Nathan and Esther: No Longer Lonely, Still Batesing Along

[PrincessPurrsALot]

The place to talk about Nathan and Esther.  Please feel encouraged to suggest a better thread title.  Social media and other spoilers are allowed in this thread. 

[Kiss my mutt]

Is Nathan the ugly one?

[emmawoodhouse]

Here, you be the judge.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CPRD2vunef2/?utm_medium=copy_link

[cereality]

Not sure who dressed Nathan for his engagement day in 95+ degree Orlando heat, but really?? He wears better suits to church on a regular Sunday. Guess he wanted to be memorable or maybe Esther has said she likes that suit? From the other thread -- yeah she's sweet and agreeable. Also a fundie from a big family though my sense is big is 6-9 siblings, not 18 siblings. They've only shown her on UP in one episode where he brought her home from Christmas to introduce her; seems he's been hanging at her place in PA as his family knew little about her. But yeah strikes me as that typical fundie wife who'll smile sweetly at him, which is what he needs.

As we've seen for YEARS post break up with that NYC girl, he can be rude and pissy if a mere "girl" has an opinion so he needs a fundie wife. He's the one who at Michael's wedding shopping was going on and on and on about how some dress didn't look good. And then when Carlin (or Tori?) was trying out hairstyles for he wedding he was going on and on about how they HAD TO wear their hair down, that's what guys like, the guy would be soooo disappointed if the girl didn't wear her hair down at the wedding blah blah. Lawson -- who is hardly the model of politeness himself -- was stunned and tried to shut his brother up being like "if a woman asks how she looks, the ONLY acceptable answer is great, perfect . . . ." Nathan still didn't get it.

On that UP episode they said they met/saw each other at a friend's wedding, exchanged numbers and texted and talked and like a week or 2 into it, he asked her to be his gf. She then told him pretty soon after that she wanted to do life with him. Given all that it seems like they've been together as bf/gf for a year or more. That's pretty long given that they professed their love for each other within weeks. He seems to spend a LOT of time in Pa with her. 

Good luck wedding planning - and doing life - with that one, Esther. Though I kid -- the Bates kids have done a decent job finding compatible matches. Annoying kids with annoying partners (Evan and Carlin), kids who hate their family with spouses who also don't want to hang out with the inlaws (Josie and Kelton) etc. so if they're the same fundie mentality and she truly believes in him as the headship, I think they'll be just fine and even happy.

[cereality]

Nice to see him acting like a normal 27 year old though. Goes to see his gf all the time without chaperones in tow. The pictures of them def suggest that they are kissing etc - maybe not sex - but still they aren't strangers physically. He's posted multiple pics with them kissing on the cheeks; a few of the Christmas pics last yr were them basically pelvic thrusting their bodies into each other; post engagement he's picking her up with his head pretty much in her breasts; and post engagement dancing with hands all over each other and faces so close there's no way they AREN'T kissing. Good for them.

[emmawoodhouse]

Cheek kissing from February (2nd pic). I guess Nate now prefers her blonde?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CK7477cjfwZ/?utm_medium=copy_link

[cereality]

Lol he's been engaged for all of 2 days. Tiffany (Law's gf) posted a congrats on IG when they went public with it today and he responds just now with -- Lawson it's your turn. In normal life people say these things just kidding -- though even still usually not moments after your own engagement because you're too happy with your own relationship to even notice or compare to anyone else's -- but in this family you know it isn't kidding it's like -- whew the 27 year old who everyone thought would never find anyone has been engaged for all of 3 minutes, so now he can TOTALLY make his 28 year old brother feel like a loser for NOT having settled down yet.

Edited May 24, 2021 by cereality

[Kiss my mutt]

1 hour ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Here, you be the judge.

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CPRD2vunef2/?utm_medium=copy_link

Survey says.....”YES”

[IndianPaintbrush]

Nathan's really packed on the pounds. I can't imagine what he'll look like after a couple years of marriage.

I really hope Lawson and Tiffany wait to get engaged. She is young, bubbly and fun, and certainly doesn't need to start a baby train right now.

