S03.E09: All the Bells Say

[TexasGal]

Quote

Upon learning Matsson has his own vision for the future GoJo-Waystar relationship, Shiv and Roman team up to manage the potential fallout, as Logan quietly considers his options. Later, the siblings' "intervention" prompts Connor to remind them of his position in the family, while Greg continues his attempts to climb the dating ladder with a contessa.

Airdate: 12.12.2021

[Penman61]

Three worst responses to “Will you marry me?”:

3. “I’m your sister!”

2. “Sir, this is an Arby’s.”

1. “Sure, why not. How bad could it be?”

[dmc]

No words

Et tu Tom?

 

You have to give it to Shiv, that level of game face is hard to pull off with a knife in your back.  I have to hand it the actress despite her continued abuse of Tom through indifference and manipulation...I felt for her at this moment. 

 

So Kendall finally came clean about his negligent homicide?  So he did die, the part of him harboring that secret died...hopefully a new Kendall free from any illusions of his father and free of this secret will be born next season

 

Logan and Caroline... not hard to see how these two became connected initially...

Caroline is fine though, she barely calls or sees her children and when she does, she clearly emotionally cut off 

 

 

Logan won but did he though?

There's no coming back from this with his kids, the blinders are off and for once they seem united...

 

the strings have been cut...

 

But Logan thrives on strings...his entire game is who to pull close and let dangle...what to say to bring them back in...

 

Who is Logan with no one to control?

Edited December 13, 2021 by dmc

[Jordan Baker]

Would Tom have done this if the "I don't love you but I love you" stuff had never happened? Was that what caused him to flip? Or does it go back to an agreement with Logan, when Logan said he wouldn't forget what Tom had offered to do (be the sacrificial lamb for the Waystar mess)?

[Johnny Dollar]

I love that the worst thing that could be expected of the Roy children is that they be subjected to an honest and unbiased rating of their abilities. Heaven forbid!

I love Tom’s angle, but I don’t know why he needs Greg. What does he bring to the fight that makes him an attack dog?

[pennben]

Hahahahaha! Fuck em.  None of those kids have earned a damn thing and none certainly seem qualified to actually run a billion dollar enterprise. I was with Logan all the way here (even though he too is awful)…earn it!  Let’s go Tom!!!

Edited December 13, 2021 by pennben

[BlackberryJam]

This finale was totally worth the entire season.

The acting, particularly SS and KC, was brilliant. The show is Succession and Logan won by cutting them all out. 

[Alexander Pope]

This was by far the best episode of the season and maybe of the show.  For me the MVP was Kieran Culkin.  When Roman said "love" at that crunch moment, he made me believe he meant it.  And Gerry--a whited sepulchre!! this was worth the wait.

[HC87]

Humor me, but couldn't that attempted coup plot (using the divorce agreement) by the Roy children been attempted long ago??? 

Seems like they just strung out this season on intra-family back-stabbing.

Edited December 13, 2021 by HC87

[sistermagpie]

Just now, HC87 said:

Humor me, but couldn't that attempted coup plot (using the divorce agreement) by the Roy children been attempted long ago??? 

Seems like they just strung out these season on intra-family back-stabbing.

Of course it could have, but they've addressed that pretty openly.

I love how this show managed to make me feel for these people who have tons of everything just because they didn't get something they wanted that none of them deserve anyway! It really is better for all of them to be cut out. And yet, it worked because the show's done a great job of establishing that it really isn't about the money and power for the kids. It's about love, in that twisted way. And they do, again in a twisted way, love each other. It's really interesting watching them interact without Logan whispering in every single person's ear. That mom was the one that fucked them was perfect.

And Tom, of course. But Tom's got reason. The mom just showed who she's always been. Wonder what Connor's going to think about this!

Seriously, you idiots, go make your own piles of money on top of the piles you were born with! 

[Alexander Pope]

3 minutes ago, HC87 said:

Humor me, but couldn't that attempted coup plot (using the divorce agreement) by the Roy children been attempted long ago??? 

