S01.E05: Blood Calls Blood

[paulvdb]

Quote

Perrin and Egwene run into a familiar face. Mat and Rand see strange ones. Moiraine and Lan mourn their loss.

Premiere date: December 3, 2021 (or December 2 depending on your time zone).

[Kate47]

Whew, this episode was jam packed and each episode gets better. Side note, I think the rooms in Tar Valon are beautiful but would probably give me nausea if I had to stay in them for any length of time.

[Humbugged]

“May you shelter in the palm of the Creator's hand, and may the last embrace of the mother welcome you home.”

 

[Zonk]

In every scene with Mat I was screaming at the screen "It's the knife you dumbasses!" Man these people really can't put two and two together, can they? How long are they going to drag this out? Because I'm already so bored with it. We've seen the other two guys channel. They show no sign of madness. We know they aren't going to go mad, probably because they are all the dragon and the last dragon was released from the madness by the dark one.

 

At the other troup: Maybe next time if a religious lunatic captures you, is going to kill you and you manage to overpower him, you don't just stab him in the shoulder once. You continue stabbing him until he's dead, because otherwise he'll come back in the season finale and almost kill you again. Or a worse case scenario, he'll become recurring and is actually going to kill one of you in the back end of the final season.

But the meta aside, it's a duuuuumb move not to kill that guy.

 

Lan should have offered Stepin a trial run for that whole being with a man thing. He might have liked it. 😉

 

Speaking off those two, showing us the tea package was a bit overkill. Yeah, I got that Stepin druged Lan with the tea he got from Nynaeve, when Lan woke up on the floor with the tea cup in his hand. There is such a thing as hammering something a bit too much.

 

Red bitch keeps doing red bitch things for seemingly no reason. I really don't get her motivation behind acting the way she does.

 

I do really love this show, but it's another case of a show with a connected narrative that would work way better if you could binge a whole season, since there are no contained stories in the episodes. It's all one long story without any real stoping point, basically a long movie. I might have to hold off on this one and watch it once the whole season is released. We'll see if I have that kind of willpower.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Zonk

[Anduin]

4 hours ago, Zonk said:

In every scene with Mat I was screaming at the screen "It's the knife you dumbasses!" Man these people really can't put two and two together, can they? How long are they going to drag this out? Because I'm already so bored with it. We've seen the other two guys channel. They show no sign of madness. We know they aren't going to go mad, probably because they are all the dragon and the last dragon was released from the madness by the dark one.

I do really love this show, but it's another case of a show with a connected narrative that would work way better if you could binge a whole season, since there are no contained stories in the episodes. It's all one long story without any real stoping point, basically a long movie. I might have to hold off on this one and watch it once the whole season is released. We'll see if I have that kind of willpower.

I don't think the others know about the knife, and Mat isn't exactly thinking clearly. And I prefer a break between episodes. Gives me time to digest and anticipate.

However, this ep was very hard to watch. Religious fanatics may be my least favourite trope. It's the kind of people who are looking for a reason to be sadistic monsters and like to blame it on religion, rather than any real belief. And I'm not even religious. I just hate hypocrisy. Being devoured by wolves is a fitting fate.

That said, I liked the rest of it. Loial is interesting, though his name is infringing on Malazan territory. :) He sounded like a combination of Treebeard and Teal'c. Big fan of other kinds of beings. Modrons, Khajiit, your type 2 orc, dwarves, and so on.

I'm wondering what will happen if Nynaeve rejects any Aes Sedai training at all. Okay, she probably won't. But would she drift into a support role for the others? Head back home? Are you allowed to reject the Aes Sedai and stay alive? They strike me as the type not to accept rejection.

I hope we see the Tuatha'an again. They seem nice and relaxing, compared to everyone else being tense and jumping to the point. However, I suspect that the Whitecloaks killed them all for sheltering the others.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Anduin

[Humbugged]

7 minutes ago, Anduin said:

I don't think the others know about the knife, and Mat isn't exactly thinking clearly. And I prefer a break between episodes. Gives me time to digest and anticipate.

However, this ep was very hard to watch. Religious fanatics may be my least favourite trope. It's the kind of people who are looking for a reason to be sadistic monsters and like to blame it on religion, rather than any real belief. And I'm not even religious. I just hate hypocrisy.

That said, I liked the rest of it. Loial is interesting, though his name is infringing on Malazan territory. :) He sounded like a combination of Treebeard and Teal'c. Big fan of other kinds of beings. Modrons, Khajiit, your type 2 orc, dwarves, and so on.

I'm wondering what will happen if Nynaeve rejects any Aes Sedai training at all. Okay, she probably won't. But would she drift into a support role for the others? Head back home? Are you allowed to reject the Aes Sedai and stay alive? They strike me as the type not to accept rejection.

I hope we see the Tuatha'an again. They seem nice and relaxing, compared to everyone else being tense and jumping to the point. However, I suspect that the Whitecloaks killed them all for sheltering the others.

Apart from Treebeard/the Dwarves (possibly the Forgotten Realms ) stuff Jordan was there first

[Anduin]

14 minutes ago, Humbugged said:

Apart from Treebeard/the Dwarves (possibly the Forgotten Realms ) stuff Jordan was there first

Wait, there are robots and cat people in the series?

[Zonk]

24 minutes ago, Anduin said:

I don't think the others know about the knife, and Mat isn't exactly thinking clearly.

Rand has seen it. Should be pretty obvious that it's something that doesn't belong to Mat and that is potentially dangerous.

