S06.E21: Reunion Part 1

[LotusFlower]

Given her behavior I am not at all convinced that she purchased anything, including any real property, on her own instead of being supported in a big way by a husband..

Of course not. Financially, she had nothing until she married Morgan. Watching her on the show, she does nothing but play the sex kitten and drool over young men. She doesn't use the show to promote any projects or businesses, like every other HW does, because she doesn't have any. All she has left to her name is the crumbling townhouse, and soon she'll lose that, too. She spends her Bravo paycheck on facials, laxatives, and paid assistants she calls interns. Her latest blog is all over the place talking about how successful and busy she is. It's maybe more delusional than all her past blogs put together. It's even kind of sad.

[Midnight Cheese]

I think maybe!   She is also 'the straw that stirs the drink.'  I mean, that's awesome, but hard to put on a resume.

[ryebread]

Man that annoyed me too. It's such a humble brag pat on the back. I mean really? You couldn't come up with one sincere thing? Not even one? You're just super good at everything? My go to is always spelling. I'm a lousy speller. It's no secret that spell check is my best friend. But not for Heather, she wins national spelling bees! What's your biggest flaw, Heather? I can be too awesome.

She should have said spelling.  Her spelling is terrible. The first 2 paragraphs of her blog this week are teetering on unintelligible.  She makes sense in the 3rd paragraph when she's talking about Aviva.  She writes a lot about Aviva so she should be well versed on that.  Then she goes right back to....whatever it is she was trying to do there.  To borrow from her bestie, Carole, "It's just weird."

ETA:  http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-6/blogs/heather-thomson/heather-et-tu-ramona-singer?page=0,0

 

Sonja Bone Ya.  I believe you were more than just a hostess at a restaurant. 

Edited August 1, 2014 by ryebread

[Rhetorica]

Snip

So there's a really wacky rumor going around now that everyone is gonna get the boot except for Sonja. And get this -- the producers are gonna depend on Sonja to cast for others. Could it be true? Who knows? But clearly, there may be others with Sonja love.

http://www.christiantoday.com/article/real.housewives.of.new.york.city.season.7.cast.sonja.morgan.the.new.casting.director/39173.htm

I find the rumor less wacky than the site: Christian Today Entertainment? Why are the Million Moms not lambasting this show? 

[zoeysmom]

I do know the facts of the fraud case and would have to disagree with the word "con artist".  To be a con artist generally you are relieving someone of their money.  Sonja received nothing from the parties nor was she seeking any money from the plaintiffs.  What Sonja did was bad-you don't promise money you don't have, she did what many might do and tried to weasel her way out of it by calling in favors that fell flat.  In short Sonja is not big time Morgan name or not.  No one was buying her ditzy routine.  No one wants to rely and subject themselves to a breach of contract suit detrimentally relying on one who is full of hot air.  I read the story and keep in mind it was written by the plaintiffs' attorneys.  She made fraudulent representations and was found in breach and she needs to pay.  She has mentioned several times she has to pay the judgment. I do know she mentioned it after all the appeals were exhausted and it became very real and I chalked that up to on advice of counsel . 

 

I am not in love with Sonja-I just feel she gives people something to talk about.  I don't think she has changed one bit since she came on the show-other than now her past contract fraud dispute reached the end of the appellate  process.  I remember her line about being the "straw that stirs the drink".  The nastiest I saw Sonja was at the Gay Pride event when she bumped Alex and Simon from the event when they had been scheduled to speak before she was ever involved and she gave a really shitty nonsensical speech.  There are many things I don't want to see Sonja ever do again and at the top of list is Burlesque, show her butt while playing softball with the firemen,  ever explain another business idea or let me in on her menstrual issues or pooping issues.  Her interns don't bother me because I think they are getting exposure with the crew and cast and they do it voluntarily.  It would not surprise to find out Carole, Heather, Ramona probably have interns and we just never see them. 

 

I always wonder who they will keep and who they will toss and I think Sonja is pretty safe.  I do not believe for one minute Sonja has anything to do with casting nor do I think they will ever base the show around her because her personality is not that strong.

[Chicklet]

Ok late to this particular Aveeva party but if she had only 30% of her lung function as she claimed (was it volume or function?) she'd be in a hospital on oxygen AT THE LEAST, if not a ventilator. And not talking. Or walking, or throwing shit. Or complaining. I'm all for Veevs not talking anymore.

And that "xray" looked like a cat scan of a chest and she's crazy for not knowing the difference if it was her film.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Chicklet

[copacabana]

You know, I really wish Lady M would just break down and write that tell all.  It would be SO good.  Manhattan and La Pietro in the 80s, which sounds for her like it was a combo of The World of Suzie Wong and the court of the Tudors.  She could hire a ghost writer and dictate a book that I would totally buy and I've resisted buying ANY hauswives book of any kind.  Sonja should look to the example of Yolanda from BH who parlayed her youthful whatevers into two successful stints as a courtesan.  And I don't doubt that YoYou loved both her guys because even courtesans fall in love and give it a go.  Or look to Zsa Zsa Gabor and the Gabor Mama and sisters who were famous Hungarian courtesans.  It's sad because Sonja is so of that genre and just hasn't been able to really capitalize on it long term.  Maybe because she blew her wad too soon and too fast and went for the big time Morgan thing.  Although I don't doubt that old man Morgan probably packed an interesting punch. I've never gotten the sense from her that she didn't care for him, truly, screwing around on the side or not -- And she's still a dynamite looking woman. 

 

Just to say too that in talking about all these women and their various hypocrisies I always get to the point where I run smack dab into my own.  Whom am I kidding?  Notice the whom, HWs.  I LOVE these shows -- They are my total shameless guilty pleasures and I've learned tons about myself that I wouldn't otherwise by wasting days, weeks, months, and years of my life on this crap -- And the best part, without a doubt, has been reading other people's comments.  And learning from what other people have to say.  Much much cheaper than therapy and tons and tons more instructive and fun. 

 

That said, I'd love to see Andy and Ramona go after each other with baseball bats. 

 

So yeah I'd love to see all of the harpies reasonably happy or happy enough -- as most of us online probably are -- hope ... Content at least, feed, sheltered, doing things that are interesting -- don't need to be anything spectacular -- raising the children and grandchildren, or living lives that have nothing to do with that (honestly, hurrah!, really), being lucky enough to have the occasional vacation, etc etc. 

