S01.E10: Seeing the Light

[dmc]

1.  As Peloton fires over 2,800 employees, it's giving them a free 1-year subscription on the way out

 

I’ve been wondering about peloton because a lot of people were using them during the pandemic and of course that dropped off.  Also they did to high profile spots one on the show and one on billions with characters having a heart attack after using their equipment

2.  Roxanne Gay’s insightful thoughts on AJLT

https://audacity.substack.com/p/some-rambling-thoughts-on-and-just

[Rebecca berkowit]

8 hours ago, dmc said:

1.  As Peloton fires over 2,800 employees, it's giving them a free 1-year subscription on the way out

 

I’ve been wondering about peloton because a lot of people were using them during the pandemic and of course that dropped off.  Also they did to high profile spots one on the show and one on billions with characters having a heart attack after using their equipment

2.  Roxanne Gay’s insightful thoughts on AJLT

https://audacity.substack.com/p/some-rambling-thoughts-on-and-just

Geez, she LIKED the part where Charlotte ran around trying to invite Black people to her party so LTW and her husband wouldn’t be the only ones?  Who DOES that? They WERE the only ones!  Charlotte doesn’t know a lot of Black people!  So she’s going to pretend like she does and that’s somehow ok?  I thought this was another example of them trying to be politically correct but waaaay overcompensating.  People don’t behave like this unless they’re overly conscious of the fact that their new friends are Black. And that itself is weird.  

 

[dmc]

37 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Geez, she LIKED the part where Charlotte ran around trying to invite Black people to her party so LTW and her husband wouldn’t be the only ones?  Who DOES that? They WERE the only ones!  Charlotte doesn’t know a lot of Black people!  So she’s going to pretend like she does and that’s somehow ok?  I thought this was another example of them trying to be politically correct but waaaay overcompensating.  People don’t behave like this unless they’re overly conscious of the fact that their new friends are Black. And that itself is weird.  

 

I didn't like Charlotte doing that but I did like the aspect she discussed it with Lisa

[bluegirl147]

2 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Geez, she LIKED the part where Charlotte ran around trying to invite Black people to her party so LTW and her husband wouldn’t be the only ones?

She also thinks Tragically Hip was the best  episode of the season.  And is a fan of Samantha Irby's writing.  Roxanne Gay can have her thoughts on AJLT and I can have mine.

 

[Jillybean]

16 hours ago, luna1122 said:

I never really thought of SATC as a comedy either, tho. 

Me neither, but it had far more amusing moments than AJLT.

[bluegirl147]

36 minutes ago, Jillybean said:

Me neither, but it had far more amusing moments than AJLT.

SATC would take relatable situations and find the humor in them.

AJLT would take cringeworthy situations and tell us they are funny.

I never felt like SATC was telling me I needed to like or dislike something.  They showed us things and it was up to the audience to feel however they wanted to feel.  I don't ever remember anyone connected to the show scolding me for not getting something they wrote or acted.

Contrast that with AJT who has people telling the audience what we are supposed to think and feel and if we dare say we don't like something then we are told we are the problem.

[dmc]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

She also thinks Tragically Hip was the best  episode of the season.  And is a fan of Samantha Irby's writing.  Roxanne Gay can have her thoughts on AJLT and I can have mine.

 

I don’t know I liked the episodes enough to have a favorite. Maybe the last one 

[T Summer]

5 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

She also thinks Tragically Hip was the best  episode of the season.  And is a fan of Samantha Irby's writing.  Roxanne Gay can have her thoughts on AJLT and I can have mine.

 

Yes, her thoughts were pretty far from mine too. Ep 5 was definately the most cringeworthy... with overtones of horrifying!

[heatherchandler]

On 2/8/2022 at 4:24 PM, TakomaSnark said:

The one she and Big bought in the movie? Seema sold that, and then Carrie bought the terribly green screened one with the mysterious beeping, and then Carrie sold *that* one in the same episode (which Seema encouraged so she could keep double-dipping on her commission).

Was the apartment a set with a green screen?  Is that why it looked so weird?

 

9 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Geez, she LIKED the part where Charlotte ran around trying to invite Black people to her party so LTW and her husband wouldn’t be the only ones?  Who DOES that? They WERE the only ones!  Charlotte doesn’t know a lot of Black people!  So she’s going to pretend like she does and that’s somehow ok?  I thought this was another example of them trying to be politically correct but waaaay overcompensating.  People don’t behave like this unless they’re overly conscious of the fact that their new friends are Black. And that itself is weird.  