Seems like they just strung out this season on intra-family back-stabbing.

they could have but they were all too seduced by wanting to win Logan's approval.   It took the season and Kendall's confession to unite them.  This wasn't about reason, it was about emotional breakthroughs that were too long coming.

 

[Diapason Untuned]

There are no words. Just damn.

When you saw the whole family, even Logan kinda pulling for Kendall there at the start, I got a funny feeling in my stomach that I kinda realized was hope for this crazy fucked up family. Then I remembered what show I was watching. 😂

Jeremy Strong did some unbelievable acting when he just broke down in front of his sibs like that. Kendall just seemed done with everything. I can't believe he admitted his secret to them. Their response left something to be desired, but hey they tried.

I was howling when Ken was talking about what he was owed as the eldest son when Connor was right there 🤣 They all deserved Con going off on them.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but poor Roman! First his dad scrutinizing his sex life and the way he just dismissed him from the meeting with Mattson. Roman sorta knew he was getting screwed over, but he couldn't bring himself to believe it, even up to the end, The way he was just begging Logan at the end.

Logan sinks to even deeper depths than usual today. The way he immediately tried to play Roman off against his sibs as soon as they came in united was a look at the way he must have raised them.

No wonder they're all so fucked up, especially Roman. Then he tried to play it off as a lesson for them to succeed, which would have made some sort of sense, if Logan himself hadn't basically manipulated them so he could keep them locked to him, He fucked all of them over when they were trying to gain some measure of independence from him, he doesn't get to complain about the real world to them now. 

Then he just calls Caroline. No wonder she was married to Logan, she just calmly sold her kids out like that and didn't give a single damn.

Finally, Logan was perfectly honest that he's doing it for his sake, and that he cares zero about any of them.

And then Tom! The man has cause, but still, I felt for Shiv when she realized it.

I'm really looking forward to how the status quo will change next season.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Diapason Untuned

[dmc]

22 minutes ago, Jordan Baker said:

Would Tom have done this if the "I don't love you but I love you" stuff had never happened? Was that what caused him to flip? Or does it go back to an agreement with Logan, when Logan said he wouldn't forget what Tom had offered to do (be the sacrificial lamb for the Waystar mess)?

He asked her what about him all season and she was like shrug...I don't care...

and he was like ok...I will look out for me and eff you

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by dmc

[Brian Cronin]

I love how this really makes Season 4 totally up in the air. I love how this show can still surprise every year, but not by being stupid. It's rare and appreciated. 

[vibeology]

23 minutes ago, Jordan Baker said:

Would Tom have done this if the "I don't love you but I love you" stuff had never happened? Was that what caused him to flip? Or does it go back to an agreement with Logan, when Logan said he wouldn't forget what Tom had offered to do (be the sacrificial lamb for the Waystar mess)?

I think it goes back to Tom knowing that Kendall always gets fucked and Logan never does. Logan wins and Tom decided to be a winner too. Is it weird that I'm proud of Tom?

That was so intense from start to finish. I loved it. I loved the kids being honest with each other, looking out for Kendall's well-being and teaming up. And I loved seeing Logan realize that for the first time in his life he couldn't play them off of one another. Of course, he had the winning move anyhow, but losing the power to fuck with their minds still rocked him. 

At the end of the day, these three asshole kids know that they can't stand up to real scrutiny. There's no coming out ahead in having an objective party assess their abilities and worth.

[Ellaria]

Brilliant! I’m still in shock. This was not what I was expecting and I’m thrilled by that. 

Roman finally standing up to his father. Shiv and Roman listening to Kendall’s confession. Last week, I wouldn’t have let any of the Roy kids run a lemonade stand. I was done with Shiv and Roman. Now I actually feel badly for them even though they don’t deserve it. That’s how this that show plays with my head.

Tom making his move and finally using the leverage that he had. Of course, he brings Greg because, in a twisted way, Greg is his only friend and confidante. Tom showing us what we probably already suspected: he is as devious as the rest of them.

The acting…give them all of the awards now. Kieran Culkin, in particular, gave us a master class in acting in this episode. 

