S02.E09: Summer School: Chapter Nine

[scarynikki12]

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As Eclipso takes aim at the Whitmore/Dugan's, Pat is reminded of painful memories from his past involving the original JSA and their fight to take down Eclipso.

 

 

[Primal Slayer]

It was a fairly enjoyable episode but it left me wanting more BUT MY LORD! This season is seriously lacking in the action department. They say that the show wouldn't suffer in its move to TheCW but it's painfully obvious that they are writing to save budget.

This is probably the most we'll see of the OG JSA and I wanted to see them work together as team, have an awesome fight scene against Eclipso, and how having to take a human life impacted them instead of just hearing about it. You bring us Jay Garrick! Put him to some good use and give us some info about him. 

It was great to see Jordan/Icicle again, he was a great villain and I still hope that he isn't dead, just taking a REALLLLLY long time to pull himself together. 

The Shade has definitely become one of my favorite new characters/anti-villains this season. Just love it whenever he shows up on screen.

 

[cambridgeguy]

If that was the only time Jay is going to show up then it was kind of a waste - he didn't even get to do any Flash stuff and was only there to be the one guy who didn't treat Pat like dirt.  Plus they once again have all of this happening "decades ago" - just how old is Pat supposed to be?

In the end the big secret wasn't even that big of a deal (say Courtney, didn't you and Yolanda hide similar information from everyone else?) and as pissed as she is I don't see how that knowledge would have helped in any way.  There isn't even a host to contemplate killing, and ironically enough would have given Yolanda even more guilt since she'd think her actions would drive apart the new JSA.

[Lantern7]

Observation: Pat withholds stuff from Courtney and deters the new JSA because most of the original team treated him like shit. It’s an unconscious thing. “I vote we kill Eclipso’s host. Start the car.” “But . . . but I voted no.” “START. THE. CAR. STRIPESY.”

Actually, if Eclipso can take on Spectre and Dr. Fate, it really is an “all options on the big table” matter.

Eclipso made Mike think Cameron flash-froze Buddy. Eclipso can fucking die forever. Even if it was an illusion, I cheered Buddy going into attack position . . . and them Cam killed him.

Okay, so there is a Jay Garrick on Earth-2. So who’s the Jay that popped up on The Flash? Whatever . . , Jay is good here. I don’t think you can get JWS in a Flash suit and tell him to act like a dick.

[Pepper the Cat]

Buddy for the win!

[AnimeMania]

It is not like the information that Pat had was going to help them. Yolanda was the only one willing to kill someone, and she was afraid that she might have to do it again because the rest of the JSA members would not. Who are they supposed to kill, the little boy, is he a real little boy or is it suppose to be Cynthia Burman/Shiv, is she still in a realm that the JSA can reach, in order to kill her.

Two episodes in a row that was primarily filmed in that house. It makes me wonder where the budget for the series went.

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

It is not like the information that Pat had was going to help them. Yolanda was the only one willing to kill someone, and she was afraid that she might have to do it again because the rest of the JSA members would not. Who are they supposed to kill, the little boy, is he a real little boy or is it suppose to be Cynthia Burman/Shiv, is she still in a realm that the JSA can reach, in order to kill her.

Two episodes in a row that was primarily filmed in that house. It makes me wonder where the budget for the series went.

Cut in half with the move to The CW. Thats what happened to GA&tC, CW wanted HBO Max to pay all the of start up costs, sets, etc..then take it over at a cheaper rate. DCU paid for all the Stargirl sets, special effects build up and now the show is using whatever little budget it has to do Eclipso, storms, all that jazz. (not 100% sure of course but...likely what happened)

[Frozendiva]

A bottle episode with little spent. Liked seeing the Flash but felt like a meh ep. Bookend of creepy kid Bruce Gordon. Buddy saved the day.

[shapeshifter]

Joel McHale should stick to comedy.

[cambridgeguy]

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Observation: Pat withholds stuff from Courtney and deters the new JSA because most of the original team treated him like shit. It’s an unconscious thing. “I vote we kill Eclipso’s host. Start the car.” “But . . . but I voted no.” “START. THE. CAR. STRIPESY.”