 

The show had some huge misses and this was a big one.  How is this situation being played as ok, and also for laughs?

 

7 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

She also thinks Tragically Hip was the best  episode of the season.  And is a fan of Samantha Irby's writing.  Roxanne Gay can have her thoughts on AJLT and I can have mine.

 

That is a nice way to say it.  I was going to say something less kind about Roxanne Gay... she's a moron.

 

[TakomaSnark]

6 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

Was the apartment a set with a green screen?  Is that why it looked so weird?

That is a nice way to say it.  I was going to say something less kind about Roxanne Gay... she's a moron.

 

Yup, per MPK in one of the writer room podcasts.

I thought Gay's opening paragraph was fine and then it quickly went downhill from there. "Tragically Hip," the best episode of the season?

Edited February 11, 2022 by TakomaSnark
Wrong word used.

[Shermie]

Quote

I have liked Seema, but I found her behavior on the phone with Carrie obnoxious. Maybe take a five minute break from the sexfest to talk to your friend. 

Or maybe don’t answer the phone while having sex.

Quote

On AJLT, most of what bothered me about Charlotte was (1) writing and (2) whatever was going on with KD's mouth, which affected her enunciation and the way some consonants sounded.

Yeah, the fillers or Botox or whatever. Just stop, ladies. It’s obvious and looks terrible, the opposite of what you’re going for, methinks.

Quote

Carrie could participate in the podcast from her bedroom (with a more professional microphone supplied by Che), then why can't Che participate from L.A.? Che's not going to be filming the pilot 24/7. And they're calling it a podcast, so it's not a radio call-in show with set times for being "on air", thus the time difference can be overcome. Sheesh.

Even a call-in show can be done remotely. During Covid lockdowns a talk radio station I listen to had most of their on-air personalities doing their time slots from their homes, including call-ins from listeners.

Someone wondered what this show might have been like if Miranda and Nya had been the pairing, as intended. I’m guessing it would have a more mature exploration of changing sexuality; and if both were in hetero relationships, then a more hesitant response to their attraction. Miranda being with Che was a vanity project for Cynthia Nixon and it showed.

[Lethallyfab]

I think what would be interesting about a Nya-Miranda relationship would be that on one level, they’re in the same world, they’re matched intellectually, but, on another, there’s the inherent power imbalance between a professor-student, presenting plenty of opportunities for dramatic tension.

Che was never part of Miranda’s world, but the moment they showed interest, Miranda was ALL-IN  (I would be *furious* if I were Carrie and Miranda never listened to my podcast until she had a hard-on — I can’t think of the female equivalent for this so that’s the language I’m using - for Che) but they never really addressed the discrepancy in Che & Miranda’s ages, lifestyles, interests as any real source of conflict, outside of Che briefly being “you’re married” and Miranda instantly being “ok, but not anymore, so we’re cool?”

Also, I hate to say it but I found Nya’s fertility plotline to be kinda boring and just a retread of Charlotte, so I would rather have seen a Nya/Miranda plotline.

[bluegirl147]

22 minutes ago, Lethallyfab said:

but they never really addressed the discrepancy in Che & Miranda’s ages, lifestyles, interests as any real source of conflict, outside of Che briefly being “you’re married” and Miranda instantly being “ok, but not anymore, so we’re cool?”

Because Cynthia Nixon wanted Miranda to have the same happily ever after she got. She didn't want any conflict or anything standing in their way.  Which is just not realistic.   Miranda and Che are two people who are vastly different.  It doesn't mean they could not have a successful relationship but there is more to a relationship than jumping on a plane to go see your lover and thinking you are in rom com.  Which Miranda saying that line was just ridiculous. There was nothing funny about her telling her husband they are over and then jetting off to see her new lover.  As far as we know they never got to know one another other than what we saw. If I was writing season 2 and I had to include Miranda I would have her realize once spending time in LA with Che that while she likes Che she can't have a future with them.   Much like Samantha realized that about Smith.  

Edited February 11, 2022 by bluegirl147

[Ms Blue Jay]

3 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

Because Cynthia Nixon wanted Miranda to have the same happily ever after she got. She didn't want any conflict or anything standing in their way.  Which is just not realistic.   Miranda and Che are two people who are vastly different.  It doesn't mean they could not have a successful relationship but there is more to a relationship than jumping on a plane to go see your lover and thinking you are in rom com.  Which Miranda saying that line was just ridiculous. There was nothing funny about her telling her husband they are over and then jetting off to see her new lover.  As far as we know they never got to know one another other than what we saw. If I was writing season 2 and I had to include Miranda I would have her realize once spending time in LA with Che that while she likes Che she can't have a future with them.   Much like Samantha realized that about Smith.  

