupters” all initially failed even at entry level this and that.  Miles had shady friends so he was able to shade their way into progress if they did this favor for one of his friends which they were happy to do.   Andi didn’t need Miles’ shady friends so when he brought in investors from shadesville (I forget where) she smartly turned him down which is what instigated him steal the company out from under her and by that time the others were so far indebted to him they actually thought he was magic.   So it was easy for them to convince themselves that Miles started the company WITH Andi and just win a takeover instead of just stealing it out from under her Completely.    The funny thing was even years later they were still at Miles beck and call.  Miles was the so called Tech genius and they were still trying to break through to a level of success none of them could reach without him.  

Edited December 31, 2022 by Chaos Theory
Autoedit likes to spell Miles as Mike.

[Kel Varnsen]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Exactly.
But it is a well-crafted parody that seems magically prescient in its selection of the real-life villain who is the primary subject of the parody.

I think the fact that the main character is a well known celebrity because he is the world's greatest detective is an instant giveaway that this movie isn't to be taken seriously. Unless there is a real person out there who is the world's greatest detective and I have never heard of them.

[SunnyBeBe]

3 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I wasn’t going to watch this because I thought Knives Out was a confusing, unfunny mess, thank you, @Giuseppe, but it was a slow day, and it’s there on Netflix, and there you go, another confusing, unfunny mess that I turned off halfway through. I read through the summary on Wikipedia and saved myself an hour. I also find Daniel Craig’s accent horribly done. It isn’t even good enough for parody. 
The only thing I liked was the chance to see those last glimpses of Angela Lansbury and Stephen Sondheim. 

I made it through and it was wasted time.  I feel for the actors that were subjected to it.  Not for me at all.  Totally an unfortunate mess, imo.  Ugh…..

[MisterGlass]

I enjoyed this as a pleasant mystery parody.  The first movie was sharper and newer, this one is softer and comfier.  I also see why it isn't for everyone.  The peers of this movie aren't necessarily Agatha Christie works, but rather "Clue" and "Murder by Death."  I certainly liked it better than the latter.

Daniel Craig was of course the stand out, but I got a few laughs from the others too.  I thought he was overselling the "aw, shucks" persona in the beginning, so I was delighted to find that it was an intentional bit of bad acting, and there was a distinction between his regular parody performance - already heightened - and the even more heightened performance within the performance.  Kate Hudson was good, and Dave Bautista continues to entertain. 

Miles is a C+ at most things but an A+ huckster, and that can get people a long way.  Every famous tech start-up has some kind of mythic figurehead, and he can play that part.  Lionel's discussion with the Alpha board made it clear that they all knew Miles's defects, but he was still often an asset in that role.  He threw out random ideas, and it was up to others to implement or dismiss them.  I also agree with other posters that Miles comes from money.  He threw out that supposedly humble story of seeing the Mona Lisa at age six, forgetting that the average person can't afford to take themselves to Paris, let alone their six year old.

I thought Helen smashing the box at the beginning was a statement that this woman doesn't play games, literally, in contrast to the others.

The costuming and set dressing were great.  I loved that so many of the glass statues were tacky reproductions of better art.

Edited December 31, 2022 by MisterGlass
Spelling

[Guest]

11 hours ago, Giuseppe said:

Parts of it I thought were unnecessary, like Birdie's assistant character (seriously, was she important in some way that I missed?) and also the random dude who was staying at the house.

I enjoyed the movie but this was the biggest disappointment for me. The beginning hinted that the ordinary people were going to feature more heavily and then completely dropped them in a way that frustrated me. I wanted more Jessica Henwick and Madelyn Cline because their characters were the ones who seemed to not be entirely what the appeared. The mystery itself felt really uneven. 

[Giuseppe]

11 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Wasn’t Alpha ≈ Meta? 
Or at least a similar name to a parent company that reflects the giant ego of the owner by virtue of his having amassed a fortune he did very little to earn or deserve? 

Ah, ok that makes sense. Wasn't thinking about it in those terms.

11 hours ago, Bastet said:

She's there to be the only normal people in the midst of this group of shitheads (because she's hired help, not a member), and specifically to highlight just how delusional Birdie is.  She's the quintessential celebrity assistant,

Yeah I get what the character was about and why she was there, but as I said, she didn't feel important to the story at all, IMO. There was nothing in the plot that she contributed to in any significant way. But that's just my thoughts. Though I did think it was funny when she realized Birdie thought sweatshops were where sweat pants were made.

[Bastet]

On 12/31/2022 at 7:38 AM, Chaos Theory said:

From Andi story it looked like she was the only one who succeeded on her own.  The “disrupters” all initially failed even at entry level this and that.

I thought they didn't initially fail at the entry level, they just all (other than Andi, so she was the leader of the pack) were described as having ground to a halt in their thirties, having been on the potential road to success in their careers but stalling out just a couple of rungs up the ladder.  Until Miles came along, in the same position, but using his one skill as a bullshit artist to charm his way into connections he used to help them as well as himself.

