Trials and Tribulations of Juicy and Tre...

[merylinkid]

Just saw this quote on my twitter feed:

 

“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong” - Francois de La Rochefoucauld.

 

Sums up Joe and Theresa perfectly for me.

[becauseIsaidso]

 

Restitution can NOT be discharged so whatever fines and restitution are owed will follow them until they die - and even after to the extent they leave an estate. You can't be forced to pay 100% of your earnings so they would be on a payment plan based on that.

 

Taxes can NOT be discharged and they will owe any taxes forever - with interest accumulating.

This gets to the crux of the disgust I have felt every time someone refers to Teresa as an 'amazing mom'.   Amazing moms DO NOT commit criminal acts that directly impact their ability to provide for their children both during the parent's lifetimes AND their estates once they have died.   The debts may not be transferable to the children (which is a good thing) - but the liens against the estates of either/or/and Tresea/juicy will certainly leave their 'four beautiful daughters' with little more than a pot to pee in...way to go Tre!

[WireWrap]

I question the appraisal which was actually $60,000.00 less than they owed-six months later it is on the market for $3.9 million-I think it is estimated by Zillow in the  low $2 million range.

 

They are asking way over market value and I question why, I think it is intentional on their part to keep it. IMO, just mine, I think they will try to take it off the market, with the excuse that it is not selling or refuse offers that are more realistic to its current, real value, which I see as just another scam. As long as they keep up with their mortgage payments, the bank will not foreclose on them. If they try this scam, I hope the Feds step in and force the sale, they should NOT be allowed to keep/live in that house, the house that fraud/stealing/grifting built.

 

It will be interesting to see IF they are able to make those payments. If they do, they had to have hidden money and I wonder if the Feds will then come back at them.

[LotusFlower]

I don't think she's anywhere close to being fired.  Bravo went as far as to run a NJ marathon the night of the sentencing.  They're going to capitalize on this for as long as they can.  And it wouldn't surprise me if they are already filming next season.  Like it or not, Teresa has a huge fan base and Bravo knows it. Then there's the curious factor - people who may tune in to watch an episode or two just to see what she's all about.  I bet ratings for the WWHL interview are through the roof.

 

Teresa used to have a huge fan base. To say it's been hit by her criminal ways is putting it mildly. Ratings for this season are way down, her latest book didn't sell like the others, and there's a tremendous amount of hate towards her now, different from your standard dislike towards HW's or reality stars people don't like. Plus, she's now a felon. Bravo would be taking a significant risk in re-hiring Teresa for even a minute more of filming.

[SFoster21]

All this prison talk has brought my secret addiction to life again. Few years ago between jobs, I got hooked on the prison shows on TV. (Love the Prison Wives one). Because of too much time on my hands this morning I was perusing the WV & CT "prison camps" ,as they are called. The one in WV is claimed to be the cushiest of all federal ones & is nicknamed "Camp Cupcake". The one in CT is nicknamed "Camp Fed". I use that term for all the low security "camps". Each site had their handbook listed for incoming "guests " (my term not theirs ). I skimmed thru it (approx 100 pages) & I found it quite fascinating. Tre Tre better be deciding what shoes she wants for her approx 5 pair of shoes they can have. ( work shoes, athletic shoes, shower shoes etc) Think for the most part they are issued to them or bought thru the commissary. Probably wouldn't be hard for most of us to decide but since she probably has 500+ pairs & mostly stilettos this may be one of many hardships for her (lol). Or were her shoes surrendered as assets? I did see where clothing can't be adorned so there goes the Fabillini jeweled baseball cap. I actually started looking at the sites cuz my husband wanted to know if they have tennis courts, golf course or at least a putting range. I haven't gotten to the "recreational" section of the handbooks yet. There's also a list of commissary items. I'm sure it's not what she's used to but doesn't look too bad. Didn't see Milania hair products on list. Sorry I don't know how to link - I just googled Fed prisons in CT & WV.

Was it said what "Camp " Juicy is going to? I figure they didn't because it's probably based on where there's a vacancy at the time they have to " surrender". I do realize there are other factors in play when the courts or whoever decides esp when the "guests" are in the public eye.

I just thought of something - can you imagine how much incoming prison mail these two will generate from their loyal followers (& I guess haters too). Maybe Tre's "job" can be sorting thru her own mail at the Camp's post office.

Mail not from your lawyer is opened by guards and checked for contraband. Prisoners do not handle mail.

That was one of many points that were inaccurate in the show Oz.

Edited October 4, 2014 by SFoster21

[jinjer]

So let's say Andy was holding $200,000 back for the reunion that Tre was anticipating using to pay the court at sentencing, will that be subject to garnishment first by the IRS, then the court gets less?