Meg Ryan is likeable.  LOL.  That's the difference.  And Che is not Tom Hanks.  I'm sorry.

Edited February 12, 2022 by Ms Blue Jay

[buttersister]

Quote

Are the people writing this over 70?I

I can assure you that people over 70 know what a podcast is and listen to a variety of them. The people writing this are arrogant hacks.

Samantha Irby, in particular, is a disappointment.

 

[millennium]

On 2/3/2022 at 9:56 AM, Jillybean said:

 It's as though these TV showrunners don't understand how TV is made.

That much is abundantly clear.

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, buttersister said:

I can assure you that people over 70 know what a podcast is and listen to a variety of them. The people writing this are arrogant hacks.

Samantha Irby, in particular, is a disappointment.

 

Samantha Irby needs to find a new profession since legitimate criticism "hurt her feelings". All writers get criticized. She should realize that.

[millennium]

On 2/7/2022 at 7:09 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

The scene was ridiculous because Miranda was desperate--to the point of following her in the bathroom--to get Carrie to validate what was happening, and Carrie refused to do it. Carrie didn't want to engage at ALL with Miranda about that--she's obviously skeptical but trying to be polite about it--and Miranda all but shook her to get her to validate it.

Remember when Carrie was moving to Paris to be with the Russian?  All the shit Miranda gave her on the way out?  I was hoping Carrie would take the opportunity to even the score, because Miranda needed to hear it.   But no.

[buttersister]

Quote

Samantha Irby needs to find a new profession since legitimate criticism "hurt her feelings". All writers get criticized. She should realize that.

She used to. So double the disappointment. Expected better. I suspect the hurt feelings are being fed by the same clique that thinks AJLT is breakthrough TV.

Here’s hoping this finale is the finale of this failed experiment. HBO wants eyes but not panning. Previously HBO programming that was controversial was fine by them—but the likes of John From Cincinnati was one and done. (A rare—and confused—David Mitch failure. Willie Garson was in it, too.)

[WendyCR72]

24 minutes ago, buttersister said:

She used to. So double the disappointment. Expected better. I suspect the hurt feelings are being fed by the same clique that thinks AJLT is breakthrough TV.

Here’s hoping this finale is the finale of this failed experiment. HBO wants eyes but not panning. Previously HBO programming that was controversial was fine by them—but the likes of John From Cincinnati was one and done. (A rare—and confused—David Mitch failure. Willie Garson was in it, too.)

On the one hand - as much as I don't want it to be - I think this will get another season since someone at HBO (?) was hyping the numbers. On the other hand, the fact that it hasn't been yet makes me wonder if the polarizing response has given HBO pause. (Or maybe those great numbers withered as the weeks went on? We'll never know.)

[buttersister]

Heh, well MPK was raving about ratings.🤔

[bluegirl147]

7 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

Samantha Irby needs to find a new profession since legitimate criticism "hurt her feelings". All writers get criticized. She should realize that.

I think Samantha Irby and also Cynthia Nixon took the criticism personally because the material was personal to them.  But hey if you are going to write and portray personal stories then you need to be able to separate what's onscreen from what is your real life. It's not like SI and CN are new to the business.   It was a poorly written storyline.   But instead of acknowledging that the party line is the audience is just too resistant to change.

6 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

On the one hand - as much as I don't want it to be - I think this will get another season since someone at HBO (?) was hyping the numbers. On the other hand, the fact that it hasn't been yet makes me wonder if the polarizing response has given HBO pause. (Or maybe those great numbers withered as the weeks went on? We'll never know.)

I think they might insist on knowing what exactly would be in store for season two. Maybe even quietly do some focus groups. Or drop some spoilers to see what the reaction would be. 

[Rebecca berkowit]

Totally off-topic, but I started watching the new L Word reboot or update or whatever.  Somehow they manage to bring in diverse characters without making that the whole essence of their character. And, what do you know, they also show plenty of interesting sex between women of various configurations of butch/femme.  They also address the aging of the characters where needed.  So it can be done!  I recommend it just as an example of how to do this correctly.  

[millennium]

1 hour ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

 Somehow they manage to bring in diverse characters without making that the whole essence of their character.

