Working Girl (1988)

[Hiyo]

Given that there is a reboot in the works, here is a thread for the original.

Edited August 16, 2022 by Hiyo

[raven]

Quotable lines not in the trailer:

"Six THOUSAND dollars??!!  It's not even LEATHA!"

"You're like one of those cops nobody wants to ride with!"  I laugh at this every time.

I know the movie gets criticized because of the relationship between Tess and Katharine (what boss wouldn't steal use a subordinate's good idea - also, Sigourney Weaver steals her scenes) but, as much fun as she is, it's really Cynthia I have a problem with.  She keeps pushing Tess to give Mick a chance, even though Tess caught him having sex with someone else in their bed!!  Ugh.   Admittedly, young Alec Baldwin is super hot in this movie but ugh, really, Cyn?  Tess even calls her out on it but Cyn is still "he's so saddd....I want my wedding to be perfect blah blah". 

Other than that, total fun fantasy.

[Conotocarious]

One of my favorite movies ever.

”I think so…we’re in the same city now, I’ve indicated that I’m receptive to an offer, I’ve cleared the month of June and I am after all, me.”

i have this movie completely memorized.

[Hiyo]

Quote

it's really Cynthia I have a problem with

Yeah, but for the most part, I liked Cyn overall. I liked how she was otherwise supportive of Tess with regards to everything else. And unlike other movies like The Devil Wears Prada, I'm glad we didn't have any forced scenes of conflict between Tess and Cyn. Glad we didn't waste time on scenes like this:

Cyn: Tess, you've totally changed, you're becoming more like Katherine every day!

Tess: No I'm not! I'm still the same person I have always been, it's just this job is so tough...

Cyn: But I never see you anymore! You're always too busy for your friends and family...

Tess: Ok, I promise, I will be there at the next family/friend event I am invited to.

Instead we got "Coffee, tea, me?", which, thank God.

And yes, Sigourney Weaver definitely did steal all of her scenes.

[Shannon L.]

11 hours ago, Conotocarious said:

One of my favorite movies ever.

”I think so…we’re in the same city now, I’ve indicated that I’m receptive to an offer, I’ve cleared the month of June and I am after all, me.”

i have this movie completely memorized.

That's probably my favorite quote. 

I love this movie, too.  I pretty much agree with all of the posts so far.  I'll add that I love the moment when Jack is cleaning up and changing his shirt in his office and everyone is watching him.  The applause and his response to it told me that he was a good person to work for (and not because he changes in his office 😄 ).  He's obviously a nice person, with a good sense of humor, whom they feel comfortable with.

I also love the final scene between Tess and her new secretary.  You knew that she was going to be great boss, too.

[AstaCharles]

Shout out to Cyn's eyeshadow. There's a scene where she's talking to Tess, and you can see about 5  shades ..like green , gold , pink and purple..amazing

[RunningMarket]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:42 AM, AstaCharles said:

Shout out to Cyn's eyeshadow. There's a scene where she's talking to Tess, and you can see about 5  shades ..like green , gold , pink and purple..amazing

Joan Cusak's eye makeup in this movie is a work of art. It should be hung in museums, and universities should offer classes in its study.

[ChicksDigScars]

Cyn: "Sometimes, I dance around my apartment in my underwear...doesn't make me Madonna, never will." I guess in a remake, this line will be Beyonce instead of Madonna? You know, so Gen Z will know who the fuck they're talking about.

[Bastet]

On 8/17/2022 at 7:29 AM, Shannon L. said:

I also love the final scene between Tess and her new secretary. 

Played by the fantastic Amy Aquino.

I have never re-watched this movie since I saw it when it first came out, so I just have very scattered memories (of Tess with Sigourney Weaver, Joan Cusack, and Amy Aquino's characters -- other than the highly-publicized "mind for business and body for sin" scene, I don't remember anything of her with Harrison Ford's character [the romantic relationship is almost always the least-interesting part of any film to me]), but that one is emblazoned on my mind.

I like when Amy Aquino says if it's okay with Tess, she prefers "assistant" (not "secretary") and then love Tess's response to her saying they should go over what Tess expects of her:  "I expect you to call me Tess.  I don't expect you to get me coffee unless you're getting some for yourself.  And the rest we'll just make up as we go along."

So simple, yet almost revolutionary. 

And then she calls Joan Cusack to say "Guess where I am" and Carly Simon's fantastic "Let the River Run" kicks in again as it had at the beginning -- terrific ending!  I'll have to take another look at everything in between one of these days.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Bastet

[Hiyo]

I liked Tess and Jack together. They had nice, fun, breezy chemistry together. I like that he overall treated her with respect and wasn't condescending towards her, and seemed to support her. And I like that, for the romcom aspect, they avoided the cheesy trope of them starting out as "two people who were annoyed by or hated each other but you know they will end up together" cliche...they actually seemed like two real adults.

I always liked this exchange between them during the "bod for sin" scene:

Tess: Ok, one drink, but I'm buying.

Jack: Ok, but it's an open bar.

Tess: Right, I knew that, I meant that if it wasn't I'd be buying.

Quote

So simple, yet almost revolutionary. 

It was a nice way to end the movie, to show that Tess did learn from her experience with Katharine, and that you knew she would end up being a good boss.

[txhorns79]

On 8/17/2022 at 1:26 AM, Hiyo said:

And yes, Sigourney Weaver definitely did steal all of her scenes.