[LotusFlower]

So let's say Andy was holding $200,000 back for the reunion that Tre was anticipating using to pay the court at sentencing, will that be subject to garnishment first by the IRS, then the court gets less?

The premise of Teresa holding herself accountable towards restitution or paying her bills in any way is simply ludicrous at this point. It appears the only bills she and Joe paid were to their lawyers. It's shocking to me that the $200k they were obligated to pay by sentencing was part of the plea deal, and they simply ignored it. I think that's symbolic of every one of their financial responsibilities.

To answer the other part of your question, though - I do believe the IRS is always first in line in collecting back taxes and fines.

[kmayo44]

This gets to the crux of the disgust I have felt every time someone refers to Teresa as an 'amazing mom'.   Amazing moms DO NOT commit criminal acts that directly impact their ability to provide for their children both during the parent's lifetimes AND their estates once they have died.   The debts may not be transferable to the children (which is a good thing) - but the liens against the estates of either/or/and Tresea/juicy will certainly leave their 'four beautiful daughters' with little more than a pot to pee in...way to go Tre!

Ok, I agree with about 90% of your perspective :)  What I respectfully disagree with is the idea that anyone is owed ANYTHING from their parents' estates upon their deaths. I have repeatedly told my parents that while I appreciate their generosity in their wills, I hope they don't deprive themselves of anything while they are alive just to leave me and my brothers some $$.  I don't EXPECT anything, KWIM? They worked hard for their $, saved diligently and have retired in style. They travel extensively and I hope they do so as long as they are able. It is not their job to provide me with a payout when they die. I get why they are doing it- they love us :)  Lest you think I am some kind of Scrooge,  I have kids and hope to do as my parents are doing for us for them many years from now, but I don't believe I'm owed anything and my kids aren't owed an inheritance, either. It's a nice "bonus", lol.

On that note- this idea that Tre and Joe will be leaving them with "little more than a pot to pee in" upon their deaths as a terrible thing isn't even in my scope of what is wrong with those tools. The fact that no matter what happens in the rest of the girls' lives, they have seen their parents go to jail over greed and selfishness, ripping their whole family apart for many years (if not a lifetime) is what makes me furious. And it was for literally ALL the world to see on this show. Forever documented. They will always be the daughters of "disgraced RHONJ cast members Teresa and Joe Guidice". That's a legacy no amount of $ will ever erase. 

I can feel my blood pressure rising, lol. I need a drink!! 

 

[zoeysmom]

So let's say Andy was holding $200,000 back for the reunion that Tre was anticipating using to pay the court at sentencing, will that be subject to garnishment first by the IRS, then the court gets less?

The liens and garnishments have to be in place at the time a check is written.  Then come November 1, 2014,  Teresa and Joe are required to file monthly financial and show the $200,000.00.  (Such a fat chance of that.)  Right now I think the dough will be used to pay the $200,000.00 the Court ordered they pay Thursday. 

Edited October 4, 2014 by zoeysmom

[Auntie Anxiety]

 

It will be interesting to see IF they are able to make those payments.

Their mortgage payments are just the tip of the iceberg.  What about utilities, health insurance, homeowners, life (maybe?), healthcare and car insurance, gas, vehicles, etc.  

 

I'm single, grown kids who are on their own, I don't live an extravagant lifestyle, no debts but the bills really add up.  Even the vet bills for my dog are expensive and she's rarely sick.

 

Sometimes people who are facing a foreclosure sue the bank, saying that they didn't know what they were signing when they agreed to the mortgage.  It doesn't fly, but does buy time (a year or two) and they're not paying the mortgage because the house will eventually be auctioned off anyway, so why pay?  The bank (or government) may also be able to weigh in on the asking price; banks/the government don't want to be homeowners and would prefer getting 50 cents on the dollar to not getting anything at all.  This is all anecdotal and I'm just speaking from experience here (not my own but what I have observed others going through).

 

 

They will always be the daughters of "disgraced RHONJ cast members Teresa and Joe Guidice". That's a legacy no amount of $ will ever erase.

Nope, it will never go away.  They'll be living under this shadow forever (my advice would be that they should change their name when they get of age) and it will even be mentioned in their (my four beautiful daughters', that is) obituaries.  Thanks, Mom and Dad.

Edited October 4, 2014 by Auntie Anxiety

[zoeysmom]

Here is what I think will happen to the eternally judgment proof Giudices-in about 5 years, some sap, will loan Teresa or Joe money to buy a house.  The owner of record will be Gia and the Fraudices will be paying rent in the amount Gia owes on the mortgage.  Teresa will have a series of leased vehicles-probably grander than most of us will commit to payments on.  The designer duds may die down as she will be hitting 50 and leopard bikinis may not fit like they use to. Every month she will continue to fill out the federal forms until they pay off the $400,000.00 plus dollars.  The rest of the debt will be a wait and see game. 