 

edited because San Pietro is not La Pietro and because I'm trying my first hand at Bourbon Chicken for teenage boys and had to sample. 

Edited August 1, 2014 by copacabana

[heebiejeebie]

 

Man that annoyed me too. It's such a humble brag pat on the back. I mean really? You couldn't come up with one sincere thing? Not even one? You're just super good at everything? My go to is always spelling. I'm a lousy speller. It's no secret that spell check is my best friend. But not for Heather, she wins national spelling bees! What's your biggest flaw, Heather? I can be too awesome.

 

 

This is why you need someone with a sharp tongue who is smart and unafraid of jabbing the show itself as host.  Because the natural response to Heather's idiotic posturing would have been a deadpanned "and yet here you are....on this show" followed by a complete body turn to the other side in dismissal. 

 

I always thought Heather came on tis show incredibly hungry and desperate despite the awareness and the seeming success in life.  She jumped in to play the reindeer games with an arrogant and yet oblivious Ramona with the whole London thing.  And both she and Carole I thought were shifty cowards following the St. Barth's trip in trying to mitigate Aviva's heinous behavior (to the point that while I loathe Aviva and find everything she does basically wrong, to have her try to attack Heather and Carole both has me at the least having a case of the church giggles -- if only because Carole is a horribly bad writer of fiction and should be pilloried for that crap she put out even for the weak subgenre it sits in).

 

Now I think Heather takes her season debut as a raving success and sees herself as the person the show presents.  Which has been the failing of pretty much most of the H-wives on every franchise.  But particularly in this one imo (Zarin, Frankel, Countless Lou-Lou, Ramona, Sonja -- I'd include Kelly but she was so self-delusional as to her accomplishments and talents/skills the day she stepped on the show).

[qtpye]

Sonja should look to the example of Yolanda from BH who parlayed her youthful whatevers into two successful stints as a courtesan.  And I don't doubt that YoYou loved both her guys because even courtesans fall in love and give it a go. 

 

 

I think Sonya's lifeline is that she birthed a Morgan.  This will forever tie her to American royalty.  Even though she will probably lose the parking garage town house, I think her ex will step in before she is totally ruined.  He will probably put her up in a measly million dollar apartment in Manhattan.  She will no longer be living the lavish life style of her peak years with the old man, but she will be comfortable by regular people standards.

 

I think she sincerely believes this and uses the new age positive thinking tropes to will this to come about. I guess time will tell if she is correct.

[copacabana]

heebiejeebie:  For the win from start to finish.  Awesome and a prime example of why the writing about the show will always surpass the show itself.  

 

Totally on board with the calling out of Carole as a writer of any kind of fiction beyond the beach vacation variety.  Her memoir I don't know -- I will give her the benefit of the doubt on that and think it was beyond the pale of AD to try to shame and humiliate her on that score. 

[ryebread]

Just to say too that in talking about all these women and their various hypocrisies I always get to the point where I run smack dab into my own.  Whom am I kidding?  Notice the whom, HWs.  I LOVE these shows -- They are my total shameless guilty pleasures and I've learned tons about myself that I wouldn't otherwise by wasting days, weeks, months, and years of my life on this crap -- And the best part, without a doubt, has been reading other people's comments.  And learning from what other people have to say.  Much much cheaper than therapy and tons and tons more instructive and fun. 

Yes.

 

 

This is why you need someone with a sharp tongue who is smart and unafraid of jabbing the show itself as host.  Because the natural response to Heather's idiotic posturing would have been a deadpanned "and yet here you are....on this show" followed by a complete body turn to the other side in dismissal. 

 

I always thought Heather came on tis show incredibly hungry and desperate despite the awareness and the seeming success in life.  She jumped in to play the reindeer games with an arrogant and yet oblivious Ramona with the whole London thing.  And both she and Carole I thought were shifty cowards following the St. Barth's trip in trying to mitigate Aviva's heinous behavior (to the point that while I loathe Aviva and find everything she does basically wrong, to have her try to attack Heather and Carole both has me at the least having a case of the church giggles -- if only because Carole is a horribly bad writer of fiction and should be pilloried for that crap she put out even for the weak subgenre it sits in).

 

Now I think Heather takes her season debut as a raving success and sees herself as the person the show presents.  Which has been the failing of pretty much most of the H-wives on every franchise.  But particularly in this one imo (Zarin, Frankel, Countless Lou-Lou, Ramona, Sonja -- I'd include Kelly but she was so self-delusional as to her accomplishments and talents/skills the day she stepped on the show).

And yes.

[LotusFlower]

This is why you need someone with a sharp tongue who is smart and unafraid of jabbing the show itself as host.  Because the natural response to Heather's idiotic posturing would have been a deadpanned "and yet here you are....on this show" followed by a complete body turn to the other side in dismissal.

What does being on the show have to do with something she's not good at? Or her semi-joking answer of not ever backing down?

[comatoast]

This is why you need someone with a sharp tongue who is smart and unafraid of jabbing the show itself as host.  Because the natural response to Heather's idiotic posturing would have been a deadpanned "and yet here you are....on this show" followed by a complete body turn to the other side in dismissal. 

In my fantasy casting of season 7, Bethenny comes back. I would LOVE to see Heather and Beth interacting.

[jelliebean]

heebiejeebie:  For the win from start to finish.  Awesome and a prime example of why the writing about the show will always surpass the show itself.  

 

Totally on board with the calling out of Carole as a writer of any kind of fiction beyond the beach vacation variety.  Her memoir I don't know -- I will give her the benefit of the doubt on that and think it was beyond the pale of AD to try to shame and humiliate her on that score. 

Carole has won three Emmys and a Peabody. Her career as a journalist was not about writing "essays" as AD asserted. Not only did Aviva try to downplay Carole's career she also attacked Carole's relationship with her in-laws, Carole's age and Carole's memoir. Carole never wrote fiction before "A Widow's Guide" but it was picked up by movie producers for a tv show. Not bad for a first timer in that field. 

[jelliebean]

The lamest moment is Ramona claiming having no intent to hit Kristen with the "plastic wine shaped glass". Ramona threw it at Kristen's face. She didn't throw it in the water...she threw it at Kristen's face! I just want to know what she paid for that "blow dry" and why she couldn't just take a shower and "re-blow" her hair.  

