S02.E07: Monsters

[millennium]

3 hours ago, Haleth said:

<slaps forehead>  Of course that was Callis.  I too thought it was Siddig and felt it was a cool crossover.  Why did Picard not recognize him as his father right away?

I recognized Gaius Baltar instantly.   By voice alone.   Why would they use such a familiar and despicable personality from another famous sci-fi universe to be Picard's father?   Were no other actors available?   Baltar jerked me out of the story immediately (not that it was terribly compelling to begin with).

 

 

Edited April 16, 2022 by millennium

[Starchild]

I can't figure out if this was ridiculously self-indulgent, or self-indulgently ridiculous. I guess there's no reason it can't be both.

I thought the whole abusive father thing was something that Stewart wanted included because of his personal history, but interesting they've turned it into a bipolar mother. Weird they still haven't been able to treat that by Picard's time, it's just biochemistry.

I rolled my eyes at the timecop. Why would they look at that and not think it was a camera artefact, just like Guinan said? And even if they do believe some guy just appeared out of nowhere, exactly what crime has been broken that he'd be arrested in a raid by local cops? what would they base a warrant on? Wouldn't the federal government be more likely. Sigh.

[Chit Chat]

2 minutes ago, Starchild said:

I rolled my eyes at the timecop. Why would they look at that and not think it was a camera artefact, just like Guinan said?

They should've had Tommy Lee Jones enter the bar in a black suit, ala 'Men In Black' style.  ;)  

[paigow]

7 minutes ago, ChitChat said:

They should've had Tommy Lee Jones enter the bar in a black suit, ala 'Men In Black' style.  ;)  

 

[Hiyo]

Quote

Why would they use such a familiar and despicable personality from another famous sci-fi universe to be Picard's father?  

They're hoping most viewers can separate the actor from the role?

I mean, I only watched the first couple of seasons of Brothers & Sisters, but even so, I never once shouted at the TV screen "Look out everyone, it's Sloane!"

Edited April 16, 2022 by Hiyo

[paigow]

3 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

They're hoping most viewers can separate the actor from the role?

They needed another English sounding French dude....

[Hiyo]

I guess that's why they passed on Siddig, since they didn't want an English sounding Arab dude...

Or you know, maybe they just hired someone they thought was good for the role...

Edited April 16, 2022 by Hiyo

[millennium]

1 minute ago, Hiyo said:

They're hoping most viewers can separate the actor from the role?

Very difficult when when the character they played is iconic.   Not to mention when they play the new role in virtually the same way as the previous one.

Did any sci-fi fan ever see William Shatner on Marcus Welby, Mannix or The Six Million Dollar Man and not think "Captain Kirk?"

[Hiyo]

You mean the way people kept wondering what Picard was doing in a wheel chair when they watched the X-men movies?

It isn't that diffucult, tbh. Not for me, anyway.

[Starchild]

So it turns out that Q used virtually the exact same line when he met Picard ("There's a thousand ways to die out here") that Picard's father used during that seminal event in Picard's childhood ("There's a thousand ways to die down there").

Guys, is Q actually Picard's Dad?

[ML89]

On 4/15/2022 at 1:47 AM, Cthulhudrew said:

Glad I wasn't the only one that did a doubletake.

Me three. 

So, FBI, huh? Why not get Robert Patrick? 
 

[millennium]

1 hour ago, ML89 said:

Me three. 

So, FBI, huh? Why not get Robert Patrick? 
 

Or David Duchovny, for that matter.   Apparently people would not think "Fox Mulder."

[MissLucas]

2 hours ago, Starchild said:

So it turns out that Q used virtually the exact same line when he met Picard ("There's a thousand ways to die out here") that Picard's father used during that seminal event in Picard's childhood ("There's a thousand ways to die down there").

Guys, is Q actually Picard's Dad?

Good catch! I thought it was a weird line to say to your kid but it makes sense as a callback. Though I doubt it's as easy (and frustrating) as Q being Picard's father.

[Hiyo]

David Duchovny on this show would be awesome!

