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Season 23 Live Feeds Discussion

Lady Calypso

By Lady Calypso
in Past Seasons

statsgirl
Message added by statsgirl,

We understand that some hot button topics are coming up this season, such as with the Cookout. Reminder that it's ok to disagree but do NOT break our Be Civil rule. Keep your comments about the show, NOT about the people on this forum. If you can't disagree civilly and without talking about the posters, utilize the Ignore User function or scroll past their posts. And reminder that there is more to this season than the Cookout so if you feel like a conversation is going in circles, feel free to move on to something else. Going forward, unwillingness to adhere to these rules will result in warnings.

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Callaphera
Callaphera

Tiffany and Xavier, c3/4, around 9:50 PM BBT Tiffany: "I just hope that [clears her throat] I mean, I hope that we're doing the right thing but I don't know if we're playing the game right." Xa

Brian Cronin
Brian Cronin

They're simply not the same thing. Our entire society is built around systemic racism, to the point where no one in, say, the Brigade, actually thought of their group as being "White-only," because th

After7Only
After7Only

I’ve seen multiple excellent and nuanced posts explaining why the CO is not racist.   The only argument I’ve seen that they are racist is that the are all black.    Nothing else…no racist language use

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Nashville

Nashville

Just thinking out loud here; is there any CO member SB could name as a renom who would go home over Claire?  
I don’t really think so.  The only two I can think of who might even be remote possibilities would be Ky (who SB sure as hell ain’t putting OTB) or DerF.

So, no real chance of any significant game shakeup this week.  
Sigh.  Yawn.

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30 Helens

30 Helens

Deref is afraid he’s going to be this year’s David: Take the money, earn everyone’s scorn.

But they all say David did what he needed to do— he wasn’t going to win anyway and probably knew it, so why not get some cash while he had the chance.

They don’t come out and say that Deref is in the exact same position, but you know they’re thinking it.

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lilabennet

lilabennet

(edited)

Derex deserves to go.  He had a perfectly good shield in Christian and he got rid of him to make an unnecessary "big move" that painted an even bigger target on his own back.  He clearly has an inkling about the CO but didn't bother to point it out to SB before nominations even though doing so would obviously have saved his own ass.  (And saved the viewers from this boring ass season.  This is his worst sin and why I don't care if he goes.)  Are you trying to win or not, Derex?  I have no sympathy for players who don't help themselves.  Or actively sabotage themselves.

Edited by lilabennet
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30 Helens

30 Helens

Feeds operator heard my plea and switched to Azah and Deref. She’s showing her knees for the first time this Thursday! Mark your calendars!

Deref is plotting to get SB on the block next week. Sounds like he wants to do it in the way that irritates/ blindsides Ky the most. Deref is my new best friend.

Alyssa and X: Alyssa thinks Tiff is lying about how much money she has, because Tiff told her she played the first comp and got a zero. Zero? She asks. How do you get a zero? How is that even possible?? (Oh, it’s possible.)

Alyssa is gloating about Derex going on the block. Revenge for Christian!

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himela

himela

47 minutes ago, lilabennet said:

Derex deserves to go.  He had a perfectly good shield in Christian and he got rid of him to make an unnecessary "big move" that painted an even bigger target on his own back. 

Does it really matter? Either way the order of which the non black people leave doesn't matter. What matters is that we had the best cast in a while and politics entered the game and made it predictable and boring.

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30 Helens

30 Helens

Tiff and Hannah: Tiff is feeling sad about Derex. Claire is her girl, but Derex is probably her best friend in the house. He’s been targeted since day one, and he really wants to play. She loves Claire, but she wants to save Derex.

Hannah feels her pain. She would love to save him, too. But she’s not worried either way, because he can win the Battle Back.

They make a F2 pact. They each think they have a case for winning. They have also played similar games, so they have the best chance against each other.