[MatildaMoody]

And then she tried to hit Kristen with an oar! Why wasn't that addressed?

[heebiejeebie]

 

Carole has won three Emmys and a Peabody. Her career as a journalist was not about writing "essays" as AD asserted. Not only did Aviva try to downplay Carole's career she also attacked Carole's relationship with her in-laws, Carole's age and Carole's memoir. Carole never wrote fiction before "A Widow's Guide" but it was picked up by movie producers for a tv show. Not bad for a first timer in that field.

 

 

People keep throwing Peabodys out as if it guarantees Carole some sort of factual level of competence for all time.  It does not.  Has anyone gone through and seen what and who has won a Peabody?  I have.  I know.  My mother won one for her work with PBS. She and thirteen other people.  The show would most likely have won without my mother's input.  but she did provide it   Its nice.  It didn't make her perfect no matter how much I still love her.  It doesn't give Carole imo this teflon defense any time someone points out the fact that Carole currently sits in all her vapid glory on a trashy reality show.  For her second season. 

 

I have never understood why people think some kind of peer review is accorded this grand level of status.  I wonder how many who lap up Carole's cv give the same amount of laudatory excuses to Geraldo Rivera vis-a-vis his latest comments on women having youth as their main attribute for marriage?  You know a peabody award winner who also has had books optioned.

 

And it is funny that the book was optioned before it was really even written if you go by Carole's chronology on the show.  But then maybe that explains why I had two galleys from Henry Holt, The printed arc for the September release that never happened (the re vamped almost groveling promotional material was a good laugh -- funnier than anything int he book) and the egalley for the later eventual release.

 

Accomplishments might single people out in a category that makes them part of a "select" group.  It is not and never has been in my eyes a determination of one's character or the ability to not show your ass.  What's more I don't think Carole is better than I am or anyone else solely based on her cv.  And never will even if she hauls her flat wrinkled ass off the show and goes off and wins a Nobel Prize for Literature.  Sciences or the Peace Prize I might eat my words. 

 

Point is unless you are arguing the metric that Carole's accomplishments in your eyes make her totally flaw free, as a metric it simply does not work as some kind of argument that I shouldn't find Carole less than magnificent.  Movies get made out bad books all the time.  Blockbuster movies.  Heck really bad books make up some of the bestselling novels.  Some made into hugely successful novels.  Again ad populum is not really a metric with which to measure quality.  In a thing.  Let alone the person that created or helped create it. 

 

Carole had plenty of times to either walk away or rise above it.  Somewhat how I consider this Golden Aura'd Peabody Winner of an Optioned Book would do as heavenly choirs sing. She never did.  In fact several times she came away from her fights with Aviva looking like a damn fool.  A pathetic sad damn fool.  From Aviva.  From the woman I have come to believe wears a leg that is the incarnation of Eva Braun.  And fights like an idiot. 

 

And while I enjoy one person digging at another it does not and never on my part means I'm taking sides.  So I don't argue that Aviva is often wrong and a vicious fool in her attacks on Carole.  I do think Carole on the show, as Carole, Peabody winner and all that rosy goodness she is supposed to represent, is a famewhoring desperate fool who is way too invested in a show that her cv should allow.  Maybe it is some kind of mid life crises that has her on this show spreading the thighs of her life for a close up. 

 

You can admire Carole for all the hings you think she has accomplished.  But again they are not a metric that somehow trumps my own opinion on one famewhore of seven who all act like raving attention desperate addicts who are worth laughing at and nothing more.  In my opinion.

[zoeysmom]

Man that annoyed me too. It's such a humble brag pat on the back. I mean really? You couldn't come up with one sincere thing? Not even one? You're just super good at everything? My go to is always spelling. I'm a lousy speller. It's no secret that spell check is my best friend. But not for Heather, she wins national spelling bees! What's your biggest flaw, Heather? I can be too awesome.

I think Heather is big on the don't back down because she is not doing so well in her lawsuit against Spanx.  She has lost a few rounds.  As a matter of fact all she has won is getting the case transferred to NY from Atlanta.  Her posturing is that she is full stem ahead towards Sara Blakely and Spanx.  Heather tried a #shame on Spanx campaign that failed and vows to go after the much bigger Spanx for patent infringement.  Heather wanted to make it a big part of her storyline this year but as always, lawsuit-especially ones that ones that won't finish in a season make for boring viewing.  So I get her boastfulness and self-confidence she has put herself in a place where she could literally lose it all.

 

As far as Heather's branding--I wonder.  First off I think the name sounds like food not clothing.  Second Heather likes to post pictures on her Twitter account of people showing their recently purchased Yummie Tummie-thankfully they aren't modeling it.  I guess that is cute to have the COO/CEO retweeting the pictures-but I had to laugh at the photo of the one with a Marshall's tag on it.  When Marshall or TJMax buy stuff if is either overstock, as in didn't sell or defective or out of season (I question how underwear goes out of season).  I also had to agree with Sonja on her rejection of the half naked guy on the toaster oven box-what does it have to do with Sonja or a toaster oven?  So I would say Heather's branding is so-so. 

[copacabana]

Carole had accomplished a good bit as a tv journalist and correspondent.  And her memoir Whatever Remains is a significant piece or work. For Aviva to have tried to take that away from her for any reason just shows us what a desperate and stupid creature Aviva is. 

 

The Widow's Guide I would guess is a fun beach read. If it were ghost written no one needs to lose any sleep over it  Saying that What Remains was is just straight up nastiness. 

 

Nadine Gordimer died a few weeks ago -- That's a real writer of fiction on a scale that trumps Bravo BS.  One of the real problems for Carole as a writer looking to be taken seriously is that she traded her name in for this reality show.  And she was never ever in a million years on that level to begin with.

 

That doesn't take away from her initial memoir and it may not take away from whatever she may decide to do from here on out should she decide to keep on writing but Widow's Guide has been tarnished forever.  Not only because of the stupid and exploitive title but because the book is tied to this show.  And because having read it one can say it's just no good.  Doesn't mean Carole is without talent but literature is never going to be her bag.  Aviva being the see you next Tues that she is knew that and opted to just keep slinging it.  And Andy Cohen, because he's his own special version of bitch opted to keep it coming.  Cohen has zero respect for women and certainly no regard for American letters or culture.  Straight up whore. 