[Lassus]

It seemed odd to me that they didn't figure out RIGHT THEN that Tom turned.

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, vibeology said:

At the end of the day, these three asshole kids know that they can't stand up to real scrutiny. There's no coming out ahead in having an objective party assess their abilities and worth.

But also, am I wrong in thinking that they probably wouldn't even be objectively assessed? How could they be when they're the kids of the guy who used to own the place? Even if any of them were seriously talented, seems like the only way he'd really want one of them there with any importance would be if they were there the way Shiv was president. There to look like it's a transition but it's really not. That's what Roman would have been. 

 

[txhorns79]

13 minutes ago, Diapason Untuned said:

No wonder they're all so fucked up, especially Roman. Then he tried to play it off as a lesson for them to succeed, which would have made some sort of sense, if Logan himself hadn't basically manipulated them so he could keep them locked to him, He fucked all of them over when they were trying to gain some measure of independence from him, he doesn't get to complain about the real world to them now. 

Yeah, on the one hand, they have parents who are monsters that will gladly screw them all over if it benefits the parents.  On the other hand, Shiv, Kendall and Roman are entitled and arrogant without much to back it up.  I do give KC credit though.  He did a great job of showing how actually terrified Roman is of his father, and how it clearly was a huge step for him to stand up to him. 

[dmc]

3 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

But also, am I wrong in thinking that they probably wouldn't even be objectively assessed? How could they be when they're the kids of the guy who used to own the place? Even if any of them were seriously talented, seems like the only way he'd really want one of them there with any importance would be if they were there the way Shiv was president. There to look like it's a transition but it's really not. That's what Roman would have been. 

 

But they are still rich so what stops them from being like eff this and just finding new work. I mean Shiv had a whole other career before

Edited December 13, 2021 by dmc

[Crone]

Oh I think Shiv knew that Tom played them. Her expression at the end- like she was broken but trying to keep her game face and calculating her next move.

[Athena5217]

Oh Roman, you really should have listened to Gerri when she told you to stop sending her dick pics. “I want what’s best financially for the shareholders,” is Gerrispeak for “fuck off.”

If could have reached through my TV and hugged Kendall, I would have. His confession was heartbreaking both because of his emotion and his siblings’ sad attempts to comfort him. I know Kendall made several bad choices to end up in that car, but I still felt for him living with that guilt.

[Diapason Untuned]

26 minutes ago, pennben said:

Hahahahaha! Fuck em.  None of those kids have earned a damn thing and none certainly seem qualified to actually run a billion dollar enterprise. I was with Logan all the way here (even though he too is awful)…earn it!  Let’s go Tom!!!

Shiv had a perfectly good career elsewhere, but Logan manipulated her into giving it up in order to use her to his own ends by promising something he was never going to give her.

Kendall worked his way up the ladder to the point where he was virtually CEO but Logan just pulled the rug out from under him on a whim, then tried to sell him out to save his own neck.

They earned something for that.

2 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

Roman finally standing up to his father.

Roman must be thinking that if he had a spine in Season 1, Ken would have taken over and done this same deal, only he would have taken care of him and Shiv while he was at it.

[txhorns79]

Just now, Crone said:

Oh I think Shiv knew that Tom played them. Her expression at the end- like she was broken but trying to keep her game face and calculating her next move.

I did wonder if Tom had screwed them but negotiated some kind of protection for Shiv.  Otherwise, I would think he would keep his distance and simply file for divorce.

[dmc]

Just now, Athena5217 said:

Oh Roman, you really should have listened to Gerri when she told you to stop sending her dick pics. “I want what’s best financially for the shareholders,” is Gerrispeak for “fuck off.”

If could have reached through my TV and hugged Kendall, I would have. His confession was heartbreaking both because of his emotion and his siblings’ sad attempts to comfort him. I know Kendall made several bad choices to end up in that car, but I still felt for him living with that guilt.

I don't think Gerri was being like fuck off...there's nothing she can do.  

[Lady S.]

26 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I love Tom’s angle, but I don’t know why he needs Greg. What does he bring to the fight that makes him an attack dog?

