Dark Winds - General Discussion

[Daff]

On 8/6/2023 at 11:29 PM, Raja said:

Maybe because this is all happening at the time that I was becoming aware of the world beyond my family and the house on 5th Avenue that I had the opposite reaction to the series.

 

On 8/7/2023 at 2:38 PM, Hedgehog2022 said:

Love that they played David Crosby's soaring masterpiece song  "Laughing" during the moon landing scene. So many little tidbits like this that are inserted into this show that bring me back in time to 1969-1974.

Like what Taylor Sheridan did in Yellowstone with the "Beth" character? 

His voice over the radio waves alone clued me in to the time period.

[possibilities]

On TV, I can't always tell if music is supposed to be happening in the show's universe, or if they're just playing it for ambiance directed at the audience.

[AnimeMania]

S02.E03: Antigonish

After facing off with a dangerous man, Chee strikes out on his own; Leaphorn and Manuelito partner with the sheriff's department, leading Leaphorn to identify a vital clue.
Premiere Date: Thursday, August 10, 2023   AMC/AMC+      OnDemand/Streaming 
Premiere Date: Sunday, August 13, 2023   AMC    9pm  

[proserpina65]

On 7/31/2023 at 1:51 PM, Jodithgrace said:

I really have to divorce this series from the books. This is not my Jim Chee, the earnest  and quite religious young cop. Who is this swinger in the polyester suit? Ugh! 
That said, the show is entertaining enough, and there aren’t that many shows out there worth watching. I just have to forget that I have read every book Tony and Anne Hillerman have written.  

Yeah, I'm struggling a bit with that, but I just pretend he isn't Jim Chee at all.  I also find myself trying to remember which book is the source of some of the plot (the truck bombing at the hospital).  Pretty sure that wasn't in People of Darkness but one of the later books after 

Spoiler

Emma Leaphorn gets sick.

But I've deliberately not re-read any of the novels, so I could be wrong about that.

Edited August 11, 2023 by proserpina65

[nachomama]

They keep drinking rc cola. I’ve never known rc to be the go-to soda (they say pop) on the reservation. Should be Shasta and they should be shopping at bashas

[possibilities]

All those flashing lights and the metronome made me so sick. Did they want to induce seizures and barfing? Migraines? Maybe figure out some other way to create the storyline effects, unless you're trying to kill the viewership. That crap is a cliche, but it's also a hazard.

[cardigirl]

I thought the hospital fight scene was effective, but it was a bit of a cliché to have the young security guard die saving Jim Chee. And then Chee shows up at the station the next day? Isn't he recovering still from a gunshot wound or two? Timeline made no sense.

Also, that blond bad guy is seriously scary.  

I like the atmosphere of the series, I have not read the books, so my expectations are not affected by knowledge of the novels. 

 

 

[meep.meep]

On 8/11/2023 at 8:39 AM, proserpina65 said:

Yeah, I'm struggling a bit with that, but I just pretend he isn't Jim Chee at all.  I also find myself trying to remember which book is the source of some of the plot (the truck bombing at the hospital).  Pretty sure that wasn't in People of Darkness but one of the later books after 

I paid attention to the starting credits for this episode, and it definitely said this season is based on People of Darkness.  I've never read any of the books so don't know how far the show deviates from this book.

How did Chee not get all shot up?  You can't exactly scamper about when you're hiding in that kind of a ceiling.

[NeenerNeener]

I'm assuming the blond guy killed the older lady before he took her horse and rode off. Although it's less sad to think he stole it while she was in the loo, but he doesn't leave witnesses, so probably not.

[abbyzenn]

My first thought when the killer came out with the saddle was that he killed that nice old woman but I hope I'm wrong.  Not sure if we'll ever find out though.

Was the PI the killer met in the restaurant the one he killed in the bathroom in the first episode?  I could have sworn the one he killed in the bathroom stall was an old heavy white man.

I thought Chee was rather stupid to leave the hall phone dangling.  Plus why didn't he go out of the hospital with a group of nurses/doc or after the killer went to go in the room where he was hiding behind the cart and the two nurses came in and the killer moved why didn't he stay in that room?

