S02.E05: Followers

[paigow]

McCall is hired by an online group of true-crime enthusiasts to find the anonymous stalker of an unsuspecting NYC woman when the criminal claims he will murder her in eight hours.

Airdate: Nov 7 / 21

[Trini]

A few interesting twists in this one. And another great sweater on Robyn. She and Dante seem to working well together for now; they even got back a little flirty banter. It's TV, so they'll have to disrupt this calm at some point, but I hope they stay friendly for a while.

The subplot with Aunt Vi and the Karen was a bit on the nose, but the best parts were Aunt Vi's talk, and Delilah at the end.

Edited November 8, 2021 by Trini
Ack! wrong name!

[paigow]

Harry could have hacked the midtown power grid. Skipping school to deliver social justice might become a full-time job....

[Raja]

That was weird. As soon as you had a suspected child abduction everybody would have been on the case. Detective Dante would have had back up and the "mother" wouldn't be alone in the hospital. So how could an equilizer be running around on this? D.A. truce or not.

[possibilities]

I liked that they showed both the good and the bad of groups like that. The targeting of the innocent guy, the glory-hounding by the boyfriend,  the added publicity and the lack of skill on the part of the investigators... and also the fact that the police were not doing anything, so there was really no one else trying... I thought it was a fairly nuanced (though somehow simultaneously very unsubtle) treatment.

I knew the woman who claimed she was the mom was in on whatever was happening, because she was so completely calm when Robyn burst in there. She didn't seem like she was in shock, she seemed like she was posing. I thought there were a lot of obvious turns in the case, but I still thought this was a better episode than some others we've had. Something about the writing and the acting seem very phoned in, increasingly so week after week. 

I don't know what that toy is that Dante said his boys like, but I was still taken aback that Robyn assumed it HAD TO BE a boy child who had it. Way to reinforce gender stereotyping and lead yourself into a future unforced error, team! It could have been enough that it was a single mom and a child, especially if the other possible address was not that. Or they could have guessed and acknowledged that it was a gamble, if bith houses had a mom + kid.

The Karen story wasn't subtle, but Karens aren't subtle. I appreciated that they had Vi and Delilah voice the way it affected them, and that they didn't have the perp get a redemption arc. Face it: people who behave like that know what they are doing, it's calculated, and they mean it. Excusing it and trying to make it seem accidental is a mistake made too often.

 

 

[AnimeMania]

Just now, possibilities said:

I don't know what that toy is that Dante said his boys like, but I was still taken aback that Robyn assumed it HAD TO BE a boy child who had it. Way to reinforce gender stereotyping and lead yourself into a future unforced error, team!

A part from a Beyblade.

 

[paigow]

7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I don't know what that toy is that Dante said his boys like, but I was still taken aback that Robyn assumed it HAD TO BE a boy child who had it.

McCall had no idea what it was - meaning that Delilah has never asked for one.

[kwnyc]

Delilah is her mother's daughter. She went to the Karen, gave her a chance to do the right thing, and the woman doubled down. Click...send.

That plot was beautifully acted and realized. 

 

[milkyaqua]

I figure that the DA's truce will hold as long as their aren't a lot of bodies dropping.  This one was mild in that regard.  It's pretty timely considering a recent case where amateur on-line detectives played a part in helping bringing something to light the authorities may have missed.  But yes, there's always going to be a dark side to it.

Same with Aunt Vi and Delilah's run in with Karen.  Unfortunately, that happens way too often.  It was nice that Vi and Delilah aired it out from their perspectives and I was fine with Delilah putting the woman on blast because, yes, people like that don't get it, don't care to get it, and will do it over and over again believing they won't get any type of push back.

[marceline]

I loved when Robyn asked Vi "Do you want me to take care of this?" with regard to the Karen. I wonder what THAT would've looked like. Like, "Is that robe worth your life?"

