S02.E03: Ruminations: Big and Little Bullys

[juno]

Rue pursues a new business venture as she helps forge a friendship between Jules and Elliot. Cassie settles into a routine, while Lexi pours herself into mounting a school play. Maddy considers getting back together with Nate, and Cal finds a target.

[SeanC]

Rue's plotline this season is basically a long form version of Homer setting his high school diploma on fire and dancing around while the flames spread.

Lexi's play looks like it's going to be a full-on roast of the rest of the cast, which should be hilarious/sad.

[juno]

This episode was really good. So much going on. Didn't like Rue going off on Ali and putting herself in grave danger to feed her addictions.

Fez's interaction with Cal was hilarious. I have to admit that I really enjoyed Nate and Cal's beatdown the last two episodes.

Karma is serious on this show.

[VagueDisclaimer]

I thought that Elliot’s observation that he gets an asexual vibe from Rue hit something for me. You can be an asexual lesbian, because I definitely get the feeling that she’s romantically attracted to Jules, she definitely wants to date her, but I really have never caught any sexual chemistry between the two. From Jules side, some, but she’s a more sexual character, has always worn that freely. 

[juno]

11 minutes ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

I thought that Elliot’s observation that he gets an asexual vibe from Rue hit something for me. You can be an asexual lesbian, because I definitely get the feeling that she’s romantically attracted to Jules, she definitely wants to date her, but I really have never caught any sexual chemistry between the two. From Jules side, some, but she’s a more sexual character, has always worn that freely. 

Really enjoy Elliot this season. I think he has great chemistry with both Rue and Jules.

[Mr. R0b0t]

I love this show.  It's so extra in all the ways nothing else on tv is.  This season's soundtrack is going to make one helluva Spotify playlist.  Rue is barreling towards trouble, as is Nate.  and Cal. and Lexi.  I feel like we are really going to see Jules (Jewel, Jewel....Jewel) get hurt by Rue's deceits.  

[DiabLOL]

I’m just not getting any sexual chemistry between Jules and Rue. I think Jules and Elliot are way better suited for each other. There’s definitely a spark. Rue loves drugs. 

[aghst]

Do drug addicts dance that well?  Or have such eclectic tastes in music or did they just want to have Zendaya look cool and talented?

Cal’s backstory and timeline is confusing.  He’s a senior in high school or the same age as Nate now, around 17-18?  So he obviously gets Marsha pregnant and marries her.  Nate must have a much older sibling, because there is no way present day Cal is only 34-36?

That backstory was early 90s at the latest, before grunge, since they didn’t feature any grunge music or flannel plaids.

So it’s been 30 years, Cal is still in the closet and terrified of being found out, in 2021?  He had a strict father yet he got to do anything he wanted, including hooking up with Derek in a gay bar?  Cal may be screwed up but it would really be surprising if there are still a lot of closeted people these days.

 

Think they should go light on the breaking of the 4th wall with Rue directly addressing the camera or Lexi’s little show within a show.  Show does a good job of immersing you in the music and ambience of these characters’ lives so why pull back?

 

Rue’s business proposition makes no sense.  She tried to get Fez to front her $5k in drugs.  Then she talks the woman drug lord into fronting her $10k in drugs, something about her valedictorian friends uploading to the cloud and she can blackmail them or something!

Or will she just do all the drugs despite the woman threatening to sell her if she steals her money?

No way Rue is maintaining a 3.97 GPA unless there’s serious grade inflation going on.

Or maybe that’s why momma Bennett is so clueless about what Rue has been up to, somehow she pulls great grades despite being in a drug fog most of the time.

[Ambrosefolly]

30 minutes ago, aghst said:

Do drug addicts dance that well?  Or have such eclectic tastes in music or did they just want to have Zendaya look cool and talented?

Cal’s backstory and timeline is confusing.  He’s a senior in high school or the same age as Nate now, around 17-18?  So he obviously gets Marsha pregnant and marries her.  Nate must have a much older sibling, because there is no way present day Cal is only 34-36?

