Trainwreck: Woodstock '99 - General Discussion

[Irlandesa]

Quote

Woodstock 1969 promised peace and music, but its '99 revival delivered days of rage, riots and real harm. Why did it go so horribly wrong?

[merylinkid]

Watched this last night.    The promoters are  STILL blaming "the kids."    Dudes, you confiscated all food and drink and then charged those "kids" festival prices for WATER.    You loved how great the weather was but didn't think about how hot it was on that field.    Then you didn't have enough security.   "Peace patrols" at a large event are not a good idea.   You need easily identified, TRAINED security.   Not a handful of college kids with nice t-shirts.   

The worst was the attitude towards the rapes.   "Oh it didn't affect the event ..... except for the women who were rapied."   Ummmmmmmm, yeah it did affect the event.   

At least no one DIED at Fyre Fest.   But I swear all through the first episode I expected the Billy guy (I don't care enough to go look up his name) from Fyre Fest to be involved somehow.   Who knows maybe he was there as a kid and that's where he got the idea.  

For the record, the original Woodstock actually had a lot of the same problems.   They just get glossed over for the "peace and love" narrative.   It was muddy, and dirty and too many people with not enough security or facilities.   Food adn water were scare.   The drugs leds to medical emergencies.    There were probably rapes.   So if they wanted to recreate the original Woodstock, they kinda did a good job.

But I could have gone my entire life without seeing Flea's naked ass.

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, merylinkid said:

The worst was the attitude towards the rapes.   "Oh it didn't affect the event ..... except for the women who were rapied."   Ummmmmmmm, yeah it did affect the event.   

Yes!  The whole attitude towards the sexual assaults was overly glib.  That one guy was like "in a city of 250,000 people, it's likely that 4 rapes took place."  They usually don't take place with security around.  And I'm sure there were more victims than reported since so many people were passed out. I also wasn't thrilled with the documentary choosing to show topless women in that segment.  Other times in the doc?  Sure.  But doing it during that segment seemed to unintentionally reinforce one of the interviewee's previous statements about when women were groped.  "Did men touch women?  Yes.  And that's wrong.  BUT....women took off their tops so like I'm sure most of it was an accident."  Or whatever eye roll worthy thing he claimed.

I had to laugh at the overly optimistic photographer who was trying to hand out trash bags. 

I really enjoyed this doc and its ability to build up a sense of foreboding.  To be honest, though, this is my worst nightmare even before the bad stuff started happening.

[DanaK]

4 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Yes!  The whole attitude towards the sexual assaults was overly glib.  That one guy was like "in a city of 250,000 people, it's likely that 4 rapes took place."  They usually don't take place with security around.  And I'm sure there were more victims than reported since so many people were passed out. I also wasn't thrilled with the documentary choosing to show topless women in that segment.  Other times in the doc?  Sure.  But doing it during that segment seemed to unintentionally reinforce one of the interviewee's previous statements about when women were groped.  "Did men touch women?  Yes.  And that's wrong.  BUT....women took off their tops so like I'm sure most of it was an accident."  Or whatever eye roll worthy thing he claimed.

I had to laugh at the overly optimistic photographer who was trying to hand out trash bags. 

I really enjoyed this doc and its ability to build up a sense of foreboding.  To be honest, though, this is my worst nightmare even before the bad stuff started happening.

I haven't seen this version yet, but the HBO doc series Music Box had an episode on this concert and the people in charge spouted their same glib uncaring attitude on the assaults on the women. Just made me really hate those people

[retrograde]

I thought last year's HBO documentary on the same topic was better -- I think it did a better job examining the culture and music of the times and how that played into what went down. It also felt like it gave a better sense of how widespread the rape/SA was, and bothered to mention the people who died (which seemed like a weird omission from this new one). But I still thought this series was a worth watching, and perhaps did a more comprehensive job of laying out each step in the buildup and of covering the riot itself.

I was a teen during the period and even at the time was resentful we got stuck with such douchebro music as the defining genre of the times. While of course the bands themselves weren't at all responsible for what happened at Woodstock 99, the film really reminded me how bad nu metal was. 

Edited August 5, 2022 by retrograde

[Irlandesa]

Thanks for mentioning the other documentary.  For some reason, I hadn't heard of it so I will check it out--although it might be too much to revisit that festival.  Once feels like enough.

I had no idea people died.  That does seem like an amazing thing to leave out.

[Welshman in Ca]

10 hours ago, retrograde said:

I thought last year's HBO documentary on the same topic was better -- I think it did a better job examining the culture and music of the times and how that played into what went down. It also felt like it gave a better sense of how widespread the rape/SA was, and bothered to mention the people who died (which seemed like a weird omission from this new one). But I still thought this series was a worth watching, and perhaps did a more comprehensive job of laying out each step in the buildup and of covering the riot itself.

I was a teen during the period and even at the time was resentful we got stuck with such douchebro music as the defining genre of the times. While of course the bands themselves weren't at all responsible for what happened at Woodstock 99, the film really reminded me how bad nu metal was. 