[millennium]

The repetitive apprehensions by police/soldiers/security guards are getting tiresome -- worse, they eat up valuable minutes because each one necessitates capture/attempt to resist/escape before the show can move on.   So far, we've seen Elnor and Raffi stopped by Confederate security guards twice, Picard and friends apprehended by Confederate authorities aboard La Sirena, Rios captured by ICE agents, Jurati confronted by a policeman aboard La Sirena, Jurati captured (deliberately) by security guards, Picard pursued by security guards, now Picard and Guinan apprehended by Dutch.   It feels like the plot scarcely starts to move again before somebody else is placed in restraints.  

3 hours ago, Starchild said:

Guys, is Q actually Picard's Dad?

It occurred to me that Q might be masquerading as Picard's Dad just to mess with him.

[Starchild]

It feels like they had nowhere near enough story for a whole season, hence arrests, near-arrests, chases and dreamscapes.

[millennium]

1 hour ago, Starchild said:

It feels like they had nowhere near enough story for a whole season, hence arrests, near-arrests, chases and dreamscapes.

It's regrettable they had to do yet another story about Picard's past.   I remember the ending of Nemesis, Picard pulling himself together after the death of Data, moving forward with determination and a glimmer of hope.  Maybe that's where they should have left him because that Picard was looking forward, not back.   Even Picard Season 1 was premised on the idea that Picard had been stagnating and now he had a second chance to make a difference again.   Isn't that what Kirk advised him in Generations?  

Quote

Don't let them promote you, don't let them transfer you, don't let them do anything that takes you off the bridge of that ship, because while you're there, you can make a difference.

Season 2 Picard isn't making any difference.   His reality has been put on pause while he takes a side-trip into an alternate reality.   Even if he restores his own reality (and I kinda sorta think he will), nothing about the world or the universe will be improved.   Maybe Picard will be open to a relationship with Laris, but that seems like a meager and selfish result.   Star Trek heroes have always sacrificed their own happiness to make the world/society/universe better.    I could more easily accept Picard's personal happiness as one of several outcomes of the season (for example, if they had written a few standalone episodes where Picard and his crew save a world or two) rather than the only outcome.

I think you are right in observing that there is "nowhere near enough story for a whole season" and wish the showrunners had recognized that themselves .

[dwmarch]

5 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Though I doubt it's as easy (and frustrating) as Q being Picard's father.

Repeating my speculation from a previous episode, based on the emphasis on Picard getting his romance on I think it's the other way around: Picard is Q's father.

[Starchild]

4 minutes ago, dwmarch said:

Picard is Q's father.

How?

[paigow]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

I think you are right in observing that there is "nowhere near enough story for a whole season" and wish the showrunners had recognized that themselves .

The Boba Fett team realized that and wrote Mandalorian episodes to fill out the season.

[kirinan]

10 hours ago, millennium said:

I recognized Gaius Baltar instantly.   By voice alone.   Why would they use such a familiar and despicable personality from another famous sci-fi universe to be Picard's father?   Were no other actors available?   Baltar jerked me out of the story immediately (not that it was terribly compelling to begin with).

I never watched that show, but my husband, who was a big fan, had no issues with the casting and thought he did a good job as Picard’s father. I only know James Callis as Tom, Bridget Jones’ gay BFF, but I was impressed by his performance here.

[salaydouk]

7 hours ago, Starchild said:

Guys, is Q actually Picard's Dad?

Is it possible, I can't say that it is not, but... 

Given Q's reaction in the episode "True Q", when he told Picard about Amanda Rodgers' origins and how her parents took human mortal form, conceived a child, and then got attached to it... I somehow remember Q using the word "vulgar", so somehow it just doesn't seem plausible that he(Q) would go there. 

10 hours ago, millennium said:

I recognized Gaius Baltar instantly.   By voice alone.   Why would they use such a familiar and despicable personality from another famous sci-fi universe to be Picard's father?   Were no other actors available?   Baltar jerked me out of the story immediately (not that it was terribly compelling to begin with).

 

 

I recognized him(Callis/Baltar) immediately as well... but I was having more fun with the irony of Callis here playing a psychologist, at least initially, trying to help someone while 15 years ago he played the role of a supreme sociopathic narcissist who was in desperate need of a psychologist.  