25 minutes ago, Anduin said:

And I prefer a break between episodes. Gives me time to digest and anticipate.

And if it was released all at once, you could just pace yourself.

I personally think a continous story doesn't benefit from artificial week long breaks.

[GustavMahler]

I for one have a difficult time understanding what the heck the actor portraying Mat is saying. With his mumbling and thick as molasses tone, the simplest words are lost to me.

[Humbugged]

57 minutes ago, Anduin said:

Wait, there are robots and cat people in the series?

no    -     lol

[Anduin]

4 minutes ago, Humbugged said:

no    -     lol

So you're saying that Jordan was the first one to do different fantasy races that weren't just Tolkien knockoffs? See Raymond Feist as an example.

[paigow]

The Alpha Wolf should be named Baxter... he communicates so much information with a few barks to other species...

[Humbugged]

32 minutes ago, Anduin said:

So you're saying that Jordan was the first one to do different fantasy races that weren't just Tolkien knockoffs? See Raymond Feist as an example.

No Elves,Serpentmen, Dwarves or dragons in these books

[paigow]

I never read the books... but guessing that Rand ends up a Warder instead of Dragon...

White Tower Rule #1: Stay inside your room, unless compelled to walk around but Stay inside the Tower, unless a friendly Ogre promises to reunite you with your Bros...

[Zonk]

29 minutes ago, paigow said:

I never read the books... but guessing that Rand ends up a Warder instead of Dragon...

I don't think so. He channeled when he broke down that ironwood door that was supposedly unbreakable, in episode three. I don't think magic users can be warders.

All five are channelers, that much is clear and I think they'll probably turn out all 5 to be the dragon. As per the animated shorts, the dragon threw a massive tantrum that killed him, which made that big vulcano we saw this episode. I assume he split his soul in the process.

Edited December 3, 2021 by Zonk

[Anduin]

1 hour ago, Humbugged said:

No Elves,Serpentmen, Dwarves or dragons in these books

So being the Dragon Reborn doesn't mean you can turn into an actual dragon? It's just a metaphor or something? I'm little disappointed. How can you have proper fantasy without a good dragon?

On another note, why stick blue contacts onto Rosamund Pike? Other Sedai don't have eyes the same colour as their clothes. Be interesting to see Liandrin with red eyes, though. Priyanka Bose doesn't have green contacts. That suggests that Moraine's eye colour is a relevant detail. Rand and Liandrin have blue eyes too. Could any of them be related?

[Humbugged]

23 minutes ago, Anduin said:

So being the Dragon Reborn doesn't mean you can turn into an actual dragon? It's just a metaphor or something? I'm little disappointed. How can you have proper fantasy without a good dragon?

On another note, why stick blue contacts onto Rosamund Pike? Other Sedai don't have eyes the same colour as their clothes. Be interesting to see Liandrin with red eyes, though. Priyanka Bose doesn't have green contacts. That suggests that Moraine's eye colour is a relevant detail. Rand and Liandrin have blue eyes too. Could any of them be related?

No it was just a nickname for LTT   lol

The eyes is how they are in the books, nothing more

[Danny Franks]

Blood and ashes! A genuine Wheel of Time curse! About time.

Our first look at Tar Valon and Dragonmount. And they are spectacular. And Rand thinks he's seen Dragonmount before? People will complain, again, that the city looked too clean. But do Aes Sedai seem like people who would allow their seat of power to be grubby?

I appreciated the time-skip, to account for their travelling time and the wear that it's taken. Rand looked a little rough (and with longer hair). Mat looked... half dead and he acts like it.

And we meet Loial. He... actually works. He looks okay. Not sure about the hair colour, but the rest was pretty decent, given they decided not to use CGI.

Still loving Nynaeve and her complete lack of time for Aes Sedai politicking. Headstrong and stubborn and making threats she really can't back up? That's Nynaeve. Effortlessly taking charge of Rand and reassuring him was exactly what I'd expect her to do. Zoe Robins is really killing this role, so far.

I don't know why, but I was surprised that they'd just burn Karene's body with the other fallen (I assume that they were to be burned, because those holes were not deep enough to be grave). But I loved that look between Lan and Moiraine, as they both acknowledged that her death and his despair is one, very likely future for them. Another being his death and her despair. That undercurrent ran through the whole episode, for both of them, culminating in that final scene where Lan does the job of 'Warder permitted to be emotional' and you can see the effect it has on Moiraine.

And I thought Steppin's actor did a really good job of showing a man who is just... numb. Nothing mattered any more, like he was already dead. It's a tough thing to portray, because this isn't just the grief of losing a loved one, it's absolute desolation and the deadening of the world around him.

Seeing such genuine smiles on Perrin and Egwene's faces, then seeing Valda turn up. Ugh. He and his people are bullies and sadists. Hey, at least they were just using their fists on the Tuatha'an, and not their swords. Abusing and torturing Egwene and Perrin solidifies Valda as a top tier villain. He's 100% a true believer in a twisted doctrine.

The thing is, him being happy to leave Egwene unguarded shows that he didn't really think she could channel, he just wanted to torture and kill two people he suspected had been hanging out with Aes Sedai.

The wolves that are a bit small but still look very wolfy arrived just in the nick of time! 

[paigow]

Until he actually spoke. I thought that Vincent had jumped through a wormhole...