 

I bet if tomorrow you asked Teresa to open her wallet it would have several credit cards in it.

Their mortgage payments are just the tip of the iceberg.  What about utilities, health insurance, homeowners, life (maybe?), healthcare and car insurance, gas, vehicles, etc.  

 

I'm single, grown kids who are on their own, I don't live an extravagant lifestyle, no debts but the bills really add up.  Even the vet bills for my dog are expensive and she's rarely sick.

 

Sometimes people who are facing a foreclosure sue the bank, saying that they didn't know what they were signing when they agreed to the mortgage.  It doesn't fly, but does buy time (a year or two) and they're not paying the mortgage because the house will eventually be auctioned off anyway, so why pay?  The bank (or government) may also be able to weigh in on the asking price; banks/the government don't want to be homeowners and would prefer getting 50 cents on the dollar to not getting anything at all.  This is all anecdotal and I'm just speaking from experience here (not my own but what I have observed others going through).

 

Nope, it will never go away.  They'll be living under this shadow forever (my advice would be that they should change their name when they get of age) and it will even be mentioned in their (my four beautiful daughters', that is) obituaries.  Thanks, Mom and Dad.

They can't go after the bank that holds the paper on their house as they have already pled guilty to mortgage fraud on the loan. But if anyone had the balls to it would be the Fraudicies. One thing that irritated me when these folks filed BK-no health insurance for themselves of their daughters.

[Auntie Anxiety]

 

The owner of record will be Gia and the Fraudices will be paying rent in the amount Gia owes on the mortgage.

Or they can just steal Gia's identity and start getting credit cards and loans in her name.  I tell my sons to check their credit information regularly for this very reason.

[Lablover27]

No health insurance?  Dang.  That just gives me the sweaty palms. 

 

I'm constantly asking Mr. Lab if he is still paying his life insurance monthly.  ;)  You want to know how I know he is?  When he's upstairs on a bar stool next to the stairs changing a light bulb in the ceiling and I walk out of the bedroom.  I've never seen him move so fast to get off the stool.  He "Stay away!"   Me..."Two million!" 

 

Any new links? 

[featherhead]

I don't use Twitter. Can anyone tell me if the wee Jimmy Mar-CRAZY is keeping quiet?

[amarante]

I think not leaving an estate for their spawn to inherit is the least of their bad parenting issues.

 

While I personally find their lifestyle of conspicuous consumption to be a poor moral compass for ANY child, to have that vulgar lifestyle funded by fraud and criminal activity - isn't THAT the huge white elephant in the room in terms of any praise for the Giudices as model parents.

 

I'm not really understanding the praise in terms of their "love" for their children. Granted there are parents who are abusive or neglectful emotionally or physically, but what special parenting did the Giudices exhibit that most other *normal* parents don't. 

 

Beyond not having health insurance, where was any money set up aside for the girls' college or graduate education. Granted any savings would have been taken by their creditors but at some point they made a conscious decision that living the *rich* life through fraud and any other means was the most important motivation in their lives.

[LotusFlower]

I don't use Twitter. Can anyone tell me if the wee Jimmy Mar-CRAZY is keeping quiet?

No, but that isn't surprising. He only pretended to be a player in the case. The truth is, he is no one, and knew nothing. Besides, he's probably consumed by rehearsing for tomorrow's reunion. All his drama, on Twitter and on the show, is about taking down Bobby and the twins.

[Daisy head]

Don't the girls do gymnastics? How do you dare allow that without insurance? Injuries are very common in this sport. But I guess they could whip out the big wad of cash in the ER just like at the furniture store...

[Auntie Anxiety]

 

where was any money set up aside for the girls' college or graduate education.

What good does money put aside for educations and rainy days do?  No one will be "jealous" unless you show them your bank statements.  The Fraudices (thanks, Zoeysmom?) like things to be far more ostentatious than that.  If you can't show it off, why bother?

[zoeysmom]

I don't use Twitter. Can anyone tell me if the wee Jimmy Mar-CRAZY is keeping quiet?

Featherhead, if you just google Jamesmarchese Twitter you can read it.  You don't have to be on Twitter to do it.

[zoeysmom]

Vicki Hyman http://www.nj.com/entertainment/celebrities/index.ssf/2014/10/real_housewives_of_new_jersey_joe_and_teresa_sentencing.html

[zoeysmom]

I'll do a one on one with Andy, I will do the Reunion. I won't pick change off the floor to sign Fabellini bottles:http://deadline.com/2014/10/real-housewives-teresa-giudice-cancels-public-appearance-after-receiving-jail-sentence-846000/

[zoeysmom]

Interesting take from Kim D. (friend of Teresa's for show purposes only): http://realmrhousewife.com/2014/10/04/kim-d-teresa-believes-rhonj-had-a-huge-impact-on-her-sentencing/

[Auntie Anxiety]

This is from The Daily Mail U.K.  There may be some trouble in paradise, according to this article.