On 12/31/2022 at 7:38 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Andi didn’t need Miles’ shady friends so when he brought in investors from shadesville (I forget where) she smartly turned him down which is what instigated him steal the company out from under her and by that time the others were so far indebted to him they actually thought he was magic.

It wasn't about investors, as they'd already amassed big bucks, but what he wanted to invest the company's existing money in.  He pushed her out when she refused to sign off on investing all of Alpha's assets in the crazy Klean power idea (because the technology was unproven and dangerous); she said she'll take her 50% and walk (his 50% not being enough capital), and that's when he made up the napkin and took her to court, claiming - with the help of all the lying friends - the original idea for the company was his, so she had no intellectual property rights to 50% ownership (like everything else in these films, you just have to go with what they present as how things work, not what one would actually have to prove).

Edited January 1, 2023 by Bastet

[Chaos Theory]

8 hours ago, Giuseppe said:

.

Yeah I get what the character was about and why she was there, but as I said, she didn't feel important to the story at all, IMO. There was nothing in the plot that she contributed to in any significant way. But that's just my thoughts. Though I did think it was funny when she realized Birdie thought sweatshops were where sweat pants were made.

Her entire career was being Birdie’s assistant so when Birdie took the fall for the Sweatshop thing it meant her own career took a hit as well.  Birdie at least (in theory if Miles kept his word) would get money out of it but Peg gained nothing.    She had no real career to fall back on.  

 

[ursula]

22 hours ago, Giuseppe said:

Parts of it I thought were unnecessary, like Birdie's assistant character (seriously, was she important in some way that I missed?) and also the random dude who was staying at the house

They're there for the audience to latch on as “least likely suspects and therefore most likely to be the killer”. They’re red herrings.

[arc]

On 12/30/2022 at 10:32 PM, shapeshifter said:

Wasn’t Alpha ≈ Meta? 

Miles is Elon Musk with a small hint of Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg (or even Jack Ma), but Alpha itself seems somewhat more like Google. Google went and spun itself off so its parent company could be renamed Alphabet, and in the scene where the delivery guy is bringing Lionel his mystery box, he passes by a big TV set in front of four beanbag chairs in Google's colors: yellow, red, green, blue. Then again, the news guy interviewing Claire says Alpha's many businesses include "Alpha Cosmos" and "Alpha Car" (Musk's SpaceX and Tesla) and "Alpha Shop" (gotta be Bezos). But the Google founders have been much better at keeping themselves out of the limelight compared to their tech baron peers.

In light of recent news, Duke Cody reads as a take on Andrew Tate and other misogynist influencers.

[Kel Varnsen]

6 hours ago, arc said:

Miles is Elon Musk with a small hint of Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg

Is the fax machine thing one of those guys or someone else? Because when I saw that my first thought was remembering Trump saying he never sends anything important by email and only uses registered mail or couriers to send documents.

[arc]

I think all those guys, Trump included, have smartphones. This fax thing was a bizarre billionaire quirk that also meant as a plot contrivance Blanc and Brand could easily find the faxed email on the Greek island mansion's fax rather than having to hack into Bron's email. I guess no one cleaned up the faxes from weeks ago even though presumably Bron only sent his mansion's staff home the day before his guests arrived. (Also it's kind of a contrivance that the island's fax machine was in the gym and not the main office. Unless he just has them in multiple rooms.)

[shapeshifter]

18 hours ago, arc said:

Miles is Elon Musk with a small hint of Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg (or even Jack Ma), but Alpha itself seems somewhat more like Google. Google went and spun itself off so its parent company could be renamed Alphabet, and in the scene where the delivery guy is bringing Lionel his mystery box, he passes by a big TV set in front of four beanbag chairs in Google's colors: yellow, red, green, blue. Then again, the news guy interviewing Claire says Alpha's many businesses include "Alpha Cosmos" and "Alpha Car" (Musk's SpaceX and Tesla) and "Alpha Shop" (gotta be Bezos). But the Google founders have been much better at keeping themselves out of the limelight compared to their tech baron peers.

Yes, Miles with his Alpha is a composite villain, but recent current events have aligned a certain someone more closely with Miles himself.

 

3 hours ago, arc said:

This fax thing was a bizarre billionaire quirk that also meant as a plot contrivance Blanc and Brand could easily find the faxed email on the Greek island mansion's fax rather than having to hack into Bron's email.

Yes, totally, but perhaps a bit of the FAX inspiration came from the health care industry and from legal businesses who are just starting to move away from the "only a FAXed document is secure" nonsense.

[PurpleTentacle]

This was certainly an entertaining movie. But I have a few remarks.

I suspected Miles from the beginning and was weirded out that our detective duo didn't give that any consideration. That seems like pretty big plot contrivance. Why were they going around 10 corners, cooking up how somebody would protect him and murder for him, when the simplest explaination always was that he did it for himself?

I get the feeling Rian Johnson doesn't know how Hydrogen works and how it's used. Being able to transport it in a crystaline form would be a massive, massive revolution in the energy sector, as long as the crystal doesn't take too much energy to produce. It seems like it takes very little energy to turn it back into gasous hydrogen, at the very least, which is a big step foreward. You don't have to pump it into people's homes. You can use it in power plants, in the chemical industry, you name it. Although it is safe to add a certain percentage to natural gas and pump it into peoples homes, if you want to.

