True Crime: Dateline's Coverage of the Betsy Faria Case & Other Similar Stories

[Meredith Quill]

Discuss Here!

[Cinnabon]

6 hours ago, Jillybean said:

I got Dateline fatigue a couple of years ago and haven't seen the episode (to my recollection) and didn't listen to the podcast, either. So I'm coming into this without knowing all the details. Now i just have to refrain from Googling so I can enjoy the show more. 

I thought the little "I'm a good person" number at the beginning was odd. I hope we don't see any more of that type of thing. Stick to the dramatization.

I'm in the small minority that doesn't enjoy Keith Morrison's narration on Dateline, I merely tolerate it.

Now the Dateline episode from 2019 seems to have been scrubbed from the internet. I spent far too much time last night searching for it! So frustrating.

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I googled to see if I could find anything about Betsy's family and their feelings on this series but couldn't find anything. I did read that it was thought that the actual facts were considered so dark and grim that it was decided to write it as a dark comedy, along the lines of Fargo. Which makes me think that the family will be portrayed in a good light (as they have been so far) and Pam and certain other people who deserve to be portrayed in a poor light will be. 

As a fellow true crime addict, I know where you are coming from. But if there is any person who deserves to have her story told in this manor (for those who don't follow true crime), it is Pam. 

“Fargo” and “To Die For” (also based on a true story) both come to mind for me. And I absolutely loved them both, so I’m in for the duration.

[leocadia]

43 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Now the Dateline episode from 2019 seems to have been scrubbed from the internet. I spent far too much time last night searching for it! So frustrating.

I have Peacock and wanted to watch the episode(s) (There are actually 4 Dateline's that cover it) as a refresher before starting this series.  For whatever reason (assuming it's due to this show) none of them are available on the streaming service.  There is, however, an episode of "Snapped" on Peacock that covers it more succinctly if anyone wants to see the true story.

[UsernameFatigue]

30 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

“Fargo” and “To Die For” (also based on a true story) both come to mind for me. And I absolutely loved them both, so I’m in for the duration.

Fargo is one of my favourite movies. I don't think I have seen "To Die For" so will have to look for it. Another Coen Brothers' movie that I loved is "Burn After Reading". Not based on a true story, but in the same vein of dark comedy. 

[sempervivum]

3 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

I don't think I have seen "To Die For" so will have to look for it

If you loved Fargo, you'll love To Die For.

[Cinnabon]

6 minutes ago, leocadia said:

I have Peacock and wanted to watch the episode(s) (There are actually 4 Dateline's that cover it) as a refresher before starting this series.  For whatever reason (assuming it's due to this show) none of them are available on the streaming service.  There is, however, an episode of "Snapped" on Peacock that covers it more succinctly if anyone wants to see the true story.

Thanks. I have YouTube TV and Peacock, and YouTube TV has dozens and dozens of old Dateline episodes available, but not the ones about Pam. NBC also removed them from their own site. 

6 minutes ago, UsernameFatigue said:

Fargo is one of my favourite movies. I don't think I have seen "To Die For" so will have to look for it. Another Coen Brothers' movie that I loved is "Burn After Reading". Not based on a true story, but in the same vein of dark comedy. 

I highly recommend “To Die For!” It’s absolutely brilliant. You won’t regret seeking it out.

[Melina22]

3 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

I highly recommend “To Die For!” It’s absolutely brilliant. You won’t regret seeking it out.

Isn't this the one with Nicole Kidman? Possibly the best thing I've ever seen her in. 

[Cinnabon]

11 minutes ago, Melina22 said:

Isn't this the one with Nicole Kidman? Possibly the best thing I've ever seen her in. 

Yes!

[UsernameFatigue]

17 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

If you loved Fargo, you'll love To Die For.

I'd say the same for Burn After Reading. Big name cast which doesn't always mean a great movie, but it this one it does. Brad Pitt was hysterical, and I am not always a fan. 

[doobiedo]

3 hours ago, Melina22 said:

Isn't this the one with Nicole Kidman? Possibly the best thing I've ever seen her in. 