Hope I got the link right.  

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-2780873/Are-Teresa-Joe-heading-divorce-Giudice-couple-growing-distant-feeling-strain-sentenced-jail.html

Edited October 5, 2014 by Auntie Anxiety

[AnnA]

Hi Everyone!

 

I'm a newbie here and after the sentencing Thursday, just HAD to find out what people were saying.  Once upon a time I posted a little on the Bravo boards and then on TWOP but they're gone now.  I saw a reference to this forum just before they shut it down but it took me two days to remember the name.  My memory isn't what it used to be!   

 

I can remember being frustrated at the overwhelming support for Theresa I saw on those boards initially.  It's refreshing to see that people now have an entirely different opinion of Theresa and Juicey Joe.  I'm sure she still has "fans" out there but thankfully, they don't seem to be here.

 

Nothing about the Guidices should shock me but I was shocked to read that they had no health insurance.  Considering the money she blew on parties, clothes and tacky furnishings, she has to be dumber than dirt not to have health insurance for the family she loves so much.

[LotusFlower]

Vicki Hyman http://www.nj.com/entertainment/celebrities/index.ssf/2014/10/real_housewives_of_new_jersey_joe_and_teresa_sentencing.html

The ones that stood out to me were:

1) Joe not knowing he is not a US citizen. I think he really is that dumb. And raised by dumb parents.

2) Joe and Teresa not disclosing the monthly rent checks they received from one of their properties, with TERESA endorsing and depositing the checks into her personal account. So much for Teresa not participating in this scheme.

Edited October 5, 2014 by LotusFlower

[Auntie Anxiety]

LotusFlower, not only did she participate in the scheme, she had the nerve to say she didn't know anything about the rental property even though she would write "rent" on the blank line on the check.  Her ability to so blatantly lie is breathtaking.  Her ability to believe she wouldn't be found out is even more breathtaking.

[Raiderred]

 

Don't the girls do gymnastics? How do you dare allow that without insurance? Injuries are very common in this sport. But I guess they could whip out the big wad of cash in the ER just like at the furniture store...

This does not shock me in the least.  I am a barrel racer(rodeo) and I would say 80% of the people that rodeo do not have any health insurance.  If someone is hurt, which is highly likely since it's a very fast equine event, the others have a benefit barrel race for them.  It never ceases to amaze me how this happens over and over. I know a woman who was injured on her horse, they held a barrel race and not too long after that she bought a brand new horse walker for her horses(approx price tag $15K)!  Some people have zero shame. 

[LotusFlower]

LotusFlower, not only did she participate in the scheme, she had the nerve to say she didn't know anything about the rental property even though she would write "rent" on the blank line on the check.  Her ability to so blatantly lie is breathtaking.  Her ability to believe she wouldn't be found out is even more breathtaking.

Right - she lied about that in the bankruptcy filings. Basically, everything that comes out of her mouth is a lie. But your last sentence sums up the most egregious trait of both Teresa and Joe.

The more I think about it, they got off easy.

[Lablover27]

Featherhead, if you just google Jamesmarchese Twitter you can read it.  You don't have to be on Twitter to do it.

 

Well, isn't he the little retweeter.  It's fucking funny and embarrassing for him at the same time.

 

ETA:  Off topic.  I was reading little tiny Jim's tweets and I put in my son's name to search (just wondering).  I just found a TBT post my son tweeted about me which led me to his instagram (he is 22).  Son got over 500 likes.  I am just laughing my ass off.  I'm going to kick his ass.  I'm honest.  I left him a note and a box of condoms and he posted my note with the condoms.  Apparently, I'm cool because they were 'sensitive'.  And the funniest thing, it was written on a Disney Cruise Line note pad.

 

Back to Tre and Juicy's problems.....

Edited October 5, 2014 by Lablover27

[Lura]

The one thing that made me shake my head in amazement was that after all of their apologies and promises that they've changed, they STILL failed to report one of their assets -- a vehicle, I think.  How stupid is that???  If anyone were asked to list their assets, I'd think they'd start with their houses and right near the top, they'd list their cars, boats, whatever.  After all the time they were given to prepare their cases, they didn't list everything!  The judge mentioned this fact shortly before her verdict, so I think she considered it to be important. Who wouldn't?  That would have convinced me that they hadn't  changed!!!

Edited October 5, 2014 by Lura

[amarante]

Regarding the health insurance, I am not at ALL shocked since it goes along with their way of thinking.

They stiffed their fertility doctor so they would have no qualms about stiffing the medical system for any other health care. Many people who didn't have group health care insurance in the pre Affordable Health Care Act days did not get insurance.

