S06.E05: Black and Blue

[Lonesome Rhodes]

I'll never understand why Saul chose to partake in fisticuffs with H. O. Ward, who was clearly in better shape and had spent time training.  Saul is a master at wiggling out of predicaments, but inside the squared ropes there is no escape. 

A couple of small things I really loved in this ep:  Howard referring to Saul as "Jimmy McGill" in the encounter with Cliff and the telephone cord lying just.so. on Gus' desk.  Does any show offer so many touches like this which reveal and affirm the nature of characters?  With this consistency?  

Not buying Lalo being able to draw upon "resources" as he seeks out Gus.  He has GOT to be a fantasma (ghost) else all his good buddies in the industry discover he exists.  His mysterious exit from the house evoked another literally impossible basement escape by Lorne Malvo (Billy Bob Thornton) in Fargo.  With the tight parameters established (in this case a hypersensitive widow) he somehow disappears without a sound.  They should have had the pooch barking.  

What I absolutely buy is his unreal charms.  That guy last night rivaled any suave and sophisticated character ever played by Cary Grant, Rock Hudson, Errol Flynn, Paul Newman, Rudolph Valentino, or Ricardo Montalban, et al.  In his core, Lalo was a maximum predator of nature, in sheep's wardrobe.  It was thrilling to behold.

When the plastic was turning blue during the process, I got chills.  The blue gloves and the type of lighting with a blue hue was a bit anvilicious, though.

Poor Lane.  Sebastian was one thing.  Kim Wexler quite another.

I was most bothered by Cliff's dismissal in his mind of just how treacherous Jimmy was.  It is a certainty that when he learned of the Semitic scam at the country club, it would have further cemented his take on him.  That was very recent.  Sure, he would be super vigilant about substance abuse.  But, he would not be so stupid as to not hear out Howard's story.  

Is there a more portentous scene location than that balcony?  Man, if someone is on it, something horrible is about to be revealed.

[Bannon]

Another general theme of the show, I think, is people not being what they appear to the outside world. Gus, obviously, is not the pillar of the community small businessman. Mike isn't the doting grandfather who was working as a parking lot attendant. Kim is something we don't fully grasp yet.

[Ed-]

The "I fight for you" line from Kim was quite chilling.

Spoiler

Whatever happens to their relationship, Saul will use that line in his ads. Notably, in his ad "Fighting for You", about boxing. 

 

[Cinnabon]

32 minutes ago, Gobi said:

Howard wants to do things the honorable way, if possible. He offers to “settle this like men” with Jimmy. He doesn’t expect this to work, but now his conscience is clear as he goes to plan B.

 

Because real men using violence to resolve conflicts is “honorable?” Jimmy isn’t in the right, but this is also toxic behavior.

[Gobi]

37 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Because real men using violence to resolve conflicts is “honorable?” Jimmy isn’t in the right, but this is also toxic behavior.

That is how Howard would view it. He isn't planting drugs on Jimmy, or making it appear that Jimmy is hiring prostitutes, so as to destroy his reputation. And he's up front about it; he didn't jump Jimmy in an ally and pummel him. He offers to settle their grievances by a sporting competition, boxing in this instance, although it could have been handball, tennis, or golf. The likelihood is that Jimmy would have the best odds in boxing than in another sport, as he's younger than Howard and there is a referee to keep things clean (and notice that Jimmy used some dirty tricks in the fight, such as stepping on Howard's foot). 

[Cinnabon]

32 minutes ago, Gobi said:

That is how Howard would view it. He isn't planting drugs on Jimmy, or making it appear that Jimmy is hiring prostitutes, so as to destroy his reputation. And he's up front about it; he didn't jump Jimmy in an ally and pummel him. He offers to settle their grievances by a sporting competition, boxing in this instance, although it could have been handball, tennis, or golf. The likelihood is that Jimmy would have the best odds in boxing than in another sport, as he's younger than Howard and there is a referee to keep things clean (and notice that Jimmy used some dirty tricks in the fight, such as stepping on Howard's foot). 

That’s true, it’s boxing, not a bar fight.

[SunnyBeBe]

What’s the significance of the Judge Kim pointed out to Jimmy?  She got his name from her former colleague.  She grabbed a Bar bulletin and they commented on his mustache. 

