TV Tropes: Love 'em or Loathe 'em

[Spartan Girl]

I should further elaborate that this trope is often quite harmful to the special needs/terminally ill child as well. Plenty of children who are disabled or on the spectrum that are able to lead healthy independent lives, but not because of the idiot, overattentive parents like the ones in the Jodi Piccoult novels that @Wiendish Fitch knows and despises. One such example had a mother that would rather groom her poor neglected child to be his autistic brother’s caretaker than let said autistic son learn to drive like he begged numerous times.

The irony is that these kinds of self-martyring parents are so convinced they know what’s best for their children that they refuse to take advice from experts that really DO know how to help their children. So it’s not really about what’s best for their children after all, it’s about what THEY want. Norma Bates pulled that crap all the time, and look what happened to her.

[Bastet]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:43 AM, Spartan Girl said:

The belief that giving your all to shelter and coddle your special needs/terminally ill child while neglecting your other children with the excuse that “they’re tough and smart, they can cope” is somehow acceptable.

That Adam and Kristina did this with Max at Haddie's expense and were held up by the show as model parents was one of the main reasons I did not last long with Parenthood.  They were absolute shit as parents -- to Max as well as Haddie, since by expecting the entire world to cater to his needs rather than teaching him coping skills to function in the world as it actually exists they made him downright insufferable and he's going to pay the price for that whenever he's outside the entitled bubble they created for him.

And, okay, that happens.  But, as I said, they weren't narratively presented as shitty parents or even well-intentioned parents who went horribly awry, they were held up as the gold standard their dysfunctional siblings strove to keep up with.  The hell?  They ALL* sucked (again, why I didn't watch long -- it should have been called How to Fail at Parenthood).

*Less so Jasmine and Crosby, since theirs was the only household not being dictated by a kid; Jabbar actually had some rules and resulting manners.  But that was mostly Jasmine, so, yeah, the Bravermans all sucked as parents.

Edited November 4, 2023 by Bastet

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Bastet said:

That Adam and Kristina did this with Max at Haddie's expense and were held up by the show as model parents was one of the main reasons I did not last long with Parenthood.  They were absolute shit as parents -- to Max as well as Haddie, since by expecting the world to cater itself to his needs rather than teaching him coping skills to function in the world as it actually exists they made him downright insufferable.  And, okay, that happens.  But, as I said, they weren't narratively presented as shitty parents, they were held up as the gold standard their dysfunctional siblings strove to keep up with.  The hell?  They ALL* sucked (again, why I didn't watch long -- it should have been called How to Fail at Parenthood).

*Less so Jasmine and Crosby, since theirs was the only household not being dictated by a kid.  But that was mostly Jasmine, so, yeah, the Bravermans all suck as parents.

More Max then Haddie. Haddie once listed all the times Max ruined something for her. Pretty much her entire life. Not only did they never make any of it up to her. They also somehow failed to realize Max had issues before it was pointed out to them in the first season. From then on instead of helping Max learn live in the world with his Asperger's they expected and demanded the world revolve around Max. Whatever he wanted they though he should have it. A girl mad at Max because he filmed her crying? Not Max's fault. Trying to pressure another girl to date Max because he liked her even though she wasn't interested in. Max going after the guy she was interested in? Not Max's fault. Max purposely gets himself kicked out of class so that he could do what he wanted? It was the school's fault and Adam and Kristina decided they had to start a new school for Max. 

[Spartan Girl]

4 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

More Max then Haddie. Haddie once listed all the times Max ruined something for her. Pretty much her entire life. Not only did they never make any of it up to her. They also somehow failed to realize Max had issues before it was pointed out to them in the first season. From then on instead of helping Max learn live in the world with his Asperger's they expected and demanded the world revolve around Max. Whatever he wanted they though he should have it. A girl mad at Max because he filmed her crying? Not Max's fault. Trying to pressure another girl to date Max because he liked her even though she wasn't interested in. Max going after the guy she was interested in? Not Max's fault. Max purposely gets himself kicked out of class so that he could do what he wanted? It was the school's fault and Adam and Kristina decided they had to start a new school for Max. 

What the hell? I’ve never watched this show, but it sounds like they were basically enabling a stalker!

[Bastet]

On 11/3/2023 at 11:18 PM, andromeda331 said:

Haddie once listed all the times Max ruined something for her. Pretty much her entire life. Not only did they never make any of it up to her. They also somehow failed to realize Max had issues before it was pointed out to them in the first season.

I absolutely love when Adam tries to apologize to Haddie for them completely forgetting her championship game because they were too busy shoehorning recently-diagnosed Max into a school that was already full (and this, being for kids with special needs, is an environment where student:teacher ratio is crucial, but, don't you know, once they get the administrator to meet Max for five minutes, she realizes he's the greatest thing since sliced bread and simply must have him in her school), saying he knows it's been a rough "couple of weeks" for her too.  She gives him this fantastic You are a blithering idiot and I cannot believe you are my father look and corrects that it's been years, not weeks, and she has no earthly idea why they are acting surprised by the diagnosis since it has been obvious since Max was quite young there was something going on with him and, oh BTW, she's always been the one who's had to suffer because of it.