 

 The reason most people got health insurance is i in the event that of a  medical catastrophe, they would lose everything financially to pay for it if they had assets or more likely would just assume the government would pick up the tab. But since the Giudices didn't pay for anything why would health insurance be different? Health insurance really isn't meant to cover the normal illnesses of day to day life since between co-payments and deductibles, most of that wouldn't be covered by health insurance anyway.

 

Not that I am defending the Giudice's failure to get health insurance - just pointing out that since they never exhibited any fiscal responsibility, it comes from the same thinking. To some extent they are just extremes on a continuum of many people who bought more than they could really afford through credit and/or what were called liar's loans back during the housing bubble without considering the consequences.

 

I don't think Italians are more prone to criminal activity than other ethnic groups. However, I do think that there are certain sub-cultures in which evading taxes and pesky government regulations is more acceptable. I am aware of it among a lot of the Russian immigrant community - not because Russians are inherently amoral but because they were used to a system in Russia in which one absolutely HAD to learn to circumvent pesky bureaucratic regulations in order to survive.

[diorella78]

Most of Jim's twitter activity (and mocking of such) can be found in the Amber thread. For example...I see someone asked him how it's possible he can tweet so much if he has a job. His reply was that he just 'closed a Bank of America' case and is taking a break. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

 

I don't think Italians are more prone to criminal activity than other ethnic groups. However, I do think that there are certain sub-cultures in which evading taxes and pesky government regulations is more acceptable. I am aware of it among a lot of the Russian immigrant community - not because Russians are inherently amoral but because they were used to a system in Russia in which one absolutely HAD to learn to circumvent pesky bureaucratic regulations in order to survive.

 

 

I agree. Although I will go on record as saying the area from which they come from is generally mobbed up, and Italy in general is in the shitter. Many, many people evade taxes and it isn't like the IRS in the States....the Guardia di Finanza has a difficult time finding everyone who makes fiscal errors. And those who are able to slide through? They are appreciated and admired. Just looking at a case of a guy whose bar went under and "ran away" from his family (and debts). He was found hundreds of kilometers away kind of hanging out....the general vibe from posters on the situation was "Of course he ran away, the government sucks, now everyone in his home town should help pay for his bar."  Ok, then. This is why Filomena Giudice's comments about Joe simply deserving a "slap on the wrist" were not shocking to me in the least. 

Edited October 5, 2014 by diorella78

[msblossom]

Vicki Hyman http://www.nj.com/entertainment/celebrities/index.ssf/2014/10/real_housewives_of_new_jersey_joe_and_teresa_sentencing.html

Oh boy, what an unfortunate name.

Nothing in the article surprises me; that's just how the Jee-oo-dee-chays roll. I wouldn't be surprised if later they uncover more assets and shenanigans.

And regarding Joe's drinking and plea for rehab; waaaah, cry me a river. More BS; not that Joe doesn't have a problem with alcohol -- we all know he does, but he wouldn't be seeking help if he wasn't looking to shorten his prison time or look for some kind of bs leniency. The guy has a wine cellar full of booze, he makes and bottles his own wine and schleps it with him to parties, and his wife has her own fabu-effing-stoopid brand o'booze. I don't doubt that Juicy wouldn't attempt it if it guaranteed him leniency, but now that it wasn't granted, I'll be surprised if he'll maintain a sober life when he's out of the clink. Just glad the judge didn't fall for it.

[msblossom]

So now that Joe and Tre are each set to do prison terms, does anyone think Bravo will try to start filming another season to catch the next couple months before Tre does her time? Aaaaand will Bravo keep filming the whole family while Tre's gone to capture how they're all doing without her? I'll bet Andy is pitching this.

[zoeysmom]

Most of Jim's twitter activity (and mocking of such) can be found in the Amber thread. For example...I see someone asked him how it's possible he can tweet so much if he has a job. His reply was that he just 'closed a Bank of America' case and is taking a break. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHA

The matter Jim is talking about settled back in early August and a lawsuit was never filed. http://online.wsj.com/articles/bank-of-america-near-16-billion-to-17-billion-settlement-1407355290 On the show Jim said he worked with the same attorneys that were prosecuting Joe and Teresa. US Attorney's Office came out with a statement that no one connected with the Giudice case knew Jim. Undaunted Jim started posting link claiming that Paul Fishman was the attorney working in his case and Giudice. Paul Fishman is the lead attorney out of the NJ District and the face and spokesperson for the office. Much later JIm had to admit he had never met Fishman.  Bottom line Jim is not nor will he ever be an expert witness in "mortgage backed securities" or anything else, he is a seedy little mortgage broker, who does cheesy television ads.