[paigow]

1 minute ago, marceline said:

I loved when Robyn asked Vi "Do you want me to take care of this?" with regard to the Karen. I wonder what THAT would've looked like. Like, "Is that robe worth your life?"

Or Harry would freeze all her assets and link her social media to Jeffrey Epstein 

[marceline]

5 minutes ago, paigow said:

Or Harry would freeze all her assets and link her social media to Jeffrey Epstein 

And let's not even think of what Mel would do. That woman has no idea how close she came to the abyss.

Edited November 8, 2021 by marceline

[Silver-hyren]

I’ve only seen Lorraine Toussaint in villainous roles before. The scenes of Vi and Delilah at the store, and recounting to Robyn in the kitchen later we’re riveting. I knew the Karen wasn’t going to be swayed when Delilah confronted her at the end, and mayyy have cheered out loud when D posted the video. That little chaos grin she gave afterward was just perfect. 

[AnimeMania]

I think Delilah should have consulted Vi before she posted the video, I don't think Vi wanted her bizness all over the internet like that. I kind of remember Vi telling Delilah not to post it. 

[possibilities]

Hmmmn... I thought Vi said not to file a complaint with the police. If she also said not to post the video, then I agree Delilah shouldn't have done it.

[stonehaven]

I've only seen Lorraine Touusaint in two things. Any Day Now with Annie Potts (Great show that I can't seem to find anywhere) and Law and Order. She really has a power and grace all her own. As I was watching the show, I realized how awesome it is to have her and Queen Latifah in the same show.

Great, creepy epsiode. 

 

[greekmom]

Interesting case. At first I thought they were mimicking Don't Fuck with Cats and the whole Luke Magnotta. But they took a slight turn.

I'm glad Delilah video taped the altercation, just so Aunt Vi can prove her innocence. Sad that she needed the video to be believed.  I was so hoping that the police officers that came to the scene was one of POC.  That would have put a more interesting spin if he didn't believe the bitch, she started causing more of a ruckus leading to Delilah pulling out the video and the bitch being arrested by the non POC for calling the police and causing a scene, disturbing the peace, whatever. That would have been more satisfying then Delilah posting the video online which was against Aunt Vi's wishes. 

[quirkygal]

9 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I think Delilah should have consulted Vi before she posted the video, I don't think Vi wanted her bizness all over the internet like that. I kind of remember Vi telling Delilah not to post it. 

Did she post it? It looked like she air dropped it or shared it with people in the office or sent it to the group of people in the office (real estate people put all their contact info out there and everywhere ).

Now if the folks in the office share it with their gossipy colleagues so be it... Couldn't have happened to a nicer person.

[Pietr]

10 minutes ago, quirkygal said:

Did she post it? It looked like she air dropped it or shared it with people in the office or sent it to the group of people in the office (real estate people put all their contact info out there and everywhere ).

Now if the folks in the office share it with their gossipy colleagues so be it... Couldn't have happened to a nicer person.

My impression when Delilah told Lori she 'just made her famous'  didn't mean just to the other people in the office.   I thought they all saw it because she tagged the office to the video.

[marceline]

7 hours ago, stonehaven said:

I've only seen Lorraine Toussaint in two things. Any Day Now with Annie Potts (Great show that I can't seem to find anywhere)

Any Day Now plays on a carrier channel called Start TV.

https://www.starttv.com/shows/any-day-now

Carrier channels helped keep me sane while working from home. Start TV, H&I, MeTV, Antenna TV, etc... I lost myself in reruns of shows from the 70s through the 90s and she's all over them. Toussaint has had such a long and prolific career. So has Potts. I would LOVE if Annie Potts was able to guest star on this show. In fact, I wish she was playing the DA because the current version isn't working for me. The fact that I call her "the DA" is because I can't be bothered to learn the character's name.

[WendyCR72]

7 hours ago, stonehaven said:

I've only seen Lorraine Touusaint in two things. Any Day Now with Annie Potts (Great show that I can't seem to find anywhere) and Law and Order.