Edited December 3, 2021 by paigow

[quarks]

6 hours ago, Anduin said:

That said, I liked the rest of it. Loial is interesting, though his name is infringing on Malazan territory. :) He sounded like a combination of Treebeard and Teal'c. Big fan of other kinds of beings. Modrons, Khajiit, your type 2 orc, dwarves, and so on.

 

Loial originally appeared in The Eye of the World in 1990. I think Treebeard was a pretty obvious inspiration for Loial, but the Malazan books first started appearing in 1999, a few years after Loial's first appearance. 

To go back to the show, I'm not entirely sure that Loial's appearance is working for me. I like the voice, though. Very rich and resonant. And I liked that he went straight to the White Tower and found Nynaeve.

Other things: I loved that the episode started and ended with funerals; it formed a nice symmetry. I also loved the various small touches here and there - like those large stones with the strange markings that Rand was looking at, the huge mountain looming over everything, and the blink-and-you'll-miss-it mention of Cairhein. And the continued glimpses of all the politics and undercurrents in the White Tower, and the way Moiraine is starting to ask if the bond can be removed. I do kinda hope we get to meet more of the Aes Sedai soon.

The Whitecloak stuff was very hard to watch, though. I get that Valda wants to eliminate every woman who can channel, but....if he's really that suspicious of Egwene, why not just kill her instead of torturing Perrin? This whole "I won't kill those who walk in the light and can't channel" argument works a lot less well when he's actively torturing Perrin and threatening to kill Perrin who, as far as he knows, can't channel. So go, little wolves, go. Eat all the Whitecloaks! I'm rooting for you, little wolves!

[Danny Franks]

3 minutes ago, quarks said:

Other things: I loved that the episode started and ended with funerals; it formed a nice symmetry. I also loved the various small touches here and there - like those large stones with the strange markings that Rand was looking at, the huge mountain looming over everything, and the blink-and-you'll-miss-it mention of Cairhein. And the continued glimpses of all the politics and undercurrents in the White Tower, and the way Moiraine is starting to ask if the bond can be removed. I do kinda hope we get to meet more of the Aes Sedai soon.

There was also a familiar face watching Rand and Mat when they went to the inn, and again when they were sitting on the balcony, watching Logain pass.

[tennisgurl]

We finally get to see Tar Valon and Dragonmount, and I am really glad we had a bit of a time skip to get there faster because it really is beautifully realized. A sort of mix of real world cultures with heavy influence by the White Tower. I am grateful for the time skip, I was worried we would get bogged down this season with travel and the main characters always almost finding each other but just missing, and I like that Rand and Mat, who have had a pretty tough trip, did look quite rough. Well, Rand looks like he's been on a long trip with a lot of walking. Mat looks about like a walking corpse. See, this is why we don't steal things from abandoned magic cities when your told not to touch things!

We also get to meet Loial, and while Mr. Tennisgurl thinks his look is terrible, I think its decent enough, considering they didn't want to use CGI. I wish his ears were more pointy but his voice and personality are just perfect so far. This is also the first time on the show we have really met a friendly non human character, so that's cool to see. Unless you count the Aes Sedai, which I don't, they're basically humans with magic and very specific taste in clothing. We also see more Aes Sedai politics, which is very interesting but also seems pretty annoying to have to deal with, I can see why Moraine and Lan tend to not make it back very much. 

It was great seeing Nynaeve get to reunite with Rand and Mat, even if Mat was pretty dead to the world at the time. Its unfortunate that they don't want to take him to the White Tower (although for understandable reasons) because they could probably figure out right away what was really going. Of course that could create even more problems if he really can channel or if they realize that Rand can, but one problem at a time for now. 

Really good episode for Lan and Moiraine, they have mostly been portrayed as pretty put together and stoic but both showed a ton of feels all episode, from Moiraine light heartedly teasing Lan a bit about Nynaeve clearly having feelings for him to the funeral when they both cried. You could really feel it hitting them over and over that they could have just as easily been them, and it could still be one day. 

I really liked Steppin adding his Aes Sedai's ring to the forging fire as part of the grieving ceremonies, I don't think that was in the books but its a really nice touch. 

Poor Perrin and Egwene looked happier then they have since the first episode at first, then the horrible white cloaks showed up to ruin everything. I hope that the Tuatha'an are alright, it looks like they were being beaten and not killed so hopefully we get to run into them again. Maria Doyle Kennedy is too good for only a few episodes. I dont even think the head questioner really thought Egwene could channel, he just wanted to hurt people he knows were with Aes Sedai and is still pissy the other white cloak wouldn't let him kill them before. I hope that even after being stabbed he got eaten by the wolves that Perrin apparently summoned, but we are probably not that lucky. Dinner time wolves, eat up!

Edited December 3, 2021 by tennisgurl

[Anduin]

4 hours ago, quarks said:

Loial originally appeared in The Eye of the World in 1990. I think Treebeard was a pretty obvious inspiration for Loial, but the Malazan books first started appearing in 1999, a few years after Loial's first appearance.

I was kind of joking, referring to Erikson's habit of giving characters that are names or objects. Sorry, Wiskeyjack, Fiddler, Hedge, etc. Who knows, he might have been inspired by WOT.

Actually on topic, I liked Loial. I'm not sure the costume was what it could be, but it's enough to get the point across.

 

[thuganomics85]

Finally get to the White Tower and the rest of the city!  Looked pretty cool for the most part.  Certainly aren't skipping on production values here.