[SimplexFish]

10 hours ago, Dev F said:

In the last shot, I believe we do see that it was the gun he put there.

My assumption is that he was pacing out the distances so he can cut all the lights and still find his weapon in the dark.

Wouldn't a piece of equipment like that move on a daily basis though? 

[Ellaria]

9 hours ago, Bannon said:

I'm starting to actively dislike Kim, very late in this show, like I began actively disliking Walt pretty early in BB. Her hatred of Howard seems so selfish at this point, and inviting one of her former subordinates to lunch, under false pretenses, to get more intelligence for purposes of harming Howard, is contemptible.

Sadly, I’m starting to dislike Kim as well. Her hatred of Howard still doesn’t make complete sense to me, either in its intensity or timing. I also have issues with the secrets that she is keeping from Jimmy: that Lalo is alive, that she met Mike and that Mike having them followed. Sure - it’s easy to say that she wants to keep Jimmy safe by not sharing those secrets but it’s likely more complicated and self serving than that. Sigh…

11 hours ago, Sharper2002 said: 

I have so many questions about Gus and his living arrangements now. I didn’t even realize he had the body double in last week’s episode, so I guess they cover for him at his “official” home while he’s across the street? And he still cleans the grout with a toothbrush and it’s not even his house? 🤔

I’m not particularly entertained watching Gus’ paranoia. Yes, he is afraid of Lalo. Everyone is and with good reason. Obviously, all of these moments, like scrubbing grout with a toothbrush, are leading up to something much bigger. I’m just getting impatient. 

11 hours ago, Constantinople said:

How Lalo tracked down Margarethe, I don't know. They've mentioned before there are about 3 billion Werner Zieglers in Germany.

I assume that Lalo has super powers. Once again, Tony Dalton proves that he could be utterly charming and terrifying in the span of a few minutes. While I completely forgot that Werner encountered Lalo, I understood immediately why he was maneuvering himself into a conversation with Werner’s lovely wife. At least she and her cute doggy escaped unharmed.

10 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Howard's focus on Jimmy does make me nervous because I do think the approach is probably somewhat right if it's just Jimmy.  Jimmy's motives are about on that level.  It's Kim whose animus goes deeper. I had a hard time believing Cliff was so surprised by Howard mentioning he has a Jimmy problem.  Are we supposed to believe Cliff, who perceptively knew what Jimmy was doing, is going to be so baffled by the fact that he could be behind this?

Agree. The boxing match was silly, IMO, but it certainly speaks to how Howard is approaching his “problem.” Howard doesn’t understand the level of Kim’s hatred for him. I don’t know where this going but I don’t like how it feels.

[anoninrva]

15 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

What’s the significance of the Judge Kim pointed out to Jimmy?  She got his name from her former colleague.  She grabbed a Bar bulletin and they commented on his mustache. 

I'm guessing another impersonation scheme?  That seems risky and far-fetched for a judge, though.

[peeayebee]

6 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Lalo might be capable of a lot of (bad) things, but he at least won't kill an innocent woman and her adorable dog if he doesn't have too.  Granted, I'm sure a lot of it was self-preservation/not bring any heat on him to avoid any conflict, but I'll take it!

Me too! I was so worried for both of them.

 

Quote

Gus is so unnerved right now that he is spacing out at work!  Oh, no!  Los Pos Hermanos won't be the same if their beloved manager can't get it together!  At least he's able to make sure the bathroom is "toothbrush-style" clean because I guess that helps him not go off the deep end.

I kept thinking we would see Lalo in the restaurant watching Gus, but of course that would have been stupid on Lalo's behalf. Gus's spidey sense is being warped by his paranoia, though of course the paranoia is warranted. 

 

1 hour ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

I'll never understand why Saul chose to partake in fisticuffs with H. O. Ward, who was clearly in better shape and had spent time training.  Saul is a master at wiggling out of predicaments, but inside the squared ropes there is no escape. 

I was also surprised when Jimmy stopped then got into the ring. But in hindsight, that worked into his and Kim's plan. Again, I don't understand how they could anticipate Howard would do something like this, but I suppose they knew that Howard would confront Jimmy (knowing he'd figure out Jimmy was behind the framing). I feel like they're going to use this incident against Howard, but again, I don't know how they could have planned it.

