S23.E13: If I Knew Then What I Know Now

[WendyCR72]

Airs February 24, 2022:

Quote

A young woman learning about her birth parents asks Benson for help. Carisi and Rollins weigh the risks of taking their relationship public.

 

[Xeliou66]

This episode does not sound promising - from the synopsis it sounds like a “Benson saves the day with a side of Rollins drama” episode, and that is my least favorite type of episode. I’m mostly curious as to whether they trash the DA’s office in this one, since the Mothership returns the same night and we know Jack is DA.

When will we get a Fin centric episode? He’s barely been onscreen in half the episodes. Or even a Velasco centric episode? I’m so sick of how everything revolves around the super mommies. While the last couple of episodes have been better than what we got in the first half of the season, I still have no confidence in this show to improve.

[CrystalBlue]

St. Olivia comes to the rescue and Rollisi happens in public.  Sounds interesting boring.  

[SuzieQ]

So Carisi is Rollin's kid's father?  I thought her kids were fathered by Declan and the d-bag doctor?  Or are they doing a convenient history rewrite?

[WendyCR72]

3 minutes ago, SuzieQ said:

So Carisi is Rollin's kid's father?  I thought her kids were fathered by Declan and the d-bag doctor?  Or are they doing a convenient history rewrite?

Carisi is not the father to either. You have the fathers correct. Maybe it's sort of the stepdaddy equivalent, which is nauseating in and of itself.

(Sorry, but I just don't like the pairing, probably because I don't like Rollins.)

[SuzieQ]

1 minute ago, WendyCR72 said:

Carisi is not the father to either. You have the fathers correct. Maybe it's sort of the stepdaddy equivalent, which is nauseating in and of itself.

(Sorry, but I just don't like the pairing, probably because I don't like Rollins.)

Thank you!!  I half watch sometimes, but I think I would have remembered that, lol.

I don't like them together either and in real life, he would never be involved with her.  He's old school and she's not the one you take home to meet the family.  

 

 

[wknt3]

The Good:
Khaldun. He was likable and professional and I enjoy the character.
Finally a d-bag perp realizes the obvious set up and just comes out and calls BS.
They didn't magically get a full confession and conviction through sheer force of moral righteousness so at least there was some sense of realism and nuance/

The Bad:
Benson. Did you know she's a child of rape? And has empathy? No? Would it help if we repeated it over and over again? Doesn't matter we're going to anyway.
Rollisi, Somehow it managed to be soapy and boring at the same time. And it made me want to see less Carisi which takes some doing. I
Benson. Did you know she's a child of rape? And has empathy? No? Would it help if we repeated it over and over again? Doesn't matter we're going to anyway.
No Fin and Velasco. We really could have used a break from the Benson and Rollins Hour.
Benson. Did you know she's a child of rape? And has empathy? No? Would it help if we repeated it over and over again? Doesn't matter we're going to anyway.
They take the lead in of the mothership revival and instead of building on the momentum they've been developing they decide to show off all of the worst tendencies of late period SVU and give us an episode without Ice-T, the one actor besides MH who might draw in lapsed casual viewers? WTF?
Benson. Did you know she's a child of rape? And has empathy? No? Would it help if we repeated it over and over again? Doesn't matter we're going to anyway.

Overall this was a complete dud. It would be one note, but there was the Rollisi subplot so it was more like one and half notes, both off key. I honestly can't believe they thought airing this episode for their return from hiatus and following up the revival's premiere was a good, or even acceptable, idea. What a disappointment and a waste of all the good work they've done this season. I don't think even Mariska making earnest constipated faces and whispering encouraging affirmations can ease the pain and violation I feel.

[SuzieQ]

I wonder if no Finn because he's doing so many commercials?!?  I swear, it's like he's in every one I see lately!

[WendyCR72]

5 minutes ago, SuzieQ said:

I wonder if no Finn because he's doing so many commercials?!?  I swear, it's like he's in every one I see lately!

Or the budget has been slashed so much that the characters must pop in and out.