"Hallelujah!  The trans rabbi is in ... Who better to lead a they-mitzvah than a trans rabbi?"

I had some problems with the "trans rabbi."   Not the fact that she was trans, but that the show went out of its way to label her as "trans rabbi."   It defined her as trans.  Not a woman -- trans.

The distinction may not mean much to the general population.  But to me, a transgender person, I regarded it as insulting and reductive.  

The show made a point of explaining that the "trans rabbi" was not Charlotte's first choice.   She tried to get two other rabbis, both of whom begged off.   So the "trans rabbi" is good enough to pinch-hit when you can't find anybody else to do it, but she wasn't the first choice.   Nice.  Even so, Charlotte seemed to congratulate herself on her own wokeness for hiring her.

The "trans rabbi" struck me as the kind of flip-the-social-script scenario Norman Lear might have come up with in the 70s, instead back then the joke might have been that the rabbi was black.   In other words, take an ostensibly progressive idea, but position it in a way that a mainstream audience can giggle about.  From woke to joke.

I also thought the portrayal of the rabbi herself was less than complimentary.   I have seen the word "buttinski" used in this thread (and I wouldn't disagree).  Maybe I'm overthinking it but the manner in which the "trans rabbi" exited the stall and rudely inserted herself into a private conversation between two cisgender women (Carrie and Miranda) struck me as a thinly-veiled metaphor for the ongoing bathroom controversy in which some groups have complained that they don't want transgender people imposing themselves upon the women's bathroom because cis-gender women may feel uncomfortable or unsafe.

YMMV.

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by millennium

[Rebecca berkowit]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

"Hallelujah!  The trans rabbi is in ... Who better to lead a they-mitzvah than a trans rabbi?"

I had some problems with the "trans rabbi."   Not the fact that she was trans, but that the show went out of its way to label her as "trans rabbi."   It defined her as trans.  Not a woman -- trans.

The distinction may not mean much to the general population.  But to me, a transgender person, I regarded it as insulting and reductive.  

The show made a point of explaining that the "trans rabbi" was not Charlotte's first choice.   She tried to get two other rabbis, both of whom begged off.   So the "trans rabbi" is good enough to pinch-hit when you can't find anybody else to do it, but she wasn't the first choice.   Nice.  Even so, Charlotte seemed to congratulate herself on her own wokeness for hiring her.

The "trans rabbi" struck me as the kind of flip-the-social-script scenario Norman Lear might have come up with in the 70s, instead back then the joke might have been that the rabbi was black.   In other words, take an ostensibly progressive idea, but position it in a way that a mainstream audience can giggle about.  From woke to joke.

I also thought the portrayal of the rabbi herself was less than complimentary.   I have seen the word "buttinski" used in this thread (and I wouldn't disagree).  Maybe I'm overthinking it but the manner in which the "trans rabbi" exited the stall and rudely inserted herself into a private conversation between two cisgender women (Carrie and Miranda) struck me as a thinly-veiled metaphor for the ongoing bathroom controversy in which some groups have complained that they don't want transgender people imposing themselves upon the women's bathroom because cis-gender women may feel uncomfortable or unsafe.

YMMV.

 

The rabbi was her third choice?  I would have thought she hired this particular rabbi specifically because of Rock’s identity, as a way of being supportive.  Seems very Charlotte to do that.   It is insulting to have this be the third choice, to say the least.  And, yes, “trans rabbi” is also insulting, unless that’s how the rabbi bills herself, like “I’m the trans rabbi!”  Which, who does that?  Otoh, Che is constantly talking about being non-binary, so that’s this show for you.  People are reduced to one thing.

Edited February 14, 2022 by Rebecca berkowit

[millennium]

34 minutes ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

The rabbi was her third choice?  I would have thought she hired this particular rabbi specifically because of Rock’s identity, as a way of being supportive.  Seems very Charlotte to do that.   It is insulting to have this be the third choice, to say the least.  And, yes, “trans rabbi” is also insulting, unless that’s how the rabbi bills herself, like “I’m the trans rabbi!”  Which, who does that?  Otoh, Che is constantly talking about being non-binary, so that’s this show for you.  People are reduced to one thing.

The first two rabbis Charlotte contacted turned her down, citing "family reasons," which Carrie agreed sounded dubious.  The inference was that they backed out upon hearing it was a "they-mitzvah."