[jelliebean]

People keep throwing Peabodys out as if it guarantees Carole some sort of factual level of competence for all time.  It does not.  Has anyone gone through and seen what and who has won a Peabody?  I have.  I know.  My mother won one for her work with PBS. She and thirteen other people.  The show would most likely have won without my mother's input.  but she did provide it   Its nice.  It didn't make her perfect no matter how much I still love her.  It doesn't give Carole imo this teflon defense any time someone points out the fact that Carole currently sits in all her vapid glory on a trashy reality show.  For her second season. 

 

I have never understood why people think some kind of peer review is accorded this grand level of status.  I wonder how many who lap up Carole's cv give the same amount of laudatory excuses to Geraldo Rivera vis-a-vis his latest comments on women having youth as their main attribute for marriage?  You know a peabody award winner who also has had books optioned.

 

And it is funny that the book was optioned before it was really even written if you go by Carole's chronology on the show.  But then maybe that explains why I had two galleys from Henry Holt, The printed arc for the September release that never happened (the re vamped almost groveling promotional material was a good laugh -- funnier than anything int he book) and the egalley for the later eventual release.

 

Accomplishments might single people out in a category that makes them part of a "select" group.  It is not and never has been in my eyes a determination of one's character or the ability to not show your ass.  What's more I don't think Carole is better than I am or anyone else solely based on her cv.  And never will even if she hauls her flat wrinkled ass off the show and goes off and wins a Nobel Prize for Literature.  Sciences or the Peace Prize I might eat my words. 

 

Point is unless you are arguing the metric that Carole's accomplishments in your eyes make her totally flaw free, as a metric it simply does not work as some kind of argument that I shouldn't find Carole less than magnificent.  Movies get made out bad books all the time.  Blockbuster movies.  Heck really bad books make up some of the bestselling novels.  Some made into hugely successful novels.  Again ad populum is not really a metric with which to measure quality.  In a thing.  Let alone the person that created or helped create it. 

 

Carole had plenty of times to either walk away or rise above it.  Somewhat how I consider this Golden Aura'd Peabody Winner of an Optioned Book would do as heavenly choirs sing. She never did.  In fact several times she came away from her fights with Aviva looking like a damn fool.  A pathetic sad damn fool.  From Aviva.  From the woman I have come to believe wears a leg that is the incarnation of Eva Braun.  And fights like an idiot. 

 

And while I enjoy one person digging at another it does not and never on my part means I'm taking sides.  So I don't argue that Aviva is often wrong and a vicious fool in her attacks on Carole.  I do think Carole on the show, as Carole, Peabody winner and all that rosy goodness she is supposed to represent, is a famewhoring desperate fool who is way too invested in a show that her cv should allow.  Maybe it is some kind of mid life crises that has her on this show spreading the thighs of her life for a close up. 

 

You can admire Carole for all the hings you think she has accomplished.  But again they are not a metric that somehow trumps my own opinion on one famewhore of seven who all act like raving attention desperate addicts who are worth laughing at and nothing more.  In my opinion.

I don't know how to reply to this. Congrats to your mom. I was under the impression that getting recognized for one's achievements in any field was something to be proud of and merits some respect. You obviously disagree. Sorry I pissed you off. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

And Andy Cohen, because he's his own special version of bitch opted to keep it coming.  Cohen has zero respect for women and certainly no regard for American letters or culture.  Straight up whore.

 

My hunch is, it's he who's the actual mastermind behind Aviva's vicious poking at Carole.  It's extremely cruel.  But it says everything about who Andy Cohen really is.  I know, I know, Carole put herself up for this, but it's still exceptionally cruel nevertheless.  Why Aviva wants to take on this evil personality & showcase it on national TV is anyone's guess.  The woman is absolutely painful for me to watch.  

 

I'm convinced Aviva's storyline of attacking Carole could not have been fabricated by her.  She's too fuckin' dumb.  Despite her education, she's barely a step above Gretchen or Kells.  She's displayed no impressive intelligence at all.  She's not especially articulate.  And she constantly gets law related issues wrong.  WTF?

 

Well, Carole did seem to think she could stay outta the drama.  Hee!  Wasn't it delusional of her to think that in the first place?  Andy Cohen is nobody's friend.  I've no doubt he was always out to make a fool of her & tear her down.  He just schemed & waited a bit to do it.  And Veevs was more than happy to make a Satan's pact with him & give herself a storyline this season.  But of course, when you make a deal with Satan there are no guarantees, as Veevs is gonna find out when she gets the boot, in spite of following AC's orders.  No winners here.  Not even Satan, er, I mean Andy Cohen, cuz the show's ratings still stink.

Edited August 2, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[swimmingwithsnarks]

Anyone remember last year when Reid called the women "overweight old ladies gone wild"? 

I had forgotten Reid had said that and find it almost impossible to imagine. In my mind he seems to have had any personality surgically removed at birth. He is such a nebbish! He gazes adoringly at his ghoul of a wife, but I get the feeling he is wildly pussy-whipped. (Can I say that here?) He'd be afraid to risk the humorless ghoul's venom being directed at him. I wonder what he thinks of his classy FIL. Nah, I know what he thinks, but he could never risk telling Veevie what a horror George is. She'd beat him over the head with her $30,000 leg. 

[lunastartron]

While it's wonderful that Carole won a Peabody, I think a good analogy vis-à-vis the significance of awards as a general marker of success might be Gwyneth Paltrow. She's an Oscar-laureled actress, but, from my perspective, that doesn't define her career or elevate her subsequent performances to a level at which they're beyond reproach. Nor does it really influence the impression the commentariat at large seems to have developed regarding her "real" public persona as far as GOOP and the out-of-touch, pretentious lifestyle advice goes. To consider another example, Sandra Bullock won the Academy Award and a Razzie in the same year, and Halle Berry followed up her Best Actress win with fare like Catwoman.

 

Carole earned accolades as a journalist; good for her. But creatives can produce work of wildly inconsistent variety and/or find themselves virtuosi in one medium and terrible in very similar fields (ergo, why screenwriters don't necessarily increase their income by first writing a novel for which they can sell the rights).

Terrible novels get optioned for films and television all the time; in my opinion, Widow's Guide, like The Devil Wears Prada or Twilight, was possessed of a potentially interesting premise and plot but executed really sloppily.