No way Rue is maintaining a 3.97 GPA unless there’s serious grade inflation going on.

There are pictures of the Jacobs family with a third son, so maybe that. Maybe whatever happened with the third kid is the reason why Nate's older brother is so messed up. 

I am bit of a Fez/Lexi shipper. While I like that it  that they are in separate storylines this episode, it looks like Ethan is going to in Lexi's play storyline. Seeing as Kat and him are on the way out, I wonder if they will try a pairing between those two. Truthfully, if they aren't going to pair Fez and Lexi, I would rather have Lexi gay. 

I don't believe Rue is maintaining a 3.97 GPA. I knew a girl in high school, very smart. She could have graduated third in the class if she wanted it, but she didn't and was a middling student. Rue has a full blown drug addiction. 

I like Elliot and am enjoying him more now there is a bond between him and Jules. I like that Jules friendship circle is moving beyond Rue. 

Edited January 24, 2022 by Ambrosefolly

[MrWhyt]

20 hours ago, aghst said:

Do drug addicts dance that well?  Or have such eclectic tastes in music or did they just want to have Zendaya look cool and talented?

I'm sure some do, it's not like addicts are a monolithic block of people who don't dance well.

Quote

Cal may be screwed up but it would really be surprising if there are still a lot of closeted people these days.

Cause things are going so well for the LGBTQ+ community nowadays.

Quote

So it’s been 30 years, Cal is still in the closet and terrified of being found out, in 2021?

perhaps he doesn't want to blow up his family.

Edited January 25, 2022 by MrWhyt

[Marley]

Of course there’s still tonnes of closeted ppl. There’s still lots of homophobic idiots out there.

Also drug addicts are humans too so just like humans some ppl can dance and some ppl can’t.

I think Rue was lying about having a good gpa. I don’t get why a Drug boss would think Rue is some genius. She was just gonna instantly trust $50K with her. Rue is gonna fuck this up too.

I feel like the show is doing too many imaginary scenes or whatever they are. I don’t remember this much in season 1. It’s kind of annoying and takes me out of the show.

I don’t like Jules so I don’t really care about her scenes with Elliot.

[mg1278]

7 hours ago, aghst said:

Cal’s backstory and timeline is confusing.  He’s a senior in high school or the same age as Nate now, around 17-18?  So he obviously gets Marsha pregnant and marries her.  Nate must have a much older sibling, because there is no way present day Cal is only 34-36?

That backstory was early 90s at the latest, before grunge, since they didn’t feature any grunge music or flannel plaids.

The music was fantastic but really confusing. With the exception of Lenny Kravitz, the music and cassette tapes put this squarely in 1988 to me. 

It left me wondering if Nate has a much older sibling. I feel like we've seen a younger brother? Assuming the current time on the show is close to actual current time, these kids would all have been born around 2000. So the back story for Cal doesn't line up at all. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I agree with Aghst about the bizarre timeline they tried to get by with.  In the Jacob’s family portrait we’ve been shown the older brother is only a couple years older than Nate, so that would put Cal under forty years old, which is really a stretch.  No way.  No matter how you cut it, I think they are asking the viewer to buy that Cal is no older than 40.  Lol  They’re also trying to explain Cal being the way he is, but it doesn’t work for me on many levels.  With him and Nate they want to portray them as really good people who are heartless monsters, through no fault of their own. 🙄 I did enjoy the music though.  It’s the best thing about the show.  I enjoyed the aftershow feature.  I won’t comment here about it, since it’s not on the episode.  

I can’t believe that I’m so bored with Rue.  The show portrays her drug use more as a hobby or an activity she chooses to engage in rather than an addiction to which she is physically bound.  I don’t enjoy seeing any more of that and I’m not sure how that’s not a disservice to those who suffer with addiction.  So, it’s not fun for me watching her drug fueled antics that are played in a comedic style.  And, I don’t even believe it anymore.  It’s like watching a child play dress up in heels while bragging how grownup they are.  She says drugs, drugs, …………too redundant.   And, the sad part is, she’ll recover fine after the fallout from her schemes. Only others will suffer.  