Do you happen to remember what it was called ? Thanks

[Birnam Wood]

They gave the angry, drunk teenagers fire. FIRE.

I was 23, and yes, this was an excellent reminder of how much I hated most of that music. Except perhaps Sheryl Crow. (Jewel seemed like a "one of these things is not like the other" inclusion).

[Irlandesa]

51 minutes ago, Welshman in Ca said:

Do you happen to remember what it was called ? Thanks

I looked it up.  It was part of a documentary series called Music Box.

[Anela]

I don’t even remember this.  I do remember listening to the one from 1994, on the radio, when I was a teenager.  

[libgirl2]

12 hours ago, retrograde said:

I thought last year's HBO documentary on the same topic was better -- I think it did a better job examining the culture and music of the times and how that played into what went down. It also felt like it gave a better sense of how widespread the rape/SA was, and bothered to mention the people who died (which seemed like a weird omission from this new one). But I still thought this series was a worth watching, and perhaps did a more comprehensive job of laying out each step in the buildup and of covering the riot itself.

I was a teen during the period and even at the time was resentful we got stuck with such douchebro music as the defining genre of the times. While of course the bands themselves weren't at all responsible for what happened at Woodstock 99, the film really reminded me how bad nu metal was. 

We started watching this last night my husband feels the same way about nu metal that you do. I never got into it and was more into alternative. 

Watching this, there was no way I would be caught at something like this! We just had Lallapalooza out here and it has always been handled so much better. My husband went to it years ago and said it was well controlled. 

Edited August 5, 2022 by libgirl2

[Bastet]

17 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I had no idea people died.  That does seem like an amazing thing to leave out.

Three people died, but two of those deaths really didn't have anything to do with conditions at the event -- a woman got hit by a car as she was leaving, and a middle-aged man with a pre-existing heart condition had a heart attack.  I understand why those weren't mentioned.

But the third resulted in a lawsuit against the promoters that to this day has not been resolved -- a young man collapsed from heatstroke and later died of the resulting hyperthermia.  His mom sued, saying the heatstroke was caused by inadequate water and medical care at the festival.  It's odd not to mention that when covering the lack of access to water, the temperature on the ground, etc.

(Three people died at the original Woodstock, too -- two from overdoses and one teenager, who was sleeping on the ground, from being run over by a tractor collecting trash.  Two died at the '94 Woodstock, but not related to the festival -- one from complications of diabetes and one from a ruptured spleen.)

I haven't watched this documentary series yet, but I was working for a record label at the time and some of our acts were there, so I remember hearing a lot about it.  Total shitshow.

I gave about two minutes' thought to attending the '94 festival, before realizing I'd be utterly miserable being around that many people for that long.  I only felt more strongly about that by '99, plus I was not at all enthused about the line-up. 

[Enero]

11 hours ago, Birnam Wood said:

They gave the angry, drunk teenagers fire. FIRE.

I was 23, and yes, this was an excellent reminder of how much I hated most of that music. Except perhaps Sheryl Crow. (Jewel seemed like a "one of these things is not like the other" inclusion).

This. After all that had already happened I could not believe they handed out real candles with fire. SMH. If they wanted to do a peace and love tribute in memorandum of Columbine they should’ve done the LED sticks or lights not real fire. Even if the concert had been organized and under control it would've been a bad idea to do real candles. 

2 hours ago, Bastet said:

I gave about two minutes' thought to attending the '94 festival, before realizing I'd be utterly miserable being around that many people for that long.  I only felt more strongly about that by '99, plus I was not at all enthused about the line-up. 

11 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

We started watching this last night my husband feels the same way about nu metal that you do. I never got into it and was more into alternative. 

Watching this, there was no way I would be caught at something like this! We just had Lallapalooza out here and it has always been handled so much better. My husband went to it years ago and said it was well controlled. 

Back in the day we did Midtown Music Festival here in Atlanta. It wasn’t nearly as big as Woodstock, but it was well organized, clean and felt safe. First off they had several stages for the acts, attendees could not spend the night on site, attendees had to keep their clothes on and security was TIGHT. The worst that we encountered was a secondary high from weed. 😂 Security did not go after people smoking weed. I’m sure there were criminal incidents but nothing of the magnitude that happened here. It was good clean fun, besides all the weed being smoked. But fun none the less. 
 

On 8/4/2022 at 11:39 AM, Irlandesa said:

Yes!  The whole attitude towards the sexual assaults was overly glib.  That one guy was like "in a city of 250,000 people, it's likely that 4 rapes took place."  They usually don't take place with security around.  And I'm sure there were more victims than reported since so many people were passed out. I also wasn't thrilled with the documentary choosing to show topless women in that segment.  Other times in the doc?  Sure.  But doing it during that segment seemed to unintentionally reinforce one of the interviewee's previous statements about when women were groped.  "Did men touch women?  Yes.  And that's wrong.  BUT....women took off their tops so like I'm sure most of it was an accident."  Or whatever eye roll worthy thing he claimed.

I had to laugh at the overly optimistic photographer who was trying to hand out trash bags. 