It was the only moment of honesty in the entirety of the Max storyline that I watched.

Edited November 8, 2023 by Bastet

[andromeda331]

On 11/4/2023 at 4:19 AM, Spartan Girl said:

What the hell? I’ve never watched this show, but it sounds like they were basically enabling a stalker!

Pretty much. Max is going to end up in jail one day because his parents' taught him he should get whatever he wants. 

14 hours ago, Bastet said:

I absolutely love when Adam tries to apologize to Haddie for them completely forgetting her championship game because they were too busy shoehorning recently-diagnosed Max into a school that was already full (and this, being for kids with special needs, is an environment where student:teacher ratio is crucial, but, don't you know, once they get the administrator to meet Max for five minutes, she realizes he's the greatest thing since sliced bread and simply must have him in her school), saying he knows it's been a rough "couple of weeks" for her too.  She gives him this fantastic You are a blithering idiot and I cannot believe you are my father look and corrects that it's been years, not weeks, and she has no earthly idea why they are acting surprised by the diagnosis since it has been obvious since Maz was quite young there was something going on with him and, oh BTW, she's always been the one who's had to suffer because of it.

It was the only moment of honesty in the entirety of the Max storyline that I watched.

This is that scene

Adam: And I know with everything that has been going on with Max, you've been having a rough couple of weeks, too.

Haddie: Weeks? Dad. Try years. What? It's been years, Dad. Why is everybody acting like this Max thing is big news? He knocked over the cake at my 10th birthday because he was afraid of the candles. We had to change rooms because he couldn't be by the air conditioner. Uh, whenever he wants to watch TV, we all have to give up. It's like It's never-ending. And ever since I can remember, it's been all about Max.  

While Adam does admit Haddie's right. He doesn't do anything about it. Max continues to get anything he wants. It contiunes to be all about Max.

 

[Blergh]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

Pretty much. Max is going to end up in jail one day because his parents' taught him he should get whatever he wants. 

This is that scene

Adam: And I know with everything that has been going on with Max, you've been having a rough couple of weeks, too.

Haddie: Weeks? Dad. Try years. What? It's been years, Dad. Why is everybody acting like this Max thing is big news? He knocked over the cake at my 10th birthday because he was afraid of the candles. We had to change rooms because he couldn't be by the air conditioner. Uh, whenever he wants to watch TV, we all have to give up. It's like It's never-ending. And ever since I can remember, it's been all about Max.  

While Adam does admit Haddie's right. He doesn't do anything about it. Max continues to get anything he wants. It contiunes to be all about Max.

 

Yep! And IMO, their constantly placating him wound up crippling him WORSE than his actual neuro divergent condition! Moreover, it seemed Adam but especially Kristina considered themselves ENTITLED to have the whole world cater to THEM due to being Max's parents! 

What's truly maddening and sad about all the above is that the show had given itself the opportunity in its six season broadcasting  to  have sympathetically depicted  the challenges of raising a high functioning autistic child and how his parents met said challenges with progress being made (even with some setbacks involved) and COULD have easily had the have been three be sympathetic characters while educating the viewing public.  It could have been similar to the arc of  Down's Syndrome child Corky and his parents  in Life Goes On (1989-1993).

Instead with , all its attempts at throwing Adam and Kristina nonstop pity parties who just threw their hands up instead of considering that Max had ANY capacity to attempt to control his outbursts much less make make the best of his life, it just revived the ugly stereotypes of  neurodivergent folks being  unredeemable monsters who zero potential for improvement AND their parents being  enablers to them and bullies to the rest of the world!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Spartan Girl]

1 hour ago, Blergh said:

Yep! And IMO, their constantly placating him wound up crippling him WORSE than his actual neuro divergent condition! Moreover, it seemed Adam but especially Kristina considered themselves ENTITLED to have the whole world cater to THEM due to being Max's parents! 

What's truly maddening and sad about all the above is that the show had given itself the opportunity in its six season broadcasting  to  have sympathetically depicted  the challenges of raising a high functioning autistic child and how his parents met said challenges with progress being made (even with some setbacks involved) and COULD have easily had the have been three be sympathetic characters while educating the viewing public.  It could have been similar to the arc of  Down's Syndrome child Corky and his parents  in Life Goes On (1989-1993).

