S01.E02: Behind Us, A Cliff

[tessaray]

Streaming Release Date: December 19, 2021

Thomas and Shea recruit James and some local cowboys to corral a herd of cattle. As they begin their journey, the caravan is confronted with some of the many dangers they will face along the way.

[Libby]

Well I watched the first two episodes.

I thought it was terrific. I absolutely loved it.

[NeenerNeener]

When the Union General sat down next to Dutton at the beginning of the episode I wondered where they found an actor that looked that much like Tom Hanks. Then I went over to the IMDB...

I had read about Billy Bob Thornton doing a guest appearance but I missed any Hanks announcements.

ETA: what relation was Claire to the Duttons? When James went back with the shovel he obviously knew what she was going to do, and he had no intention of stopping her.

Edited December 19, 2021 by NeenerNeener

[wlk68]

22 minutes ago, NeenerNeener said:

When the Union General sat down next to Dutton at the beginning of the episode I wondered where they found an actor that looked that much like Tom Hanks. Then I went over to the IMDB...

I had read about Billy Bob Thornton doing a guest appearance but I missed any Hanks announcements.

ETA: what relation was Claire to the Duttons? When James went back with the shovel he obviously knew what she was going to do, and he had no intention of stopping her.

I think Claire was a sister-in-law. Maybe the widow of Jim Dutton's brother or of Margaret's brother? I didn't get the sense that she was the actual blood sister of Jim or Margaret. I don't think they would've left her behind if she were.

[MzLiz]

I never did catch the relationship between Claire and the Duttons. 

I don’t know that things wouldn’t have ended the same way, but her throwing those rocks didn’t help. She likely felt responsible for her daughters death. I don’t think there was anything James or Margaret could have done to stop her. She had completely given up. The whole thing is just sad. 
 

I really like the Dutton family relationship. I think Tim McGraw is killing it. So is Faith Hill and Isobel May. 
 

it’s very well written and I can’t wait to see what happens next. 

[RedDelicious]

9 hours ago, MzLiz said:

I never did catch the relationship between Claire and the Duttons. 

She is supposed to be the sister of James Dutton, but if she is his sister, I don't know why she has his last name, unless she became Dutton again after her husband died. It doesn't make sense. IMDB credits her as Claire Dutton. It is mentioned in Episode 1 that she is Elsa's aunt, but I took Claire to be Margaret's sister, not James's.

[joliefaire]

On 12/19/2021 at 5:43 PM, NeenerNeener said:

 

ETA: what relation was Claire to the Duttons?

Its not made clear in the show, but I got the impression she was James' sister--just from his comments that she usually doesn't fix things, she makes them worse.  And then her comments about how 'James is a dreamer, he always has been.'  Then, at the end, Margaret turns and walks away, but James goes back to see Claire through to her end.  I think it would have been reversed if she was Margaret's sister.  Just my 2 cents.

[North of Eden]

Enjoying the show but was very disapointed the Claire and her daughter were killed off in the second episode. 
I found Claire one of the most interesting characters because (thought not an outright villain) characters that are shades of grey neither all good or all bad are far more engaging. I thought she had great potential but it was cut short.

In the first episode I thought it was refreshing that there was no "love interest" but then along comes the Owen Wilson wannabe  in episode 2.

Can't wait to see how they get to the opening scene in the pilot.

[mythoughtis]

I found Claire interesting. Bitchy but not without some justification. She realized from the beginning  just how difficult that journey would be but couldn’t stay in Tennessee on her own.  Then at the gravesite when she said she’d lost her husband and all seven of her children…that made me so sad. 
 

I’m not really liking the Duttons here either.  Sam Elliot and his assistant though… I like them. 

Edited December 24, 2021 by mythoughtis

[LadyIrony]

Poor Claire bringing rocks to a gun fight. I think if I were in her party I would have shot her myself, all things considered they are lucky those men didn't rape and kill the whole wagon train. I think he let her shoot herself because he could see she was more a liability than any help. She put his family at risk. 

I am surprised the German's haven't armed themselves yet. Or been handed guns. 

[ShortyMac]

52 minutes ago, LadyIrony said:

Poor Claire bringing rocks to a gun fight. I think if I were in her party I would have shot her myself, all things considered they are lucky those men didn't rape and kill the whole wagon train. I think he let her shoot herself because he could see she was more a liability than any help. She put his family at risk. 

I am surprised the German's haven't armed themselves yet. Or been handed guns. 

