S05.E11: The Family

[DanaK]

Quote

MONDAY, MARCH 21

10:01-11:00 p.m. - Plot TBA

 

[Annber03]

Shaun's interaction with that little girl was really sweet. As was the ending scene with him and Lea. 

I like Morgan's idea for the clinic. This whole thing of her wanting to make amends and change her ways a bit is interesting - I'd like to see what else she might be able to do going forward with this new outlook on life. I think it could open up some interesting possibilities for her going forward, personally and professionally. 

Also liked Lim calling out both Andrews and Glassman. They were all going in pretty hard on each other throughout the episode, really. But the ending with them all gathering for a drink, and working to repair their relationships, was good. 

[greekmom]

6 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Also liked Lim calling out both Andrews and Glassman. They were all going in pretty hard on each other throughout the episode, really. But the ending with them all gathering for a drink, and working to repair their relationships, was good. 

It's true that Andrews does like to take over other people's jobs when they are unjustly ousted. 

While I thought it was sweet that Shaun did the whole ring thing, comeon show. He's a doctor! At least have him buy some sort of real ring and not use a "placeholder".

I don't believe that Andrews actually believed that the death of that baby kept Satan up. Bet she slept pretty well regarless.

I thought either all of the family was going to make it or none will.

[SunnyBeBe]

I thought this was actually a pretty good episode.  What was the deal with Shaun starting the surgery on the girl before the supervisor arrived? Wasn’t that what got others in trouble?  He was told to keep her stable, but I didn’t realize he could actually start the procedure on his own. 
 

I’m glad the wedding is postponed.  
 

Good idea about the clinic, but do they realize how little Medicare pays on actual bills?  It’s shocking how small a percentage is covered.  
 

 

[amarante]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I thought this was actually a pretty good episode.  What was the deal with Shaun starting the surgery on the girl before the supervisor arrived? Wasn’t that what got others in trouble?  He was told to keep her stable, but I didn’t realize he could actually start the procedure on his own. 
 

I’m glad the wedding is postponed.  
 

Good idea about the clinic, but do they realize how little Medicare pays on actual bills?  It’s shocking how small a percentage is covered.  
 

 

Most health care providers - especially hospitals - make out well with Medicare because they fill beds. It is far more lucrative than treating uninsured or even underinsured with big deductibles. Medicare is reimbursed at a higher rate than Medicaid and some states still have chosen not to expand Medicaid so there are a lot of uninsured in certain states.

Gynecologists and pediatricians can survive without Medicare patients. 😂 My friend sees a very high end doctor who doesn't accept any Medicare but she is willing to pay for the visits but most doctors - especially in certain specialities - accept Medicare. One of the great things about Medicare (with a Medigap plan) is that there are no networks and no deductibles and no co-payments and you can see a doctor anywhere in the US and use any hospital. 

Edited March 22, 2022 by amarante

[thuganomics85]

Definitely feels like a weight has been taking off almost everyone's shoulders with Salen finally gone, but it makes sense that there will be some tension due to how everything went down.   Makes sense that both Lim and Glassman will be annoyed over Andrews trying to make himself come off like a hero even though he waited so long to do the right thing (and it just happened to be in a way so that he could benefit from it too.)  But I also liked they acknowledged other issues that would still be there like Glassman leaving like he did and pretty much leaving Lim (and the rest) in a lurch.  Hopefully that final scene is hinting at them starting to rebuild their relationships.  At least they can probably all agree on on thing: Salen is/was the worst!

Reznick takes some blowback over telling the patient the truth about the surgery, but might have already recovered by saving the clinic with her "take in more older patients and let Medicare cover it!" approach.  Realistically, I'm sure there are some inaccuracies there, but good for her, I guess.  And she even acknowledges that she might not be ready to lead the clinic yet and it sounds like Glassman might be in charge of it again.

I figured there was going to be no middle ground with this particular case, so either a) all of the family was going to live or b) they were all going to die!  So, once they officially saved the dad, I figured it would all work out.  The scenes with Shaun and the little girl were nice.

Probably the best episode this season so far.

[mojito]

I thought that we'd get an episode or two of raw feelings between the Big Three, but the drinks at the end was a nice touch.

I just don't much care about Shaun anymore.

[rmontro]

So the great evil Salen had no problem keeping the clinic open in a for profit hospital, but President Andrews can't keep it open in a non-profit hospital?  What's more, he didn't want any input from Dr. Glassman about how to keep it open, but then at the end of the episode he's open to listening to Morgan?  That sounds like all sorts of messed up.

I can believe Morgan and the others are haunted by their mistakes, but I kind of liked the approach House took to it better.  He told his residents "You WILL kill someone".  I guess he wanted to make sure they were strong enough to get past that when it happened.

[possibilities]

They lost one of their biggest contracts due to Reznik's behavior, and that was the excuse Andrews gave for abandoning the clinic. I think he didn't really want to save it, and that's why he didn't try. No idea why he listened to Resnik's idea, though. Plot convenience.

 

[Fable]

I have only half been paying attention to this show lately and was starting to check out.  Salen was an awful character and really not even a good villain.  I'm still bored, but I can say I did like this episode.  