 

Even though Aviva's campaign to undercut Carole's professional legitimacy was creepy and egregious even in the context of the Housewives franchise, I can't get myself too worked up about. Carole came on the show of her own volition, trusted Andy (as crazy/idiotic a leap of faith If there ever was one), and peddled her "craft" as one of her main narratives. If I didn't find What Remains somewhat overrated and Carole herself insufferable and inconsistent with respect to her take on writing in general (apparently likening the process to authoring "long e-mails" is so insulting, despite the fact that WR originated as monologues Carole spoke into a tape recorder), I would probably be more horrified.

[Persnickety1]

Late to the party (damn work interfering with my forum activity), but weighing on the Sonja modeling/investment story.

 

When Sonja first joined this cast, I remember a lot of random articles popped up about her in various publications.  A lot of those articles had comments on them, and some of those comments were from people who had actually known Sonja from her high school days.

 

Since I can't remember precisely what words were used, I'll just convey that the comments weren't particularly favorable.  Most of them implied Sonja had been a bit..."busy" in high school, that her family had nowhere near the money she was trying to portray them as having, and, well, pretty much that she was a bitch even back then.

 

Now, I bring this up because it would seem to me in all of these comments from people who actually knew Sonja, at some point someone should have commented about what a whiz-kid Sonja was back in the day, right?  Modeling and investing in properties starting at the age of 14?  Well, those would be some pretty lofty accomplishments at any age, much less a high school kid.  And judging from those comments, Sonja was not a wallflower, she surely would have made sure anyone within 10 miles of that high school campus would have known about her grand lifestyle and burgeoning career as Ye Grand Property Flipper.

 

She's been intimating on her FB/Twitter/Instagram that she was even modeling in Milan (she actually was hash tagging #milan #model etc in association with that old bathing suit shot...which she coincidentally started posting after the reunion aired and Luann or one of the women said, "I never knew you modeled").  

 

And she's putting up the same picture that they used at the reunion.  Just that one picture, as far as I've noticed.  Maybe she thought paying for modeling portfolio shots was tantamount to actually being a paid model?

 

I dunno.  I can't really tell if the woman is delusional or just rewriting a convenient history and hoping we'll all believe it.  As for her "lifestyle consultant" or whatever the fuck she was blathering about, the last I read, she was terminated from her "connector" position because the position she was connecting was her snatch to a number of golden penises and wealthy wives were demanding she be fired.  

 

Okay, I think I put way too much thought into this but surely a 14-year-old model making enough money to begin investing in real estate would get even a passing notice in high school, right?  Her whole story is just utter and complete bullshit to me.  

Edited August 2, 2014 by Persnickety1

[ScoobieDoobs]

I'd like to know how she got old man Morgan to marry her.  If he hadn't married her, what would have become of Sonja?  Failed restaurant hostess to what?  Prostitute?

 

If I didn't find What Remains somewhat overrated and Carole herself insufferable and inconsistent with respect to her take on writing in general (apparently likening the process to authoring "long e-mails" is so insulting, despite the fact that WR originated as monologues Carole spoke into a tape recorder), I would probably be more horrified.

What has surprised me is how lame Carole is fighting back, from Aviva's poking at her.  Lots of name calling & constantly calling her pathetic or a bitch.  Not very effective, eh?  She's a bit better on her Bravo blogs when she has lots of time to think it out -- or maybe she has help from a . . . ghostwriter?  But on the show, she's mostly sucky.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Watching the reunion has got me to thinking bout what's gonna happen next season.  I'm sure Satan, I mean Andy Cohen, has already started strategizing.  Is seating an indicator of anything?  Not sure if it has do with anything, but Lu & Veevs are sitting on the ends & I think they're the ones who are gonna get the boot.  And the rest will be back, leaving room for 2 newbies.  Satan will probably make sure Carole is poked at by someone else.  Maybe he'll work on busting up the friendships somehow (Sonja/Ramona & Carole/Heather).

[ryebread]

I guess it's a threshold thing for me. "Shut up" is the threshold between "stop" and "enough" and me cursing and either feeling horribly angry or depressed. It's not something I toss out casually unless I'm joking but if someone is pushing me,  it's something I'll say before I hit my breaking point. It's not something I would toss out casually in a formal setting but for me, I hope it's something sharp enough to bring the person aggravating me back to reality without offending them.

I'm with ya, aradia. I might say, "Enough already" but If I move on to "Shut Up" I'd have to be really angry and slightly out of control of my vocabulary at that point. 

We moved to our current house when Lil Ryebread was 6.  He'd been playing with our new neighbor's kids all day and at dinner we asked him how he liked them.  "Well, they're nice but they use bad words." 

"Oh?  What did they say?"  

He looked down and got red, "I can't say it." 

"Go ahead, honey.  You can tell us." 

Very quietly, still looking down, "They say the 'S-H' word." 

(I'm thinking "shit", right?)

Nope. It was 'Shut up.'  LOL.  That's m'boy.  It may be generational to think telling someone to 'shut up' is rude, but yeah, I'm old.  I was proud of him.  Now ask me my reaction when about a year later after playing with the same kids he came home to ask:  "Mom, what's the difference between fucking and humping?"  Oy.

[ryebread]

Watching the reunion has got me to thinking bout what's gonna happen next season.  I'm sure Satan, I mean Andy Cohen, has already started strategizing.  Is seating an indicator of anything?  Not sure if it has do with anything, but Lu & Veevs are sitting on the ends & I think they're the ones who are gonna get the boot.  And the rest will be back, leaving room for 2 newbies.  Satan will probably make sure Carole is poked at by someone else.  Maybe he'll work on busting up the friendships somehow (Sonja/Ramona & Carole/Heather).

With none of them having much of a storyline anymore, I've thought the same.  I think we'll see a Kristen/Luanne vs. Heather/Carole dust up. 

 

Heather has already shown she doesn't have loads of tolerance for Kristen.  She's also been friends with Josh for 20 years.  Josh is the kind of peckerhead that would reveal private things about his wife to a friend of 20 years over drinks. That were summoned by their mutual acquaintance to Puffy.

 

 If Kristen's storyline is her marriage (again) and it continues to unravel, sides will be taken.  Anybody think Heather won't take Josh's side is this should happen?