I really enjoyed this doc and its ability to build up a sense of foreboding.  To be honest, though, this is my worst nightmare even before the bad stuff started happening.

I was horrified by how nonchalant some in the documentary  were about the sexual assaults as well as the comments about 14/15 year old girls being at the event and unfortunately being assaulted. 
 
I’m sure there were numerous sexual assaults that just weren’t reported for various reasons. In addition to the sexual assaults I was disgusted by the sex orgies, people lined up to get their turn at sexing up a stranger. I wonder how many people walked away from that event with an STI/STD and/or pregnant.

[Irlandesa]

58 minutes ago, Enero said:

I was horrified by how nonchalant some in the documentary  were about the sexual assaults as well as the comments about 14/15 year old girls being at the event and unfortunately being assaulted. 

I just watched the HBO Max documentary recommended above.  I highly recommend it to others who have watched the Netflix documentary.  Amazingly, these same guys come off even worse in that one.  Instead of subtly implying that women were partially at fault for being groped, I think one guy outright says he blames the women for their own sexual assaults because they weren't wearing clothes.

He also blames MTV for the narrative surrounding the festival.

I don't know that I'd recommend one over the other--but I actually do think it's best to watch the Netflix one first and then watch the HBO Max one.  The Netflix doc made you feel like you're there.  But the HBO Max episode of Music Box about this had a much better critical eye because so many of the interviews were with music reporters.  Dave Homes is in it!  And the super smart Moby was also interviewed.  It examined the cultural forces more and the effect of the misogyny. 

[retrograde]

13 hours ago, Birnam Wood said:

(Jewel seemed like a "one of these things is not like the other" inclusion).

Yes, although looking at the full lineup now, it was overall a little more eclectic than it seemed. For instance, between Kid Rock and Limp Bizkit was Counting Crows, Dave Matthews Band and Alanis Morissette -- it's just that all the night-time acts seem to have been pretty samey. 

[Miss Slay]

I remember MTV reporting on this back in 1999. Even then, people thought it was a $%it show and there was a lot of spin about how the mentality of the 60s was over.

It was interesting to hear the behind the scenes from MTV personalities and people who were there. I also enjoyed hearing from Korn and Bush. I would have love to heard from Fred Durst and Kid Rock. 

Overall, it was a great look at everything.

[libgirl2]

They should have just left Woodstock well enough alone. It was one and done. These attempts to revive it and act on that nostalgia factor have failed. Heck, the original one was a mess too. 

10 hours ago, Enero said:

I was horrified by how nonchalant some in the documentary  were about the sexual assaults as well as the comments about 14/15 year old girls being at the event and unfortunately being assaulted. 
 
I’m sure there were numerous sexual assaults that just weren’t reported for various reasons. In addition to the sexual assaults I was disgusted by the sex orgies, people lined up to get their turn at sexing up a stranger. I wonder how many people walked away from that event with an STI/STD and/or pregnant.

Think how many women and girls were passed out and hadn't a clue what was done to them. Just such utter chaos. 

[merylinkid]

10 hours ago, Enero said:

After all that had already happened I could not believe they handed out real candles with fire.

The one guy even got on the radio and said "What wait, the fire marshall didn't approve this."   Like guys, before you play with fire run this by the guy in charge of you know FIRE SAFETY.   

Then of course, because of the crush of the crowd, the trucks couldn't get through.   Nor did they feel safe going in.   You can't fight a fire if you are being attacked.   Just lucky when those trucks went up it wasn't worse.

[DanaK]

On 8/5/2022 at 9:26 AM, Welshman in Ca said:

Do you happen to remember what it was called ? Thanks

The HBO one, under the umbrella series title of “Music Box”, is called “Woodstock 99: Peace, Love, and Rage” and is streaming on HBO Max. Note that it’s one episode vs 3 here and the runtime is about 1hr 50min. It probably wouldn’t hurt to watch both if you have enough interest to get some different viewpoints

[ch1]

3 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

They should have just left Woodstock well enough alone. It was one and done. These attempts to revive it and act on that nostalgia factor have failed. Heck, the original one was a mess too. 

Think how many women and girls were passed out and hadn't a clue what was done to them. Just such utter chaos. 

Agree.  What makes Woodstock Woodstock was the moment in time in happened in.  That can’t be recreated.

I also agree with the second comment. How many gang rapes happened there?

And who the hell let’s their 14 year old go to a 3 day festival??  

[Bastet]

17 hours ago, Miss Slay said:

I would have love to heard from Fred Durst

He originally agreed to be interviewed, but then backed out.

[TooMuchRealityTV]

I preferred the HBO documentary to this one. I think they did a bit of a deeper dive into the cultural aspects that contributed to what ended up becoming a dangerous mess. This one didn't dig very deeply into that. It also didn't seem to acknowledge the full extent of the assaults that happened.

It's probably a minor miracle with the lack of real security, lack of access to clean water in the peak of summer, and amount of rapes and assaults that more people didn't die. Not to mention the whole candle incident/fire in the end probably could have ended even worse than it did.