Also they might not have been able to get Miles on the murder of Andi, but they should have been able to get him on the murder of Duke. They all saw him giving Duke that glass. No need to destroy a priceless piece of art. Also that whole thing doesn't make sense. Blanc said "there was no obstruction in his airways". Wouldn't you say his airways being swollen shut due to an allergic reaction is an obstruction? Even if not, wouldn't it be worth mentioning when you checked his airways? Also who, with allergies as deadly as these, doesn't carry an epipen? Nobody, that's who.

Like I said, I was very, very entertained, but these logical incosistencies ruin a good murder mystery. Because it making sense, at least in hindsight, is half of the fun.

[PurpleTentacle]

On 11/26/2022 at 11:33 PM, scarynikki12 said:

On 11/25/2022 at 3:59 AM, Cress said:

The twist makes you rethink the movie and want to rewatch it knowing that Helen is playing Andi. However, if Miles knew all along that she wasn't Andi, then why didn't he confront her?

I think he may have thought she really was Andi at first and survived the murder attempt. The death announcement being delayed and Miles not being nearly as smart as he believed could contribute to this. Also he may have intended to confront and try (again) to kill her but wanted it to be private so as not to have witnesses. 

That was explained in a blink and you miss it moment in Daniel Craig's nearly unintelligible accent. Miles knew it was Helen all along. He sent her the puzzle box to lure her to the island. Apparently he was sure that she would come disguised as her sister and hoped some of the other people there would murder her or he'd do it himself.

Why? No idea. Doesn't make much sense.

How did he figure she would come disguised as her sister? No idea. Doesn't make much sense.

Guess it can be handwaved by Miles being an idiot?

On 11/28/2022 at 5:29 AM, Cress said:

Another thing I thought of--the company is referred to as Alpha but we constantly see a logo which looks like the Greek letter Omega.

It's a stylised A. Again, Miles is an idiot.

On 11/26/2022 at 11:53 PM, SeanC said:

It's funny how much Elon Musk worked to make this movie more relevant in the month or so between when I saw it at TIFF and when it is getting more general release.

At least Miles and Andi built that company from nothing. Elon Musk just got lucky by investing his daddy's blood diamond apartheit money into the right companies. (no he didn't found Paypal or Tesla, he just lies about it)

On 12/1/2022 at 4:51 PM, attica said:

I read an interview with the exec at Netflix who claimed he had tons of data showing that movies who had theatrical release got 5x as many viewers when streaming as those that didn't.

Yeah, because movies that go directly to streaming are significantly more shit than movies that hit theaters. What is it with silicon valley types and not being able to interpret data?

On 12/24/2022 at 9:04 AM, AnimeMania said:

Hydrogen becomes liquid at -253 degrees Celsius and solid at -259 degrees Celsius. Miles is a genius just for creating solid Hydrogen you can carry around in your pocket. The saving in storage and transport would be amazing.

Yup. None of that made sense. That would be a massive breakthrough and not a desaster waiting to happen, like they made it out. It just needs to be handled correctly, which it would be. You wouldn't just shovel it into a furnace in peoples homes.

On 12/24/2022 at 2:19 PM, Enigma X said:

The not consistently making Miles and Andi the genius or the idiot was one reason I was annoyed. I think Miles, like some real famous rich people dubbed geniuses sometimes do, was supposed to be seen as fumbling into his genius ideas. That did not land. I thought it would be revealed that the hydrogen discovery was made by Lionel, but that was not the case.

I mean the hydrogen discovery wasn't made by anybody in the group. Miles met a scientist in a sweat lodge or something like that.

On 12/24/2022 at 4:05 PM, Shorty186 said:

I just thought of something else that didn’t line up. If Duke crossed paths with Miles just after he left Andie to die in her garage, how come Duke, Claire and Lionel didn’t find her? They were banging all over outside her house, but didn’t try there? They would have heard the car running.

Yep. Should have heard the car running, probably even smelled the exhaust.

Sadly this movie doesn't hold up nearly as well as the first one, if you think two seconds about it.

Edited January 3, 2023 by PurpleTentacle

[PurpleTentacle]

On 12/25/2022 at 10:45 AM, arc said:

The puzzle box was at least partially CGI. There's just no way a wooden disc that big is absolutely seamless once it unfolds.

Every transition was CGI and I assume they had multiple physical models for when it was static. All that stuff couldn't have even fit in there.

On 12/26/2022 at 11:53 PM, Milburn Stone said:

The kind of movie Knives Out 1 was, was better, but Rian Johnson could not make that kind of movie again, so, given that he had to do something fundamentally different this time, I think he succeeded like gangbusters. Tons of fun.

Why couldn't he?

On 12/31/2022 at 7:39 AM, Bastet said:

My favorite scene with her is when Birdie coughs up her secret phone and reveals the "Sounds perfect, thanks" email about the sweatshop, and Peg realizes, OMG, she thinks sweatshops are where sweatpants are made.