Instead with , all its attempts at throwing Adam and Kristina nonstop pity parties who just threw their hands up instead of considering that Max had ANY capacity to attempt to control his outbursts much less make make the best of his life, it just revived the ugly stereotypes of  neurodivergent folks being  unredeemable monsters who zero potential for improvement AND their parents being  enablers to them and bullies to the rest of the world!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Think Max was a hideous example of a neurodivergent stereotype? I’ll raise you Tom on Secret Life of the American Teenager. EVERYONE on that show was an asshole, but Tom was one of the worst. He was a spoiled brat that treated everyone like shit, and nobody told him off for it because, you guessed it, he was on the spectrum. JFC.

I don’t know what’s worst, the neurodivergent characters who are coddled assholes or the ones that are written as Tragically Too Good for This Sinful Earth, courtesy of “writers” like Jodi Piccoult. Either way, they’re both insulting.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Spartan Girl

[Bastet]

16 hours ago, Blergh said:

Instead with , all its attempts at throwing Adam and Kristina nonstop pity parties who just threw their hands up instead of considering that Max had ANY capacity to attempt to control his outbursts much less make make the best of his life, it just revived the ugly stereotypes of  neurodivergent folks being  unredeemable monsters who zero potential for improvement AND their parents being  enablers to them and bullies to the rest of the world!

Made all the worse because the reason this story existed is the show's creator has a kid with ASD.  Way to make your family look like shit, dude.

And, OMG, in researching to confirm my recollection of the above is accurate, I discovered that Adam and Kristina went on to have another kid after I quit watching.  Great, someone else they can completely ignore.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Bastet

[andromeda331]

On 11/5/2023 at 6:24 AM, Blergh said:

Yep! And IMO, their constantly placating him wound up crippling him WORSE than his actual neuro divergent condition! Moreover, it seemed Adam but especially Kristina considered themselves ENTITLED to have the whole world cater to THEM due to being Max's parents! 

What's truly maddening and sad about all the above is that the show had given itself the opportunity in its six season broadcasting  to  have sympathetically depicted  the challenges of raising a high functioning autistic child and how his parents met said challenges with progress being made (even with some setbacks involved) and COULD have easily had the have been three be sympathetic characters while educating the viewing public.  It could have been similar to the arc of  Down's Syndrome child Corky and his parents  in Life Goes On (1989-1993).

Instead with , all its attempts at throwing Adam and Kristina nonstop pity parties who just threw their hands up instead of considering that Max had ANY capacity to attempt to control his outbursts much less make make the best of his life, it just revived the ugly stereotypes of  neurodivergent folks being  unredeemable monsters who zero potential for improvement AND their parents being  enablers to them and bullies to the rest of the world!

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's what I really hoped the storyline would be when Max was diagnosed in seasonb one. That would have been a really interesting story for all three of them. Learning to raise a child with Asperger's and being the child with Asperger's learning how to live with it. I really wanted that story. It is still very rare to have a child with a disability. Instead they went the worse way possible.

[Notabug]

On 11/5/2023 at 1:34 PM, Bastet said:

Made all the worse because the reason this story existed is the show's creator has a kid with ASD.  Way to make your family look like shit, dude.

And, OMG, in researching to confirm my recollection of the above is accurate, I discovered that Adam and Kristina went on to have another kid after I quit watching.  Great, someone else they can completely ignore.

And they pretty much did ignore her.  Max' story was a trainwreck. There was an episode where his aunt was at work, using a computer to edit photos (she was working at a photography studio).  Max arrives, wants to use the computer for something or other and literally shoves her out of the chair and starts working.  And the whole family simply lets him do it.  No apology, no boundary setting, just let him have access to a business' computer and potentially losing or ruining the work she was doing at the time. Not to mention the physical assault on his aunt.

As mentioned above, Max decided to punch a kid because the girl Max liked wanted to be with this guy.  Not only did Kristina, who ran the school for autistic kids that Max attended, refuse to punish Max; she essentially blew off the kid's parents who were then left with no choice but to withdraw their kid from the school.  Once again, Max assaults someone and is rewarded for it.

Sorry if some of the details are incorrect, it's been a long time since I watched.

If anything, Max Braverman's storyline was an abject lesson on how NOT to deal with a kid on the spectrum.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Notabug

[Gharlane]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:05 AM, proserpina65 said:

Like Ohiopirate said, local authorities notify the authorities in the next jurisdiction and the state authorities as well.

If memory serves, the law enforcement in the counties adjacent to Hazzard were even more corrupt than Boss Hogg.

[Wiendish Fitch]

I'm really fed up with the trope of a character talking to a late character's ghost. I think it's meant to be all symbolic, cinematic, or whatever, but I find it tedious and silly. Once in a while they can do something cool with it, like in Netflix's Painkiller,

Spoiler

when Arthur Sackler's ghost beats the ever-living shit out of worthless weasel Richard Sackler, even it is, obviously, just in Richard's head

but it's rarely worth it.

