S06.E14: Tossing Salads and Spilling Tea (Bags)

[RealReality]

15 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

 

And sorry but I don't buy for a second that Candiace had no clue about Mia's mother. She knew EXACTLY what she was doing when she went there. And that fake, "oh if I knew, I'd have just talked about her big hands and feet" was more bullshit. Because the fact is, as someone noted in last week's thread, Candiace kept getting angrier and digging lower and lower the more Mia was NOT reacting to her. So when the "pimp, hoe, etc." didn't phase Mia, she went for the mother shade.

Why - if she supposedly had no clue about her mother. And what was that bullshit about the group keep coming for Dorothy...when and who? Like I said, Candiace at this point just seems like an angry, unhinged brat which might be slightly less embarrassing if she was in her early 20s and not a 35 year old woman. Grow the fuck up, already. 

I can buy that Candace didn't know about Mia's mother because the only thing that we know she said about Mia's mother wasn't specific and was, IMO, a clear take on a 'yo momma joke using Mia's initial barb and in fact her exact words.  Which doesn't seem to indicate any specific knowledge about Mia's mom.  

If Mia had said Candace was a dork, I highly suspect the comeback would have been "yo' momma is a dork"

I also think that Mia wasn't a super famous, high profile entity prior to this show and a lot of records are sealed for family court and if Mia's mom was in jail for 20 years, she would have been sentenced in the early 2000's.  Some stuff would have been online and would have been transferred online, but I'm not sure how much, and if it was a drug charge it could have been state or federal (I'd imagine), though 20 years, to me, seems like it would be more of a federal charge.  

All this to say that I don't think it was a matter of Googling Mia and easily finding out about her mother.  I don't think Gizelle and Robyn are so close with Candace that they told her and Wendy only found out pretty recently and while she and Candace are friends Wendy also has a family, a one wick candle business and a zoom class we've seen her teach.  Kiki'ing with Candace may not have been top of mind, and for me, that's Mia's business to tell, so if I were in Wendy's position I wouldn't put it out there to anyone.  

[RealReality]

58 minutes ago, blixie said:

This, Candiace weak ass throwing arm and the fact it's butter knife somehow absolves of her being violent and judged,  why be surprised the lessons she learned was if you are gonna get physical/aggressive be BAD at it (the butter knife, the finger pointing, the lettuce leaves) and you are off the hook. And this woman weaponizes tears like a professional Karen. Even in this conflict with Mia no one is mentioning her flinging bronze tchotchke across the island, again pure luck it injured no one and broke nothing. Mia shouldn't tossed salad and The Mouth shouldn't have flung bronze.

I think I'd consider what is being thrown and the "sincerity" of the throw in determining intent.  If someone weakly throws a nerf ball in my general direction, I'm not going to see the same violent intent in that as if someone throws a ninja throwing star directly at my with skill and might.  I'd be more inclined to assume the second person had a violent intent.  A butter knife, at least in California, is seen more along the lines of the Nerf ball and not the ninja star.  

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by RealReality

[Iguessnot]

45 minutes ago, byrd said:

I for one don't give a rats ass about Robyn's  menstrual cycle !  Robyn should have stayed home. 

What got me was she kept sharing this info with the men too.

[RealReality]

14 hours ago, Sharper2002 said:

Candiace is just too immature – plain and simple. She fights with her words, but as Chris said, she won’t let things go and ends up going below the belt. 

 

Karen and Gizelle have been having the same fight for like three seasons and both are in their 50s.  Ashley admitted that she only wrote the statement for Monique to get back at Candace, after the two had made up.  Karen was talking about Gizelle wishing death on Ray for something she said like in season 3.  So, I don't think that anyone should suggest that not letting things go is reserved to Candace.  

And I'd maintain that the two lowest points in the show was Ashley viciously going after a very clearly mentally unstable Katie and only apologizing after Gizelle pretty much forced her and Gizelle wearing that Uncle Ben t-shirt for Karen's "press conference".  

 

[TexasGal]

It's ok to disagree about whether Candiace is sent straight from the devil, but it's not ok to be rude to each other about it.  Posts have been hidden.  Always be civil to each other.

[RealReality]

10 hours ago, Marley said:

 

Mia needs to stop with her whole boss shit. Your husband let you take over his businesses. Shut up.

 

Chris almost seems to try too hard when he’s around the other guys. I think the way he starts talking is ridiculous. It’s like he’s trying to be cool and accepted or something. I don’t know I just notice it when around a big group of the husbands. It’s kind of embarrassing. He’s still a million times better then trash Michael Darby tho but that’s a lie bar lol

 

 

 

If Andy Cohen takes suggestions, I'd like him to give Mia a few live, on air questions about various business terms that a "boss bitch" such as herself should know.  And I don't just want a dryly recited definition, I want her to explain how she uses it in her daily live as a "boss business bitch"  Because I doubt that Gordon even let her "take over" his businesses.  I think there is probably a manager who does most of the work and Gordon let her play "business barbie" for a day or two for the cameras.  

LOL @ the bolded....happy accidents.  

Not sure whats going on with Chris, he should just be himself.  I think Dre and Eddie are kinda efforlessly cool and Chris may feel loud and awkward around them.  

 

3 hours ago, eXiled said:

Exactly what I was thinking of when I wrote it. IMO, keeping it real goes wrong more often than not.

I'll say this for Ashley: She certainly knows an entry point when she sees one. She knows Candiace is incapable of walking away from an argument; she counts on that to keep shit going. She's just as bad with her grudge-holding as Candiace is, yet never receives nearly as much blow-back when she starts shit.

This.  Exactly.  I'm not even entirely sure Candace holds grudges, she just wants to have the last word.  And I think this is far more common than people want to admit.  

Ashley held a grudge, even after she and Candace "cleared the air" and admitted that the grudge was the basis for her writing the statement for Monique.  

2 hours ago, StillHere said:

Yes, THAT, and since we are intellectually honest about the black community, "ya momma jokes" are the quickest way to get your ass beat ... if you're REALLY about that life.

Are they?  Its sad that anyone would risk their freedom over a common insult joke genre that often doesn't even require the joke teller to have ever met the mother in question. 

This is as ridiculous as someone trying to beat up Triumph, the insult comedy dog.  Or trying to beat up a comedian for razzing you if you sit in the front row of a comedy show.  Beating someone up for a 'yo momma joke doesn't say anything great about that person, other than that they can't take a joke so maybe its best they not be out and about in the community.    

[Yogisbooboo64]

6 hours ago, StillHere said:

Since we are intellectually honest about the black community, "ya momma jokes" are the quickest way to get your ass beat ... if you're REALLY about that life.

Yup!  Born and raised at 25th & Diamond in North Philly, as kids we didn't play that shit.

20 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I know Gizelle isn't all offended about her lack of bathroom when she implicitly stated to Wendy at her Shady party that she had every intention of not letting her and Karen use her bathroom. 

IKR?!  First of all, if I were Wendy I wouldn't have invited Gizzard and her puppet.  And guess what, if that had happened they would have been put out so damned if Wendy does, damned if she doesn't.  And if it bothers her so much maybe Gizzard should hip hop her ass to a hotel, which is what she did I believe.  And Robbbbbbbbbbbbbbb, I don't need to hear about your period...shit, stay home and make your boys miserable, we know Juan's likely banging someone while you're out anyway.

20 hours ago, truthaboutluv said:

I want it to be noted that Candiace confirmed multiple times, she threw the food first. I don't care that it was two small pieces or one. She struck first on that one. Then she insists that Mia was breaking things, yet she's the one that slammed her hand across the counter multiple times, sending shit flying both times. 

Precisely.  Like Ashley said, instead of her playing the victim, she needs to own her shit.  And Chris at some point will get tired of her drama....I don't care what anyone says about him blaccent and all, he deserves a grown assed woman.

Oh Ashley....everything was going so well and then you just haaaaaaad to stir the fucking pot!  Damn dis heiffa's messy.

Trying to like G. but his hitting on the women was too icky.  Poor Dre, he looked so over the dramas.

Finally, I still don't get it....if you're eating someone's butt, how is that tossing the salad?  I blushed right along with Karen at the tea bagging.  I will try not to think about that next time I'm with Mr. Yogisbooboo, lol.

Edited October 11, 2021 by Yogisbooboo64

[Pop Tart]

My biggest issue with Candiace is not that she wants the last word or keeps an argument going (that's kind of a HW staple). It's that she invariably reverts to the very personal with her antagonists. Much has been said about her throwing the first lettuce/vegetables and then throwing other things around the counter, but she also told someone to get Mia's "pimp" (G). I found that extremely low.