[wknt3]

18 minutes ago, SuzieQ said:

I wonder if no Finn because he's doing so many commercials?!?  I swear, it's like he's in every one I see lately!

 

12 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Or the budget has been slashed so much that the characters must pop in and out.

Yeah I'm sure it's a matter of bdugets and ice-T taking his raises in time off instead of cash as we've talked about before. That said his last CarShield spot did have a much stronger script than this episode so maybe there was an element of choice...

[Ms Blue Jay]

First few minutes , Carisi cooking in a Henley???????   Yaaaaaaaaaaa more of that please.....

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, WendyCR72 said:

(Sorry, but I just don't like the pairing, probably because I don't like Rollins.)

SAME

[Xeliou66]

This was duller than dirt. A boring case that I didn’t care one iota about plus a side does of Carisi/Rollins drama. It nearly put me to sleep.

No Fin and no Velasco sucked. Those 2 characters are way more interesting than the super mommies. Way too much Benson and Rollins, they beat us over the head with the “Benson is a child of rape” stuff that they’ve beaten the viewers over the head with for years.

The case was beyond dull, I didn’t care at all about it and there was no way anyone was going to jail for it, at least they didn’t pull a magical ending out of their anus. But I didn’t care at all about all of the family drama, it felt more like a family soap opera than a crime investigation.

Don’t give a shit about Carisi/Rollins, I hate the pairing.

Only positive things I can say is that it was nice to see Khaldun pop up, I like having a recurring detective like him assist from time to time, and they didn’t trash the DA’s office or make any snide remarks about the “8th floor” and the boss we saw was actually supportive of Carisi, even if it was because of something personal. Hopefully this is a sign that the trashing of the DA’s office is over.

This was just a dull, filler episode. A lifeless snooze fest. At least they didn’t do anything overly stupid, but it was beyond boring.

[Frisky Wig]

That 18-year-old adoptee was really annoying. What did they say she was, pink clouding? 

[Cloud9Shopper]

I like the Rollisi relationship and the domestic scenes, but God, Amanda is in her 30s at least and has two kids. It’s time to grow up and not hide your relationship that you’ve been in for almost a year. I hate childish storylines from characters who should have more maturity than she’s showing. Like at some point it stops being cutesy. (I know a lot of the fandom tends to be like tee hee Olivia doesn’t know yet like we’re still in high school.) 

[EtheltoTillie]

Why wasn’t that a statutory rape case? She was only 15. He was 19.  Not sure if that four year Romeo and Juliet law would apply. 

[meatball77]

All I could think during this entire case was there is no way that any cop wouldn't just send her back out of the door with her story. 

The teenager was annoying, very GenZ social justice warrior for other people without even thinking about how it effects them.

 

[Route66]

7 hours ago, Frisky Wig said:

That 18-year-old adoptee was really annoying. What did they say she was, pink clouding? 

That was such a weird phrase to use. I've only heard it in addiction recovery to indicate the early stages of drug abstinence where you feel physically healthy and proud of being clean but you haven't yet hit any difficult challenges.

[Zoe]

3 minutes ago, Route66 said:

That was such a weird phrase to use. I've only heard it in addiction recovery to indicate the early stages of drug abstinence where you feel physically healthy and proud of being clean but you haven't yet hit any difficult challenges.

They've definitely used it on this show before in reference to the victims. 

[TV Diva Queen]

Wasn’t the actress who played the birth mom the same actress who killed her baby and put it in a cooler?  The opening scene was her in a bodega on Halloween and she was buying diapers or something?  I get they cast actors in different roles, but I couldn’t get past her other role. 

[nittany cougar]

11 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

First few minutes , Carisi cooking in a Henley???????   Yaaaaaaaaaaa more of that please.....

Agree, this is one of the main reasons to watch the show.

2 hours ago, meatball77 said:

All I could think during this entire case was there is no way that any cop wouldn't just send her back out of the door with her story. 

The teenager was annoying, very GenZ social justice warrior for other people without even thinking about how it effects them.