[Spartan Girl]

55 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I'm really fed up with the trope of a character talking to a late character's ghost. I think it's meant to be all symbolic, cinematic, or whatever, but I find it tedious and silly. Once in a while they can do something cool with it, like in Netflix's Painkiller,

  Hide contents

when Arthur Sackler's ghost beats the ever-living shit out of worthless weasel Richard Sackler, even it is, obviously, just in Richard's head

but it's rarely worth it.

Ah, so you hated that part of The Crown too.

[Blergh]

7 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I'm really fed up with the trope of a character talking to a late character's ghost. I think it's meant to be all symbolic, cinematic, or whatever, but I find it tedious and silly. Once in a while they can do something cool with it, like in Netflix's Painkiller,

  Reveal spoiler

when Arthur Sackler's ghost beats the ever-living shit out of worthless weasel Richard Sackler, even it is, obviously, just in Richard's head

but it's rarely worth it.

Agree! As much as I like the performer Blake Clark in other things,  his character Chet Hunter was such a rotten, manipulative character that it dragged down both Boy Meets World and Girl Meets World  (though the latter show was already the pits)to have had had Mr. Clark  revive the character as allegedly sainted/friendly ghost instead of  actually having his son mourn Chet as he'd been instead of as he wished Chet had been!

[Wiendish Fitch]

8 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Ah, so you hated that part of The Crown too.

You got me! Yeah, I thought that was just lame. 

[Spartan Girl]

On 11/24/2023 at 7:46 PM, Wiendish Fitch said:

You got me! Yeah, I thought that was just lame. 

So lame. It was just a cheap way to give Charles the closure he had neither earned nor deserved. Flashbacks of all their moments in the series would’ve packed a much more emotional punch.

[andromeda331]

I'm glad I skipped season 6 of the Crown. I hated the past two seasons and I just know I'll hate it. 

[Blergh]

If Charles was supposed to have had some kind of encounter with Diana's ghost, why not have also had encounters with the ghosts of Lord Louis Mountbatten, the Queen Mother, Princess Margaret, or even his comparatively recently deceased parents? I'm sure any or all the above would have had something to say and would have been just as real and legit as any mumbo jumbo with Diana!  I know The Crown wasn't supposed to have been a documentary but that whole deal with those two after her death significantly trashed its cred as being supposedly close to the ballpark re the behind the scenes lives of the Windsors.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Blergh

[Spartan Girl]

A character makes a drunken speech at a wedding in which their air out their marital/romantic grievances. Offenders of this trope include Lorelei Gilmore, Marge Simpson, and even Xander’s own parents on Buffy.*

It should be a cardinal rule for wedding guests not to make someone else’s wedding all about yourself. Just once, I’d love such a character, instead of getting sympathy, to get told off for making a spectacle of himself/herself and humiliating their spouse. That’s what should have happened to Lorelei Gilmore when she pulled that crap at Lane’s wedding instead of the townies covering her ass as usual.

*Much as I hate Xander, I’m almost glad he wasn’t around to see them use his wedding as an excuse to humiliate each other. Though any sympathy I had for him was gone after leaving Anya at the altar.

[Bastet]

5 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

A character makes a drunken speech at a wedding in which their air out their marital/romantic grievances.

I take your overall point, but I nonetheless enjoy the hell out of some of them within the realm of fiction (hell, I'll admit I'd laugh at some of those in real life, too).  I love Jackie's at Crystal and Ed's wedding on Roseanne; it is so perfectly her in all its contradiction.  The guy videotaping the reception comes to her table and insists everyone say something for posterity.  So Jackie slurs this out to Crystal:

You probably think you're better than me 'cause you're married.  Well, you're not.  I could be married if I wanted to, but there's far more to life than being married.  Marriage is one more way for men to enslave women.  So get out of the cave, Crystal, this is the 20th -- [irritated at being interrupted by someone off-camera]  WHAT?  [no longer irritated]  Oh, okay.  [turns back to camera, gleefully]  You're gonna throw the bouquet now!

Edited December 4, 2023 by Bastet

[Affogato]

On 8/7/2014 at 1:12 PM, legaleagle53 said:

 

That's actually a valid literary device.  It's called the "Historic Present," and its purpose is to make the narrative more vivid, in order to make the reader feel as though he or she really were there as an eyewitness to the events being related.  The Romans, for example, used it quite frequently in prose to great effect.

It is common in Noir. 

[Ambrosefolly]

There is a weird troupe of older people hooking up with their friend's barely legal kid, or kid in general. Especially if they knew said kid since they were an actual child. The older I get, the creepier it becomes. I've watched plenty of boys turn into young men, and  a part of my mind will always see them as those children. I feel like their aunt because I've been interacting with them since they were very young. I've mentioned in other threads my distaste for Dr. Richard Burke and Monica on Friends. It was in that Sharon Lawerence/Brian Austin Green movie a million years ago and more recently Women Who Kill between Lucy Liu and Leo Howard's characters. I am not totally against the age gaps if, bare minimum, if the older isn't a close friend of one of the parents, and they meet when both are adults, but if both aren't checked off, I dip.