.Absolutely nothing, Tom's just genuinely attached to him.

Kendall's confession scene was seriously heavy, but for some reason it was amusing to see Shiv and Roman trying to comfort him by rubbing his shaved head.

[vibeology]

1 minute ago, dmc said:

But they are still rich so what stops them from being like eff this and just finding new work

And this is the real kicker for me. They would all be better off, healthier etc if they were free from the company and their dad’s manipulation but they’re also obsessed with coming out on top that they can’t see it. 

[sistermagpie]

4 minutes ago, dmc said:

But they are still rich so what stops them from being like eff this and just finding new work

Just being brought up being manipulated by Logan to think that the only thing that really matters is Dad telling them they're the one to inherit the kingdom. Even when they pretend to know they should do something else they get easily lured back.

2 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

Oh Roman, you really should have listened to Gerri when she told you to stop sending her dick pics. “I want what’s best financially for the shareholders,” is Gerrispeak for “fuck off.”

 

Roman lost two mommies that day...

[dmc]

3 minutes ago, vibeology said:

And this is the real kicker for me. They would all be better off, healthier etc if they were free from the company and their dad’s manipulation but they’re also obsessed with coming out on top that they can’t see it. 

THIS.  Logan the person Caroline said loves to kick puppies to watch them come back

Basically gave them an out.  

I would take it

 

Edited December 13, 2021 by dmc

[Lady S.]

4 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

Oh Roman, you really should have listened to Gerri when she told you to stop sending her dink pics. “I want what’s best financially for the shareholders,” is Gerrispeak for “fork off.”

I don't think she would have gone against her self-interest either way. There really was nothing she could do and no reason to stick her neck out trying to argue with Logan.

[Diapason Untuned]

5 minutes ago, dmc said:

But they are still rich so what stops them from being like eff this and just finding new work. I mean Shiv had a whole other career before

Yeah, Kendall has his degrees and his years of experience working in the company, he could find a good job elsewhere. Shiv could too, though it may be harder. But it's not about the money, it's about love.

That's the tragedy of this family. On one hand, Logan groomed them to become his successor and played them off each other to that end, on the other hand he had no intention of actually giving up power and played them off to that end at the same time. 

They don't want the job so much as they want Logan to choose one of them, because he's raised them to believe that's his way of showing love. Except it actually isn't.

[dmc]

I feel like I should get points for pointing out that dick pic would not be a factor for Roman.  It was a bare mention.  

[Athena5217]

4 minutes ago, dmc said:

I don't think Gerri was being like fuck off...there's nothing she can do.

Gerri couldn’t prevent Logan from selling the company, but she could have given him the advice to stop and listen to Roman, Ken, and Shiv. But she didn’t. Nor did she say anything vaguely comforting to Roman because she is right—selling the company is better for the shareholders then keeping crazy Logan in charge or having one of the kids run things.

[dmc]

2 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

Gerri couldn’t prevent Logan from selling the company, but she could have given him the advice to stop and listen to Roman, Ken, and Shiv. But she didn’t. Nor did she say anything vaguely comforting to Roman because she is right—selling the company is better for the shareholders then keeping crazy Logan in charge or having one of the kids run things.

That would have been insane on her part.  He wouldn't have done it and he would be pissed at her.  She had no leverage to use.  Her role is CEO, she just did her job

Edited December 13, 2021 by dmc

[pennben]

Gerri did her job and fulfilled her fiduciary obligations.  

[sistermagpie]

5 minutes ago, dmc said:

I feel like I should get points for pointing out that dick pic would not be a factor for Roman.  It was a bare mention.  

I would say Logan's talk to Roman about how he'd better go fix himself and Shiv's reminder to Roman that Logan would never choose him because he thinks there's someting wrong with him was exactly the factor it was presented as in the last ep. It was never meant to be a public sexual harassment thing. It was about Logan's distaste.

[Lady S.]

When Roman said what he had to offer was his love that must have just been the ultimate sign of his weakness to Logan.

I think Kendall should be better off now. He finally got that secret off his chest and has Shiv and Roman both on his side for once.