Loved her public defender Shambala Green on Law & Order. She was an awesome foil (and sometimes, ally, see the S1 episode "Indifference", where she gave the info to the prosecution about the scummy father dealing cocaine, which was a factor in his daughter's death!) to Michael Moriarty's Executive Assistant DA Ben Stone. 

If I recall, Lorraine Toussaint returned for a later season episode and interacted with Sam Waterston's EADA Jack McCoy. It was good, but the history factor there was absent.

Pretty cool that both she and Chris Noth (Det. Mike Logan on both the original L&O and L&O: Criminal Intent), are sort of reunited here.

[possibilities]

SShe had a role on Orange is the New Black, also. Not in the  beginning, though. She was introduced part of the way though, so if you watch just for her, you would have to either wait to see her or skip ahead.

[andromeda331]

15 hours ago, marceline said:

I loved when Robyn asked Vi "Do you want me to take care of this?" with regard to the Karen. I wonder what THAT would've looked like. Like, "Is that robe worth your life?"

 

15 hours ago, paigow said:

Or Harry would freeze all her assets and link her social media to Jeffrey Epstein 

 

15 hours ago, marceline said:

And let's not even think of what Mel would do. That woman has no idea how close she came to the abyss.

Now your making me wish we had seen all that. Karen would have flipped out if all that happened to her. I've also decided the kidnapper is going to get beaten up in prison for what she did to the kittens. Prisoners don't take kindly to people who hurt kids or cats.  

[blackwing]

Another great episode.  I liked the plot of the week with the kidnapped mom and child.  So the kidnapper had them tied up in the basement and was going to kill them, and then heard Robyn at the door, so ran up and pretended to be the mom?  I guess a little suspension of disbelief is required... the woman should have appeared more anxious that she almost got caught (and would have corroborated the story that someone just took her son) and I would have thought the mom/son could have done something in the basement to try and attract attention.

Why did the kidnapper have to go to the hospital?  She could have declined treatment and said that the stalker didn't attack her.

Another good week for Delilah and Aunt Vi.  I liked the way they got incorporated into this episode.  I'm still not sure about Karen's motivation.  Did she actually want that robe, or was she just trying to pick a fight and demonstrate her superiority over an older black woman?  So glad to see that Delilah posted on Instagram and made her the next Central Park dogwalker.  She deserved it.  I'm a bit appalled that the two women who were working that shop didn't step in and try to resolve anything.  They just sat there and stared, even after the cops arrived.  You would think that the store manager would have stepped in and tried to figure out what was going on.  I hope that store got embarrassed too and that management apologised to Vi and gave her the robe for free.

Dante has Robyn's cell phone number?  That was her regular iPhone and not a burner phone.  If he has her number, he can figure out who she is.  Although I'm sure we are supposed to believe that she gave him a number that Harry has scrubbed and re-routed to make it impossible to trace her.

On 11/7/2021 at 11:03 PM, possibilities said:

I don't know what that toy is that Dante said his boys like, but I was still taken aback that Robyn assumed it HAD TO BE a boy child who had it. Way to reinforce gender stereotyping and lead yourself into a future unforced error, team! It could have been enough that it was a single mom and a child, especially if the other possible address was not that. Or they could have guessed and acknowledged that it was a gamble, if bith houses had a mom + kid.

I don't think that is gender stereotyping... as others have said, it's a Beyblade.  Basically a top, you can buy attachments to make your top faster/stronger.  Then you battle other kids' tops in a plastic arena.  My son loved these when he was about 6 or 7.  His teacher had an arena and a set of Beyblades in her classroom.  I distinctly remember talking to her about it because we had a lot at home.  She said that all the boys would sometimes fight over it, but the girls never touched it.  Not everything is gender stereotyping.

[Trini]

9 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I'm a bit appalled that the two women who were working that shop didn't step in and try to resolve anything.  They just sat there and stared, even after the cops arrived.  You would think that the store manager would have stepped in and tried to figure out what was going on. 