They joke that Ky has multiple F2s. Hannah says he approached her with the pitch that they make a good pair because they have similar minds. Tiff laughs that he said the same to her. Neither wants to take him. 

Tiff says X wants to cut Ky at 6. So, they ask, how do we get rid of X? Hannah proposes: Win at 6, take out Big D. Let X win 5 and take out Ky. She says 4 is always a memory comp. They can win that and take out X. She says they can convince Azah to turn against X at that point because Girl Power.

Hannah thinks it’s important to eliminate Deref early because everyone else wants to take him. If he’s gone, that opens up room for her and Tiff.

Hannah thinks Tiff could win against Ky, but he’s so unpredictable and she doesn’t want to deal with him. She says he’s so egotistical he thinks he can win against anyone.

Strategy session over, and I am loving their plan. I hope it plays out exactly like they want. Which means F2 will probably be Deref and Ky.

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30 Helens

30 Helens

SB knows she doesn’t do good DRs. Once she gets in there, she shuts down and can’t call up the emotions that they want from her. So she understands why America hasn’t given her any money, because they probably haven’t seen much of her. But if she doesn’t get any this week, after winning HoH, she’s gonna be mad. Because she knows they’ve seen her now!

Claire agrees, and sympathizes with the lack of cash. “I hate America!” she yells. (Way to win them over, Claire.)

They reminisce about the days of Frenchie. SB tells Claire about the Butchers. Claire tells SB about the 3-headed snake. They are both amazed at what they missed. Neither understand his gameplay, or as Claire puts it, schemes upon schemes upon schemes. “I miss Frenchie”, SB says. “Good for you,” Claire says. 

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30 Helens

30 Helens

Tuned back in at nearly 4am BB time, and Ky is still up. He’s alone in the HaveNot room and addressing the camera. He’s having a bit of a crisis. The 6 he is with are not the people he wants to play with. Who he really wants to play with are “this new 4 plus Derek X”. He asks his family to send him telepathic messages to help him decide what to do. He says he’s fine staying committed to the 6, but…

The feeds switched abruptly to someone snoring, so I don’t know where this landed. And I have no idea who his new 4 are, but… is Ky about to blow up the Cookout?

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Brian Cronin

Brian Cronin

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4 hours ago, himela said:

Does it really matter? Either way the order of which the non black people leave doesn't matter. What matters is that we had the best cast in a while and politics entered the game and made it predictable and boring.

You can say 2+2=5 all you want, but it won't make it so. Similarly, acting like "politics" suddenly "entered the game" in Season 23 is certainly a position you can take. It's not supported by any facts, but it's a position you can take. 

"Politics" didn't "enter the game" in BB21 when the White-led dominant alliance got rid of every minority contestant right away before choosing amongst themselves for the winner.

"Politics" didn't "enter the game" in BB15 when the White-led dominant alliance got rid of all of the minority contestants before choosing amongst themselves for the winner.

"Politics" didn't "enter the game" in BB12 when the White-led dominant alliance got rid of all of the minority contestants before choosing amongst themselves for the winner.

But no, "politics entered the game" just now, this season, not ever before. Again, it's a position to take. 

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Melina22

Melina22

4 hours ago, himela said:

What matters is that we had the best cast in a while and politics entered the game and made it predictable and boring

Leaving everything race-related aside, it seems like virtually every season a dominant alliance emerges, and once it does, things do tend to become boring, the dreaded Pagonging scenario.

I guess people do it because it works, but it's not exciting. I can't see it changing, although I wish it would. It's too late to unring that bell, short of recruiting a cast who have never seen a single episode of BB. (Hey, that might be fun.) 

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Jess14

Jess14

I feel like BB needs to make the vote counts secret.  Just have Julie say, “the house has voted, and [houseguest], you are evicted from the BB house.” Sure, that still may not get rid of  the dominance of big alliances, but people wouldn’t have to be so worried about throwing a rogue vote/flipping, and then being easily exposed by the vote count.