Edited December 28, 2023 by Ambrosefolly

[Apathy]

Quote

 

A million years ago, back on TWoP, someone had this to say about mean comedy: does the target have it coming?

If the answer is yes, then I'll gladly laugh at their misery. If not, then it feels like Genovese syndrome, and I feel complicit somehow, even if it's only fictional. 

I can also expand on this point: does the bullied victim get their own back? Get revenge, triumph in some way, anything? Does someone stand up for them? Do the bullies get any kind of comeuppance? Showing my age, but I remember a brilliant episode of Tiny Toon Adventures where Babs subjects Shirley's bullying ballet classmates to a hilariously humiliating routine of slapstick violence during a recital. The mean girls suffer brutal indignities, but Shirley comes out on top, earning enthusiastic applause.

Or, taking the more complex, adult route, is the victim actually sympathetic? Take Greg from Succession. I agree it's appalling and wrong how Tom abuses him... but it's only because Tom is taking his gross, petty insecurities out on a weaker man. That is horrid behavior, and I don't condone it one bit. On the other hand, Greg is assuredly not sympathetic; he's a grasping, weaselly little social climber. He doesn't get pushed around because he lacks confidence, he gets pushed around because he lacks character. That's a crucial difference, and it creates layers in the interactions between him and Tom. In fact, that's true with the majority of the characters, which is what I admired about the show.

Yes, I made references to both Tiny Toons and Succession. That's just the kind of hairpin I am.

 

Quoting the above from the Unpopular TV Opinions thread because I agree the butt-monkey trope can work for the reasons stated here, AND if there's more than one butt-monkey. Dee from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia checks off all those boxes: she's just as bad as the rest of the gang, the latter even acknowledge that bullying her isn't fun if she doesn't fight back in "The Gang Broke Dee," and sometimes Charlie, Mac or even Dennis will take over that role for an episode assuming it's not one of their many victims like Rickety Cricket.

[Trini]

TV has got to start getting away from 'Genius/Highly Skilled Protagonist With a Tragic, Mysterious Past (who can help everyone except themselves)'.

I'm ready for some well-adjusted detectives again, thanks. (Still miss you, God Friended Me !)

[Zella]

4 hours ago, Trini said:

TV has got to start getting away from 'Genius/Highly Skilled Protagonist With a Tragic, Mysterious Past (who can help everyone except themselves)'.

I'm ready for some well-adjusted detectives again, thanks. (Still miss you, God Friended Me !)

Oh God me too. I love messy train wreck characters usually, but I like my detectives to be functional adults without personal drama or horribly traumatic backstories who also get along with their coworkers. LOL That's true of both TV and books. Just do your detecting without being an angsty, troubled drama llama or an asshole! 

Edited February 29 by Zella

[Trini]

21 minutes ago, Zella said:

Oh God me too. I love messy train wreck, characters usually, but I like my detectives to be functional adults without personal drama or horribly traumatic backstories who also get along with their coworkers. LOL That's true of both TV and books. Just do your detecting without being an angsty, troubled drama llama or an asshole! 

It's not even that I'm against this type of character, in theory, but lately it seems like EVERY new show is this SAME character.

Edited February 29 by Trini

[Mabinogia]

21 hours ago, Trini said:

It's not even that I'm against this type of character, in theory, but lately it seems like EVERY new show is this SAME character.

The trouble is, once something is a huge hit, all the studios try to make their own version of it. It oversaturates the market. It seems like maybe 5 people in Hollywood have the ability to come up with fresh new ideas and the other 500 or so just steal those ideas and grind them into the ground until there is nothing left. 

[DrSpaceman73]

One I realized last night watching King of queens. 

Two people join a book club./class

One loves it the other doesn't and never reads the book but lies about it. Until they are caught by not knowing a detail of tge book the other person tests them on

And it's always an 19th century English book like Jane eyre. 

Friends and king of queens (later) did almost the same storyline on this. I'm sure others have too

At least on Friends they do the twist with Monica joining the class and being the know it all student phoebe regrets which is funny

[Shannon L.]

I think the one I hate the most is when one character refuses to tell their spouse/partner/friend/parent the whole story of what's happening with them (or tell them anything at all) and it makes for, at best, a lot of confusion and, at worst, a lot of anger between the characters.

[Mabinogia]

8 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

I think the one I hate the most is when one character refuses to tell their spouse/partner/friend/parent the whole story of what's happening with them (or tell them anything at all) and it makes for, at best, a lot of confusion and, at worst, a lot of anger between the characters.

I just finished a show where up until the final ep, the show was amazing, writing was sharp the actors were on pointe, but then the entire final ep was basically what you said and I spent the whole hour shouting to just forking tell him why you're pissed!!!!!! 