Additionally, her constant references to Mia's large feet and big hands? Just comes through to me as transphobic. What other inference is there to be had about commenting on a woman's large hands especially - but that Mia is a man in drag? And she's saying it as a dig? I'm not usually one to read too much into a comment, but Candiace has referenced Mia's big feet/hands a bunch of times and always in a sneering way.

 

 

[Hiyo]

Quote

Candiace is sent straight from the devil

That's putting it mildly.

[bichonblitz]

5 hours ago, byrd said:

Candyass has some deep-rooted issues and I am just over it and I believe her husband is too.     

I wonder if Andy Cohen is sorry he gave Candyass another season. I doubt she'll be back for another. Mia is a shit stirrer and a snob but she keeps her cool. She makes trouble but never raises her voice and starts yelling and screaming like Candyass. Not only did Candyass throw the first bits of lettuce, she also started slamming and breaking things on the counter. She can't fight without 100% losing her shit. That's the difference between the two. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by bichonblitz

[Crazydoxielady]

3 hours ago, drivethroo said:

Monique is right where she belongs.  The problem wasn't necessarily Monique fighting; it was Monique in such a rage it took 6 grown men to pull her off of Candiace.  She had all of this rage to the point of uttering death threats on Candiace and then ran a year long smear campaign on Candiace.

Agree. Monique showed a level of violence rarely seen on Housewives. She is a liability. And that makes me sad, as I loved her family, her beauty and enjoyed her scenes. The way she doubled down after the incident is impossible to come back from, however, & she needs to stay gone. Candiace is showing her entire azz with these continued antics. She goes for the jugular and it’s hard to watch. I am not entertained. She is incredibly unlikeable, and her smug face makes my stomach literally recoil.  Chris forcefully and physically trying to hold her back was a bit much too.  It makes me wonder about them on many levels. Chris’s “blaccent” is also ridiculous.  He seems to be drinking a lot this season, the man needs to go get a real job again and stay out of his wife’s foolishness. 
 

Wendy. Four degrees and she still chews with her mouth open. Literally chews like a cow. I’m sorry, my mum was a Brit, & we were all about table manners, no elbows on the table, & closed mouth while eating. I also note she’s much more covered up around her husband. Proves the point women dress for each other more than for men. I am truly sick of not so Zen Wen.  Let’s bring Ascala & her foine big boy husband into the full time housewife fold, and drop Miss Bolt On’s with Four Degrees. 
 

Robin had her menstrual cycle. Did everyone catch that?? Lord she certainly said it enough.  Girl stay home. Literally no one cares, and I always find it funny as women in their 40’s snd 50’s love to make a loud show of still having their period. Perhaps to announce they are still vital  baby making machines and not too old for procreation. Her husband is sick of her Eeyore  act and so am I. 
 

Gizelle with her Pearl sweatshirt monstrosity.  She knows she’s constantly ragged on re: her fashion “un-sense” yet continues to flash bargain basement looks unapologetically. At this point I’m thinking she’s just in on the joke.  
 

Did I really see Ashley “sun bathing & pumping” on a boat with couples on it in scenes from next week?!  Girl… put em away. Your surrounded by women who also likely breastfed and also likely didn’t resort to such attention getting foolishness. I breast fed both of my babies for two years each. But managed to not whip out my boobs in public nor did I ever need to pump on a boat. Time and place Ashley. Time and place. 

[Yours Truly]

My thing is this. I really do believe in controlling yourself in an argument and I also DO NOT condone putting hands on anyone. With that said, I do believe that that EXACT same energy should be applied to not condoning verbal abuse, aggression and attempts at being intimidating. Do I think people resorting to physical violence is acceptable? NOPE. Will I feel bad for Candance if she gets the shit slapped outta her cause she fucked with the wrong one? NOPE.  Candace doesn't get a green light just cause her abuse is verbal. I don't understand these text book ideas that a person can be ugly, verbally intrusive, hurtful and have aggressive bodily language but that's all Gucchi cause she's not laying hand on no one. Nah, miss me with that shit. It's a universal understanding that provoking people is an at risk sport and I think a bitch like Candace is clueless about how much jeopardy she puts herself in. Now, like I said, I don't think it should resort to physical violence but to think someone should feel sorry for a person who deliberately puts herself in these sort of situations with her own VERY AGGRESSIVE nature is absolutely bonkers to me. I tell you what, fucking with my peace DOES test my patience and self control and to be frank I don't think it should be all that confusing to understand why a person may lose control. Doesn't make it right but it does make it understandable. People who want to abuse in ALTERNATIVE ways like, oh I don't know, aggressively provoking and agitating a person shouldn't be considered 100% innocent and their role in it should matter. Tired of the pretend theories that say a person who doesn't lash out physically but does all they can to cut in all other ways is absolved of all wrong doing. That's not reality. 

The thing I always think of is, sure you're technically not in the wrong and you have the law on your side but in reality what would you rather? Having the law on your side while in the hospital with you jaw wired shut? or maybe you should just throw your shade, have a little back and forth then leave well enough alone without going the extra step of testing fate by doing the whole "wish a motherfucker would" gamble then LOSING BIG TIME? Like she did last year with Monique. Sure Monique is gone but not before Candace got dragged and who is  apparently still dealing with personal trauma from that altercation. Candace will definitely have plenty of people in her corner and the culprit will more than likely reap some sort of punishment but at what price? Bitch in the hospital with her jaw broke. Like really? That makes no sense. All that just so she can be an asshole that hits below the belt and cuts deep? Also counting on the person you're antagonizing and egging on to NOT hurt you while you go for the jugular each and every time is not only the stupidest and most ridiculous strategy I could think of but the fact that people really believe this makes absolute sense makes it bizarre to me as well.  

Add the fact that Candace does like to try and buck but really ain't about that life. Sometimes people really do need to check themselves before they wreck themselves and Candace is a PRIME example. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Yours Truly

[Boofish]

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

My biggest issue with Candiace is not that she wants the last word or keeps an argument going (that's kind of a HW staple). It's that she invariably reverts to the very personal with her antagonists. Much has been said about her throwing the first lettuce/vegetables and then throwing other things around the counter, but she also told someone to get Mia's "pimp" (G). I found that extremely low.

Additionally, her constant references to Mia's large feet and big hands? Just comes through to me as transphobic. What other inference is there to be had about commenting on a woman's large hands especially - but that Mia is a man in drag? And she's saying it as a dig? I'm not usually one to read too much into a comment, but Candiace has referenced Mia's big feet/hands a bunch of times and always in a sneering way.

 

 

She also called Mia "handsome" 

[RealReality]

3 hours ago, goofygirl said:

Collateral damage?

Colettuceral damage. 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

I wonder if Andy Cohen is sorry he gave Candyass another season. I doubt she'll be back for another. Mia is a shit stirrer and a snob but she keeps her cool. She makes trouble but never raises her voice and starts yelling and screaming like Candyass. Not only did Candyass throw the first bits of lettuce, she also started slamming and breaking things on the counter. She can't fight without 100% losing her shit. That's the difference between the two. 

I don't think all shit stirrers are created equal (and I don't even think candace is one of them, as @drivethroo pointed out, she is often responding to someone, which is likely why Mia came for her).  

For me, Mia brings nothing to the table.  No snappy reads, not even re-tread reads, Mia is just delusional.  From the revisionist history between she and G (he now paid her for "conversation" and he saw her dance, but first she served him drinks, and it wasn't stripping, and blah blah blah), to the fact that she went from not knowing her age to not knowing her husbands age, to the fact that she insists that she is some high powered businesswoman when she just isn't.  She looks like a melted crayon in the face and G and his rolling tongue are just gross*.  

I think that Candace is more like a Kenya, and I've always loved a Cruella villain.  

I don't particularly fault Candace for going low, if these women can't stand the heat, they shouldn't come into Candace's kitchen.  

Ashley especially loves to play the "but what I said wasn't that bad!" game.  But its not because she isn't trying, its because Ashley isn't as fast on her feet.  

I think Candiace will have a place on the show as long as she wants it.  Even Andy knows the value of a good villain, and even last year I didn't hear any chatter about Andy getting rid of her or demoting her.  

[drivethroo]

3 hours ago, RealReality said:

I don't think Gizelle and Robyn are so close with Candace that they told her

I think Robyn is closer to Candiace (off camera) than Gizelle is but I don't think Robyn would've shared Mia's story with Candiace (even before they started beefing) because that's not Robyn's story to tell and Juan had a similar story.