Totally agree!  It’s the first time her acting skills impressed me

[Chewy101]

23 hours ago, UsernameFatigue said:

OMG, Keith Morrison narrating was just the best surprise. What a hoot! I also feel a bit sad for the victim's family, but if anyone deserves to have her life to be made into a mini series where she portrayed in this manner, it is Pam Hupp. Bring it on! 

Has he ever narrated the Nightmare Before Christmas? 

[Chewy101]

7 hours ago, Cinnabon said:

7 hours ago, leocadia said:

I have Peacock and wanted to watch the episode(s) (There are actually 4 Dateline's that cover it) as a refresher before starting this series.  For whatever reason (assuming it's due to this show) none of them are available on the streaming service.  There is, however, an episode of "Snapped" on Peacock that covers it more succinctly if anyone wants to see the true story.

Thanks. I have YouTube TV and Peacock, and YouTube TV has dozens and dozens of old Dateline episodes available, but not the ones about Pam. NBC also removed them from their own site. 

WHY!?  I remember seeing them, and now would be the perfect time to re-air them.

[Annber03]

14 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

Has he ever narrated the Nightmare Before Christmas? 

Oh, my god, that would be awesome. 

[Cinnabon]

17 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

WHY!?  I remember seeing them, and now would be the perfect time to re-air them.

IKR? I was finally able to find the 2016 episode, but that’s it.

[Cinnabon]

13 hours ago, Andyourlittledog2 said:

I don't feel like doing a dark comedy about this particular subject, at least in this version so far, is disrespectful. The only one who is coming off badly is Pam and the authorities, as they should. Betsy's family is fine, they are reacting as normal people and not made the butt of any jokes or disrespect.  Now, for an example of what not to do see Susan Lucci's travesty, Deadly Affairs. The ultra sexification of each case, the naughty innuendoes and sexual narration. It was a mockery of the murder victims themselves as well as their perpetrators.  There was another one on ID where they sexed things up and each episode was sure to include sultry women and men in their underwear, rolling around on beds and doing everything a porn film would do except show full sex and take off all their clothes. That was total disrespect to the victims. 

But this show, so far, has had some dark comedic moments but the butt of the disrespect is Pam herself. I am not sure how or if her husband is involved in anything.

Pam is a psychopath. They are usually quite charming and manipulate and insinuate themselves into your life before you realize it. The series takes that fact and shows us the underlying true nature of Pam which the people around her do not see because she is so good at predator camouflage. The dog knew because he wasn't fooled by the human mask. He sensed a dangerous person, a predator.  Many people have forgotten how to listen to their senses telling them when they are in danger and psychopaths use that to their advantage.

I was work friends with a serial rapist-murderer and honestly he was one of the nicest most trustworthy people I knew for over twenty years.  He was caught through DNA and you could have knocked me flat when he was arrested. I still can't believe I never had an inkling. I mean seriously, I let this man walk me to my car some nights. I find it hard to truly trust anyone anymore. 

Pam got away with her schemes and murder because people just don't look beyond superficial images and the mask the psychopath wears to fool us. But in this film we get to look and it makes the telling of the tale that much more interesting. We aren't being fooled; we are watching her at work.

Your story reminds me of Ann Rule/Ted Bundy. Are you familiar with “The Stranger Beside Me?”

[colorsblend]

15 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

WHY!?  I remember seeing them, and now would be the perfect time to re-air them.

My assumption is to get people to watch this show instead. 

[Andyourlittledog2]

11 minutes ago, Cinnabon said:

Your story reminds me of Ann Rule/Ted Bundy. Are you familiar with “The Stranger Beside Me?”

I know. I read that so many years ago, it was one of the first true crime books I bought.  But you never think there is someone like that next to you. And the guy next to me was so much worse that Bundy. He targeted elderly women who lived alone, broke into their homes and raped them then beat them. When he was caught he did some time, got out and decided apparently to kill them and remove all witnesses. He raped and killed a lot of elderly women but was never caught until they took his DNA as part of a requirement to bring in felons who had never been screened before. I think the cold case unit went into total shock. As did we who knew him.