It's even douchier if Wildcat and Hourman were with Starman when they went to Bruce Gordon's house.  Even with the staff and an intent to kill I don't think Sylverster could have soloed the guy who whipped GL, the Spectre (non-Oliver Queen edition), Dr. Fate, etc. so they must have been there.  Is Sylvester such an ass that he insists on being driven around by Pat even though he could just grab the keys himself or catch a ride with the others?  On the plus side, it looks like cold blooded murder doesn't disqualify you from wielding the staff, so Courtney has no need to worry about it being overly judgemental if she ever does cross the line.

[shapeshifter]

Does Pat know about Yolanda killing the icicle villain? It seemed like this episode was backstory for the resolution of Yolanda’s angst through some elder counseling of Yolanda by Pat/Stripsey.

[AnimeMania]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Does Pat know about Yolanda killing the icicle villain? It seemed like this episode was backstory for the resolution of Yolanda’s angst through some elder counseling of Yolanda by Pat/Stripsey.

I think Pat does know, but "holier than thou" Pat is not the person you want to lecture Yolanda if you want her to feel better about herself and her decision to take a life.

[Lantern7]

4 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Does Pat know about Yolanda killing the icicle villain? It seemed like this episode was backstory for the resolution of Yolanda’s angst through some elder counseling of Yolanda by Pat/Stripsey.

1 hour ago, AnimeMania said:

I think Pat does know, but "holier than thou" Pat is not the person you want to lecture Yolanda if you want her to feel better about herself and her decision to take a life.

“I was an accessory to the murder of an innocent man, and we voted on it. If it makes you feel better, I don’t think yours was premeditated, and at least the bulk of your teammates aren’t assholes like mine were.” She’d probably still feel guilty, though.

”Buddy” is now the official name for the dog, yes? I think there are a few others posted on Wikis.

Need a mild chuckle? Imagine that Pat had to drive the car because Rex, Ted and Sylvester didn’t have licenses. That might also apply to Jay, but who needs a car when you’re the dang Flash?

[kirinan]

I don't know if they were trying to make Pat seem more boyish by his puppy-dog manner in the flashbacks, but producers, that ship has sailed. Luke Wilson is a (very good-looking, IMO) middle-aged man, so let him own his weariness and his mileage, please. The timeline from the flashback to today doesn't seem to make sense (unless Pat is immortal), so producers, even if you couldn't de-age him with CGI, couldn't you have hired an actor who resembles Luke to play a young Pat? 

I'm still not sold on this season, even this far in. Too much dark and depressing, too many secrets and arguments, too many story elements I don't care for. (Although I do heartily approve of The Shade; thank goodness he showed up last night!) However, I do enjoy it when I learn things, like that Joel McHale is way taller than I thought he was--6'4", I think I read.

Edited October 6, 2021 by kirinan

[Snapdragon]

So I'm guessing that the flashback scenes took place maybe 15-20 years ago but since the show is on a different Earth, stylistically at that time they were in the 50s/60s?  That would explain why Dr. Midnite isn't 90 years old now.  Also why Pat has such a vintage car.  

I really enjoyed this episode, though I think the "blood on your hands" vision would have made a lot more since if Pat had actually voted to kill Bruce Gordon.  And was the woman Gordon was in love with Dr. Midnite's wife? Is that why he killed Rebecca?  In an attempt to break up the family so that Gordon could marry the wife?  

I'm generally not a horror person but I'm really enjoying this season.  It's the perfect level of scary/creepy for my wussy self.  LOL.

[magicdog]

17 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

If that was the only time Jay is going to show up then it was kind of a waste - he didn't even get to do any Flash stuff and was only there to be the one guy who didn't treat Pat like dirt. 

Agreed!  JWS still looks awesome and I don't mind seeing him (glad he was one of the 'no' votes!) but was hoping to see him in action.  I was a little annoyed when Pat asked that question at the funeral and he was admonished that "only members get to ask questions".  How condescending!

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Plus they once again have all of this happening "decades ago" - just how old is Pat supposed to be?