I finally figured out who Rue reminds me of!  Eddie Van Halen! 
 

[Ruby Red]

10 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I am bit of a Fez/Lexi shipper. While I like that it  that they are in separate storylines this episode, it looks like Ethan is going to in Lexi's play storyline. Seeing as Kat and him are on the way out, I wonder if they will try a pairing between those two. Truthfully, if they aren't going to pair Fez and Lexi, I would rather have Lexi gay. 

There are still 5 episodes left, so there is still time for more Fez and Lexi development. Ethan may seem like a safer choice for Lexi, but it wouldn't be an interesting pairing. And we already have two love triangles. Fez and Lexi have a crush on each other, I think they have potential but to also end up tragic. 

 

[juno]

21 hours ago, Mr. R0b0t said:

This season's soundtrack is going to make one helluva Spotify playlist.

I haven't stop listening to "Right Down the Line" by Gerry Rafferty. Ear worm big time.

[SunnyBeBe]

1 hour ago, juno said:

I haven't stop listening to "Right Down the Line" by Gerry Rafferty. Ear worm big time.

For me, Never Tear Us Apart by INXS.  (That was actually from the 80’s, though they were going for 90s style and times in Cal’s flashback.) I simply LOVE the intro to that song.  Actually, love the whole thing.  Tribute to Michael Hutchence, may he RIP. 

[Mr. R0b0t]

50 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

For me, Never Tear Us Apart by INXS.  (That was actually from the 80’s, though they were going for 90s style and times in Cal’s flashback.) I simply LOVE the intro to that song.  Actually, love the whole thing.  Tribute to Michael Hutchence, may he RIP. 

Such a good song.  Paloma Faith does an amazing cover of it I'm quite fond of.  The intro is just so cinematic...it's quite a piece of music.

[juno]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

For me, Never Tear Us Apart by INXS.  (That was actually from the 80’s, though they were going for 90s style and times in Cal’s flashback.) I simply LOVE the intro to that song.  Actually, love the whole thing.  Tribute to Michael Hutchence, may he RIP. 

Kick was such an amazing album. Huge loss.

[SunnyBeBe]

18 minutes ago, juno said:

Kick was such an amazing album. Huge loss.

I wonder how they select the songs.  You know, Rue and her drug issues…..maybe that song should have been hers.  Michael Hutchence had some very serious drug issues.  I thought the dance scene with young Cal and his friend was rather poignant though.  

[methodwriter85]

15 hours ago, mg1278 said:

The music was fantastic but really confusing. With the exception of Lenny Kravitz, the music and cassette tapes put this squarely in 1988 to me. 

The hair stylist in the behind the scenes said they were inspired by Brad Pitt (who wasn't a star until 1991) and Matt Damon (who wasn't a star until 1997) in terms of hairstyles.

 

I think they were trying to go with 1992 or 1993. Definitely the first half of the 90's. Zak Steiner (Aaron Jacobs) was born in 1995 so I'm assuming that means Aaron is probably a year or two older than Zak.

The "current time" of the show is likely January 2019 (we're still in the same school year of season 1 which explicitly stated that Rue was 17 and her birthdate was right after 9/11/01) so I think Nate's older brother is about 25/26. Cal, I think, was born around 1974-1975 which would place him as about mid-40's.

 

[hathgreen]

4 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I think they were trying to go with 1992 or 1993.

One of the cassettes that young Cal had in his car was Kris Kross “Totally Krossed Out” which was released spring of 1992.  

 

[mg1278]

2 hours ago, hathgreen said:

One of the cassettes that young Cal had in his car was Kris Kross “Totally Krossed Out” which was released spring of 1992.  

Oh, good catch! I wish I had paused to see what all he had. 

If they were going for 1992, I think they should have had at least one other early 90s song. Like I said, I loved the music but it also really took me out of it because it seemed like the wrong era. 