[LadyIrony]

10 hours ago, mojito said:

I thought that we'd get an episode or two of raw feelings between the Big Three, but the drinks at the end was a nice touch.

I just don't much care about Shaun anymore.

I don't watch very often anymore. Shaun is a dead end as far as a character goes. He hasn't progressed at all socially and maybe that is the way it is in reality but this is a tv show. Seeing Shaun still fumble his way through everything isn't amusing anymore. It's just sad. And I don't believe for a second that a highly litigious society like America would allow someone like him so much contact with patients and other staff. He puts his foot in his mouth far too often.

[circumvent]

16 hours ago, amarante said:

Most health care providers - especially hospitals - make out well with Medicare because they fill beds. It is far more lucrative than treating uninsured or even underinsured with big deductibles. Medicare is reimbursed at a higher rate than Medicaid and some states still have chosen not to expand Medicaid so there are a lot of uninsured in certain states.

Gynecologists and pediatricians can survive without Medicare patients. 😂 My friend sees a very high end doctor who doesn't accept any Medicare but she is willing to pay for the visits but most doctors - especially in certain specialities - accept Medicare. One of the great things about Medicare (with a Medigap plan) is that there are no networks and no deductibles and no co-payments and you can see a doctor anywhere in the US and use any hospital. 

Right, there is one big obstacle though. People are being pushed to sign up for Medicare Advantage, which is basic an individual health plan, with some attractive benefits for seniors who are relatively healthy and live on a fixed, usually low, income. Medicare (Dis)Advantage is an HMO, so people cannot choose any doctor, anywhere. The denial rate when people need more extensive care is one of the highest. Even the government is playing the insurance companies game now (surprise! donors and lobbyists do their job) and opting people in Medicare (Dis)Advantage without informing them of the difference or how to choose straight up Medicare, the traditional one. It is a big scam 

 

1 hour ago, LadyIrony said:

I don't watch very often anymore. Shaun is a dead end as far as a character goes. He hasn't progressed at all socially and maybe that is the way it is in reality but this is a tv show. Seeing Shaun still fumble his way through everything isn't amusing anymore. It's just sad. And I don't believe for a second that a highly litigious society like America would allow someone like him so much contact with patients and other staff. He puts his foot in his mouth far too often.

I  agree, Shaun hasn't grown and when we see the character being able to work himself in a situation that was previously stressful for him, we see some absurd meltdown in the next episode that negates who he is and his personal journey. I am repeating myself, but the writers put all the autistic stereotypes in the character and it makes no sense that he would be such a genius and dealing with patients the way he does. Plus the outbursts are way overplayed, and he wouldn't last in a job like that, or he would need a job coach, which would then negate what the writes decided the character is. They cornered themselves, now they are making his lines a cutesy-funny thing, and infantilizing his to make it seem that every little thing he does outside his routine or outside his comfort zone is a huuuuuge step

Has anyone noticed that when Lim sits at her table with her coffee and eggs at the beginning of the episode, she has no forks of spoon to eat her food? None that i saw, at least.

[mojito]

Had not noticed.

[amarante]

5 hours ago, circumvent said:

Right, there is one big obstacle though. People are being pushed to sign up for Medicare Advantage, which is basic an individual health plan, with some attractive benefits for seniors who are relatively healthy and live on a fixed, usually low, income. Medicare (Dis)Advantage is an HMO, so people cannot choose any doctor, anywhere. The denial rate when people need more extensive care is one of the highest. Even the government is playing the insurance companies game now (surprise! donors and lobbyists do their job) and opting people in Medicare (Dis)Advantage without informing them of the difference or how to choose straight up Medicare, the traditional one. It is a big scam 

 

Actually Medicare Advantage is also a "scam" on the government because the amount the companies get each month from the Federal government for enrolling people costs the government more than traditional Medicare would - e.g. the HMO gets more money each money than it costs them to treat their enrollees and the government pays more to the Advantage company each month for each enrollee than it would cost them to pay for medical care.

Of course it is statistical since not every Medicare patient costs the same - typically there is a range since younger Medicare enrollees cost less because they are still relatively healthy and some Medicare enrollees die before they incur high costs at the end. This was true of my parents in microcosm. My mother died relatively young (at 80) before she had significant expensive medical issues. My father lived until he was 99 but it was only in the last two years of his life that he had frequent conditions that needed hospitalization and more expensive care. Neither had the Advantage plan although my father was theoretically able to use VA and so he used it for certain things like free hearing aids since hearing aids aren't covered by Medicare.

Advantage remains in place because it is financially profitable for the insurance companies who offer it as opposed to "straight" Medicare.

 

[circumvent]

9 minutes ago, amarante said:

Actually Medicare Advantage is also a "scam" on the government because the amount the companies get each month from the Federal government for enrolling people costs the government more than traditional Medicare would

Sorry if I didn't make my post clear. That's what I meant. I used the (Dis)Advantage as a snark, that's how Ralph Nader use it, I find it very appropriate. 

The scam is Medicare advantage, not traditional Medicare. 