I'm also happy for Connor, "fork it" is really the best he could have hoped for. 

So Tom metaphorically kicked his wife like Nero and further expressed his love to his former slave-boy Greg.

[dmc]

2 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

I would say Logan's talk to Roman about how he'd better go fix himself and Shiv's reminder to Roman that Logan would never choose him because he thinks there's someting wrong with him was exactly the factor it was presented as in the last ep. It was never meant to be a public sexual harassment thing. It was about Logan's distaste.

I think he could still be fine with Logan's distaste.  Not fine though, betraying him.

Edited December 13, 2021 by dmc

[Alexander Pope]

Just now, Lady S. said:

When Roman said what he had to offer was his love that must have just been the ultimate sign of his weakness to Logan.

I think Kendall should be better off now. He finally got that secret off his chest and has Shiv and Roman both on his side for once.

I'm also happy for Connor, "fork it" is really the best he could have hoped for. 

So Tom metaphorically kicked his wife like Nero and further expressed his love to his former slave-boy Greg.

Tom called Greg "Sporus" at one point, who was Nero's male concubine--he castrated and married him! Great call on your part!

[DoubleUTeeEff]

4 minutes ago, dmc said:

I feel like I should get points for pointing out that dick pic would not be a factor for Roman.  It was a bare mention.  

I don't think that's true at all. Shiv pointed out to Roman in the car that Logan will never give him control because "he thinks there is something wrong with Roman." Plus there was the whole discussion with Roman and Logan in the boat about Kerri being a good looking woman and if Roman was afraid of fucking or whatever. That dick pic definitely stained Roman in Logan's eyes or at least contributed to his low opinion of Roman's sexual perversions. If not for that truth, Roman may have actually believed that Logan would look out for him and the full coup wouldn't have been attempted.

[apollonia666]

50 minutes ago, Jordan Baker said:

Would Tom have done this if the "I don't love you but I love you" stuff had never happened? Was that what caused him to flip? Or does it go back to an agreement with Logan, when Logan said he wouldn't forget what Tom had offered to do (be the sacrificial lamb for the Waystar mess)?

If you go back and re-watch that gawdawful toast Shiv gave at the reception (as I just did about half a dozen times because WOW), you'll see that when Shiv says, "I hope that your marriage is as rich and happy, rewarding, and fulfilling..." with her hand on Tom's shoulder, you then get just the briefest flash before the camera cuts away of his face turning sour on the last bit: "...as mine." That's the moment right there. 

[Lassus]

Can someone smarter than me explain to me the one adult business thing Greg was talking about?  He's important to who and has leverage where?

Edited December 13, 2021 by Lassus

[Ms Blue Jay]

I want to say something intelligent but in reality I just want to write the name "Kieran Culkin" on a blackboard 500 times like Bart Simpson.  So instead I'll just try to keep it together.  

54 minutes ago, Johnny Dollar said:

I love that the worst thing that could be expected of the Roy children is that they be subjected to an honest and unbiased rating of their abilities. Heaven forbid!

I've been part of two mergers.  That is not what happens.  Most people's throats just get cut, ESPECIALLY the people with the most abilities.

[Lady S.]

2 minutes ago, dmc said:

I think he could still be fine with Logan's distaste.  Not fine though, betraying him.

He wouldn't be Logan's heir though, which was the whole reason he was convinced to finally stand up to him. Logan wasn't going to choose a sicko "scared of pussy" as his replacement. 

[dmc]

7 minutes ago, DoubleUTeeEff said:

I don't think that's true at all. Shiv pointed out to Roman in the car that Logan will never give him control because "he thinks there is something wrong with Roman." Plus there was the whole discussion with Roman and Logan in the boat about Kerri being a good looking woman and if Roman was afraid of fucking or whatever. That dick pic definitely stained Roman in Logan's eyes or at least contributed to his low opinion of Roman's sexual perversions. If not for that truth, Roman may have actually believed that Logan would look out for him and the full coup wouldn't have been attempted.