[cmfran]

One thing I've noticed about this show is how detached all the parents seem to be. Their kids say they're going somewhere, and if the parents ask where, the kids just say "out," and it's all good. It definitely didn't work that way in my household. But with stricter parents, the show wouldn't be what it is.

I really enjoyed some of the creative choices they made in this ep. And yeah, Rue and a suitcase of drugs is not going to end well. The drug boss saying she knew some "real sick people" who could disappear Rue was chilling.

[Sheenieb]

1 hour ago, cmfran said:

One thing I've noticed about this show is how detached all the parents seem to be. Their kids say they're going somewhere, and if the parents ask where, the kids just say "out," and it's all good. It definitely didn't work that way in my household. But with stricter parents, the show wouldn't be what it is.

I really enjoyed some of the creative choices they made in this ep. And yeah, Rue and a suitcase of drugs is not going to end well. The drug boss saying she knew some "real sick people" who could disappear Rue was chilling.

Oh, the parents are definitely detached. This is the second show I've watched where teens are having loud sex while their parents are home. First, it was Miranda's son on And Just Like That, now Nate and Cassie in this episode. Euphoria is the modern version of that movie KIDS, just without the HIV angle. 

I know I shouldn't be surprised considering addicts aren't known for their decision-making skills, but Rue still doesn't understand that the drug business is really a business. It's helmed by psychos who have no problem torturing and murdering you for their money or any slight. She's too used to dealing with Fezco. He's her friend and the friendly neighborhood drug dealer. Well, not so friendly to Nate, but you know. 

13 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I thought the dance scene with young Cal and his friend was rather poignant though.  

So did I. It was my favorite part of the episode. "Never Tear Us Apart" is such a beautiful song. It was an excellent choice. 

[Ambrosefolly]

58 minutes ago, Sheenieb said:

I know I shouldn't be surprised considering addicts aren't known for their decision-making skills, but Rue still doesn't understand that the drug business is really a business. It's helmed by psychos who have no problem torturing and murdering you for their money or any slight. She's too used to dealing with Fezco. He's her friend and the friendly neighborhood drug dealer. Well, not so friendly to Nate, but you know. 

Fezco giving that beat down to Nate really did show the "dealer" side to Fez as Nate calling the cops really fucked up his life. Now Ash is completely on edge to the point of killing dealers and beating Cal senseless.  When it hits the fan, I feel that Fez will try to bail her out, but I don't know if he will forgive her. 

On a side note, I did like that Ash is more preceptive than Cassie. Ash start up murdered someone and still called Cal's bluff, while Cassie turned in Fez when he dangled the possibility of her relationship with Nate being exposed. 

[aghst]

I get that Fez and Ash grew up with a "gansta" grandma, that they've kind of been bred to be aggressive and prone to violence like pit bulls.

But Ash is like 12 or 13 at most?  He may have a fierce scowl all the time but he doesn't have the strength yet to handle those guns, especially not cut a grown man's head open with the butt of that shotgun unless the man lets him.

As soon as Ash raises the rifle to hit him with the butt of the shotgun, Cal could easily grab it and take it away from him.

 

Still not sure where these kids are suppose to live.  Certainly Cal's family seems affluent, with Nate already having a pick up that could cost well over $50k.  Rue referenced classmates who had great grades and were likely headed to elite universities, didn't she?  Cal himself was suppose to go to Duke.

Yet apparently not too far from these affluent kids, you have drug dealers running little shabby convenience stores as a front.  And then you have that woman drug dealer too, where they make people strip.

Kids from rich families do drugs, get into all kinds of shenanigans.  Unlikely though that kids into all these types of extracurricular activities would also be headed towards elite universities, no matter how rich their families  -- for instance those kids on Laguna Beach, they're all from rich families but they prioritized other things than school and none of them went to any major universities, probably because they don't have money worries even without college education.