[emmawoodhouse]

Tiffany and Esther are only a year apart. Tiff is 22, Esther 23.

[BitterApple]

I think I like Esther with the dark hair. It makes her eyes pop.

[cereality]

So no IG official congrats today from Erin, Lawson, Trace or Tori?! Tori ok I get it -- she barely posts her own family's stuff on social media let alone her siblings. But Erin, Law and Trace are social media whores. I don't believe that by 6 pm today, they haven't had a chance to post a congrats for an engagement that they've now known about for 2 days!?

[emmawoodhouse]

5 minutes ago, cereality said:

So no IG official congrats today from Erin, Lawson, Trace or Tori?! Tori ok I get it -- she barely posts her own family's stuff on social media let alone her siblings. But Erin, Law and Trace are social media whores. I don't believe that by 6 pm today, they haven't had a chance to post a congrats for an engagement that they've now known about for 2 days!?

Maybe it was enough to post congratulations on Nathan's and/or Esther's announcements? I saw posts from most family members in the comments.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, cereality said:

Not sure who dressed Nathan for his engagement day in 95+ degree Orlando heat, but really?? He wears better suits to church on a regular Sunday. Guess he wanted to be memorable or maybe Esther has said she likes that suit? From the other thread -- yeah she's sweet and agreeable. Also a fundie from a big family though my sense is big is 6-9 siblings, not 18 siblings. They've only shown her on UP in one episode where he brought her home from Christmas to introduce her; seems he's been hanging at her place in PA as his family knew little about her. But yeah strikes me as that typical fundie wife who'll smile sweetly at him, which is what he needs.

As we've seen for YEARS post break up with that NYC girl, he can be rude and pissy if a mere "girl" has an opinion so he needs a fundie wife. He's the one who at Michael's wedding shopping was going on and on and on about how some dress didn't look good. And then when Carlin (or Tori?) was trying out hairstyles for he wedding he was going on and on about how they HAD TO wear their hair down, that's what guys like, the guy would be soooo disappointed if the girl didn't wear her hair down at the wedding blah blah. Lawson -- who is hardly the model of politeness himself -- was stunned and tried to shut his brother up being like "if a woman asks how she looks, the ONLY acceptable answer is great, perfect . . . ." Nathan still didn't get it.

On that UP episode they said they met/saw each other at a friend's wedding, exchanged numbers and texted and talked and like a week or 2 into it, he asked her to be his gf. She then told him pretty soon after that she wanted to do life with him. Given all that it seems like they've been together as bf/gf for a year or more. That's pretty long given that they professed their love for each other within weeks. He seems to spend a LOT of time in Pa with her. 

Good luck wedding planning - and doing life - with that one, Esther. Though I kid -- the Bates kids have done a decent job finding compatible matches. Annoying kids with annoying partners (Evan and Carlin), kids who hate their family with spouses who also don't want to hang out with the inlaws (Josie and Kelton) etc. so if they're the same fundie mentality and she truly believes in him as the headship, I think they'll be just fine and even happy.

It was Tori. She was trying out hair styles for her wedding and Nathan totally flipped out. He really is an ass. I hope for Esther's sake she can deal with being married to such a jerk.

[PrincessPurrsALot]

The picture taken from behind of him kneeling down and giving her the ring, er, no.  Talk about two pigs fighting in a sack.  

[emmawoodhouse]

13 minutes ago, PrincessPurrsALot said:

The picture taken from behind of him kneeling down and giving her the ring, er, no.  Talk about two pigs fighting in a sack.  

Yet Esther will be required to drop baby weight two weeks post partum (eg. Bates sisters) to remain desirable for her man. Nathan has shown his chauvinistic colors before, and this one is straight out of the fundie playbook.

Edited May 25, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[Temperance]

Nathan was in a bad place after his break-up. I think he's better than Lawson, who's full of himself. Then again my opinion of Lawson and Trace went down after visit to the nation's capital in January.

[floridamom]

If this couple decided to kiss before marriage they need to publicly own it.  Cutting off that video was not honest of this family. Tell it like it is. The Bates parents are hypocrites IMO. 