Sigourney Weaver was a tour de force in that movie.  I always loved it when she's hobbled in the Swiss hospital, whispering her door code to Tess as though one of these people in Switzerland is going to find out where she lives and break into her home.  

I do also side eye Katherine when it is established that she and Tess are both supposed to have just turned 30.  Sigourney Weaver is a beautiful woman, but she looks much closer to 40 in that movie than she does 30.   

[JustHereForFood]

What a coincidence. I just saw this for the first time a few weeks ago. For some reason, I never saw it on TV like many other classic romcoms.

I liked it a lot, especially the ending scene. When she realizes what her new job is, I teared up a bit.

My only two problems were:

On 8/17/2022 at 2:34 AM, raven said:

it's really Cynthia I have a problem with.  She keeps pushing Tess to give Mick a chance, even though Tess caught him having sex with someone else in their bed!!  Ugh.   Admittedly, young Alec Baldwin is super hot in this movie but ugh, really, Cyn?  Tess even calls her out on it but Cyn is still "he's so saddd....I want my wedding to be perfect blah blah". 

This (disagree about Baldwin, bleh). And the scene when he proposed in front of his girlfriend? Ugh, I can't believe she stayed with him.

Second problem was with how nonchalant Tess was about the idea that she might have had spent the night with a total stranger after being completely out due to those drugs she took earlier. I get that it was a different time, but still, I would have expected her to be more freaked out that someone would take advantage of her like that.

[JAYJAY1979]

I liked that Tess took the one positive of working with Katherine (calling her by her first name), with the promise that she would actually practice what she preaches unlike Katherine.. who did have a warm and positive vibe when Tess first started.

Cyn is an interesting view of 1988 trends being thrown onto one person without seeing what works and doesn't work.  The eye makeup, the huge lion's mane of hair on front and flat in the back.. and the interesting leopard/quirky colors with a mini shirt/leggings.

Tess was a more muted version of what Cyn wore, yet it wasn't over the top except for the puffy long hair.... even Katherine said she looked great minus the big clunky jewelry.

[starri]

One of, if not the, most well-deserved Oscars for Original Song.

It's also one of those rare movies that, no matter how bad a day I'm having, it can always make it better.

[Conotocarious]

On 8/25/2022 at 8:57 PM, JAYJAY1979 said:

I liked that Tess took the one positive of working with Katherine (calling her by her first name), with the promise that she would actually practice what she preaches unlike Katherine.. who did have a warm and positive vibe when Tess first started.

Cyn is an interesting view of 1988 trends being thrown onto one person without seeing what works and doesn't work.  The eye makeup, the huge lion's mane of hair on front and flat in the back.. and the interesting leopard/quirky colors with a mini shirt/leggings.

Tess was a more muted version of what Cyn wore, yet it wasn't over the top except for the puffy long hair.... even Katherine said she looked great minus the big clunky jewelry.

“You look terrific….you might want to rethink the jewelry”

I’ll just be over here providing random quotes.

On 8/24/2022 at 10:55 AM, txhorns79 said:

Sigourney Weaver was a tour de force in that movie.  I always loved it when she's hobbled in the Swiss hospital, whispering her door code to Tess as though one of these people in Switzerland is going to find out where she lives and break into her home.  

I do also side eye Katherine when it is established that she and Tess are both supposed to have just turned 30.  Sigourney Weaver is a beautiful woman, but she looks much closer to 40 in that movie than she does 30.   

She was like a Whitley Gilbert 30. If you wear that kind of clothing constantly (a bit like Kate Middleton honestly) it will age the heck out of you, classy or not.

[Scarlett45]

On 8/24/2022 at 7:36 PM, JustHereForFood said:

What a coincidence. I just saw this for the first time a few weeks ago. For some reason, I never saw it on TV like many other classic romcoms.

I know! There must’ve been some sort of distribution deal because I never saw this moving growing up on WGN where I saw a lot of 80s romcoms on Saturday/Sunday evening. I never even heard of it until my friends reviewed it for their podcast. 
 

It’s so good! I liked it a lot. 

On 8/27/2022 at 1:00 PM, Conotocarious said:

She was like a Whitley Gilbert 30. If you wear that kind of clothing constantly (a bit like Kate Middleton honestly) it will age the heck out of you, classy or not.

She was 39 when the movie came out so that makes sense. I also think Sigourney Weaver just had a harsher face compared to Melanie Griffith- Sigourney looked “mature” early but stayed looking the same age FOREVER until her hair greyed. Similar to Angie Harmon. She looked 40 at 20 and stayed that way for 25yrs. 
 

The only problem I had with this movie was the “Caribbean wedding”. I cringed. But I still like it. 
 

Okay I have a question, in all of the ADOS (American descendants of slavery) people I know who were adults in the 80’s, “working girl” was a euphemism for sex work. I assume that wasn’t the case in the USA in general??? I told my Mom about this movie and she asked was it about a woman getting out of sex work!

[Sarah 103]

23 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Okay I have a question, in all of the ADOS (American descendants of slavery) people I know who were adults in the 80’s, “working girl” was a euphemism for sex work. I assume that wasn’t the case in the USA in general??? I told my Mom about this movie and she asked was it about a woman getting out of sex work!

At some point in US history, "working girl" meant sex work/prostitution to the wide/general population, and then overtime the phrase changed meaning, but I have no idea when the shift occurred.

[Bastet]

22 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Okay I have a question, in all of the ADOS (American descendants of slavery) people I know who were adults in the 80’s, “working girl” was a euphemism for sex work. I assume that wasn’t the case in the USA in general???