This is the only part that didn't make sense; a manager definitely would have been involved at some point.

[tennisgurl]

On 11/7/2021 at 11:03 PM, possibilities said:

Way to reinforce gender stereotyping and lead yourself into a future unforced error, team!

This is why you shouldn't assume the gender of your villain, everyone assuming that the stalker had to be a man very nearly ended in disaster. Woman can be deranged stalkers too, true gender equality! 

I thought this was a really good episode, I liked their take on the true crime community. We saw the bad, with their harassments of an innocent man and giving murderers a platform to get attention, and the good, bringing attention to cases that the cops have ignored and helping find information that could be otherwise missed. I figured out pretty quickly that something was up with the woman who they "saved", she was way too chill about her son being kidnapped, but I still thought that it was a good twist. 

I wish that the cops had arrested the Karen for making a false report or disturbing the peace, but I am glad that Delilah blasted her all over social media. She gave the Karen a chance to apologize and now that she refused, she has to deal with the consequences. People like that think that they can do whatever they want and get away with it, so now she has to realize that she cant. I like actually liking Delilah, and I am glad that Lorraine Toussaint got a meaty story. 

I definitely remember all of Robyn's sweaters when I close my eyes, I covet every single one of them.

[JH Lipton]

One thing that Vi got partially wrong:  the cops would talk to Karen first, because she called them.  But they should have talked to Vi without a preconceived idea of who was wrong.

On 11/8/2021 at 4:54 PM, stonehaven said:

I realized how awesome it is to have her and Queen Latifah in the same show.

 

 The whole cast is great, but Toussand and Latifah are the GOATs.

19 hours ago, quirkygal said:

Did she post it? It looked like she air dropped it or shared it with people in the office or sent it to the group of people in the office (real estate people put all their contact info out there and everywhere ).

That would make more sense.  My comment at the time was "the Internet doesn't work like that".

9 hours ago, Trini said:

This is the only part that didn't make sense; a manager definitely would have been involved at some point.

A store like that would have closed-circuit cameras, so the store manager would definitely say something, or Vi could sue her.

[Court]

On 11/8/2021 at 7:26 AM, paigow said:

McCall had no idea what it was - meaning that Delilah has never asked for one.

They weren't around when Delilah would have been the age they become popular at. I can confirm that they become like pokemon and kids are obsessed. Girls like them too.

[Nialla]

On 11/9/2021 at 7:28 PM, JH Lipton said:

A store like that would have closed-circuit cameras, so the store manager would definitely say something, or Vi could sue her.

That was a nitpick for me as well. The store would have video, and staff should have intervened during the incident and talked with the police.

That said, Delilah giving that Karen a chance for redemption while also giving her enough rope to hang herself with was nice wish fulfillment. Made it almost feel like she was channeling her mom.

Considering Vi and Delilah were both wanting to know how to help if Robyn ever got into a jam again, I'm wondering how long it will be until they're working on a case together.

[Sweet Tooth]

I'm really glad the "mom" not seeming frantic that her child was kidnapped wasn't just bad acting. She just seemed so calm, and I thought that was weird. So kudos on the show for making that a clue.

I thought the Karen thing was true to life. We've seen videos pretty much exactly like that play out numerous times. I don't feel it was an exaggeration.

I did think, however, that the proof would be the store cameras and not Delilah's phone. However,  I do feel it's realistic that she would record it, and I'm sure it's a lot quicker to just show that video.

Plus, it would have deprived us of that last scene, which was pretty awesome.

[blackwing]

15 hours ago, Court said:

They weren't around when Delilah would have been the age they become popular at. I can confirm that they become like pokemon and kids are obsessed. Girls like them too.

Yes they were.  I believe Delilah is 15.  My son is nearly 15 and he was obsessed with these things when he was in first grade, which was eight years ago.

[possibilities]

Store cameras don't usually have sound, do they? I thought it was sad but realistic that the staff didn't intervene. 