The killer is really scary.  And of super human strength -  crashes thru an upper window, lands sprawled on a car, able to get up,  shoot a cop before leaving in a stolen car, but is still able to walk miles and miles thru the cold desert,   I like this show but this is a bit much.

I don't usually notice errors but when the boy's mother showed up he didn't get his suitcase from Chee's car.

 

 

[Jodithgrace]

I liked the detail of the kid turning his collar up like Chee’s. 
It would have taken one second for Chee to have hung up that phone instead of letting it dangle for the killer to find. 
Scary killer’s cheek scar kept coming and going. I think he covered it with makeup when he put on the brown wig. But I think he’s going to need more than a little pancake to cover the mess he’s got going on now. 
Being a gourmet chef and all, I couldn’t tell if he really did like the eyeball stew or if he was just BSing the old woman to keep her calm. I assume he killed her before taking her horse. 

[Zaffy]

Is our omnipotent killer from the books?
Did he came from the future? Is he a terminator? I honestly expecting him cut off his hand to fix the metallic components inside..

On a serious note (lol), I just do not like the psycho villain that can do everything right in every occasion and can escape a bazillion of times until our good guy finally catches him/her. 
This dude almost ruins the season for me. I prefer the mystery about the mines, the rich weirdo  and the police work around all this, than trying to catch poor man's Hannibal Lecter (ok he is not eating people, yet.. but I dunno... if we see him buying fava from a store... or Chianti...).

Edited August 16, 2023 by Zaffy

[sugarbaker design]

I'm a big fan of the books, fortunately for this show I read the novels as they were published, so it's been a while.  The one glaring difference is the character of Jim Chee who is nothing like his literary counterpart.  I just tell myself that this Chee is a Mirror Universe version.

The killer is reminding me so much of Crispin Glover, he looks and acts like him

What was the egg dish the psycho was making and eating in the first scene?

I'm betting the old Navaho lady is alive.

[bilgistic]

16 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

The killer is reminding me so much of Crispin Glover, he looks and acts like him.

I've been calling him George McFly.

[Dowel Jones]

On 8/13/2023 at 7:11 PM, possibilities said:

All those flashing lights and the metronome made me so sick.

I think they used the flashing lights as a means of disguising the killer while he was in the hospital.  Although I'll give them credit for having him make up a fake name tag, as opposed to just putting on a white lab coat just like any other show, it still would be unlikely that he could walk through a small hospital and not be recognized as an outsider, even with the tag.  Plus, the gun.  But the lights and noise effectively masked his presence.

Out of all the clothes that Jim Chee finds after his hospital stay, he picks up another leisure suit.

[Raja]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:09 AM, abbyzenn said:

Plus why didn't he go out of the hospital with a group of nurses/doc

On the one specific point the hero doesn't put others into danger during his fight or flight in this case. I remember the grief given to Superman for not taking a fight outside of the city.

The police tactics, you suspect this is a guy wo already sniped at you with a rifle and you're out in the desert with flashlights , it is a wonder any survived the terminator

19 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Out of all the clothes that Jim Chee finds after his hospital stay, he picks up another leisure suit.

He's on the cutting edge of fashion.

Edited August 16, 2023 by Raja

[tennisgurl]

I'm almost caught up with this season. I like it so far, not as much as last season but its still good, probably helped by my never having read the books so I have nothing to compare it to. I have to say though, I'm not sure what scarier, this supernaturally strong immortal killer, or Jim's leisure suites.  

[Gobi]

22 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I've been calling him George McFly.

I thought he was Crispin Glover at first.

[proserpina65]

On 8/14/2023 at 10:44 AM, meep.meep said:

I paid attention to the starting credits for this episode, and it definitely said this season is based on People of Darkness.  I've never read any of the books so don't know how far the show deviates from this book.

Well, the show deviated quite a lot in the first season and with certain elements in this season as well.  Joe Leaphorn isn't even in the book; it's a Jim Chee only story.  (The first 6 books in the series only feature one or the other, not both.)  A quick skim of the plot summary of People of Darkness on Wikipedia tells me the truck explosion is in the book although it happens somewhat differently, so I was misremembering that.  Like I said, I haven't re-read the book in a long time.