Also if anyone is keeping score Callis has to have something like 20lbs/10kg on Siddig, so you can tell them apart just by that alone.  For some reason, Siddig actually appears thinner now then when he was on DS9. 

[millennium]

54 minutes ago, salaydouk said:

Also if anyone is keeping score Callis has to have something like 20lbs/10kg on Siddig, so you can tell them apart just by that alone.  For some reason, Siddig actually appears thinner now then when he was on DS9. 

I thought Callis did a good job on Game of Thrones. 

😉

[Haleth]

7 hours ago, millennium said:

I thought Callis did a good job on Game of Thrones. 

😉

grumble, grumble  Biggest pet peeve (among many) of GoT was the abomination of the Dorne storyline.

Why is Q concerned with the love life of an 80+yo man?

[SnarkShark]

18 hours ago, millennium said:

Very difficult when when the character they played is iconic.   Not to mention when they play the new role in virtually the same way as the previous one.

Did any sci-fi fan ever see William Shatner on Marcus Welby, Mannix or The Six Million Dollar Man and not think "Captain Kirk?"

I might have dwelled on this more if this episode wasn't epically crap in so many other ways.  The actor behind Pa-card was pretty far down a list containing dozens of other eye rollingly ridiculous things in this episode.

[Starchild]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

Why is Q concerned with the love life of an 80+yo man?

Because he needs his parents to kiss so he doesn't fade from existence. ;)

[chaifan]

If Borg Queen Jurati gets her Borg powers back through endorphins, why isn't Jurati going around having sex with every hot guy she sees?  Maybe it's just me, but I'd think that would get the endorphins jumping more than just smashing windows.  

[paigow]

53 minutes ago, chaifan said:

If Borg Queen Jurati gets her Borg powers back through endorphins, why isn't Jurati going around having sex with every hot guy she sees?  

Then the title becomes Crank

[salaydouk]

1 hour ago, chaifan said:

If Borg Queen Jurati gets her Borg powers back through endorphins, why isn't Jurati going around having sex with every hot guy she sees?  Maybe it's just me, but I'd think that would get the endorphins jumping more than just smashing windows.  

But if the Borg Queen is in control, then perhaps the idea of biological copulation is too repugnant for her tech/mech perfect self/brain to go there?  She should have manipulated Jurati to have sex with every hot guy before she took over control... I mean that could be the reason why she tried to "help" Jurati when she was at the bar with Rios.  

[Llywela]

The Borg Queen pushed Jurati to snog Rios because she knew they have a history and she thought she could use it to get what she wanted, which was full control. Now that she has full control I'd imagine arranging to have even perfunctory sex with random men would be a lot more trouble than she can be bothered with, not when she can get the rush of endorphins she needs just by wandering around smashing stuff, which is much easier and more immediate and doesn't require even the most basic of social interaction.

18 hours ago, millennium said:

It's regrettable they had to do yet another story about Picard's past.   I remember the ending of Nemesis, Picard pulling himself together after the death of Data, moving forward with determination and a glimmer of hope.  Maybe that's where they should have left him because that Picard was looking forward, not back.   Even Picard Season 1 was premised on the idea that Picard had been stagnating and now he had a second chance to make a difference again.   Isn't that what Kirk advised him in Generations?  

Season 2 Picard isn't making any difference.   His reality has been put on pause while he takes a side-trip into an alternate reality.   Even if he restores his own reality (and I kinda sorta think he will), nothing about the world or the universe will be improved.   Maybe Picard will be open to a relationship with Laris, but that seems like a meager and selfish result.   Star Trek heroes have always sacrificed their own happiness to make the world/society/universe better.    I could more easily accept Picard's personal happiness as one of several outcomes of the season (for example, if they had written a few standalone episodes where Picard and his crew save a world or two) rather than the only outcome.

I mean, he was making a difference. He'd rejoined Starfleet as Chancellor of the Academy, he went back out into space to consult on the anomaly Stargazer had found, he had pulled himself together to move forward with determination and a glimmer or hope. It's just that events then conspired to the point where Q pulled him out of his own timeline into another and sent him off on this crazy mission, sidetracking him quite irrevocably from his chosen path.