Oh yeah, it was.  It just also later came to be used for women who had to/wanted to work rather than being housewives.

[Scarlett45]

2 minutes ago, Bastet said:

Oh yeah, it was.  It just also later came to be used for women who had to/wanted to work rather than being housewives.

Oh okay THANKS. So the title is tongue and cheek. 

4 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

At some point in US history, "working girl" meant sex work/prostitution to the wide/general population, and then overtime the phrase changed meaning, but I have no idea when the shift occurred.

Thanks. 

[Miss Anne Thrope]

9 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

The only problem I had with this movie was the “Caribbean wedding”. I cringed. But I still like it. 
 

I think we're supposed to cringe at the wedding (along with saying "Hey, it's Ricki Lake!") -- high society excess and tone-deafness is kind of its own character in parts of WG.   

(and, keep an eye out for David Duchovny at Tess's surprise party)

I've lost count of how many times I've seen Working Girl, and it never gets old, even with some of the oh-so-80s fashions.

[ctlady]

On 8/18/2022 at 1:22 PM, ChicksDigScars said:

I guess in a remake, this line will be Beyonce instead of Madonna? You know, so Gen Z will know who the fuck they're talking about.

I don't care if you crawled out from under a rock on another planet - you know who Madonna is!

I'm stoked to see a thread for this.  This movie is always a 'go to' whenever I see uploaded On Demand or elsewhere.  Lots of awesome quotes:

On 8/16/2022 at 8:34 PM, raven said:

"Six THOUSAND dollars??!!  It's not even LEATHA!"

Of course I said this in my head - complete with the accent.  But...."It needs some bows or somethin'"

On 8/16/2022 at 10:31 PM, Conotocarious said:

”I think so…we’re in the same city now, I’ve indicated that I’m receptive to an offer, I’ve cleared the month of June and I am after all, me.”

i have this movie completely memorized.

Me too.  And SW delivered that line with such belief and confidence in herself that you couldn't hate her narcissism.

On 8/16/2022 at 8:34 PM, raven said:

it's really Cynthia I have a problem with.  She keeps pushing Tess to give Mick a chance, even though Tess caught him having sex with someone else in their bed!!  Ugh.   Admittedly, young Alec Baldwin is super hot in this movie but ugh, really, Cyn?  Tess even calls her out on it but Cyn is still "he's so saddd....I want my wedding to be perfect blah blah".

Really!  "Throw him a bone, will ya?  I want happy humans here tonight".  Wonder if Cyn would be singing the same tune if she caught Tim poppin' Doreen DiMucci in their bed.  As good of a friend she appeared to be, she was absolutely selfish and heartless here.  AND she expected Tess to allow Mick to make it up to her.  

On 8/18/2022 at 1:11 PM, RunningMarket said:

Joan Cusak's eye makeup in this movie is a work of art. It should be hung in museums, and universities should offer classes in its study.

Along with her sprayed-to-the sky hairdo.  AND those bridesmaids gowns.  Definitely belong in an 80s museum

On 8/24/2022 at 10:55 AM, txhorns79 said:

Sigourney Weaver was a tour de force in that movie.  I always loved it when she's hobbled in the Swiss hospital, whispering her door code to Tess as though one of these people in Switzerland is going to find out where she lives and break into her home

Nah - they were only concerned with trying to stare up her gown.

On 8/17/2022 at 10:29 AM, Shannon L. said:

I'll add that I love the moment when Jack is cleaning up and changing his shirt in his office and everyone is watching him.  The applause and his response to it told me that he was a good person to work for (and not because he changes in his office 😄 ).  He's obviously a nice person, with a good sense of humor, whom they feel comfortable with.

And that little hip dance he does when he's caught.  

10 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

“working girl” was a euphemism for sex work. I assume that wasn’t the case in the USA in general??? I told my Mom about this movie and she asked was it about a woman getting out of sex work!

I don't think the title 'Working Woman' would've had the same appeal.

On 8/24/2022 at 8:36 PM, JustHereForFood said:

Second problem was with how nonchalant Tess was about the idea that she might have had spent the night with a total stranger after being completely out due to those drugs she took earlier. I get that it was a different time, but still, I would have expected her to be more freaked out that someone would take advantage of her like that.

Well, she did wake up in her full underwear garb rather than stark naked.  And (and I'm just assuming here) that if Jack take advantage of her, she may have had some telltale signs like maybe soreness?

Some other quotables:

"I have a head for business, and a bod for sin"

"I not going to spend the rest of my life working my ass off and getting nowhere because I followed rules I had nothing to do with setting up, okay?"

"You can bend the rules plenty once you get upstairs, but not while you're trying to get there.  And if you're someone like me you can't get there without bending the rules"

"Valium.  In the convenient, economy size"

"You look good.  Classy. What'd you have to go to traffic court or somethin'?"

"You can't busy the quarterback with passing out the Gatorade"

"You're the first woman I've seen at one of these things that dresses like a woman - not like a man would dress if he were a woman"

And a lot of familiar faces - some who were unknown at the time:  Kevin Spacey, David Duchovney, Olympia Dukakis, Oliver Platt, Nora Dunn

[JustHereForFood]

13 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I know! There must’ve been some sort of distribution deal because I never saw this moving growing up on WGN where I saw a lot of 80s romcoms on Saturday/Sunday evening. I never even heard of it until my friends reviewed it for their podcast. 

I first heard about it on Supergirl, when Kara said I think, that the ending always makes her cry. I thought, hm, I guess it's a movie they expect everyone to know about.