You never really know who you are dealing with in life. Psychopaths are very good at hiding. That's why this show fascinates me in the way that they are doing it.  We the viewer can see her nasty soulless self but it's not through mustache twirling and dark looks. It's that her cheerfully banal persona gets pulled away just long enough to see the calculating, manipulative creature underneath. She seems annoying but harmless. And then she strikes.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 3/9/2022 at 4:04 PM, Melina22 said:

Isn't this the one with Nicole Kidman? Possibly the best thing I've ever seen her in. 

Best crime drama ever, imo.  Never tire of watching it. 
 

I tried watching Thing About Pam and I just couldn’t get into it.  Maybe, I need to unwind and try it again with a glass of wine.  

[Lovecat]

On 3/9/2022 at 11:25 PM, Chewy101 said:

Has he ever narrated the Nightmare Before Christmas? 

No, but he did 'Twas the Night Before Christmas and The Grinch.  Both are delightful :)

[ripple596]

I Love You To Death was another funny true crime comedy from 1990 with Kevin Kline and Tracy Ullman.

[Linderhill]

On 3/9/2022 at 3:52 PM, leocadia said:

I have Peacock and wanted to watch the episode(s) (There are actually 4 Dateline's that cover it) as a refresher before starting this series.  For whatever reason (assuming it's due to this show) none of them are available on the streaming service.  There is, however, an episode of "Snapped" on Peacock that covers it more succinctly if anyone wants to see the true story.

thanks for the tip!  I'll check out "Snapped."

[Cinnabon]

The entire 2019 Dateline episode is back up on YouTube!

 

[Cozytea]

On 3/28/2022 at 9:53 AM, Cinnabon said:

The entire 2019 Dateline episode is back up on YouTube!

 

I wish more people in this case were as in tune with their instincts as the woman who got out of Pam's car. She didn't like or trust her. Becausec of her, that poor man Pam killed got some justice.  It's too bad Betsy and her family were so fooled by Pam. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Cozytea

[Katie W]

Looks like they are starting to air the Dateline episodes as extras for the show on Peacock. I just watched the first Dateline episode that ever aired. They also said a never aired before episode of Dateline will come out on April 15th about the whole thing. 

[Cozytea]

On 4/3/2022 at 5:59 PM, ksutton625 said:

Looks like they are starting to air the Dateline episodes as extras for the show on Peacock. I just watched the first Dateline episode that ever aired. They also said a never aired before episode of Dateline will come out on April 15th about the whole thing. 

Yes, just watched a commercial for Friday's episode of Dateline.  It looks like there was an  interview with the prosecutor. 

[CynicalGirl]

Looking forward to the Dateline update on Friday. They probably won't cover this, but I would love to know how that crazy manipulative woman is doing in prison. Is she conning all of her fellow inmates now?

[Cinnabon]

2 hours ago, CynicalGirl said:

Looking forward to the Dateline update on Friday. They probably won't cover this, but I would love to know how that crazy manipulative woman is doing in prison. Is she conning all of her fellow inmates now?

Hopefully they put her in her place as soon as she arrived. 🤣

[CynicalGirl]

^ I know, right? But I could just see her trying to be the queen of the cellblock. 😆

[Cinnabon]

31 minutes ago, CynicalGirl said:

^ I know, right? But I could just see her trying to be the queen of the cellblock. 😆

Of course she’ll try!

[Melina22]

I don't imagine too many of them have had whole podcasts made about them, or series where they're played by famous actresses. She may be a little bit famous in there. 😁

[J-Man]

According to Wikipedia, there were at least five Dateline episodes on this case:

"The House on Sumac Drive" (2014)

"Game Night" (2015)

"Return to Game Night" (2016)

"Stranger Than Fiction" (2016)

"The Thing About Pam" (2019)

Peacock has the first episode as an "extra" under the "TTAP" series listings, but none of the other four episodes is available on Peacock (among the hundreds of available "Dateline" episodes. Can they be seen anywhere? 