While I agree that season has gotten boring because the Cookout (who I have no issue with otherwise) has become dominant, what’s crazy is that the other players have mostly taken out each other. It’s not like last season where the Committee had a stranglehold on the HOH. Here, Frenchie took out Travis (with Derek X’s help); Derek X took out Christian; Christian wasted his HOH on Whitney; SB looks like she’s about to take out Claire or Derek X… The rest of the house has done the Cookout’s bidding every step of the way.

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peachmangosteen

peachmangosteen

11 hours ago, Katesus7 said:

I’m trying to think of someone where in the finale, I’m on the edge of my seat saying “please, please let this person win”, and then they win.

The only times for me were Jordan and Dan and then I grew to absolutely hate them in their subsequent appearances. I really need to give up on this show.

11 hours ago, tinkerbell said:

Well, its likely that the Cookout gets to the final 6, but I think what happens after that is going to be interesting 

It never is though! In this case, the men will get rid of the women because a) they've had a F3 since like week 1 and b) the women are horrible at comps so the men will beat them. I at least hope Tuffany has a fun meltdown when she realizes she's gonna be the first CO to go.

9 hours ago, Lady Whistleup said:

Claire is crying. 

This week really drove home to her imo just how much she never had a chance. Which, I guess she can call all the previous Black players so they can commiserate on that feeling together.

I've given up on caring that Derex is going since I heard that he didn't play roulette. What a complete idiot. The fact that X snowed him so much is really embarrassing. I'll let him slide on believing Ky since they were close and Derex even saved Ky in week 1 but Derex and X have never been close and Derex has known X needs to go for weeks and he still let X convince him to not play roulette. Just stunningly naïve. 

In the end, Derex will 100% go because X will win the CO leader battle for sure, but I hope it really pisses Tiffany off at least lol.

I also wish they'd keep Derex in the dark the whole time so we could get a true blindside for once, but Tiffany would never let him go out like that. 

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Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

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The Cookout is pretty much like any other big alliance that we've seen; them dominating the game and making it boring is no different than any other dominant alliance we've seen in the past. We've had this happen, time and time again, where boot orders become predictable, for the most part. Besides a couple of surprise weeks where someone else goes, this type of alliance is nothing new.

However, what makes the Cookout slightly different is that: a) none of them have turned on each other yet, unlike other alliances where, by this point, one of their members have already been voted out; and b) they haven't won a lot of competitions and, thus, have relied on their social strategy to get what they want. CO have only won 3/7 HOHs and now 1 POV and they're still going strong. They're actually a very, very successful alliance, even if it's boring as shit to watch as a viewer. 

But this isn't new. The only new thing is that they're sticking together for a cause, rather than them liking each other. Though, again, as we've seen, alliances that have members who don't like each other tend to have already imploded. So it's impressive that CO have stuck together with half of its members at odds. 

But they're doing what they're doing to win the game. They're not doing it for entertainment value. And we may hate it as viewers, but...I have to respect the game they're playing, because it's working....at least for two of them. The others should have definitely turned on CO to ensure their win, because Tiffany/Hannah/Azah/DF are definitely NOT winning this game because they're making mistakes that are allowing X/Ky to get to the end together.

DF is being dragged to the end, sure, guaranteeing himself at LEAST third place, but he isn't winning this game. Even with him racking up BB Bucks, he's not getting votes to win at the end because he hasn't done a single thing in the game. Azah probably only wins against DF, at this point, but she hasn't been doing much either, AND she doesn't have the claim for BB Bucks like DF does.

Hannah is well positioned but only slightly ahead of Tiffany, and neither woman actually see that the men have a F3 and that they would NEED to win F6 HOH and not put up Azah in order to break that.

So, successful alliance that will accomplish its goal, but its winner is already pretty much set in stone unless comp wins change things. So the women in CO need to seriously step it up, or else Xavier wins this game. 