[Scarlett45]

Just now, JustHereForFood said:

I first heard about it on Supergirl, when Kara said I think, that the ending always makes her cry. I thought, hm, I guess it's a movie they expect everyone to know about.

I watched tons of 70s and 80s Rom Coms on WGN (channel 9/the wb in Chicago) in the 90s on Saturday and Sunday afternoons growing up- never heard of this. Never saw it on cable either. I don't recall it showing up in pop culture at all. But its so cute and has many big name stars....I felt like I had been living under a rock.

[Conotocarious]

15 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

The only problem I had with this movie was the “Caribbean wedding”. I cringed. But I still like it. 

“Do you love it or do you hate it?”

”love it?”

”So do I! But Mark thinks it looks like Nicaragua and that we're making some kind of statement.”

“oh no! It’s like paradise. It’s like a paradise with little gold palm trees.”

[Anela]

I love this movie. It was out when I was a kid. I love the reference to it in Gilmore Girls, too. "Jogging shoes? What's up, Working girl?!" 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Anela

[JAYJAY1979]

On 8/28/2022 at 10:13 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I know! There must’ve been some sort of distribution deal because I never saw this moving growing up on WGN where I saw a lot of 80s romcoms on Saturday/Sunday evening. I never even heard of it until my friends reviewed it for their podcast. 
 

It’s so good! I liked it a lot. 

She was 39 when the movie came out so that makes sense. I also think Sigourney Weaver just had a harsher face compared to Melanie Griffith- Sigourney looked “mature” early but stayed looking the same age FOREVER until her hair greyed. Similar to Angie Harmon. She looked 40 at 20 and stayed that way for 25yrs. 
 

The only problem I had with this movie was the “Caribbean wedding”. I cringed. But I still like it. 
 

Okay I have a question, in all of the ADOS (American descendants of slavery) people I know who were adults in the 80’s, “working girl” was a euphemism for sex work. I assume that wasn’t the case in the USA in general??? I told my Mom about this movie and she asked was it about a woman getting out of sex work!

In the movie, Tess had business acumen..but was held back from being taken seriously due to her gender and being an assistant.

In fact, her male boss at the start arranged a meeting for her with a male executive.  And during the limo ride, the creepy male executive kept hitting on her, showed a porno, and admitted he wasn't looking for an assistant.  And she promptly exits the limo, calls her boss a pimp, and quit.

So I do think the movie makers knew of the history of that phrase...and also showed how under the surface of 80s corporate culture...there was that element still ingrained.

[Raja]

On 8/28/2022 at 7:13 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Okay I have a question, in all of the ADOS (American descendants of slavery) people I know who were adults in the 80’s, “working girl” was a euphemism for sex work. I assume that wasn’t the case in the USA in general??? I told my Mom about this movie and she asked was it about a woman getting out of sex work!

About 2 years before Working Girl there was a documentary style movie of a day in the life of a working girl at her brothel called Working Girls (1986) already in the video rental stores. I wonder how many thought they had an early VHS and then saw they had the politics of prostitutes, the house mom and their clients if they sat through the movie.

[ChicksDigScars]

“Look, you, maybe you've got everyone around here fooled with this saint act you have going, but do not ever speak to me again like we don't know what really happened, you got me?" 

I have actually USED this line in an argument. 

[Conotocarious]

“Now get your bony ass out of my sight!”

[Ms Blue Jay]

Has anyone posted about the scene in The Office?

If you haven't seen the ending of Working Girl don't click:

[ctlady]

On 8/30/2022 at 2:31 PM, JAYJAY1979 said:

In the movie, Tess had business acumen..but was held back from being taken seriously due to her gender and being an assistant

Assistant, maybe, but not solely her gender.  What I believe held Tess back was her breathless, kitten voice, the way she dressed, frizzy 80s hair and tacky jewelry.   I've been in many corporate meetings with both men and women - even in the 80s - and, other than the big shoulder pads that were the stylish rage, I've never come across anyone in an executive position who dressed like Tess - or (gasp!) Cyn. 

What's that phrase - "dress for the job you want, not the job you have".  And ditto to Katherine quoting Coco Chanel "dress shabbily they notice the dress. Dress impeccably, they notice the woman".  She was direct with Tess without being too insulting ("you look terrific, but you may want to rethink the jewelry")  She put the ball in Tess' court to decide how much she wanted to pare down

[Shannon L.]

2 hours ago, ctlady said:

What I believe held Tess back was her breathless, kitten voice, the way she dressed, frizzy 80s hair and tacky jewelry. 

I was thinking about this the other day.  She didn't use it all the time, but when she did, it drove me crazy.  Good point about that and the way she was presenting herself. 

[JAYJAY1979]

5 hours ago, ctlady said:

Assistant, maybe, but not solely her gender.  What I believe held Tess back was her breathless, kitten voice, the way she dressed, frizzy 80s hair and tacky jewelry.   I've been in many corporate meetings with both men and women - even in the 80s - and, other than the big shoulder pads that were the stylish rage, I've never come across anyone in an executive position who dressed like Tess - or (gasp!) Cyn. 

What's that phrase - "dress for the job you want, not the job you have".  And ditto to Katherine quoting Coco Chanel "dress shabbily they notice the dress. Dress impeccably, they notice the woman".  She was direct with Tess without being too insulting ("you look terrific, but you may want to rethink the jewelry")  She put the ball in Tess' court to decide how much she wanted to pare down

When she got rid of the jewelry, cut her hair and changed her wardrobe..people took her seriously.  Sometimes she would lower her voice when in meetings (which was her natural voice).