It appears Charlotte planned the whole event insensitively, which is very out of character for the SATC Charlotte.   The first person she should have talked to was her entitled, spoiled-ass child Rock (ugh, that name -- what is with the action hero names in this series?  [The] Rock?  Rambo?), who, unlike the rest of us, doesn't have to do things to please or at least not embarrass their parents.   Charlotte found an LGBT rabbi only after the others refused.   Perhaps Charlotte planned it as though she would plan a bat-mitzvah for herself, which it turned out to be.

 

[bluegirl147]

13 hours ago, millennium said:

I had some problems with the "trans rabbi."   Not the fact that she was trans, but that the show went out of its way to label her as "trans rabbi."   It defined her as trans.  Not a woman -- trans.

Surely they could have celebrated the fact she was transgender without defining her by it. I think I have mentioned before one of my best friends wants to be known as a  man who is gay and not a gay man.  He doesn't want his sexuality to be what people know him for.  

11 hours ago, Rebecca berkowit said:

Che is constantly talking about being non-binary, so that’s this show for you.  People are reduced to one thing.

Well the writers weren't up to the task of writing fully fleshed out characters.  It is interesting to me that in most reviews I have read Che being non binary was usually only mentioned once and that was to explain who they were.  I think for viewers we didn't care.  It wasn't a big deal but the show I think wanted us to think it was a big deal.   I think the audience was much more comfortable with it than the writers were.  

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 2/13/2022 at 5:53 PM, Rebecca berkowit said:

Totally off-topic, but I started watching the new L Word reboot or update or whatever.  Somehow they manage to bring in diverse characters without making that the whole essence of their character. And, what do you know, they also show plenty of interesting sex between women of various configurations of butch/femme.  They also address the aging of the characters where needed.  So it can be done!  I recommend it just as an example of how to do this correctly.  

I used to love the first iteration of that show!  The show was great at making an obsessed fan out of me a straight woman.  It was all LGBTQ characters.  There's some great LGBTQ pop culture out there.  In 2020-2021 there was a bit of an influx of gay Hallmark and Lifetime movies too.  And some of them were more believable than Miranda/Che.  

[Lethallyfab]

On 2/13/2022 at 9:57 PM, millennium said:

The first two rabbis Charlotte contacted turned her down, citing "family reasons," which Carrie agreed sounded dubious.  The inference was that they backed out upon hearing it was a "they-mitzvah."

I thought that it was later implied that they actually dropped out because Rock hadn’t memorized anything or put any effort into their ‘they-mitzvah.’

[millennium]

40 minutes ago, Lethallyfab said:

I thought that it was later implied that they actually dropped out because Rock hadn’t memorized anything or put any effort into their ‘they-mitzvah.’

I don't recall that.   I was going off when Charlotte first disclosed that the two rabbis backed out, Carrie said, "that doesn't sound very kosher."  Both the way Charlotte said it and Carrie's reaction left me with the impression it was because it was a "they-mitzvah."

[luna1122]

14 hours ago, Lethallyfab said:

I thought that it was later implied that they actually dropped out because Rock hadn’t memorized anything or put any effort into their ‘they-mitzvah.’

That's what I got from the scenario too, that they realized Rock wasn't prepared or taking it all seriously, so they peaced out 

Edited February 18, 2022 by luna1122

[Rebecca berkowit]

3 hours ago, luna1122 said:

That's what I got from the scenario too, that they realized Rock wasn't prepared or taking it all seriously, so they peaced out 

And this didn’t give Charlotte a clue that maybe the kid didn’t want to do this?  So they could’ve I dunno, had the discussion EARLIER than the day of?   Also, it’s not a wedding. There aren’t lifetime consequences for going through with it, such that it would suddenly occur to you at the very moment of the ceremony that it was a bad idea to go forward.  It’s not a “speak now or forever hold your piece” situation.  It’s just bad writing to create conflict.  Of course, if you hadn’t studied, yeah, then you might want to back out.  But this is also hard to believe as written. Charlotte was shown in an earlier episode telling Rock it was time to study, in a way that implied this had been a regular thing with the two of them at the table with Charlotte listening to Rock recite.  Did the writers not watch the same scene we did?   Was that scene there just to show us that Rock was not, in fact, studying?  Were we supposed to believe that every time they sat down to study like this, over the course of a year, Rock just walked away and refused, and still Charlotte had no idea Rock didn’t want to do it?  Far fetched, and especially unlikely given that Charlotte apparently absorbed enough from studying with Rock  to do the ceremony herself.  