That was so stupid. It is completely unbelievable that New York SVU has nothing better to do than chase down a rape case based on a word of mouth complaint from a relative.  They would have told her to have Michelle come to the station to report the assault. 

And then, of course Benson has to get on her soapbox about her "child of rape" trauma and act all pissy and aggrieved.  I'm really over her shit.

This also gave us another retcon of the horrible mother, Serena, as we learned that Serena told 15-year-old Benson that she wished she was never born.  Never mind that Serena was portrayed as a loving mother in Season 1.  She just gets more and more monstrous every time they talk about her.

I dIdn't get why Rollins' kid doesn't know her dad.  Rollins never introduced Jessie to her father or at least talked to her about who her father was?  I am not a Rollins fan either because she never owns her train wreck behavior. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I like the Rollisi relationship and the domestic scenes, but God, Amanda is in her 30s at least and has two kids. It’s time to grow up and not hide your relationship that you’ve been in for almost a year. I hate childish storylines from characters who should have more maturity than she’s showing. Like at some point it stops being cutesy. (I know a lot of the fandom tends to be like tee hee Olivia doesn’t know yet like we’re still in high school.) 

This is going to sound so mean but I thought Kelli Giddish was like 50.  Only because she's had soooooooooo much plastic surgery.  (She's 41).  I'm sorry but it's very very distracting.  

[TD3000]

Three refreshing things:

1. They didn't go with the obvious "swerve" and make the old friend or his brother the father.

2. The bio father didn't fall for the wire in the diner, a rarity on SVU.

3. Considering how keyed up the teenage girl was, it was surprising to see SVU not go for the shock ending and kill herself or someone else (as someone elsewhere pointed out, earlier-seasons SVU definitely would have).

[Ms Blue Jay]

All good points.  

[Route66]

2 hours ago, nittany cougar said:

 

And then, of course Benson has to get on her soapbox about her "child of rape" trauma and act all pissy and aggrieved.  I'm really over her shit.

Their experiences would have been entirely different. Liv was raised knowing she was a child of rape. Her mother was an abusive alcoholic. Ashley wasn't raised by a mother who was raped and didn't learn she was a product of it until she was an adult. It didn't shape who she was at all.

[Frisky Wig]

6 hours ago, meatball77 said:
The teenager was annoying, very GenZ social justice warrior for other people without even thinking about how it effects them.

 

Yeah, that, and she was so… I’m searching for the right adjectives… overly peppy, perky, giggly, aggressively in-your-face cheerful. 

[tennisgurl]

I cant believe that the show took the hype for the return of the mothership and decided on this boring episode to try and hook some nostalgic fans who might come back to the show. What a tedious episode, a string of many of my least favorite SVU tropes. Boring speeches, Olivia's terrible "victim whisperer" voice, Rollins personal drama, Olivia taking it personally, it was just so boring. No twist, no interesting guest characters, the only thing that surprised me was that the older brother who's family owned the house had nothing to do with it, the case itself was uninteresting and so was the surrounding family drama. 

The guest cast was decent, although the adopted daughter was really annoying. Her going to the cops about her newly found bio moms rape seemed like a crappy thing to do, it felt like this was less about getting justice for her bio mom and more about making herself feel better about the awful circumstances of her birth and to feel like a hero. It felt selfish and presumptuous for her and the squad to keep trying to force this woman to deal with this terribly traumatic thing that happened to her because it tied into their own issues. The one time I felt anything for her was when she got really excited about her father not actually being a rapist but a nice guy who is excited about meeting his long lost daughter and who might even get back together with her bio mom, I felt bad for her as she realized that her bio dad really is a scumbag, but even then she seemed to move on quickly.

I don't buy for a second that the NYPD would spend this much time and effort on a case that is decades old, has no evidence, no suspects, and a victim who wants nothing to do with it and didn't even file the report. Of course it all worked out, but I cant help but think about the countless assault cases with real evidence and victims that are desperate for justice that are gathering dust because Olivia wants to focus all of their resources on cases that she feel personally connected with. Did you guys know that Olivia is a child of rape? Did she guys forget? Because this episode seems to think we need reminders every five seconds. I just hate Olivia's stupid victim whisper and concerned head tilt, its so condescending, she talks to victims like they're five. 