 

 

So now that Joe and Tre are each set to do prison terms, does anyone think Bravo will try to start filming another season to catch the next couple months before Tre does her time? Aaaaand will Bravo keep filming the whole family while Tre's gone to capture how they're all doing without her? I'll bet Andy is pitching this.

Bottom line is Bravo is either going to have to put RHONJ on a very long hiatus-I am thinking until fall of 2016 or to keep Teresa on the show.  I think they would have more success rebuilding or bringing back Caroline and Jacqueline.  Dina doesn't add much and now lives in New York.  Joe has basically said he hates the show.  I don't believe for one minute Joe is going to be a dutiful stay at home father while Teresa is in prison.  He will have to work and the only work Joe knows is shady. 

[Barb23]

I would suggest for further reading, click on the "timeline" that is referenced at end of Janet Hymans article (sorry can't quote right on my phone- same article you are all referencing ).

Very, very informative. It answered my question of did they ever pay back any of the loans. According to the timeline : April, 2014 the Bankruptcy trustee submitted final report saying they only satisfied $7500.00 & owe 13.4 million, which creditors can still go after.

As Tre saying she didn't know what was going on, it looks like even at the beginning of this horrid mess, the first loan of $20,200 in 6/2004 was based on her falsified salary of "G&G Stucco " which showed her as owner, even tho Joe ran it.

One thing I keep questioning is that as of 2/2008 they owed total of 3.5 million in loans & lines of credit including the 1.7 million construction loan for Chateau Teresa. In 7/2008 they got another loan for 1.72 million claiming they had $ 500,000 In their bank account (which of course was a lie/ ? falsified.) Why were they given this newer loan when they owed 3.5 million? Isn't there some type of credit check run before giving them another million $ loan? I realize all the info that was given to apply for loans was falsified & don't know what the payback schedules were on previous loans but we're talking a million $. Besides car, home & home equity loans, I don't understand how the type of loans they got work. If anyone can explain, I would greatly appreciate it. Maybe I should ask Tiny Jim since he is "the expert" in banking & legal issues.

[Bronzedog]

Tiny Jim desperately wants to be relevant, which he simply isn't.

[SFoster21]

I would suggest for further reading, click on the "timeline" that is referenced at end of Janet Hymans article (sorry can't quote right on my phone- same article you are all referencing ).

Very, very informative. It answered my question of did they ever pay back any of the loans. According to the timeline : April, 2014 the Bankruptcy trustee submitted final report saying they only satisfied $7500.00 & owe 13.4 million, which creditors can still go after.

As Tre saying she didn't know what was going on, it looks like even at the beginning of this horrid mess, the first loan of $20,200 in 6/2004 was based on her falsified salary of "G&G Stucco " which showed her as owner, even tho Joe ran it.

One thing I keep questioning is that as of 2/2008 they owed total of 3.5 million in loans & lines of credit including the 1.7 million construction loan for Chateau Teresa. In 7/2008 they got another loan for 1.72 million claiming they had $ 500,000 In their bank account (which of course was a lie/ ? falsified.) Why were they given this newer loan when they owed 3.5 million? Isn't there some type of credit check run before giving them another million $ loan? I realize all the info that was given to apply for loans was falsified & don't know what the payback schedules were on previous loans but we're talking a million $. Besides car, home & home equity loans, I don't understand how the type of loans they got work. If anyone can explain, I would greatly appreciate it. Maybe I should ask Tiny Jim since he is "the expert" in banking & legal issues.

There was obviously collusion with the lending companies. There is more to this story.

[amarante]

Bottom line Jim is not nor will he ever be an expert witness in "mortgage backed securities" or anything else, he is a seedy little mortgage broker, who does cheesy television ads.

 

 

From what I have read, one of his employees was implicated in some kind of mortgage scam and the company had to enter into a settlement agreement with the government. So Jim cooperated with that investigation but not as an expert except in terms of the shady dealings of some of his employees.

 

And slightly off topic, but the twins' father was serving time in prison when Rino allegedly hooked up with the mother. I know this isn't the twins' thread but yet another morally bankrupt member of the cast. He had his poor workers remove asbestos illegally without using proper equipment or removal and then dumped it. 

Between the assault on the environment and the complete disregard of the workers from this guy; the cancer drug scam of Marchese; the felonious conduct of the Giudices; the Laurita's draining their company of money to support their lifestyle; Big Al scamming the NJ government to collect health benefits, they truly are a bunch of degenerates.

[zoeysmom]

I would suggest for further reading, click on the "timeline" that is referenced at end of Janet Hymans article (sorry can't quote right on my phone- same article you are all referencing ).

Very, very informative. It answered my question of did they ever pay back any of the loans. According to the timeline : April, 2014 the Bankruptcy trustee submitted final report saying they only satisfied $7500.00 & owe 13.4 million, which creditors can still go after.