Howard has been trying to be a better person. I think he wanted to believe that this boxing challenge was an honest way to allow Jimmy to get his anger out, as a way of defusing the situation. But really, Howard just  wanted to punch Jimmy. 

 

Quote

I was most bothered by Cliff's dismissal in his mind of just how treacherous Jimmy was.  It is a certainty that when he learned of the Semitic scam at the country club, it would have further cemented his take on him.  That was very recent.  Sure, he would be super vigilant about substance abuse.  But, he would not be so stupid as to not hear out Howard's story. 

My view is that Cliff had a contentious relationship with his son over the drug abuse but then learned that he needed to be supportive, and this is affecting how he's reacting to Howard. He believes Howard is in denial. Even knowing Jimmy's history, Cliff is of the mindset that Howard has a problem, so Cliff is trying to help him, which includes not allowing him to rationalize or deflect away what he's going thru. He knows drug addicts lie, so he sees Howard as lying.

[anoninrva]

1 minute ago, Ellaria Sand said:

I assume that Lalo has super powers. Once again, Tony Dalton proves that he could be utterly charming and terrifying in the span of a few minutes. While I completely forgot that Werner encountered Lalo, I understood immediately why he was maneuvering himself into a conversation with Werner’s lovely wife. At least she and her cute doggy escaped unharmed.

 

Lalo is a psychopath and career criminal.  I don't find it hard to believe he can turn on the charm when he needs something.

[SunnyBeBe]

I guess Kim is not telling Jimmy about Mikes’s news, because she doesn’t want him to pull out of their scheme against Howard.  Kim’s unadulterated vengeance against Howard may be her downfall.  We see it with Gus and Hank. And maybe, Walt.  
 

Is it really worth Lalo’s time to bother with Kim or Jimmy?

Edited May 10, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[Dessert]

I think the thing that happened in this episode that doesn’t bode well for Howard is his decision to have the PI follow Jimmy. Mike’s men are already watching them, looking for signs of Lalo. When they see this guy, they may think he’s working for Lalo and do something to him, or even to Howard. 

[Chaos Theory]

I think the boxing match was Howard’s attempt at a alpha male way of dealing with a problem.   “Look you have an issue with me let’s punch it out and be fine with it.”   I have seen plenty of men deal with issues like this.   Once the fight is over theoretically you go have a beer with the guy and it’s done.   The problem in this case is that the person actually coming at Howard isn’t Jimmy it is Kim.

[SimplexFish]

3 hours ago, PeterPirate said:

I don't think Howard's PI is Wormald.  The guy is older and doesn't speak with Wormald's unforgettable nasal pitch.  IMDb lists a "Lennie Loftin" as a cast member but does not state who he played.  

 

Lennie Loftin does look like the PI, however his IMDb shows only one BCS episode appearance in Season 6, so not sure

[SunnyBeBe]

3 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think the boxing match was Howard’s attempt at a alpha male way of dealing with a problem.   “Look you have an issue with me let’s punch it out and be fine with it.”   I have seen plenty of men deal with issues like this.   Once the fight is over theoretically you go have a beer with the guy and it’s done.   The problem in this case is that the person actually coming at Howard isn’t Jimmy it is Kim.

So, did Howard spend a lot of time training?  When he’s informed about Jimmy, he says to his paralegal, Cancel my week…the entire week.  So, did he work out all that time or prepare something else for Jimmy?

[PeterPirate]

8 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

So, did Howard spend a lot of time training?  When he’s informed about Jimmy, he says to his paralegal, Cancel my week…the entire week.  So, did he work out all that time or prepare something else for Jimmy?

I got the impression that the entire episode--except for Lalo's part--took place on the same day.  

[Constantinople]

Quote

We're pushing to get an extra 30% on top of the penalty - Howard to the Sandpiper litigants

I don't know if Kim and Jimmy's scheme to force a quick settlement on Sandpiper will work, but they come off as bigger shit birds than before. That extra money might pay for a sizeable chunk of the attorneys fees and costs, maybe all of it.

[Penman61]

Detail watch: This episode showed that Gus's surveillance house is next door to his actual house, not across the street from it, right? Makes it much more believable; building a secret tunnel underneath a street, even a suburban neighborhood street, would be much, much harder than building one to the house on either side.