I'm curious about this too!  It's like they started in the early -mid 50s then skipped to 2010!  Either the culture changed differently on this Earth or  there was a time jump for our heroes.  McNider was born in 1914 yet we're supposed to believe he was a 90 year old man in the flashbacks to when the ISA took them out?

 

58 minutes ago, Snapdragon said:

And was the woman Gordon was in love with Dr. Midnite's wife? Is that why he killed Rebecca?  In an attempt to break up the family so that Gordon could marry the wife?  

 

This makes sense.  It also would explain why Rebecca was targeted.  It wasn't necessarily because she was Dr. Midnight's daughter, but because her father and she were obstacles to be eliminated so Gordon could have his lost love back.  

 

7 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Is Sylvester such an ass that he insists on being driven around by Pat even though he could just grab the keys himself or catch a ride with the others?

Apparently yes!  He's a rich kid after all, he probably doesn't even need a license, Pat's been a driver for the family for years.

For a while I was guessing if Icicle really had come back!  It was nice to see Shade help Barbara out of the illusion.  I knew Cameron wasn't real especially when Mike started choking.  We know Cameron has ice powers, but not telekinesis.

 

[MissLucas]

ah, that good old horror trope: an evil entity that can make people hallucinate is about to strike - so let's NOT stick together and make sure the one person who can stop the hallucinations is nowhere around when her family gets picked apart one by one *eyeroll*

So, the JSA was a bunch of jerks including Starman - why exactly did he need a chauffeur? Also: math is my weakness so what am I missing here? The JSA came to the garage because they wanted a vote that would not end in a tie but they had not even voted yet? Had there been a precedent for this? Apparently not, since Wildcat was against Pat getting a vote. And then the members-only vote was no tie at all. So why drag Pat into this mess in the first place? Bunch of drama queens! Also, Bruce Gordon was not quite the innocent victim. Eclipso gave him a clear choice but in the end his greed and lust won out - that's at least how I understood the scene.

Speaking of drama queens: geez, Courtney - of course you have been completely honest and kept no secrets. And nope, the fact that it was Yolanda's secret is not exactly a valid excuse when you demand that everybody else has to be 100% honest no matter the consequences.

The weird 60s vibe in the flashback scenes makes me wonder if Pat has his own version of Dorian Gray's portrait stashed away in the workshop.

One interesting bit of info this episode produced for me: Mike's mother left - did we know that before? I had always assumed that she was dead.

Episode's MVP: The Shade and Buddy.

 

[rmontro]

I liked the episode, but yeah I'm missing last year's effects budget.  Nine episodes this season, and still no S.T.R.I.P.E.  Heck, there's barely any staff anymore since it's half fizzled out.  But I liked the psychodrama, and I get a kick out of just seeing the original JSA's costumes, even if they don't do anything onscreen.  

8 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Is Sylvester such an ass that he insists on being driven around by Pat even though he could just grab the keys himself or catch a ride with the others? 

Sylvester does seem like a douche.  But to be fair, Pat's side did lose the vote.

[Quark]

Enjoyable episode. Was great seeing Icicle again (I also hope he can reform) and Hunter Sansone did a good job playing the bad guy.

The Flash appearance was pointless. It didn't seem like it added anything to the episode. I bit like all the Diggle crossovers in the Arrowverse shows.

[cambridgeguy]

7 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

I think Pat does know, but "holier than thou" Pat is not the person you want to lecture Yolanda if you want her to feel better about herself and her decision to take a life.

Pat absolutely knows, Courtney told everyone at the end of the Yolanda episode.  If he really was holier than thou he would have had more of a reaction than "give her time" and he definitely would have split up from Sylvester for good rather than continuing to serve as his lackey.  It's pretty standard for many heroes to be vehemently opposed to killing the baddies - imagine how Batman or Superman would have reacted to the JSA vote.