[cmfran]

19 minutes ago, aghst said:

I get that Fez and Ash grew up with a "gansta" grandma, that they've kind of been bred to be aggressive and prone to violence like pit bulls.

But Ash is like 12 or 13 at most?  He may have a fierce scowl all the time but he doesn't have the strength yet to handle those guns, especially not cut a grown man's head open with the butt of that shotgun unless the man lets him.

As soon as Ash raises the rifle to hit him with the butt of the shotgun, Cal could easily grab it and take it away from him.

 

Still not sure where these kids are suppose to live.  Certainly Cal's family seems affluent, with Nate already having a pick up that could cost well over $50k.  Rue referenced classmates who had great grades and were likely headed to elite universities, didn't she?  Cal himself was suppose to go to Duke.

Yet apparently not too far from these affluent kids, you have drug dealers running little shabby convenience stores as a front.  And then you have that woman drug dealer too, where they make people strip.

Kids from rich families do drugs, get into all kinds of shenanigans.  Unlikely though that kids into all these types of extracurricular activities would also be headed towards elite universities, no matter how rich their families  -- for instance those kids on Laguna Beach, they're all from rich families but they prioritized other things than school and none of them went to any major universities, probably because they don't have money worries even without college education.

That could be true about Ash, but I sure wouldn't want to try to find out. Not with a shotgun pointed to my head, and Fez on the other side of the room with a weapon likely in reach.

[Marley]

The thing with Rue and the suitcase full of drugs is that it’s idiotic. First I don’t buy that woman would just so easily give Rue that much drugs. Like she’s supposed to be smart about selling drugs isn’t she. Also they would never kill off Zebdaya so even if Rue fucks up nothing major will happen to her.

Also I couldn’t care less about nudity but it seems like they are just showing full on dicks because they can lol. Season 1 was a while ago so maybe I’m forgetting but I don’t remember so much penises in my face lol.

[Ambrosefolly]

On 1/25/2022 at 4:10 PM, Marley said:

The thing with Rue and the suitcase full of drugs is that it’s idiotic. First I don’t buy that woman would just so easily give Rue that much drugs. Like she’s supposed to be smart about selling drugs isn’t she. Also they would never kill off Zebdaya so even if Rue fucks up nothing major will happen to her.

Also I couldn’t care less about nudity but it seems like they are just showing full on dicks because they can lol. Season 1 was a while ago so maybe I’m forgetting but I don’t remember so much penises in my face lol.

Fez called Rue his business partner* and said he trusted her with his life. Also, the drug dealer lady probably has no qualms with selling Rue to sex slavery. 

I wonder if she will attempt to get Lexi roped into this, since Lexi is the type of person Rue described. 

*Sorry, that is what he calls Ash

Edited January 31, 2022 by Ambrosefolly

[ZeeEnnui]

I'm glad that I wasn't the only one left scratching my head about Cal's timeline. The music supervisor KILLED it with the soundtrack for his back story but those songs don't quite gel with whatever early 90s timeline they were going for. I was definitely thinking Cal's closeted origin story was taking place somewhere between 1987-89 based on the tunes. But I can buy a 1990-91 timeline if you go by Eric Dane's real life age (he's turning 50 this year). Nate must have a much older sibling who is pushing 30 and hopefully got the hell out of East Highland, and away from Cal. 

[aghst]

Nevermind by Nirvana was released in 1991.  So grunge might have been talking off but Cal might have been in too conservative a milieu to be into that "hippie/lumberjack" music.

INXS got a lot of radio play but I didn't think they were that big a deal.  But Andy Greenwald and Chris Ryan speculated on their podcast that the clearance fees to use so much INXS on this episode would cost a fortune.

[heatherchandler]

16 hours ago, ZeeEnnui said:

I'm glad that I wasn't the only one left scratching my head about Cal's timeline. The music supervisor KILLED it with the soundtrack for his back story but those songs don't quite gel with whatever early 90s timeline they were going for. I was definitely thinking Cal's closeted origin story was taking place somewhere between 1987-89 based on the tunes. But I can buy a 1990-91 timeline if you go by Eric Dane's real life age (he's turning 50 this year). Nate must have a much older sibling who is pushing 30 and hopefully got the hell out of East Highland, and away from Cal. 