The other scam is Medicare Part D, which is private as well

Edited March 23, 2022 by circumvent

[aemom]

Sometimes I think that our universal health care system is terrible (Canada), and then I realize that all the jumping through hoops that Americans have to do, and the money that they still have to pay, is just so much worse.  Sounds like an exhausting complicated puzzle that you have to solve, just to get health care.

I liked the way that Shaun used his relationship with the little girl to re-evaluate his situation with Lea and come up with a plan that they both felt more comfortable with.

It was realistic to see Glassman, Lim, and Andrews let each other have it, and then nice to finally see them begin to make peace at the end.

[circumvent]

1 hour ago, aemom said:

Sometimes I think that our universal health care system is terrible (Canada), and then I realize that all the jumping through hoops that Americans have to do, and the money that they still have to pay, is just so much worse.  Sounds like an exhausting complicated puzzle that you have to solve, just to get health care.

Let me just correct you on a few "small" details: Sounds (it is) like a complicated puzzle (scam) you have to (fight, try, struggle) to solve, just to (not always, rarely) get (some) health care

 

The kid actor who played the  girl was really good

1 hour ago, aemom said:

It was realistic to see Glassman, Lim, and Andrews let each other have it, and then nice to finally see them begin to make peace at the end.

I am convinced that very young people write these scripts because all those adults, middle aged/senior people, act like children bickering on who is *the best*. Annoying, to say the least

Edited March 23, 2022 by circumvent

[amarante]

1 hour ago, aemom said:

Sometimes I think that our universal health care system is terrible (Canada), and then I realize that all the jumping through hoops that Americans have to do, and the money that they still have to pay, is just so much worse.  Sounds like an exhausting complicated puzzle that you have to solve, just to get health care.

I liked the way that Shaun used his relationship with the little girl to re-evaluate his situation with Lea and come up with a plan that they both felt more comfortable with.

It was realistic to see Glassman, Lim, and Andrews let each other have it, and then nice to finally see them begin to make peace at the end.

The great joke played on the American people is that Medicare (traditional) is a single payer system which works really well for participants and is generally not difficult to navigate and enables you to access the best US medical care.

It is also less expensive per capita because the administrative costs of running Medicare are less than the administrative costs for private health insurance companies.

Medicare generally has the highest satisfaction level versus ANY private health insurance provider because there are no networks, no deductibles and no co-payments. 

But "single payer" health care has been demonized.

 

[possibilities]

In my view, the problem with the show is not that Shaun "hasn't progressed". It could be inherently interesting to watch an atypical person live their life, without having them change to become more "normal." 

The problem is that the show is not written well, so they make a mess of the characterization and fail miserably at the execution of this basically sound idea.

[circumvent]

2 hours ago, possibilities said:

In my view, the problem with the show is not that Shaun "hasn't progressed". It could be inherently interesting to watch an atypical person live their life, without having them change to become more "normal." 

That says it all - all that is wrong with the writing. They want Shaun to be the one that "learns from neurotypical people how to be a real person so he can succeed beyond his geniality in medicine"

[Driad]

I still think they should have started the series earlier in Shaun's life, college or medical school, when Shaun was having more problems than he does now.

I like the caps that Andrews wears in surgery; we can tell which one he is. I'd like it if one or two of the others wore distinctive caps, maybe a favorite color.

Why do the women have light blue trim on their scrubs?  I have never seen gender-distinctive scrubs in a hospital.  What would a non-binary doctor wear?  If the hospital buys scrubs that have different shaped tops for men and women, that could be indicated by labels.

[tennisgurl]

I feel like this show has already improved so much now that Salen is gone. Of course things are still awkward and Lim, Andrews, and Glassman all made some solid points as to their annoyance with each other. Andrews did wait until the last minute to swoop in and play hero to save the day, Glassman did leave them in a lurch and only came back when Shaun needed him, and Lim had to admit that even before Salen their hospital did have problems that needed solving. Things were rough, but everyone sitting there sharing a drink seems like a good step forward.

I figured that the girl and her family would make it, especially after Shaun bonded with her, I thought that was a nice story for him, their interactions were really cute. "Sorry about your brother. And your parents. And your baby." Yeah, it really does suck to be Shaun, always good to be reminded that his parents are the absolute worst. At least things are moving in a good direction with Lea, although it so often ends up being one step forward two steps back with them. 

Interesting seeing Morgan's new lease on life, which also has possibly led her to saving the hospital. That's why everyone should download a meditation app, it saves jobs and lives.

[LadyIrony]

14 hours ago, circumvent said:

I  agree, Shaun hasn't grown and when we see the character being able to work himself in a situation that was previously stressful for him, we see some absurd meltdown in the next episode that negates who he is and his personal journey. I am repeating myself, but the writers put all the autistic stereotypes in the character and it makes no sense that he would be such a genius and dealing with patients the way he does. Plus the outbursts are way overplayed, and he wouldn't last in a job like that, or he would need a job coach, which would then negate what the writes decided the character is. They cornered themselves, now they are making his lines a cutesy-funny thing, and infantilizing his to make it seem that every little thing he does outside his routine or outside his comfort zone is a huuuuuge step

Has anyone noticed that when Lim sits at her table with her coffee and eggs at the beginning of the episode, she has no forks of spoon to eat her food? None that i saw, at least.