Part of me wishes we got more of Stepin (and his friendship with Lan) in order to really make his death impactful, but I still thought it was effective enough showing just how strong the bond is between the Aes Sedai and their Warders, and how the latter especially might not even be able to live without the former if they die first.  Especially since in this case, it sounded like Stepin's Aes Sedai was really important to him with the way they met and how she saved him from going down a dark path.  Certainly helps getting someone of Peter Franzen's caliber to play him as he was able to do a lot with the screen time he was given.  His wake and Lan's reaction was heartbreaking.

Yikes, these White Cloaks and especially Valda are the complete worse.  Poor Ferrin and Egwene.  At least they escape now thanks to Egwene creating just enough fire power to free Ferrin and Ferrin unleashing his apparent wolf controlling skills (actually, is he actually controlling them or are they just allying with him?!) on those assholes.  Of course, I saw that Valda was only stabbed in the shoulder, so I'm sure he and his sneer will be back.  But this was probably both Marcus Rutherford and Madeleine Madden's best performances so far, which is good.

Glad Nynaeve is already reunited with Rand and Mat and they know she's alive.  But Mat.... really isn't looking so good.

Looks like political intrigue is finally coming to the show, as Moiraine not only has to deal with this Liandrin/Red Cloak lady gunning for her (and more power), but it sounds like the leader (?) of the Aes Sedai isn't a fan of hers either.  It's never easy, is it?

Not the best make-up for the friendly ogre guy, but the actor did a good job and I'm looking forward to seeing more of the character.

Hope this isn't the last we will see of the Tinkers.

Hopefully Ferrin and Egwene will meet up with everyone else soon, because I'm curious to see what is going to happen going forward. 

[DearEvette]

Breakbone fever sounds incredibly painful and horrific. 

I am liking how the show is showing the physical deterioration of Mat. Really well done because it feels exactly the way it was described in the books.

I was super happy Nynaeve hooked up with Rand and Mat so quickly.  And I agree Zoe Robins is simply nailing the essence of Nynaeve.  Although I do think she is naive when it comes to the Aes Sedai.  They have a powerful channeler in their midst, they are not going to let her go easily.

Also I am here for how they are setting up Lan/Nynaeve.  Also --- for the record this is my obligatory Lan thirst moment.  That man is beautiful!

8 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

And I thought Steppin's actor did a really good job of showing a man who is just... numb. Nothing mattered any more, like he was already dead. It's a tough thing to portray, because this isn't just the grief of losing a loved one, it's absolute desolation and the deadening of the world around him.

So true.  Stepin just broke my heart all over the place.  For such a minor character he made an impact on me.  The actor killed it.  Also I am loving the show for showing the Warder comraderie so well.  I didn't get that sense of their deep brotherhood from the books  (or at least I don't remember it)

Egwene and Perrin's adventure was great (and awful).  I hated their experience -- those Whitecloaks are just sadists -- but LOVED their escape yay more wolves for Perrin.

First look at Loial. Huh.  Not quite how I had him looking in my head.  But good rep.  And I think Ogiers are completely influenced by ogres. 

And finally I saw that Salli Richardson-Whitfield directed this episode. God for her!  Girl, pile up those directing credits!!

----

 

A little OT:

3 hours ago, Anduin said:

I was kind of joking, referring to Erikson's habit of giving characters that are names or objects. Sorry, Wiskeyjack, Fiddler, Hedge, etc. Who knows, he might have been inspired by WOT.

Heh... Rope, Dancer, Lady Envy.  My reading trajectory went Wheel of Time --> Game of Thrones --> Malazan.  I honestly don't feel these three have any real similarities.  WOT is more traditional epic fantasy while GOT is political/military fantasy and Malazan is ... well it is so super cracked out that  I don't know what it is.  It feels closer to Glen Cook's Black Company than anything Tolkien /WOT derived.

 

[Anduin]

16 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

And finally I saw that Salli Richardson-Whitfield directed this episode. God for her!  Girl, pile up those directing credits!!

A little OT:

Heh... Rope, Dancer, Lady Envy.  My reading trajectory went Wheel of Time --> Game of Thrones --> Malazan.  I honestly don't feel these three have any real similarities.  WOT is more traditional epic fantasy while GOT is political/military fantasy and Malazan is ... well it is so super cracked out that  I don't know what it is.  It feels closer to Glen Cook's Black Company than anything Tolkien /WOT derived.

 

I wonder if it it helped Madeleine Madden to have a female director this ep. So she knew her big moment would be handled sensitively. It was bad enough without some male camera gaze.

As for author comparisons, yes. Erikson said that Cook was a big influence. But one can draw smaller influences from any number of places. If I was up to date with Malazan, I'd be tempted to go to his FB and ask.

[Ottis]

I figured out why this show seems like a kid version of better, epic fantasy and even sci fi shows. We are only 5 episodes in, we barely know most of the characters, and we are supposed to identify with various people dying, or losing their Aes Sedai, and long grieving ceremonies and speeches, or the nonviolence of the Tinkers met with violence of the Order of Light, or whatever transformation Mat is going through.

We don't know them. It's difficult to care about them. Watching these moments seems like the show is being indulgent and lazy (or feels like it has to move fast to action). I wouldn't care if Mat died right now, or if we never saw the Tinkers again. 

So while we wait endless minutes for people to don white and mourn, or the sadistic Light leader to torture others, none of it really impacts me.

