S11.E01: Episode 1

[CrazyMoon]

Quote

Did you ever see the movie "Where Angels go Trouble Follows" set in a girl's school run by nuns?

This is the sequel to "The Trouble With Angels" starring Hayley Mills...and I think The Trouble With Angels the better of the two films...Rosalind Russell is a standout in both...in the first she explains to Hayley Mills why she became a nun when she'd been a seamstress for a famous couturier in Paris with the goal of her own collection...she simply stated "I found something better"...

[Badger]

"Where Angels Go, Trouble Follows" was the sequel to "The Trouble with Angels" which was based on the memoirs of Jane Trahey. She was the first woman ever to own and run an advertising agency; she was the one behind the "What becomes a legend most" ads for Blackgama.  She was Rachel in the movie.

[libgirl2]

10 minutes ago, CrazyMoon said:

This is the sequel to "The Trouble With Angels" starring Hayley Mills...and I think The Trouble With Angels the better of the two films...Rosalind Russell is a standout in both...in the first she explains to Hayley Mills why she became a nun when she'd been a seamstress for a famous couturier in Paris with the goal of her own collection...she simply stated "I found something better"...

Thank you. I saw the sequel but I didn't care for it that much. Interesting note, Susan St. James is in the sequel. 

I think that line, "I found something better", sums a whole lot up and was just simple and lovely.  Rosalind Russell was perfect in the roll. 

Edited March 21, 2022 by libgirl2

[dubbel zout]

54 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

Nuns are not born wearing the veil, they're regular people who've lead regular lives for the most part.

Look at how naive Sister Frances is because she joined the order so young. Nothing wrong with that if she knew what she wanted, but having lived a bit does give you some perspective on people's problems.

[libgirl2]

10 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Look at how naive Sister Frances is because she joined the order so young. Nothing wrong with that if she knew what she wanted, but having lived a bit does give you some perspective on people's problems.

I think she has grown so much since she first appeared. 

[AZChristian]

Just re-watched parts of the episode.  Shouldn't there have been an odor of decomposing flesh in that building?  And wouldn't the baby in the flue have put off a smell of burning  (or at least hot) flesh?  And wouldn't the pillowcase that the baby was in have been burned?  Or at least had ashes on it when Matthew pulled it out?  And why was Matthew - the only person in the room with a white shirt and necktie - pulling something out from the flue?

[Rootbeer]

Just now, AZChristian said:

Just re-watched parts of the episode.  Shouldn't there have been an odor of decomposing flesh in that building?  And wouldn't the baby in the flue have put off a smell of burning  (or at least hot) flesh?  And wouldn't the pillowcase that the baby was in have been burned?  Or at least had ashes on it when Matthew pulled it out?  And why was Matthew - the only person in the room with a white shirt and necktie - pulling something out from the flue?

By the time the bodies were found, the babies had long since decomposed, but, there should've been an odor of decay for weeks to months after their births.  The only thing I can figure with the fireplace is that no one used it.  Of course, the woman and her mother, knowing the body was there, would've known why it couldn't be used.  Maybe they boarded it up and told the new tenants that the chimney was blocked?  My grandparents had an old fireplace in their living room that didn't work and they just covered and painted the opening.

I presume Matthew was removing the body because he was owner of the building and because this was the 1960's and police procedures were a little less rigorous.

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Just re-watched parts of the episode.  Shouldn't there have been an odor of decomposing flesh in that building?  And wouldn't the baby in the flue have put off a smell of burning  (or at least hot) flesh?  And wouldn't the pillowcase that the baby was in have been burned?  Or at least had ashes on it when Matthew pulled it out?  And why was Matthew - the only person in the room with a white shirt and necktie - pulling something out from the flue?

That part was drama. I'm not sure about the rest. 

[EllaWycliffe]

4 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Just re-watched parts of the episode.  Shouldn't there have been an odor of decomposing flesh in that building?  And wouldn't the baby in the flue have put off a smell of burning  (or at least hot) flesh?