I've never known anyone to dress like Cyn lol

[Bellatrix]

On 8/29/2022 at 5:36 PM, JustHereForFood said:

I first heard about it on Supergirl, when Kara said I think, that the ending always makes her cry. I thought, hm, I guess it's a movie they expect everyone to know about.

Exactly the same here, except it was Friends.

(Charlie, Rachel and Phoebe are shopping, Charlie asks Rachel where the jackets with the shoulder pads are, and Rachel replies: "On Melanie Griffith in Working Girl.)

[Conotocarious]

On 8/16/2022 at 1:06 PM, Hiyo said:

Given that there is a reboot in the works, here is a thread for the original.

Ok at least half of that trailer isn’t even in the final movie. I want to see the deleted scenes!

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 9/14/2022 at 3:33 PM, Bellatrix said:

Exactly the same here, except it was Friends.

(Charlie, Rachel and Phoebe are shopping, Charlie asks Rachel where the jackets with the shoulder pads are, and Rachel replies: "On Melanie Griffith in Working Girl.)

Thank you.  Rachel is totally my favourite and I didn't even remember that line.  I gotta rewatch that season.  

[Bellatrix]

On 9/30/2022 at 6:36 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

Thank you.  Rachel is totally my favourite and I didn't even remember that line.  I gotta rewatch that season.  

You're welcome 😊 You should! For being a later season, it's surprisingly fun. The whole Charlie arc is really fun, and the episodes in Barbados are particular favourites of mine!

[txhorns79]

On 9/12/2022 at 12:41 PM, ctlady said:

Assistant, maybe, but not solely her gender.  What I believe held Tess back was her breathless, kitten voice, the way she dressed, frizzy 80s hair and tacky jewelry.   I've been in many corporate meetings with both men and women - even in the 80s - and, other than the big shoulder pads that were the stylish rage, I've never come across anyone in an executive position who dressed like Tess - or (gasp!) Cyn. 

I viewed it as a class thing (i.e. the accent, clothes, Staten Island and big hair) getting her degree via night school, not knowing how to control her temper and working as a secretary.  Compare that to Katherine who went to Wellesley, dressed impeccably, could deal with lecherous men without causing a scene and came from a wealthy background.  

[Dr.OO7]

On 10/3/2022 at 2:30 PM, txhorns79 said:

I viewed it as a class thing (i.e. the accent, clothes, Staten Island and big hair) getting her degree via night school, not knowing how to control her temper and working as a secretary.  Compare that to Katherine who went to Wellesley, dressed impeccably, could deal with lecherous men without causing a scene and came from a wealthy background.  

Exactly. Tess herself said it when talking with Trask at the end, that someone like her HAS to bend the rules to get her foot in the door.

[ctlady]

On 10/6/2022 at 8:55 AM, Dr.OO7 said:

Exactly. Tess herself said it when talking with Trask at the end, that someone like her HAS to bend the rules to get her foot in the door

But what exactly does 'someone like her' mean?  Education?  Looks?  Upbringing? Professionalism?  

Tess definitely had the smarts, the drive and the ambition - no question.  But package that inside big hair, patterned tights, stilettos, garish makeup and clunky, noisy jewelry and chances are the former qualities will be buried under the latter external appearance.  And, like it or not, outward appearance is what's initially seen during a first impression - not business acumen, the ability to command a roomful of colleagues or even an impressive college resume.  Tess was who she was on the outside, but didn't change that to match the ultimate career path she wanted.  She obviously felt the way she spoke could hinder her being taken seriously - thus speech class.  So why did she continue with the tacky wardrobe which obviously appeared to only invite the kind of unprofessional attention she didn't want (and from a  young and unknown Kevin Spacey at the time!)

Katherine was a back-stabbing, ladder climbing shark - but her business suits, wool coat, leather gloves and quilted, chained handbag and smooth talk allowed her to disguise that.  All coming back to "dress shabbily they notice the dress....." or 'dress for the job you want, not the job you have' quotes  

Only when Tess has the opportunity to step into Katherine's world (and her wardrobe which magically fit her!) was Tess able to be taken seriously - regardless of what her educational background or socio-economic upbringing

[txhorns79]

18 minutes ago, ctlady said:

Only when Tess has the opportunity to step into Katherine's world (and her wardrobe which magically fit her!)

Heee!  I always smiled when Tess starts raiding Katherine's wardrobe.  I think Katherine was a few inches taller and had a more slender figure than Tess. 

21 minutes ago, ctlady said:

All coming back to "dress shabbily they notice the dress....." or 'dress for the job you want, not the job you have' quotes  

When she wasn't being awful, Katherine's advice about how to dress and react to ghoulish men (today's junior prick is tomorrow's senior partner) was pretty good. 

[Madding crowd]

I love the movie but it always drove me crazy that Tess could wear Katherine’s clothes and the outfits hit at the right length when Katherine was about five inches taller and thinner. I also never thought Tess’ idea about Trask seemed worth such a big fuss and/or required input and assistance from Jack.

[Hiyo]

I think she maybe needed him more for his experience and possible connections.

[Miss Anne Thrope]

Katharine was originally going to approach Jack about working together on the deal, so I assumed that's why Tess took that route.  (Tess found out about Katharine's betrayal by listening to the tape while riding the bike, including the memo to Jack with the notation, "don't go through Tess...")  Katharine may have had ulterior motives in cozying up even closer to Jack by working together, or even she -- very connected in her own right -- may have needed his connections or input to successfully close the deal.  