The show needs to hop around, introducing the world and getting us to invest in it, and its characters, while giving us glimpses (defined as brief) of what those characters stand for. Later, once we understand them better, put them in situations that make us care. Ned wasn't beheaded until episode 9.

In this episode 5, we are just starting to get to the point where we might care about some characters.

4 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Yikes, these White Cloaks and especially Valda are the complete worse.

Yes, the show is doing a nice job of depicting them as dicks. Another episode or two and we will really be rooting for them to die. That's how it should work. Oh, whoops. Blew that one, too.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Ottis

[DoctorAtomic]

Kudos to the actor playing Logain. He just looks totally blank. 

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

Although I do think she is naive when it comes to the Aes Sedai.  They have a powerful channeler in their midst, they are not going to let her go easily.

I'll give Moiraine some credit that she was genuinely sincere in warning her. However, I don't think Moiraine understood how worried Ny was for the others. 

11 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

And we meet Loial. He... actually works. He looks okay. Not sure about the hair colour, but the rest was pretty decent, given they decided not to use CGI.

I think they were better off not using CGI. The prosthetics allow the actor to emote more. I like the rumbly voice. 

10 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

There was also a familiar face watching Rand and Mat when they went to the inn, and again when they were sitting on the balcony, watching Logain pass.

Who?! I watched it three times. (Tell me in the book thread). 

 

[paigow]

Stepin + Wolf = Born To Be Wild / Magic Carpet Ride

[Haleth]

There are 10 episodes?  We are halfway through?  I don't feel that I know any of the major characters really.  Or care much about them.  If any of them were to die I would kind of shrug at this point.  (Except maybe Nynaeve and Lan.  I want them to run off together and have their own adventure.)

20 hours ago, Ottis said:

We don't know them. It's difficult to care about them. Watching these moments seems like the show is being indulgent and lazy (or feels like it has to move fast to action). I wouldn't care if Mat died right now, or if we never saw the Tinkers again. 

Completely agree.

It was sad when Boromir Stepin returned to Minas Tirith Tar Valon alone only to die of grief.  I was hoping he'd find a way to connect with Nynaeve, even though she and Lan have better chemistry.  (I kid about Boromir, but the actor reminds me of Sean Bean.)  All the scenes involving the Warders were highly emotional and well acted.

Oh, look!  It's Mount Doom!

Maybe no dragon but the ogre Ogier was cool.  Gotta love a monster who appreciates literature and fancy clothing.

It finally occurred to me where I'd seen the actor who plays Valda.  He was Kiera Knightley's husband in Love, Actually.

eta: Oops, right movie, wrong role. 

On 12/3/2021 at 8:34 AM, Anduin said:

On another note, why stick blue contacts onto Rosamund Pike?

Yeah, I noticed the CGI enhanced blue eyes.  I suppose there is a reason?

I know I sound very critical but I am enjoying the show and look forward to each episode.  It's fun but so far hasn't offered anything new.  The Expanse starts it's final season next Fri so my viewing of WoT will fall to Saturdays.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Haleth

[paigow]

Looks like Moiraine will reluctantly participate in a fight for the Iron Throne  Seat. Either she defends the incumbent or launches her own campaign supported by a coalition of moderate / centrist Sisters.

[Humbugged]

4 hours ago, Haleth said:

 

 

Maybe no dragon but the ogre Ogier was cool.  Gotta love a monster who appreciates literature and fancy clothing.

Boy does he love a book . Sam in GOT was based on him ,as he spend the next 14 books  writing  a book on the EF5 and is forever taking notes

[supposebly]

6 hours ago, Haleth said:

There are 10 episodes?  We are halfway through?  I don't feel that I know any of the major characters really.

Yes, that's concerning for me. At least I remember their names now. Mostly.

What intrigues me the most is the relationship between the Aes Sedai and their Wardens. Is the bonding something magic? They better have safeguards in place that make the future warden clear on what they're getting themselves into. Otherwise, that seems a bit brainwashy to me. Suicide when one of them dies is rather extreme. Would an Aes Sedai be as affected? The funeral ceremony seems to suggest that, based on Moiraine's reaction to Lan's grief.

I was surprised that Perrin only now admitted that he killed his wife. I had assumed that he had told the others who kept telling him it wasn't his fault. So, I'm glad we actually got a scene where he tells Egwene. I like that he understands now that the wolves protect him. 

I keep thinking I would have liked Howard Charles to play Perrin (Porthos in the Musketeers). None of the younger actors click with me. They are all a bit bland. But maybe that's on purpose. Since they are supposed to be a bunch of country bumpkins.

Oh Mat. Why aren't they taking him to the Tower? He's clearly not just tired.

[General Days]

On 12/2/2021 at 11:42 PM, Zonk said:

In every scene with Mat I was screaming at the screen "It's the knife you dumbasses!" Man these people really can't put two and two together, can they? How long are they going to drag this out? Because I'm already so bored with it. We've seen the other two guys channel. They show no sign of madness. We know they aren't going to go mad, probably because they are all the dragon and the last dragon was released from the madness by the dark one.

...

Speaking off those two, showing us the tea package was a bit overkill. Yeah, I got that Stepin druged Lan with the tea he got from Nynaeve, when Lan woke up on the floor with the tea cup in his hand. There is such a thing as hammering something a bit too much.

...

I do really love this show, but it's another case of a show with a connected narrative that would work way better if you could binge a whole season, since there are no contained stories in the episodes. It's all one long story without any real stoping point, basically a long movie. I might have to hold off on this one and watch it once the whole season is released. We'll see if I have that kind of willpower.