Fair point but, not to be too graphic, they're small bodies and odors fade. You can cover up the odor and it will go away... like in that story, A Rose For Emily, by William Faulkner. 

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Fair point but, not to be too graphic, they're small bodies and odors fade. You can cover up the odor and it will go away... like in that story, A Rose For Emily, by William Faulkner. 

that did cross my mind. 

[susannah]

1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

Well, soccer fans take the sport very seriously! 

Did you ever see the movie "Where Angels go Trouble Follows" set in a girl's school run by nuns?

  Hide contents

The biggest trouble maker ends up becoming a nun. 

 

There were two movies, the first one I believe was "the Trouble with Angels,", and the one you mention was a sequel. I have the first one and have seen it several times. It bugs me though that Mary never seemed to embrace any theology or exhibit any calling. It seemed to me that she made that decision because she really didn't have anywhere else to go. She had no family except for her womanizing uncle, and no ambitions that were ever mentioned. I really would like to have Sr Hilda's backstory, what made her choose a different path. How old does anyone think she is?

8 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Fair point but, not to be too graphic, they're small bodies and odors fade. You can cover up the odor and it will go away... like in that story, A Rose For Emily, by William Faulkner. 

Oh my God, I read that in high school and am still traumatized by it!

[libgirl2]

Just now, susannah said:

There were two movies, the first one I believe was "the Trouble with Angels,", and the one you mention was a sequel. I have the first one and have seen it several times. It bugs me though that Mary never seemed to embrace any theology or exhibit any calling. It seemed to me that she made that decision because she really didn't have anywhere else to go. She had no family except for her womanizing uncle, and no ambitions that were ever mentioned. I really would like to have Sr Hilda's backstory, what made her choose a different path. How old does anyone think she is?

Yes, I don't know why I got the titles mixed up as I only saw the sequel maybe twice in my life. As for Mary, there were things we didn't see but I recall her watching the nuns in church and something must have drawn her to the peace that faith could give her. Who knows? 

As for Sister Hilda, I would say she is in her late 40s. I would love to know more about her, more about Sr. Frances too. 

[EllaWycliffe]

6 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

that did cross my mind. 

I admit, while I suspect it's a bit much for this sort of show, I was sorta hoping the male in the equation was ALSO stuffed in the floorboards somewhere. Unlike the poor schmuck in A Rose For Emily, the doer in this case seemed to deserve it. 

[dubbel zout]

22 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

I think she has grown so much since she first appeared. 

That's been really fun to watch. I also like that Sister Frances is actively trying to learn more about what's going on in the world.

12 minutes ago, Rootbeer said:

I presume Matthew was removing the body because he was owner of the building and because this was the 1960's and police procedures were a little less rigorous.

Not to mention the actor is a regular now, and they have to give him something to do.

[susannah]

1 hour ago, libgirl2 said:

Maybe those are some of the best nuns. Just because a  person is fun loving and has seen it all, doesn't mean they don't love God more than themselves. 

I'm not Catholic, so have no irons in the fire of Catholic belief, but I have never understood why women can't love God and serve whoever, without cloistering themselves, if not literally as many have, then mentally. I know the rationalization is that "worldly" things, and marriage and children, etc get in the way of serving God, but millions of people are Catholics, and do have regular lives, and families, and love God. It seems to me that the convent is a way to avoid the pain and struggles of regular life and relationships. It was fun to watch Sr Hilda describe smoking, and back in the day people smoked in many places it wasn't appropriate to, but I don't want to see the show demonize smokers. Alcohol has killed and maimed and ruined many millions more lives than smoking ever has, and no one blinks an eye, even having Timothy have a drink at the mob guy's apartment.

[EllaWycliffe]

4 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Not to mention the actor is a regular now, and they have to give him something to do.

I didn't notice this but that strongly suggests he might "be the one" for Trixie. 