[MicheleinPhilly]

19 hours ago, Nialla said:

That was a nitpick for me as well. The store would have video, and staff should have intervened during the incident and talked with the police.

That said, Delilah giving that Karen a chance for redemption while also giving her enough rope to hang herself with was nice wish fulfillment. Made it almost feel like she was channeling her mom.

I was actually hoping that Delilah was recording her subsequent interaction with that racist twat where she called her "civilized" and "articulate." 🤬

[Johannah]

Really good episode.

I didn't know the toy was real.  I thought it was something like Lego's and they couldn't use the brand name.  I'm also not sure there was any gender bias.  Dante said, "I guess you never had any boys" because his boys loved them and I think he knows Robyn has a kid, so a bit of an assumption on his part, but minor.  I think after that, they mostly said the woman must have a child.  Or we could be age-biased and the toy was the woman's.  :-)   There was more gender bias in assuming the stalker was a man.

When Robyn "saved" the woman, I thought it was weird.  She was being attacked and someone banged on her door and came crashing through - not the person attacking me, so I'm going to assume they could help and I would call out.  What are the chances I'm going to have simultaneous attackers?  Maybe they'll get possessive and attack each other and I can run away.  Either way, I'm letting the new intruder know where I am.  Not sit on the floor patiently waiting for them to find me.  At the least, I'd be running out the door to try to save my son, no matter how futile that might be.  When I saw it (or anytime I see something like this), I'm never sure if it's a clue or bad writing/acting.

Also, they put out a BOLO - wouldn't they also say they were putting out an Amber Alert?  They are always putting out BOLO's, I think an Amber Alert would have sounded more impactful, and you know everybody gets involved with them.  And it would have been right on the nose, what with the woman being named Amber.

Then, as soon as they knew the woman "saved" was the attacker, why didn't Dante call for police to go directly to her hospital room?  Even if they weren't sure, they could keep an eye on her until they were.  Why weren't they there anyway, in case her 'attacker' returned?  They are always going to the hospital to finish the job.

I thought the video Delilah was going to show the Karen was Aunt Vi's speech in the kitchen.  Awesome speech.  I also thought the woman was going to apologize, but that wouldn't seem real to me.  I hope Delilah did record the speech and posts it.  If Aunt Vi didn't want to be seen, Delilah could post other videos with it.  

Edited November 12, 2021 by Johann
Questions, even rhetorical ones, have question marks. - and some extra thoughts

[Daff]

On 11/8/2021 at 1:27 PM, Silver-hyren said:

I’ve only seen Lorraine Toussaint in villainous roles before. The scenes of Vi and Delilah at the store, and recounting to Robyn in the kitchen later we’re riveting. I knew the Karen wasn’t going to be swayed when Delilah confronted her at the end, and mayyy have cheered out loud when D posted the video. That little chaos grin she gave afterward was just perfect. 

Check out an old show called “Any Day Now” (1998-2002).  Loved her with Annie Potts. Neighbors now, good friends from childhood, it was a sweet show. 

[Daff]

On 11/12/2021 at 4:01 PM, Johann said:

When Robyn "saved" the woman, I thought it was weird

Robyn actually “saved” the perp. Evil woman already had the mother tied up in the basement and pretended to be the victim when the banging on the door started (so, obviously inflicted her own wound, trying to look as pathetic as possible). Remember, all the video of the mom never clearly showed her face-they only knew she was blonde and so was the perp!

[Johannah]

15 minutes ago, Daff said:

Robyn actually “saved” the perp. Evil woman already had the mother tied up in the basement and pretended to be the victim when the banging on the door started (so, obviously inflicted her own wound, trying to look as pathetic as possible). Remember, all the video of the mom never clearly showed her face-they only knew she was blonde and so was the perp!

I know.  That's why I put saved in quotes. I was describing what I thought at first, but since I later found out it was the perp, I put saved in quotes.  Sorry for being unclear.