[Enero]

20 hours ago, Miss Slay said:

I remember MTV reporting on this back in 1999. Even then, people thought it was a $%it show and there was a lot of spin about how the mentality of the 60s was over.

It was interesting to hear the behind the scenes from MTV personalities and people who were there. I also enjoyed hearing from Korn and Bush. I would have love to heard from Fred Durst and Kid Rock. 

Overall, it was a great look at everything.

Me too. It’s always been interesting to me to hear an artist’s thought process before performing and especially performing in that environment that was so chaotic and such a huge crowd. They really had to know how to read the audience and respond in a way that would at the very least result in a successful  performance for them. I really liked hearing from Gavin Rossdale who talked about having to go on stage after Korn brought the house down.  It was a tough act to follow, but he and the rest of the group were able to ebb that energy and refocus it on their performance. I will say Gavin was so hot when he was young. He’s not aging horribly now. But the footage of him at Woodstock was…whew. Very very good looking man. 

1 hour ago, TooMuchRealityTV said:

I preferred the HBO documentary to this one. I think they did a bit of a deeper dive into the cultural aspects that contributed to what ended up becoming a dangerous mess. This one didn't dig very deeply into that. It also didn't seem to acknowledge the full extent of the assaults that happened.

It's probably a minor miracle with the lack of real security, lack of access to clean water in the peak of summer, and amount of rapes and assaults that more people didn't die. Not to mention the whole candle incident/fire in the end probably could have ended even worse than it did.

I watched the HBO documentary today. I did think it was a little better than this one as it explored the context in which the concert happened. It really did serve the organizers right that after all the corners they cut in an effort to make a huge profit they only made $200k off the event. 
 
 

[libgirl2]

11 hours ago, Enero said:

Me too. It’s always been interesting to me to hear an artist’s thought process before performing and especially performing in that environment that was so chaotic and such a huge crowd. They really had to know how to read the audience and respond in a way that would at the very least result in a successful  performance for them. I really liked hearing from Gavin Rossdale who talked about having to go on stage after Korn brought the house down.  It was a tough act to follow, but he and the rest of the group were able to ebb that energy and refocus it on their performance. I will say Gavin was so hot when he was young. He’s not aging horribly now. But the footage of him at Woodstock was…whew. Very very good looking man. 

I watched the HBO documentary today. I did think it was a little better than this one as it explored the context in which the concert happened. It really did serve the organizers right that after all the corners they cut in an effort to make a huge profit they only made $200k off the event. 
 
 

My husband thought they made millions off of it. 

[greekmom]

So the idiots confiscated the water and food but not the drugs. A bottle of water for $4 in 99 is $29 today.There were no free food kitchens. If they allowed people to bring food and share food, it might have been better. The food vendors should have been there as backup.
They had it in an open area that is covered in concrete with no coverage for sun.
They were concerned with making money. Instead of the attendees. And treating the acts like royalty with freebies, promos, etc.
They shouldn't have sold tickets or allowed ppl under 21 in the show (without adult supervision -sorry).
They should have had Korn calm the audience.
Being naked is not an invitation for trouble. If that's the case, nudist colonies should be running rapid of trouble.  Those women were were assaulted and raped should have sued. 
The kids were not really at fault. It was the organizers. I wonder how Lollapalooza and Cochella are able to produce safe shows over the years but people like this crash.
Corporation at its best. Nothing to do with love, peace and harmony.  I hope any profit these idiots made was lost in the end.
 

Edited August 7, 2022 by greekmom

[Irlandesa]

On 8/6/2022 at 8:54 PM, Enero said:

It’s always been interesting to me to hear an artist’s thought process before performing and especially performing in that environment that was so chaotic and such a huge crowd.

Yeah. I thought it was really interesting that so many acts were planning to stick around but basically told their people they were out of there after their performances.

[MaggieG]

I was not ready for that full junk shot of Flea 😨

On 8/6/2022 at 11:41 AM, ch1 said:

Agree.  What makes Woodstock Woodstock was the moment in time in happened in.  That can’t be recreated.

I also agree with the second comment. How many gang rapes happened there?

And who the hell let’s their 14 year old go to a 3 day festival??  

This was the girl they interviewed, right? She mentioned she was 14. I was honestly surprised she lasted all 3 days and somehow was coherent enough to be interviewed.

20 hours ago, greekmom said:

So the idiots confiscated the water and food but not the drugs. A bottle of water for $4 in 99 is $29 today.There were no free food kitchens. If they allowed people to bring food and share food, it might have been better. The food vendors should have been there as backup.
They had it in an open area that is covered in concrete with no coverage for sun.
 

This. At least let everyone bring in their own water and food. And I can't believe they didn't have tents or coverings of any kind and people had to resort to hiding under those containers to escape the heat.

[greekmom]

On 8/5/2022 at 10:29 PM, Enero said:

This. After all that had already happened I could not believe they handed out real candles with fire. SMH. If they wanted to do a peace and love tribute in memorandum of Columbine they should’ve done the LED sticks or lights not real fire. Even if the concert had been organized and under control it would've been a bad idea to do real candles. 

