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S05.E09: And the End Was Violent...


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Liz and Diane struggle to get David Lee and the Dubai overlords to accept the new name partner, Allegra Jurado. Oscar Rivi attempts to make his cannabis business legitimate, but realizes that the corporate world can be just as cut-throat as his own. When the justice system fails to detain and prevent a man from continually committing anti-Asian hate crime, the cops discover another way for justice -- Wackner's court.

Original air date: August 19, 2021

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Less than three minutes in, and the actual cops are taking an actual violent, xenophobic, repeat-offender asshole to make-believe 'judge' Wackner's 'court' of bizarro-world.

Sorry, I'm not sticking around to see how that particularly shitty idea pans out. Episode stopped at the 3:00 minute mark, and deleted from system. Will try again next week, but only one more episode to go in searon 5, so if it also is pure Wackner crapola, I don't know that I'll be back for S6.

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I'm really not sure where they are going with Wackner.  There is certainly something to the idea that the current system is not working as it should, but this storyline isn't convincing me of anything.  Wackner's obviously out of control, and certainly he and the police are likely committing crimes in colluding with one another to imprison people against their will.  I'm not even sure of what to make of the Wackner knock off imprisoning people in her basement.  I presume her imprisoning Rivi's guy will backfire on her at some point.  

On the positive side, I liked Wanda Sykes this week, and was amused that getting revenge on the dairy people meant whacking three of their cows.    

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Just now, txhorns79 said:

I'm really not sure where they are going with Wackner.

I'm beginning to wonder.

I've always thought this show's over-the-top PC, wokism & TDS was a sort of hilariously ironic satire. But maybe TPTB honestly believe in all that over-the-top wokism/TDS/PC culture? Maybe they are actually advocating for the overthrow of the legitimate judicial system, and it's replacement by "People's Courts"? Where the the "people" are basically any whackjob who can get enough idiots to follow them, can afford their own rope, and know how to tie a noose?

Because taken as over-the-top comedy, this show is -- or at least was -- funny. But if it's serious, it's scary and dangerous.

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Maybe they are actually advocating for the overthrow of the legitimate judicial system, and it's replacement by "People's Courts"? Where the the "people" are basically any whackjob who can get enough idiots to follow them, can afford their own rope, and know how to tie a noose?

Oh, I don’t think they want us to see Wackner’s court as admirable or desirable at all but as something that’s getting more and more dangerous.  If anything it’s a very clumsy satire of populism and reality tv, particularly how those two things have merged in increasingly harmful ways in the last decade with people thinking that despite any real qualifications they could do a better job and taking things into their own hands.

The problem with this whole storyline is that social satire has to be at least somewhat grounded in reality to be genuinely effective and they’ve gone so far into not-at-all believable scenarios that this might as well be fantasy/science fiction.  I mean it’s not even worth the time thinking of how many obvious plotholes there are in this and why Wackner wouldn’t be quickly sued/run out of existence by countless people including the Feds.

It’s just dumb, frankly, and not at all what The Good Fight is best at doing. If anything, Alegra surprisingly making a convincing argument that they need to tell Dubai that they need more money and workers, not less— since that makes them look less weak— is the kind of storyline and turn that feels like more classic Good Wife/Good Fight.   The “character who seems like a weirdo incompetent at first but suddenly has flashes of brilliance and saves the day” is a recurring theme where they’ve often done best.  And I did laugh at the cats, silly as that was.  This felt like an Elsbeth kind of story, which are usually my favorites.

Edited by bobbyjoe
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5 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm really not sure where they are going with Wackner.  There is certainly something to the idea that the current system is not working as it should, but this storyline isn't convincing me of anything.  Wackner's obviously out of control, and certainly he and the police are likely committing crimes in colluding with one another to imprison people against their will.  I'm not even sure of what to make of the Wackner knock off imprisoning people in her basement.  I presume her imprisoning Rivi's guy will backfire on her at some point. 

 

5 hours ago, Netfoot said:

I've always thought this show's over-the-top PC, wokism & TDS was a sort of hilariously ironic satire. But maybe TPTB honestly believe in all that over-the-top wokism/TDS/PC culture? Maybe they are actually advocating for the overthrow of the legitimate judicial system, and it's replacement by "People's Courts"? Where the the "people" are basically any whackjob who can get enough idiots to follow them, can afford their own rope, and know how to tie a noose?