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

Ashley admitted that she only wrote the statement for Monique to get back at Candace, after the two had made up.

And that's the problem with Ashley, she smiled in Candiace's face and pretended to want to work things out but the first chance she got, she attacked Candiace with the police statement.

She did the same thing last night when Chris was very nice to her in the kitchen and she pretended to receive his words well but took the first opportunity to attack him and Candiace at the table.

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

Ashley admitted that she only wrote the statement for Monique to get back at Candace, after the two had made up. 

Having said all of the above, Ashley had every right to get back at Candiace by writing the statement.  She was wrong, but she was right.  She was wrong because she sat in the girl's face and pretended like she wanted to make things right and work on their relationship knowing she actually did not.  She was wrong because Michael is a predator and needs to be held accountable.

But she was right because if your husband is writing statements to the police that could land my husband in jail and you are saying on camera that my husband is a predator, he's a sexual assaulter etc, even if my husband is all of that and more, I'm coming for you.  No matter how long it takes, I'm coming for you.  If my husband don't like you, I don't like you.  Candiace and Chris were too stupid/trusting/naive to see that.

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

Not sure whats going on with Chris, he should just be himself.  I think Dre and Eddie are kinda efforlessly cool and Chris may feel loud and awkward around them.  

I think Chris is one of those white guys who doesn't want to be like those guys we saw at the table last night with their polo shirts, khakis and Republican haircuts.  At least one of his baby mommas is a woman of color so it seems like Chris likes the flava and the spice.  I've seen at least one picture of him way back in the day where he looked like {insert 2000s era white rapper here} so I think that's just how he is, not just for TV.

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

Ashley held a grudge, even after she and Candace "cleared the air" and admitted that the grudge was the basis for her writing the statement for Monique.  

My problem with Ashley is instead of standing in HER truth, she smiled in the girl's face while planning and plotting to stab her in the back.

 

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

Are they?  Its sad that anyone would risk their freedom over a common insult joke genre that often doesn't even require the joke teller to have ever met the mother in question. 

They're not.  It's just a bunch of 35+ year old middle class/adjacent black women talking about what "hood" they come from, what they do in the "streets", how they're about that life, etc etc. and they're not doing any of that.  Monique could do that because she didn't have anything to lose; sure she doesn't have her lil Bravo check anymore but she's still rich, still living in her $4 million mansion, still driving whatever luxury car she was driving.  A commenter on a message board might type they're "about that life" but ain't nobody got time to be facing charges, taking time off work to go to court to face the charges, risk going to jail, risk losing your job etc.

At best, somebody like Candiace would get cussed out and blocked. Well, in the HOOD.... no, in real life Candiace would likely NOT be interacting with anyone from the "hood."  In real life Candiace would be associating with the Robyns, Gizelles, Wendys and Askales.  She would not be interacting with anyone of the backgrounds of Monique, Ashley or Mia.

I actually find it very offensive all of this "well in the hood, in the streets" talk because most people from the hood, from the streets DO NOT act like rabid thugs like Monique did.  It's all middle class puffery.

1 hour ago, Pop Tart said:

It's that she invariably reverts to the very personal with her antagonists.

Isn't that what you're supposed to do in a fight?

1 hour ago, bichonblitz said:

Not only did Candyass throw the first bits of lettuce, she also started slamming and breaking things on the counter.

Like Mia did when she slammed that porcelain thing down on the counter?

39 minutes ago, Crazydoxielady said:

 I also note she’s much more covered up around her husband. Proves the point women dress for each other more than for men.

She has been covered up in every scene with Eddie even before Robyn & Gizelle questioned why her breasts were popping out all the time.  She might have been upset but after Robyn & Gizelle told her to stop that shit, she's been covered up ever since.

40 minutes ago, Crazydoxielady said:

Did I really see Ashley “sun bathing & pumping” on a boat with couples on it in scenes from next week?!

What better way to escape accountability for starting that fight with Candiace than by pumping in front of everyone? Who's going to say "Ashley, you started that fight and you were wrong" when she's pumping?  Just another example of how she's using motherhood as a shield to escape accountability.

19 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Like she did last year with Monique. Sure Monique is gone but not before Candace got dragged and who is  apparently still dealing with personal trauma from that altercation.

Monique didn't beat Candiace's ass for anything Candiace said or did.  Monique beat Candiace's ass because she wanted to and she knew she could with very little consequences.  If Monique really was "about that life" she would've fought Robyn on the street when Robyn challenged her.

What Candiace learned last year was:

• It doesn't matter if you apologize or try to work to make things better, you always be blamed and will always be in the wrong
• It doesn't matter if you disengage, you will get your ass beat anyway

So she might as well let whatever fly out of her mouth because even when she tries to do the right thing, it will never be enough

19 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Also counting on the person you're antagonizing and egging on to NOT hurt you while you go for the jugular each and every time is not only the stupidest and most ridiculous strategy I could think of but the fact that people really believe this makes absolute sense makes it bizarre to me as well.  

So is thinking you have to "lay hands" on and "drag" everyone who says anything you don't like.

 

[RealReality]

57 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

My thing is this. I really do believe in controlling yourself in an argument and I also DO NOT condone putting hands on anyone. With that said, I do believe that that EXACT same energy should be applied to not condoning verbal abuse, aggression and attempts at being intimidating.

To me, a big problem with a statement like this is that it is so subjective, whereas the line between violence and words are not.  

What is verbal abuse?  That is almost always going to be different for different people and there isn't a bright, hard line.  Some people will say that a 'yo momma joke is verbal abuse, but I would strongly disagree.  I think its a joke.  Some people would say that anytime a voice is raised or someone speaks in an upset tone that this is verbal abuse.  

And this is only made more complicated by the fact that people most of the time have to use words to communicate, but really only what, 10% of communication is verbal.  So, you can misinterpret tone, or decide that you think the tone a person has adopted makes their words abusive.  

People have to use words to communicate, but you don't need to use violence or even physical actions to communicate in most situation (sign language being the most obvious).  

There can be a bright line between words and physical violence, but its much harder to have an agreed upon set of circumstances that can be termed "verbal abuse" and "verbal aggression"

I was watching this old episode of American Justice about vigilante justice.  One of the cases that was highlighted was that of a guy on the subway in the 90s who was approached by five teens, one of whom asked him for $5.  Fearing that he was going to be beaten up and robbed, he shot all five men before they could even make a move against him.  

Now, verbally, all they ever did was ask for $5.  And so the words themselves weren't abusive, aggressive or intimidating.  But when you looked at the situation, it was all sorts of shades of grey, and it could be interpreted either as five guys just asking for five bucks or five guys who were toying with their prey before they beat and robbed him.  

There is a level of subjectivity with words that you don't have, as often, with physical violence.  So, I think they are very different and should be treated differently or given different energy.  

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

 

The thing I always think of is, sure you're technically not in the wrong and you have the law on your side but in reality what would you rather? Having the law on your side while in the hospital with you jaw wired shut? or maybe you should just throw your shade, have a little back and forth then leave well enough alone without going the extra step of testing fate by doing the whole "wish a motherfucker would" gamble then LOSING BIG TIME? Like she did last year with Monique. Sure Monique is gone but not before Candace got dragged and who is  apparently still dealing with personal trauma from that altercation. Candace will definitely have plenty of people in her corner and the culprit will more than likely reap some sort of punishment but at what price? Bitch in the hospital with her jaw broke. Like really? That makes no sense. All that just so she can be an asshole that hits below the belt and cuts deep? Also counting on the person you're antagonizing and egging on to NOT hurt you while you go for the jugular each and every time is not only the stupidest and most ridiculous strategy I could think of but the fact that people really believe this makes absolute sense makes it bizarre to me as well.  

Add the fact that Candace does like to try and buck but really ain't about that life. Sometimes people really do need to check themselves before they wreck themselves and Candace is a PRIME example. 

But by this logic, no one should say anything because it could cause someone to haul off and break your jaw, because "little shade" and a "little back and forth" are going to mean different things for different people and you'd have to tailor your response for the strongest person in the room.....who will be the only one talking.  And I don't want an hour of Robyn pontificating.  So, at that point, I may as well go check out this Squid Game I've been hearing so much about.  

I think going for the jugular is a reasonable strategy for the same reason Mike Tyson wanted to TKO someone within the first twenty seconds.  He fought with fists, she fights with words, both are going to lay their opponent out if they can.  