I don't think Q's motivation has anything to do with Picard turning down Laris when she made a pass at him, either. It isn't about his lack of a love life, that was just a symptom of a deeper issue, which is his lifelong reluctance to truly open up and commit to anyone, whether friend or lover. I mean, his TNG crew adored him, he clearly still holds them among his dearest friends, but look how many years it took him just to unwind enough to join them for their regular poker game. Something in him always holds back, even with his closest friends, he will only open up so much and no further. And that seems to be what Q has homed in on, for whatever reason.

The trigger moment for this jaunt through time wasn't Picard's rejection of Laris, mind. It was hitting self-destruct on the Stargazer. But for some reason Q seems to think the two are connected - not Laris, but that part of Picard that always holds himself aloof, of which she was a symptom. We have yet to learn what that connection was - and only three episodes let to find out.

On 4/16/2022 at 5:00 PM, millennium said:

I recognized Gaius Baltar instantly.   By voice alone.   Why would they use such a familiar and despicable personality from another famous sci-fi universe to be Picard's father?   Were no other actors available?   Baltar jerked me out of the story immediately (not that it was terribly compelling to begin with).

Why shouldn't they cast James Callis? Why should he be barred taking a job just because he had a successful role in another show almost two decades ago? Actors need to work, they hop franchises all the time, and why shouldn't they?

7 hours ago, Haleth said:

Why is Q concerned with the love life of an 80+yo man?

See above. It isn't about Picard's love life. (Picard is about 96 at this point, not 80).

[Cthulhudrew]

2 hours ago, paigow said:

Then the title becomes Crank

Or Species

[millennium]

23 minutes ago, Llywela said:

Why shouldn't they cast James Callis? Why should he be barred taking a job just because he had a successful role in another show almost two decades ago? Actors need to work, they hop franchises all the time, and why shouldn't they?

Actors do need to work.   And there's a galaxy of other actors out there who would probably do a comparable or perhaps better job than Callis without the Baltar flashbacks.  But they didn't get the chance because the casting people made the lazy choice and went with a safe and recognizable personality.  YMMV.

[salaydouk]

7 hours ago, Llywela said:

I don't think Q's motivation has anything to do with Picard turning down Laris when she made a pass at him, either. It isn't about his lack of a love life, that was just a symptom of a deeper issue, which is his lifelong reluctance to truly open up and commit to anyone, whether friend or lover. I mean, his TNG crew adored him, he clearly still holds them among his dearest friends, but look how many years it took him just to unwind enough to join them for their regular poker game. Something in him always holds back, even with his closest friends, he will only open up so much and no further. And that seems to be what Q has homed in on, for whatever reason.

The trigger moment for this jaunt through time wasn't Picard's rejection of Laris, mind. It was hitting self-destruct on the Stargazer. But for some reason Q seems to think the two are connected - not Laris, but that part of Picard that always holds himself aloof, of which she was a symptom. We have yet to learn what that connection was - and only three episodes let to find out.

 

Regarding Picard and the affection his TNG crew had for him and his inability to join them for off work activities.  The thing is you cannot really use that as an example to show he had/has an issue with opening up - though I agree that he does.  In the running of a ship, and using the US Navy as the best analogy and which is the basis for all of ST, the ship's captain normally does _not_ socialize with any member of his/her command/crew- aside from staff meetings. It is seen as being against "good order and discipline" to do so as the captain needs to have the ability to give any person under his/her command any order - even an order that will lead to that persons death - and without having any emotional attachments that might alter his/her decision making. (This was the reason why LT CMDR Daren, needed to be transferred off the Enterprise.)  So Picard staying away from his crew was actually _very_ accurate. 

As for "hitting the self-destruct" and whether or not it was the right call... for the purposes of the story they are trying to tell, ie they "missed something" in their ignorance etc, I am not even going to speculate.  But from a military process/perspective, looking at the situation they had in front of them it was 100% the right call for it to be initiated- you cannot allow an enemy/hostile force to take control of your ship.  Full Stop.   