 

I think Luanne will join Kristen's side because a power struggle developing between the Countess and the Yummiest isn't hard to imagine.

[Grneyedldy]

Heads up......First Look tomorrow OC at 11:24 a.m. Followed by First Look NY and the premier of Real Housewives of Melbourne.

Edited August 2, 2014 by Grneyedldy

[comatoast]

Since I can't remember precisely what words were used, I'll just convey that the comments weren't particularly favorable.  Most of them implied Sonja had been a bit..."busy" in high school  

Now that's something we can all believe. She's been a busy "connector" since the age of 14.

Edited August 2, 2014 by comatoast

[tulip555]

People keep throwing Peabodys out as if it guarantees Carole some sort of factual level of competence for all time.  It does not.  Has anyone gone through and seen what and who has won a Peabody?  I have.  I know.  My mother won one for her work with PBS. She and thirteen other people.  The show would most likely have won without my mother's input.  but she did provide it   Its nice.  It didn't make her perfect no matter how much I still love her.  It doesn't give Carole imo this teflon defense any time someone points out the fact that Carole currently sits in all her vapid glory on a trashy reality show.  For her second season. 

 

I have never understood why people think some kind of peer review is accorded this grand level of status.  I wonder how many who lap up Carole's cv give the same amount of laudatory excuses to Geraldo Rivera vis-a-vis his latest comments on women having youth as their main attribute for marriage?  You know a peabody award winner who also has had books optioned.

 

And it is funny that the book was optioned before it was really even written if you go by Carole's chronology on the show.  But then maybe that explains why I had two galleys from Henry Holt, The printed arc for the September release that never happened (the re vamped almost groveling promotional material was a good laugh -- funnier than anything int he book) and the egalley for the later eventual release.

 

Accomplishments might single people out in a category that makes them part of a "select" group.  It is not and never has been in my eyes a determination of one's character or the ability to not show your ass.  What's more I don't think Carole is better than I am or anyone else solely based on her cv.  And never will even if she hauls her flat wrinkled ass off the show and goes off and wins a Nobel Prize for Literature.  Sciences or the Peace Prize I might eat my words. 

 

Point is unless you are arguing the metric that Carole's accomplishments in your eyes make her totally flaw free, as a metric it simply does not work as some kind of argument that I shouldn't find Carole less than magnificent.  Movies get made out bad books all the time.  Blockbuster movies.  Heck really bad books make up some of the bestselling novels.  Some made into hugely successful novels.  Again ad populum is not really a metric with which to measure quality.  In a thing.  Let alone the person that created or helped create it. 

 

Carole had plenty of times to either walk away or rise above it.  Somewhat how I consider this Golden Aura'd Peabody Winner of an Optioned Book would do as heavenly choirs sing. She never did.  In fact several times she came away from her fights with Aviva looking like a damn fool.  A pathetic sad damn fool.  From Aviva.  From the woman I have come to believe wears a leg that is the incarnation of Eva Braun.  And fights like an idiot. 

 

And while I enjoy one person digging at another it does not and never on my part means I'm taking sides.  So I don't argue that Aviva is often wrong and a vicious fool in her attacks on Carole.  I do think Carole on the show, as Carole, Peabody winner and all that rosy goodness she is supposed to represent, is a famewhoring desperate fool who is way too invested in a show that her cv should allow.  Maybe it is some kind of mid life crises that has her on this show spreading the thighs of her life for a close up. 

 

You can admire Carole for all the hings you think she has accomplished.  But again they are not a metric that somehow trumps my own opinion on one famewhore of seven who all act like raving attention desperate addicts who are worth laughing at and nothing more.  In my opinion.

OH....I do so LOVE your comments...a 100,000 "ups" to you

[JAYJAY1979]

Seat order doesn't always gurantee an invite for next season.  I think during BH's season 4 reunion, Carleton was in the 2nd seat and she didn't come back.. plus Gretchen was in the 2nd seat of the season 8 OC reunion and she didn't come back.  It's a good indicator but not foul proof.

 

Also, your performance at a reunion can help hence how Brandi became full time for BH.. so there is a possiblity that Luann could regain her apple if there is a season 7.  She wasn't a full time cast member, but bought it in the first part of the reunion.Also,

 

 I read part of the Widows guide and it is so Carole!  No way a ghost writer wrote it because a ghost writer can write for someone, but they can't infuse the work with their personality.

Edited August 2, 2014 by JAYJAY1979

[Talented Tenth]

What is LuAnn's bitch about Ramona-what has Ramona done to her this season that has any effect whatsoever on Luann's life? She intimated her singing was bad. BFD-LuAnn's singing is awful and that is why she chose to sing a song why knew could not be aired. LuAnn does what she always does and reaches into the past to attack Ramona. Ramona said some stuff about LuAnn being a cheater. But LuAnn has brought the comment up far more times than Ramona ever said it.

I don't think LuAnn has forgiven Ramona for talking about her children and criticizing her parenting.

[Higgins]

Well, Ramona was saying what we all, and Rosie were saying. Luanne had other priorities besides parenting. Luann was so uncomfortable around her children. It was as if she barely knew them at all.

[Talented Tenth]

Yes. of course, it happened. Just because it was the men--they are also featured on the show. I don't want to be in a position of defending Aviva. I think she says some nasty things that most people wouldn't even think to say.

Maybe all 3 franchises are guilty of trying to stir up interest.

I don't know if we're on the same point right now. You implied Atlanta is known for knock down/drag out fights and used that implication to defend Aviva from racist accusations. You excluded Porsha's assault on Kenya. Without that assault (not fight) there has been no other example of violence amongst the women.

It is suspect that Aviva would bring up ATL in the way she did. It isn't clear what she meant actually. It is conjecture that she was referencing them due to fights. I don't understand why Aviva suggested the NY women would be shocked to see a RHoA, but it seemingly can only be racial. The ATL women haven't done anything worse or more shocking than any other franchise.

[Higgins]

I don't know if we're on the same point right now. You implied Atlanta is known for knock down/drag out fights and used that implication to defend Aviva from racist accusations. You excluded Porsha's assault on Kenya. Without that assault (not fight) there has been no other example of violence amongst the women.

It is suspect that Aviva would bring up ATL in the way she did. It isn't clear what she meant actually. It is conjecture that she was referencing them due to fights. I don't understand why Aviva suggested the NY women would be shocked to see a RHoA, but it seemingly can only be racial. The ATL women haven't done anything worse or more shocking than any other franchise.