HOWEVER, they ALL know that they are only supposed to fight with words.  So no one should expect or foresee being physically hit in response to their words.  I also think that no one who stepped into the ring with Mike Tyson expected a "yo momma" joke or to be razzed for having big feet.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by RealReality

[RealReality]

3 hours ago, Pop Tart said:

My biggest issue with Candiace is not that she wants the last word or keeps an argument going (that's kind of a HW staple). It's that she invariably reverts to the very personal with her antagonists. Much has been said about her throwing the first lettuce/vegetables and then throwing other things around the counter, but she also told someone to get Mia's "pimp" (G). I found that extremely low.

Additionally, her constant references to Mia's large feet and big hands? Just comes through to me as transphobic. What other inference is there to be had about commenting on a woman's large hands especially - but that Mia is a man in drag? And she's saying it as a dig? I'm not usually one to read too much into a comment, but Candiace has referenced Mia's big feet/hands a bunch of times and always in a sneering way.

 

 

Mia asked Candace's mother about her husband's paycheck when Candace was no more than ten feet away.  To me that seems much more personal. 

And Mia, who said, from the moment she came on camera, that she is "very open" has invited any and all speculation into the origin story of her marriage because she has at least 3 different versions of it.  Paid companion is not a stretch and I think its fair game, particularly as Mia won't shut up about being a "boss business bitch" who is just so classy and upscale and it seems pretty clear that Mia slept her way out of the strip club.  For me, this would have been more of an honest and inspiring story instead of Mia pretending like she has much of anything to do with the business Gordon built.  Mia was in a bad situation, saw a way out and successfully got it.  To me, that's a success story, but I can't buy her "I'm so honest" shtick, when I think she is lying about how she even met her husband.  

I would agree that there is an element of cracking on Mia's big hands and feet as being trans, but I don't think thats any more pervasive than calling Candace or Wendy aggressive, the second they decide they no longer want to be shat all over.  

[Yours Truly]

41 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

 

 

 

 

Monique didn't beat Candiace's ass for anything Candiace said or did.  Monique beat Candiace's ass because she wanted to and she knew she could with very little consequences.  If Monique really was "about that life" she would've fought Robyn on the street when Robyn challenged her.

What Candiace learned last year was:

• It doesn't matter if you apologize or try to work to make things better, you always be blamed and will always be in the wrong
• It doesn't matter if you disengage, you will get your ass beat anyway

So she might as well let whatever fly out of her mouth because even when she tries to do the right thing, it will never be enough

So is thinking you have to "lay hands" on and "drag" everyone who says anything you don't like.

 

My point was that at the end of the day Candace got her ass beat. Every thing else is pretty irrelevant cause when all that is said and done Candace. Got. Her. Ass. Beat. 

Oh and I would hardly describe what Candace did as disengaging. That Is A Stretch.

Candace has, on more than one occasion, made aggressive physical moves towards a person that she's having words with to go along with her verbal invitations to have a physical altercation. That isn't disengaging behavior so I'm not understanding this narrative. 

[Yours Truly]

57 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

 

So is thinking you have to "lay hands" on and "drag" everyone who says anything you don't like.

 

No not everyone. And it isn't about difference of opinions its about reacting to a bitch's verbal abuse and aggressive demeanor. That's not the same as not liking the same music artist.

But what is even more ridiculous is engaging is this wanna be Bad Ass farce and can't even back it up. I think that's what really does it for me.  I find it absolutely hysterical how often she's one finger wave away from getting her ass dragged all over again cause her hands can't cash the checks her mouth writes. LOLOL!

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Yours Truly

[qtpye]

What I got from this episode:

Mia makes $450,000 being a boss bitch.

That is all.

[StillHere]

Our Little Candiace has had 3 violent physical altercations with cast members in consecutive years.

Any guesses who she’ll scrap with (then cry about it) next season? Wendy … Chris … the new girl … production?

[drivethroo]

5 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

My point was that at the end of the day Candace got her ass beat. Every thing else is pretty irrelevant cause when all that is said and done Candace. Got. Her. Ass. Beat. 

You actually prove my point that it doesn't matter what Candiace does or says, it doesn't matter if she's quiet or walks away, she's going to get her ass beat anyway so she might as well run her mouth.

 

7 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Oh and I would hardly describe what Candace did as disengaging. That Is A Stretch.

Every time last season up to the barn fight, when Monique tried to start a fight, Candiace walked away.  How is that not disengaging?  If the real sentiment is "Candiace needs her ass beat until she disappears and goes away," just say that instead of saying she needs to disengage because as you say, she got dragged anyway.

 

9 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

Candace has, on more than one occasion, made aggressive physical moves towards a person that she's having words with to go along with her verbal invitations to have a physical altercation. That isn't disengaging behavior so I'm not understanding this narrative. 

You're not understanding because you want Candiace's ass beat because you don't like her.  That's all.

4 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

And it isn't about difference of opinions its about reacting to a bitch's verbal abuse and aggressive demeanor.

And 99% of the people puffing and huffing about beating a bitch's ass will do *nothing* except cry about it on Facebook when it actually happens.  Ya'll ain't out here "beating bitches' asses" because they talked to you sideways; it's simply not happening.  It's just puffery from middle aged women who haven't been in a fight since 8th grade.

7 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

But what is even more ridiculous is engaging is this wanna be Bad Ass farce and can't even back it up. I think that's what really does it for me.  I find it absolutely hysterical how often she's one finger wave away from getting her ass dragged all over again cause her hands can't cash the checks her mouth writes. LOLOL!

And all the middle aged women foaming that Candiace's ass needs to be beat for her mouth are one 911 call away from

• Getting arrested
• Losing jobs
• Having to pay court costs, fees and fines
• Catching a record
• Possibly losing housing
• Having a judgment on their record after losing the civil case
• Getting their wages garnished because they lost the last job and the new job doesn't pay enough to pay the judgment

for "beating a bitch's ass."

Which is why they aren't doing it.  It's all e-thuggery.  Nobody is out here "beating bitches' asses" for talking sideways except hoodboogers with nothing to lose.  Everyone else?  Has something to lose. That's why so many love and cherish Monique and were cheering her on because she could do what they know they cannot in real life.

 

 

[Yours Truly]

48 minutes ago, RealReality said:

To me, a big problem with a statement like this is that it is so subjective, whereas the line between violence and words are not.  

What is verbal abuse?  That is almost always going to be different for different people and there isn't a bright, hard line.  Some people will say that a 'yo momma joke is verbal abuse, but I would strongly disagree.  I think its a joke.  Some people would say that anytime a voice is raised or someone speaks in an upset tone that this is verbal abuse.  

And this is only made more complicated by the fact that people most of the time have to use words to communicate, but really only what, 10% of communication is verbal.  So, you can misinterpret tone, or decide that you think the tone a person has adopted makes their words abusive.  

People have to use words to communicate, but you don't need to use violence or even physical actions to communicate in most situation (sign language being the most obvious).  

There can be a bright line between words and physical violence, but its much harder to have an agreed upon set of circumstances that can be termed "verbal abuse" and "verbal aggression"

I was watching this old episode of American Justice about vigilante justice.  One of the cases that was highlighted was that of a guy on the subway in the 90s who was approached by five teens, one of whom asked him for $5.  Fearing that he was going to be beaten up and robbed, he shot all five men before they could even make a move against him.  

Now, verbally, all they ever did was ask for $5.  And so the words themselves weren't abusive, aggressive or intimidating.  But when you looked at the situation, it was all sorts of shades of grey, and it could be interpreted either as five guys just asking for five bucks or five guys who were toying with their prey before they beat and robbed him.  

There is a level of subjectivity with words that you don't have, as often, with physical violence.  So, I think they are very different and should be treated differently or given different energy.  

What Candace does is NOT and repeat NOT confusing. It's a stretch to pretend that Candace's behavior, intentions and body language is "subjective". Her behavior is overtly obvious. 

Anyway, regardless of all those nuanced details that is somehow supposed to paint Candace is some different light Candace is a very hurtful person and the explanation that people "push" her to be mean and heartless with her words still isn't gonna win her any fans. Ugly is ugly whether you use your words or use your hands. The idea that Candace can be excused while other people cannot doesn't fly with me. Candace still does her dirt. She ain't some babe in the woods that gets the short end of the stick. She chooses to wade in dangerous waters with how low she decides to go. The idea that the repercussions are going to be appropriately measured for the offense is a stupid gamble to make and Candace really likes swinging for the fences.