[bettername2come]

I love that in his hallucination, Mike had no doubt that Buddy would come to his rescue and attack the villain. Thanks for giving Buddy credit. This was a good psychological episode, and I enjoyed seeing the JSA. Poor Pat, sure, you don't get to ask questions but you've got to help them break a "let's kill people" tie. You have as much voting input in the JSA as the dog got when you wanted to go to Yellowstone. And Jay gets to stay out of it, but Pat doesn't? Rude. 

My real question about Mike's mother is was she still in the picture when the JSA was killed? Did she know about Pat's sidekicking? Did she leave while the JSA children were actively in danger? I need to know how much I dislike this woman. 

 

[shapeshifter]

7 hours ago, kirinan said:

I'm still not sold on this season, even this far in. Too much dark and depressing, too many secrets and arguments, too many story elements I don't care for. (Although I do heartily approve of The Shade; thank goodness he showed up last night!)

↑This makes 2 of us.

How many supervillains have we seen in love with/have a crush on Barbara?

 

[magicdog]

5 hours ago, bettername2come said:

My real question about Mike's mother is was she still in the picture when the JSA was killed? Did she know about Pat's sidekicking? Did she leave while the JSA children were actively in danger? I need to know how much I dislike this woman. 

 

 

8 hours ago, MissLucas said:

One interesting bit of info this episode produced for me: Mike's mother left - did we know that before? I had always assumed that she was dead.

It was mentioned he was divorced and Starman was talking to her a few episodes back (working as a waitress in another state).  Apparently she had more than one failed marriage.   Shame she didn't choose to be a mother to her own son.  Whether she knew about Pat's life with the JSA is unknown at this point.

[tennisgurl]

I know that this season has been dark, but I am really glad that we haven't gone "dog murder" dark. I was very concerned about Buddy, who is a very good boy, I was very relived when it turned out he was just part of the illusion. This season is clearly trying to stay under budget (still no STRIPE in action) but they have dealt with that pretty well, going for a more low key horror tone instead of a big bombastic superhero tone from last season. We learn the lesson that everyone in the CW have to learn, that secrets are bad and will only lead to people storming out of rooms in a huff instead of fighting bad guys. 

Nice seeing some flashbacks to the original JSA, including John Wesley Shipp as Jay Garrick back again, possibly as some version of the Jay we know from the main Arrowverse (multiverses are funny) where we find out that they killed the original host of Eclipso and it led to much drama. I get not wanting to kill someone, but the guy was hardly an innocent victim, he might have felt bad about what was going on but he was still apparently going along with it for his own gain, and I always find it annoying when shows bring up the "do we kill or not" argument without even really making a real argument. "We shouldn't kill him!" "Why?" "Because its bad! We have to find another way!" "What other way?" "...another way!" The JSA were really a bunch of dicks to poor Pat weren't they? Most of them seemed to treat him like garbage, even Sylvester. Who apparently cant even drive his own damn car.

I know this show takes place in a kind of vague time period, but how old IS Pat exactly? He was about the same age several decades ago, does he have a magic painting stashed somewhere in the basement? Did the 80s in this universe just happen to look like the 50s did in ours?

I think this is the first reference to Mike's mom leaving, I wonder what the story there is? Is it like Courtney's dad and she's just a garden variety absentee parent, or was there something else going on, like Courtney originally thought about her dad? The whole family except for Courtney getting creepy visions was really intense, it was cool seeing Icicle again even if he was just a hallucination. At least The Shade was there to help out, he has really become the seasons MVP. I am glad to even hear his voice, he's just so damn cool. 

I am curious about how Yolanda would respond to what the JSA did. Pat really needs to check in with her, she needs an adult who can talk to her about this and how she can move past what happened. 

Edited October 7, 2021 by tennisgurl

[MissLucas]

The more I think about the JSA's weird decision making process the more I wish season one Oliver Queen had been part of the team instead of the Flash, he'd have rolled his eyes while they were bickering then he'd disappear to deal with Gordon on his own before returning to his kill-list LOL!

[rmontro]

21 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

It's pretty standard for many heroes to be vehemently opposed to killing the baddies - imagine how Batman or Superman would have reacted to the JSA vote.

This was even more complicated than that though, because they were talking about killing Eclipso's host - basically an innocent victim.