[emmawoodhouse]

8 hours ago, floridamom said:

If this couple decided to kiss before marriage they need to publicly own it.  Cutting off that video was not honest of this family. Tell it like it is. The Bates parents are hypocrites IMO. 

They likely didn't kiss at the engagement. G&K were there  watching them like hawks. 

[PrincessPurrsALot]

Is it bad that I suddenly went all Michelle Duggar - he saw her knees!  He will spin out of control! No man can handle the sight of a woman's knees without falling into the depths of devil lust!  

[cereality]

I get what people are saying that Law and Nathan are both full of themselves, but IDK something about Nathan is far worse to me. I mean all fundie men are full of themselves, they've been told since birth that they are more important and can control a woman's life because they were born with a dick. Law though as the years have gone by seems to have become VERY aware of how handsome he is -- he is the annoying social media whore who needs constant attention, needs to dominate every conversation, probably expects Tiff to fall all over him for being soooo handsome and soooo talented and fall all over herself for getting SUCH a handsome man who could have had anyone (in his mind and his mommy's mind). Yet in some ways that attention whoring is not THAT different from lots of millennial men (and women) -- all they want to do is stare at pictures of themselves and be the center of attention (not all millennials of course but the ones who are more social media obsessed). I mean it's not that different from Evan.

And while I'm sure Law believes in the whole headship garbage, I can't recall seeing him assert his superiority over his sisters -- at least on the show. In fact he is the one that has raised an eyebrow at Nathan when he was picking on Michael's wedding dress and Tori's hair and was like WTF!? I feel like in regular life Law would be that frat bro in college who is friends -- at least surface level -- with everyone bc he just wants to party and have a good time with drinks in hand, not fight.

Nathan OTOH has a more typical fundie attitude on display at all times. I'm sure this has something to do with being dumped by Ashley -- like how dare a WOMAN turn ME down, like he dug his heels in more re -- I am a MAN, women WILL listen to me. That being said I think these attitudes were always there. I mean he courted Ashley from around Christmas 2015 (bc I recall he asked at the Bryant Park Christmas tree in NYC) until about June 2016. Yet he as an ass re Michael's wedding dress in mid 2015, BEFORE he was even courting Ashley. And FWIW Tori's wedding hair thing was like 18 months after the breakup so it wasn't like 2 weeks after.

I think he'll have definite expectations of Esther living however he wants. This isn't going to be a John type of husband who'll even say -- I want however many kids you want and let's be honest if Alyssa wanted to stop, he'd be THRILLED and running to go get condoms or a v. He may want a litter of kids to prove how much of a man he is. As someone said upthread, I do think he'll expect his wife to look GOOD -- i.e. drop that pregnancy weight ASAP. And I don't see him being a Chad who'll cook, clean, and raise the kids for Erin because he feels SOOOOO blessed to be with her. Nope she'll be expected to be chasing 4 kids, pregnant with #5 and still putting a full meal on the table and cleaning up after.

It's interesting how people react to breakups. Like Nathan dug his heels in more to being a fundie man, headship etc. In contrast Zach softened and realized his parents were full of $hit on lots of issues and he ended up treating his wife like he's so lucky she wanted him etc. It'll be interesting to see where Trace lands.

Edited May 27, 2021 by cereality

[emmawoodhouse]

It was Tori's hair, not Carlin's that Nathan went apeshit over. So, what, 2017? Tori's oldest is around 3, right?

[andromeda331]

20 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

It was Tori's hair, not Carlin's that Nathan went apeshit over. So, what, 2017? Tori's oldest is around 3, right?

She's the 7th one and 4th daughter.

[emmawoodhouse]

3 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

She's the 7th one and 4th daughter.

I was just commenting on the Hair Incident. I don't recall Nathan even being around to criticize Carlin 2 years ago.

[Tikichick]

On 5/25/2021 at 2:24 PM, emmawoodhouse said:

They likely didn't kiss at the engagement. G&K were there  watching them like hawks. 

Ugh.   WTH with these people.   Teenagers who don't know how to behave at a birthday party routinely get married and late twenty somethings need mumsie and popsicle there to monitor their engagement? 