[Cetacean]

21 minutes ago, susannah said:

Alcohol has killed and maimed and ruined many millions more lives than smoking ever has, and no one blinks an eye, even having Timothy have a drink at the mob guy's apartment.

I would have to challenge that statement.  According to the FDA in 2021:   In fact, tobacco use remains the leading preventable cause of disease and death in the United States, leading to more than 480,000 deaths each year. 

Back then, in large Catholic families, at least one of the kids was expected to enter religious life as either a priest or a nun.  I doubt many of them lasted long though.

[Badger]

8 minutes ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I didn't notice this but that strongly suggests he might "be the one" for Trixie. 

He's been a regular from his first episode.  Oddly enough the only other male character with that distinction on the show is Fred Buckle (Cliff Parisi).  Most of the other male regulars didn't get main cast status for several episodes; Reggie and Cyril were on the show for a few series before they made the main cast.  

Yes, I am that person who never misses the opening and/or closing credits of any movie or television show I'm watching.  

[dubbel zout]

19 minutes ago, Badger said:

Oddly enough the only other male character with that distinction on the show is Fred Buckle (Cliff Parisi). 

Don't forget Dr. Turner (Stephen McGann)!

[Blackie]

The pacing of this show was better, not the manic edits of the past numerous seasons. Seemed more like an episode in the first 3 years where they allowed stories to develop. Now on saying that, it seemed like they did cut some scenes from the Colette story. It seemed like something was missing, Colette is lethargic and next thing we know Nancy is telling her that she is her mom. Now this is a story line they could have played out of a few episodes!!  Anyways I hope that this means they will be better editing this season.

 

Helen George looked exhausted.

[Daff]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

I'm not a Eurovision fan but I know of it, despite being American, and I have to admit, I had no idea it was so old of an event, but apparently it started in 1956.

What was the basic premise? Sounded like a pop music contest, only televised? How did it square with American Bandstand, for example (some kind of vote at the end, but really, not a cliffhanger of a highlight). I understand that at that time, music was pretty much relegated to the radio airwaves (lived many of my formative years with AM, so FM was manna), so I assume Britain had AM stations playing the “Top 40”, as in America (as far as I know, only American and British musicians-few, or none from other parts of Europe). Was the attraction to SEE the artists? Here, we also had pop musicians showing up on TV varieties (like “Ed Sullivan”-that was where The Beatles debuted in America-watched it in my PJs, at, like 6 or 7 years old). How quickly did popular music move from radio to TV in Britain? Seemed pretty fast here. The variety shows quickly became popular on TV, and would include comedy skits as well as a variety of musical numbers (all genres). “Contests” came along, but more along the lines of “quiz” and game shows. Just curious because it sounds like a precursor to the “idol, masked, contorted, disguised voice, sing while standing on head, or whatever,” singing competitions we see now (never watched a one of them). But apparently, they do draw viewership.  If so, those producers/developers were ahead of times, no?

[One Imaginary Girl]

28 minutes ago, Badger said:

Yes, I am that person who never misses the opening and/or closing credits of any movie or television show I'm watching.  

Me, too, for the most part (I hated the opening of Orange Is the New Black so had to skip that). It's a shame how often the end credits are rushed or compressed nowadays. Anyhow, I was looking at IMDB recently and only just then discovered that Reggie's last name is Jackson, which is amusing to someone old enough to remember Mr. October.

[CrazyMoon]

Back to the chicken pox...in that era being exposed or doing the exposing was just another day. Parents used to have 'chicken pox parties' around the neighborhood when one kid caught them...so they'd just catch them and be done with it...The Turner kids all having them at once was aggravatingly common. My sister brought all the usual childhood diseases home in kindergarten & first grade so I had everything except one kind of measles before I started school in the late 50s. No one thought a thing about it...When the kid up the street had complications from the measles and subsequently died, we thought it a very rare and tragic thing. His siblings sailed right on thru them.

[EllaWycliffe]

1 minute ago, Blackie said:

Helen George looked exhausted.