 

 

Edited April 18, 2022 by salaydouk

[Hiyo]

Quote

Why shouldn't they cast James Callis? Why should he be barred taking a job just because he had a successful role in another show almost two decades ago? Actors need to work, they hop franchises all the time, and why shouldn't they?

Amen to that.

[Haleth]

1 hour ago, millennium said:

But they didn't get the chance because the casting people made the lazy choice and went with a safe and recognizable personality. 

I think that was the point. But since several of us thought he was someone else it was a big fail. 😄

[MissLucas]

Certain actors are just sci-fi and fantasy favorites - both Siddig and Callis fall into that category. Between them they've covered ST (Picard, Voyager and DS9), Eureka, BG, Merlin (both), Primeval, Atlantis, GoT, Star Wars (The Bad Batch), Foundation, Gotham, 12 Monkeys, FlashForward, Castlevania and Arrow - I'm pretty sure I've missed some shows. And I'm also sure that even a correct list of both their appearances in genre shows would be shorter than Mark Sheppard's.

 

 

[greekmom]

Was talking this one over with my bestie and we both agree that the "writers" had a missed opportunity when Guinan did the ritual of summoning the Q.  In could have walked in...... Suzie Plakson as Female Q!  She could have come to assist Picard and co. to pickup and talk some sense into Q. I mean she has been with him for eons.

And don't give me the throwaway line that she left Q and Jr.  If they can retcon alot of other stuff, they can retcon that line.

 

[starri]

17 hours ago, salaydouk said:

But if the Borg Queen is in control, then perhaps the idea of biological copulation is too repugnant for her tech/mech perfect self/brain to go there?

We've seen that at least some Borg are born biologically.

[salaydouk]

5 hours ago, starri said:

We've seen that at least some Borg are born biologically.

Agreed.. I mean that is the case for every assimilated Borg drone. Also in the episode the Borg was first introduced, there was a scene that showed babies that were in the process of having the "mechanics" being "added to them.  So there was this concept that Borg reproduced biologically, but that was never continued.   

But with the Borg Queen, I always thought of her as the summation of the collective and as such I never thought of her as an actual biological being.  Her body was mostly artificial and from what we have seen just really a bio head/chest. But how much of that head/chest is actually a biological, ie is it just skin, we don't know either.   Also given ST First Contact where Data was seen as the ideal lifeform.  All that makes me think that for the Borg Collective, and therefore its queen, that artificial life is considered superiour to biological life.  So that leads me the idea that the Borq Queen would have "issues" with biological functions. 😝

Edited April 18, 2022 by salaydouk

[paigow]

28 minutes ago, salaydouk said:

 Also given ST First Contact where Data was seen as the ideal lifeform. 

[Hiyo]

Sweaty Patrick Stewart in a tank top...yum.

[tennisgurl]

Always good to see James Callis, sci-fi actors have got to stick together. I am really torn on this episode, and it probably speaks to my thoughts on the season in general. Its giving us exactly what they said they would give us to an extent, more exploration into the life and psychology as Picard, and I have found that to be really interesting, but we also have a lot of other things happening, with the Borg and Q and the bad future, and while I am sure they will all end up coming together (or I sure hope they do) they all feel pretty disjointed now. We all signed up for a show focused on Picard, so its probably unfair of me to watch it to be more of a typical Star Trek show, and I don't really think I want that either, but I admit that I would like to maybe focus on some other aspects of Picard and not all of this. I find myself wishing we had just had the time travel, or the alternate universe, or the Borg, or the Q, or just a couple of those things. All of that, mixed with all of the Picard psychology, it feels disjointed and every plot feels underused. At least last season everything was pretty much about the syns and the Borg, which tied into each other thematically. Even that all was focused around new aspects of Picard as a character, him finding purpose in his life again after his angry retirement, and that all tied together into the seasons themes of finding why you exist and what it means to be alive. I like a lot of aspects of the season, but I keep waiting for it all to really come together, whether its through the story or just a greater theme. There is a lot to like here, but a lot that feels like its still warming up, despite being pretty far into the season. 

I thought the "I'm from Chile, I just work in space" line was cute, its one of my favorite Voyage Home exchanges. I have enjoyed the Voyage Home references quite a bit, even though honestly I wish they could have cribbed a bit more from that movies style and tone beyond the shout outs, even if they are fun. 