[Scarlett45]

On 2/17/2022 at 5:04 PM, Lethallyfab said:

I thought that it was later implied that they actually dropped out because Rock hadn’t memorized anything or put any effort into their ‘they-mitzvah.’

Yes that’s what happened. 

11 hours ago, luna1122 said:

That's what I got from the scenario too, that they realized Rock wasn't prepared or taking it all seriously, so they peaced out 

Yup. 

[NeenerNeener]

I've been watching The Gilded Age' and CN is playing her Ada Brooks character as a flighty airhead. Pretty much the same way she played Miranda in the last third of AJLT. I wonder if the shooting schedules overlapped at all.

[millennium]

On 2/21/2022 at 1:57 PM, NeenerNeener said:

I've been watching The Gilded Age' and CN is playing her Ada Brooks character as a flighty airhead. Pretty much the same way she played Miranda in the last third of AJLT. I wonder if the shooting schedules overlapped at all.

I have held off watching The Gilded Age until I can shake the bad taste Cynthia Nixon left behind.  

[CeeBeeGee]

2 hours ago, millennium said:

I have held off watching The Gilded Age until I can shake the bad taste Cynthia Nixon left behind.  

Same. I'm so baffled by her staunch idiocy and her shrill insistence that the fans are somehow anti-woke that I honestly don't want to see her in anything. She's absolutely ruined a great character for her self-insert fan-fiction. 

 

[heatherchandler]

On 2/21/2022 at 12:57 PM, NeenerNeener said:

I've been watching The Gilded Age' and CN is playing her Ada Brooks character as a flighty airhead. Pretty much the same way she played Miranda in the last third of AJLT. I wonder if the shooting schedules overlapped at all.

Yes - the weird silly laughing, I was waiting for her to start gushing about Che.

 

2 hours ago, millennium said:

I have held off watching The Gilded Age until I can shake the bad taste Cynthia Nixon left behind.  

I held off for a bit too, but now I am watching.  I want to say I like it, but it is not great.

 

[bluegirl147]

26 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Same. I'm so baffled by her staunch idiocy and her shrill insistence that the fans are somehow anti-woke that I honestly don't want to see her in anything. She's absolutely ruined a great character for her self-insert fan-fiction. 

 

I'm right there with you.  I'm not sure I even want to watch SATC again. And as far as watching her give interviews hell to the no.  I don't need to hear her chastise me again for having an opinion.

[millennium]

1 hour ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Same. I'm so baffled by her staunch idiocy and her shrill insistence that the fans are somehow anti-woke that I honestly don't want to see her in anything. She's absolutely ruined a great character for her self-insert fan-fiction. 

 

I'm LGBT but view the world too coldly to ever be woke.  I fully support anyone who thinks the Che and Miranda storyline sucks just because it sucks.   Liberal, conservative, whatever -- we all recognize the odor of caca.   And that's what the Che and Miranda story was.

It's fashionable these days for content creators/performers and superfans to dismiss bad reviews as being influenced by political bias or other agendas.   They'd rather scapegoat the audience than confront a work's shortcomings and take responsibility for it.  Remember Game of Thrones Season 8?   To this day, Kit Harington, Peter Dinklage and others associated with the show blame the audience for the poor reception it received. 

I freely admit that I come to every TV show with an agenda -- I want to be entertained.  AJLT wasn't up to the challenge.

Personally, I think a plausible story could have been developed in which Miranda's divergence would have seemed more natural and in keeping with SATC.   It has always seemed to me that Miranda was latently in love with Carrie.   I don't think it ever occurred to Carrie (maybe not even to Miranda), nor was it reciprocated in any way, but I think the emotion was there.    The connection between Miranda and Carrie was different from their friendships with Samantha and Charlotte -- not on Carrie's part so much, but on Miranda's.   I think it all came to a head in the scene I referenced earlier where Miranda berated Carrie for going off to Paris.   Miranda wasn't concerned about Carrie's welfare, she was jealous and desperate, to a degree that seemed to surprise even Miranda.  Carrie was slipping away, maybe for good.    I also think Miranda's unresolved feelings for Carrie are why she never found a suitable man to love.   I have said elsewhere that I never believed Miranda loved Steve in the romantic sense.  I think she talked herself into settling for him.

YMMV.  But if I were writing it, I would have used that to lay a foundation for Miranda's swerve towards an alternative lifestyle.