 

I'm right there with you on screaming about the dagger and am bored with it, too.

I'm not with you on showing the tea package. When Lan awoke and looked at his cup, I said, "Oh, did the other one poison him, or did he just pass out?" My husband reminded me of the tea (before they cut to the empty package). If I'd been watching alone, I would have forgotten all about tea.

Ah, now I'm with you again. I wish I'd waited until the whole season dropped, before I started watching. I'll keep watching as it's released, because I have little willpower, but then I'll probably rewatch, so I can put everything together.

 

On 12/3/2021 at 8:34 AM, Anduin said:

So being the Dragon Reborn doesn't mean you can turn into an actual dragon? It's just a metaphor or something? I'm little disappointed. How can you have proper fantasy without a good dragon?

On another note, why stick blue contacts onto Rosamund Pike? Other Sedai don't have eyes the same colour as their clothes. Be interesting to see Liandrin with red eyes, though. Priyanka Bose doesn't have green contacts. That suggests that Moraine's eye colour is a relevant detail. Rand and Liandrin have blue eyes too. Could any of them be related?

 

I'm disappointed there will be no actual dragon-ing.

I like the contrast of the dark hair and blue eyes on Rosamund Pike's Moirane, though. 

 

6 hours ago, Haleth said:

There are 10 episodes?  We are halfway through?  I don't feel that I know any of the major characters really.  Or care much about them.  If any of them were to die I would kind of shrug at this point.  (Except maybe Nynaeve and Lan.  I want them to run off together and have their own adventure.)

...

It was sad when Boromir Stepin returned to Minas Tirith Tar Valon alone only to die of grief.  I was hoping he'd find a way to connect with Nynaeve, even though she and Lan have better chemistry.  (I kid about Boromir, but the actor reminds me of Sean Bean.)  All the scenes involving the Warders were highly emotional and well acted.

Oh, look!  It's Mount Doom!

Maybe no dragon but the ogre Ogier was cool.  Gotta love a monster who appreciates literature and fancy clothing.

It finally occurred to me where I'd seen the actor who plays Valda.  He was Kiera Knightley's husband in Love, Actually.

Yeah, I noticed the CGI enhanced blue eyes.  I suppose there is a reason?

I know I sound very critical but I am enjoying the show and look forward to each episode.  It's fun but so far hasn't offered anything new.  The Expanse starts it's final season next Fri so my viewing of WoT will fall to Saturdays.

 

There are eight episodes in the first season, Haleth. I read somewhere (I can't find it now, though) that either there were supposed to be 10 or the showrunner wanted 10, but Amazon only wanted eight. I haven't read the book series, but I think the TV series could have done with more episodes. There are a lot of characters. It would be nice if more of them mattered more.

At the beginning of "Blood Calls Blood," when Stepin was carrying Kerene's body to that grave site, I really thought I was looking at a skinnied-down Sean Bean. It took a minute  to realize it was Stepin (and it took pausing the show, to see that the character's name was Stepin).

Earlier in the thread, someone said they made Moiraine's eyes blue to match her description in the book. I don't think it means more.

Overall Opinion

I really wish the show had given me a chance to care about Stepin and Kerene before it structured a whole episode around their deaths. As it was, it just left me (1) feeling nothing and (2) keenly aware that I was feeling nothing. 

I understand it was meant to demonstrate the deep bond between Aes Sedai and Warder, and inform my understanding of Moiraine and Lan's relationship, and it did do that some, but we'd already seen that at play in previous episodes. 

I didn't find myself grieving Kerene and Stepin, so I felt a bit like I'd shown up at a two strangers' funerals, and felt a bit bad for few new acquaintances I spotted there, who did happen to know the departed.

Edited December 4, 2021 by General Days
to insert omitted words

[Danny Franks]

3 minutes ago, General Days said:

 

I'm right there with you on screaming about the dagger and am bored with it, too.

The only other person who's seen the dagger is Rand, and then only briefly while distracted by dead bodies and a Fade. I doubt he's given it a second thought - Mat had a knife, Rand didn't know he gave that knife to Perrin so for all he knows it's the same one he always had.

Mat should perhaps realise something, but if the dagger is affecting him then it's probably affecting the way he thinks about the dagger too.

[MissLucas]

6 hours ago, Haleth said:

It finally occurred to me where I'd seen the actor who plays Valda.  He was Kiera Knightley's husband in Love, Actually.

No, but thanks for getting me on the right track, because I wracked my brain where I knew him from.  That's Abdul Sails, he played Tony who was working on the porn movie set, also best friend to annoying Colin. By the end he's at the airport, congratulating the body double/stand-ins played by Joanna Page and Martin Freeman for finally getting it on and then he gets to snog Denise Richards. Knightley's husband was played by Chiwetel Ejiofor. *makes mental note to watch LA again as Christmas preparation*

I did not mind the massive time-jump but how convenient that they all seemed to arrive at the White Tower at the same time. IIRC Perrin and Egwene saw the White Tower when they were apprehended by the White Cloaks. I never expected them to operate that close to what seems to be the power center of the Aes Sedai. There's a bit of world-building lacking for me to make sense of that. 

Can we now finally talk about the wolves? Seriously, the wolves are for Perrin's plot what the dagger is for Mat's. Both are dumbasses who keep secrets from their partners.