Edited October 31, 2022 by Miss Anne Thrope

[ctlady]

On 10/31/2022 at 2:09 AM, Hiyo said:

I think she maybe needed him more for his experience and possible connections.

On 10/31/2022 at 8:22 AM, Miss Anne Thrope said:

Katharine may have had ulterior motives in cozying up even closer to Jack by working together, or even she -- very connected in her own right -- may have needed his connections or input to successfully close the deal.

It may have been implied, but I believe Jack's firm - Dewey, Stone & Co - specialized in media.  I couldn't find the YT clip of when Tess discovers Katherine's email to Jack, but I believe there's a part where it says, " I know Trask and you know radio which finally equals to us doing a deal together"  This leads me to believe that they hadn't been able to work on a deal in the past because their specialized niche's werent involved, but now they are

On 10/30/2022 at 6:52 PM, Madding crowd said:

I love the movie but it always drove me crazy that Tess could wear Katherine’s clothes and the outfits hit at the right length when Katherine was about five inches taller and thinner.

The coat maybe - but not the suits - especially the white one she wore to the wedding which was inappropriate.  A guest should refrain from wearing white to a wedding.  Believe me - I found out the hard way back in the mid-80s!   Oh....and the six thousand dollah dress!  Too twinkly and flouncy to be in Katherine's wardrobe.  Compared to the long red dress she wore to her 'cocktail thing' and the long skirted white outfit she wore on the helicopter ride, that dress did not appear to be a style she'd wear, IMO

[greekmom]

So they are going to ruin another movie with another crappy reboot.

The well of ideas has clearly run dry in Hollywood.

[Hiyo]

I don't think a crappy reboot will hurt this movie...I mean, I still love Charade, even though The Truth About Charlie exists.

[paramitch]

I have a really deep love of this film. I grew up super-poor, deep South. So, not the New Jersey/NE version of U.S. poor, like Tess, but still -- I get it. Like, I read books, went to college, and my whole family thought I was a unicorn and so weird.

What I love about the movie is simply the sense of yearning. The movie has the best, and most beautiful overarching sense of yearning I have ever seen on film. Tess staring across the river, eyes wide, to a beautiful Manhattan, is just gorgeous and captures something so real and complex. Then I lived in NYC decades later, and I got it even more -- I lived in Queens, and I could see Manhattan, just 15 minutes away. And I loved it SO MUCH (I would still live there if I could afford it). But there are people in NYC living lives so far from normal they are on another planet. It's amazing to experience. I have never felt more like a French Revolution peasant as I did in New York.

Meanwhile, I especially love the ways director Mike Nichols teases Tess and us with ambition, possibility, desire. Sometimes NYC is right there, close and brilliant. Other times, it is far away but accessible with desire -- we swoop across the river in flight effortlessly -- Tess's desire made flight. She can soar! Other times, it is still there but still and immovable, not reachable. It's so sad. And so real. We've all wished for things out of grasp. That's what this movie does for me -- manifests Tess's desire so sharply that I wouldn't be able to rewatch if she hadn't been succeeded in her goals.

My single favorite details in the entire movie?

1. Tess goes to her first day at work for Trask wearing one of Jack's jackets (cuffs rolled up), and after he's championed her first day and given her an adorable lunchbox. Unlike Mick, Jack loves Tess's mind and knows she will succeed. I love that.
    
2. Also! If you pay attention to the end scene with the wonderful Amy Aquino, on Tess's first day in her humble entry-level position... she has lunch scheduled with Mr. Trask. Who (we know already) admires her heart and drive, and who is going to help her succeed. I just love that (also, I love Trask as a character -- he comes off like such a genuinely nice, fair guy, and is so beautifully played by Philip Bosco). 

On 8/16/2022 at 5:34 PM, raven said:

I know the movie gets criticized because of the relationship between Tess and Katharine (what boss wouldn't steal use a subordinate's good idea - also, Sigourney Weaver steals her scenes) but, as much fun as she is, it's really Cynthia I have a problem with.  She keeps pushing Tess to give Mick a chance, even though Tess caught him having sex with someone else in their bed!!  Ugh.   Admittedly, young Alec Baldwin is super hot in this movie but ugh, really, Cyn?  Tess even calls her out on it but Cyn is still "he's so saddd....I want my wedding to be perfect blah blah".

I hate the way Cyn (and everyone in their group) support Mick so fast, but I also think it's really accurate to the situation and culture. Mick isn't just cheating on Tess, he's cheating on her ambition; he's making her pick home, man, domesticity, not this stupid city ambition crap.

So the whole group (except Cyn, and also including Cyn) is sort of irritated by Tess's ambition and wants her to stop doing that weird shit. They're basic people who want her to be basic. Even Cyn just thinks her ambition is some weird phase and not who Tess really is, at heart. So I love it, even if it drives me bonkers. 

What's interesting (and I have experienced this) is that Cyn and especially Mick see Tess's ambition as toxic and bad. They just want her to get over herself, to stop dressing for traffic court, to stop being someone else, to stop dreaming. She can pretend to be Madonna alone. But she is not allowed to sing and dance anywhere else.

On 8/17/2022 at 7:29 AM, Shannon L. said:

I love this movie, too.  I pretty much agree with all of the posts so far.  I'll add that I love the moment when Jack is cleaning up and changing his shirt in his office and everyone is watching him.  The applause and his response to it told me that he was a good person to work for (and not because he changes in his office 😄 ).  He's obviously a nice person, with a good sense of humor, whom they feel comfortable with.