[Spazamanaz]

Nathan - Bubble Butt Bates.

[floridamom]

I think they did kiss as the video was sharply cut off at that point. I believe that Gil and Kelly know very well that most of their courting children, adult or not have thrown the 'no kissing rule' out the window. This modest, pure image is mostly for the show at this point. However, I don't believe that the kids are doing anything radical or really sinful off camera but keeping up appearances for the sake of the show. 

[lookeyloo]

This is a “scripted reality show” which means barely any of it shows real life - in my opinion 

[RebeccatheWriter]

On 5/26/2021 at 9:43 PM, emmawoodhouse said:

I was just commenting on the Hair Incident. I don't recall Nathan even being around to criticize Carlin 2 years ago.

I don't recall him criticizing Josie or Carlin. However, he did say the stuff about Tori's hair plans and was rude while Michaela was shopping for her dress...calling one of the ones that she liked a Grandma dress. 

[cereality]

So Carlin has been posting all over IG re their day trip to that store in Kentucky (Renees) to get Esther's dress. The trip seemed to involve Esther, Katie, Kelly, Carlin, and 2 "sisters in law" -- I think of Esther's -- I believe one may be a SIL and one is a future SIL so maybe one of her brothers is engaged/about to be engaged? Uh -- is Esther's mother in the picture? Bc why the hell wasn't SHE going with her daughter with HER side of the family as opposed to Kelly, Carlin, and Katie!? I think Esther has sisters (though maybe not maybe it is just SILs)?? Is this one of those things where the Bates have bullied their way in -- they MUST attend in order to have material for IG and/or for the show (IDK if cameras are following them or not right now)?? They couldn't include her side of the family anyway?? Esther you better learn to stand up for yourself and what you want or Nathan and his loud annoying mom + sisters will make sure your family is cut out of the picture ASAP - just like Whit where they cut out her adoptive parents bc that just wasn't a good look for the Bates and then her bio parents seem to spend time with Z&W and their kids in the 1% of time where the time isn't already occupied by his side.

And Carlin posted a video where E comes out of the dressing room and C acts like that is THE DRESS. Hopefully not bc Nathan is also on IG + that dress was ugly. Though I imagine that's just a teaser bc then there's a bunch of pics of E posing with the various sisters while holding a garment bag that has the actual dress -- i.e. not showing it -- so I assume THAT is the THE DRESS and the earlier was just one of many she tried.

Edited July 9, 2021 by cereality

[emmawoodhouse]

I wonder if Carlin (and Esther) only posted pics with the Bates because her family declined to be on social media? She is one of 14 and has several sisters.

[3 is enough]

I really hope that Esther's mother was there,and she just didn't want to be in any photos.  I can't imagine wedding dress shopping with pushy in-laws.  

[IndianPaintbrush]

Engagement video.

The Bates girls have had some elaborately staged engagements, but this takes the cake. Also featuring a ton of hand sex, dancing, and full frontal hugging (gasp!)

ETA: They've kissed for sure. There's a moment where Nathan leans in for a kiss before the scene cuts.

Edited July 18, 2021 by IndianPaintbrush

[floridamom]

Kelly Jo and Gil must think that we are all stupid or something. This video was quite obvious that these two are alone together many times; may touch, hug, really hug, and they obviously have and do kiss each other...all before marriage AND engagement. They really need to step to the plate and clarify just where they are with these courting rules they have so eloquently advised us of in the past...Why is it different with their daughters? Esther had on a pretty little short skirt in one of those scenes...knees and thighs quite visible. Her arms are stick thin. I doubt she eats anything of substance...belongs to the Jinger Vuolo method of keeping stick thin.

[cereality]

On 7/18/2021 at 12:29 PM, floridamom said:

Kelly Jo and Gil must think that we are all stupid or something. This video was quite obvious that these two are alone together many times; may touch, hug, really hug, and they obviously have and do kiss each other...all before marriage AND engagement. They really need to step to the plate and clarify just where they are with these courting rules they have so eloquently advised us of in the past...Why is it different with their daughters? Esther had on a pretty little short skirt in one of those scenes...knees and thighs quite visible. Her arms are stick thin. I doubt she eats anything of substance...belongs to the Jinger Vuolo method of keeping stick thin.