To be honest, not the dumbest thing I've seen from her and maybe a viable defense if that email ever comes to light. Though with her history it's unlikely people will believe her.

 

[Milburn Stone]

5 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Why couldn't he [make the same kind of movie that Knives Out 1 was].

Because: It would be too likely compared to the first one and found wanting; the critics would charge him with being a one-trick pony in the mystery genre; it would bore him to do the same movie again; templates are creative death; it's practically impossible for any creative to intend to catch lighting in a bottle and succeed--better to go out into the storm without a bottle and see where that takes you.

[shapeshifter]

14 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

5 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Why couldn't he [make the same kind of movie that Knives Out 1 was].

Because: It would be too likely compared to the first one and found wanting; the critics would charge him with being a one-trick pony in the mystery genre; it would bore him to do the same movie again; templates are creative death; it's practically impossible for any creative to intend to catch lighting in a bottle and succeed--better to go out into the storm without a bottle and see where that takes you.

And the pandemic. 

[Chaos Theory]

Directors/show runners like to experiment.  Making the same movie over and over and over again even in the same franchise does  get tedious. So switching it up from a straight up mystery to a mystery comedy was a fun idea.   It worked for me as I compare it to shows like Leverage and. Movies like Clue.   This is what happened folks and this is how it was done…..and half the fun is watching everyone fumble around in the dark.  

[scarynikki12]

7 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

I suspected Miles from the beginning and was weirded out that our detective duo didn't give that any consideration. That seems like pretty big plot contrivance. Why were they going around 10 corners, cooking up how somebody would protect him and murder for him, when the simplest explaination always was that he did it for himself?

Blanc said his Achilles heel are dumb things. He tells Helen he doesn't suspect Miles because, at this point in the story, he still thinks he's a complicated genius who would NEVER be stupid enough to kill Andi right after defeating her in court. Once he realized Miles IS that stupid all the pieces fell into place. For Helen's part, she said she loved playing Clue so the running around looking for the envelope was a nod to the game and it speaks to how stupid Miles was as he didn't immediately destroy the envelope (Lionel also brings this up).

Regarding Klear, Miles got the hydrogen from a sketchy guy in Peru and wasn't willing to wait the necessary time needed to prove he wouldn't be doing a modern day Hindenburg. That's why Andi refused to put all of Alpha's resources towards it and walked away. It sounded like Lionel thought it had potential but he wanted a minimum of two years before even considering taking it public. Even the Glass Onion, which was being powered by Klear, went right up in flames the moment the hydrogen hit the fire. Miles saw an opportunity to achieve his Mona Lisa level immortality and was too impatient to make sure it would truly work.

7 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

That was explained in a blink and you miss it moment in Daniel Craig's nearly unintelligible accent. Miles knew it was Helen all along. He sent her the puzzle box to lure her to the island. Apparently he was sure that she would come disguised as her sister and hoped some of the other people there would murder her or he'd do it himself.

Miles genuinely thought Andi was still alive at first. That's why he's so shocked to see her. He invited her to give himself an alibi for her murder. Since Miles didn't wait around to make sure she was really dead there was a chance she survived and came to the island to fuck with him. 

Burning the Glass Onion and Mona Lisa were necessary to the story because both ruined Miles. He'd put all of Alpha's resources in Klear and created a modern day Hindenburg instead so he was going to lose his billions. Klear also burned up the most famous painting in the world which would lead to France coming for him at a minimum and Blanc specifically reminded the audience the painting is the property of the state so Miles is going to be in deeper shit than if it had been privately owned. The Shitheads finally deciding to lie for the truth and bury him for killing Andi and Duke was really just icing at that point but still good.

[Chaos Theory]

57 minutes ago, scarynikki12 said:

Blanc said his Achilles heel are dumb things. He tells Helen he doesn't suspect Miles because, at this point in the story, he still thinks he's a complicated genius who would NEVER be stupid enough to kill Andi right after defeating her in court. Once he realized Miles IS that stupid all the pieces fell into place. For Helen's part, she said she loved playing Clue so the running around looking for the envelope was a nod to the game and it speaks to how stupid Miles was as he didn't immediately destroy the envelope (Lionel also brings this up).

Regarding Klear, Miles got the hydrogen from a sketchy guy in Peru and wasn't willing to wait the necessary time needed to prove he wouldn't be doing a modern day Hindenburg. That's why Andi refused to put all of Alpha's resources towards it and walked away. It sounded like Lionel thought it had potential but he wanted a minimum of two years before even considering taking it public. Even the Glass Onion, which was being powered by Klear, went right up in flames the moment the hydrogen hit the fire. Miles saw an opportunity to achieve his Mona Lisa level immortality and was too impatient to make sure it would truly work.

Miles genuinely thought Andi was still alive at first. That's why he's so shocked to see her. He invited her to give himself an alibi for her murder. Since Miles didn't wait around to make sure she was really dead there was a chance she survived and came to the island to fuck with him. 