Is she pregnant again? Do I have to be all "No Trixie! Alcohol is bad for baby!"?

And as an aside, could they just give up the ghost on "Trixie is an alcoholic but no one but Sr. Julienne knows its so secret!"?

[dubbel zout]

Eurovision.

1 minute ago, EllaWycliffe said:

13 minutes ago, Blackie said:

Helen George looked exhausted.

Is she pregnant again? Do I have to be all "No Trixie! Alcohol is bad for baby!"?

She was pregnant for most of this season; she's had her baby.

[EllaWycliffe]

Just now, dubbel zout said:

She was pregnant for most of this season; she's had her baby.

So she'll be hiding behind counters, or off to rehab, or perhaps kidnapped by aliens a la Agent Scully, I understand. ;)

 

[CrazyMoon]

8 minutes ago, One Imaginary Girl said:

 Anyhow, I was looking at IMDB recently and only just then discovered that Reggie's last name is Jackson, which is amusing to someone old enough to remember Mr. October.

Ugh..."Mr. October" my Aunt Fanny...yet they conveniently leave out the '72 post season where he spent the World Series in the dugout on crutches because of a torn hamstring. Oakland won the World Series without him...his title should be "Greatest Hot Dog of All Time"...The '72 series between Oakland & Cincinnati remains one of the best ever played. 

[susannah]

47 minutes ago, Cetacean said:

I would have to challenge that statement.  According to the FDA in 2021:   In fact, tobacco use remains the leading preventable cause of disease and death in the United States, leading to more than 480,000 deaths each year. 

Back then, in large Catholic families, at least one of the kids was expected to enter religious life as either a priest or a nun.  I doubt many of them lasted long though.

Tobacco doesn't cause road deaths and injuries, exacerbate child and spouse abuse, poverty, inability to keep jobs/homelessness, or spur criminal activity.

[caitmcg]

50 minutes ago, Daff said:

What was the basic premise? Sounded like a pop music contest, only televised? How did it square with American Bandstand, for example (some kind of vote at the end, but really, not a cliffhanger of a highlight). I understand that at that time, music was pretty much relegated to the radio airwaves (lived many of my formative years with AM, so FM was manna), so I assume Britain had AM stations playing the “Top 40”, as in America (as far as I know, only American and British musicians-few, or none from other parts of Europe). Was the attraction to SEE the artists? Here, we also had pop musicians showing up on TV varieties (like “Ed Sullivan”-that was where The Beatles debuted in America-watched it in my PJs, at, like 6 or 7 years old). How quickly did popular music move from radio to TV in Britain? Seemed pretty fast here. The variety shows quickly became popular on TV, and would include comedy skits as well as a variety of musical numbers (all genres). “Contests” came along, but more along the lines of “quiz” and game shows. Just curious because it sounds like a precursor to the “idol, masked, contorted, disguised voice, sing while standing on head, or whatever,” singing competitions we see now (never watched a one of them). But apparently, they do draw viewership.  If so, those producers/developers were ahead of times, no?

Eurovision is an international (European, obviously) music competition where acts representing the different countries vie. 

[purist]

1 hour ago, Daff said:

What was the basic premise? Sounded like a pop music contest, only televised?

Eurovision is so much more than that! I have to say it amuses me that so many Americans are unaware of one of the biggest music events in the world, which has been running since 1956 and pulls in over 200 million viewers worldwide every year. (I'm Australian, and a lot of us LOVE Eurovision.) Here is a good explainer from 2016.

[Blackie]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

She was pregnant for most of this season; she's had her baby.

 

I knew she recently had a baby, so assumed she was pregnant. Still she looked exhausted, not all pregnant women look exhausted.

All I know about Eurovision from Canada is Abba and Celine Dion competed for France (may have won?)

[caitmcg]

6 minutes ago, Blackie said:

All I know about Eurovision from Canada is Abba and Celine Dion competed for France (may have won?)