Both Nathan and Law are alone with their gfs non stop. Law constantly posts videos of spending weeks at a time with Tiffany in Ca. - no siblings go out there with him; and now she's following him "on tour" for whatever new song he's released. Nathan isn't a social media person but I have the impression he jumps in a plane and flies to Pa. whenever he wants, not running it by mommy and daddy and bringing Jeb and Jud with him to chaperone. So yeah with all that time, both of them are acting like regular 27-28 yr olds with their gfs. I think Nathan/his gf have posted kissing pics before - one was a cheek kiss but another was on the lips; and a few other pics that were basically them hip thrusting into each other. And Law and his gf post videos showing them alone watching tv etc. w/ no family member there, yeah they can and do kiss as much as they want. Good for them but yeah Ma and Pa Bates are delusional if they think that anyone believes that their "rules" apply to anyone but the 18 yr old daughters engaged to 20 yr old guys. They control all of their daughters + they are able to control the sons in law that come in young (Travis; Bobby; Brandon) and don't know any better, but aside from that they have zero control here.

[emmawoodhouse]

Wasn't Brandon about 25? He wasn't that young compared to the others, and that includes Bobby and Kelton who were just 22.

[iluvobx]

9 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Wasn't Brandon about 25? He wasn't that young compared to the others, and that includes Bobby and Kelton who were just 22.

Remember how Kelly just hounded him about marrying Micheala?  She hounded that poor guy to death.  Kelly needs to stay OUT of that.  She does nothing but push those poor guys that are dating her daughters.  When my son married at 21 and I really wanted them to wait.  They were both 21 and knew each other in high school.  Thing is, I didn't hound him to get married but here we are 14 years, 3 children later and they are still going very strong.

[cereality]

11 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Wasn't Brandon about 25? He wasn't that young compared to the others, and that includes Bobby and Kelton who were just 22.

You're right Brandon was nearly 26 when he got married. Guess it was just easy for Kelly to walk all over him because he's so quiet and was just finishing up school when they started courting so she could keep pushing as in - do you REALLY need to finish first; can't you marry her during school; do you REALLY need to work for a year or 2 before marrying; why just marry her now blah blah; and he'd politely take it. I feel like the only guys she didn't mess with were John bc he just wasn't having it and she understood that if she pushed too hard J&A would just go establish a life in Fla. and she'd never see those grandkids; Kelton bc he already didn't get along with G&K and just like Alyssa, Josie would be quick to just go off and live life with Kelton and G&K would be out. So I guess that has something to do with the daughters who she thought would "walk away" and follow their men.

[emmawoodhouse]

I forgot how awful Kelly was with Brandon, but she hasn't changed. We weren't privy to what she did with Chad, but he was out of state, so maybe it wasn't so bad. 

[3 is enough]

Actually, it's amazing Kelly hasn't sent one of the potential husbands running for the hills. Or maybe she has.  Wasn't there some rumor about Carlin and Joe Duggar at one point?  

[cereality]

33 minutes ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I forgot how awful Kelly was with Brandon, but she hasn't changed. We weren't privy to what she did with Chad, but he was out of state, so maybe it wasn't so bad. 

I have to imagine Chad got harassed but not as bad as Travis, Bobby, and Brandon. He was also 26 when he married and had some skills re carpentry/contractor so he could earn a living without G&K's help AND is fundie. Plus it was the first girl courtship for G&K and first potentially successful courtship - Z's earlier one having fallen apart. The Bates were more fundie then and I imagine Kelly was freaking out that if Erin couldn't seal the deal, they'd be the fundie family where somehow every kid gets broken up with and none of the 19 would be marriable. Plus being closer to their fundy-ness and marrying fundy royalty (I think Chad's family is/used to be up there in the structure), Kelly knew that if she pushed too hard, Chad could easily just be like nope off to Oklahoma we go to live near my family, I'll start my own contractor business and we'll see your family 2x/yr max. I have a feeling both Kelly and Erin pushed Chad hard but subtly to get him to move to Tenn for Erin to finish college and then stay permanently afterward. I imagine Kelly was totally flattering him nonstop about how they couldn't wait to have him as a son in law/how amazing he is blah blah. Meanwhile Erin was doing the princess thing which for a 26 yr old male virgin - yeah he'd go live in Alaska with her if it meant he'd get some.