 

1 hour ago, bobbyjoe said:

Oh, I don’t think they want us to see Wackner’s court as admirable or desirable at all but as something that’s getting more and more dangerous.  If anything it’s a very clumsy satire of populism and reality tv, particularly how those two things have merged in increasingly harmful ways in the last decade with people thinking that despite any real qualifications they could do a better job and taking things into their own hands.

The problem with this whole storyline is that social satire has to be at least somewhat grounded in reality to be genuinely effective and they’ve gone so far into not-at-all believable scenarios that this might as well be fantasy/science fiction.  I mean it’s not even worth the time thinking of how many obvious plotholes there are in this and why Wackner wouldn’t be quickly sued/run out of existence by countless people including the Feds.

I agree that there are serious problems with Wackner's "court" in addition that it has no legal basis. 

Yet, I think that the greatest problems is with the existing legal system that can't give any justice to ordinary people. When the police caught a drug-dealer, he boast that the court would set him free. And Diane and Liz's firm that was meant to help Afro-Americans unjustly dealt by the police and in the court now serve that drug boss and other criminals because they pay them most. Yes, everyone deserves to be defended etc. but the result is that nobody defends ordinary people who must live scared in their neighborhood.

"Safe drugs" for kids - would it really be legal? At least it was totally immoral. And nobody in the firm cared only their big payment for the contract.

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9 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

The “character who seems like a weirdo incompetent at first but suddenly has flashes of brilliance and saves the day” is a recurring theme where they’ve often done best.  And I did laugh at the cats, silly as that was.  This felt like an Elsbeth kind of story, which are usually my favorites.

She does have an Elsbeth vibe.  I miss that character. 

 

9 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

 

The problem with this whole storyline is that social satire has to be at least somewhat grounded in reality to be genuinely effective and they’ve gone so far into not-at-all believable scenarios that this might as well be fantasy/science fiction.  I mean it’s not even worth the time thinking of how many obvious plotholes there are in this and why Wackner wouldn’t be quickly sued/run out of existence by countless people including the Feds.

Yes, the moment he started handling criminal proceedings, it should have been game over.  There are Constitutional rights at issue, and this set up the Judge and his tv show, along with the police department for some very real lawsuits.

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On 8/19/2021 at 9:04 PM, Netfoot said:

Maybe they are actually advocating for the overthrow of the legitimate judicial system, and it's replacement by "People's Courts"? Where the the "people" are basically any whackjob who can get enough idiots to follow them, can afford their own rope, and know how to tie a noose?

Marissa's our guide to Wackner's Court.  In the beginning, she was intrigued at the idea that regular people could get justice based on what appeared to be common sense. 

But then the billionaire got involved.  She saw Wackner potentially having his "ethics" compromised.  We see her uneasy over locking people up or treating this as a criminal court as opposed to just civil. I believe that's the path they want us to follow in regards to that court.  I think we were supposed to think it was a cool idea at first but is corrupted now. A court outside of the legal system subject to similar outside influences as the regular justice system.

 

Edited by Irlandesa
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She does have an Elsbeth vibe.  I miss that character. 

What’s weird is that Carrie Preston, who plays Elsbeth, directed an episode of Good Fight this season.  So I’m hoping we haven’t seen the last of Elsbeth, since her portrayer is still keeping connections to the show.

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I think there's also a commentary on how the billionaire is profiting not just by the reality show but by the sending of people to his private prison.

There's conflicts of interest all over the place in this "court". Wackner seemed at first to have justice as a goal but ego and power got in the way. 

The last couple of seasons have started out strong and then just meandered into silliness and serious lack of credibility.

I must say, to save CCH Pounder for the last couple of episodes seems like a rip off. I was hoping for more of her....and yeah, MP annoys me no matter what he's in.

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I can't stand Oskar Rivi or his deaf wife or the fact the firm is so afraid of him that they kowtow to his every inclination, and are trying to help him become legitimate. I think, in this entire season, the fact that they are representing this drug-dealing scum of the earth who is a murderer just because he can afford to pay them makes it hard for me to care about any of the stances Diane, or the firm, may take.

Throw in the stupid fake court and how it seems that power is going to Wackner's head, and I'm disappointed in the season.

I guess the episode was showing all of the firm's mixed up representations as Rivi and Wackner are both their clients.

I thought last season was a standout, and was really looking forward to more exploration of, I don't know, issues, and maybe that's what they think they're doing, but I sure hope Rivi ends up at the bottom of the ocean. Ugh. 