 Carisi can do much better than Rollins. 

[meatball77]

4 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

 

The guest cast was decent, although the adopted daughter was really annoying. Her going to the cops about her newly found bio moms rape seemed like a crappy thing to do, it felt like this was less about getting justice for her bio mom and more about making herself feel better about the awful circumstances of her birth and to feel like a hero. It felt selfish and presumptuous for her and the squad to keep trying to force this woman to deal with this terribly traumatic thing that happened to her because it tied into their own issues. The one time I felt anything for her was when she got really excited about her father not actually being a rapist but a nice guy who is excited about meeting his long lost daughter and who might even get back together with her bio mom, I felt bad for her as she realized that her bio dad really is a scumbag, but even then she seemed to move on quickly.

 

That would have been a good story.  Have the adoptive daughter use it for tiktok clout which causes the NYPD to have to investigate because of the amount of media attention it attracted.  Then at the same time have the bio mom harmed by the entire thing because she didn't want to reopen the trauma.  End with a dead end and bio mom spiraling into alcoholism.

[MarylandGirl]

I also thought it was going to turn out to be a relative of the mother's, like her father or something. Or that she would have told the daughter she was raped, then later said actually it was completely consensual.

The daughter annoyed me as well. She just seemed too happy and perky no matter what happened, plus pushing the mother to report.

Agreed that this was a bad choice of an ep for trying to draw viewers in after watching the return of the original L&O. The holiday hate crimes one would have been a much better choice.

[wknt3]

13 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I like the Rollisi relationship and the domestic scenes, but God, Amanda is in her 30s at least and has two kids. It’s time to grow up and not hide your relationship that you’ve been in for almost a year. I hate childish storylines from characters who should have more maturity than she’s showing. Like at some point it stops being cutesy. (I know a lot of the fandom tends to be like tee hee Olivia doesn’t know yet like we’re still in high school.) 

I don't like Rollisi as actual textual on screen material (I do think the actors have good on screen chemistry and the way they sometimes write Carisi as too good to be true made it fun to joke/speculate about why he was helping with the kids so much). That said I agree that it was past time to end the whole secret romance thing. Although to be fair to Rollins maybe she was trying to protect Carisi's reputation given her track record? Although it does make Fin just a little bit more awesome that he is the only one who has managed to spend a long time in the unit without getting involved with a colleague. Although I'm sure that there is plenty of fanfic out there about him and Munch...

[preeya]

Ms Maxwell (Betty Buckley) has a great "Memory" [pun intended]

I wonder if she has any CATs? 

[Andyourlittledog2]

Wow. That was really stupid. I mean OTT stupid.

First, I wanted to smack that eighteen year old controlling justice warrior every time she was on screen.  She was doing it for her mother but she didn't give a rat's ass what it what do to her mother or how her mother felt. The show made it all into a fairy tale ending but in real life, just no. It was pure fantasyland.

The whole rehash of the Benson rape story and then Maxwell's rape story was slathering the whole thing so thick you couldn't even see through it anymore.

But mostly it was the daughter.  As a victim of rape myself I know the feeling of other people trying to do-good you into doing whatever they think you should need to do. It's exhausting and annoying. If I had had to deal with that girl I'd change my number.  Social justice even if it kills the person you're 'helping', right?  I just really bugs. I got my guy caught, tried, and locked in prison within six months of the crime so that's not the problem. It's someone else thinking they can control and virtually bully you into a script of what to do and what to feel. Too many people think they are the savior and know it all and that girl just embodies all of that to me.

But the show tied it all up with a nice little bow and everyone's la la la happy now and has what they want...well that was aggravating beyond for me.

[853fisher]

Benson's involvement in this case reminded me of a favorite acronym from TWoP days: T! I! P!  She certainly was taking it personally. 