I am enjoying the series.  That blond-haired guy is seriously scary.  And Zahn McClarnon is such a compelling actor that I can't imagine anyone else in the role, even if the character he's playing isn't the book Joe Leaphorn.

 

[AnimeMania]

S02.E04: The March

Leaphorn risks his life in pursuit of a suspect; Manuelito stands up to the sheriff in a bid to rescue her boss; seeking answers on a case, Chee considers a dangerous proposition.

Premiere Date: Thursday, August 17, 2023   AMC/AMC+    OnDemand/Streaming 
Premiere Date: Sunday, August 20, 2023   AMC    9pm    

Edited August 17, 2023 by AnimeMania

[Nashville]

On 8/14/2023 at 12:09 PM, abbyzenn said:

My first thought when the killer came out with the saddle was that he killed that nice old woman but I hope I'm wrong.  Not sure if we'll ever find out though.

Same; I would love it if Auntie survived, but I doubt she did.

 

On 8/14/2023 at 12:09 PM, abbyzenn said:

Was the PI the killer met in the restaurant the one he killed in the bathroom in the first episode?  I could have sworn the one he killed in the bathroom stall was an old heavy white man.

You’re correct; he was - and the second PI refers to the first PI as a separate entity when #2 tells Sooper Dooper Serial Killer Genius Guy that #1 was shining him on by identifying the wrong woman (too young).

 

On 8/14/2023 at 12:09 PM, abbyzenn said:

I thought Chee was rather stupid to leave the hall phone dangling. 
 

I purely hated that plot device:

• Chee has enough energy to get out of the wheelchair and make a dash down the hall, but not enough energy to hang up the phone?
• And on the other end of the connection, Bern has to stay on the line while shouting to the other officers “GET THE SHERIFF’S MEN OVER TO THE HOSPITAL NOW!!!”
• *And* Sooper Dooper Serial Killer Genius Guy just happens to pick up the phone just in time to hear Bern, and be forewarned of the officer’s’ imminent arrival?

Give me a frikkin’ break.

 

On 8/14/2023 at 12:09 PM, abbyzenn said:

The killer is really scary.  And of super human strength -  crashes thru an upper window, lands sprawled on a car, able to get up,  shoot a cop before leaving in a stolen car, but is still able to walk miles and miles thru the cold desert,   I like this show but this is a bit much.

IMHO the Sooper Dooper Serial Killer Genius Guy trope has tended to kill every series into which it has been introduced (and yeah, Criminal Minds, I’m looking at YOU).

On 7/31/2023 at 12:51 PM, Jodithgrace said:

I really have to divorce this series from the books. This is not my Jim Chee, the earnest  and quite religious young cop. Who is this swinger in the polyester suit? Ugh! 

To be fair: leisure suits didn’t get labeled “swinger” attire until Saturday Night Fever hit the screens, and its male cast adopted the polyester perils as the default for low-rent disco wear.

 

On 8/14/2023 at 6:27 PM, Zaffy said:

On a serious note (lol), I just do not like the psycho villain that can do everything right in every occasion and can escape a bazillion of times until our good guy finally catches him/her. 
This dude almost ruins the season for me.

As I said earlier - echo, echo.

[nachomama]

Am I crazy or was season one set in 1971? Because season 2 they’re watching the moon landing and while it was before my birth I know it took place in 1969 like there’s Historical records. I could be completely deranged thinking first season flashed me a 1971 sign. 
 

I do not speak Navajo but I have a smattering. Usually the bad words. When gramma lady was telling him the thin paper of the catalog was for toilet paper I caught “chaunt” which is Navajo for poop. My inner 12 year old giggled. 

[Gobi]

26 minutes ago, nachomama said:

Am I crazy or was season one set in 1971? Because season 2 they’re watching the moon landing and while it was before my birth I know it took place in 1969 like there’s Historical records. I could be completely deranged thinking first season flashed me a 1971 sign. 
 

I do not speak Navajo but I have a smattering. Usually the bad words. When gramma lady was telling him the thin paper of the catalog was for toilet paper I caught “chaunt” which is Navajo for poop. My inner 12 year old giggled. 