Odd bit of pacing with Loial. He briefly talks with Rand and in the next scene he shows up with Nynaeve in tow. I wondered if I had missed a scene. And then he said that he brought the girl Rand had been talking about. I thought he meant Egwene and wondered how Rand would know about her being in the White Tower and if I had missed another scene. I have also no idea how Rand would have known that Nynaeve was there since she was not part of the procession. And she can just waltz out of there despite Moraine having eyes and ears everywhere? Who's in charge of the place? First the White Cloaks in the front-yard and now this.

Everything about Keren's death and the emotional fall-out was handled beautifully. All the scenes really helped understanding the bond between Ward and Aes Sedai. I wonder what happens when a Ward falls for another woman. I guess we'll find out soon enough though I wish the writers had not felt it necessary to drop several anvils on our heads to understand where this is going.

 

[General Days]

38 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

The only other person who's seen the dagger is Rand, and then only briefly while distracted by dead bodies and a Fade. I doubt he's given it a second thought - Mat had a knife, Rand didn't know he gave that knife to Perrin so for all he knows it's the same one he always had.

Mat should perhaps realise something, but if the dagger is affecting him then it's probably affecting the way he thinks about the dagger too.

I understand all that, but it didn't work for me.

Rand spotted the dagger in the scene with the dead bodies and the Fade, and ever since then, he's watched as his lifelong friend looks strung out, and is questioning whether he killed a little girl.

Rand saw the dagger in the very same episode in which Thom the Gleeman told Rand about his nephew, Owyn, who went "sour," and Thom said Mat has "all the signs."

It also didn't work for me, because Mat, whom Rand has known as a good-natured scamp with a sad family life, took a turn after he went on an unsanctioned walk in an abandoned city known to be infected by evil, the city in which lady high queen witch (or her faithful warder consort) told them not to touch anything.

I am neither right to be bored with it, or wrong to be bored with it. I simply am bored with it. In other words, I don't care for the pacing on this storyline.

 

7 hours ago, Haleth said:

I know I sound very critical but I am enjoying the show and look forward to each episode.  It's fun but so far hasn't offered anything new.

 

The above really is where I am at. I sound more critical than I feel, probably because I love a good bookend story structure, but I felt like they spent it unwisely in episode five, since I cared only slightly more about Kerene and Stepin, than I do about characters on shows I've never watched.

Whenever a TV show is an adaptation of a book/books, I expect it to work for people who don't know the source material. It should be a full story for them, too.

You're making a new thing, creative people. You should want new viewers, who don't already know how your story ends, to care about what you're doing. I feel that way, even when I have read the books.

Edited December 4, 2021 by General Days

[Haleth]

54 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

No, but thanks for getting me on the right track, because I wracked my brain where I knew him from.  That's Abdul Sails, he played Tony who was working on the porn movie set, also best friend to annoying Colin. By the end he's at the airport, congratulating the body double/stand-ins played by Joanna Page and Martin Freeman for finally getting it on and then he gets to snog Denise Richards. Knightley's husband was played by Chiwetel Ejiofor. *makes mental note to watch LA again as Christmas preparation*

Oh, right, right, right!  I should have remembered this, as many times as I’ve see it. 

[Danny Franks]

1 hour ago, General Days said:

I understand all that, but it didn't work for me.

Rand spotted the dagger in the scene with the dead bodies and the Fade, and ever since then, he's watched as his lifelong friend looks strung out, and is questioning whether he killed a little girl.

Rand saw the dagger in the very same episode in which Thom the Gleeman told Rand about his nephew, Owyn, who went "sour," and Thom said Mat has "all the signs."

It also didn't work for me, because Mat, whom Rand has known as a good-natured scamp with a sad family life, took a turn after he went on an unsanctioned walk in an abandoned city known to be infected by evil, the city in which lady high queen witch (or her faithful warder consort) told them not to touch anything.

I am neither right to be bored with it, or wrong to be bored with it. I simply am bored with it. In other words, I don't care for the pacing on this storyline.

Yeah, but all of that is why he fears Mat is able to channel. He's never seen anyone act like this - let alone his friend - and he's never seen any men who can channel to know what they usually act like. All he has to go on is what Thom, the worldly wise and knowing Gleeman, told him.

We know that Mat got the dagger in Shadar Logoth, but Rand doesn't. If he did, then I'm sure he'd put it together pretty quickly, because he doesn't appear to be stupid.

[paigow]

1 hour ago, Haleth said:

Oh, right, right, right!  I should have remembered this, as many times as I’ve see it. 

The problem is too many sorcerers!!!!

[Avaleigh]

9 hours ago, Haleth said:

It finally occurred to me where I'd seen the actor who plays Valda.  He was Kiera Knightley's husband in Love, Actually.

ETA: My bad for not finishing reading the thread. Miss Lucas beat me to it.

Chiwetel Ejiofor was Keira Knightley's husband in Love Actually. Abdul Salis plays Valda. In Love Actually Abdul played the friend of the dude who went to America to score a hottie.

Last episode I looked up Abdul's filmography because I think he's really doing a good job with the Valda role and was wondering if I'd seen him in anything else before.

Wrt the episode, it made no sense why they wouldn't go for a kill stab with Valda. You just know he's going to be an even bigger problem for them later on. 

This was my favorite episode to date. The show continues to win me over with its locations, set design, cinematography, etc.