I love Eric Dane.

I am younger but close-ish to Eric Dane's age and in the early 90's I listened to a lot of 80s music (including INXS) and I still do, so I can buy it being set in the early 90s but playing a lot of music from the 80s.

Edited January 26, 2022 by heatherchandler

[SunnyBeBe]

In reference to those backgrounds…….besides Nate, the rest have their background portrayed as working class, no extra money.  I was surprised to see that with Maddy and the others based on how free wheeling they are as teens.  

[methodwriter85]

5 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

I am younger but close-ish to Eric Dane's age and in the early 90's I listened to a lot of 80s music (including INXS) and I still do, so I can buy it being set in the early 90s but playing a lot of music from the 80s.

1990-1993 was a transition era. Lots of 80's influences took awhile to watch out. In any event, I'd rather the characters be listening to slightly old music than for them to be listening to music that didn't exist at the time it was supposed to be taking place.

I did think the cutoffs were a little too short for 1992-1993. By that point guys were pretty much all wearing long-ass shorts.

[Guest]

I really need to pay more attention to this show because I didn't realize until the post-show interview that the opening backstory was young Cal (and an apparently very intentional 90s flashback). I thought they were just introducing new characters, lol.

I was disturbed how much Cal's gay crush looked like Nate. The creator said this episode was intended to give the audience empathy for him and more or less make us feel bad for previously disliking him. My guy, having repressed gay desires (or a penis fetish?) does not negate child abuse and sex with minors.

Speaking of which, Jesus HBO, however ludicrous it is that these sleek, toned 24-year-olds are portraying high schoolers, at least keep it somewhat tasteful when all of your characters are supposedly minors. The uncomfortably long montages of them fucking in every position (in every episode, no less) are so incredibly creepy.

So Elliot-Rue-Jules is obviously headed towards a threesome, right? I was actually much more interested in Jules/Elliot than Rue/Elliot. I appreciate moving away from the traditional love triangle.

I could give a shit about Lexi's play. Get back to Fez flirting!

I generally find Faye to be a pointless, annoying character, but the actress' delivery of "So do you and your son like...fuck people together?" was gold, as was Fez referring to Jules as Jewel.

Kat and Ethan are painfully boring and it makes me sad because they were my favorite last season.

[Bluesky]

On 1/24/2022 at 12:20 AM, aghst said:

Do drug addicts dance that well?  Or have such eclectic tastes in music or did they just want to have Zendaya look cool and talented?

Cal’s backstory and timeline is confusing.  He’s a senior in high school or the same age as Nate now, around 17-18?  So he obviously gets Marsha pregnant and marries her.  Nate must have a much older sibling, because there is no way present day Cal is only 34-36?

That backstory was early 90s at the latest, before grunge, since they didn’t feature any grunge music or flannel plaids.

So it’s been 30 years, Cal is still in the closet and terrified of being found out, in 2021?  He had a strict father yet he got to do anything he wanted, including hooking up with Derek in a gay bar?  Cal may be screwed up but it would really be surprising if there are still a lot of closeted people these days.

 

Think they should go light on the breaking of the 4th wall with Rue directly addressing the camera or Lexi’s little show within a show.  Show does a good job of immersing you in the music and ambience of these characters’ lives so why pull back?.

I fast forwarded the dancing, such a waste of time.  
It appeared to be the 80’s when Cal was in high school.  I don’t get why he was so quick to agree to marry her.  Why would either one of them want that, it wasn’t the 50’s.   

[CynicalGirl]

On 1/26/2022 at 8:16 PM, SnarkEnthusiast said:

I was disturbed how much Cal's gay crush looked like Nate. The creator said this episode was intended to give the audience empathy for him and more or less make us feel bad for previously disliking him. My guy, having repressed gay desires (or a penis fetish?) does not negate child abuse and sex with minors.