Spoiler

It was Mr. & Mrs. Smith and it was painfully obvious that John didn't do what Jane thought and was trying to kill him over. It was so frustrating because up till then the show was doing a great job of avoiding being that contrived. And this just was so obviously their way of trying to do the scene where they try to kill each other which I could have lived without because it shit all over 7 episodes of building up this amazingly complex relationship. I mean, how do you get over your wife literally trying to blow you up? 

 

[Spartan Girl]

On 3/2/2024 at 10:07 AM, Shannon L. said:

I think the one I hate the most is when one character refuses to tell their spouse/partner/friend/parent the whole story of what's happening with them (or tell them anything at all) and it makes for, at best, a lot of confusion and, at worst, a lot of anger between the characters.

And then the person whose left in the dark is made out to be the asshole when it all could have been avoided their partner/friend/parent had just been honest from the get go.

Genie said it best:

 

[Spartan Girl]

A trope I hate on a lot of crime shows like Criminal Minds and SVU is when the mother blames the father for the child being kidnapped and/or murdered even when it wasn’t their fault. I know there’s truth on television with this and grief can turn anyone into monsters, but Jesus Christ, it’s not a free pass to be a terrible person. In the “Victims” episode of SVU the parents of a girl Stabler rescued split up because the mother kept blaming the father for what happened and he couldn’t take it anymore. The mother attempts to stalk and kill the kidnapper/rapist when he’s realized on parole, but someone else beats her to it. She later laments that it didn’t make a difference because her daughter was still traumatized and her family still in ruins. Well, gee, lady, that last part is kind of YOUR fault.

A more recent example was the infamous Maddie saga that Liv took oh so personally. Maddie’s poor dad tries to hang himself because his wife—who everyone on the SVU thread agrees was the worst— kept blaming him for Maddie getting taken. She then has to audacity to wonder if it’s a her fault, and St. Liv of course coddles her to no end. Ugh.

Edited April 30 by Spartan Girl

[Cloud9Shopper]

A crossover between a “hate ‘em” trope and things on TV that make me irate. The wedding that almost never happens or runs very late because shenanigans occur that keep the bride or groom from getting there on time and almost postponing the ceremony. 

I mean, Mark and Elizabeth’s wedding on ER is held up for ages because Mark is stuck in traffic in the pouring rain and then had to help a car accident victim. Then we only get to see two seconds of the start of the ceremony at the end of the episode. 

Kit and Bell on The Resident are held up because Bell gets called into work and Kit is dealing with something with the governor, who was that season’s villain.

I haven’t gotten to this yet because I’m only on S4 of 9-1-1 but I’m vaguely spoiled that something happens to Chim on or near his and Maddie’s wedding day and he ends up in the hospital. I mean, can’t these two just have a normal wedding day after all they’ve been through or nah? 

At least on SVU, Rollins and Carisi got married somewhat normally? (Although her wedding dress was totally unflattering and didn’t seem her style..it looked like she borrowed it from a Duggar or Bates girl. But the ceremony was quick and didn’t turn into a very shenanigans filled episode of SVU where Rollins is waiting for Carisi to get to the church because he’s giving some big closing statement or gets shot in court.) 

Also, I’m still mad at the ER writers 23 years later for not giving us the Mark/Elizabeth wedding but they made us all sit through Abby and Luka’s wedding where Abby had on an ugly dress not even picked by her, did her hair like she had just gotten out of bed to go to Walmart, and didn’t even seem to want to be there (and was screaming and snapping at everyone for half the episode, including the officiant and her very soon-to-be husband…I’m surprised she didn’t bark and snap at her kid too) but Luka had to force her into it. Really? I had to watch that instead of two mature adults who actually loved each other?

Edited July 14 by Cloud9Shopper

[Palimelon]

I liked Luka and Abby's wedding.

[Bastet]

Weddings are boring as all get out in real life (the reception might be fun, but the ceremony is something people endure), and worse on TV.  The wacky hijinx in getting there are often too much, and I'd like a better balance, but I'll take emphasizing the madness over sitting through a slew of realistic ceremonies any day. 

[Palimelon]

I think thats why some couples do destination weddings…at least the people in attendance get a nice view during the ceremony (having been to a few myself, I can say it helps).

[Cloud9Shopper]

5 hours ago, Palimelon said:

I liked Luka and Abby's wedding.

I thought it was just another showcase of why Abby didn’t deserve to be loved or to have a family. She acted like a complete brat for half of the episode and yet Luka still stood up there and drooled over her at the end of the day. He could have done way better than marrying and impregnating her, and her attitude about the wedding and her refusal to plan it in the episodes prior (slamming a binder to the floor and stroking away) showed she wasn’t ready to be married. They should have just gone to the courthouse, or Luka should have bailed on the relationship and taken the kid away from her too so he could have an actual supportive partner rather than dead weight who shrieked like a hyena on her wedding day. 