I was horrified by how nonchalant some in the documentary  were about the sexual assaults as well as the comments about 14/15 year old girls being at the event and unfortunately being assaulted. 

The candles were absolutely freaking stupid. I would love to know what repercussions the organizers got from the city, from attendees, etc after the fact for all the destruction the property, cleanup it had to go through and the fact that facilities were not provided.

I was horrified as well how the one guy described in the rave hanger of people just up against the wall with others in a line up to f**k them or the groups of people that were in corners. How did he know if participants were in agreement or not?

If the venue was a must have, they should have moved it to late September or early Oct when it would have been cooler weather wise. 

But i agree with the poster above. Woodstock 69 was organic music festival. They shouldn't have even tried to recreate it.

[TattleTeeny]

23 hours ago, greekmom said:

So the idiots confiscated the water and food but not the drugs. A bottle of water for $4 in 99 is $29 today.There were no free food kitchens. If they allowed people to bring food and share food, it might have been better. The food vendors should have been there as backup.
They had it in an open area that is covered in concrete with no coverage for sun.
They were concerned with making money. Instead of the attendees. And treating the acts like royalty with freebies, promos, etc.
They shouldn't have sold tickets or allowed ppl under 21 in the show (without adult supervision -sorry).
They should have had Korn calm the audience.
Being naked is not an invitation for trouble. If that's the case, nudist colonies should be running rapid of trouble.  Those women were were assaulted and raped should have sued. 
The kids were not really at fault. It was the organizers. I wonder how Lollapalooza and Cochella are able to produce safe shows over the years but people like this crash.
Corporation at its best. Nothing to do with love, peace and harmony.  I hope any profit these idiots made was lost in the end.
 

They should have -- at the very least! -- sold refillable water containers (either at the venue, or even with the ticket) and had free water filling stations. Even if they did that at some outrageously exorbitant price (haha, "if"!), it would have prevented so many problems!

I've loved Korn since the early '90s -- they were not "douche bro" fare then! I have always found it weird that the douch bros not only don't mock them, but actually like them.

Edited August 8, 2022 by TattleTeeny

[dabbrusc]

I agree that this was a well done doc series, I appreciate them bringing in Gavin Rossdale's perspective about how he saw how amped up the crowd was after Korn and they tailored their set list knowing they had to bring the energy back down.

The HBO one did a better job of going into the organizational and planning failures from the jump that caused the issues, as well as going deeper into the assaults and health issues of people there and the festival did very little to stop them. But it was a bit dismissive about the Nu Metal genre as a whole. 

Quote

The kids were not really at fault. It was the organizers. I wonder how Lollapalooza and Cochella are able to produce safe shows over the years but people like this crash.

The HBO doc specifically calls out how Coachella learned from all of the mistakes that Woodstock made when planning their event.

Edited August 8, 2022 by dabbrusc

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

They should have -- at the very least! -- sold refillable water containers (either at the venue, or even with the ticket) and had free water filling stations.

They did, but there were too few of them (like everything else), and then some quit working and some got destroyed.  By the end, they had that nasty contaminated water to contend with as well.

I think the woman who was there when she was 14 distilled it nicely when she said the weekend came down to a complete lack of respect - the promoters didn't respect the attendees, the attendees didn't respect the venue, and the men didn't respect the women.

It was so infuriatingly predictable to hear women reflect on how sad it was they'd been conditioned to accept casual harassment as just how things were back then, and then the men who were in charge of this whole thing still, all this time later, go so far as to blame women for their own assaults.  We got oh yeah, if there were rapes in the mosh pit, that would be terrible, but I can't imagine that happening (um, it did, including gang rapes), the rapes were happening in tents and we can't do anything about that (bullshit on both points), and if women crowd surf naked/topless, they just get accidentally touched (no, women know the difference, and clearly explained there was deliberate assault in addition to incidental hand placement).  Men are walking around with their dicks out, but somehow a woman's breasts being exposed mean her body is there for the taking.

Edited August 8, 2022 by Bastet

[greekmom]

3 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

They should have -- at the very least! -- sold refillable water containers (either at the venue, or even with the ticket) and had free water filling stations. Even if they did that at some outrageously exorbitant price (haha, "if"!), it would have prevented so many problems!

I've loved Korn since the early '90s -- they were not "douche bro" fare then! I have always found it weird that the douch bros not only don't mock them, but actually like them.

They had water but it was so full of bacteria the one girl said she got trench mouth. 

[Enero]

3 hours ago, Bastet said:

It was so infuriatingly predictable to hear women reflect on how sad it was they'd been conditioned to accept casual harassment as just how things were back then, and then the men who were in charge of this whole thing still, all this time later, go so far as to blame women for their own assaults.  We got oh yeah, if there were rapes in the mosh pit, that would be terrible, but I can't imagine that happening (um, it did, including gang rapes), the rapes were happening in tents and we can't do anything about that (bullshit on both points), and if women crowd surf naked/topless, they just get accidentally touched (no, women know the difference, and clearly explained there was deliberate assault in addition to incidental hand placement).  Men are walking around with their dicks out, but somehow a woman's breasts being exposed mean her body is there for the taking.