 

I usually really like the back stories, but sorry, this one didn't really move me much or give me empathy for Cal. So he lost his true gay love when he knocked up Nate's mom and "had" to marry her. I might even understand him having down-low gay sex, but not the violence, and with trans minors. Even without the shotgun wedding, I doubt someone like him would have ever come out anyway. The man is filled with rage and self-loathing which he has passed down to at least one of his sons. Not ok.

Edited January 29, 2022 by CynicalGirl

[tennisgurl]

This show has one of the best Spotify playlist on TV now. This one also went really hard on the fantasy and backstory, but I liked it. 

[mytmo]

A bar's jukebox doesn't have only the latest songs.  INXS was pretty iconic in the 80s so I could see a bar having it on the jukebox.

[LaMatadita]

On 1/23/2022 at 8:20 PM, VagueDisclaimer said:

I thought that Elliot’s observation that he gets an asexual vibe from Rue hit something for me. You can be an asexual lesbian, because I definitely get the feeling that she’s romantically attracted to Jules, she definitely wants to date her, but I really have never caught any sexual chemistry between the two. From Jules side, some, but she’s a more sexual character, has always worn that freely.

I thought the same thing in S1 and thought it was highlighted somewhat in Jules's special episode as well. I'm glad it came up again in a more focused way. I've read some discussions about whether stone butch lesbians are asexual, and it seems to just depend on the person and how they want to define themselves? (This is definitely not an area that I am any kind of expert about, but when I get curious, I read!) Rue is also so emotionally underdeveloped and often numb (physically and emotionally) from various kinds of drugs that it's hard to even know whether she would be more into receiving pleasure if she got fully clean. I was kind of hoping they'd go for her being a nonbinary pansexual top, just because Sam Levinson seems so open to blowing things wide open, but eh, I don't think Rue's into Elliott like that.

[methodwriter85]

On 1/28/2022 at 7:27 PM, CynicalGirl said:

I usually really like the back stories, but sorry, this one didn't really move me much or give me empathy for Cal. So he lost his true gay love when he knocked up Nate's mom and "had" to marry her. I might even understand him having down-low gay sex, but not the violence, and with trans minors. Even without the shotgun wedding, I doubt someone like him would have ever come out anyway. The man is filled with rage and self-loathing which he has passed down to at least one of his sons. Not ok.

There is no way Would-Be Fraternity Boy Cal would have been open in 199-whatever. Absolutely not.  Especially at Duke in North Carolina? No way. Uh, uh. Maybe if he had planned on an ultra-liberal college. Maybe. I had one friend who was born around 1976 and he was openly gay in his fraternity in the mid/late 1990's, but he was in a NorthEast school, not Duke.

There was another dude I know who was openly bisexual at his college in the late 90's/early 2000's in Texas, but he was also the type of guy that pretty much had no problem standing up for something if he believed it was important, even if his peers didn't agree with him. Cal will never be that type of person. He's a conformist to the core.

Anyway, if they do decide to bring an adult version of Derek into the present story...Skeet Ulrich? I think he bears a decent enough resemblance to Henry Eikenberry and he's age-peers with Eric Dane.

Edited February 17, 2022 by methodwriter85

[larapu2000]

On 1/26/2022 at 9:12 PM, methodwriter85 said:

1990-1993 was a transition era. Lots of 80's influences took awhile to watch out. In any event, I'd rather the characters be listening to slightly old music than for them to be listening to music that didn't exist at the time it was supposed to be taking place.

I did think the cutoffs were a little too short for 1992-1993. By that point guys were pretty much all wearing long-ass shorts.

I'm glad everyone else was confused about the age of the kids as well.  The show SPECIFICALLY didn't reference grunge musically, and SPECIFICALLY didn't reference the 80's musically besides the INXS song, which, to be fair, was played pretty nonstop for years on pop radio, well into the 90's.  The music choices definitely has the 90210 vibe of dance beats that was popular then.