I love Jay, the investigator, and usually enjoy it when David Lee shows up, and I've really enjoyed Carmen even, but Marissa this season is bugging me.  

I hope the next episode is great. Let's get back to the FBI investigating them.  🤩

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Private prison in someone's basement. Ehhh. More like kidnapping. It's nuts.

Women always want consensus? In what universe? In my experience in an office environment women were usually the worst backstabbers. I seriously cannot stand Liz's boyfriend and hope she gets her eyes opened about what that guy is really about. His dick can't be that good.

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this show has really jumped the shark.

Kind of like how real life did starting a few years ago. 😉

I feel like I know where they're going with all this and I hope at some point they let the audience know that it was a cautionary tale sort of thing. “All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing.”

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On 8/24/2021 at 2:16 AM, Joimiaroxeu said:

I seriously cannot stand Liz's boyfriend and hope she gets her eyes opened about what that guy is really about. His dick can't be that good.

Well, Boseman had a girlfriend who could have been his granddaughter, so why can't a woman have a younger lover? After all, Liz has a child already, so she isn't evidently look for a serious partner to share her life with but her lover can just be for pleasure.

But reminding her son, who she once brought to work, where is he now? Even Lucca mentioned her baby occassionally. 

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For all the reasons articulated so well above, this was the first episode in all 5 seasons that I actively disliked. If the sharkjumpingness of this episode had happened earlier in the run, I would have been out.

It's not even like this whole season has sucked. The first half, with the Kurt plot, was good. But ever since that storyline got resolved, it's been dumb and dumber. I'd even settle for "all this has been a Diane hallucination" as preferable to being asked to believe any of this was real, which would just be insulting.

Edited to add: The problem with Liz's boyfriend, IMO, is simply that the actor is not compelling. Somebody semi-charismatic in the role would start to interest me. But it's not him.

Edited by Milburn Stone
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Well, Boseman had a girlfriend who could have been his granddaughter, so why can't a woman have a younger lover?

Their age difference has not been apparent to me and even if it were, I'm generally not getting bothered about it unless the lover is clearly below the "half your age plus seven years" threshold. (IRL, Audra is only a year or two older than Wayne.)

This guy Liz is seeing now just seems like an utter sleazeball to me and I think he's using her. She doesn't seem to mind being used since he apparently is working with something exceptional in bed. But, I think that's largely because she's not fully aware of what's going on with him besides his boudoir skills. I'm hoping his true colors get revealed to her.

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On 8/20/2021 at 12:06 PM, txhorns79 said:

Yes, the moment he started handling criminal proceedings, it should have been game over.  There are Constitutional rights at issue, and this set up the Judge and his tv show, along with the police department for some very real lawsuits.

Exactly. The whole original premise was that all parties signed a contract to participate in the fake court. That obviously isn't happening anymore.

14 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Well, Boseman had a girlfriend who could have been his granddaughter, so why can't a woman have a younger lover? After all, Liz has a child already, so she isn't evidently look for a serious partner to share her life with but her lover can just be for pleasure.

Liz has a younger lover? 

8 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

For all the reasons articulated so well above, this was the first episode in all 5 seasons that I actively disliked. If the sharkjumpingness of this episode had happened earlier in the run, I would have been out.

It's not even like this whole season has sucked. The first half, with the Kurt plot, was good. But ever since that storyline got resolved, it's been dumb and dumber.

Agreed. The Kurt plot was very compelling. And I've liked all the office politics stuff. But this was just ridiculous. 

Also I know they like to do the fun criminal intrigue stuff on this show, but Rivi and company would not be hashing out their criminal plans in a law firm conference room like that so openly, it's just bizarre.

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9 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Their age difference has not been apparent to me and even if it were, I'm generally not getting bothered about it unless the lover is clearly below the "half your age plus seven years" threshold. (IRL, Audra is only a year or two older than Wayne.)

Boseman had so many wrinkles that to me he looked at least 70 years old, but maybe over 80.

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“What’s the temperature in Dubai and London?”

“Hot.”

“Rainy.”

lol Not exactly enlightening.

 

With Wackner’s court, they’re obviously trying to point out how the legal system in place isn’t working. Pointed out in this episode by the offenders being let go because of... time issues! I like the principle of Wackner’s court dealing with things the real courts can’t or won’t handle properly. But the question is, will it end up being (as we’re beginning to see) just as corrupt in the long run?