ABBA won for Sweden, Celine Dion won for Switzerland. I’ve actually never watched Eurovision, I guess I’ve just absorbed some facts by cultural osmosis!

[howiveaddict]

6 hours ago, CrazyMoon said:

This is the sequel to "The Trouble With Angels" starring Hayley Mills...and I think The Trouble With Angels the better of the two films...Rosalind Russell is a standout in both...in the first she explains to Hayley Mills why she became a nun when she'd been a seamstress for a famous couturier in Paris with the goal of her own collection...she simply stated "I found something better"...

Love the Trouble with Angels. One of my favorite movies.  Just looked up the book .  It's mega bucks on Amazon. Like 99 dollars for paperback!

[MissLucas]

4 hours ago, susannah said:

It seems to me that the convent is a way to avoid the pain and struggles of regular life and relationships. 

Believe me a convent is not a place where you can hide from anything or avoid whatever pain human nature brings along - quite the contrary. If you want to hide from the world a convent is not the place for you - this actually something I know convents are very wary of when somebody shows up on their door nowadays. That's not the mindset that will get through contemplative life even if looks like it on the surface. It's not all Black Narcissus but it's also not Sister Act (or Call the Midwife for that matter). 

[LadyChaos]

I don't know what it is, but I don't really like Violet anymore.....or Sister Monica Joan.

And that Sergeant looks more like it belongs to the 1980's instead of 1960's.

Edited March 22, 2022 by LadyChaos

[anna0852]

50 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

I don't know what it is, but I don't really like Violet anymore.....or Sister Monica Joan.

Violet comes across as really stuck up whenever her role as Counselor comes up. And she treats Fred like a child half the time.

[Badger]

7 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Don't forget Dr. Turner (Stephen McGann)!

He didn't make the main cast until the Season 1 Christmas episode.  From what I understand, he was originally supposed to be a recurring character so that is probably why.

[Badger]

3 hours ago, howiveaddict said:

Love the Trouble with Angels. One of my favorite movies.  Just looked up the book .  It's mega bucks on Amazon. Like 99 dollars for paperback!

We had the book in our school library so that's when I first read it.  I think I was half way through before I realized it was the source material for "The Trouble With Angels."  

 

[LadyChaos]

4 hours ago, anna0852 said:

Violet comes across as really stuck up whenever her role as Counselor comes up. And she treats Fred like a child half the time.

I mean.....one of the nuns is coming to talk to you and your response is: You have to call me Mrs. Buckle Counsel woman and your only allowed to talk to me on Thursday nights at the city hall....

And I'm sorry, but she was on the housing committee and knew how bad Arylands families flats were....and did nothing until she was made to?

[libgirl2]

8 hours ago, MissLucas said:

Believe me a convent is not a place where you can hide from anything or avoid whatever pain human nature brings along - quite the contrary. If you want to hide from the world a convent is not the place for you - this actually something I know convents are very wary of when somebody shows up on their door nowadays. That's not the mindset that will get through contemplative life even if looks like it on the surface. It's not all Black Narcissus but it's also not Sister Act (or Call the Midwife for that matter). 

I'm sure there are cloistered orders out there but for the most part I agree, you will be out there and you will be working. There is no hiding. 

[One Imaginary Girl]

For the Eurovision curious: it might be on Peacock in May.  I stumbled across it there last year, and it was cheesily enjoyable, although the scoring isn't comprehensible (maybe it was explained earlier during the beginning, which I missed) and the scoring segments are interminable.

[JudyObscure]

3 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I'm sure there are cloistered orders out there but for the most part I agree, you will be out there and you will be working. There is no hiding. 

Even the cloistered orders often have manual work to do.  I have total respect for all of them.  For people who truly believe in the power of prayer the cloistered orders are doing good work every day.  Sometimes a person enters a convent or monastery after having married, raised children, had jobs in all sorts of businesses, but are now widowed and decide to devote the last part of their lives seeking a closer relationship with God.  Why not?