Edited February 25, 2022 by millennium

[bluegirl147]

13 hours ago, millennium said:

It's fashionable these days for content creators/performers and superfans to dismiss bad reviews as being influenced by political bias or other agendas.   They'd rather scapegoat the audience than confront a work's shortcomings and take responsibility for it. 

I think we are going to see a lot more less than stellar content put out because if it gets bad reviews they aren't going to be taken seriously.  You can't fault an audience for not liking something.  

13 hours ago, millennium said:

Personally, I think a plausible story could have been developed in which Miranda's divergence would have seemed more natural and in keeping with SATC.   It has always seemed to me that Miranda was latently in love with Carrie.   I don't think it ever occurred to Carrie (maybe not even to Miranda), nor was it reciprocated in any way, but I think the emotion was there.    The connection between Miranda and Carrie was different from their friendships with Samantha and Charlotte -- not on Carrie's part so much, but on Miranda's.   I think it all came to a head in the scene I referenced earlier where Miranda berated Carrie for going off to Paris.   Miranda wasn't concerned about Carrie's welfare, she was jealous and desperate, to a degree that seemed to surprise even Miranda.  Carrie was slipping away, maybe for good.    I also think Miranda's unresolved feelings for Carrie are why she never found a suitable man to love.   I have said elsewhere that I never believed Miranda loved Steve in the romantic sense.  I think she talked herself into settling for him.

Miranda did always seem attached to Carrie.  AJLT would have never explored that because one of two things would have happened.  Carrie says thank you but no thank you and how do they just ignore that forever or Carrie says yes I feel the same way and then you have changed two characters.  I do think it would have been much more realistic to show Miranda be attracted to someone she already knows though.  Which seemed to be the original plan with Nya. They were going to become friends and it would have evolved from there.   I never bought Miranda and Steve and I do think on some level she thought he is here, he is Brady's father, so why not?  

[Shermie]

On 2/13/2022 at 7:22 PM, millennium said:

The show made a point of explaining that the "trans rabbi" was not Charlotte's first choice.   She tried to get two other rabbis, both of whom begged off.   So the "trans rabbi" is good enough to pinch-hit when you can't find anybody else to do it, but she wasn't the first choice.   Nice. 

To be fair, maybe Charlotte asked their regular rabbi first, which would be the logical choice. I assume they regularly attend synagogue, so they’d have a “regular” rabbi. When that one said no, Charlotte had to look for someone else.

[Surrealist]

On 2/24/2022 at 6:50 PM, millennium said:

It has always seemed to me that Miranda was latently in love with Carrie. I don't think it ever occurred to Carrie (maybe not even to Miranda), nor was it reciprocated in any way, but I think the emotion was there. The connection between Miranda and Carrie was different from their friendships with Samantha and Charlotte -- not on Carrie's part so much, but on Miranda's. I think it all came to a head in the scene I referenced earlier where Miranda berated Carrie for going off to Paris.   Miranda wasn't concerned about Carrie's welfare, she was jealous and desperate, to a degree that seemed to surprise even Miranda.  Carrie was slipping away, maybe for good.    I also think Miranda's unresolved feelings for Carrie are why she never found a suitable man to love. I have said elsewhere that I never believed Miranda loved Steve in the romantic sense.  I think she talked herself into settling for him.

This is spot on. Miranda has always come across as feeling a certain way toward Carrie that wasn't reciprocated.

I know there are fans who think Miranda was genuinely in love with Steve, but I never bought that. In my opinion, Miranda settled for Steve. But I also think Steve settled for Miranda. Plus they are Brady's parents so there's that obvious bond.

I'm not entirely sure how AJLT destroyed Miranda and Steve. They were never actually right for each other in the first place. Steve's a nice guy, but he was basically a manchild. Miranda was a snobby and overly judgmental person. This pairing was never going to be a forever pairing.

YMMV.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Surrealist

[Scarlett45]

On 2/24/2022 at 6:50 PM, millennium said:

Personally, I think a plausible story could have been developed in which Miranda's divergence would have seemed more natural and in keeping with SATC.   It has always seemed to me that Miranda was latently in love with Carrie.   I don't think it ever occurred to Carrie (maybe not even to Miranda), nor was it reciprocated in any way, but I think the emotion was there.    The connection between Miranda and Carrie was different from their friendships with Samantha and Charlotte -- not on Carrie's part so much, but on Miranda's.   I think it all came to a head in the scene I referenced earlier where Miranda berated Carrie for going off to Paris.   Miranda wasn't concerned about Carrie's welfare, she was jealous and desperate, to a degree that seemed to surprise even Miranda.  Carrie was slipping away, maybe for good.    I also think Miranda's unresolved feelings for Carrie are why she never found a suitable man to love.   I have said elsewhere that I never believed Miranda loved Steve in the romantic sense.  I think she talked herself into settling for him.

