College Basketball

[mojoween]

Kids can be annoying, and Drew Timme is annoying.

But I don’t hate the kids, I dislike teams.  As in, the program.  Not everyone likes everything and that is ok.  I am rooting for Gonzaga to lose, while others root for them to win.  Again, that to me is what fandom is all about.

Now people who live in Auburn, Alabama?  I bet they hate the players on the Alabama football team, and vice versa for people who live in Tuscaloosa.

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

You can hate Duke if you're a UNC fan or whatever. But to hate the individual players -- why? Like what's there to hate about, say, Zion Williamson? Just curious. He's a very kind, generous and humble young man.

There is a huge difference between amateurs and professional athletes. Professional athletes are getting paid millions to play ball. Amateur college athletes are getting paid nothing. To me, hating and harassing an NCAA athlete is a bit like heckling a kid at a high school varsity game. Why? They're just kids.

“Just kids” doesn’t give them a free pass to act like jerks. Grayson Allen may have been an unpaid college kid, but he was old enough to know tripping people is wrong. I have nothing against a guy like Zion. But Christian Laetnner, Gerald Henderson, Greg Paulus or Grayson Allen? Please.

NCAA games are nothing like a varsity high school basketball game. These players are not high school players. We wouldn’t have this thread and be talking about these players if that was the case. They wouldn’t have scholarships to college. They wouldn’t be treated like gods on their college campus.

I think they should get paid. I know they’re working very hard and are under a huge amount of pressure on a very public stage. But I definitely don’t think these players are “just kids” who should get a free pass. Actions have consequences, and that means people will hate you if you act like a jerk. That’s not just how sports work, that’s how life works.

ETA: I don’t hate them as people. I don’t wish them any harm or anything. I just really hate them as players.

Edited April 4, 2021 by Jeddah

[Crs97]

I don’t follow college basketball until March Madness so it is always fun to watch a game and know nothing about the players.  I thought I would root for UCLA, but about halfway through the first realized I was rooting for Gonzaga.  I loved their coach’s smile and shrug as he shook the UCLA coach’s hand after the game, and he and Shruggs (Shuggs?) went out of their way to compliment UCLA.  It was a great game!!

[basiltherat]

So heartbreaking for UCLA -- if they would have made JUST ONE of the free throws that they missed in regulation, they would have won the game.  And no textbook "buzzer beater" for the smugzas.  Also,, I really can't stand it when the announcers are so clearly biased towards one team, and they are not the local announcers.

[Bastet]

This Arizona-Stanford women's championship game is fantastic.  I'm hoping AZ can pull out a comeback win.

They just got screwed by an incorrect possession call that would have been reviewable had it happened three seconds later.  Ouch.

Damn, so close.  But what a great championship game, and what a great tournament. 

Edited April 5, 2021 by Bastet

[Lady Whistleup]

Another heartbreaker of a game. I felt horrible for Aari McDonald crying at the end. Aww. She's a beautiful girl, by the way.

[xaxat]

At the start I was afraid Stanford was going to run away and hide. I was sure that final shot was boing to go. . . because it did last night. 

The officiating for the women was rough.

[emma675]

I feel like the officiating for the UCLA/Gonzaga game last night and the women's game today was suspect. I'm in no way an expert but I was surprised and confused by a lot of the calls. The best games are when you forget the refs are even there.

[Jane Tuesday]

I'm old, so I remember when people were all, "WTF is a Zag?" and all anybody knew about them was that John Stockton had played there. So Gonzaga will always be a Cinderella team to me, even when they're seeded #1. It's not like they're Duke, or Kentucky, or (shudders) Kansas.

Go Zags!

[Jane Tuesday]

Two thoughts at halftime: 

The Baylor guys are HUGE. Not just tall, but massively built. 

Can we dispense with the chin straps on the head coaches? I'm all for mask wearing, but they're nowhere near anyone during the game, and they're clearly not going to wear them, regardless. It's just distracting and stupid-looking.

[mojoween]

Nantz and Raftery are 1000% rooting for Gonzaga and it actually has carried over from Saturday.  It’s so transparent.