The way they have infantilized him also makes it very cringe inducing when it comes to his sex life. I feel like the women he has been involved with are abusing him! He may be a genius medically but socially and romantically he is a dunce. 

I agree they have cornered themselves and like a lot of TV shows it would have been better off only running 3 seasons at most. They can't have him improve his social understanding as that negates the purpose of the character and the show. But to not have any improvement at all is also a joke. 

I feel like the show is a serious enough Medical drama until Shaun appears than it becomes a parody. 

6 hours ago, possibilities said:

In my view, the problem with the show is not that Shaun "hasn't progressed". It could be inherently interesting to watch an atypical person live their life, without having them change to become more "normal." 

The problem is that the show is not written well, so they make a mess of the characterization and fail miserably at the execution of this basically sound idea.

It could be interesting but sadly it isn't. Shaun is working in a very serious and professional, not to mention competitive field. He is also trying to have a romantic life with someone who is "normal" not to mention working with "normal" people. Like it or not, he has to learn to play by their rules and he just struggles. It's like he doesn't learn anything. 

It is poorly written and the actor who plays Shaun, using that robotic voice is just a massive fail. 

I don't understand how Leah tolerates him. 

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, LadyIrony said:

The way they have infantilized him also makes it very cringe inducing when it comes to his sex life. I feel like the women he has been involved with are abusing him! He may be a genius medically but socially and romantically he is a dunce. 

I agree they have cornered themselves and like a lot of TV shows it would have been better off only running 3 seasons at most. They can't have him improve his social understanding as that negates the purpose of the character and the show. But to not have any improvement at all is also a joke. 

I feel like the show is a serious enough Medical drama until Shaun appears than it becomes a parody. 

It could be interesting but sadly it isn't. Shaun is working in a very serious and professional, not to mention competitive field. He is also trying to have a romantic life with someone who is "normal" not to mention working with "normal" people. Like it or not, he has to learn to play by their rules and he just struggles. It's like he doesn't learn anything. 

It is poorly written and the actor who plays Shaun, using that robotic voice is just a massive fail. 

I don't understand how Leah tolerates him. 

I agree about the show infantilizing Shaun.  They showed some growth back when he was dating his ex girlfriend, but it seems to have stalled.  They wrote Leah as the woman who has to steal him from his former girlfriend….where did she go?  The way Leah talks to him, coddles him, relates in general, seems like a mother and a son. I find it creepy.  She is so wild about a marriage with Shaun, but it looks like she’s raising a young man, not in an equal relationship.  Of course, perhaps that’s the story they want to tell.  
 

 

[Virtual]

Interesting that one of the first things the episode showed was the Ethicure logo mostly wiped away on the hospital building, like I predicted they would be fast to do. 🤣

Morgan became a character I liked quite a while ago, which is saying something since I didn’t like her much when she first showed up. I can relate to her self-improvement by helping others.

I liked how Lim called out Glassman and Andrews for how they handled things during Salen’s leadership. Andrews made a huge mistake trusting Salen to do what’s right; she is very manipulative with her words. And while I understand Glassman needing time to himself, he WAS still president of the hospital before Salen bought it. So it’s true that Lim and the others looked at him as a leader.

[bros402]

I don't usually like "Main character gets stuck with kid because reason" episodes - but this one was decent.

 

On 3/22/2022 at 7:09 AM, greekmom said:

It's true that Andrews does like to take over other people's jobs when they are unjustly ousted. 

While I thought it was sweet that Shaun did the whole ring thing, comeon show. He's a doctor! At least have him buy some sort of real ring and not use a "placeholder".

To be fair, Shaun is a resident - Residents make around 110k in California and let's assume Lea makes 97k a year - so they make 200k a year. Honestly, when I started typing this sentence, I expected Shaun's salary to be much less. However, their apartment looks like a good size - looking at google, San Jose has the second highest rent in the country on average, with a two bedroom house costing around 3k a month. So before utilities or anything, that's 36k a year for rent. He should definitely have some savings - but maybe he doesn't want to buy a ring without Lean picking one out?

11 hours ago, possibilities said:

In my view, the problem with the show is not that Shaun "hasn't progressed". It could be inherently interesting to watch an atypical person live their life, without having them change to become more "normal." 

The problem is that the show is not written well, so they make a mess of the characterization and fail miserably at the execution of this basically sound idea.

Yuuup, the show sucks at writing autism

8 hours ago, Driad said:

I still think they should have started the series earlier in Shaun's life, college or medical school, when Shaun was having more problems than he does now.

I like the caps that Andrews wears in surgery; we can tell which one he is. I'd like it if one or two of the others wore distinctive caps, maybe a favorite color.

Why do the women have light blue trim on their scrubs?  I have never seen gender-distinctive scrubs in a hospital.  What would a non-binary doctor wear?  If the hospital buys scrubs that have different shaped tops for men and women, that could be indicated by labels.

It definitely would have been better if they had started even a bit earlier - looking at google, med school students start to see patients in year 3 (out of 4) in med school. They could've started then and show Shaun improving over time.