Is it strange that I sympathize with Cal's character to a degree that I was unbelievably happy that his first gay experience was lovely and positive and sweet and pure and safe?  It literally broke my heart when the pregnancy call came and everything came crashing down.  This doesn't excuse any of his asshole predilections, but they have made that character at least self aware and self reflective to a degree that I feel for him.  I grew up just a few years after him and I feel like most people my age came to terms with their sexuality and either never married a woman for cover, or divorced her and moved on into the life they were supposed to have all along.  And this is coming from a midwestern small town.  The closeted stuff just doesn't feel authentic enough to me, especially with Cal living in California.  I am enjoying his storyline, but I wonder how true to life this actually is for anyone outside the Bible Belt (especially as Cal hasn't been shown to be religious).  At this point, if he divorced his wife and told everyone he was gay, he would get well wishes from most of his friends and neighbors.

[Aim123]

On 1/25/2022 at 12:19 PM, aghst said:

Still not sure where these kids are suppose to live.  Certainly Cal's family seems affluent, with Nate already having a pick up that could cost well over $50k.  Rue referenced classmates who had great grades and were likely headed to elite universities, didn't she?  Cal himself was suppose to go to Duke.

Yet apparently not too far from these affluent kids, you have drug dealers running little shabby convenience stores as a front.  And then you have that woman drug dealer too, where they make people strip.

This was filmed in the San Fernando Valley-- and it is very much like that. Woodland Hills for instance: Million dollar homes. Drive north for 15 minutes and you will be in shabby/gangish territory/Strip Clubs (Canoga Park, Alabama St). Drive 15 minutes more north and then a little east...Knollwood Country Club Estates. This is Los Angeles County. Very weird, but definitely real. The strip club where Fez's grandmother barged into was in North Hills, 25 minutes north of Beverly Hills. The high schools on the outskirts of the Valley are rich kids and low income kids who are bussed in, all mixed together. 

Edited March 7, 2022 by Aim123
Thought of more things

[Scarlett45]

Nate does have an older brother- Nate is in the middle, and 17, I think the older brother is 23/24 (should be out of college) If Nate was born in 2001, a kid born in 1996 make sense. 
 

But no I don’t feel bad for Cal that he continues to lie to his wife and fuck MINORS and film them without their consent. If he was having an affair with another grown adult, and not filming them without their consent, he would still be an asshole (for the cheating, but not such a rotten human). 

On 1/28/2022 at 6:27 PM, CynicalGirl said:

I usually really like the back stories, but sorry, this one didn't really move me much or give me empathy for Cal. So he lost his true gay love when he knocked up Nate's mom and "had" to marry her. I might even understand him having down-low gay sex, but not the violence, and with trans minors. Even without the shotgun wedding, I doubt someone like him would have ever come out anyway. The man is filled with rage and self-loathing which he has passed down to at least one of his sons. Not ok.

I agree. What makes it sad is that I think Cal has enough moral fiber he could be a better person if he wanted. I certainly think he’s a better person than Nate. 

[Scarlett45]

On 3/4/2022 at 9:11 AM, larapu2000 said:

At this point, if he divorced his wife and told everyone he was gay, he would get well wishes from most of his friends and neighbors.

I don’t think so. If Cal was in his early 20s and did that, yes. But I think after 25yrs of marriage and kids a lot of people would condemn him for living a “lie”. There would be lots of judgement for wasting his wife’s “youth” and leaving her single in middle age. 
Also there are the financial considerations. Divorce is EXPENSIVE. Having to split the assets, the kids are grown now, (or almost) so no child custody concerns or child support, but what about all the investments? Those properties? He does not want to have to split that with his wife. 
 

Divorce for Cal now would blow his life up. He cowardly conformist that he is, he would never. 
 

I feel badly for Cassie. She’s so desperate for someone to give her a bit of emotional attention, and she picks Nate of all people. Early morning alarm to groom herself to perfection on the off chance he may notice her in public.