Edited December 4, 2021 by Avaleigh

[Kate47]

My headcanon is that Loial did mistake Nynaeve for Egwene--he knew Rand was hoping to see a girl from his village in Tar Valon that he had feelings for, so he tromped over and did some looking around and ID her by the distinctive braid and then just brought her over. I do agree that we needed a connective scene though.

[Anduin]

Oh, this is very cool. Two of my worlds have collided! A musician I like, Amalie 'Myrkur' Bruun did the vocals for the opening scene. She linked it on IG. Now I know what to listen for, of course it was her. Go listen to more of her stuff on YT, if you want. But note that it varies between those kind of cow herding calls, lovely ballads, and black metal screaming. My favourite track is Ulvinde,

[UnoAgain]

Maybe it's a contrarian streak... Or my sometimes aversion to the snobbiness/racial dogmaticness of the "source-material" section of fandom... Or just my eyes.. But I don't see anything tween Egwene and Rand.. I do see a bond tween Perrin and her... And I could've  sworn in episode one he had almost as many lingering/ longing looks at her as Rand... 

[paigow]

4 minutes ago, UnoAgain said:

But I don't see anything tween Egwene and Rand.. 

She really had run out of options... 3 dudes her age... 1 Dirtbag, 1 Unavailable, 1 Farmboy that looks like young Anakin Skywalker

[Haleth]

10 minutes ago, paigow said:

She really had run out of options... 3 dudes her age... 1 Dirtbag, 1 Unavailable, 1 Farmboy that looks like young Anakin Skywalker

Guess that's why she decided to become a Wisdom.  

[supposebly]

I'm not so much annoyed that they don't realize it's the dagger that's affecting Mat, it's that they don't get help and go up to the Tower. He looks like death warmed over twice and they hang out at the inn, what, because they wanted to wash? If Ninaeve was any kind of healer she should be able to tell that this is more than just an illness. Is her ego getting in the way?

Story and character logic is really not that great here. If they want to drag this out or make it reasonable that they don't take it all that seriously, they shouldn't make him look like he's been dead twice, wandered around as a zombie while in the end stages of syphilis, never even mind his depression about the family that got killed and he isn't quite sure if it wasn't him.

Subtlety with the make-up would have helped to make their behavior much more understandable.

[silverstream]

On 12/4/2021 at 7:43 PM, MissLucas said:

Odd bit of pacing with Loial. He briefly talks with Rand and in the next scene he shows up with Nynaeve in tow. I wondered if I had missed a scene. And then he said that he brought the girl Rand had been talking about. I thought he meant Egwene and wondered how Rand would know about her being in the White Tower and if I had missed another scene.

 

 

22 hours ago, Kate47 said:

My headcanon is that Loial did mistake Nynaeve for Egwene--he knew Rand was hoping to see a girl from his village in Tar Valon that he had feelings for, so he tromped over and did some looking around and ID her by the distinctive braid and then just brought her over. I do agree that we needed a connective scene though.

I got that impression too, and it's not the first time - I think they cut quite a bit in general, especially considering the rumour that the material they had was cut down from 10 episodes to 8. I also noticed in the third(?) episode that Moraine and Lan acted as if the others didn't know about Shadar Logoth (and why would they), but a couple of scenes later one of the Two Rivers crowd was using the name "Shadar Logoth" as if they'd already been told about it.

22 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Wrt the episode, it made no sense why they wouldn't go for a kill stab with Valda. You just know he's going to be an even bigger problem for them later on.

I also think that he's definitely going to come back to cause further issues, but I didn't have any problems with Egwene not killing him - killing another person is a pretty huge step and she's a small-town girl who'd also just been tortured. Yes, in that situation killing Valda would have been absolutely defensible, but it's a huge hurdle to cross if you've never even suspected you might ever be confronted with that kind of choice and probably not the first thing she'd think of (especially since she'd basically been about to go into healer training).

Stepin sure had a spine of literal steel, if I had that kind of stomach wound, I'd definitely not remain stoically kneeling upright until the time I'd bled out (at least I don't think there's anything down there that can kill you instantly).

Edited December 5, 2021 by silverstream

[silverstream]

1 hour ago, supposebly said:

I'm not so much annoyed that they don't realize it's the dagger that's affecting Mat, it's that they don't get help and go up to the Tower. He looks like death warmed over twice and they hang out at the inn, what, because they wanted to wash? If Ninaeve was any kind of healer she should be able to tell that this is more than just an illness. Is her ego getting in the way?

Story and character logic is really not that great here. If they want to drag this out or make it reasonable that they don't take it all that seriously, they shouldn't make him look like he's been dead twice, wandered around as a zombie while in the end stages of syphilis, never even mind his depression about the family that got killed and he isn't quite sure if it wasn't him.

Subtlety with the make-up would have helped to make their behavior much more understandable.

The way I took it, Rand's not taking him there because of Thom's story - he believes Mat has either already started channeling or is about to, so taking him to the Aes Sedai would be as good as killing him; this way, at least he's still got a chance. And Nynaeve saw what they do with men who channel when the Aes Sedai stilled Logain and is already suspicious of them, so I've no problem thinking she'll probably try to heal him herself first (especially since she's already quite convinced of her own abilities and just got proof that she's probably better at it than the women in the tower).

[paigow]

11 minutes ago, silverstream said:

The way I took it, Rand's not taking him there because of Thom's story - he believes Mat has either already started channeling or is about to, so taking him to the Aes Sedai would be as good as killing him;

Or Rand is still mad he had to chop 500 pounds of firewood while Mat got the warm waiter job...