[Jane Tuesday]

I wish they'd stop with the artsy camera angles. I know it's a boring game, and the director is probably more bored than anyone. But it makes it hard to follow the play. Just keep it on the elevated view from half-court, thanks. 

I agree with what Sir Charles was saying at the half. Baylor should be leading by way more than they are. I honestly don't understand how Gonzaga is still in this, as poorly as they're playing. 

[LexieLily]

The only real reason I am rooting for Gonzaga is that I would feel bad if they went defeated all this way and then lost the final game.

I don't know anything about college basketball or any of the teams.

[Lady Whistleup]

I think Gonzaga is just winded from that F4 game. That, and Baylor is really really good.

[Jane Tuesday]

17 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think Gonzaga is just winded from that F4 game.

Yep, they've got no fire. Listless on defense, careless with the ball. And I think they got thrown off mentally when they got behind off the top. So many times,  I've seen them pass to someone who's standing unguarded on the wing, only for that person to hesitate and pass it off instead of taking the shot.

Meanwhile, Baylor has made approximately 73 3-point shots. LOL

[Mean Machine]

I'm here for the Gonzaga hate.   Couldn't believe Baylor was getting four and a half points.  Easy money.

[emmawoodhouse]

Yay me. I knew the Zags were going down. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by emmawoodhouse
I know tenses. Really!!!

[Lady Whistleup]

6 minutes ago, Jane Tuesday said:

Yep, they've got no fire. Listless on defense, careless with the ball. And I think they got thrown off mentally when they got behind off the top. So many times,  I've seen them pass to someone who's standing unguarded on the wing, only for that person to hesitate and pass it off instead of taking the shot.

Meanwhile, Baylor has made approximately 73 3-point shots. LOL

I think Gonzaga just wasn't used to teams that could challenge them seriously. They won that F4 game on the skin of their teeth, but you could tell that the constant lead changes spooked them. 

I also think that Baylor's fast, freewheeling offensive style is hard for college teams to defend. Baylor plays more like the Splash Brothers era of the GS Warriors. 

I felt bad for Gonzaga kids crying though. I always have to remember just how young these players are. 

[DawnDavenport]

49 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

I think Gonzaga is just winded from that F4 game. That, and Baylor is really really good.

The warning signs for Gonzaga were there in the UCLA game so I'm not surprised they lost. It's clear and has been clear to me for years they are always overrated and over ranked. If they were in a competitive conference like the Pac 12 where they are actually losing games instead of in a weak conference where they dominate, they would be a middling competitive team.

Edited April 6, 2021 by DawnDavenport

[AimingforYoko]

I wanna hate Baylor, but they've pretty much cleaned out the trash. And even then, it's not the kids' fault. So congrats.

And the questions really begin in Spokane.

[Carey]

14 minutes ago, DawnDavenport said:

The warning signs for Gonzaga were there in the UCLA game so I'm not surprised they lost. It's clear and has been clear to me for years they are always overrated and over ranked. If they were in a competitive conference like the Pac 12 where they are actually losing games instead of in a weak conference where they dominate, they would be a middling competitive team.

I'm not surprised either.  I actually mentioned a Seahawks to Broncos beatdown; even though losing by 16 was bad for the Zags, that wouldn't equate to a Superbowl 48 rout.  Though it did start like that!

 

The thing is that it's tricky to assume a close loss always leads to one's defeat.  It did happen to Kentucky 6 years ago (albeit a round earlier).  I remember Kansas nearly blowing it to Davidson, and then all of a sudden they booted North Carolina all around a 50 by 94 foot space on a court in San Antonio.  One more football analogy: Carolina crushed Arizona just like Baylor crushed Houston.  The Panthers ended up getting whacked by Denver.

 

You just never know.  The fact is that it's tough to win, let alone go undefeated in College Basketball (and in the NFL).  I'm not taking anything away from Gonzaga.  They had a great year & a great run.  They have been surging for the past several years.  I think they'll get the title eventually.  We'll never know how great they really were though; their region and its seeding was an epic joke.  And I think they definitely would not have gone undefeated in a real year.  They'd still be the top overall seed or No 2 (with Baylor being the top team); but I think they drop a game or two

[Lady Whistleup]

Well Jalen Suggs probably will declare for the NBA draft and be taken pretty quickly.