I agree. 
 

The German man who speaks English said that they weren’t allowed to have guns in their country. So, they don’t know how to use them. 

[LadyIrony]

12 hours ago, ShortyMac said:

I agree. 
 

The German man who speaks English said that they weren’t allowed to have guns in their country. So, they don’t know how to use them. 

True although you have to wonder how much longer it will take before one of them picks up a gun and learns. Seems the English speaking one is already thinking along those lines, the Sheriff though wasn't going to trust him with one. If the immigrants had weapons they could have protected the women better when they were left alone.

[Crashcourse]

I dozed off about halfway through, then woke up towards the end.  This ain't no Lonesome Dove, for sure.

[LadyIrony]

14 minutes ago, Crashcourse said:

I dozed off about halfway through, then woke up towards the end.  This ain't no Lonesome Dove, for sure.

I have tried watching Lonesome Dove twice and I couldn't get it into so maybe that's not a bad thing..

[Crashcourse]

1 minute ago, LadyIrony said:

I have tried watching Lonesome Dove twice and I couldn't get it into so maybe that's not a bad thing..

Yep, differing opinions and all. 😉

[blackwing]

On 12/23/2021 at 8:05 PM, mythoughtis said:

I found Claire interesting. Bitchy but not without some justification. She realized from the beginning  just how difficult that journey would be but couldn’t stay in Tennessee on her own.  Then at the gravesite when she said she’d lost her husband and all seven of her children…that made me so sad. 

I thought she was an interesting character only in that she had absolutely no redeeming qualities.  She was nasty to Margaret, she was nasty to Elsa.  Her daughter was equally nasty.  Particularly the daughter... who does she think she is talking to her aunt Margaret that way?

I get that her husband died and that's unfortunate.  But nobody forced her to go on the trip, as Margaret reminded her.  She chose to go because she thought she didn't have any choice.  Her brother was leaving Tennessee.  As a widow (that he was likely supporting), she didn't think she could survive without him.  Which I kind of disagree with... couldn't she have found work as a governess in Tennessee?  Or some other kind of work?  Schoolteacher?

I was prepared to be stuck with this odious woman and this odious daughter for the whole series.  So I was not sad to see her dispatched so quickly.  Her smart mouth got her daughter killed.  I get that she had a tough lot in life, but she was not a kind person.  She at least could have treated her family better instead of constantly being a bitter harridan.

I'm trying to figure out why this actress would have agreed to this role.  I suppose work is work, but this character was a complete beeyotch to everyone around her.  She wasn't even a good villain, and she died after two episodes.

[rebel2u]

FFS, can't any non-Southerner do a Southern accent without sounding like an idiot?

(I'm looking at you, Isabel May aka Elsa Dutton.)

Even Faith Hill. who hails from Mississippi. doesn't sound like she has honey dripping out of her mouth like you do and you're from California!

Where are the Duttons supposed to be from, anyway?  Their accents are all over the map.

Edited January 24, 2022 by rebel2u

[rebel2u]

Probably been said before, but I would have NEVER recognized Faith Hill without the show's credits. 

[millennium]

I liked this, aside from the improbable Elsa herding cattle in a pretty blue dress that finished the day without attracting even a speck of dust.   Also doubting Tim McGraw failing to notice the cowboy intent on deflowering his daughter.

[LadyIrony]

On 1/12/2022 at 8:35 AM, blackwing said:

I thought she was an interesting character only in that she had absolutely no redeeming qualities.  She was nasty to Margaret, she was nasty to Elsa.  Her daughter was equally nasty.  Particularly the daughter... who does she think she is talking to her aunt Margaret that way?

I get that her husband died and that's unfortunate.  But nobody forced her to go on the trip, as Margaret reminded her.  She chose to go because she thought she didn't have any choice.  Her brother was leaving Tennessee.  As a widow (that he was likely supporting), she didn't think she could survive without him.  Which I kind of disagree with... couldn't she have found work as a governess in Tennessee?  Or some other kind of work?  Schoolteacher?

I was prepared to be stuck with this odious woman and this odious daughter for the whole series.  So I was not sad to see her dispatched so quickly.  Her smart mouth got her daughter killed.  I get that she had a tough lot in life, but she was not a kind person.  She at least could have treated her family better instead of constantly being a bitter harridan.

I'm trying to figure out why this actress would have agreed to this role.  I suppose work is work, but this character was a complete beeyotch to everyone around her.  She wasn't even a good villain, and she died after two episodes.