I also love the final scene between Tess and her new secretary.  You knew that she was going to be great boss, too.

Yes to both of these! The fun part with Jack in the office is that he does come across like such a good sport -- a good guy everyone roots for. And the final scene is just perfection to me with Tess and her new assistant.

On 8/18/2022 at 10:39 PM, Bastet said:

And then she calls Joan Cusack to say "Guess where I am" and Carly Simon's fantastic "Let the River Run" kicks in again as it had at the beginning -- terrific ending!  I'll have to take another look at everything in between one of these days.

What's bittersweet and lovely is that Tess simply making it to an entry-level professional job is the fairytale. She's not a CEO (see also the inadvertently hilarious The Secret of My Success, which holy cow, does not age well). And yet even this office to herself is a near-mythical achievement, and Cyn's reaction (especially given her being so convinced it cannot happen) is so moving to me.

On 8/24/2022 at 5:36 PM, JustHereForFood said:

This (disagree about Baldwin, bleh). And the scene when he proposed in front of his girlfriend? Ugh, I can't believe she stayed with him.

Second problem was with how nonchalant Tess was about the idea that she might have had spent the night with a total stranger after being completely out due to those drugs she took earlier. I get that it was a different time, but still, I would have expected her to be more freaked out that someone would take advantage of her like that.

It was the time.

1. Mick's Proposal etc.  I actually like the scene where Mick proposed (even if so cringeworthy!) because it all ties back to his original affiar and the culture they are in. In everyone else's eyes, Tess was reaching too far above herself, and also neglecting Mick. Mick bopping Doreen in their bed is not the end of the relationship to them -- it's just a sign that she's "reaching too high," abandoning her man, and they are "having problems." For her culture, the reaction is simply that Tess needs to stop doing so much outside, focusing on Mick, etc. It's gross but accurate.

Which is why I like the script a lot here -- Mick is an asshole, but he's not pure evil, he's just a narrow-minded guy who would never be happy with Tess because he kept thinking she would get over her ambition like phase (unlike Jack, who is charmed and dazzled by her brains).

And Doreen isn't evil either here, just a local girl with big hair who has the time for Mick and everything he stands for.

Mick and Doreen did Tess a favor. They showed her exactly why she needs to keep dreaming. So I love that in the end, they are all nice to each other, not mean.

2. The Morning After. It's purely a sign of how far we've come. Back then, the fact that Jack didn't sleep with Tess seriously -- as icky as that is -- makes him Prince Charming.

And what's interesting is -- she plays it that way and it works because it's her culture. She's kind of blown away that he didn't. Every other guy in that bar where Mick proposed to her -- INCLUDING MICK -- would have slept with a drunk/unable to consent Tess. Tess even EXPECTS this. 

So Jack not doing that isn't expected, like today. It makes him the prince of the fairy tale. I'm just glad we now live in a time where rape and consent are taken more seriously.

(I will also point out many other movies of this era where the guy DID do this and it was presented as cute or no big deal -- THE MIND REELS -- like "Switch," with Ellen Barkin, etc.)

On 8/26/2022 at 8:37 PM, starri said:

One of, if not the, most well-deserved Oscars for Original Song.

It's also one of those rare movies that, no matter how bad a day I'm having, it can always make it better.

Agreed on both! Although if you had the original soundtrack album, back in the day, which I did, there is a clear really bad moment where Carly hits an off-note, and it stays in the recording. I always wondered why it was on the album but not in the movie! (you had to be there)

On 8/29/2022 at 6:16 AM, ctlady said:

Really!  "Throw him a bone, will ya?  I want happy humans here tonight".  Wonder if Cyn would be singing the same tune if she caught Tim poppin' Doreen DiMucci in their bed.  As good of a friend she appeared to be, she was absolutely selfish and heartless here.  AND she expected Tess to allow Mick to make it up to her.  

And a lot of familiar faces - some who were unknown at the time:  Kevin Spacey, David Duchovney, Olympia Dukakis, Oliver Platt, Nora Dunn

I don't hate Cyn for trying to mediate between Mick and Tess. She's Tess's bestie but has probably known Mick since kindergarten and -- in the larger sense -- is dealing with the rest of their close-knit friends and family who already resent Tess for "stepping out" on their "family" and trying to succeed and move up the ladder.

They don't want Tess to do that. They love her but they are invested in Tess marrying Mick and popping out kids. This silly ambition stuff is just something she needs to get over. I've seen this personally but in a Southern (but exactly the same) culture.

And oh man, the cast is great. Love all the supporting cameos and minor appearances, especially Dukakis! She's so warm and wonderful: "Four Strikes, you're out." Nora Dunn is delightful but I'm so glad she got to be less cartoonish later -- she was wonderful in Last Supper and Passion Fish, for instance.

My understanding is that Spacey's appearance here was a milestone for him because someone told him, "Either fix yourself to be a leading man or resign yourself to be a bit player" -- so he minimized/removed a few moles, worked on his hairline, lost weight, etc., and went on to so much success. I'm so saddened by this moment in the film because it feels to me like -- post-revelations -- it's a glimpse of Spacey (previously one of my favorite actors of all time) showing us the predatory side he always really had (which had, IRL, been directed more at men). I'm just bummed and hate that I will probably never be able to watch American Beauty again -- it's just too close to home on this specific issue. Gah.