[emmawoodhouse]

41 minutes ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Well Jalen Suggs probably will declare for the NBA draft and be taken pretty quickly.

I've heard he's as high as #2 on some draft boards. Cade Cunningham looks to be the consensus #1 pick.

[Phebemarie]

The game last light reminded me of what happened to my Oregon State Beavers when they played Houston.  Houston absolutely dominated the first half with their smothering defense, and the Beavers' shooting was cold.  In the second half, Beavs found their rhythm and actually made it a game, tying it up in the last few minutes.

The difference is Gonzaga never did figure out how to slow the Baylor scoring machine (those threes).  

In other news, Beavs get overlooked again in the "One Shining Moment" montage.  You'd think a team that made it to the Elite Eight and defeated Sister Jean's Ramblers a little more respect.  

Edited April 6, 2021 by Phebemarie

[Lady Whistleup]

10 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I've heard he's as high as #2 on some draft boards. Cade Cunningham looks to be the consensus #1 pick.

He's the sort of all purpose guard that would be a good fit on any team.

I feel bad for any player sent into the black hole of suck that is the Timberwolves.

[nittany cougar]

20 hours ago, mojoween said:

Nantz and Raftery are 1000% rooting for Gonzaga and it actually has carried over from Saturday.  It’s so transparent.

CBS was pushing the Gonzaga story throughout the tourney.  Nantz graduated from the University of Houston, where he was a student broadcaster for the basketball team.  He was open about cheering Houston until they lost on Saturday.

My sense is that CBS thought that that the Zags were unstoppable after the undefeated season and that miracle three pointer against UCLA.  You could see the network's bias as well in One Shining Moment, which had a very heavy Gonzaga bent, up until the the hastily added in last few seconds showing Baylor's victory. 

Edited April 6, 2021 by nittany cougar

[AimingforYoko]

Arizona finally fires Sean Miller.

[Lady Whistleup]

This is tricky but ...

I checked Gonzaga's demographics. It's a very small Catholic university with only 1% black population. 

Does anyone else get uncomfortable when these overwhelmingly white, Christian schools recruits 12 POC for their basketball team?

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

This is tricky but ...

I checked Gonzaga's demographics. It's a very small Catholic university with only 1% black population. 

Does anyone else get uncomfortable when these overwhelmingly white, Christian schools recruits 12 POC for their basketball team?

Gonzaga's team is almost as white as BYU. Always has been.

[AimingforYoko]

1 hour ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Does anyone else get uncomfortable when these overwhelmingly white, Christian schools recruits 12 POC for their basketball team?

Spokane is at least a real city, a lot of these colleges are in small towns.

There was an old joke about Green Bay back when I was a kid, Black people in Green Bay fit into one of two categories: Packers or passing through.

[xaxat]

Unless you are talking about an HBCUs (Historically Black College and Universities) black athletes are almost always overrepresented relative to the general student population. 

12 minutes ago, AimingforYoko said:

There was an old joke about Green Bay back when I was a kid, Black people in Green Bay fit into one of two categories: Packers or passing through.

That's actually not a joke. I'm a big guy who happens to be African American. In a previous career, I did IT work and on a consulting run through the Dakotas I was asked if I was in town for the show multiple times because the WWE was in town. It happens.

 

 

[mojoween]

And this whole time, I thought you were a bear who could type.

I had completely forgotten that Baylor’s hoops team was also tainted by horrific scandal.  Was anyone else surprised to find out Scott Drew has been there for 18 years?  One thing I will say, is that the current players were tiny tots when Baylor basketball was on the edge of extinction.

[Lady Whistleup]

One thing I notice about college hoops is that guys are so much more inconsistent at the FT line. Obviously in the NBA we also have big stars who struggle at the FT line (Lebron, Giannis), but the number of missed free throws seems to be much more common down the stretch in college.

And then I read this stat: apparently the best metric for predicting how well a college player will shoot in the NBA is his FT%. 