 

 

[Cinnabon]

11 minutes ago, J-Man said:

According to Wikipedia, there were at least five Dateline episodes on this case:

"The House on Sumac Drive" (2014)

"Game Night" (2015)

"Return to Game Night" (2016)

"Stranger Than Fiction" (2016)

"The Thing About Pam" (2019)

Peacock has the first episode as an "extra" under the "TTAP" series listings, but none of the other four episodes is available on Peacock (among the hundreds of available "Dateline" episodes. Can they be seen anywhere? 

 

 

I found “The Thing About Pam” on YouTube last week, but I don’t know if it’s still up.

[CynicalGirl]

^ I watched the 2019 episode on youtube last week too.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 4/13/2022 at 10:58 AM, CynicalGirl said:

Looking forward to the Dateline update on Friday. They probably won't cover this, but I would love to know how that crazy manipulative woman is doing in prison. Is she conning all of her fellow inmates now?

I just saw Keith Morrison on Today talking about the update tonight.  What shocked me was that the former D.A. still believes Russ is guilty?  They intend to cover that.  

[chediavolo]

On 4/13/2022 at 10:52 PM, J-Man said:

According to Wikipedia, there were at least five Dateline episodes on this case:

"The House on Sumac Drive" (2014)

"Game Night" (2015)

"Return to Game Night" (2016)

"Stranger Than Fiction" (2016)

"The Thing About Pam" (2019)

Peacock has the first episode as an "extra" under the "TTAP" series listings, but none of the other four episodes is available on Peacock (among the hundreds of available "Dateline" episodes. Can they be seen anywhere? 

 

 

Ugh. It’s Peacock extra where they want you to pay for it😡

[mostlylurking]

Really looking forward to tonight’s Dateline. I’m very curious where everyone is now and really can’t wait to see what the prosecutor has to say for herself.  Apparently she’s going down with the ship and still believes she did the right thing.  I hope Keith skewers her.  

[J-Man]

1 hour ago, chediavolo said:

Ugh. It’s Peacock extra where they want you to pay for it😡

I have Peacock Premium, which normally costs $4.99/mo but is free with my cable subscription. And those four episodes are NOT available to me.

[chediavolo]

2 hours ago, J-Man said:

I have Peacock Premium, which normally costs $4.99/mo but is free with my cable subscription. And those four episodes are NOT available to me.

Wow so they want you to pay extra on top of paying  for peacock premium? I only have Peacock regular or whatever the heck it’s called because I get NBC with my TV subscription. These app prices and then the extra prices within the apps are absolutely insane something should be done about our all getting ripped off by the cable and the Internet companies

[Cinnabon]

Where to watch:

 

https://decider.com/2022/04/15/dateline-new-pam-hupp-episode-how-to-watch-live-peacock-thing-about-pam-dateline/

[CrystalBlue]

I guess I can watch OTA at 9:00 tonight on my NBC channel.

[SunnyBeBe]

Tonight I had a very strange experience with NBC.  I have cable, so I am able to access NBC On Demand, but for some reason when I tried to look at the schedule tonight, it said not available.  Then, when I tried to access online, it would not give me the schedule!  Very odd and infuriating. Cable is too expensive for this BS!!  I was able to get Live on NBC on my Roku and watched a little of Dateline, but it was so much of already aired info.  I got bored and turned it off. ☹️

Edited April 16, 2022 by SunnyBeBe

[dovegrey]

8 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 but it was so much of already aired info.  I got bored and turned it off. ☹️

I haven't seen the older Dateline episodes, but it seems like the TV show portrayed the real events pretty closely. I wouldn't say I'm bored with the current Dateline episode, but I'm surprised it's so consistent with the show.

But Leah Askey's interviews are new (as I understand it?) and wow. Her heels are dug in deep on rationalizing and sticking by her victimization of Russ Faria. As I listen to her, I keep thinking that she needs to be disbarred and kept far, far away from clients and courtrooms. She's scary in her righteous incompetence.

[SunnyBeBe]

10 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

I haven't seen the older Dateline episodes, but it seems like the TV show portrayed the real events pretty closely. I wouldn't say I'm bored with the current Dateline episode, but I'm surprised it's so consistent with the show.