As Tre saying she didn't know what was going on, it looks like even at the beginning of this horrid mess, the first loan of $20,200 in 6/2004 was based on her falsified salary of "G&G Stucco " which showed her as owner, even tho Joe ran it.

One thing I keep questioning is that as of 2/2008 they owed total of 3.5 million in loans & lines of credit including the 1.7 million construction loan for Chateau Teresa. In 7/2008 they got another loan for 1.72 million claiming they had $ 500,000 In their bank account (which of course was a lie/ ? falsified.) Why were they given this newer loan when they owed 3.5 million? Isn't there some type of credit check run before giving them another million $ loan? I realize all the info that was given to apply for loans was falsified & don't know what the payback schedules were on previous loans but we're talking a million $. Besides car, home & home equity loans, I don't understand how the type of loans they got work. If anyone can explain, I would greatly appreciate it. Maybe I should ask Tiny Jim since he is "the expert" in banking & legal issues.

The original loan on Chateau Felon was a construction loan and was incredibly expensive.  So they got another regular mortgage loan, IIRC, it was a 50 year mortgage.  That loan paid off the construction loan.  Here is what they were charged with:  http://stoopidhousewives.files.wordpress.com/2013/11/11918343158-21.pdf

[Gigi43]

That's why I've always believed Teresa does believe it when she's made her "this could happen to anyone" statements.... Because it probably could have happened to anyone they know.

Edited October 5, 2014 by Gigi43

[zoeysmom]

There was obviously collusion with the lending companies. There is more to this story.

If there was one lending company or a common employee I would tend to agree and I think Teresa would have rolled over in a heart beat but there are eight different lenders so I find it a bit of stretch their was collusion between the Giudices and the lenders beyond the usual loan officer wanting a commission.  I do think there was somebody or somebodies that taught Joe and his father how to work the system and what was needed to get a loan.  I also noticed a three of lenders were sub-par lenders.

 

In their plea agreement and even at the sentencing hearing there is a provision that if they assist the federal authorities they can receive a reduction in their sentences.  So if they have the dirt now would be a good time to spill it.

[amarante]

The fraudulent practices of the mortgage industry which almost sank the entire world economy  are well documented elsewhere.

 

There was a WHOLE lot of fraud going on which reached to the highest levels of the Wall Street investment banks which made huge amounts by bundling the crap mortgages and selling them to unsuspecting investors.

 

No one gave a damn whether the underlying loan was valid or made to people who could pay it off - whether the property was assessed properly because everyone was playing a game of musical chairs and passing the risk along. The mortgage brokers/originating banks made a huge amount of money and then sold the loans. These were bundled by the investment banks without any kind of due diligence and many of the high level Wall Street investment banks KNEW they were selling a load of shit. A few of them took short positions against the loan bundles.

 

Many people assumed that the real estate bubble was never going to burst and that property would appreciate in the same dizzying way it had been doing so that you could continue to refinance. Of course all bubble burst.

Not to excuse the Giudices who committed fraud but their fraud was less than that of the investment banks and originating banks like Washington Mutual who gave loans to anyone who crawled into one of their offices. And a LOT of people were doing the same as the GIudices but on a smaller scale - i.e. misrepresenting their income to buy a house they couldn't really afford through what were known as liar loans which didn't require documentation of income. 

 

ETA - As far as I can tell, all of their lenders were subprime or heavily involved in the crap loans like Washington Mutual. I live in California and I remember during the height of the bubble I would be getting an enormous number of solicitations to refinance my mortgage. Since I am an old fashioned kind of person, I had no intention of refinancing or using my home as an ATM to get the equity as I was brought up to believe the best thing one could do is pay off your mortgage before you retire LOL. I really had no idea why I was being besieged by solicitations until the bubble collapsed and I realized that a huge number of people had refinanced and now owed way more than the original purchase price of their home and probably were underwater.

Edited October 5, 2014 by amarante

[ninaschmina]

I was (mostly lurked) on TwoP and this thread has really solidified this new forum as my new go-to home for intelligent and funny snark.

 

It would have been unconscionable if Tre and Juicy had gotten away with such consistently brazen criminal acts and I feel their sentences were fair - neither too lenient nor too let''s-make-an-example-of-you-guys harsh. All the same time, I feel sad about the whole thing because of the children. My own family are a law-abiding, moral and educated bunch but alas not very close to each other and perhaps that explains why I've always had such a soft spot for this family because they are just so tight and loving with each other.  Something that I think a lot of us really crave. Anyhow, mainly I registered just to say that "Proseuction Whoooooore!" was everything! Bravo!  And if SNL does a sketch of the trial, they should definitely steal this line! 