[AimingforYoko]

Interesting article about Tyler Summitt, Pat's son.

He sounds contrite, but I'm not sure if understands the gravity of his actions. Yes, everyone involved were adults, but in his position, there are simply lines you don't cross.

[Crashcourse]

I'm not sure what else he's supposed to say or do at this point.   Wear sackcloth and ashes?

[xaxat]

His big mistake is that he coaches women.

Rick Pitino was celebrated for getting Iona to the NCAA tournament. Not only was his extra-marital affair was far messier than Summit's, He didn't get fired for it. He only got fired when the NCAA alleged that shoe guys were paying Louisville players.

I don't have any problem with either of them getting second chances but it does feel like there is a double standard on the contrition scale. Hell, Hugh Freeze got a job a Liberty, a Christian university, despite the fact that he got fired from his previous job because he frequented escorts.

[mojoween]

If Bert Smith hadn’t passed out during the NCAA Tournament, he could have died.

https://apple.news/A6eO4fMkGRs2wIivRlpogSQ

 

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

If Bert Smith hadn’t passed out during the NCAA Tournament, he could have died.

https://apple.news/A6eO4fMkGRs2wIivRlpogSQ

 

I'm a bit surprised the NCAA medical staff didn't take him to the hospital (they monitored him for a couple of hours at the stadium, where he remained alert and stable, and then several hours later, back at the hotel, other officials urged him to go get further checked out) - not because I think someone should have suspected a blood clot was the cause of him going down, but because the one thing known about what happened is that his unprotected head hit the ground really hard.

Thank goodness he went, and thank goodness he wound up with a doctor who said she saw his fall, things aren't adding up, and she wants to do further testing to find out why he went down in the first place.  So he got the necessary treatment to dissolve the clot, and it didn't have the chance to possibly do severe or even fatal damage.

I like the story behind that grumpy pose on the stretcher.  (So maybe, if he didn't even want to be wheeled out, the med staff wanted to take him to hospital and he refused.)

[Lady Whistleup]

Disturbing news. Univ. Of Kentucky sophomore Terrence Clarke who had recently declared for the NBA draft died of a car accident.

[xaxat]

Wow! Kim Mulkey is leaving Baylor for LSU. 

[kathyk24]

On 4/22/2021 at 9:14 PM, Lady Whistleup said:

Disturbing news. Univ. Of Kentucky sophomore Terrence Clarke who had recently declared for the NBA draft died of a car accident.

He was from Boston and he knew some of the Celtics. I read a statement by John Calipari and he was devastated. He was speeding and hit a wall. I don't understand why you wouldn't hire a driver for him while he was in L. A.

[Lady Whistleup]

Theres some drama right now because some NBA teams seem to be throwing games left and right to tank because this draft class is apparently full of talent. It even has a name called "Fade for Cade." The Raptors, Thunder, and Rockets have been accused recently of throwing games in this "Fade for Cade" campaign.

[xaxat]

The T Wolves really need to tank and pray that no other team gets lucky in the lottery. Unless they fall in the bottom three, their pick goes to Golden State.

 

[Lady Whistleup]

34 minutes ago, xaxat said:

The T Wolves really need to tank and pray that no other team gets lucky in the lottery. Unless they fall in the bottom three, their pick goes to Golden State.

 

They're definitely tanking but the other teams seem to be doing a better job tanking. The Thunder are on a 6 game losing streak and the Cavs on a 9 game losing streak. The Raptors are sitting their starters. 

[Lamb18]

I think the Timberwolves still have a little pride left and want to win some games before the season is over, no matter what that does to their draft picks.

Besides I don't know how much draft picks really matter because just because a guy is #1 in college basketball doesn't mean he'll do great in pro basketball.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Lamb18

[Lady Whistleup]

Coach K is retiring.

[mojoween]

I AM NOT READY FOR THIS

[emmawoodhouse]

19 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I AM NOT READY FOR THIS

I was ready 30 years ago. 😁

[xaxat]

nm

Edited June 2, 2021 by xaxat

[AimingforYoko]

Good luck to the next Duke coach.....he's going to need it.

So Tobacco Row is going to look very different after next season.