Or, I will keep beating this dead horse: see a therapist and try to address some of his issues. He clearly has anxiety and that can be addressed. He needs healthier ways to manage when he gets overstimulated.

[LadyIrony]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I agree about the show infantilizing Shaun.  They showed some growth back when he was dating his ex girlfriend, but it seems to have stalled.  They wrote Leah as the woman who has to steal him from his former girlfriend….where did she go?  The way Leah talks to him, coddles him, relates in general, seems like a mother and a son. I find it creepy.  She is so wild about a marriage with Shaun, but it looks like she’s raising a young man, not in an equal relationship.  Of course, perhaps that’s the story they want to tell.  
 

 

I can't recall her name but if we are talking about the same woman, she actually challenged Shaun and treated him like an adult. I do agree that Leah treats him like a son she is raising/grooming. It feels creepy and I am sure if Shaun was  a "Shauna" they would not be going there. 

Leah also looks a lot older than Shaun which adds to the overall image. 

1 hour ago, bros402 said:

It definitely would have been better if they had started even a bit earlier - looking at google, med school students start to see patients in year 3 (out of 4) in med school. They could've started then and show Shaun improving over time.

Or, I will keep beating this dead horse: see a therapist and try to address some of his issues. He clearly has anxiety and that can be addressed. He needs healthier ways to manage when he gets overstimulated.

He has his friend Dr Aaron but I don't think Shaun has anyone who really challenges him. They are either scared of him or can't be bothered so just humour him or they infantilize him. 

A proper therapist would be interesting. Someone who makes him question himself and perhaps makes him think a little before going into outburst mode. 

Edited March 24, 2022 by LadyIrony

[circumvent]

Here is some important information about Medicare and how things (do not) work in this messed up health "care" system. 

If you have or are about to get Medicare, you should really read this. It means less or no care when you need it (surprised?)

https://www.levernews.com/seniors-medicare-benefits-are-being-privatized-without-consent/

[Driad]

On 3/22/2022 at 7:09 AM, greekmom said:

While I thought it was sweet that Shaun did the whole ring thing, comeon show. He's a doctor! At least have him buy some sort of real ring and not use a "placeholder".

The "standard" thing on TV is for the man to buy an expensive ring without consulting his fiancee.  But in real life, maybe it doesn't fit, or she doesn't like the style, or she would prefer to spend the money on something else instead.  A placeholder makes sense to me, until they can decide what they really want.

[cinsays]

10 minutes ago, Driad said:

The "standard" thing on TV is for the man to buy an expensive ring without consulting his fiancee.  But in real life, maybe it doesn't fit, or she doesn't like the style, or she would prefer to spend the money on something else instead.  A placeholder makes sense to me, until they can decide what they really want.

But, didn't he just propose with the placeholder ring just to tie in with the little girl in the hospital in a cutesy way? That's how i took it, nothing to do with his salary or savings.

[SunnyBeBe]

2 hours ago, cinsays said:

But, didn't he just propose with the placeholder ring just to tie in with the little girl in the hospital in a cutesy way? That's how i took it, nothing to do with his salary or savings.

I think so.  Sort of like, it’s the thought that counts. But, since they don’t intend to set a date……whatever.  Shaun is too immature for marriage, based on how he’s portrayed.  Oh, perhaps, calling off the wedding was a mature decision…..hmmmmm…….

[LadyIrony]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I think so.  Sort of like, it’s the thought that counts. But, since they don’t intend to set a date……whatever.  Shaun is too immature for marriage, based on how he’s portrayed.  Oh, perhaps, calling off the wedding was a mature decision…..hmmmmm…….

Mature enough to know he's immature? I get the sense Leah is secretly relieved! 

[SunnyBeBe]

Just now, LadyIrony said:

Mature enough to know he's immature? I get the sense Leah is secretly relieved! 

Mature enough to recognize that he and Leah getting married is probably not a good idea.  Their dynamic is so odd.  How will they make that work?  Idk.

[LadyIrony]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Mature enough to recognize that he and Leah getting married is probably not a good idea.  Their dynamic is so odd.  How will they make that work?  Idk.

Shaun is also very untrusting and unforgiving. Leah has gone hot and cold on him in the past. 
 

I think he knows that relationships and love aren’t games he is good at and so is cautious about it all. 
 

I can’t see how it would work either. Leah has always been a party type girl and Shaun is really regimented. It would be sad for her to go along with it have a baby then divorce him a few years later. 

It would be painful to watch him have to understand divorce and visitation rights etc He has flipped out over a lot less. 
 

[SunnyBeBe]

How old is the character Shaun?

[LadyIrony]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

How old is the character Shaun?

According to this page he is 29 https://hero.fandom.com/wiki/Shaun_Murphy#:~:text=in Burnt Food.-,Dr.,who has high-functioning autism.

I couldn't find an age for Leia but the actress who plays her is 2 years older (32) than the actor who plays Shaun. 

 

[possibilities]

I thought the placeholder ring was because he wanted to give her something right away, and didn't go shopping for a fancy ring. Also, the fancy ring implies some kind of pressure, I think. I thought making a sentimental but inexpensive gesture was a very astute choice, to indicate his seriousness of commitment without violating Leah's desire to take it easy. 