Nene choked Kim. Sheree tried to pull off her wig. The men fought and Porsha attacked Kenya. Not everything is racial. I think it is a low blow to accuse someone of racism. There is no proof what she said had racial under tones and I'm frankly tired of people trying to twist other people's thoughts to fit an agenda. She never mentioned race.

[JakeyJokes]

Also, your performance at a reunion can help hence how Brandi became full time for BH.. so there is a possiblity that Luann could regain her apple if there is a season 7.  She wasn't a full time cast member, but bought it in the first part of the reunion.

 

 

Truth. Brandi Glanville's wry "When does the book come out? It's been a hot minute" to Taylor Armstrong is my favorite reunion quote EVER, and that's really saying something.

 

I think Luann and Ramona have an odd relationship based on mutual respect only because they understand what an RH gig really is. On WWHL they played a montage of all the times Ramona talked shit about LuAnn this year, and the Countess laughed it off. Some of it was mean-spirited, but some of it -- such as Ramona criticizing LuAnn's driving -- was just funny. Remember last season when Ramona was fighting with Heather and she went up to LuAnn and said "I love you because when you're mad at me, you tell me right away"?

[zoeysmom]

With none of them having much of a storyline anymore, I've thought the same.  I think we'll see a Kristen/Luanne vs. Heather/Carole dust up. 

 

Heather has already shown she doesn't have loads of tolerance for Kristen.  She's also been friends with Josh for 20 years.  Josh is the kind of peckerhead that would reveal private things about his wife to a friend of 20 years over drinks. That were summoned by their mutual acquaintance to Puffy.

 

 If Kristen's storyline is her marriage (again) and it continues to unravel, sides will be taken.  Anybody think Heather won't take Josh's side is this should happen?

 

I think Luanne will join Kristen's side because a power struggle developing between the Countess and the Yummiest isn't hard to imagine.

I believe to Kristen to be totally desperate and irrelevant.  How desperate do you need to be to write an open letter to OK! magazine defending your marriage. http://www.realitytea.com/2014/07/30/kristen-taekman-opens-up-about-her-marriage/

 

I really don't care if Kristen likes Elvis or looooooooooooooves Elvis because I think it is contrived to hide a very shallow, uneducated, miserable whiny person.  Kristen may find for once in her spoiled and entitled life that putting your marriage out there, in the most unflattering light, is hard if not impossible to recover from and get viewers to believe it is all good.  It is not that her marriage is unconventional due to their jobs or the fact they don't have five nannies-it is because they both are so self-absorbed assholes.  Josh has by far had the most time of any husband on the series this year and wasted it being a self-absorbed, verbally abusive turd.  Sorry Kristen no one but no one likes your husband.

 

Countess vs. Heather, interesting-if either Heather or Carole speak to LuAnn as to her trashing Ramona or Sonja.  One thing LuAnn cannot tolerate is criticism.  Kristen is just so effing annoying with her constant interruptions, the mugging for the camera, her over dramatized reenactments and always asserting the last word.  Getting hit in the mouth was the only interesting thing she did all year.   Although being a backstop kind of falls in line with lifestyle modeling.  LuAnn won't tolerate the younger, prettier Kristen for long just because although they both hail from Connecticut.  

 

So Kristen's storyline has kind of played out-her daughter is walking, her modeling career is back, her marriage was fixed through her image being placed on a billboard, her fight with Heather had no long lasting effects and Elvis made an appearance.  The Greek chorus on this cast is getting pretty crowded with LuAnn, Carole, Kristen and Heather all vying to have their storyline being to crack wise about the rest of the cast which looks like is only Sonja and Ramona.   I think it is a given Aviva is not coming back.

[jinjer]

 

I also think another reason why Ramona doesn't want to address this is because the side piece seems a little too interested in press attention. She's been stalking Ramona trying to confront her in public places. So I could see Ramona not wanting to engage in further discussion.

Then Ramona can just say so.  "It's been a difficult time, but we are working on rebuilding our marriage.  We are trying to keep it low key because there have been problems with certain people seeking press from it, and for that reason I don't want to discuss that aspect of it.  But I will discuss that Mario and I have been working hard at rebuilding our relationship."

 

ITA with the comments about Heather's bossiness.  Even if Carole is falling into Aviva's "trap" or plan, then Heather can just warn Carole about that.  She doesn't have to shush Carole or tell Carole to shut up.  Carole should be able to make up her own mind whether she wants to continue the discussion with Aviva on the reunion.

 

If Heather comes back, I think we are going to see a lot of warts courtesy of Andy and crew.

 

I like that the women basically have no storyline.  I just want to see them wandering aimlessly through their lives and interacting with each other.  The drama will then be organic and natural.  I don't want to see manufactured story lines like the Harry and the ring shit.

 

Back to Heather and her language.  Again, I agree that she will have different speaking patterns with different people and in different moods.  But on this show, she is with the same people.  If she were hanging around with Puff Daddy or the younger, hipper crowd that we saw at the cocktail party at the beginning of the season, then I could see her falling into more of a slangy speech pattern that they might be using.  

 

However, she is hanging with these uptight HWs all the time.  Even when they are being casual or drunk, she is very precise.  That is why when she is adopting her slang, it seems like she is acting and it is inauthentic to me.  Again, I am not talking about when she was angry and swearing like a drunken sailor.  That was flowing and natural sounding.  I am talking about her speech at Carole's party and her "hey mamas."  That to me is Heather trying to project that she is easy going.  Which to me she is anything but.  I think she is uptight and a control freak.

[sasha206]

And then she tried to hit Kristen with an oar! Why wasn't that addressed?

 

It was addressed.  Andy mentioned it and then they cut to the footage of it.

[Higgins]

 

Then Ramona can just say so.  "It's been a difficult time, but we are working on rebuilding our marriage.  We are trying to keep it low key because there have been problems with certain people seeking press from it, and for that reason I don't want to discuss that aspect of it.  But I will discuss that Mario and I have been working hard at rebuilding our relationship."

How do we know she didn't say that and what we are shown is the second or third time he brought it up?

On Bethenny she said pretty much what you just said. Just because they don't show us something, doesn't mean it never happened.