I agree Howard's "let's box it out, bro" was weird (to me), but makes sense for his character. But wouldn't a normal person--and a powerful attorney--just, you know, call the cops? The stuff Howard thinks Jimmy is doing to him are actual crimes, right? (Auto theft, stalking...impersonation?)

 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Penman61

[monakane]

Except for the stuff with Lalo, this was a meh episode.  It didn't move any of the other character's stories.  That being said, I was terrified for that woman and her dog.

[Cinnabon]

43 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I guess Kim is not telling Jimmy about Mikes’s news, because she doesn’t want him to pull out of their scheme against Howard.  Kim’s unadulterated vengeance against Howard may be her downfall.  We see it with Gus and Hank. And maybe, Walt.  
 

Is it really worth Lalo’s time to bother with Kim or Jimmy?

I honestly think she’s not telling him about Mike and Lalo being alive because she doesn’t want to freak him out and trigger his PTSD from the desert, etc. She can be self serving but I don’t see it here. He’s excited about his new office and new practice and she doesn’t want to scare him right now. 
 

It pained me to see all of those older people falling for Howard’s polished, smarmy, disingenuous BS about the Sandpiper case. Sure, you’re not holding out for more money, you’re doing it to help people, to stick it to those corporate cheats. Give me a fucking break.

 

[Gobi]

8 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

 

I agree Howard's "let's box it out, bro" was weird (to me), but makes sense for his character. But wouldn't a normal person--and a powerful attorney--just, you know, call the cops? The stuff he thinks Jimmy is doing to him are actual crimes, right?

 

Howard doesn’t have any real proof that would get the police involved. We know he’s right because we’ve seen what’s going on, the police haven’t.

Interesting that Howard didn’t tell Cliff that it couldn’t have been him that Cliff saw, because he was in a therapy session at the time (which the therapist could confirm). Nor did he respond to Cliff’s suggestion of therapy by telling him that he’s already in therapy. I think that Howard sees therapy as a sign of weakness, or at least thinks that is how others in the legal profession would view it.

[Cinnabon]

47 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

I think the boxing match was Howard’s attempt at a alpha male way of dealing with a problem.   “Look you have an issue with me let’s punch it out and be fine with it.”   I have seen plenty of men deal with issues like this.   Once the fight is over theoretically you go have a beer with the guy and it’s done.   The problem in this case is that the person actually coming at Howard isn’t Jimmy it is Kim.

He tried, but Howard is really not an alpha male. Did you see what Patrick Fabian said about Howard’s foray into boxing?

*** reposting this excerpt from Patrick Fabian’s Variety interview:

Your stance was much more serious and professional, and Bob did all this showboating and fancy footwork.

That was a deliberate character choice. Bob was like, “He should be the guy who gets up on the ring and plays to an imaginary audience.” Howard is trained, and he’s a rules guy. He took boxing because he had heard it was good for your cardiovascular, and he probably heard some other successful lawyer say boxing is the thing to do. So then Howard bought all the stuff, got the best trainer in Albuquerque, then committed to it and quietly boxed. So when he had his power lunches or he’s golfing and trying to close a deal, he’d be like,“Well, you know my trainer when I box…” It’s another card that Howard gets to pull out to show power and status over somebody else.

https://variety.com/2022/tv/features/better-call-saul-boxing-patrick-fabian-1235262029

 

26 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

I don't know if Kim and Jimmy's scheme to force a quick settlement on Sandpiper will work, but they come off as bigger shit birds than before. That extra money might pay for a sizeable chunk of the attorneys fees and costs, maybe all of it.

Except it may take longer than many of the plaintiffs may live.

Edited May 10, 2022 by Cinnabon

[Cinnabon]

17 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

Detail watch: This episode showed that Gus's surveillance house is next door to his actual house, not across the street from it, right? Makes it much more believable; building a tunnel underneath a street, even a suburban neighborhood street, would be much, much harder than building one to the house on either side.

I agree Howard's "let's box it out, bro" was weird (to me), but makes sense for his character. But wouldn't a normal person--and a powerful attorney--just, you know, call the cops? The stuff he thinks Jimmy is doing to him are actual crimes, right?

 

Not sure if the crimes could be proven.

[Penman61]

Also: Howard DOES know Kim is involved with Jimmy's schemes because Cliff told him Kim arranged the lunch where Cliff would see the staged Wendy expulsion. 