[libgirl2]

1 minute ago, JudyObscure said:

Even the cloistered orders often have manual work to do.  I have total respect for all of them.  For people who truly believe in the power of prayer the cloistered orders are doing good work every day.  Sometimes a person enters a convent or monastery after having married, raised children, had jobs in all sorts of businesses, but are now widowed and decide to devote the last part of their lives seeking a closer relationship with God.  Why not?

I have heard of men entering the priesthood for the same reason. 

[EllaWycliffe]

4 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

I mean.....one of the nuns is coming to talk to you and your response is: You have to call me Mrs. Buckle Counsel woman and your only allowed to talk to me on Thursday nights at the city hall....

And I'm sorry, but she was on the housing committee and knew how bad Arylands families flats were....and did nothing until she was made to?

The bone I will throw Violet - because I find the whole counsel thing a bit asinine - is that its a part time job and the nuns and midwives do seem to have a habit of ignoring normal chains of communication and act like Violet is their personal bitch to drop everything she's doing at her place of business to attend whatever problem they've decided is this week's Nonnatus House project of the day in the community. It really isn't appropriate to wander into Violet's shop and demand favors and they do it a lot.

Now, Violet could tone down the whole formality routine, but she's not wrong that counsel business is rarely of an emergency nature and it does give the public the suggestion that Nonnatus House gets special favors if they can get favors and requests handled in non council time just by crossing the street and telling Violet to do whatever. 

As for how bad Aryland flats were... the entire East End was basically a squalid hell hole slowly being redone. What is Violet supposed to be doing? Yes she is on the council but there are problem buildings all around. Just weeks ago, it seems, the MAJOR issue Violet was supposed to drop everything for was the desperate need for funding for South Asian mothers to be able to attend maternity classes... which she did get some funds for, and now she's the bad guy for Matthew's tenant buildings being shitholes that SHE should have done something about?

I don't even like Violet (its an irritating oddly snooty character) but she's not Nonnatus House's personal servant on the council and she has every right to set some boundaries with them. 

 

[LadyChaos]

1 hour ago, EllaWycliffe said:

The bone I will throw Violet - because I find the whole counsel thing a bit asinine - is that its a part time job and the nuns and midwives do seem to have a habit of ignoring normal chains of communication and act like Violet is their personal bitch to drop everything she's doing at her place of business to attend whatever problem they've decided is this week's Nonnatus House project of the day in the community. It really isn't appropriate to wander into Violet's shop and demand favors and they do it a lot.

Now, Violet could tone down the whole formality routine, but she's not wrong that counsel business is rarely of an emergency nature and it does give the public the suggestion that Nonnatus House gets special favors if they can get favors and requests handled in non council time just by crossing the street and telling Violet to do whatever. 

As for how bad Aryland flats were... the entire East End was basically a squalid hell hole slowly being redone. What is Violet supposed to be doing? Yes she is on the council but there are problem buildings all around. Just weeks ago, it seems, the MAJOR issue Violet was supposed to drop everything for was the desperate need for funding for South Asian mothers to be able to attend maternity classes... which she did get some funds for, and now she's the bad guy for Matthew's tenant buildings being shitholes that SHE should have done something about?

I don't even like Violet (its an irritating oddly snooty character) but she's not Nonnatus House's personal servant on the council and she has every right to set some boundaries with them. 

 

I agree that she is not at their beck and call....but there is a difference between: I understand you have an issue, but right now we're in my business and its better we talk about this during my posted hours at the city hall. AND You may address me as Mrs. Violet Buckle councilwoman and Mrs. Buckle councilwoman gets addressed as such during her hours in her surgery. I do agree that I think the whole councilwoman thing is ridiculous but they've committed to this route with her and are turning her into a true politician.....I liked the Violet that showed compassion and understanding....except now she's more worried about the bottom line in their two stores than helping a homeless family that are homeless for no other reason than being POC.