Burning the Glass Onion and Mona Lisa were necessary to the story because both ruined Miles. He'd put all of Alpha's resources in Klear and created a modern day Hindenburg instead so he was going to lose his billions. Klear also burned up the most famous painting in the world which would lead to France coming for him at a minimum and Blanc specifically reminded the audience the painting is the property of the state so Miles is going to be in deeper shit than if it had been privately owned. The Shitheads finally deciding to lie for the truth and bury him for killing Andi and Duke was really just icing at that point but still good.

You said this better than I could.  Blanc made a point of telling Helen (I think) that the death of Andi was passive.   The person who did it likely didn’t even stay to watch her die.    Miles likely just put her in her car and then sped off in his Lamborghini where he nearly pancaked Duke.    Duke shows up at Andi’s house to ask about the email and Claire shows up as well.   They don’t know Andi is already dead.    If I have my timeline right (and I might not) by the time Duke and Claire show up at Andi’s house she is already dead.  

Burning everything down including The Mona Lisa is necessary because it piles so much on Miles that even his vast stupid wealth can’t get him out of it.   Even if it could get him away with murdering two people which Blanc thinks it could (The Shitheads at one point would back him up)  Burning down  one of the worlds most famous paintings with Klear would screw him over even under the best of circumstances.  Even if everyone points the finger at Helen, Miles is still responsible for the painting and he put in that release button against protocol which means whatever insurance he had would be void and he would have to pay millions of dollars not to mention his name would be ruined.  And when it got out that Helen used his wonder fuel to do it….well.    So destroying the painting was a necessary plot point to destroy Miles Bron.  

Edited January 3, 2023 by Chaos Theory

[scarynikki12]

12 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Burning everything down including The Mona Lisa is necessary because it piles so much on Miles that even his vast stupid wealth can’t get him out of it.   Even if it could get him away with murdering two people which Blanc thinks it could.  The Shitheads at one point would back him up.   Burning down the one of the worlds most famous paintings would with Klear would screw him over even under the best of circumstances.  Even if everyone points the finger at Helen, Miles is still responsible for the painting and he put in that release button against protocol which means whatever insurance he had world be void and he would have to pay millions of dollars not to mention his name would be ruined.  And when it got out that Helen used his wonder fuel to do it….well.    So destroying the painting was a necessary plot point to destroy Miles Bron

Since The Shitheads are going to lie for the truth regarding the murders I bet they say some debris fell on the failsafe (emphasizing how enthusiastically Miles was showing it off) and let Helen off the hook. 

[Enigma X]

I do have many questions about the movie but I do still like it.  It entertained me. 

[PurpleTentacle]

12 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Because: It would be too likely compared to the first one and found wanting; the critics would charge him with being a one-trick pony in the mystery genre; it would bore him to do the same movie again; templates are creative death; it's practically impossible for any creative to intend to catch lighting in a bottle and succeed--better to go out into the storm without a bottle and see where that takes you.

So no real reasons. Agatha Christie movies are always "the same" and nobody complains.

10 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Blanc said his Achilles heel are dumb things. He tells Helen he doesn't suspect Miles because, at this point in the story, he still thinks he's a complicated genius who would NEVER be stupid enough to kill Andi right after defeating her in court. Once he realized Miles IS that stupid all the pieces fell into place.

Which didn't make any sense. Miles won that court case. So he seemingly would have no motiv. There is no more logical point in time to kill Andi and make it look like a suicide, than shortly after she lost half of a billion dollar company in a court case.

So killing her shortly after the court case would be the smartest thing to do. Blanc saying the opposite is just bad writing.

10 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Regarding Klear, Miles got the hydrogen from a sketchy guy in Peru and wasn't willing to wait the necessary time needed to prove he wouldn't be doing a modern day Hindenburg. That's why Andi refused to put all of Alpha's resources towards it and walked away. It sounded like Lionel thought it had potential but he wanted a minimum of two years before even considering taking it public. Even the Glass Onion, which was being powered by Klear, went right up in flames the moment the hydrogen hit the fire. Miles saw an opportunity to achieve his Mona Lisa level immortality and was too impatient to make sure it would truly work.

And I explained already why none of that makes sense.

10 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Miles genuinely thought Andi was still alive at first. That's why he's so shocked to see her. He invited her to give himself an alibi for her murder. Since Miles didn't wait around to make sure she was really dead there was a chance she survived and came to the island to fuck with him. 

That's not the explaination Blanc gave in the movie.

10 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

Burning the Glass Onion and Mona Lisa were necessary to the story because both ruined Miles. He'd put all of Alpha's resources in Klear and created a modern day Hindenburg instead so he was going to lose his billions. Klear also burned up the most famous painting in the world which would lead to France coming for him at a minimum and Blanc specifically reminded the audience the painting is the property of the state so Miles is going to be in deeper shit than if it had been privately owned. The Shitheads finally deciding to lie for the truth and bury him for killing Andi and Duke was really just icing at that point but still good.

Why was that necessary? Again, they wouldn't be able to get Miles for Andi's murder, but getting him for Duke's murder and the attempted murder on Helen (he would be the only living person with GSR on him on that island) should be pretty easy. All that extra theatrics and destroying a priceless piece of art was just unecessary.