4 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Not sure if the crimes could be proven.

LOL like a powerful white person ever waited for that evidentiary threshold to get the cops involved. Anyway, Howard goes to the cops, story is not as interesting. That's it. But if I thought someone stole my car and tried to impersonate me and tried to plant drugs in my private club locker...I'd call the cops. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Penman61

[SimplexFish]

2 hours ago, Gobi said:

Howard wants to do things the honorable way, if possible. He offers to “settle this like men” with Jimmy. He doesn’t expect this to work, but now his conscience is clear as he goes to plan B.

 

I agree and I think we will hear I tried “settle this like men” with Jimmy in a future episode

[SimplexFish]

3 hours ago, Lonesome Rhodes said:

 

What I absolutely buy is his unreal charms.  That guy last night rivaled any suave and sophisticated character ever played by Cary Grant, Rock Hudson, Errol Flynn, Paul Newman, Rudolph Valentino, or Ricardo Montalban, et al.  In his core, Lalo was a maximum predator of nature, in sheep's wardrobe.  It was thrilling to behold.

 

I wonder how Lalo would have handled the situation if she did have invited him into her cave for the night?

[dwmarch]

58 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Is it really worth Lalo’s time to bother with Kim or Jimmy?

When Lalo heard that the lawyers took all of Werner's files he repeated "lawyers" as if making a note to self to drop in on the ones he knows when he gets back to the States. Personally I don't think one lawyer having those documents means another lawyer can access them but Lalo doesn't know that and he's seen Jimmy's blunt force approach to the law work wonders for him in the recent past...

[SimplexFish]

3 hours ago, Bannon said:

Another general theme of the show, I think, is people not being what they appear to the outside world. Gus, obviously, is not the pillar of the community small businessman. Mike isn't the doting grandfather who was working as a parking lot attendant. 

I don't totally agree with this...Gus' public persona is indeed a fake way to make himself seem like the perfect citizen, however Mike truly is the doting grandfather to Kaylee and in his world she is all that ultimately matters 

3 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

Because real men using violence to resolve conflicts is “honorable?” Jimmy isn’t in the right, but this is also toxic behavior.

I wish this forum had a facepalm emoji...

[marcee]

I am so confused.

[Constantinople]

38 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Except it may take longer than many of the plaintiffs may live.

True, but that's a decision the plaintiffs should make, not Kim & Jimmy.

[Bannon]

9 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

I don't totally agree with this...Gus' public persona is indeed a fake way to make himself seem like the perfect citizen, however Mike truly is the doting grandfather to Kaylee and in his world she is all that ultimately matters 

Yeah, meant more emphasis on the parking lot attendant, and person who avenged his son's murder by murdering the two killers. 

iirc, Mike made his entry into the Albuquerque underworld via the vet, after Mike arrived in Albuquerque with a shoulder wound, suffered in the revenge shootout in Philadelphia. Given how his interaction with Albuquerque's criminal world ends, along with how Gus has his drawn out revenge on Hector end, and what heartache ensues from Jesse seeking revenge on Walt, instead of staying in vacuum repair, I strongly suspect that Kim's hugely elaborate revenge scheme for Howard is going to end in a way that does not please Kim.

 

[Constantinople]

43 minutes ago, Penman61 said:

But if I thought someone stole my car and tried to impersonate me and tried to plant drugs in my private club locker...I'd call the cops. 

That made me wonder. I forget the model of Howard's car, but it's an expensive model. Would it have some kind of tracking device that shows where it's been? The kind used to prevent car theft and to recover stolen vehicles? Could it show where the car was when Howard was in therapy?

[Crashcourse]

I wonder, what is Kim's endgame when it comes to Howard?  Does she want him disbarred, disgraced, or does she want him dead?  Does she even know? 

And will she feel any better if her mission is accomplished, or will she still be the same ol' bitter, hateful Kim?  

[Bannon]

8 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

That made me wonder. I forget the model of Howard's car, but it's an expensive model. Would it have some kind of tracking device that shows where it's been? The kind used to prevent car theft and to recover stolen vehicles? Could it show where the car was when Howard was in therapy?

Howard's car is a Jag, I think. It's possible it has GPS, but in 2004 the feature was less ubiquitous.