I wasn't sad to see her go either. I am sure a woman of her age would have been able to find work easily but her demeanor would have let her down. It certainly would have put off any older men seeking a wife which would have been another option for her. 

You would think that given her tough life she would have known when to just shut up though. She mouthed off to a bunch of men who just wanted to water their horses then threw a rock at them. I guess she had enough of being pushed around but those men could have killed everyone. Maybe she was hoping for that outcome.

I don't think she was intended as a villain. More like a plot device to show how tough it all was and to spark a small conflict early on in the journey.

17 hours ago, rebel2u said:

FFS, can't any non-Southerner do a Southern accent without sounding like an idiot?

(I'm looking at you, Isabel May aka Elsa Dutton.)

Even Faith Hill. who hails from Mississippi. doesn't sound like she has honey dripping out of her mouth like you do and you're from California!

Where are the Duttons supposed to be from, anyway?  Their accents are all over the map.

I find that to be a common detail that gets missed in TV shows in general. If everyone is immediate kin than why do they have different accents? You'd think that someone would consider that and make them all speak with the same accent.

 

12 hours ago, millennium said:

I liked this, aside from the improbable Elsa herding cattle in a pretty blue dress that finished the day without attracting even a speck of dust.   Also doubting Tim McGraw failing to notice the cowboy intent on deflowering his daughter.

I find that to be a huge disappointment of the show. It seems mostly authentic then we get Rodeo Barbie thrown in to appease the usual suspects. I also think a father, especially back then would be a lot more protective of his pretty daughter. The parents seem to give her a lot of freedom which I don't think would have happened.

[millennium]

On 1/23/2022 at 8:36 PM, rebel2u said:

FFS, can't any non-Southerner do a Southern accent without sounding like an idiot?

(I'm looking at you, Isabel May aka Elsa Dutton.)

Her voiceover at the start of each episode grates for two reasons -- the labored accent and what seems to be the actress's attempt to sound more mature.   It's not the voice of the girl in main story (the voice is lower, the accent thicker), but at the same time it doesn't sound like an older woman either.   It sounds like a voice from a high school production of a Tennessee Williams play.

[millennium]

P.S.  Just wanted to add, I thought Billy Bob Thornton's performance in this episode was chilling.   I'd watch a show about that sheriff.

[MaggieG]

My husband and I are late catching up on this but after watching this episode I mentioned that Beth Dutton must have gotten her sparkly personality from her great-great-great aunt Claire.

[blackwing]

3 hours ago, MaggieG said:

My husband and I are late catching up on this but after watching this episode I mentioned that Beth Dutton must have gotten her sparkly personality from her great-great-great aunt Claire.

I suspect we will eventually learn that Beth is a direct descendant of Elsa.  There are flashes of Beth in Elsa.  I don't think Beth is anything at all like Claire.  Claire was a bitter harridan.  She was mad at the world and mad at life because her husband died.  She had nothing nice to say to anybody, she complained about everyone and everything, and didn't show an ounce of gratitude to her brother for taking care of her.  She was basically a useless mooch.  She didn't bring anything to the family except arguments and nastiness. 

On the other hand, while I agree that Beth can be nasty, she contributes immensely to her family.  Her entire raison d'etre is to protect the interests of her family.  She will do anything to advance and protect their interests.  There is a purpose and reason behind everything Beth says and does, whereas Claire seemed to complain purely for the sake of complaining.

[Affogato]

On 1/11/2022 at 4:35 PM, blackwing said:

I thought she was an interesting character only in that she had absolutely no redeeming qualities.  She was nasty to Margaret, she was nasty to Elsa.  Her daughter was equally nasty.  Particularly the daughter... who does she think she is talking to her aunt Margaret that way?

I get that her husband died and that's unfortunate.  But nobody forced her to go on the trip, as Margaret reminded her.  She chose to go because she thought she didn't have any choice.  Her brother was leaving Tennessee.  As a widow (that he was likely supporting), she didn't think she could survive without him.  Which I kind of disagree with... couldn't she have found work as a governess in Tennessee?  Or some other kind of work?  Schoolteacher?

I was prepared to be stuck with this odious woman and this odious daughter for the whole series.  So I was not sad to see her dispatched so quickly.  Her smart mouth got her daughter killed.  I get that she had a tough lot in life, but she was not a kind person.  She at least could have treated her family better instead of constantly being a bitter harridan.