Edited April 18, 2022 by tennisgurl

[paigow]

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

No James Callis therapist for Mama Picard I guess, and not many improvements when it comes to therapy or medication for mental illness in the future. 

If they lived in Paris, there would have been plenty of therapists...

6 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 mental health treatment was straight out of Jane Eyre. 

When Picard was young.. Dr. Simon Van Gelder would have already perfected his treatments and passed them on to disciples

[Llywela]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

I guess the Federation really went through a Dickensian phase when Picard was a kid, every kid dressed like the Artful Dodger and mental health treatment was straight out of Jane Eyre. No James Callis therapist for Mama Picard I guess, and not many improvements when it comes to therapy or medication for mental illness in the future. Where's Troi when you need her?

I didn't see treatment straight out of Jane Eyre. Bear in mind that what we saw in this episode was a single day, a single formative traumatic event in the young Jean Luc's life. And then consider what we actually saw, when all the more fanciful elements were stripped away. We saw young Jean Luc painting with his mother in the conservatory - she was very much not locked up in Jane Eyre fashion, she was living her life, enjoying time with her son. Then her mental stability went on a downward spiral - because, we later learned, she had stopped taking her medication. Which tells us that she was on medication, that her mental health was being managed through meds, not through being locked up; going off those meds was her choice and we don't know the reason. We also don't know that she wasn't offered therapy - based on what we know of Trek it seems almost certain that therapy was part of her treatment. But Trek has always emphasised the right of the individual to choose; she may not have wanted therapy, we don't know. So on this one particular day, when she was off her medication, she started talking about monsters and took her confused young son down into tunnels beneath the house that he'd always been told to never go into because it was dangerous. He then got his foot stuck and she ran off without him. He was trapped alone in the dark for hours before his father found him. Maurice then had to search the tunnels for Yvette, and he dragged her out and locked her safely into a room in the house on that particular day, as an emergency measure, because it was either that or leave her wandering the tunnels, lost in her delusion. She could have died down there. She was a danger to herself and others at that point. But nothing in the story indicates that she was locked up in that room for the rest of her life, Jane Eyre style. It would have been a temporary measure, until he could get a doctor out to see her and get her stabilised again.

We don't know the end of the story yet because that's when Picard woke up. It seems clear that something else happened after what we saw, and we'll no doubt find out what before the season ends. But ultimately, while the imagery we've been seeing in the flashbacks and in Picard's dream was a bit Jane Eyre, yes, those horrifying images of her being dragged away by a monster and locked into a room screaming was only a partial truth, a moment in time remembered through the distorting lens of a child's memory, a child who was frightened and didn't understand what was going on. That imagery is not what actually happened.

Edited April 18, 2022 by Llywela

[tennisgurl]

16 minutes ago, Llywela said:

I didn't see treatment straight out of Jane Eyre. Bear in mind that what we saw in this episode was a single day, a single formative traumatic event in the young Jean Luc's life. And then consider what we actually saw, when all the more fanciful elements were stripped away.

I admit that I was exaggerating for comedic affect, although I do feel like the way this has all played out has felt a bit off. I am interested in seeing more context for what is actually going on, there is clearly more to the story even beyond Picard seeing his mom being attacked by a "monster" in some kind of fantasy world, I am curious if this ties further into the Picard family tree. More time travel? Honestly, its totally in character for Picard to imagine things in this very dramatic Dickensian kind of manner, even beyond having repressed memories. That's Picard, he does have a taste for the retro and for the dramatic, as stoic as he is. 

[benteen]

Ugh. That ending. After three episodes of Rios in ICE custody, we will now be "treated" to another episode of Picard and company dealing with 21st-century law enforcement. Great, EXACTLY what this show needs right now...

At least we got answers about Picard's 85-year, apparently life-defining trauma and can now move onto the rest of the season. Oh wait, we can't because Picard is STILL hiding something about his past. Super...

At least we got to see Q again...no, scratch that. After a great return in the first two episodes of Picard, he has either been MIA like he was in this episode or used poorly. Q's best scenes were always with Picard and it's been a terrible mistake to keep the two of them apart. It's not deLancie's fault but what little we have seen of Q has been boring.