On 9/9/2022 at 8:36 PM, Conotocarious said:

“Now get your bony ass out of my sight!”

I may be alone but I've always hated the unnecessary body-shaming of that moment. Just tell her to get out.

On 9/12/2022 at 9:41 AM, ctlady said:

Assistant, maybe, but not solely her gender.  What I believe held Tess back was her breathless, kitten voice, the way she dressed, frizzy 80s hair and tacky jewelry.   I've been in many corporate meetings with both men and women - even in the 80s - and, other than the big shoulder pads that were the stylish rage, I've never come across anyone in an executive position who dressed like Tess - or (gasp!) Cyn. 

What's that phrase - "dress for the job you want, not the job you have".  And ditto to Katherine quoting Coco Chanel "dress shabbily they notice the dress. Dress impeccably, they notice the woman".  She was direct with Tess without being too insulting ("you look terrific, but you may want to rethink the jewelry")  She put the ball in Tess' court to decide how much she wanted to pare down

Those things did absolutely hold Tess back and I absolutely think the film showed that. She was playing to type, being what people wanted her to be, speaking like she was expected to speak.

I loved that she learned from Katharine.

On 10/6/2022 at 5:55 AM, Dr.OO7 said:

Exactly. Tess herself said it when talking with Trask at the end, that someone like her HAS to bend the rules to get her foot in the door.

One thousand percent. Nobody was gonna give her a chance without her writing her name in the sky. She's right.

On 10/26/2022 at 12:32 PM, ctlady said:

But what exactly does 'someone like her' mean?  Education?  Looks?  Upbringing? Professionalism?  

Tess definitely had the smarts, the drive and the ambition - no question.  But package that inside big hair, patterned tights, stilettos, garish makeup and clunky, noisy jewelry and chances are the former qualities will be buried under the latter external appearance.  And, like it or not, outward appearance is what's initially seen during a first impression - not business acumen, the ability to command a roomful of colleagues or even an impressive college resume.  Tess was who she was on the outside, but didn't change that to match the ultimate career path she wanted.  She obviously felt the way she spoke could hinder her being taken seriously - thus speech class.  So why did she continue with the tacky wardrobe which obviously appeared to only invite the kind of unprofessional attention she didn't want (and from a  young and unknown Kevin Spacey at the time!)

Katherine was a back-stabbing, ladder climbing shark - but her business suits, wool coat, leather gloves and quilted, chained handbag and smooth talk allowed her to disguise that.  All coming back to "dress shabbily they notice the dress....." or 'dress for the job you want, not the job you have' quotes  

Only when Tess has the opportunity to step into Katherine's world (and her wardrobe which magically fit her!) was Tess able to be taken seriously - regardless of what her educational background or socio-economic upbringing

"Someone like her?" Speaking personally from experience -- low-class. Coming from poverty. Coming from the secretarial pool.

And it's accurate. I put myself through school, late 80s, got a BS degree, and still ended up temping as a secretary, data input, and receptionist for THREE YEARS just to get any kind of chance at a regular job after that. 

Tess's hair and wardrobe are simply reminders of ways she can change and evolve. For me, they are a little cartoonish -- I do think the Tess we see in this movie would never have still been wearing that jewelry and makeup at that point in her evolution in real life -- she was too smart for that -- but the film needed us to see her learning a final lesson, so she fixes that from Katharine.

And I agree that Katharine's presentation, dress, etc., are all a master class for Tess.

My further favorite detail about Katharine and how Sigourney plays her is that she is acting every second, all the time. Watch Katharine turn away from people, or close the door, and her face always "drops" -- it's like she only knows how to be who she is/how she is, by playing a part.

There's a slightly sad aspect to Katharine in the movie that I like. It doesn't make her a good person, but it does make her complex. Even before she discovers the ruse, she likes Tess -- as long as Tess can be used, and doesn't get in her way. That's more interesting than the usual hatred/pure evil villain aspect. 

On 10/30/2022 at 3:52 PM, Madding crowd said:

I love the movie but it always drove me crazy that Tess could wear Katherine’s clothes and the outfits hit at the right length when Katherine was about five inches taller and thinner. I also never thought Tess’ idea about Trask seemed worth such a big fuss and/or required input and assistance from Jack.

I agree. My main issue when watching is that Tess is visibly curvier than Katharine, and it doesn't help that Melanie fluctuated visibly in weight during the film (she was partying so constantly that she almost got fired halfway through). I'm not body-shaming -- Melanie is gorgeous! But they are just not the same body types and for instance, when Tess holds up Katharine's party dress, I'm over here going, "There's no way she can wear that." I think it could have been slightly better handled? Who knows. 

As far as Tess's idea, it's debatable. What takes it over the top is Katharine treating it like she knows it's wrong. If she had blithely contacted Jack and thanked Tess with a lunch or a stuffed animal, there would be no movie. But the fact that Tess presents it and she visibly steals it and tries to hide doing so means that it IS theft, it is wrong, and Tess is right to try to make her own way in the aftermath.

The ending is so powerful to me, and so moving. It inspired me then, and still does.

Edited November 10, 2022 by paramitch
missing text

[voiceover]

On 10/30/2022 at 3:52 PM, Madding crowd said:

I love the movie but it always drove me crazy that Tess could wear Katherine’s clothes and the outfits hit at the right length when Katherine was about five inches taller and thinner.

Eh.  When it’s as well-done as this film is, I hand-wave it as Sisterhood of the Traveling Professional Wardrobe.