I'm trying to figure out why this actress would have agreed to this role.  I suppose work is work, but this character was a complete beeyotch to everyone around her.  She wasn't even a good villain, and she died after two episodes.

In trauma informed trainings they suggest you ask not ‘what is wrong with you’ but rather ‘what happened to you’. 

claire is traumatised by the loss of her children and afraid of being abandoned by her only remaining family. 
 

[Sunnykm]

grouchy, cranky, mean people are often in pain.  Agree with Affogato about asking what is hurting you?  What is causing you pain?

[blackwing]

On 2/5/2022 at 7:19 AM, Affogato said:

In trauma informed trainings they suggest you ask not ‘what is wrong with you’ but rather ‘what happened to you’. 

claire is traumatised by the loss of her children and afraid of being abandoned by her only remaining family. 
 

 

23 hours ago, Sunnykm said:

grouchy, cranky, mean people are often in pain.  Agree with Affogato about asking what is hurting you?  What is causing you pain?

It’s not like she’s a mysterious character with a secret that they needed to uncover.  She was a sister/aunt to the Duttons.  They were obviously well aware of what happened to her husband and her other children.

We the viewers didn’t learn until later on what happened to her children, but this was something that Margaret and the others would have known.  In looking back at the first episode and the interactions between Claire and the others (particularly Margaret and Elsa) it does make more sense the way they treat her.  She is nasty to them, and they don’t argue back at her, because they know she is in pain.

This explains why they put up with her sharp tongue.  It seems to me that they were just tired of dealing with her, but she is family, so they are stuck with her.  This would also explain why nobody bothered to stop her from killing herself when it was clear what she was going to do.  It was the best end result for all of them. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Finally watching this.
 

 The actress who plays Elsa resembles Hayden Panettiere so much that I find it distracting. Lol  I do find Elsa’s narration a bit over the top.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hayden_Panettiere

[Josh371982]

On 12/19/2021 at 6:14 PM, wlk68 said:

I think Claire was a sister-in-law. Maybe the widow of Jim Dutton's brother or of Margaret's brother? I didn't get the sense that she was the actual blood sister of Jim or Margaret. I don't think they would've left her behind if she were.

All I know is Elsa called her Aunt. Same with not knowing if she was sister to James or Maraget 

[LadyIrony]

On 1/26/2022 at 11:23 AM, millennium said:

Her voiceover at the start of each episode grates for two reasons -- the labored accent and what seems to be the actress's attempt to sound more mature.   It's not the voice of the girl in main story (the voice is lower, the accent thicker), but at the same time it doesn't sound like an older woman either.   It sounds like a voice from a high school production of a Tennessee Williams play.

To me it was an attempt to sound poetic or whimsical. Prairie Barbie is a bit like that, not a good poet as such but has all the pretentious of one. 

[Dowel Jones]

I'm chiming in here at the start of the restart, having not watched it on streaming.  I actually liked the writing that Elsa is voicing, however unauthentic her voice may be.  It had some quite lyrical moments.

The Duttons are from Tennessee.  The Germans likely got off the ship somewhere around New York or perhaps the upper South.  Why in the world would they end up in Fort Worth Texas, if they wanted to migrate anywhere up north?

Something of an editing mistake, I think, on Dutton's facial hair.  He gets it shaved down to a rough goatee in Fort Worth, but then, a few days later, his beard is full when they're out chasing cattle.  Yet, he has a goatee when they arrive back in camp.

[Mr. Miner]

It was touching that the Union officer (Tom Hanks)was showing Dutton compassion. Then he threw him in a Union prison for three years. 

[Chickabiddy]

I am late to the game with this show. Just wanted to add that the German immigrants dress more like Eastern Europeans and are probably Volga Germans. Catherine The Great, herself German born, invited large groups of Germans to settle along the Volga river. They left because the freedoms promised under Catherine were curtailed - hence no gun ownership. Volga Germans settled from Texas across the  Great Plains up to Canada. And they may have actually arrived in New Orleans. New Orleans was the second largest port of immigration after New York. The city has the same mix of Italian, German and Irish ethnic groups.  Fun fact: a true New Orleans city accent sounds a lot more like Brooklyn than southern, Cajun, or anything else. And a  of times, unscrupulous ship captains, would  just dump immigrants in New Orleans and tell them it was New York. And the immigrants didn’t know New York from New Orleans