I guess Renee Picard has been shuffled off this show. Because Picard just had to have a relative that was so important. 

I thought the writers were supposed to have learned from some of their mistakes last season. Despite many flaws, Picard Season 1 was good. But the writing has been worse this year and I can't imagine that boys well for Season 3 as they were shot back-to-back.

I thought that was Dr. Bashir in the beginning. I then remembered that Bashir was not a physcotrist. Then I saw that it wasn't him. I can't believe I didn't realize that it was James Callis, whom I've always thought looked so much like Alexander Siddig. He was the best thing about this episode and I've always been a fan of this work. Of course Picard would have a guest star from Battlestar Galactica, the overrated show they are so desperate to be.

Patrick Stewart was very good in this episode but again, I feel far too much o. This show that I am watching Patrick Stewart playing Picard as opposed to seeing Picard. Picard's issues are now suddenly because of an 85-year-old trauma that he's repressed until now? Patrick Stewart having creative control has not been a good thing ever since the awful Insurrection. 

I liked Rios beaming the doctor and her kid on board, even if it was another Voyage Home ripoff.

Edited April 21, 2022 by benteen

[norcalgal]

10 hours ago, benteen said:

Ugh. That ending. After three episodes of Rios in ICE custody, we will now be "treated" to another episode of Picard and company dealing with 21st-century law enforcement. Great, EXACTLY what this show needs right now...

At least we got answers about Picard's 85-year, apparently life-defining trauma and can now move onto the rest of the season. Oh wait, we can't because Picard is STILL hiding something about his past. Super...

At least we got to see Q again...no, scratch that. After a great return in the first two episodes of Picard, he has either been MIA like he was in this episode or used poorly. Q's best scenes were always with Picard and it's been a terrible mistake to keep the two of them apart. It's not deLancie's fault but what little we have seen of Q has been boring.

I guess Renee Picard has been shuffled off this show. Because Picard just had to have a relative that was so important. 

I thought the writers were supposed to have learned from some of their mistakes last season. Despite many flaws, Picard Season 1 was good. But the writing has been worse this year and I can't imagine that boys well for Season 3 as they were shot back-to-back.

[snip]  ....awful Insurrection. 

ITA on all the points above, esp. the parts I bolded. In fact, I can barely remember what happened in Insurrection except Picard having a romance with a local, and Data riding a dune buggy and then finding an android "clone" of himself.

 

[eelpout]

On 4/14/2022 at 7:09 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

They can redeem some of this storyline for me, though, if Jay Karnes' character turns out to be Agent Gale.

Or Agent/Detective Wagenbach. ;)

Edited April 21, 2022 by eelpout

[Sandman]

On 4/14/2022 at 2:11 PM, Llywela said:

Character development: Picard confronted longstanding childhood trauma and gained new insight into his parents as individuals, their relationship, and the way his flawed understanding of the issues they faced has shaped him throughout his life. That's a pretty big character development, in fact.

There’s deeper examination, and there’s pulling retcon crap out of its ass. This version of Picard seems far less functional than we’ve known him to be. I’m having a hard time buying this backstory about childhood trauma, because Picard’s reserve has been made to seem pathological in a way that doesn’t feel organic or justified to me. 

I totally thought that Maurice (Callis) was a version of Bashir, too.  
 

And I admit it: I found the “I work in outer space” Voyage Home callback kind of cute. They’d better not go to that well many more times, but it was cute. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by Sandman
It was!

[norcalgal]

2 hours ago, Sandman said:

There’s deeper examination, and there’s pulling retcon crap out of its ass. This version of Picard seems far less functional than we’ve known him to be. I’m having a hard time buying this backstory about childhood trauma, because Picard’s reserve has been made to seem pathological in a way that doesn’t feel organic or justified to me. 

I totally thought that Maurice (Callis) was a version of Bashir, too.  
 

And I admit it: I found the “I work in outer space” Voyage Home callback kind of cute. They’d better not go to that well many more times, but it was cute. 

Wish I could heart this post a million times.