They were watching either the July 26, 1971 Apollo 15 landing, the first use of a Lunar Roving Vehicle or the April 16, 1972 Apollo 15 landing, or December 7, 1972 Apollo 16 landing given the snowy weather. All three used the LRV.

Edited August 18, 2023 by Gobi

[Raja]

1 hour ago, nachomama said:

Am I crazy or was season one set in 1971? Because season 2 they’re watching the moon landing and while it was before my birth I know it took place in 1969 like there’s Historical records. I could be completely deranged thinking first season flashed me a 1971 sign. 
 

I do not speak Navajo but I have a smattering. Usually the bad words. When gramma lady was telling him the thin paper of the catalog was for toilet paper I caught “chaunt” which is Navajo for poop. My inner 12 year old giggled. 

I'm pretty sure they mentioned the first lunar rover and that's on Apollo 15.

[nachomama]

Clearly I didn’t pay attention to what nasa thing was happening. I’m just stupid not crazy. Yay! 

[AnimeMania]

‘Dark Winds’ Season 2 Viewership on AMC+ Spikes 146% Over 2022 Debut (EXCLUSIVE)

According to Nielsen Live + 3 Day (only data for linear TV, AMC channel) Dark Winds Season 2 had an average of 1.3 million total viewers for the July 30 Episode 1 premiere, 1.6 million for Episode 2 on Aug. 6 and 1.8 million for Episode 3 on Aug. 13.

[Red Bridey]

Can someone smarter than me explain "Antigonish" for the title? 

[Gobi]

Antigonish is a Mi’kmaq name meaning place where branches are torn off by bears seeking beechnuts or meeting place of five forked rivers.

It is also the title of a poem by Hughes Mearns that begins:

The other day upon the stair

I met a man who wasn’t there

The poem is said to be about ghosts and dealing with one’s past.

Antigonish is also slang for a sex act that you don’t want to know about.

[Zaffy]

 I did not enjoy the episode, I mean, really I have had enough with the blond killer,  it seems like if the whole damn season is about him killing and/or being on the run. 
I do not understand why they have devoted so much time to him, he is not that interesting to have the whole damn show revolving around him in such heavy doses. 
Anyway, at least he is behind bars.. for now. Cause I have this feeling he will escape and at the end Leaphorn will finally kill him. Which I hope it happens in the next episode and we will never see or hear about him again.

As for the rest, the white reporter is equally annoying. How many times we will see her trying to persuade Emma to talk to her? The season seems to have every story dragging.

The only interesting part of the season so far are the Vines, at least whenever the show remembers they exist.

Edited August 19, 2023 by Zaffy

[nachomama]

Jim chee is a crappy investigator. Twice. TWICE he opened the damn motel door without looking. I ain’t smart but I look through the peephole. He knows captain super villain is at hospital doesn’t use a peephole 

[NeenerNeener]

I couldn't figure out what was going on in that fight scene in the fog/dust...and my tv is calibrated so I could actually see what was going on in that episode of GoT where the Night King and the White Walkers stormed Winterfell.

 

ETA: I thought the old fart was going to strangle Jeri Ryan with that necklace. Glad to be wrong.

Edited August 21, 2023 by NeenerNeener

[Jodithgrace]

So scary white guy has now become super annoying white guy. Ugh. A whole episode of him kvetching! So aggravating! And why did Leaphorn empty his gun of all but one bullet? 
 

Chee is a total idiot, once again opening  his door without looking through the peephole. BTW, In the early books he dated Mary Landon, but here he doesn’t seem to have any connection with her at all. 
 

All I could think at the end was, Leaphorn…go to the hospital! We get it…you’re mad, but you dying of sepsis isn’t going to help anything. 

[Dowel Jones]

I can't figure out why Joe suddenly went off the rails when he finds out that Blondie killed his son.  Yes, that's serious, but Joe suddenly becomes all kinds of stupid in his obsessiveness.  Approach the trailer with just the two of them?  The guy's a crazed killer; wait for backup, no matter how long it takes.  And, by the way, Reservation Council - buy a goddam repeater system for your radios.  Then, he jumps off a cliff in the darkness because, why?  He just has to catch they guy?  Look where that got him.  (And was I wrong for looking at that puff of dust at the bottom of the canyon and thinking of Wile E. Coyote?) And I wonder how far they had tracked him on foot such that Bernadette couldn't get right back out there in daylight with the Sheriff.