Also, who knows how much debt he has from medical school? They were spending a lot of money on the wedding plans they just cancelled, so it's not like they're not spending anything, but money isn't the only thing that matters and some people think expensive rings are a materialistic bunch of BS, anyway.

Edited March 24, 2022 by possibilities

[SunnyBeBe]

Have I posted lately how much my dad’s doctor resembles Shaun?  It’s bizarre. There used to be a photo  of him online that was crazy Shaun-like.  He changed it about a year ago, and the recent one isn’t as similar.  I was very annoying and mentioned it every time I saw the doctor.   Lol. He said he never watched the show. 
 

I did think Shaun some restraint when dealing with the little girl.  He was honest, but still held back from some of his abruptness.  

Edited March 24, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[bros402]

21 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

He has his friend Dr Aaron but I don't think Shaun has anyone who really challenges him. They are either scared of him or can't be bothered so just humour him or they infantilize him. 

A proper therapist would be interesting. Someone who makes him question himself and perhaps makes him think a little before going into outburst mode. 

Dr. Glassman is more of a parental/mentor figure, since he has been in Shaun's life since his teens (or maybe a bit younger?). Exactly - Shaun needs someone who treats him like they would anyone else. An autistic person is still a person - if we don't get some signal, just ask if we get it. Preferably in private.

Shaun having a proper therapist would be great - it won't make his autism "better" or anything like that, but it could help him get some introspection. It won't make his meltdowns stop, but it could make them fewer and far between, and give him the skills he needs to express himself before he has a meltdown (I'm 31, I am autistic, and I will admit that I have meltdowns from time to time. Sometimes they come suddenly and I just can't stop them, but I can look back and.... analyze them, try to figure out what happened and why it happened and see if there is a way to adjust things in the future to reduce it or try to.. extricate myself from the situation to try to stop below the pot boils over). Shaun seemingly lacks the ability to look within and even try to figure out how his actions might be affecting people.

I have a feeling that if they were to have a proper therapist, they'd be painted as bad if they tried to challenge Shaun. 

[LadyIrony]

4 hours ago, bros402 said:

Dr. Glassman is more of a parental/mentor figure, since he has been in Shaun's life since his teens (or maybe a bit younger?). Exactly - Shaun needs someone who treats him like they would anyone else. An autistic person is still a person - if we don't get some signal, just ask if we get it. Preferably in private.

Shaun having a proper therapist would be great - it won't make his autism "better" or anything like that, but it could help him get some introspection. It won't make his meltdowns stop, but it could make them fewer and far between, and give him the skills he needs to express himself before he has a meltdown (I'm 31, I am autistic, and I will admit that I have meltdowns from time to time. Sometimes they come suddenly and I just can't stop them, but I can look back and.... analyze them, try to figure out what happened and why it happened and see if there is a way to adjust things in the future to reduce it or try to.. extricate myself from the situation to try to stop below the pot boils over). Shaun seemingly lacks the ability to look within and even try to figure out how his actions might be affecting people.

I have a feeling that if they were to have a proper therapist, they'd be painted as bad if they tried to challenge Shaun. 

A fun crossover would be for Shaun to meet Dr House from the old House series. That would be a fascinating thing to watch and given both are very blunt I think they would get along. 

A therapist (or similar) who is a tough love type who just lays it on the line. And yes I agree Shaun doesn't consider how his actions and words affect others. It isn't always because he has said something outright rude or offensive, sometimes he is just inappropriate. Speaking too freely etc especially when he was discovering sex. 

And that is part of the problem too. It's like he has just landed on Earth and learning our ways. Yet he got through school and then med school etc He is just too naive for someone who has accomplished what he has. 

Sadly I think you are right there as well, someone who seriously challenges him would be seen as PC Incorrect. 

[bros402]

19 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

A fun crossover would be for Shaun to meet Dr House from the old House series. That would be a fascinating thing to watch and given both are very blunt I think they would get along. 

A therapist (or similar) who is a tough love type who just lays it on the line. And yes I agree Shaun doesn't consider how his actions and words affect others. It isn't always because he has said something outright rude or offensive, sometimes he is just inappropriate. Speaking too freely etc especially when he was discovering sex. 

And that is part of the problem too. It's like he has just landed on Earth and learning our ways. Yet he got through school and then med school etc He is just too naive for someone who has accomplished what he has. 

Sadly I think you are right there as well, someone who seriously challenges him would be seen as PC Incorrect. 

I think even if they had a therapist who specializes in autism it might be seen as bad by some

tbh it might be cool if they got an autistic actor to be a therapist - that could be good. I only know of two off of the top of my head, though - Lillian Carrier and Kayla Cromer - both were on Everything's Gonna Be Okay (They played Drea and Matilda, respectively). Even if they just had Shaun attend a social skills group to try to put on a better mask at work that'd be good. Since yeah, you shouldn't have to wear a mask (autism, not face) 24/7, but as a doctor Shaun needs to wear one. 

[izabella]

11 hours ago, bros402 said:

Even if they just had Shaun attend a social skills group to try to put on a better mask at work that'd be good. Since yeah, you shouldn't have to wear a mask (autism, not face) 24/7, but as a doctor Shaun needs to wear one. 