In the HBO documentary, there was footage of Dexter Holland from the group Offspring calling out those men who were groping the women who were crowd surfing. Moreover he told the ladies to turn the tables on the men. Two wrongs certainly don’t make a right but I appreciated the fact that he at least did called them out, for all the good it did. 
 

7 hours ago, greekmom said:

But i agree with the poster above. Woodstock 69 was organic music festival. They shouldn't have even tried to recreate it.

Basically they just created a concert and stuck the name Woodstock on it without making it relevant to 1999. For the promoters it was about making money and being able to say they successfully did another Woodstock. The attendees couldn’t have cared less about the original Woodstock and had no idea what it was about and even who performed there. Though many were at the 99 event for the music, I think just as many were there simply to party. I do wonder why more people didn’t leave early once they saw the event had turned to sh*t by Saturday. The HBO documentary addressed this, but I missed what was said as just as they started to talk about the why I had to step out of the room for a moment. 

After the sh*t show that was the 99’ event,  it’s unbelievable that the same promoters were planning a 50th anniversary Woodstock in 2019, but thankfully the plans fell apart. 

[greekmom]

One thing I do not understand. 

They were on an airbase. If it was an airbase, it would have facilities such as barracks and latrines.

Why were those not utilized?

Also, the airbase (not mentioned in the documentary) had areas of concern for environmental factors. Why would they allow a concert to take place?

[MicheleinPhilly]

11 hours ago, greekmom said:

One thing I do not understand. 

They were on an airbase. If it was an airbase, it would have facilities such as barracks and latrines.

Why were those not utilized?

Also, the airbase (not mentioned in the documentary) had areas of concern for environmental factors. Why would they allow a concert to take place?

I haven't watched this yet, but in the summer of '99 I was working for the company that was originally contracted to provide concessions for this event. I had signed up (being the dumb, 21-year old I was) and they had told us that WE were going to stay in the barracks. I don't remember exactly why or when we learned that we wouldn't be staffing the festival but every time I see footage of it, I thank my lucky stars. 

[dabbrusc]

One thing this doc didn't bring up was they implied Limp Bizkit was the last act of the day, which wasn't the case. They were followed by Rage Against the Machine and Metallica. This is touched on very lightly in the series by in addition to all of the infrastructure failures they promoters didn't know the music acts they booked, so there was no "come down" time to let the air out of the balloon (so to speak). Musically they kept bringing the crowd up and up and angrier and angrier without a release.

[ch1]

14 hours ago, Enero said:

Basically they just created a concert and stuck the name Woodstock on it without making it relevant to 1999. For the promoters it was about making money and being able to say they successfully did another Woodstock. The attendees couldn’t have cared less about the original Woodstock and had no idea what it was about and even who performed there. Though many were at the 99 event for the music, I think just as many were there simply to party. I do wonder why more people didn’t leave early once they saw the event had turned to sh*t by Saturday. The HBO documentary addressed this, but I missed what was said as just as they started to talk about the why I had to step out of the room for a moment. 

I think some were trying to make it relevant to gun violence (because of Columbine) (which is also why they foolishly had candles) but it was half assed.  No one involved - organizers or attendants - gave a shit about that.

[sadie]

Here’s what I never understand about concerts like this. Why oversell tickets to where you know it’s going to be unmanageable. I know I know, money, but the one guy said there were 250,000 people there, so 100,000 tickets wouldn’t make money? There aren’t enough support services in the world to control that many people at one time. And then to not have the fore thought to set up large tents for shade, ensure vendors aren’t price gaulging, if you think you need 1,000 port a potties, dial it up to 2,000. I’m no promoter but this seems just like prudent planning. I know I know, MONEY!

The promoters interviewed just infuriated me that all these years later are still sugar coating and lying about how “successful” this was. I assume it’s to keep lawsuits at bay, but c’mon dudes, anyone with eyes knew this went wrong on DAY 1, not just a handful of bad apples at the end. 

the good news is I never have to worry about getting caught up in something like this because the idea of even going to a well controlled event with hundreds of thousands of people is my worst nightmare, illl listen to some Sheryl Crow from my nice cozy couch with my functional bathroom and my nice clean kitchen. 

[Racj82]

Even if it was hyped up for drama that image of the bacteria growing in the water people drank and bathed in is the stuff of nightmares.

[Kel Varnsen]

I watched the first episode this evening, I don't remember much about Woodstock 99 other than it ended up as a huge shitshow. I had a work friend a few years ago who at one time lived in the area and told me how her and her partner at the time were able to check out a bit of it, after the fences came down but I don't remember much about what she told me.

As for the doc itself, I can't believe how much of a dumbass the guy who founded the original Woodstock sounds like. I assume that is his house that they were filming him in, so it is amazing how rich you can get just from being lucky.