So we are putting stock in what Shiv thinks Logan would do?  Shiv doesn't even know what her husband would do LOL.  

 

2 minutes ago, Lady S. said:

He wouldn't be Logan's heir though, which was the whole reason he was convinced to finally stand up to him. Logan wasn't going to choose a sicko "scared of pussy" as his replacement. 

I agree with the pussy part.  I think that was evident in episode 1 of this season with his pitch to be CEO

Edited December 13, 2021 by dmc

[Athena5217]

3 minutes ago, dmc said:

That would have been insane on her part.  He wouldn't have done it and he would be pissed at her.  She had no leverage to use.  Her role is CEO, she just did her job

I am pointing out that while Gerri did not have the power to stop the sale she could have tried to convince Logan not to do it. For example, she might have suggested that renegotiating terms of a divorce settlement many years later might not hold up in court if the kids take legal action and regardless, a judge might issue an injunction stopping the sale until the case was decided.

As far as Gerri having no leverage, I don’t believe it. That woman knows where all the bodies are buried at Waystar. It  just wasn’t in her best interests or the shareholders to try to stop the sale, as she told Roman. 

[sistermagpie]

Just now, dmc said:

So we are putting stock in what Shiv thinks Logan would do?  Shiv doesn't even know what her husband would do LOL

 

You don't have to assume any special knowledge on Shiv's part for this one. Logan has never wanted to name a successor. He wasn't treating Roman like one in this ep already and he did, just as predicted, consider Roman's sex issues a problem. It wasn't forgotten or laughed off by Logan. It bothered him.

[Ms Blue Jay]

32 minutes ago, Crone said:

Oh I think Shiv knew that Tom played them. Her expression at the end- like she was broken but trying to keep her game face and calculating her next move.

Shiv totally saw Logan greeting Tom.  And her expression changed.  (I didn't understand any of this until you guys pointed it out to me.)

What did Caroline do?  She retroactively wrote the kids out of having any power in the business decisions?

Only 9 episodes.  How sad. The other seasons got 10.

Edited December 13, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[dmc]

4 minutes ago, Athena5217 said:

I am pointing out that while Gerri did not have the power to stop the sale she could have tried to convince Logan not to do it. For example, she might have suggested that renegotiating terms of a divorce settlement many years later might not hold up in court if the kids take legal action and regardless, a judge might issue an injunction stopping the sale until the case was decided.

As far as Gerri having no leverage, I don’t believe it. That woman knows where all the bodies are buried at Waystar. It  just wasn’t in her best interests or the shareholders to try to stop the sale, as she told Roman. 

She could have but it would been incredibly stupid on her part. I don't feel like it was a shot at Roman or anyone, just smart

4 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

You don't have to assume any special knowledge on Shiv's part for this one. Logan has never wanted to name a successor. He wasn't treating Roman like one in this ep already and he did, just as predicted, consider Roman's sex issues a problem. It wasn't forgotten or laughed off by Logan. It bothered him.

I don't think Roman was out of the running.  Logan was like you should have trusted me?  So it did in the since that Shiv rattled Roman and got him to do another stupid thing

Edited December 13, 2021 by dmc

[Melina22]

Wow,wow, wow. Best episode of the series, starting the moment Kendall sat down in the dust. 

There's been so much talk about  JS's approach to acting, but whatever he does worked beyond belief in this episode. His physicality brilliantly portrayed a person who is disintegrating, right down to the changing color of his face within the scene. And then his siblings horribly awkward but genuine attempts to show love to him, followed by a palpable lightening of the unbearable burden of guilt Kendall had been feeling. Incredible. 

Just as incredible was the physical shock they all showed as they were gradually abandoned and betrayed by literally everyone who mattered to them. So powerful. 

But holy cow, is money ever wasted on these people. None of them noticed or enjoyed ONE SINGLE THING in that incredible location. Not a drink or piece of food, not the spectacular views or the glorious weather - nothing. Completely oblivious. They may as well have been at a wedding held at a Legion in the boondocks, wearing Walmart clothes and eating gas station food. 

Incredible episode, incredible locations and cinematography.