That reporter was cringeworthy clueless.  "You're too young to have a baby."  "Is your husband in there?"

Where did Joe get the rope with which to tie the guy up?

[possibilities]

This is so disappointing. It's every cliche in the book. Why are they doing this? Is it cheaper to film with fewer cast members, so they just have most of the show be 2 at a time on an endless walkabout/monologue of evil/vague menace/dimness?

Where is the community? Where is the subtlety for godsake?

Blond Guy is some terminator robovillain and everybody else is sullen and kind of stupid.

 

[MrWhyt]

2 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

And why did Leaphorn empty his gun of all but one bullet? 

cause the others were just empty casings. He only had 1 live round left. 

[Zaffy]

9 hours ago, possibilities said:

This is so disappointing. It's every cliche in the book. Why are they doing this? Is it cheaper to film with fewer cast members, so they just have most of the show be 2 at a time on an endless walkabout/monologue of evil/vague menace/dimness?

Where is the community? Where is the subtlety for godsake?

Blond Guy is some terminator robovillain and everybody else is sullen and kind of stupid.

 

It is like if they wrote the season just for the Blond Terminator.  Which could have been interesting, maybe,  if the guy had any character development, but he doesn't,  we just know he probably has mommy issues.
He is like these undead killers from horror movies like Halloween..that keep coming back no matter what you throw on them.

The only, sort of, Navajo related topic they bothered with this season, is the one about white doctors sterilizing native women, but they are doing it so badly.. with this super annoying white journalist that keeps asking the same questions in the same frustrating way.

I have no clue how this story is in the book(s), but they have definitely screwed this up in the series. 

[abbyzenn]

This episode was a waste of time - did we really need 40 minutes or so of Leaphorn holding Blond Guy by a rope as they shuffled along in the desert - really it could have been and should have been reduced..  Most of it was too dark to figure out what was going on but really nothing much happened.

Why do they even have Jeri Ryan's character using oxygen?  Is there going to be some point to this?  I'm curious because I'm on oxygen 24/7 and I can't recall seeing a character on tv on oxygen in the hospital. 

 I too thought the husband was going to strangle her.

How soon will it be before Bond Guy breaks out of jail?  How many deputies will he kill in doing so?

[Nashville]

On 8/19/2023 at 1:08 PM, Gobi said:

Antigonish is a Mi’kmaq name meaning place where branches are torn off by bears seeking beechnuts or meeting place of five forked rivers.

It is also the title of a poem by Hughes Mearns that begins:

The other day upon the stair

I met a man who wasn’t there

The poem is said to be about ghosts and dealing with one’s past.

Antigonish is also slang for a sex act that you don’t want to know about.

I suspect this use of the term is in reference to the Mearns poem, with Sooper Dooper Serial Killer Genius Guy being the “man who wasn’t there”.

Speaking of which - was anybody else as disappointed as I that SSSKGG, once captured, should turn out to be such a whiny little bitch? 🙄

[Dowel Jones]

 I thought all that talk from Blondie on the trek out of the canyon was just him trying to get under Leaphorn's skin.  He was looking for an opening that he could exploit and put Leaphorn off balance so he could overpower him, which almost happened.

[Nashville]

4 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

 I thought all that talk from Blondie on the trek out of the canyon was just him trying to get under Leaphorn's skin.  He was looking for an opening that he could exploit and put Leaphorn off balance so he could overpower him, which almost happened.

Oh, it certainly was - but still….  😂😂😂

Personally, I’d have shot him just to get him to shut the fuck up.

[possibilities]

We have one mysterious whiny white woman, one mysterious whiny white guy, and the whiny white journalist who is trying to crack a local, since she can't crack nuts. The three of them are driving all the stories. That in itself is a crime.

Zane McC is doing the best he can, but this is a waste of his talents. At least we get to see him on Reservation Dogs, being happy, sensible, and effective.