Most people wear a mask at work.  Only on tv do people reveal everything about themselves and get all up in each other's business at work, with patients or customers.

I wish they would explore Sean's reluctance to find an experienced therapist, or even to meet other people with autism.  At least join an online forum, Sean!  Maybe others' perspectives and experiences could make him feel more comfortable with his own experiences and struggles.  After all this time, it's almost coming off as though he is prejudiced or bigoted himself about people with autism.  Maybe that would be something interesting to explore.

Edited March 26, 2022 by izabella

[LadyIrony]

18 hours ago, bros402 said:

I think even if they had a therapist who specializes in autism it might be seen as bad by some

tbh it might be cool if they got an autistic actor to be a therapist - that could be good. I only know of two off of the top of my head, though - Lillian Carrier and Kayla Cromer - both were on Everything's Gonna Be Okay (They played Drea and Matilda, respectively). Even if they just had Shaun attend a social skills group to try to put on a better mask at work that'd be good. Since yeah, you shouldn't have to wear a mask (autism, not face) 24/7, but as a doctor Shaun needs to wear one. 

It would be seen as mocking autism. Which in a way the show kind of does. Shaun is usually shown as a buffoon. Putting his foot in his mouth wanting to discuss sex with his colleagues, having outbursts etc

Having actual autistic actors play opposite him would also show up how badly the actor (and writers) do at portraying autism.

He needs to wear a mask it's like anyone else. His colleagues don't need to know he had sex last night, something which applies to anyone in a workplace. And his patients shouldn't have to wonder what his problem is either. 

A social skills group would be good but I feel like Shaun thinks he does fine and would just have outbursts. I see why he would, he would claim that he is most likely the only Doctor in the group and also in a relationship with a typical person. The writers have made him a Mary Sue, can do anything one moment but a complete Damsel in Distress the next.

7 hours ago, izabella said:

Most people wear a mask at work.  Only on tv do people reveal everything about themselves and get all up in each other's business at work, with patients or customers.

I wish they would explore Sean's reluctance to find an experienced therapist, or even to meet other people with autism.  At least join an online forum, Sean!  Maybe others' perspectives and experiences could make him feel more comfortable with his own experiences and struggles.  After all this time, it's almost coming off as though he is prejudiced or bigoted himself about people with autism.  Maybe that would be something interesting to explore.

I think Shaun sees himself as better/different than others who have autism. He works and lives in the typical world and he probably thinks he is doing an amazing job at dealing with it. 

It would be interesting to see him talk to other autistic people but I also get the impression the writers are bored with him and would prefer to focus on the other characters. Sometimes Shaun is a side character in his own show.

[bros402]

5 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

It would be seen as mocking autism. Which in a way the show kind of does. Shaun is usually shown as a buffoon. Putting his foot in his mouth wanting to discuss sex with his colleagues, having outbursts etc

Having actual autistic actors play opposite him would also show up how badly the actor (and writers) do at portraying autism.

He needs to wear a mask it's like anyone else. His colleagues don't need to know he had sex last night, something which applies to anyone in a workplace. And his patients shouldn't have to wonder what his problem is either. 

A social skills group would be good but I feel like Shaun thinks he does fine and would just have outbursts. I see why he would, he would claim that he is most likely the only Doctor in the group and also in a relationship with a typical person. The writers have made him a Mary Sue, can do anything one moment but a complete Damsel in Distress the next.

I think Shaun sees himself as better/different than others who have autism. He works and lives in the typical world and he probably thinks he is doing an amazing job at dealing with it. 

It would be interesting to see him talk to other autistic people but I also get the impression the writers are bored with him and would prefer to focus on the other characters. Sometimes Shaun is a side character in his own show.

Oh yes, the show already messes up autism so badly. I would actually like if they brought in autistic actors to show how much Freddie Highmore/the writers are... doing autism and autistic people a disservice. 

Do neurotypical people wear masks? I thought that was more of an autistic thing, since masks (not face masks) are tiring.

Shaun is very holier-than-thou, when he really needs help - like how he carried around the plastic scalpel his brother gave him.

At least him being a side character means we see less mocking of autism.

[KaveDweller]

On 3/26/2022 at 11:54 AM, izabella said:

Most people wear a mask at work.  Only on tv do people reveal everything about themselves and get all up in each other's business at work, with patients or customers.

I wish they would explore Sean's reluctance to find an experienced therapist, or even to meet other people with autism.  At least join an online forum, Sean!  Maybe others' perspectives and experiences could make him feel more comfortable with his own experiences and struggles.  After all this time, it's almost coming off as though he is prejudiced or bigoted himself about people with autism.  Maybe that would be something interesting to explore.

Also, if Shaun had a therapist or was in a support group, he would not have to keep asking his colleagues inappropriate personal questions at work.

[circumvent]

20 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

Having actual autistic actors play opposite him would also show up how badly the actor (and writers) do at portraying autism.

Right?

It would also make any autistic actor very frustrated because they would have a contract that makes them just act on whatever script they were given, without any input - I am speculation that the writers are not very good at listening because someone MIGHT have told them that what they are doing is awful. 