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6 hours ago, ferjy said:

“What’s the temperature in Dubai and London?”

“Hot.”

“Rainy.”

lol Not exactly enlightening.

 

I kind of identified, because those situations are awkward and they do seem to require a bit of small talk at the beginning which I'm not great at, but you'd think David Lee would be better at it by now. Or else make a point of dispensing with the small talk by opening with, "We know why we're here so let's get into it."

6 hours ago, ferjy said:

With Wackner’s court, they’re obviously trying to point out how the legal system in place isn’t working. Pointed out in this episode by the offenders being let go because of... time issues! I like the principle of Wackner’s court dealing with things the real courts can’t or won’t handle properly...

For all the ridiculousness of the "Wackner's Court" plot, the show is driving home that point about our broken system. Since the Wackner approach clearly isn't working either, one is left wondering whether the Kings are advocating for more real courtrooms, judges, and jail cells. I don't see any other logical endpoint to their line of thought. And I wouldn't necessarily call them wrong. (As long as justice is administered impartially.)

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23 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

I kind of identified, because those situations are awkward and they do seem to require a bit of small talk at the beginning which I'm not great at, but you'd think David Lee would be better at it by now.

Ha, good point about David Lee. Although my comment was referring to the responses from Dubai and London. It’s always hot in Dubai and always raining in London (well, not always, but for comedic  purposes...)

 

 

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On 8/20/2021 at 2:26 AM, bobbyjoe said:

It’s just dumb, frankly, and not at all what The Good Fight is best at doing. If anything, Alegra surprisingly making a convincing argument that they need to tell Dubai that they need more money and workers, not less— since that makes them look less weak— is the kind of storyline and turn that feels like more classic Good Wife/Good Fight.   The “character who seems like a weirdo incompetent at first but suddenly has flashes of brilliance and saves the day” is a recurring theme where they’ve often done best.  And I did laugh at the cats, silly as that was.  This felt like an Elsbeth kind of story, which are usually my favorites.

The cats made me laugh but I agree that Allegra's suggestions were quite valid and I'm surprised no one else pointed out how more cuts and changes would make clients feel iffy about continuing to work with the firm. They're unstable. 

On 8/25/2021 at 2:46 AM, Roseanna said:

Well, Boseman had a girlfriend who could have been his granddaughter, so why can't a woman have a younger lover? After all, Liz has a child already, so she isn't evidently look for a serious partner to share her life with but her lover can just be for pleasure.

But reminding her son, who she once brought to work, where is he now? Even Lucca mentioned her baby occassionally. 

The only woman I remember seeing Adrian with was the judge and she certainly didn't look young enough to be his granddaughter. Was there someone else? 

I don't think the guy Liz is dating is supposed to be a "younger lover." There may be a small age difference but when you're in your 40s/50s that isn't a big deal. I don't think the issue is with his age. They just don't seem to be a good match. And thought she is divorced and has a child, she could still be looking for a partner. It's not like single/divorced parents never remarry or have serious relationships. It happens all the time. 

Del wanted to meet her son so there has been mention of him. Lucca's son was part of the story quite a bit because her pregnancy was part of the show and she's the primary custodial parent - her son's father lives out of state and his mother was part of the show for a while as the child's caretaker. Liz is likely splitting custody more evenly with her ex and is with Del when her son is with his dad. Lots of single parents do that until they're ready to introduce their children to a new partner. 

On 8/27/2021 at 9:52 AM, ferjy said:

Ha, good point about David Lee. Although my comment was referring to the responses from Dubai and London. It’s always hot in Dubai and always raining in London (well, not always, but for comedic  purposes...)

Ha, David Lee has never had good people skills. That's part of what makes him so funny. He's been practicing law for eons and is still awkward. 

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TDS isn’t a thing. The man is that bad.  
I love Mandy patinkin, but I want to fast-forward through this.  I miss Lucca, and Adrian.  
I don’t like it when people “both sides” things, so I’m not keen on this new character.  
“peace and love” from the drug dealer who smashed a guy’s face in?

Edited by Anela
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On 8/22/2021 at 5:42 PM, stonehaven said:

The last couple of seasons have started out strong and then just meandered into silliness and serious lack of credibility.

I recovered from the wretched Michael Sheen episodes (mostly by deleting or FFing), only to be thrust into the fake court nonsense. So frustrating for a brilliant series to go sideways, twice.

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