[nwolfe]

I was also wondering where the "German" scenes were shot... The road in front of Margharete's house looks like a left-hand traffic (look at the bike road sign, and subsequently the passing vehicles... which essentially means... it could've been shot in the uk maybe??

[Penman61]

30 minutes ago, Constantinople said:

That made me wonder. I forget the model of Howard's car, but it's an expensive model. Would it have some kind of tracking device that shows where it's been? The kind used to prevent car theft and to recover stolen vehicles? Could it show where the car was when Howard was in therapy?

Ask Cliff what time he saw "Howard" push Wendy out of the car. He'll know, plus or minus a few minutes.

Ask Howard's therapist when Howard was in session. The therapist will know precisely (it's how therapists bill).

Anyway, the story has to happen so Howard won't file a police report, but it does require a soupçon of suspension of disbelief for me to accept that. 

Edited May 10, 2022 by Penman61

[Dev F]

2 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

Wouldn't a piece of equipment like that move on a daily basis though? 

They halted construction after Werner's death, so it's not moving anytime soon.

1 hour ago, Penman61 said:

Also: Howard DOES know Kim is involved with Jimmy's schemes because Cliff told him Kim arranged the lunch where Cliff would see the staged Wendy expulsion.

I think he assumes that Jimmy found out about Kim's meeting and decided to crash it without her knowledge.

[Adiba]

Oh Lalo, you psychopathic wily minx,  how did you find Werner’s widow? 
The Lalo scenes were the most interesting parts of this episode for me. This character can be so charming, so gentle and sweet with the little dog—and yet you don’t know if he’s going to murder someone in the next minute.

The boxing match was kind of comical— but it didn’t really advance the story. Even before Kim said that something else was coming, you knew the match didn’t end things.

And Kim— still a bit of an enigma. She wants to be Robin Hood, but her actions may result in unintended and undesirable consequences. She should tell Jimmy about Lalo. She is actually not protecting Jimmy by withholding this information, imo.

[chick binewski]

13 hours ago, SimplexFish said:

That episode was a disappointment.... 

 

2 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Sadly, I’m starting to dislike Kim as well. Her hatred of Howard still doesn’t make complete sense to me, either in its intensity or timing. I also have issues with the secrets that she is keeping from Jimmy: that Lalo is alive, that she met Mike and that Mike having them followed. Sure - it’s easy to say that she wants to keep Jimmy safe by not sharing those secrets but it’s likely more complicated and self serving than that. Sigh…

I’m not particularly entertained watching Gus’ paranoia. Yes, he is afraid of Lalo. Everyone is and with good reason. Obviously, all of these moments, like scrubbing grout with a toothbrush, are leading up to something much bigger. I’m just getting impatient. 

I assume that Lalo has super powers. Once again, Tony Dalton proves that he could be utterly charming and terrifying in the span of a few minutes. While I completely forgot that Werner encountered Lalo, I understood immediately why he was maneuvering himself into a conversation with Werner’s lovely wife. At least she and her cute doggy escaped unharmed.

I didn't love Hit and Run or Black and Blue and I think a big part of it is the Destruction of Howard is not in itself a worthwhile story to watch when many of us are flummoxed at Kim's fixation. Saul doesn't even look that focused on it in comparison to his previous cons - more like he's playing along.

I'm much more locked with the cartel stuff - even though I agree, watching this side of Gus is off-putting, especially since he's been working this plan for decades already. And the residents who remain non-verbal to some of Gus's crew is just odd.

I do wonder how the tunnel will be revealed (or eventually blocked by Gus).

I'm glad we went back to Germany, and I can buy Lalo making contact with Margarethe after TravelWire and the call to Werner. What's less believable is an escaped murderer with ties to the cartel swanning around Europe post-9/11.

One thing I did like this episode was Howard speaking to the residents of Sandpiper. Engaging with everyone and charming them - just like Jimmy.

[Bannon]

3 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

 

I didn't love Hit and Run or Black and Blue and I think a big part of it is the Destruction of Howard is not in itself a worthwhile story to watch when many of us are flummoxed at Kim's fixation. Saul doesn't even look that focused on it in comparison to his previous cons - more like he's playing along.

I'm much more locked with the cartel stuff - even though I agree, watching this side of Gus is off-putting, especially since he's been working this plan for decades already. And the residents who remain non-verbal to some of Gus's crew is just odd.