Hey, if that's where she wants to take it that's on her but all in all my position is I ain't gonna feel bad if she does get dragged cause in her case its the cost of doing business. It's stupid to put yourself at risk in the first place and Candace does just that REGULARLY. 

[Yours Truly]

57 minutes ago, RealReality said:

But by this logic, no one should say anything because it could cause someone to haul off and break your jaw, because "little shade" and a "little back and forth" are going to mean different things for different people and you'd have to tailor your response for the strongest person in the room.....who will be the only one talking.  And I don't want an hour of Robyn pontificating.  So, at that point, I may as well go check out this Squid Game I've been hearing so much about.  

I think going for the jugular is a reasonable strategy for the same reason Mike Tyson wanted to TKO someone within the first twenty seconds.  He fought with fists, she fights with words, both are going to lay their opponent out if they can.  

HOWEVER, they ALL know that they are only supposed to fight with words.  So no one should expect or foresee being physically hit in response to their words.  I also think that no one who stepped into the ring with Mike Tyson expected a "yo momma" joke or to be razzed for having big feet.  

Well, that's where maturity, experience and having the sense God gave you comes into play.  Read a room and check yourself before you go too far. Most people, if they want to that is, can determine when there's a shift in energy. Candace literally INVITES more conflict and escalation. That's where I can't with her. She engages just as much as the other person so to me it's a two way street and BOTH are in the wrong.  Let's not ignore the fact that Candace has physically aggressive body language as well. It isn't only just words with her and I guess I find it interesting that there seems to be a dumbing down of Candace's physical actions during these altercations. She's isn't just sitting down at a table with her hands folded in her lap the whole time so I'm always confused that there's this picture of Candance not doing anything. Anything at all. I mean it's literally on film how these situations go down. 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Yours Truly

[Yours Truly]

28 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

Every time last season up to the barn fight, when Monique tried to start a fight, Candiace walked away.  How is that not disengaging?  If the real sentiment is "Candiace needs her ass beat until she disappears and goes away," just say that instead of saying she needs to disengage because as you say, she got dragged anyway.

 

You're not understanding because you want Candiace's ass beat because you don't like her.  That's all.

 

 

I said I wouldn't feel bad if Candace got her ass beat.

That's different than WANTING her to get her ass beat. (Although I may giggle a little if it happens again LOL!)

That one scene with Monique keeps being the main go to..

There are other situations where Candace did not disengage.

On film

During other episodes.

I think I understand quite well that Candace doesn't always disengage.

She actually escalates some of the arguments and disagreements she's in.

She's also shown us how physically aggressive she wants to "present herself" (cause we've already seen she can't back it up..LOL) when she wants to "try" to run up on people and when she wants to be all up in someone's face. 

So there's also that. 

 

Edited October 11, 2021 by Yours Truly

[Jeopardy15]

18 hours ago, RealReality said:

If Andy Cohen takes suggestions, I'd like him to give Mia a few live, on air questions about various business terms that a "boss bitch" such as herself should know.  And I don't just want a dryly recited definition, I want her to explain how she uses it in her daily live as a "boss business bitch"  Because I doubt that Gordon even let her "take over" his businesses.  I think there is probably a manager who does most of the work and Gordon let her play "business barbie" for a day or two for the cameras.  

“Business Barbie” — I love this. That is exactly what  Mia is doing. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Jeopardy15
Grammar

[drivethroo]

14 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

That one scene with Monique keeps being the main go to..

There are other situations where Candace did not disengage.

The scene with Monique is what Ashley, Gizelle and Robyn were referring to last night and it's the incident where most of the "Candiace needs her ass whipped" fans seem to cite. What are these "other situations" where Candiace did not disengage? Because all last season she apologized and walked away.  Monique was even furious Candiace backed out of the podcast because she didn't want to engage with Monique.  Are we going back to season 4 at Katie's farm to justify why Monique needed and was justified in beating Candiace's ass in the middle of season 5?

If we are citing past incidents of engagement as justification for present day ass whoopings, where is Robyn's ass whooping for putting her fingers in Ashley's face and threatening Monique on the street?

39 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

She's also shown us how physically aggressive she wants to "present herself" (cause we've already seen she can't back it up..LOL) when she wants to "try" to run up on people and when she wants to be all up in someone's face. 

When did she "run up" on anyone? They were all standing around the table at the winery. At the Eastern Shore house there was a kitchen island between her and Mia and Mia had actually left the room and then came back to toss the salad at Candiace. That was actually physically aggressive.  Both Mia and Robyn have "run up" on people and nobody has called for either one of their asses to be beaten.

Candiace does not always disengage but it doesn't matter if she does or not because the default approach to anything Candiace is she needs her ass whooped.

[Rambunctiouscurls]

8 hours ago, drivethroo said:

This is what I mean by Candiace not having anyone to defend her.  Michael (who has been charged with crimes) has called Candiace (who has not been arrested or charged with any crime) a "criminal" on camera on several occasions.  He's denigrated Chris and called him white trash, a loser, a nobody etc.  Michael's wife wrote a retaliatory statement to the police as get back on your wife.  Why do you seek to get to a friendly place with these people? You could see a cloud come over Candiace's face when Chris said that, too.

Having said that, I don't think Chris is using Candiace for TV time because if he is, he should be promoting his cooking classes and he's not doing that (and he should be).

Then Ashley should've blasted G, not Candiace.  And I'm tired of Ashley's ghetto voice everytime she talks to or about Candiace.

We want to get on Candiace but the other parties involved can hit the Ignore button on Candiace, too.  But they won't because picking picking picking at Candiace serves a purpose for them.  Ashley (and Andy Cohen) are still tight about Candiace's tweets from almost 3 years ago, singing a sob story of "I was in Labor!"  But Ashley, why are you mad tweeting while in labor? Why is Candiace even on your mind while you're in labor?

The easiest way to handle Candiace is to ignore her but they won't because Candiace having tantrums serves real purposes for all of them, Chris and Dorothy included.

Exactly and it makes me want them to fire Candiace so Ashley can't lean on Candiace hate anymore to help her skate through with her bullshit.

As long as Candiace is on the show, the rest of the castmembers get to skate on their BS and fly under the radar because we can always point at Candiace.

Monique is right where she belongs.  The problem wasn't necessarily Monique fighting; it was Monique in such a rage it took 6 grown men to pull her off of Candiace.  She had all of this rage to the point of uttering death threats on Candiace and then ran a year long smear campaign on Candiace.  And the gag is, this rage was towards Gizelle (and Charrisse and Gigi).  She should've been making Gizelle's (and Charrisse & Gigi's) head ring.  Candiace got her ass whooped because of what Gizelle, Charrisse and Gigi did.  Had Chris so tight he was cussing Charrisse out at the Safeway.

She's at her house where she needs to be and needs to stay.  She could end up being mad at Gizelle and trying to whoop Wendy's ass next.

If you are 35 years old and getting mad at a "yo momma" joke, it's because what was said in the joke is true about your momma.  That goes for Mia and that goes for Mariah of "Married 2 Medicine" too.  

What Candiace says to them is very noteworthy and strikes a nerve; otherwise

• Ashley wouldn't still be pressed Candiace called Michael a slavedriver/overseer, because we all know when Michael says Jump, Ashley has to say "How High" or he will put her back out onto the streets
• Gizelle wouldn't have gotten pressed over Candiace calling her house a $900K tear down cabin; now we see other cast members calling her house "Motel Gizelle," asking why they would be jealous "of this", shading the construction of her home.  Gizelle was mad because she knows she should have torn down that house and started from scratch; that's what everyone else in the DMV does
• Mia wouldn't have thrown the bowl of salad at Candiace for calling her a nightwalker and asking where her pimp was; Mia didn't throw the salad because of anything Candiace was saying about her mother, Mia threw that salad because she was upset at being called a ho
• Monique wouldn't have beat Candiace's ass for calling out the fact Monique was pretending to be asleep so she wouldn't have to deal with Candiace; the "Good Night, I'm Sleep" triggered Monique's rage because Gizelle was laughing at Monique being called out but Monique knew she couldn't lay hands on Gizelle and get away with it so she beat Candiace's ass instead

Candiace, more often than not, tells the truth about the women, and they all know it and that's why they say "Candiace's mouth is a trash can, it's reckless etc."  But one thing nobody has said about Candiace's mouth is that she's lying about them.

If we're intellectually honest about the black community and "yo momma 

Valid points and I condemned Monique last season despite liking her and disliking Candiace for the same reason I am condemning Candiace this season. While I  can generally see Candiace’s point of view however and this is a big but to me, Slave driver is so beyond offensive that people will forget the initial transgressor if the punishment does not fit the crime.