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, PurpleTentacle said:

but getting him for Duke's murder and the attempted murder on Helen (he would be the only living person with GSR on him on that island) should be pretty easy

Would it? The guy is a billionaire. If either of those cases actually went to trial his legal team would make the OJ dream team look like a bunch of public defenders (not to mention the trial would be even more of a circus). And with the Duke murder specifically I think it would be very hard to prove it wasn't an accident, especially with all the other people, including the victim, drinking.  Which is why I thought the Mona Lisa thing at the end was great, destroy him in the court of public opinion and you don't need to worry about things like reasonable doubt.

Edited January 4, 2023 by Kel Varnsen

[Milburn Stone]

2 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

So no real reasons. Agatha Christie movies are always "the same" and nobody complains.

"Real" or not, I bet they were among Rian Johnson's reasons.

[Captain Carrot]

29 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Which is why I thought the Mona Lisa thing at the end was great, destroy him in the court of public opinion and you don't need to worry about things like reasonable doubt.

Exactly, the only entities that could defeat a billionaire are governments, but they would have to be mad enough to not accept any bribes. Destroying the Mona Lisa would ensure that France would throw the book at Miles, and the fact that he ensured that he built an override for the fail safe would be proof that he was to blame.

Regarding Klear, I don't think that the movie was saying it was a horrible product. Just that it had the potential to be incredibly dangerous and needed to be tested to determine how to use safely. As an example, power plants could probably be designed that could use it safely. Using it in rockets or piping it into people's homes, not so much.

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, Captain Carrot said:

Exactly, the only entities that could defeat a billionaire are governments, but they would have to be mad enough to not accept any bribes. Destroying the Mona Lisa would ensure that France would throw the book at Miles, and the fact that he ensured that he built an override for the fail safe would be proof that he was to blame

Even in that case though if I was a French citizen I feel like I would be more pissed off with the government officials who decided it was a good idea to rent out the Mona Lisa. And with Miles's money he could make a trial last for years and probably never face any kind of punishment. But even without any kind of legal punishment his reputation (and probably his business) is completely ruined. 

[shapeshifter]

I don't recall the specifics of Miles arrangement to borrow the Mona Lisa, but if, say, it was for $2 billion, I'm guessing there was also a clause in the contract that stipulated that if the Mona Lisa was destroyed while in Mile's possession, that he would owe something like $1 trillion, which would likely bankrupt him for eternity.

That the Mona Lisa was destroyed because Miles added an override to the required failsafe protection would not only cancel any insurance payments, but also serve to ruin his reputation for eternity, including convicting him in the court of public opinion of the murder(s) for which he would be accused.

Even though I have been a student and devotee of Leonardo and the Mona Lisa since childhood, given that the real Mona Lisa will never again be shown up-close and not behind thick glass, and given that the Mona Lisa has been reproduced digitally and in print, this seems like a satisfying end to the painting's existence, and fitting too since most of Leonardo's works were destroyed.

Edited January 4, 2023 by shapeshifter

[Guest]

9 hours ago, PurpleTentacle said:

Why was that necessary? Again, they wouldn't be able to get Miles for Andi's murder, but getting him for Duke's murder and the attempted murder on Helen (he would be the only living person with GSR on him on that island) should be pretty easy. All that extra theatrics and destroying a priceless piece of art was just unecessary.

Doubtful given how much money he has. With a good defense there would be plenty of reasonable doubt and an abundance of witnesses saying what he wanted them to say. GSR is far from guaranteed. 

 

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

Even in that case though if I was a French citizen I feel like I would be more pissed off with the government officials who decided it was a good idea to rent out the Mona Lisa.

I think I’d have more than enough anger to be pissed at both. 

[Milburn Stone]

6 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

...given that the real Mona Lisa will never again be shown up-close and not behind thick glass, and given that the Mona Lisa has been reproduced digitally and in print, this seems like a satisfying end to the painting's existence...

Not to mention that it's too small in real life. What was Leonardo thinking?

[Chaos Theory]

I heard something once not sure how true it is…rich  people can get away with murder what they can’t do is get away with stealing from…or doing something that offends other rich people.    Killing a couple of let’s face it “his employees” he would have the trial of the century but would ultimately hang the jury or get that one person who didn’t want to put a “living genius” in prison for a “mistake” but by burning down the Mona Lisa he gets the the French Government on his ass and once that special button that removes the safety shield gets leaked anyone who might have felt sorry for him even a little will turn on him for  “his arrogance”. It will be like the College cheating scandal or Bernie Madoff.  You don’t mess with other rich people.    That is a death sentence.  

Edited January 4, 2023 by Chaos Theory

[angora]

Loved it. I can't say at the moment how I'd compare it to the first one, but that's okay. They both deliver the same sort of thing but in different enough ways that both are wonderfully entertaining in their own right.