The writers and show runners are very happy building on the old, old stereotypes about autism and patting themselves on the back because they made Shun into a walking and talking bundle of stereotypes, an autistic person who does not, cannot exist in such form in real life. They don't want to deal with a sliver of reality and they certainly don't want to deal with autistic actors that would be the reality right in front of them - unless they can find actors that are assholes and will do anything for their 15 minutes. Yeah, autistic people are people, therefore autistic assholes exist. One of those sell-outs has even defended a white supremacist's decision to shoot and murder people.

[LadyIrony]

15 hours ago, bros402 said:

Oh yes, the show already messes up autism so badly. I would actually like if they brought in autistic actors to show how much Freddie Highmore/the writers are... doing autism and autistic people a disservice. 

Do neurotypical people wear masks? I thought that was more of an autistic thing, since masks (not face masks) are tiring.

Shaun is very holier-than-thou, when he really needs help - like how he carried around the plastic scalpel his brother gave him.

At least him being a side character means we see less mocking of autism.

Oh yes typical people wear masks especially at work. In fact there is nothing worse than people who just have to blurt out every thought they have, every emotion, every action they are thinking of taking. And that is how Shaun is, really annoying. 

From what you are saying Autistic people wear masks and Shaun does not yet he is meant to be autistic? So that does not add up, another huge oversight or perhaps an intentional oversight by the writers and actor. 

I think it could be a decent show without Shaun to be honest.

 

28 minutes ago, circumvent said:

Right?

It would also make any autistic actor very frustrated because they would have a contract that makes them just act on whatever script they were given, without any input - I am speculation that the writers are not very good at listening because someone MIGHT have told them that what they are doing is awful. 

The writers and show runners are very happy building on the old, old stereotypes about autism and patting themselves on the back because they made Shun into a walking and talking bundle of stereotypes, an autistic person who does not, cannot exist in such form in real life. They don't want to deal with a sliver of reality and they certainly don't want to deal with autistic actors that would be the reality right in front of them - unless they can find actors that are assholes and will do anything for their 15 minutes. Yeah, autistic people are people, therefore autistic assholes exist. One of those sell-outs has even defended a white supremacist's decision to shoot and murder people.

For sure. I think that would be the reason why they went for a "neurotypical" actor to begin with. The show has always come off as a comedy to me. I don't think this show was ever intended as a serious medical drama. 

I think like a lot of shows it would have been better off with 3 seasons tops. The way it stands they can't have Shaun progress at all because then he loses what they see as his autistic characteristics and the whole point of the show is gone. 

As someone else mentioned previously, any successes he has are dialed back by the next episode. 

[WinJet0819]

While there are different stages of autism, Shaun hasn't seemed to have improve his demeanor on this throughout the tenure of this show. Yes, he has been more confident in trying new things and he's learned to trust those around him. But yet, he's still rigid most of the time, and still has not understood how to be tactful and to be able read the emotions of a room. There's also the fact that he still has the creepy smile when he makes a diagnosis or determines a patient needs surgery. That patient review that Lea deleted was dead on. You would think, after 5 years in this environment, he would have grown to be just a bit more relaxed. There are numerous people with autism that still show ,at least, some semblance of comfort. Shaun continues to seem more like a human robot.

As others have said, he does need some kind of counselor. He is prone to have breakdowns when everything is not just perfect. A therapist would help him get some perspective, and help him understand that it's OK if stuff goes wrong. 

And when he saved the girl at the end, why did he seem so relieved to let Andrews finish? He's a fifth year resident, and you'd think this surgery should be something he'd be able to finish up, especially since he already did the hard part.

And speaking of Andrews, this show really needs to add 1-or-2 attendings. Apparently, all 3 available attendings (in this show's universe) get tied up on one surgery. It's bad enough that specialities seem to have disappeared, and that they've pushed the myth that surgeons do everything. But, at this point, it's almost comical, how stretched thin they make this hospital seem to be. And it makes formula of the show almost predictable. Andrews will have one surgical case with a couple of residents. And Lim will have one surgical case with a couple of residents.

 

[bros402]

5 hours ago, LadyIrony said:

Oh yes typical people wear masks especially at work. In fact there is nothing worse than people who just have to blurt out every thought they have, every emotion, every action they are thinking of taking. And that is how Shaun is, really annoying. 

From what you are saying Autistic people wear masks and Shaun does not yet he is meant to be autistic? So that does not add up, another huge oversight or perhaps an intentional oversight by the writers and actor. 

I think it could be a decent show without Shaun to be honest.

Yeah, Shaun doesn't seem to wear a mask since he just blurts it all out. Like I know with me, I don't understnad a lot of the stuff, so I just err on the side of caution and copy the people who seem to be behaving in the most neutral way

Yeah, if Shaun left the show, it'd still be good. Especially if they replaced him with an autistic actor who had input/was a producer or writer

Edited March 28, 2022 by bros402

[possibilities]

The thing I wondered about was what happened to the people in the other car in the accident. They mentioned when the family first came in that the other car's occupants were also arriving, but we never saw anything about what kind of shape they were in.