But Leah Askey's interviews are new (as I understand it?) and wow. Her heels are dug in deep on rationalizing and sticking by her victimization of Russ Faria. As I listen to her, I keep thinking that she needs to be disbarred and kept far, far away from clients and courtrooms. She's scary in her righteous incompetence.

Yes, about that former D. A.  Something is very off with her.

[Cozytea]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Yes, about that former D. A.  Something is very off with her.

The smugness is off the charts. You would think after all that has been revealed about the case she would have some kind of humility and admit to how she railroaded a man. 

[CraftyHazel]

Ugh, Leah Askey is the worst.

[Annber03]

34 minutes ago, dovegrey said:

But Leah Askey's interviews are new (as I understand it?) and wow. Her heels are dug in deep on rationalizing and sticking by her victimization of Russ Faria. As I listen to her, I keep thinking that she needs to be disbarred and kept far, far away from clients and courtrooms. She's scary in her righteous incompetence.

All I keep thinking while listening to her try to defend and excuse and justify her actions is that she sounds scared in her defensiveness, as though she knows the more scrutiny she gets, the more stuff that may potentially come out about her. It really is horrifying to see just how inept the police and prosecutors were in this case. Not to get all political here, but this is precisely why so many keep pressing for changes to the law enforcement system. It's so easy for people to think they'll never find themselves in Russ' shoes...until they do. And lord knows "Dateline" is littered with cases where somebody was wrongly accused and convicted of crimes they did not commit. 

I do love how Keith wasn't holding back in confronting her over her actions (and the expression on his face when Askey made clear she still believes Russ is guilty...yeah, my thoughts exactly, Keith). And I like that they didn't shy away from pointing out that Louis would still be alive were the investigators more focused on the right suspect all along. Yes, Pam would've done what she did no matter what, because she's just that awful, but the fact that she was able to get by with so much of her crap for so long and flew under so many people's radar for so long certainly played a role in allowing the entire situation with Louis to unfold as it did. 

I also rolled my eyes at Askey trying to be all, "Oh, Schwartz just has a bruised ego, nobody's cheering me for winning this case" when talking to Pam. YOU PUT AN INNOCENT MAN IN JAIL, YOU MORON. And you're letting yourself be easily duped by the very woman you're talking to, the actual criminal. Of course people aren't going to be thrilled about that. Jesus. Loved Mike's press conference calling out how poorly done this investigation was, and how it was all run by ego and an agenda. I am here for this public dragging of the local law enforcement. And Askey's trying to act all offended about it. Please. Get over yourself. 

In other topics, of course Pam tried to pit fellow inmates against each other. She really is one hell of a piece of work. 

[CynicalGirl]

Turns out there are too many posts to multi-quote but I agree with everyone, that Askey woman is a TRIP. I'm really surprised she even agreed to be interviewed, since she has been shown to be either super corrupt, or a total moron, neither of which are in her favor. Oh, so she has a highly successful law practice now? Sure, Jan. Who in their right mind would want her to represent them in anything?? I guess it's a good thing she remarried and changed her last name, but in such a small town, people still have to know who she is, and what she did. Again, can't believe she agreed to be on this show considering she refuses to do a mea culpa and at least apologize to Russ and the rest of Betsy's family, who she clearly contributed to tearing apart. I really felt for Betsy's daughter and it's sad she can't repair her relationship with the only dad she's ever known.

[Annber03]

1 minute ago, CynicalGirl said:

I really felt for Betsy's daughter and it's sad she can't repair her relationship with the only dad she's ever known.

I actually half expected the show to reveal at the end that they'd managed to reunite in recent months, and that they'd been there for the reunion, or something to that effect. Maybe someday...

[JeanJean]

When Askey said she was "duped" by the new prosecutor, I really wanted Morrison to ask what on earth she meant by that? I'm assuming she knows the meaning of the word.

The most mind-boggling thing is the way Askey was able to write off the testimony of Russ' 4 (four!) game night friends. If she really believed they were all in on it, why didn't she charge them as accomplices in those three years?

I know our minds always have to justify what we do and make us the heroes of our stories so we can live with ourselves, but damn!