But CO is still one of the more successful alliances that we've seen. Regardless of the reason, they've still stuck together while other alliances have already voted out a member, and that's something to note. 

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peachmangosteen

peachmangosteen

I wish Claire had enough money to go for Coin of Destiny next week. But she'd have to be able to win a comp even if she did so there'd be no hope anyway lol.

The CO reminds me a lot of Level 6 so I'm hoping for a similar outcome and somehow the obvious winner does not win because then there's at least something unexpected at the end.

Jess14

Jess14

Was Cody called a racist for putting up David and Kevin? Perhaps it happened, but I don’t remember that being thrown around a lot. People didn’t like the Committee, but IIRC, most of the racist comments were directed at Memphis and Christmas and not all bc of who the nominated.

While there may be apprehension on the part of some houseguests about nominating 2 Cookout members, the notion that “the rest of the house can’t put up 2 black houseguests for social reasons” seems to be a way to avoid crediting the Cookout’s superior social game. We have 20 years of the show where houseguests had no problem nominating and evicting black houseguests when there where far fewer of them in the house! Outside of a few ppl, like Aryan (and I don’t remember if she even nominated any of the minorities during the season) who made explicitly racist comments, I haven’t heard of these houseguests being social pariahs once they leave.

Here, there’s a reason why the other HGs haven’t put up 2 cookout members, and part of it is that the Cookout have done an excellent job of cultivating side alliances and relationships. That was made easier by the group pairings to start out the show, but it’s not like the rest of the HOHs have knowingly putting up close friends to avoid putting up 2 black houseguests. 

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Melina22

Melina22

2 minutes ago, Jess14 said:

Here, there’s a reason why the other HGs haven’t put up 2 cookout members, and part of it is that the Cookout have done an excellent job of cultivating side alliances and relationships.

I wonder what would be the top few alliances who managed to stay hidden. I remember one a long time ago between Danielle and... a young guy. Nobody had a clue. But that was just two people. 

Has there ever before been such a large stealth alliance who got this far in the game? 

peachmangosteen

peachmangosteen

20 minutes ago, Jess14 said:

Outside of a few ppl, like Aryan (and I don’t remember if she even nominated any of the minorities during the season) who made explicitly racist comments, I haven’t heard of these houseguests being social pariahs once they leave.

Even Aaryn, who made many racist comments, isn’t a social pariah. She’s a fairly big youtuber now unfortunately.

Lady Calypso

Lady Calypso

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5 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

They’ve already had the wake up call. Very odd to wake them up at 8 am on Sunday. People are speculating that maybe there’s going to be some way to earn BB Bucks today.

That would make sense because, at the moment, I think only DF can afford the power for next week and if, by some miracle, DF wins HOH, then there'd be NOBODY playing for the power and then it's a waste of a twist so they probably want to get at least two people up to play for that Coin Toss.

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30 Helens

30 Helens

5 hours ago, Ellee said:

New 4 is Ky, SB, X and Alyssa with DX as the 5th according to JU. 
 

Of course he wants to ditch all the CO women. If I ever had a chance to fly a banner, now would be the time. 

1 hour ago, Melina22 said:

I wonder what would be the top few alliances who managed to stay hidden. I remember one a long time ago between Danielle and... a young guy. Nobody had a clue. But that was just two people. 

Has there ever before been such a large stealth alliance who got this far in the game? 

Danielle and Jason are the two you are thinking of. Season 3.

I was just about to say something similar, that I don’t think there’s been such a hidden alliance since that one. And this has 3x the people, so it’s that much harder to keep it secret! 

This is why I don’t find the CO boring at all. As currently structured, the game is always going to have a dominant alliance; there’s no way around it. But by staying so far under the radar, this alliance has created an environment where side gameplay can actually thrive. We know they’re doomed to fail, but the non-COs don’t know that. So for the most part they’re putting up a strong offense instead of just playing defense against the alliance, which is what tends to happen.  The CO strategy of side duos adds another element of interest to that, for me. It’s something we haven’t seen before, at least not to this extent.