Eight people around a table maskless under a large screen reading “MASKS HELP PREVENT THE SPREAD OF COVID-19” just looked silly.  They can stop signaling that virtue now.  We get it.  SVU is socially responsible with a capital "s. r."

15 hours ago, TV Diva Queen said:

Wasn’t the actress who played the birth mom the same actress who killed her baby and put it in a cooler?  The opening scene was her in a bodega on Halloween and she was buying diapers or something?  I get they cast actors in different roles, but I couldn’t get past her other role. 

I remember that episode but I think that was Elizabeth Mitchell (Juliet on "Lost," among other things).  But you're not imagining that we've seen the birth mother actress before.  In fact, we've seen her a total of 4 times on the show now, going as far back as 2004 and the episode with Missy Kurtz, the psychopathic teen who orchestrated the video store robbery/shooting.  I think I need to get a life. ;)

Edited February 26, 2022 by 853fisher

[wknt3]

6 hours ago, 853fisher said:

Benson's involvement in this case reminded me of a favorite acronym from TWoP days: T! I! P!  She certainly was taking it personally. 

Well she was child of rape so it was personal. It was never really explicitly mentioned, but it was the undercurrent to the whole episode. I just wish the writers made it clear and didn't count on the viewers knowing her back story after the show being on for 57 years and Mariska's subtle acting choices to get the point across. I mean I don't think they mentioned it even once!

[Zoe]

20 hours ago, 853fisher said:

I remember that episode but I think that was Elizabeth Mitchell (Juliet on "Lost," among other things).  But you're not imagining that we've seen the birth mother actress before.  In fact, we've seen her a total of 4 times on the show now, going as far back as 2004 and the episode with Missy Kurtz, the psychopathic teen who orchestrated the video store robbery/shooting.  I think I need to get a life. ;)

There have been multiple episodes! The person you're responding to is right--I think they tried to claim some meat had gone bad.  Oh wait, that was the Hillary Duff episode. 
 

The Elizabeth Mitchell one had to do with the baby having Tay-sachs. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by Zoe

[faithie]

 I wonder about real-life statistics for impregnated rape victims carrying a pregnancy to term.

In Wolf-world it seems to be 100%.

[Jane Tuesday]

On 2/25/2022 at 11:01 PM, Andyourlittledog2 said:

First, I wanted to smack that eighteen year old controlling justice warrior every time she was on screen.  She was doing it for her mother but she didn't give a rat's ass what it what do to her mother or how her mother felt.

<snip>

As a victim of rape myself I know the feeling of other people trying to do-good you into doing whatever they think you should need to do. It's exhausting and annoying. If I had had to deal with that girl I'd change my number.  Social justice even if it kills the person you're 'helping', right?  I just really bugs. I got my guy caught, tried, and locked in prison within six months of the crime so that's not the problem. It's someone else thinking they can control and virtually bully you into a script of what to do and what to feel. Too many people think they are the savior and know it all and that girl just embodies all of that to me.

Cosigning ALL OF THIS. As a survivor myself, I get so tired of this narrative that there's only one way to survive. That if you don't prosecute, if you don't "shout it from the rooftops", that you're destined to be forever damaged and incapable of moving on. Nobody is owed my story, and I can deal with it as I see fit. If I told someone - in confidence - about my abuse, and they went to the fucking cops and reported it without my knowledge? (And then the cops started badgering me and insisting i had to remember things I've worked to move past?) That would be the end of our relationship. If the daughter had talked the bio mom into reporting, that would be different. But to take away her agency, her choice? Big fucking no. The daughter wants to think she's a victim. Of what? Having a great life with loving adoptive parents? SMH.

The ONLY way this story would have been palatable to me was if the daughter was twelve.

- signed, A Former Casual Viewer Who Only Tuned in Because I Watched the Reboot, and Was Reminded Why I Hated This Show

[nittany cougar]

On 2/25/2022 at 12:50 PM, Route66 said:

Their experiences would have been entirely different. Liv was raised knowing she was a child of rape. Her mother was an abusive alcoholic. Ashley wasn't raised by a mother who was raped and didn't learn she was a product of it until she was an adult. It didn't shape who she was at all.