[sasha206]

Carole being on this show reminds me of the character Diane Chambers of Cheers.   Diane takes a job as a cocktail waitress and tells herself it is to study the human condition -- she's not just a cocktail waitress but in the end, that's what she was.  Carole acts as though this is some sort of sociological experiment and she's above all of this reality garbage -- she's studying the human condition.  But in the end, she's a Real Housewife reality star.  

Edited August 2, 2014 by sasha206

[Midnight Cheese]

I agree with jinjer.  There are exactly zero storylines on this show.  And that's just how I like it.  By any measurement, though, I feel Kristen had a hell of a lot more to show and do this season than anyone: planned the major trip, introduced her marriage, husband and therapy, confronted possibly aging out of modeling, daughter with a slight delay in walking, got attacked by a pulled-eyes, pinot-bellied, scumbag bitch-beast...

 

The "you have no storyline!  I made you relevant!" POV is one I associate with Apollo Nida (he's a husband...not for much longer...on the Atlanta series).  I don't want storylines, I want interactions, otherwise it's just fake dinner parties and super-boring.  But I enjoyed this season and loved the scenery of Montana and the Berkshires and Saratoga (loved St. Barths too) so a slightly more low-key show is good by me. 

Edited August 2, 2014 by Midnight Cheese

[Lisin]

Hey gang, lets cool it with the personal attacks. All opinions are valid, no one is "right" or "wrong" please, snark the show not the posters. 

[ScoobieDoobs]

So Kristen's storyline has kind of played out-her daughter is walking, her modeling career is back, her marriage was fixed through her image being placed on a billboard, her fight with Heather had no long lasting effects and Elvis made an appearance.  The Greek chorus on this cast is getting pretty crowded with LuAnn, Carole, Kristen and Heather all vying to have their storyline being to crack wise about the rest of the cast which looks like is only Sonja and Ramona.   I think it is a given Aviva is not coming back.

 

If Heather comes back, I think we are going to see a lot of warts courtesy of Andy and crew.

 

I feel Kristen had a hell of a lot more to show and do this season than anyone:

 

 

As I said before, seating at the reunion could mean nothing or it can be an excellent indicator -- of a lot.  Moaner & Kristen were sitting right next to Andy.  I think neither of them are going anywhere -- meaning they'll be back for another season.  Same for Sonja, Heather & Carole.  Back to Kristen, I think she's still got a lot of potential.  Her marriage to Dickhead is good now?  Oy!  Suppressing giggles.  I don't care much bout her love for Elvis, but the fact that she doesn't take shit from anyone, especially Moaner, makes her actually very good for the show.  And she's young-ish.  They need someone younger in the mix.

 

Heather also has a lot more to give.  We've only begun to see her anger.  I see her getting poked at -- maybe by some newbies?  To me, Carole seems the most played out right now, but she may be able slide by into 1 more season.  As far as Lu & Veevs go, they're obviously history.  Moaner is right.  Lu is just lashing out now cuz she's angry bout being pushed off the show.  Didn't Moaner pretty much whisper that to Sonja?  

 

And what about Veevs?  Wow, her body language couldn't be any more obvious.  She don't wanna be there.  Look at her.  OK, she's just about always been angry & sneering & screaming during the time she's been on the show, so it's hard to tell if she's any diff at the reunion -- but damn, her sneering there is palpable.

[ScoobieDoobs]

Just curious, anyone like Moaner's hair at the reunion?  I thought it looked really good.  Dated style, from maybe 1992?  Um, yeah.  But still, she looked pretty good.  Didn't it look more like a roller-set kinda thing, rather than a blowout?

Edited August 2, 2014 by ScoobieDoobs

[comatoast]

Even though Aviva's campaign to undercut Carole's professional legitimacy was creepy and egregious even in the context of the Housewives franchise, I can't get myself too worked up about. Carole came on the show of her own volition, trusted Andy (as crazy/idiotic a leap of faith If there ever was one), and peddled her "craft" as one of her main narratives. If I didn't find What Remains somewhat overrated and Carole herself insufferable and inconsistent with respect to her take on writing in general (apparently likening the process to authoring "long e-mails" is so insulting, despite the fact that WR originated as monologues Carole spoke into a tape recorder), I would probably be more horrified.

Her insistence that Aviva's experience undermined real writers who slaved for years trying to hone their craft was something that really bugged me about Carole during "book gate." In my opinion, that attitude in itself undermines those writers who are gifted enough to write a book-length manuscript in a very short period of time. 

 

Although I find Writer Girl, and all of them, really, likeable enough, there have been moments in which I have wanted to throw a plastic glass at each and every one of them, and the book story line had me aiming for Carole as well as Aviva. She was condescending and gave as good as she got, playing just as dirty with the insults and the diagnoses of different mental conditions. Of course, Aviva, like Ramona, just takes things too far, but Carole wasn't an innocent angel.

 

She revealed her insecurities about her writing career, which is why, bringing Bethenny back, as horrible as she can be, would make me the happiest RHONY junkie ever. I'd love to see the dynamics between Beth and every one of these ladies. How would Carol react, having someone around who also had a bestselling book (done on a Blackberry, no less) and who has a much quicker wit? What about the know-it-all entrepreneurs, Heather and Josh, interacting with someone who struck gold in business? Imagine Bone-Ya trying to compare her "empire" with Bethenny's! And Ramona... Do we know if they are still friendly after Ramona was proven right about Beth and Jason? Two shapewear lines, two billboards (Beth-Peta), two bestselling books, two or three (Sonja's canned wine lol)booze businesses, four branding experts (Heather, Josh, Beth and Sonja!) and all those "special" personalities wrapped up in one show.  One can dream.

Edited August 2, 2014 by comatoast

[Trooper York]

We'll I just want to tell youse guys that your mother was a hamster and your father smells of elderberries!

[JAYJAY1979]

I think we only skimmed the surface of Kristen and Heather's personal lives.  I'd rather see Kristen and hubby hanging out with friends outside the show without having to invite other cast members, or see more Heather/Hubby with their children.. or Heather at her job.

 

I loved the scene of Carole with her girlfriends just having fun, and i loved a scene of Ramona in season 4 where she tried interviewing new assistants.  I guess i'd rather see the housewives in their day to day lives and save the full cast interactions for the big vacation.

[comatoast]

your father smells of elderberries!

That's because at 70-something, they ARE elder berries!