I guessed chunks of the mystery but didn't have it all put together. Here are a few things I felt smart for noticing:

• Miles's malapropisms (a la "this is the infraction point") stood out to me right away. I was reminded of Shakespeare characters like Dogberry in Much Ado about Nothing.
• In the ramp-up of tension prior to Duke's murder, I picked up on the way Miles diverted everyone's attention by transparently instructing them all to look at Birdie dancing.
• As soon as Duke was in distress, I knew it had to be the pineapple.

I got such a kick out of Blanc immediately solving/ruining the murder mystery game, and I liked the running bit that he wasn't any good at "dumb" games--as someone pointed out upthread, that's why it took him most of the movie to realize what Miles had done (coupled with him buying into the Miles=genius thing.) Loved Andi/Helen smashing the puzzle box at the beginning. I like that it's explained in-story by Helen not knowing how to solve the puzzles but it made just as much sense initially for Andi to have zero time for Miles's self-impressed bullshit. I also really laughed at Lionel venting to the Alpha board about all the absurd ideas Miles would fax to him and expect him to bring to fruition. One of them was something like "translation chips in dogs=discourse"? lol

It's a little detail, but I loved that Blanc's husband/partner Philip was wearing an apron and dusted with flour when he came to the door. It was May of 2020--while Blanc was spending his quarantine playing games over Zoom in the bathtub, Philip was getting super into baking! (Side note: Philip calling him "Blanc" was really cute to me. I'd totally watch a murder-mystery rom-com about how they met.)

[shapeshifter]

48 minutes ago, angora said:

…a few things I felt smart for noticing:

• Miles's malapropisms (a la "this is the infraction point") stood out to me right away…

I too noticed Miles’ misuse of technical terminology.  
Was that obvious to most viewers?

[ursula]

On 1/3/2023 at 7:02 AM, Chaos Theory said:

Directors/show runners like to experiment.  Making the same movie over and over and over again even in the same franchise does  get tedious. So switching it up from a straight up mystery to a mystery comedy was a fun idea.   It worked for me as I compare it to shows like Leverage and. Movies like Clue.   This is what happened folks and this is how it was done…..and half the fun is watching everyone fumble around in the dark.  

Aren't they both mystery comedies? I don't remember much about the first movie but Benoit's accent is a running joke across both films. 

They also have the same principle - there's the mystery of Who Killed The Victim; and there's the mystery of What Is Watson (Benoit's sidekick in both movies) Really Up To? In this second movie, the twist is we don't know who the Watson character is until halfway through the movie, but it still comes down to the same thing. 

I'm not really sure what people were expecting different. Maybe the social commentary? 

[Ohiopirate02]

3 hours ago, angora said:

It's a little detail, but I loved that Blanc's husband/partner Philip was wearing an apron and dusted with flour when he came to the door. It was May of 2020--while Blanc was spending his quarantine playing games over Zoom in the bathtub, Philip was getting super into baking! (Side note: Philip calling him "Blanc" was really cute to me. I'd totally watch a murder-mystery rom-com about how they met.)

Philip also had his jar of sourdough starter in hand when he answered the door.  I loved that little bit.  I am also going to need the next movie to have more Philip.  I really want to know if he is as snazzy of a dresser as our dear Benoit.  

[DearEvette]

Regarding Andi getting the invitation box from Miles:

I think Andi got the invitation legitimately.  I don't think it had anything to do with Miles trying to give himself an alibi or it was some plan by Miles. She simply got the box like everyone else.

The timeline of events is very tight.  Miles said to Blanc that the boxes took a very long time to make and were barely finished in time for them to get sent out. 

The trial ended in March. So my guess is that Miles sent the order for five boxes to be made way before the trial and before Andi was no longer part of the 'Disruptors.' There is no way for him to have one made and sent to Andi after he killed her to establish alibi because he wouldn't have had enough time to do it.  Whiskey's birthday was May 9th.  Andi sent the emails on May 11th.  So Miles had to have killed her sometime after May 11th.  They got the boxes on May 13th. 

It has been established that Miles is not smart and is not a details person.  So after the trial he probably legitimately forgot he had a box made to be sent to Andi.  He doesn't even think to question how Blanc got one, he just took Blanc's suggestion that one of the existing boxes got reset and sent to him. 

He probably didn't wait to see if she was really dead (again, not a details guy) so he was really shocked when he saw her show up.  He probably thought he just botched the job but at this point, he had no reason to try to hurt her again.  He knew he had the real napkin now and he had the Shitheads in his pocket, Andi had lost credibility publicly, so there was nothing she could really do to hurt him. 

It wasn't until Duke showed him that Andi was really dead that it clicked that it was Helen and he had no idea what she knew or how she could hurt him. That is when he tried to kill her.  Otherwise, there was no reason to try to kill Helen either.  But she was a wild card. 

Regards the ending and the shitheads:

I re-watched this with my husband last night and he made a good point that I had not really considered.  He said the only reason the shitheads turned on Miles (finally) was because he was now an irrefutable liability to them.  No other reason.  It wasn't that they knew he had murdered both Andi and Duke which would normally have been an unforgivable line.  It was because he was now so tainted by being attached to the destruction of the Mona Lisa that sticking with him would bad for them.  They really are shitheads.