Also it has probably been years since I listened to any Bush song (although I did own their first album) but I can't believe I never noticed how much they were trying to sound like Nirvana.

[TattleTeeny]

On 8/8/2022 at 5:56 PM, greekmom said:

They had water but it was so full of bacteria the one girl said she got trench mouth. 

I get that; just commenting on what they could have done (from a money-making standpoint, if not an ethical one). My (poorly made) point is that they still could have been greedy without being as disgusting as they were. 

Edited August 10, 2022 by TattleTeeny

[vibeology]

20 hours ago, sadie said:

Here’s what I never understand about concerts like this. Why oversell tickets to where you know it’s going to be unmanageable. I know I know, money, but the one guy said there were 250,000 people there, so 100,000 tickets wouldn’t make money? There aren’t enough support services in the world to control that many people at one time. And then to not have the fore thought to set up large tents for shade, ensure vendors aren’t price gaulging, if you think you need 1,000 port a potties, dial it up to 2,000. I’m no promoter but this seems just like prudent planning. I know I know, MONEY!

The thing is there are ways to run very large events safely. There have been free concerts with over a million people that didn't end up with fires, riots and multiple sexual assaults.  There have been big rock festivals with hyped up crowds that didn't end in tragedy.

The problem here is the planners didn't plan for anything. There's a science to crowd dynamics and it didn't seem like a single person planning this event had any experience in it. The way the site is laid out, where there are and aren't barriers, the timing of the acts on stage, having trained crowd managers on hand rather than 19 year olds looking to make $500.00 for a weekend (where was all the training if it was just a weekend gig?) and controlling what drugs and alcohol are available are all so important. Also, fire. Don't give an already wild crowd fire. That isn't something you should need a PhD to know.

Everyone thinks they're an event planner because they put together a surprise party or a wedding. And yes, the one guy did help launch the original Woodstock but it was a fucking messy event. Large scale event planning is fucking hard. It takes really great people who have expertise to run this type of concert. It can be done and done well. Just not with these jackasses at the helm focused on cutting costs, increasing profit and having no understanding of the level of risk involved in what they're doing. Every single element of the event is a risk. The weather, the venue, the food, the water, the alcohol, the performances, the attendees, the washrooms, the camp area, the garbage, the medical tents, the entry points etc. all pose different levels of risk and have to be carefully considered and managed. They just contracted out so much of it to the cheapest option without any care for how that would impact the overall event experience for attendees and artists. It's truly shameful. 

[supposebly]

I was there and I had quite a good time. We left very early morning shortly after/during the Red Hot Chili Peppers concert when the fires started. 

The water situation was atrocious and it was so very hot. I couldn't believe how much they were charging. Never even mind the lineups at the stands. I saw a LOT of people passing out from the heat.

We used the free water earlyto fill up the bottles we brought and later, we used it to soak our towels. So, we were walking around wrapped in wet towels most of the time, so we were fine. But I was a bit older (30) and better prepared for this than a lot of people, I think. We had already smuggled in some water and food. I knew stuff is always overprized at these things and I wasn't going to spend my money for much more than the tickets if I could help it. I've been to large festivals in Europe, so I knew what to expect. It was still worse than other festivals that I've been to but overall, I had a fabulous time until the fires started.

I don't remember seeing any buildings, I think we were very far from the actual barracks. No shade anywhere and the heat was quite something.

There were these fenced-in "beer gardens" that you had to show ID for, to drink some overpriced cheap ass beer. We went there but I think those fences came down soon after. 

I'm happy to say I wasn't raped and I didn't see anything but reading about it all in the aftermath, I was devastated.

I'm not sure I actually WANT to see this documentary. 

If anyone thinks that there were no rapes in the original Woodstock, they are deluding themselves. This just wasn't something that was talked about and later the narrative devolved to this nostalgic lovefest. From all I read, it was a quite disorganized shitshow too.

I was born in 1969, so I thought it would be a nice thing to celebrate. My first year after moving to Canada, 30 years of life, and 30 years after Woodstock, I lived in Ottawa, so it wasn't too far to drive. Reality, however, is always less simple.

Edited August 10, 2022 by supposebly

[Kel Varnsen]

1 hour ago, supposebly said:

anyone thinks that there were no rapes in the original Woodstock, they are deluding themselves. This just wasn't something that was talked about and later the narrative devolved to this nostalgic lovefest. From all I read, it was a quite disorganized shitshow too.

I am only one episode in, but all the talk about 1969 Woodstock and from its founder reminds me a lot of the documentary about Tower Records called All Things Must Pass. In both cases they were things founded in the 60's that had a lot of problems with how they were run (in Tower's case it was ignoring advice from your financial people and a lot of inappropriate behavior) and were only really successful at the time because of the great music at the time proping them up, and the ability of the people running things to make money off that. And both are only really remembered fondly because of nostalgia. 

[libgirl2]

7 hours ago, supposebly said:

I was there and I had quite a good time. We left very early morning shortly after/during the Red Hot Chili Peppers concert when the fires started. 