Chee has become a placeholder dimwit.

Bernadette, who I have always liked, is less of a patsy than the others, but her main story is "I want to get out of here for my career and work for BORDER CONTROL (!?!?!?!?!) even though I'm super pissed off that Chee worked for the FBI. Plus, Leaphorn is like a father to her.

The Sheriff is also a dimwit.

Did the writing team get replaced?

 

[Zaffy]

1 hour ago, possibilities said:

Did the writing team get replaced?

by AI??

[Dowel Jones]

6 hours ago, Nashville said:

Personally, I’d have shot him just to get him to shut the fuck up.

But he needed the bullet to signal Bernadette and the Sheriff.  I would have walked to the top of that hill and then yanked him down that slope good and hard.

[Nashville]

23 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

That reporter was cringeworthy clueless.  "You're too young to have a baby."  "Is your husband in there?"

Welcome to the ’70s!

23 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Where did Joe get the rope with which to tie the guy up?

At the rope-gettin’ place.

Seriously, though: maybe Psycho Ken Doll had it in his bag, along with the money?

[Dowel Jones]

3 hours ago, Nashville said:

Welcome to the ’70s!

I didn't even think about that.  The show doesn't often give references to the time period.

[Rickster]

On 8/19/2023 at 2:08 PM, Gobi said:

Antigonish is a Mi’kmaq name meaning place where branches are torn off by bears seeking beechnuts or meeting place of five forked rivers.

It is also the title of a poem by Hughes Mearns that begins:

The other day upon the stair

I met a man who wasn’t there

The poem is said to be about ghosts and dealing with one’s past.

Antigonish is also slang for a sex act that you don’t want to know about.

Thanks! I only knew it as a town and county in Nova Scotia, and couldn’t figure out what connection it might have to New Mexico or the show. Must be the poem.

[mythoughtis]

On 8/14/2023 at 6:21 PM, Jodithgrace said:

I assume he killed her before taking her horse. 

I thought he waited until she was asleep to leave and take the horse.    I think he has some  twisted sense of honor and he respected the fact that she was nice to him.   
I can’t figure out who he has the PIs searching for and why.  He refused  to tell the first PI what she was to him and yet he told the second PI the woman was his mother.  Yet he’s blond and pale.  
The Vines are totally boring me.  Jeri Ryan must have laughed all the way to the bank.  Although she did the shock at hearing of Tomas’s death well.  

[AnimeMania]

S02.E05: Black Hole Sun

With his suspect in custody, Leaphorn races against the clock to get a confession while Chee goes under cover at the cult that ties their investigations together; Manuelito counsels a teenager who is nervous about the draft.

Premiere Date: Thursday, August 24, 2023   AMC/AMC+    OnDemand/Streaming 
Premiere Date: Sunday, August 27, 2023   AMC    9pm    

[pasdetrois]

On 7/31/2023 at 9:49 PM, possibilities said:

Is the implication that the sheep with the extra horn has radiation poisoning?

You may be right. However I've seen a few veterinarian shows where sheep and other horned critters had horns growing in all kinds of places. The vets saw them off and cauterize.

[Nashville]

On 7/31/2023 at 8:49 PM, possibilities said:

Is the implication that the sheep with the extra horn has radiation poisoning? 
 

Extremely doubtful - or not related to the space capsule, at least:

• I expect by now you’ve already gotten your fill of references to the Navajo-Churro species, so I’ll skip that. 😉
• The ram Bern “took into custody” was fully mature; probably around 8-10 years old, and with the horn growth to match.  Even if the horns were considered evidence of radiation exposure (and not a characteristic of the species), no way does radiation produce that degree of mutation in an extremely abbreviated time frame.

 

On 7/31/2023 at 8:49 PM, possibilities said:

Also, sheep are not typically aggressive, so... WTF?

1. Rams of any species can get aggressive if they perceive an imminent danger to their flock.
2. If you get around a ram during rutting season, rams don’t need an excuse; they’ll charge you for the hell of it.  A horny ram is a dangerous thing.*
    

* Yet another example of a sentence I never expected to be writing in this lifetime.