This is also why I don’t think the non-COs are stupid for not catching on. Noticing that all evictees are white should not lead to the automatic realization that all black players are ganging up on you. Not unless you’re racist, which this group is clearly not. They have no real reason to think the alliance exists, because the secrecy has been so well maintained.

The only thing I don’t like about the CO is that 2 substandard players, Deref and Azah, are being allowed to coast with little to no effort on their parts. But in general, I find their strategy original and ingenious to the point of being almost diabolical, and I enjoy watching it unfold. 


 

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Jess14

Jess14

2 hours ago, Melina22 said:

I wonder what would be the top few alliances who managed to stay hidden. I remember one a long time ago between Danielle and... a young guy. Nobody had a clue. But that was just two people. 

Has there ever before been such a large stealth alliance who got this far in the game? 

They weren’t as big, but did the Brigade keep their alliance secret while making it to the end? I don’t remember much about that season honestly, but I remember Brittany being shocked and distraught when she was told that she would be evicted at the end. Otherwise, I can’t remember any.

I can’t remember any others. Usually someone flips and breaks up the big alliance or a big vote reveals it, like the big alliance was revealed back in S4 with the ex twist.

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himela

himela

4 hours ago, Brian Cronin said:

You can say 2+2=5 all you want, but it won't make it so. Similarly, acting like "politics" suddenly "entered the game" in Season 23 is certainly a position you can take. It's not supported by any facts, but it's a position you can take. 

Can you show me one alliance in the game through the years who consisted of only white people saying out loud "we make this alliance because we are all white and our goal is for a white person to win"?

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blixie

blixie

(edited)
Quote

at least for two of them. The others should have definitely turned on CO to ensure their win, because Tiffany/Hannah/Azah/DF are definitely NOT winning this game because they're making mistakes that are allowing X/Ky to get to the end together.

I don't agree they are making a mistake, at least with Tiffany, because Tiffany is very very aware of what this is costing her and Hannah and Azah and what it's doing to elevate X and Ky. Anyone paying attention can see how desperately Tiffany wants to turn on the CO with Ky a close second, now that his social game went to all hell. Tiffany has been dying for it, but she didn't want to actively blow it up, she needed a significant PUSH from the non-CO players figuring things out (which they seem to have on SOME LEVEL) and then for those players to DO something about it, but Claire and DereX are way too content to play passively, sit on the information, while they are systematically voted out to plan. I can't feel bad for either Claire or DereX, though DereX and SB , have been actively stupid in ways Claire hasn't. 

 

Quote

While there may be apprehension on the part of some houseguests about nominating 2 Cookout members

In week 3/4 with Brent/Whitney I might have understood the apprehension, but last week was pretty inexcusably bad game play from every non CO player, tho Alyssa is playing the best for her game given that she truly doesn't seem to get the existence of the CO at all.  SB HoH is total joke, she might as well have Ky's hand up her ass. 

I 100% agree that there is no can't because they'll be seen as racist argument, only that there might be on Derex/Claire's part enough understanding to honestly willful capitulate. But I think IF that were true she'd say it in camera talk, and she hasn't which means she has considered the CO possibility and dismissed it and or is just giving up? IDK man. But it's sad sad BB tv.  I can see DereX feelings for Hannah and his relative lack history with the show interfering with his ability to 100% agree the CO is real, because if it is Hannah is playing him ice cold and he for sure doesn't wanna think that about her or their flirtmance.

I hope that DereX doesn't get PoV and that the CO (aka X/Ky) wins as easily as it appears their going to  and nothing stands in their way. Do you hear me universe that's what I want. The last thing I want is DereX to win PoV and take Claire down. Lighting candles that *does not*. Please. NO one wants it NO ONE. WE all want complete uninterrupted CO dominance. 