The water situation was atrocious and it was so very hot. I couldn't believe how much they were charging. Never even mind the lineups at the stands. I saw a LOT of people passing out from the heat.

We used the free water earlyto fill up the bottles we brought and later, we used it to soak our towels. So, we were walking around wrapped in wet towels most of the time, so we were fine. But I was a bit older (30) and better prepared for this than a lot of people, I think. We had already smuggled in some water and food. I knew stuff is always overprized at these things and I wasn't going to spend my money for much more than the tickets if I could help it. I've been to large festivals in Europe, so I knew what to expect. It was still worse than other festivals that I've been to but overall, I had a fabulous time until the fires started.

I don't remember seeing any buildings, I think we were very far from the actual barracks. No shade anywhere and the heat was quite something.

There were these fenced-in "beer gardens" that you had to show ID for, to drink some overpriced cheap ass beer. We went there but I think those fences came down soon after. 

I'm happy to say I wasn't raped and I didn't see anything but reading about it all in the aftermath, I was devastated.

I'm not sure I actually WANT to see this documentary. 

If anyone thinks that there were no rapes in the original Woodstock, they are deluding themselves. This just wasn't something that was talked about and later the narrative devolved to this nostalgic lovefest. From all I read, it was a quite disorganized shitshow too.

I was born in 1969, so I thought it would be a nice thing to celebrate. My first year after moving to Canada, 30 years of life, and 30 years after Woodstock, I lived in Ottawa, so it wasn't too far to drive. Reality, however, is always less simple.

Interesting perspective. 

And I agree, the original has suffered from extreme nostalgia. I remember seeing Pete Townshend being asked about it and he hated it.  

[Kel Varnsen]

Justice watched episode 2. I am not sure there is anyone more annoying than that promoter guy. Mostly because I am not sure how much is that he is oblivious/stupid and how much is that there is a lawyer off screen telling him not to take responsibility for anything. Because he makes it sound like everything would have been great had it not been for Fred Durst or some bad sub-contactors or the women who chose to go topless. He didn't do anything and everything was their fault.

Almost as bad was the lady who went around with garbage bags trying to get people to clean up an insane amount of trash. And they were damn right, if you pay $150 you expect that trash will be taken care of. Not to mention even if they did put it in bags there was no where for it to go. 

The only people who seemed to be trying to do their jobs to the best of their ability were the paramedic and the actual real security guy who was working in front of their stage. Everyone else was half-assing it at best.

And the Peace Patrol totally seemed like a dumbass idea where if we find a bunch of people and offer them $500 and admissions to the festival, even if half of them fuck off as long as the other half try to do their jobs (and everything else goes smoothly) we can save a ton of money on security. 

Also the stories of women being assaulted while crowd surfing totally reminded me of the Hole song Asking For it which was inspired by something similar that happened to Courtney Love in 1991.

Edited August 11, 2022 by Kel Varnsen

[Kel Varnsen]

On 8/4/2022 at 11:39 AM, Irlandesa said:

Yes!  The whole attitude towards the sexual assaults was overly glib.  That one guy was like "in a city of 250,000 people, it's likely that 4 rapes took place."  They usually don't take place with security around

I watched episode three tonight too and that part was brutal and I really hate that guy (and I don't generally hate many people). I am kind of disappointed that that guy hasn't been hit with so many lawsuits that he is homeless. Because yes in a city of 250,000 you are going to have rapes. But for the most part in those cities they are going to at least try to prevent them by having cops and other emergency services. And they are going to at least make an effort to provide people with clean drinking water, and garbage collection services. And they are going to hopefully have decent fire services and health care facilities. 

Of course if a city of 250,000 people suddenly has 100,000 of them move out, like what they said happened on Sunday morning, they might realize that is an issue.

[vibeology]

On 8/4/2022 at 11:39 AM, Irlandesa said:

Yes!  The whole attitude towards the sexual assaults was overly glib.  That one guy was like "in a city of 250,000 people, it's likely that 4 rapes took place."  They usually don't take place with security around.

And they don't usually take place in a three day window. If a city that size kept up with that rate of assault it would be nearly 500 reported rapes a year. No one would be okay with that. 

[Kel Varnsen]

One thing that surprised me was the local health inspector talking about the tests he did on water quality on I think the Saturday. He said they knew by the next morning that the water was severely contaminated. So I was surprised that the public health department wasn't able to order the organizers to fix the water issue immediately or shut the concert down. Like what is the point of doing the test if you don't do anything with the results. Especially with what we have seen over the past two and a half years about how much power public health people have when people's safety is at risk. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Kel Varnsen

[Rickster]

On 8/7/2022 at 2:59 PM, greekmom said:

So the idiots confiscated the water and food but not the drugs. A bottle of water for $4 in 99 is $29 today.There were no free food kitchens. If they allowed people to bring food and share food, it might have been better. The food vendors should have been there as backup.
 

I’m in the middle of the first episode, where they’re talking about prices. I just have to say, a $4 bottle of water in 1999 would be a bit over $7 today. Not that outrageous.