Ashley does her job as resident shit stirrer incredibly well and Kyle from RHOBH could use some pointers from her.

Robyn reminds me of the energy vampire in what we do in the shadows.
 

If boredom was a person, it would be Robyn. 

[RealReality]

1 hour ago, Yours Truly said:

What Candace does is NOT and repeat NOT confusing. It's a stretch to pretend that Candace's behavior, intentions and body language is "subjective". Her behavior is overtly obvious. 

Anyway, regardless of all those nuanced details that is somehow supposed to paint Candace is some different light Candace is a very hurtful person and the explanation that people "push" her to be mean and heartless with her words still isn't gonna win her any fans. Ugly is ugly whether you use your words or use your hands. The idea that Candace can be excused while other people cannot doesn't fly with me. Candace still does her dirt. She ain't some babe in the woods that gets the short end of the stick. She chooses to wade in dangerous waters with how low she decides to go. The idea that the repercussions are going to be appropriately measured for the offense is a stupid gamble to make and Candace really likes swinging for the fences.

Hey, if that's where she wants to take it that's on her but all in all my position is I ain't gonna feel bad if she does get dragged cause in her case its the cost of doing business. It's stupid to put yourself at risk in the first place and Candace does just that REGULARLY. 

I'd say its very subjective because you and I disagree about it and I'm a reasonable person and I suspect you are too.  Where reasonable people disagree about the same thing its subjective. 

"overtly obviously" what?  Verbally abusive?  I disagree.  I don't think yo momma jokes are verbally abusive and/or verbally intimidating and/or aggressive.  I think 'yo momma jokes are just that.  Jokes.  And since two reasonable people disagree then its subjective.  

If you came up to me and called said my momma was low budget, even in the middle of an argument I wouldn't think it was verbally abusive.  I'd probably be confused, especially if you never met and didn't know my mother.  Since you've said that it, for you it would be verbally abusive, then there is room for reasonable minds to disagree and therefore it is subjective.  

"Mean, heartless and ugly" are adjectives that can be applied to every single woman on this show.  

Gizelle wearing that Uncle Ben shirt?  Mean, heartless and ugly.  Every ageist comment that Gizelle makes towards Karen?  Mean, heartless and ugly.  Gizelle spending an entire weekend getting her harpies and nags to pick on, talk over and gaslight wendy?  mean, heartless and ugly.

Ashley deciding to pick on mentally unstable Katie?  Mean, heartless and ugly.

Robyn bringing Gizelle to OZ, isolating Ashley from everyone else, getting in her face and telling her to stop running her mouth?  Mean, heartless and ugly.  Robyn calling Wendy an asshole?  Mean, heartless and ugly. 

Karen saying that Gizelle went to an institution and had an STD on national TV?  Mean, heartless and ugly.  

Saying that those adjectives ONLY apply to Candace's words and actions doesn't pass the smell test, because they are all done things that can rightfully be called "mean, heartless and ugly" and thats what makes terms like "verbal abuse" "verbal aggression" and "verbal aggression" subjective because they are hard to quantify into universally or commonly accepted rules.  But there is far less room for interpretation with physical violence.  

You said - "The idea that the repercussions are going to be appropriately measured for the offense is a stupid gamble to make and Candace really likes swinging for the fences."

To me, saying something like this is suggesting that no one should really say anything because if its unfairly interpreted then its their fault.  And I don't think that is particularly reasonable.  But it seems like in that sentence you recognize that Candace's offenses are not equal to the response she gets, but you're okay with this inequitable response.  

You said - "Hey, if that's where she wants to take it that's on her but all in all my position is I ain't gonna feel bad if she does get dragged cause in her case its the cost of doing business. It's stupid to put yourself at risk in the first place and Candace does just that REGULARLY. "

If getting physically attacked is the cost of upsetting someone with words, because your words put you at risk for a beating then everyone is putting themselves at risk for a beating and the show should be renamed Bad Girls Club of Potomac

 

 

[TexasGal]

Ok, I take it back.  If you are only posting to argue back and forth about Candiace, it’s time to stop.  You are not going to convince anyone to change their mind.  You can ignore posters if their arguments bother you.  Further posts here that are only rebutting others’ arguments about Candiace will be hidden and may result in warnings.

If you want to only talk about Candiace, please take it to her thread, and keep it civil.

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

 

sorry, I literally posted this at the same time @TexasGal posted.  

Let me go into the kitchen and shamefully throw some defenseless salad on myself.  

Edited October 11, 2021 by RealReality

[RealReality]

7 hours ago, Iguessnot said:

What got me was she kept sharing this info with the men too.

This was confusing, did anyone ask her?  It sounds like a possible Gordon question.

Robyn had me cracking up.  Girl, put that phone down, you aren't spending the night anywhere else.  Such dramatics for the camera.  

So on the fence with G, he is giving me dirty old man, but I feel some kind of kinship with someone who can fall asleep anywhere, and it looks like he gets into it with Ashley next week and I can't stand Ashley.  But it looks like it could be over something gross and he is still gross with that tongue, so I don't know.  Ray isn't going to like that he made his blushing fiancee feel so uncomfortable.  

 

[Rambunctiouscurls]

Yes, there are levels to old man creepy. G may be the drunk creepy but generally harmless while Michael Darby is the scary creepy,  men and women need to watch their backs literally and figuratively from.  

[FlyingEgret]

What shocked me most at that dinner was how great Wendy looked in that romper...

[drivethroo]

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

Robyn had me cracking up.  Girl, put that phone down, you aren't spending the night anywhere else.  Such dramatics for the camera.  

I feel like there was another occasion where Robyn & Gizelle didn't like the accommodations so they went to a hotel, or am I imagining that?

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

Ray isn't going to like that he made his blushing fiancee feel so uncomfortable.  

Honestly, I don't think Ray is going to care as long as his nap time isn't interrupted.

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

If getting physically attacked is the cost of upsetting someone with words, because your words put you at risk for a beating then everyone is putting themselves at risk for a beating and the show should be renamed Bad Girls Club of Potomac

I think what many people want is not for any particular cast member to be excused but for all of them to be held to the same standard that  particular cast member is held to.  If that standard isn't applied across the board, if excuses are made for others, the standard is worthless.

I need for the group to come down on Ashley for her role in what happened at Foxy's but they're not going to do that because she's going to whip out a breast or start talking about her children and she'll escape accountability.  Mia needs to be told by the group do not put your fingers in people's faces, because she did it 3 times to Wendy and even touched her after Wendy told her not to.  Don't just come down on one, come down on all who violate the standards the group sets.

If you know you can't fight with your fists, stop posturing like you're ready to knuck up.

If you know you can't fight with your words, shut your mouth and stop coming for the people who have sharper tongues than you.

If you know you can't stand a certain person, stop talking to them.  Charge it to the game and keep it moving.

[RealReality]

47 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

I feel like there was another occasion where Robyn & Gizelle didn't like the accommodations so they went to a hotel, or am I imagining that?

 

LOL, IIRC, Gizelle pulled the same stunt at Ashley's beach house when creepy Michael Darby showed up.  For all her dramatics, she ended up sleeping in the same room she was assigned at the beach house.  

[Chatty Cake]

Robin and Giz may have showed up late but they do need their own bathroom since it’s a trip with men and one of them wagging his tongue and being creepy flirty every chance he gets.

[Rorysmom]

Re: Candiace: It's one thing for us viewers who sometimes get only parts of an interaction or a housewife's personality and then make a judgment, to maybe be off-base or too harsh, etc. 

It's entirely another when the people on the show who know you in real life, including your own husband (!!), see the same thing--and have been on the receiving end of it a few times, too--and tell you in chorus to STOP, you need to STOP. 

Yes, she is very skilled at cutting to the quick with her words, and she usually (always?) does so as a reaction. But her retorts seem to come from a place of hurt that is outside and outsized of the situation.

Every time Candiace gets that crunk, I picture her lashing out at her mom, and the ladies are just proxies.

[drivethroo]

2 hours ago, Rorysmom said:

Yes, she is very skilled at cutting to the quick with her words, and she usually (always?) does so as a reaction. But her retorts seem to come from a place of hurt that is outside and outsized of the situation.

That's why Gizelle told her "we pinch you and you come back with a sledgehammer."

2 hours ago, Rorysmom said:

It's entirely another when the people on the show who know you in real life, including your own husband (!!), see the same thing--and have been on the receiving end of it a few times, too--and tell you in chorus to STOP, you need to STOP. 