I do wonder how the tunnel will be revealed (or eventually blocked by Gus).

I'm glad we went back to Germany, and I can buy Lalo making contact with Margarethe after TravelWire and the call to Werner. What's less believable is an escaped murderer with ties to the cartel swanning around Europe post-9/11.

One thing I did like this episode was Howard speaking to the residents of Sandpiper. Engaging with everyone and charming them - just like Jimmy.

I completely understand why Kim hates Howard. A LOT. I'm waiting for the writers to more fully flesh out why Kim Wexler, super competent attorney who had reached the upper echelon of success in practicing law in the state she chose to reside it, has decided that acting on that hatred is so overwhelmingly important, to the point of risking everything she's spent the last dozen years working so hard for. She's been the one egging Saul along in this scheme, after all.

[Ed-]

8 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

One thing I did like this episode was Howard speaking to the residents of Sandpiper. Engaging with everyone and charming them - just like Jimmy.

Great point. Maybe Howard explicitly thought, "What would Jimmy/Saul do to save the case?". Recall that the Sandpiper case had once been the one through which Jimmy expected to become a partner at HHM, which was denied primarily by Chuck, but Howard could have been less obstinate himself. I see the Sandpiper case at that time as the single biggest inflection point where Jimmy had a reasonable expectation of breaking the glass ceiling. Same goes for Kim. In another timeline, instead of Howard, it could have been Jimmy or Kim there in front of the clients, saving the day in a similar way. 

[Cinnabon]

47 minutes ago, chick binewski said:

 

I didn't love Hit and Run or Black and Blue and I think a big part of it is the Destruction of Howard is not in itself a worthwhile story to watch when many of us are flummoxed at Kim's fixation. Saul doesn't even look that focused on it in comparison to his previous cons - more like he's playing along.

I'm much more locked with the cartel stuff - even though I agree, watching this side of Gus is off-putting, especially since he's been working this plan for decades already. And the residents who remain non-verbal to some of Gus's crew is just odd.

I do wonder how the tunnel will be revealed (or eventually blocked by Gus).

I'm glad we went back to Germany, and I can buy Lalo making contact with Margarethe after TravelWire and the call to Werner. What's less believable is an escaped murderer with ties to the cartel swanning around Europe post-9/11.

One thing I did like this episode was Howard speaking to the residents of Sandpiper. Engaging with everyone and charming them - just like Jimmy.

Charming them with sleazy BS. But yes, much like Jimmy.

I wonder what name is on Lalo’s passport?

[gallimaufry]

I agree that something's not really working this season despite the fact that this was actually a really good episode in lots of ways.

I think the problem is that we know it's the final season and yet the show continues to play out exactly as it always has - patiently, deliberately, with great character material - except it's fast running out of road to play with so it now starts to feel indulgent.  I think they're right to end it with S6 given the ages of many of the cast members and the ever-escalating implausibility that they could play younger versions of BB (although none of the age mismatches are yet as bad as "El Camino").  But it feels very late on for Francesca's arrival.  We still know basically nothing new about Gus's past that we didn't know in BB.  Mike's storyline is almost entirely now as Gus's fixer which means his character is largely subsumed into Gus's plotline.  Nacho's death was fantastic in itself but in the arc of the series it feels ever-more like one long dead end -- will the character ever be mentioned again?  Was there a reason we followed him for so long?  And then there's Kim and Howard.  I can figure out a way to rationalise Kim's actions but the more mean-spirited it is towards Howard, the more it feels like we need some fuel in the motivational tank to figure out what's going on.

I will say that Tatlock and Cherkis don't really deliver as much for me as Smith, Schnauz and the much-missed Hutchison (or even Heather Marion).  I know these episodes are all plotted together and so heavily reflect the group effort but 604 and 605 especially still feel a little flimsy to me.

I liked Howard's boxing match idea in principle.  I don't think it's toxic at all -- he's trying to meet Jimmy on his level but in a sportsmanlike way.  It says everything about him that he thinks this could ever be a solution - he thinks inside the ring whereas Jimmy is way outside it.  But as a match, it wasn't tremendously interesting.  And while Howard hiring a PI is a good twist, the mystery of Kim's tail already suggested that Howard might have a PI so we're in the unusual situation of waiting for the character to catch up to where the audience is, something this show almost never does. 