[breezy424]

So now that Joe and Tre are each set to do prison terms, does anyone think Bravo will try to start filming another season to catch the next couple months before Tre does her time? Aaaaand will Bravo keep filming the whole family while Tre's gone to capture how they're all doing without her? I'll bet Andy is pitching this.

For sure Bravo is talking about it.  I wouldn't be surprised if they did.  I don't know when Tre's contract is up but she desperately needs money and I have no doubt she would agree to do this.  I also think they would want to  bring Jac back.  Dina was a bore and she's no longer the 'darling' Bravo thought she was but they'll bring her back.  She'll agree because she needs the money.  Since they're no longer concerned about upsetting Dina, an interesting dynamic will be created between Jac and Dina.  Kathy and Rosie will be invited back because Kathy's new house will be a storyline.  Kathy's lifestyle is coming up while Tre's house is on the market.  Joey and Mel are kind of out in left field with not much of a storyline.  Caroline won't be back - she's done with RHNJ.

 

Who knows but this season was so bad, they may be even talking about bringing the Kims and Danielle for a few appearances.

 

I think most of viewers really don't care about the twins and Amber or what happens to them.

[msblossom]

Bottom line is Bravo is either going to have to put RHONJ on a very long hiatus-I am thinking until fall of 2016 or to keep Teresa on the show.  I think they would have more success rebuilding or bringing back Caroline and Jacqueline.  Dina doesn't add much and now lives in New York.  Joe has basically said he hates the show.  I don't believe for one minute Joe is going to be a dutiful stay at home father while Teresa is in prison.  He will have to work and the only work Joe knows is shady.

NO to bringing back Jackie and Caroline. They have zero relevance unless they interact with Dina (and even then only in small doses). But that'll never happen -- Dina wants nothing to do with them.

If they started filming again for next season in a couple weeks they could bring back everyone from this season -- even Jim, bc even without breaking any laws or overspending, he makes Juicy look good. We can all watch Tre go off to prison and then they can film Joe making arrangements for he and the kids to move in with one of his brothers. All Joe needs to do is come across humbled, show him lovingly interact with his daughters, smoke a couple cigars with Rosie, and cook a couple family dinners. And voilà -- there's a season!! Then Joe and Melissa can be shown interacting with Juicy and taking a bigger role in their niece's lives. Dina has a responsibility to be a very present role in Audriana's life and this can be filmed while she also navigates her life in NYC (no one gives a rip if she's there or living in Franklin Lakes). If Bravo puts this franchise on hiatus for a couple years then adiós and good luck bringing it back. They need to keep filming while it's still interesting and fresh instead of the phony garbage they usually push.

[ryebread]

Ok, then. This is why Filomena Giudice's comments about Joe simply deserving a "slap on the wrist" were not shocking to me in the least. 

And this is why Filomena Giudice should not have a major role in the girls' upbringing.  If they're to learn anything about what their parents did and the consequences, this circle jerk of thievery has to stop. 

[Katjoy26]

Of course I don't believe Joe's claim that he wasn't aware he's not a US citizen until this case. But it's not even a credible lie, for a number of reasons. For example, I'm watching the episodes where they travel to Italy. Wouldn't the issue of citizenship have come up the first time he applied for a passport?

[diorella78]

Of course I don't believe Joe's claim that he wasn't aware he's not a US citizen until this case. But it's not even a credible lie, for a number of reasons. For example, I'm watching the episodes where they travel to Italy. Wouldn't the issue of citizenship have come up the first time he applied for a passport?

I am still left slack-jawed that his attorney actually threw that out there. It's one thing for the big goon himself to throw out another dumb lie....but....hello. His lawyer(s) should know better. Not only for the limitations on his rights as a non-citizen, but as you mentioned....he would have been travelling on Italian passport and US green card. As in...Joe would have had to either been sent to "the other/Non-US citizen line" at Passport control depending on the airport and obviously not have had a US passport and ask himself "Gee, maybe I should apply....oh wait!"

 

But no, it was just another "dumb technicality" that he tried to swipe under the table. "I dunno, I was a friggin baby when I came here...what'd I know, ya know?"  

Edited October 5, 2014 by diorella78

[Gigi43]

My father dragged me to our local social security office, just to keep him company in hell hole of a wait, over the spring for something involving my grandmother. Anyway we ended up talking to this 17 or 18yr old who spent his morning at the DMV to get a license only to be told he needed some kind of form from SS because he came to the country when he was 2 and his parents apparently didn't know he'd need such papers (felt so bad for the kid he kept holding put hope the wait would be short enough to make it back to the DMV before closing.) Granted Joe got his original drivers license many years ago but that alone would involve needing to know your status in this country, no? Since Joe has helped himself to Pete's license I bet he's seen Pete's passport which I would imagine would be different since Pete was born here. It is completely unbelievable he did not know he wasn't a citizen. Its HAD to have come up over the course of his life.