[Palimelon]

I dunno, I liked Abby and Luka as a couple. I liked their wedding too.

[supposebly]

I just was on a wedding yesterday and it was nice. Not boring at all. The bilingual English and Portuguese ceremony was less than an hour. No hijinx though, things went smoothly.

A lot less boring than the church weddings I know from Germany. You had to endure mass in addition to the actual ceremony.

 

[Raja]

Of course TV characters, with the exception of the few devout Catholics are rarely in the High Church tradition, even if many of the wedding rituals have their roots in being part of a community's general religious service

[Mabinogia]

I'm not a fan of weddings or tv weddings. The only two I can say I ever really loved where...

Cruz and Eden's wedding on Santa Barbara. I adored her dress (though looking back at it now, it was a LOT but I was young then) and the location was to die for!

Niles and Daphne's triple wedding on Frasier. They are one of my all time favorite couples, so to see them finally get married, and for it to be because she just couldn't wait anymore, and then to have them have so many weddings Niles was just running through his vows like a laundry list always cracks me up. And Martin, at the end, tears me up every time. 

I think, though, that since most of my favorite pairings are not cannon, therefore, those who do get married are usually pairs I just don't care about, tv wedding are not quite for me. I didn't give a toss about Cruz and Eden as a couple, I just thought the location, on a cliff overlooking the ocean, was stunning. Niles and Daphne might actually be the only tv couple I adored that got married. I honestly can't think of any others. Ben and Leslie from Parks and Rec maybe, but I can't remember if they had a wedding, so if they didn't, I clearly didn't care much for it. lol

[Blergh]

FWIW, one of my fave TV weddings was the 1968 wedding of the former middle son Robbie Douglas  (the late Don Grady[Agretti] )with the fetching collegian Katie Miller (Tina Cole)  on My Three Sons.

For one thing it showed the dynamics of an interesting extended family on her side reminiscing about family history, while preparing for the latest wedding. I also liked how the brides'  extended family and bridesmaids carefully strategized with military precision each step as they were getting ready for the big moment giving themselves plenty of time to get everything perfect.

In contrast Robbie and the rest of the all-male Douglas clan frantically woke up just an hour and a half before the big event in a panic  and had to quickly clean themselves up and get suited up before racing to the church while being worried about their missing family dog [which was where the bulk of the sitcom episode's humor arose].

Of course, the two parties came together (and so did the family dog Tramp at the last minute in the church itself) and they had an otherwise conventional and uneventful ceremony with the whole wedding party looking immaculate despite the male half of it having been zonked to the world 90 minutes earlier.

P.S. Bonus points for them actually using a hithero unseen venue to conduct the wedding instead of a regular set (e.g. a communal apartment, an office, cafe,etc.) which few folks in real life would opt to use to tie the knot.

[Notabug]

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I'm not a fan of weddings or tv weddings. The only two I can say I ever really loved where...

Cruz and Eden's wedding on Santa Barbara. I adored her dress (though looking back at it now, it was a LOT but I was young then) and the location was to die for!

Niles and Daphne's triple wedding on Frasier. They are one of my all time favorite couples, so to see them finally get married, and for it to be because she just couldn't wait anymore, and then to have them have so many weddings Niles was just running through his vows like a laundry list always cracks me up. And Martin, at the end, tears me up every time. 

I think, though, that since most of my favorite pairings are not cannon, therefore, those who do get married are usually pairs I just don't care about, tv wedding are not quite for me. I didn't give a toss about Cruz and Eden as a couple, I just thought the location, on a cliff overlooking the ocean, was stunning. Niles and Daphne might actually be the only tv couple I adored that got married. I honestly can't think of any others. Ben and Leslie from Parks and Rec maybe, but I can't remember if they had a wedding, so if they didn't, I clearly didn't care much for it. lol

Ben and Leslie on P&R had a last minute wedding, planned on the fly after they decided to get married on the night of the Parks and Rec gala.  Leslie's dress wasn't ready, so her best friend, Ann, created a dress for her using paperwork from the legislation Leslie was involved with over the years in government and it was pretty cool. Ultimately, they got married in the Parks and Rec office at City Hall with just their coworkers present. It was delightful and very much in keeping with the characters.

I'm another non-fan of Abby from ER.  Also, although I think Luka's heart was in the right place, I didn't find it the least bit romantic that he bulldozed her into marrying him right then and there by setting everything up without her knowledge.  Creepy and controlling in real life.  Abby herself with the constant whining and complaining had worn out her welcome for me long before them.  She behaved like an out of control toddler throwing a tantrum through most of the episode.  If you don't want to marry the guy, just leave, idiot, instead of hanging around and subjecting the rest of the world to your misery.  Sort of like her behavior in almost every other episode.