I liked the 30% argument.  I can see it both ways really.  Just because they go for an extra 30% doesn't mean they'll get an extra 30% and the time they're waiting could be a significant portion of the lives of these people; on the other hand, it's still a significant figure.  What was interesting to me more is that Howard could turn on the charm and the selling - he is a decent salesman.  Maybe not Jimmy good, but still decent.  The bits with Cliff were fun too -- it seems he's viewing it through the prism of his son rather than considering any other malign motive.

I kind of wish the PI was the one Chuck hired.  I did momentarily think of Wormald too but it's clearly a different guy.

I really loved Viola getting a proper scene and decent characterisation.

I also loved and was shocked by the appearance of Margarita.  Totally did not predict it.  Rhea Seehorn mentioned something when doing press about a new character that shocked her and I thought that seemed strange given how late on we are to be adding new people.  This makes sense.  I love the way they're handling Lalo this season.  The character can be a bit overwhelming and early in Season 5 the show really felt blown off course by him.  But used in small bursts like this and as a looming threat, he's perfect.  And seeing him like this, charm personified, was perfect.

I enjoyed the Gus scenes although I felt like a lot of the stuff at his house was sold perfectly well last week.  Looks like something interesting is still to go down in the Superlab.

Another great teaser - a nice misdirect with what initially appeared to be meth.  I wondered if the brothers with Gus and Schuler.  Just another loose end for the back 8 episodes.

If this was an episode in mid-S4, I'd be really happy.  But while I hope it will hang together in retrospect, the show does feel quite precarious at present.  Let's hope the next two deliver.

[Bannon]

The way Kim and Saul spoke about the scheme in this episode makes me suspect that the play has been all along to let Howard know that Saul,  and maybe Kim, were plotting against him, then to convince him another element of the plot was unfolding, so as to get him to do something that would appear, to the outside world, to be extremely irrational, if that something does not  reveal such a scheme. At this point I'm guessing it has something to do with making Howard think that someone is impersonating the Sandpiper mediator.

Lesser writers would have made Howard a wholly unsympathetic character, and Kim wholly sympathetic. It is a credit to these writers that they have instead pushed these two characters in respectively opposite directions.

[Cinnabon]

1 minute ago, Bannon said:

The way Kim and Saul spoke about the scheme in this episode makes me suspect that the play has been all along to let Howard know that Saul,  and maybe Kim, were plotting against him, then to convince him another element of the plot was unfolding, so as to get him to do something that would appear, to the outside world, to be extremely irrational, if that something does not  reveal such a scheme. At this point I'm guessing it has something to do with making Howard think that someone is impersonating the Sandpiper mediator.

Lesser writers would have made Howard a wholly unsympathetic character, and Kim wholly sympathetic. It is a credit to these writers that they have instead pushed these two characters in respectively opposite directions.

Yes, they are both complex, multifaceted people. As most of us are. I find it interesting that we’ve been spending so much time discussing the “darker” sides of Kim and Howard, when they’re absolute saints compared to almost everyone else in the main cast. I mean, Mike has some good qualities, but what he’s doing and will continue to do is evil and immoral. But sometimes it feels like Kim gets judged more harshly than he does.

[SimplexFish]

3 hours ago, monakane said:

Except for the stuff with Lalo, this was a meh episode.  It didn't move any of the other character's stories.  That being said, I was terrified for that woman and her dog.

Yes agreed, but it was like The Fly BB episode...mostly a waste of time

Edited May 10, 2022 by SimplexFish

[Bannon]

4 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Yes, they are both complex, multifaceted people. As most of us are. I find it interesting that we’ve been spending so much time discussing the “darker” sides of Kim and Howard, when they’re absolute saints compared to almost everyone else in the main cast. I mean, Mike has some good qualities, but what he’s doing and will continue to do is evil and immoral. But sometimes it feels like Kim gets judged more harshly than he does.

I certainly don't judge her more harshly (don't mean to imply you were saying I did), but she is the character I understand  least at this point. I think that's the major element to be addressed in the last 8 episodes.

[Penman61]

19 minutes ago, SimplexFish said:

Yes agreed, but it was like The Fly BB episode...mostly a waste of time

Lalo being buried in the superlab MIGHT EXPLAIN THE FLY OH MY GOD YOU GUYS