And those buildings, as said in the show, were considered the worst of the worst of East End for decades (maybe even a century, I just watched this episode yesterday but could be wrong)...and Aryland clearly did not know how bad his Dad's buildings were so, either: The housing committee knew about the findings and the committee notified his father and his father ignored them, and the committee decided to continue ignoring the buildings OR the committee knew about the findings of how bad the buildings were...and just ignored them from the beginning. Either way, while Violet may have only been elected 2ish years ago and likely added the committee at the same time....she still knew, and the committee still did nothing to make sure Arylands Dad fixed his buildings. So that makes her just as guilty as Matthew's Dad.

Edited March 22, 2022 by LadyChaos

[EllaWycliffe]

Yeah, if Violet joined the council and the building in question has had dead babies in the walls since before the war, I don't think Violet is as guilty as Matthew's dad for the situation. 

I will be the first to say I am not extremely knowledgeable on the ins and outs of London east end politics but I don't think Violet's position is so high up that she has the power to force others to do things like fix their buildings. They can send notices and warnings but they can't put a gun to Matthew's head and force him to write checks to the repair people. 

I also genuinely don't see a Mrs Buckle getting elected to begin with but thats a whole different issue.

[susannah]

7 hours ago, libgirl2 said:

I'm sure there are cloistered orders out there but for the most part I agree, you will be out there and you will be working. There is no hiding. 

I know that nuns work, sometimes in the convent and often in the community. I wasn't referring to physical hiding.

3 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

The bone I will throw Violet - because I find the whole counsel thing a bit asinine - is that its a part time job and the nuns and midwives do seem to have a habit of ignoring normal chains of communication and act like Violet is their personal bitch to drop everything she's doing at her place of business to attend whatever problem they've decided is this week's Nonnatus House project of the day in the community. It really isn't appropriate to wander into Violet's shop and demand favors and they do it a lot.

Now, Violet could tone down the whole formality routine, but she's not wrong that counsel business is rarely of an emergency nature and it does give the public the suggestion that Nonnatus House gets special favors if they can get favors and requests handled in non council time just by crossing the street and telling Violet to do whatever. 

As for how bad Aryland flats were... the entire East End was basically a squalid hell hole slowly being redone. What is Violet supposed to be doing? Yes she is on the council but there are problem buildings all around. Just weeks ago, it seems, the MAJOR issue Violet was supposed to drop everything for was the desperate need for funding for South Asian mothers to be able to attend maternity classes... which she did get some funds for, and now she's the bad guy for Matthew's tenant buildings being shitholes that SHE should have done something about?

I don't even like Violet (its an irritating oddly snooty character) but she's not Nonnatus House's personal servant on the council and she has every right to set some boundaries with them. 

 

Well said. It is really unfair how they treat her. She is not responsible for the condition of the East End, either. I agree that she does treat Fred like a child, but that was how alot of marriages are, even today.

[libgirl2]

4 minutes ago, susannah said:

I know that nuns work, sometimes in the convent and often in the community. I wasn't referring to physical hiding.

Well said. It is really unfair how they treat her. She is not responsible for the condition of the East End, either. I agree that she does treat Fred like a child, but that was how alot of marriages are, even today.

I know what you mean and perhaps hiding is not the right word. There is no "hiding". There are orders of nuns and monks that do withdraw from the world, but if they aren't working in the community, there are for certain working in the convent or monastary. 

[dubbel zout]

I think the postulate period is there to ensure that both sides know what they're getting into, and I can't imagine sussing out someone's reasons for joining isn't examined closely. You want to be sure there's a true calling. And even then, it doesn't always work out for various reasons. In some ways I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the road Sister Frances left the order. 

[libgirl2]

3 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I think the postulate period is there to ensure that both sides know what they're getting into, and I can't imagine sussing out someone's reasons for joining isn't examined closely. You want to be sure there's a true calling. And even then, it doesn't always work out for various reasons. In some ways I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere down the road Sister Frances left the order. 

That crossed my mind earlier in the thread.