Yes, she does need to stop. But I also see another pattern with her and I think she needs counseling to recognize the pattern and shut it down:

People close to her start chaos (or feed into it), Candiace is left dealing with the chaos and then Candiace gets blamed for the chaos the other people started:

I want Candiace to use her projector to reflect that chaos back on to the people who started it and keep it moving.  For example, the incident at Foxy's:

What Happened: Ashley started the incident at the table.  Candiace initially ignored Ashley.  Chris fed into the chaos by entertaining Ashley.  As Ashley started to attack Chris, then Candiace piped up. When Chris tried to talk further with Ashley, she dismissed him to go on the full attack with Candiace. Well, Candiace is going to respond at that point.  Then Chris starts manhandling Candiace like a child to get her up from the table in front of the other.  Then he leaves and goes outside and says "he's tired."

What Chris Should Have Done:  When Ashley piped up with her bullshit towards Chris, Chris should have told her firmly "Michael and I don't get along; you and my wife don't get along.  Maybe one day we can get to the point of being civil, but right now is not the time or place to discuss it."  If Ashley continued with the bullshit, Chris should've turned to Candiace and asked if she wanted to leave because he's not dealing with the bullshit and he doesn't want HER to deal with the bullshit.  I betcha Candiace would've left with nary a tantrum or tears.

What Candiace Should Have Done: When Ashley said "I'm done talking to you, I'm talking to your wife!" Candiace should've reflected the bullshit back onto to Chris and Ashley by telling Ashley "I don't like you and I don't want to talk to you.  You were having a conversation with my husband so you can continue addressing him."  This reflects the bullshit back on Chris, who shouldn't have been talking to Ashley in the first place and projects it back on Ashley, who started the situation in the first place.  Don't worry about throwing Chris under the bus because he threw Candiace under the bus first by 1) talking to Ashley in the first place 2) acting like it's Candiace's responsibility to stop a situation he fed into.

While Candiace does need to learn to control her emotions, she also needs to recognize many of the people around her BENEFIT from her tantrums and that's why they throw little chaos bombs onto her lap, then run away scot free.  She gets burnt but they have clean hands. I'm sorry but I would be tight if my husband was throwing me under the bus to make himself look better in front of these people, he's the mature one, he's being the bigger person (unlike Candiace).  Candiace knows what he was doing, which is why that cloud came over her face when Chris was trying to suck up to Ashley. 

I want Candiace to reflect/project everybody's bullshit back onto them and just concentrate on herself and her projects and endeavors.

Edited October 12, 2021 by drivethroo

[Rambunctiouscurls]

21 minutes ago, drivethroo said:

That's why Gizelle told her "we pinch you and you come back with a sledgehammer."

Yes, she does need to stop. But I also see another pattern with her and I think she needs counseling to recognize the pattern and shut it down:

People close to her start chaos (or feed into it), Candiace is left dealing with the chaos and then Candiace gets blamed for the chaos the other people started:

I want Candiace to use her projector to reflect that chaos back on to the people who started it and keep it moving.  For example, the incident at Foxy's:

What Happened: Ashley started the incident at the table.  Candiace initially ignored Ashley.  Chris fed into the chaos by entertaining Ashley.  As Ashley started to attack Chris, then Candiace piped up. When Chris tried to talk further with Ashley, she dismissed him to go on the full attack with Candiace. Well, Candiace is going to respond at that point.  Then Chris starts manhandling Candiace like a child to get her up from the table in front of the other.  Then he leaves and goes outside and says "he's tired."

What Chris Should Have Done:  When Ashley piped up with her bullshit towards Chris, Chris should have told her firmly "Michael and I don't get along; you and my wife don't get along.  Maybe one day we can get to the point of being civil, but right now is not the time or place to discuss it."  If Ashley continued with the bullshit, Chris should've turned to Candiace and asked if she wanted to leave because he's not dealing with the bullshit and he doesn't want HER to deal with the bullshit.  I betcha Candiace would've left with nary a tantrum or tears.

What Candiace Should Have Done: When Ashley said "I'm done talking to you, I'm talking to your wife!" Candiace should've reflected the bullshit back onto to Chris and Ashley by telling Ashley "I don't like you and I don't want to talk to you.  You were having a conversation with my husband so you can continue addressing him."  This reflects the bullshit back on Chris, who shouldn't have been talking to Ashley in the first place and projects it back on Ashley, who started the situation in the first place.  Don't worry about throwing Chris under the bus because he threw Candiace under the bus first by 1) talking to Ashley in the first place 2) acting like it's Candiace's responsibility to stop a situation he fed into.

While Candiace does need to learn to control her emotions, she also needs to recognize many of the people around her BENEFIT from her tantrums and that's why they throw little chaos bombs onto her lap, then run away scot free.  She gets burnt but they have clean hands. I'm sorry but I would be tight if my husband was throwing me under the bus to make himself look better in front of these people, he's the mature one, he's being the bigger person (unlike Candiace).  Candiace knows what he was doing, which is why that cloud came over her face when Chris was trying to suck up to Ashley. 

I want Candiace to reflect/project everybody's bullshit back onto them and just concentrate on herself and her projects and endeavors.

Well said. I wish I could like this post more because you hit the nail on the head on how it escalated to begin with. Chris attempting to remove Candiace from the table as you would an unruly toddler makes HIM look good at Candiace’s expense especially when we could all see how Ashley was loud and instigating the mess. Maybe he was just drunk but he engaged Ashley twice and twice Ashley took the opportunity to slam Candiace. 
 

I never liked or agreed when people dubbed him the Candiace whisperer. The only reason I could stand him was how he was the only one to stand up to creepy Darby but now he wishes he could get along with him and not get involved with the women’s issues with each other. How magnanimous of him. Candiace should start at home when watching her back. 

Edited October 12, 2021 by Rambunctiouscurls

[RealReality]

7 hours ago, Chatty Cake said:

Robin and Giz may have showed up late but they do need their own bathroom since it’s a trip with men and one of them wagging his tongue and being creepy flirty every chance he gets.

It seems like Ashley had her own bathroom and was willing to share.  

 

[Rorysmom]

Adding to my assessment, I also think that's why Candiace is so often crying and dabbing at the end of her arguments. Her arguments set off a true hurting and emotional trigger that goes far beyond battling with the ladies or even arguing with Chris.

Edited October 12, 2021 by Rorysmom

[RealReality]

2 hours ago, Rambunctiouscurls said:

Well said. I wish I could like this post more because you hit the nail on the head on how it escalated to begin with. Chris attempting to remove Candiace from the table as you would an unruly toddler makes HIM look good at Candiace’s expense especially when we could all see how Ashley was loud and instigating the mess. Maybe he was just drunk but he engaged Ashley twice and twice Ashley took the opportunity to slam Candiace. 
 

I never liked or agreed when people dubbed him the Candiace whisperer. The only reason I could stand him was how he was the only one to stand up to creepy Darby but now he wishes he could get along with him and not get involved with the women’s issues with each other. How magnanimous of him. Candiace should start at home when watching her back. 

I agree that I didn't like the optics of Chris trying to bodily remove Candace from the table.  I DO think he had her best interests at heart because he could see her walking into Ashley's trap, and knows that Candace has done a fairly decent job of staying above the fray for the first part of the season, which is likely part growth and part attempt to rehab her image.  

She is getting her movies, her songs, her TV roles, and I'm sure that, at some point, she would like to eventually transition into doing more of that and less of HW.  But she needs to walk a fine line.  She can't be so boring that she doesn't get camera time, but she can't say too much, because she is always disproportionately blamed for whatever drama she gets into because she is much better at using her words as weapons.  Ashley is not on the same trajectory as Candace, and so she doesn't need to care about what may come back to cancel her later.  

[Sharper2002]

2 hours ago, Rambunctiouscurls said:

Well said. I wish I could like this post more because you hit the nail on the head on how it escalated to begin with. Chris attempting to remove Candiace from the table as you would an unruly toddler makes HIM look good at Candiace’s expense especially when we could all see how Ashley was loud and instigating the mess. Maybe he was just drunk but he engaged Ashley twice and twice Ashley took the opportunity to slam Candiace. 

Completely agree as well. At this point, if I were Candiace I would ignore Ashley altogether – and put Chris on code to do the same. Even if that chick says “hello” I’d just keep on going and she can say whatever she wants. No good comes out of them interacting with her. 

Ashley’s newfound mother (literally) Teresa image aside, she has one of the messiest histories as a housewife. The focus is now on her raising her babies, but a reel of her history on the show won’t look too flattering for her or her “husband”. 