[Bastet]

16 hours ago, Captain Carrot said:

Using it in rockets or piping it into people's homes, not so much.

Manned rockets, no less -- that was the objection, continuing the theme of the conflict between those who saw potential but wanted extensive testing and Miles who'd screw Andi out of her equal share of the company in order to bet it all, right now.

15 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

But even without any kind of legal punishment his reputation (and probably his business) is completely ruined. 

Which is the ultimate failure for him - the court is just one of the means to his legacy end - which is what makes the ending delicious, despite the inevitable plot holes in getting there.

4 hours ago, angora said:

Loved Andi/Helen smashing the puzzle box at the beginning. I like that it's explained in-story by Helen not knowing how to solve the puzzles but it made just as much sense initially for Andi to have zero time for Miles's self-impressed bullshit.

Same here.  It became a plot point, of course, with the Helen reveal, but it also, back when things were taken at face value, gave me my first LOL moment of the film when "Andi" was so different from the others, just taking a hammer to the damn thing rather than conference calling a handful of people to take the time brainstorming what the "complicated genius" (see below) has created now.

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I too noticed Miles’ misuse of technical terminology.  
Was that obvious to most viewers?

I noticed all of them, and I like that it later works as part of the reveal this guy isn't a complicated genius (with flashes of brilliance so bright - and profitable - they make up for all the weird, useless things that spring forth from the same brain and are quickly shut down) given the benefit of the doubt because he's a rich white dude, but also isn't a neon sign right from jump that this guy is just a straight-up idiot with no good ideas, at least of his own.

[wanderingstar]

Just watched this, and I absolutely loved it. I adored Knives Out, and this is a more than worthy sequel.

Some of my favorites

"I hired Gillian Flynn to write this."

"Oh, she's quite good."

 

"If I ever meet Jared Leto, I'll whoop his kombucha-brewin' ass."

 

"It's so dumb it's brilliant."

"No, it's just dumb!"

[Cress]

On 1/3/2023 at 12:28 AM, PurpleTentacle said:

On 11/27/2022 at 10:29 PM, Cress said:

Another thing I thought of--the company is referred to as Alpha but we constantly see a logo which looks like the Greek letter Omega.

It's a stylised A. Again, Miles is an idiot.

No I'm not talking about the A. I'm talking about the omega. This is the stylized A for Alpha:

I'm talking about the Omega on the yacht, and on Claire's bathrobe:

[MissAlmond]

On 12/24/2022 at 10:16 PM, SomeTameGazelle said:

It wins just based on the reduction in vomiting.

I agree! I enjoyed both movies but using vomiting as a huge plot point in the first was something I could do without. 

[krankydoodle]

I'm lukewarm on this movie, but I did enjoy a lot of the funny bits. One thing that I don't think I've seen mentioned is that Miles says Gillian Flynn's name wrong. When it happened, I thought it was strange that they would a mistake like that, but then we learn more about Miles and realize that it's really just his character not caring enough to get it right.

[MisterGlass]

13 hours ago, Cress said:

No I'm not talking about the A. I'm talking about the omega. This is the stylized A for Alpha:

Omega is probably a subsidiary of Alpha, like Google, Waymo, and X Development are subsidiaries of Alphabet.  Maybe all the Alpha subsidiaries are Greek letters.

That might be a subtle Covid-time joke.  I wonder if Alpha's Delta and Omicron subsidiaries are suffering.

[scarynikki12]

Alpha and Omega are also associated with Jesus so it speaks to Miles' desire for immortality and believe he was about to achieve it.

[Cress]

11 hours ago, MisterGlass said:

Omega is probably a subsidiary of Alpha, like Google, Waymo, and X Development are subsidiaries of Alphabet.  Maybe all the Alpha subsidiaries are Greek letters

Well I thought I heard the news reporter refer to all the subsidiaries as Alpha. Alpha Cars, Alpha Shop, etc. I think the Omega means something else. Yeah, I definitely thought about Alpha Omega symbolism. When I talked to my sister, she said someone on Youtube called the Omega symbol a glass onion. I'm not convinced.

[shapeshifter]

40 minutes ago, Cress said:

Well I thought I heard the news reporter refer to all the subsidiaries as Alpha. Alpha Cars, Alpha Shop, etc. I think the Omega means something else. Yeah, I definitely thought about Alpha Omega symbolism. When I talked to my sister, she said someone on Youtube called the Omega symbol a glass onion. I'm not convinced.

Isn't it just all part of the bits of dialog that tell us Miles doesn't even have a grasp of the language of technology, much less any knowledge of how the technology works?

[Cress]

1 hour ago, shapeshifter said:

Isn't it just all part of the bits of dialog that tell us Miles doesn't even have a grasp of the language of technology, much less any knowledge of how the technology works?

Yes that was my original point. In my first post I asked something like, "Is it a sign of Miles's stupidity" that he's using Omega instead of Alpha symbols on his yacht and everything? Someone else said it was a A, so I put up screenshots to show it is most definitely not an A I'm talking about.

Edited January 7, 2023 by Cress