I agree.  I just cannot stand Olivia in lecture mode, which she seems to be most of the time. She always seems to have the same pissy expression.  

Her mother was originally not portrayed as an abusive alcoholic.  In season 1 she had a loving relationship with her mom, and she never said that her mother was abusive.  There was a scene of them out at dinner drinking wine and holding hands across the table.  The inconsistency in the characterization of Serena has not been explained.  It could be a problem of old writers versus newer writers in the 23 year history.  Nevertheless, someone in the production should be aware of the history of the character. 

Edited February 27, 2022 by nittany cougar

[853fisher]

14 hours ago, Zoe said:

There have been multiple episodes! The person you're responding to is right--I think they tried to claim some meat had gone bad.  Oh wait, that was the Hillary Duff episode. 

You're right too!  Thanks for jogging my memory.  I was looking at the wrong character on IMDB.

[hookedontv]

On 2/27/2022 at 1:25 AM, Jane Tuesday said:

On 2/26/2022 at 12:01 AM, Andyourlittledog2 said:

First, I wanted to smack that eighteen year old controlling justice warrior every time she was on screen.  She was doing it for her mother but she didn't give a rat's ass what it what do to her mother or how her mother felt.

<snip>

As a victim of rape myself I know the feeling of other people trying to do-good you into doing whatever they think you should need to do. It's exhausting and annoying. If I had had to deal with that girl I'd change my number.  Social justice even if it kills the person you're 'helping', right?  I just really bugs. I got my guy caught, tried, and locked in prison within six months of the crime so that's not the problem. It's someone else thinking they can control and virtually bully you into a script of what to do and what to feel. Too many people think they are the savior and know it all and that girl just embodies all of that to me.

Expand  

Cosigning ALL OF THIS. As a survivor myself, I get so tired of this narrative that there's only one way to survive. That if you don't prosecute, if you don't "shout it from the rooftops", that you're destined to be forever damaged and incapable of moving on. Nobody is owed my story, and I can deal with it as I see fit. If I told someone - in confidence - about my abuse, and they went to the fucking cops and reported it without my knowledge? (And then the cops started badgering me and insisting i had to remember things I've worked to move past?) That would be the end of our relationship. If the daughter had talked the bio mom into reporting, that would be different. But to take away her agency, her choice? Big fucking no. The daughter wants to think she's a victim. Of what? Having a great life with loving adoptive parents? SMH.

The ONLY way this story would have been palatable to me was if the daughter was twelve.

- signed, A Former Casual Viewer Who Only Tuned in Because I Watched the Reboot, and Was Reminded Why I Hated This Show

All of this. I haven't watched SVU in quite some time, decided to give it a shot again, and all I can hear is Benson whispering, with a pained look on her face, forcing everyone to act how SHE would act. Different doesn't mean wrong, bitch.

As many said -- the daughter was ridiculous. Every time she was on camera, her OTT goofy mannerisms were really off putting. I feel the daughter was completely in the wrong for going to the police under the guise of "helping" her bio mom. Her bio mom didn't want the help. It would have been bad enough if the daughter kept needling the bio mom, but after one meeting the daughter (i don't even remember her name, that's how little i liked her) decides to stroll into SVU to report her mom's rape. Her bio mom didn't consent to sex at 15, and she sure as hell didn't consent to have her rape brought to the police. As you said above, her agency and choise -- and consent -- were taken away. 

It really got under my skin and infuriated me. 

[jabRI]

I check on IMDB, Bio mom was in this SVU episode:

 

A young woman is abducted, and the clues to her disappearance can be found by investigating at her character in an online role-playing game. And her case may also reveal clues about an unsolved case involving another girl's disappearance.

[Wizardpatch]

I LOLed at the perp's entire in-law side of the family ratting him out and not trying to protect him at all. Didn't his wife even abandon him? So unrealistic. Its not like he was caught with child porn or something that would justify that.

Edited March 2, 2022 by Wizardpatch