[emmawoodhouse]

Chad made sacrifices. He first worked at the scrap metal place (I think that's what it was), eventually turning that job over to Bobby when he started Paine Construction. But that took a few years. 

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

Chad made sacrifices. He first worked at the scrap metal place (I think that's what it was), eventually turning that job over to Bobby when he started Paine Construction. But that took a few years. 

He's the Ben Seewald of the Bates family execpt with a job. Erin volunteers him for any job needing to be done at her parents' or siblings house without asking him and knowing he probably doesn't want to. Doing whatever she wants him to do. He hires her brothers who can't get a job anywhere else thanks to Gil and Kelly awesome job of parenting. Why bother getting them to learn skills or anything when they can just get Chad to hire them. 

[iluvobx]

I find it so interesting that the Bates, Duggars, etc push their belief in the Bible but don't always practice it and really ignore major parts of it.  The Bible clearly states that the women leaves her family and cleaves to her husband.  The Book of Ruth.  Guess they like to ignore that part of the Bible.  All of those girls should be living where their husbands are from not vice versa.  When Mr. iluv and I married, he lived 2 states away, guess who moved.  It certainly wasn't him.

[3 is enough]

Evidently they all descended on Josie’s house yesterday to get the wedding invitations addressed.  There was a Chick-Fil-A spread and it looked like Nathan, Esther, and Lawson were just enjoying themselves while others did the work.  
I’m not sure if any of Esther’s family were there, but there was a woman I did not recognize- maybe her mother?

Why they all converged on Josie’s smallish place instead of the big house is baffling to me.

I can’t stand Nathan.  I don’t know what Esther sees in him.

Edited August 14, 2021 by 3 is enough

[BitterApple]

47 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

Evidently they all descended on Josie’s house yesterday to get the wedding invitations addressed.  There was a Chick-Fil-A spread 

I can’t stand Nathan.  I don’t know what Esther sees in him.

Esther's family seems to give a lot of leeway in terms of Fundie standards and she's a pretty girl. She could've easily landed a mainstream Christian guy with a real job. I don't get it either.

Do the Bateseses eat anything besides Cracker Barrel and Chik Fil A? I hope they realize all those calories are going to catch up with them eventually. 

[3 is enough]

They eat a lot of McDonald's too.  And drink a ton of Starbucks. Alyssa loves little Caesars, but Carlin and Evan seem to prefer Papa John's.  I don't think they are big on smaller mom and pop places unless it is ice cream/sno-cones.

I am embarrassed that I know so much about them from their Instagram posts.

[emmawoodhouse]

55 minutes ago, 3 is enough said:

They eat a lot of McDonald's too.  And drink a ton of Starbucks. Alyssa loves little Caesars, but Carlin and Evan seem to prefer Papa John's.  I don't think they are big on smaller mom and pop places unless it is ice cream/sno-cones.

I am embarrassed that I know so much about them from their Instagram posts.

In Carlin's latest vlog, she and Joy went to Starbucks and brought Chick fil A back to the warehouse for whoever was there. We got a twofer! 😁

Edited August 14, 2021 by emmawoodhouse

[ozziemom]

6 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

In Carlin's latest vlog, she and Joy went to Starbucks and brought Chick fil A back to the warehouse for whoever was there. We got a twofer! 😁

Well Evan in his video stopped at Dunkin Donuts, so they’ve added another coffee place!

[emmawoodhouse]

1 hour ago, ozziemom said:

Well Evan in his video stopped at Dunkin Donuts, so they’ve added another coffee place!

That was Dunkin? I didn't recognize it as we don't have them where I live.