[byrd]

On 10/11/2021 at 2:03 PM, Yours Truly said:

My thing is this. I really do believe in controlling yourself in an argument and I also DO NOT condone putting hands on anyone. With that said, I do believe that that EXACT same energy should be applied to not condoning verbal abuse, aggression and attempts at being intimidating. Do I think people resorting to physical violence is acceptable? NOPE. Will I feel bad for Candance if she gets the shit slapped outta her cause she fucked with the wrong one? NOPE.  Candace doesn't get a green light just cause her abuse is verbal. I don't understand these text book ideas that a person can be ugly, verbally intrusive, hurtful and have aggressive bodily language but that's all Gucchi cause she's not laying hand on no one. Nah, miss me with that shit. It's a universal understanding that provoking people is an at risk sport and I think a bitch like Candace is clueless about how much jeopardy she puts herself in. Now, like I said, I don't think it should resort to physical violence but to think someone should feel sorry for a person who deliberately puts herself in these sort of situations with her own VERY AGGRESSIVE nature is absolutely bonkers to me. I tell you what, fucking with my peace DOES test my patience and self control and to be frank I don't think it should be all that confusing to understand why a person may lose control. Doesn't make it right but it does make it understandable. People who want to abuse in ALTERNATIVE ways like, oh I don't know, aggressively provoking and agitating a person shouldn't be considered 100% innocent and their role in it should matter. Tired of the pretend theories that say a person who doesn't lash out physically but does all they can to cut in all other ways is absolved of all wrong doing. That's not reality. 

The thing I always think of is, sure you're technically not in the wrong and you have the law on your side but in reality what would you rather? Having the law on your side while in the hospital with you jaw wired shut? or maybe you should just throw your shade, have a little back and forth then leave well enough alone without going the extra step of testing fate by doing the whole "wish a motherfucker would" gamble then LOSING BIG TIME? Like she did last year with Monique. Sure Monique is gone but not before Candace got dragged and who is  apparently still dealing with personal trauma from that altercation. Candace will definitely have plenty of people in her corner and the culprit will more than likely reap some sort of punishment but at what price? Bitch in the hospital with her jaw broke. Like really? That makes no sense. All that just so she can be an asshole that hits below the belt and cuts deep? Also counting on the person you're antagonizing and egging on to NOT hurt you while you go for the jugular each and every time is not only the stupidest and most ridiculous strategy I could think of but the fact that people really believe this makes absolute sense makes it bizarre to me as well.  

Add the fact that Candace does like to try and buck but really ain't about that life. Sometimes people really do need to check themselves before they wreck themselves and Candace is a PRIME example. 

Thank you , this is exactly what I have been trying to express, however your eloquence is unmatched.  

Edited October 12, 2021 by byrd

[drivethroo]

37 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I DO think he had her best interests at heart because he could see her walking into Ashley's trap, and knows that Candace has done a fairly decent job of staying above the fray for the first part of the season, which is likely part growth and part attempt to rehab her image.  

 

5 minutes ago, Sharper2002 said:

At this point, if I were Candiace I would ignore Ashley altogether – and put Chris on code to do the same.

Chris did help fuel the BS that started at the restaurant, then blamed Candiace for reacting to the chaos he fueled. Chris definitely needs to be on code; present a united front in public, then tell her to chill when you get in private. 

We often take our cues about how to treat a person and what level of respect to give to them by watching what their support system or supposed support system does for them.

When Mia threw the lettuce and Candiace was calling G a pimp and for him to come get his bitch, G stayed on code with Mia.  He didn't address Candiace (because then that might've brought Chris down into the action).  He didn't snatch Mia up and drag her away like a child (note, when Chris came to get Candiace after the salad toss, Candiace said "Great, now I'm getting in trouble."

G listened to Mia's side of the story, did not chastise her in front of the others and said "Whatever Mia wants is what I will do.  I don't want to be here anyway, but if Mia wants to stay, then I will stay.  If Mia wants to go, then I will go."

Even Michael and Ashley stay on code pretty much within the group.  Michael doesn't hem Ashley up like a child when she goes off on Candiace, he joins in.

Don't do that again, Chris.  If you see a situation getting ready to boil over and you see Candiace going sideways, you shut it down and get Candiace out of there before she gets going.  Don't snatch her up like a child or chastise her in front of the group.

In the words of the great Will Smith when Lil Bow Wow came for him, "I don't fight with children."  If Grace or the Twins came on the show trying to fight Karen in the name of their parents, would Karen fight with them*? No, she would regard them as children, not stoop down to their level and put them on ignore.

So if the rest of the cast feels Candiace is just a child (and they do), then they need to think about how they would treat their own children when they throw tantrums and treat Candiace accordingly when she throws a tantrum.  If Mia's kids throw toys around and throw a tantrum, what does she do? Does she throw a toy back at them or scream at them? What does she do?

Chris, when your kids throw a tantrum, do you hem them up? Yell at them in public? What do you do? We all know Dorothy spanks Candiace in public when she acts up.

I really think this thirst to see Candiace ass whooped and beaten for "her mouth" is really cast/viewers seeing Candiace as a smart aleck child who needs a good ass whooping with that belt/broom/switch/shoe for being bad (and she bet not cry about it either--black folks know what I'm talking about).  I don't think a lot of these viewers are going around beating other adults for talking slick but they are going upside their children's heads when they talk slick.  Lots to unpack.

*Karen absolutely strikes me as someone who would not fuss with say, Grace, but WOULD call Grace's job to try to get her fired.

 

[byrd]

On 10/11/2021 at 2:03 PM, Yours Truly said:

My thing is this. I really do believe in controlling yourself in an argument and I also DO NOT condone putting hands on anyone. With that said, I do believe that that EXACT same energy should be applied to not condoning verbal abuse, aggression and attempts at being intimidating. Do I think people resorting to physical violence is acceptable? NOPE. Will I feel bad for Candance if she gets the shit slapped outta her cause she fucked with the wrong one? NOPE.  Candace doesn't get a green light just cause her abuse is verbal. I don't understand these text book ideas that a person can be ugly, verbally intrusive, hurtful and have aggressive bodily language but that's all Gucchi cause she's not laying hand on no one. Nah, miss me with that shit. It's a universal understanding that provoking people is an at risk sport and I think a bitch like Candace is clueless about how much jeopardy she puts herself in. Now, like I said, I don't think it should resort to physical violence but to think someone should feel sorry for a person who deliberately puts herself in these sort of situations with her own VERY AGGRESSIVE nature is absolutely bonkers to me. I tell you what, fucking with my peace DOES test my patience and self control and to be frank I don't think it should be all that confusing to understand why a person may lose control. Doesn't make it right but it does make it understandable. People who want to abuse in ALTERNATIVE ways like, oh I don't know, aggressively provoking and agitating a person shouldn't be considered 100% innocent and their role in it should matter. Tired of the pretend theories that say a person who doesn't lash out physically but does all they can to cut in all other ways is absolved of all wrong doing. That's not reality. 

The thing I always think of is, sure you're technically not in the wrong and you have the law on your side but in reality what would you rather? Having the law on your side while in the hospital with you jaw wired shut? or maybe you should just throw your shade, have a little back and forth then leave well enough alone without going the extra step of testing fate by doing the whole "wish a motherfucker would" gamble then LOSING BIG TIME? Like she did last year with Monique. Sure Monique is gone but not before Candace got dragged and who is  apparently still dealing with personal trauma from that altercation. Candace will definitely have plenty of people in her corner and the culprit will more than likely reap some sort of punishment but at what price? Bitch in the hospital with her jaw broke. Like really? That makes no sense. All that just so she can be an asshole that hits below the belt and cuts deep? Also counting on the person you're antagonizing and egging on to NOT hurt you while you go for the jugular each and every time is not only the stupidest and most ridiculous strategy I could think of but the fact that people really believe this makes absolute sense makes it bizarre to me as well.  

Add the fact that Candace does like to try and buck but really ain't about that life. Sometimes people really do need to check themselves before they wreck themselves and Candace is a PRIME example. 

Also  when I was growing up, those" Yo Mommy"  insults were grounds for a ass whoopin !  

[TheCouchPotato]

Was G having a seizure? What in the world was happening with his to tongue.

I just love Karen. Her comment about a tea bag was priceless. I like just my tea as well! 

Candiace needs anger management. She is a little chihuahua that just keeps incessantly yapping even when no one is in the room. 

 

 

Edited October 12, 2021 by TheCouchPotato