Edited by blixie
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Callaphera

Callaphera

(edited)
13 minutes ago, Blissfool said:

As far as I remember, Level 6 managed to remain a secret. Although two were evicted prior to jury, two made it to jury and two made it to Final 2.

Level 6 never had to go public because FOUTTE/The Hive were so fucking bad, they took out their own alliance for Level 6. It really was like rooting for the Keystone Cops. Half of the season could have Yakkity Sax as the background music. You couldn't make it up if you tried.

I honestly believe that if L6 had sat them all down and been like "Dudes, we're an alliance", FOUTTE/The Hive still would have evicted their own. They were truly too dumb to live (it's kinda why I love them, in the same way that you "aww" at the puppy that keeps running into the wall beside the door).

Edited by Callaphera
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Blissfool

Blissfool

8 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Level 6 never had to go public because FOUTTE/The Hive were so fucking bad, they took out their own alliance for Level 6. It really was like rooting for the Keystone Cops. Half of the season could have Yakkity Sax as the background music. You couldn't make it up if you tried.

I honestly believe that if L6 had sat them all down and been like "Dudes, we're an alliance", FOUTTE/The Hive still would have evicted their own. They were truly too dumb to live (it's kinda why I love them, in the same way that you "aww" at the puppy that keeps running into the wall beside the door).

Very similar thing is happening right now. Non-Cos are taking out other non-COs.

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Charas Bangs

Charas Bangs

19 minutes ago, himela said:

Can you show me one alliance in the game through the years who consisted of only white people saying out loud "we make this alliance because we are all white and our goal is for a white person to win"?

They didn’t have to say what’s understood between themselves. This applies to every culture of people. You see an ally in people who share similarities with yourself. I never thought the “all white alliances” of all the merry seasons past were “racists because they were in all white alliances”. I did however identify the racist individuals based on their character and the things they said and did themselves. No one admits to being a “racist”. But their have clearly been previous HGs with prejudices and judgments who were disgusting to watch.

The CO saying it “out loud” is no different then the ALL the other previous alliances not saying it out loud. They are making history WHILE being decent and awesome people (can’t say the same about some of the previous groups of people).

It also proves a point: given the opportunity to align with and/or form a dominate alliance “black HGs” would dominate and win this game just like white hgs have in the past. I feel this way about ANY culture of people and Im looking forward to MORE diversity on BB in the future. This will hopefully require production to strategize and innovate this damn game. We can’t go backwards now lol.

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Michichick

Michichick

30 minutes ago, blixie said:


I hope that DereX doesn't get PoV and that the CO (aka X/Ky) wins as easily as it appears their going to  and nothing stands in their way. Do you hear me universe that's what I want. The last thing I want is DereX to win PoV and take Claire down. Lighting candles that *does not*. Please. NO one wants it NO ONE. WE all want complete uninterrupted CO dominance. 

POV was played yesterday. Derex wasn’t chosen to compete. Xavier won.

peachmangosteen

peachmangosteen

33 minutes ago, blixie said:

I hope that DereX doesn't get PoV and that the CO (aka X/Ky) wins as easily as it appears their going to  and nothing stands in their way. Do you hear me universe that's what I want. The last thing I want is DereX to win PoV and take Claire down. Lighting candles that *does not*. Please. NO one wants it NO ONE. WE all want complete uninterrupted CO dominance. 

POV was yesterday and Derex didn’t even play lol.

This season is reminding so much of BB20 except that I like CO (for the most part) and hated Level 6. 

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statsgirl
Message added by statsgirl,

We understand that some hot button topics are coming up this season, such as with the Cookout. Reminder that it's ok to disagree but do NOT break our Be Civil rule. Keep your comments about the show, NOT about the people on this forum. If you can't disagree civilly and without talking about the posters, utilize the Ignore User function or scroll past their posts. And reminder that there is more to this season than the Cookout so if you feel like a conversation is going in circles, feel free to move on to something else. Going forward, unwillingness to adhere to these rules will result in warnings.

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