[JustHereForFood]

I generally don't like if the series ends with a wedding from a social perspective, as if that is the big moment our lives all lead up to and then we're done. But on the other hand, I like it when characters who go through so much shit get a break and a happy ending and I like a nice celebration scene, so if that is the case, I can't complain much. I loved Nomi and Amanita's wedding in Sense8 finale for example. 

I also have a twisted soft spot for TV weddings that are in some way "dark", like if it's a purely political pact to gain power, or there is something sinister going on behind the scenes that we as the audience know about, but some characters don't. Like Phoebe and Cole's wedding on Charmed when he was the Source and she didn't know. Twisted, I know, and not something I would approve of in real life, but fascinating on TV. 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Notabug said:

Ultimately, they got married in the Parks and Rec office at City Hall with just their coworkers present. It was delightful and very much in keeping with the characters.

Yeah, I can't think of anywhere more fitting For Leslie Knope to get married than City Hall. I'm sad I don't remember that as I tend to prefer the "it all goes wrong and they make do" kind of weddings, no tele, not so much in real life. 

[Annber03]

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Niles and Daphne's triple wedding on Frasier. They are one of my all time favorite couples, so to see them finally get married, and for it to be because she just couldn't wait anymore, and then to have them have so many weddings Niles was just running through his vows like a laundry list always cracks me up. And Martin, at the end, tears me up every time. 

I liked that one, too :). JJ and Will's wedding on "Criminal Minds" was also nice - had a bittersweet tinge to it, because of everything with Emily, but still, it was a nice moment to see everyone together and happy and celebratory. 

Max and 99's weddiing on "Get Smart" was fun, too, because of how a case was affecting Max's efforts to get there. The bit where they're stepping over KAOS agents at the altar is hilarious and so very them :D. 

I don't mind weddings in and of themselves on TV, they can be fun and entertaining and I like seeing what kinds of crazy stuff the couple has to deal with on the wedding day. But yeah, I also want the weddings to fit the specific couple in question, and honor what makes them such a great couple and show why viewers are excited to see them tie the knot. 

And yeah, I don't need every single last moment of a wedding. Just the main highlights, and then let's see them celebrating and having their fun with everyone. 

[Mrsmaul2021]

7 hours ago, Notabug said:

 

I'm another non-fan of Abby from ER.  Also, although I think Luka's heart was in the right place, I didn't find it the least bit romantic that he bulldozed her into marrying him right then and there by setting everything up without her knowledge.  Creepy and controlling in real life.  Abby herself with the constant whining and complaining had worn out her welcome for me long before them.  She behaved like an out of control toddler throwing a tantrum through most of the episode.  If you don't want to marry the guy, just leave, idiot, instead of hanging around and subjecting the rest of the world to your misery.  Sort of like her behavior in almost every other episode.

 

 

I personally think people are reading too much into the Luka and Abby wedding.  There is no doubt in my mind that Abby and Luka loved one another. Especially after having survived the Curtis Aems incident and renewing their commitment(Abby asked Luka to officially propose to her). The creators said they wanted the anti wedding, whatever the ^ that meant 😒  It was suppose to be comical. I guess the humor didn't land with many and Abby wasn't kicking and screaming, she was rightfully annoyed, All of it lasted maybe 10-15 minutes in the entire episode., 

[Cloud9Shopper]

16 hours ago, Notabug said:

I'm another non-fan of Abby from ER.  Also, although I think Luka's heart was in the right place, I didn't find it the least bit romantic that he bulldozed her into marrying him right then and there by setting everything up without her knowledge.  Creepy and controlling in real life.  Abby herself with the constant whining and complaining had worn out her welcome for me long before them.  She behaved like an out of control toddler throwing a tantrum through most of the episode.  If you don't want to marry the guy, just leave, idiot, instead of hanging around and subjecting the rest of the world to your misery.  Sort of like her behavior in almost every other episode.

Off topic but can you imagine being her kid and hearing their “love story.”

”Well honey, I had an abortion once before and never really wanted kids again, but then I just had to keep you when I got accidentally knocked up even though all I did was cry and mope when I got the positive pregnancy test but your father thought I should keep you and it would be all rainbows and sunshine from here on out. So we both agreed while looking out at the river with mopey expressions. Oh, and when we got married, your father planned the whole thing behind me back and told me I should marry him right here and now! Did I also mention that on our first date he killed a guy, and after we were together about a year the first time, he told me I wasn’t that pretty and wasn’t that special? So of course I had to marry him and have you four years later, even though I fully regret ever giving birth to you.” 

[Palimelon]

Quote

There is no doubt in my mind that Abby and Luka loved one another.

Same here.

Quote

I guess the humor didn't land with many

Indeed.

Quote

All of it lasted maybe 10-15 minutes in the entire episode.

Indeed as well.