[shapeshifter]

12 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

The more I think about the JSA's weird decision making process the more I wish season one Oliver Queen had been part of the team instead of the Flash, he'd have rolled his eyes while they were bickering then he'd disappear to deal with Gordon on his own before returning to his kill-list LOL!

4 minutes ago, rmontro said:

This was even more complicated than that though, because they were talking about killing Eclipso's host - basically an innocent victim.

True. So I guess season one Ollie/Arrow would've wrestled the host to gain possession of the Eclipso diamond, and then killed himself, only to be resurrected somehow or other.

 

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 10/6/2021 at 7:55 AM, shapeshifter said:

Does Pat know about Yolanda killing the icicle villain?

Brainwave. And yes, we saw Courtney tell her parents at the house after Yolanda quit in the church.

On 10/6/2021 at 2:13 PM, Snapdragon said:

And was the woman Gordon was in love with Dr. Midnite's wife?

No. That woman's name was Mona, Dr. Mid-Nite's wife's name was Myra. We heard both names in this episode.

Edited October 8, 2021 by Noneofyourbusiness

[Terrafamilia]

What I really want to know is why Pat keeps his band-aids way down in the basement instead of the kitchen or bathroom medicine cabinet.

[thuganomics85]

Playing some catch-up this week!

Suspected that both Icicle and Cameron were going to be part of Eclipso's meddling and it was pretty much confirmed when Cameron err... "iced" Buddy because as dark as this season has been, I really don't see them ever crossing the "kill the adorable bulldog" line.  Sure, even kids are apparently not off the table here (and that includes the first season), but the death of pets is a no go!  Still, it was great seeing Neil Jackson again (and saving his name for the end credits) and Hunter Sansone made a good case for a potential Evil Cameron someday.

So, Pat's big, horrible secret was that the JSA discovered that the only way to trap Eclipso is to kill the host, which is usually a no go for the JSA.  But that all changed when Sylvester, Dr. McNider, and Wildcat decided it was the only option and went through with it much to Pat (and Jay Garrick!)'s chagrin.  I know these dilemmas are popular in the comic book world and they can lead to interesting debates, but this really felt like a case where there was no other option.  And it wasn't like Bruce Gordon was innocent in all of this.  Not saying that he deserved it, but it really does feel like it had to be done because Eclipso is just so over-powered.

At least Pat got to reveal the secret himself to Courtney, but I'm not surprised it still ends with her being pissed at him and Barbara.  On one hand, yeah, I can see why should be upset and frustrated with their secrecy and hypocrisy.  On the other hand, this is clearly not the best time to be fractured like this: especially since they're still down two members.  Yell at them later, Court.  You've got an Eclipso problem to deal with!

The Shade really is becoming one of the best "anti-heroes" in the Arrowverse.

Great seeing Jay Garrick, but I wish he had more to do.

[shapeshifter]

6 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Suspected that both Icicle and Cameron were going to be part of Eclipso's meddling and it was pretty much confirmed when Cameron err... "iced" Buddy

Wait. So Icicle and Cameron (when he was being evil) were real? I thought they were hallucinations implanted by Eclipso.

I am so confused.

Edited October 9, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Spaceman Spiff]

On 10/6/2021 at 2:18 PM, magicdog said:

We know Cameron has ice powers, but not telekinesis.

I just assumed he formed some kind of ice cube in his throat causing him to choke.

 

9 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Wait. So Icicle and Cameron (when he was being evil) were real? I thought they were hallucinations implanted by Eclipso.

They were illusions as depicted when Courtney ran into the room while Mike was struggling to breath, there was no one else in room, and when Shade told Barbara to fight the illusion, that it wasn't real and to just "start the car"

[Noneofyourbusiness]

On 10/8/2021 at 10:51 PM, shapeshifter said:

Wait. So Icicle and Cameron (when he was being evil) were real? I thought they were hallucinations implanted by Eclipso.

I am so confused.

No, they weren't. That's what thuganomics85 meant by "confirmed to be part of Eclipso's meddling". Confirmed that they weren't real.