YMMV.  But if I were writing it, I would have used that to lay a foundation for Miranda's swerve towards an alternative lifestyle.

Very interesting! I never thought about this. 
 

I am going to ponder and take to the compare and contrast thread. 

[Surrealist]

On 4/24/2022 at 2:26 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Very interesting! I never thought about this. 
 

I am going to ponder and take to the compare and contrast thread. 

I was psyched when reading @millennium's post because my brain started cycling through all six seasons of SATC thinking about the dynamic between Carrie and Miranda. I see moments in which Miranda came across as a jealous partner with regard to Carrie. This is especially prominent when Carrie gets involved with Petrovsky.

[Insert Username]

On 2/12/2022 at 8:32 PM, buttersister said:

I can assure you that people over 70 know what a podcast is and listen to a variety of them. The people writing this are arrogant hacks.

Samantha Irby, in particular, is a disappointment.

 

Remember in SATC when they had Carrie act like she didn't know what email was and she thought that Aidan could see her when she sent it? It was like 2000 or 2001 and we are supposed to believe that a columnist in NYC was still mailing or dropping off physical copies of her writings?

[Ms Blue Jay]

That's funny.  I was just watching a King of Queens episode from the year 2000 and Carrie had to physically drop off her essay to her professor at a deadline and Doug hurt himself doing it for her.  I was in college just a few years later and we emailed everything?  I don't remember the days of physically dropping off and when it stopped, but my memory sucks.  I'm curious now.  

[Alice Mudgarden]

If this helps at all, I got my first computer with internet when I was around 17, which was in 1999. I graduated HS/started college in 2000, and we still handed in hard copies to our professors. So the email thing in SATC doesn't exactly track, but the college assignment thing in King of Queens pretty much does.

[WendyCR72]

1 hour ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

If this helps at all, I got my first computer with internet when I was around 17, which was in 1999. I graduated HS/started college in 2000, and we still handed in hard copies to our professors. So the email thing in SATC doesn't exactly track, but the college assignment thing in King of Queens pretty much does.

Doing the math, @Alice Mudgarden, I have a decade on you. (And took time off before starting college after graduating high school in '90!) So I went to college from 1991 to 1995 and, for a religious study class, the professor REQUIRED electronic submission! Mind you, this was around 1991 or 1992, so the whole computer deal was still quite new. The trouble for me is, all the computer classes to teach their use were scheduled when I had classes.

So I sat in the computer lab for hours and basically taught myself. LOL!

So, by the time SATC rolled around, computers - while still sort of a new thing/novelty - were gaining traction. So I never got why Carrie was THAT clueless!

[Alice Mudgarden]

43 minutes ago, WendyCR72 said:

Doing the math, @Alice Mudgarden, I have a decade on you. (And took time off before starting college after graduating high school in '90!) So I went to college from 1991 to 1995 and, for a religious study class, the professor REQUIRED electronic submission! Mind you, this was around 1991 or 1992, so the whole computer deal was still quite new. The trouble for me is, all the computer classes to teach their use were scheduled when I had classes.

So I sat in the computer lab for hours and basically taught myself. LOL!

So, by the time SATC rolled around, computers - while still sort of a new thing/novelty - were gaining traction. So I never got why Carrie was THAT clueless!

Carrie makes much less sense given the world she was working in. I hadn't thought about it until the post here, but she really shouldn't/wouldn't have been as clueless about stuff like email just due to her career alone. Maybe if she had been doing something else (like going to college? haha), but columnist? Makes no sense at all.

[WendyCR72]

4 minutes ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

Carrie makes much less sense given the world she was working in. I hadn't thought about it until the post here, but she really shouldn't/wouldn't have been as clueless about stuff like email just due to her career alone. Maybe if she had been doing something else (like going to college? haha), but columnist? Makes no sense at all.

Yeah, but this was a woman that screamed like a 6-year-old at freaking squirrels, so Carrie always liked to make every problem - big or small - overly dramatic.

By the way, I love the username! (Also loved grunge [AIC, Mudhoney, Soundgarden, etc.!] - which matched up to my college years. LOL!)