S01.E05: Gladys

[Tara Ariano]

A vicious hate crime tests Laurie's resolve; Kevin mulls an outside offer for help to rid Mapleton of its problems; Matt takes his sermon to the street; Meg assumes a new role.

[shapeshifter]

If I didn't already know what the show was about, that episode description would sound like a daytime soap opera's.

[Primetimer]

On a Leftovers filled with body bags and missing shirts, what's lost and what's found? And what's Neil getting, Patti?

Read the story

[benteen]

And I'm supposed to feel sorry for the GR why?

 

I call bullshit on the townspeople not going to the GR facilities and burning it down after what they pulled last episode, which was barely mentioned at all tonight.

[Guest]

I call bullshit on the townspeople not going to the GR facilities and burning it down after what they pulled last episode, which was barely mentioned at all tonight.

Right?! And no one at the heavily attended mid-day town meeting (guess no one has a job) asked why THEY were being punished with a curfew after all their homes were broken into?

Not that I know much about small town governance, but does the mayor just generally waltz around the police station like she has an office next door to the chief?

Watch your back Hot Chief's wife--you're next 'cause I'm thinking Gladys' murder was an inside job.

Still bored to tears with this show but do appreciate the constant shots of Justin Theroux's uncovered body.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Guest

[larapu2000]

Not that I know much about small town governance, but does the mayor just generally waltz around the police station like she has an office next door to the chief?

 

Usually in small towns, the sheriff and mayor/town council have offices in a municipal building.  

 

It irritates me that they didn't mention the home break-ins by the GR either.  Did Kevin have a security system before?

 

Was there another cult mentioned by the ATFEC guy that wasn't the GR or the Wayne cult?

[benteen]

I do laugh whenever Kevin is at a town meeting and the F bombs start flying...

[xlibris]

We knew the GR are bad people. Now we can be sure their badness comes from a silly and stupid place. And I'm kind of OK with this because I feel like the show is embracing it. During the diner scene, as Patti was telling Laurie about Gladys' crisis of faith when her son was shot down, I thought about Gladys begging for her life as she was being stoned to death — it takes a lot of effort to undo the idea that life has meaning in and of itself. I don't think she was thinking of her important work staring at people and getting emphysema.

 

On the other hand, I thought the difference between "dead" and "gone" was one of the reasons the GR dedicated themselves to whatever it is they're doing, so the tone of Patti's speech to Laurie was a little confusing. Have they found a higher calling in being assholes? (And really, none of them can explain the game plan to Meg? And STILL she wants in?)

 

But overall, Patti's sure hand in putting Laurie to a decision made her seem more formidable as a cult leader (or cult middle management?), and while I've still got some questions about what the hell this show is up to, I was willing to roll with this episode. I don't need the cult to make sense to me, I just need to know why it makes sense to them.

[Neeners]

Um.  Can someone tell me what the fuck is happening in this show.  I swear to God the only reason I watch this now is to see Justin shirtless.  What a sad state of affairs.

[John R]

From having read the book I'm pretty sure that

the killing of Gladys is an inside job, perpetrated by the GR. First scene in episode when she nods confirms this. If show follows book, Laurie will be required to kill Meg.

.

[GaT]

My DVR recorded the first 5 minutes of this after True Blood, so I got to see Gladys die. I'm not watching this show again. Ever.

[bobbyjoe]

Tonight's episode has left me awash in exciting predictions about what's to come:

 

Next week, the GR toilet paper somebody's house!

 

Then, the week after that, they break into sleeping people's houses and put their hands in a bucket of warm water!

 

[both scenes are played with highly. serious. music. to let us know how deep this all is.]

 

Also, we see Patti stuff something down her bra.  But what is it?  What could it be?  Will the show ever tell us, maybe a few episodes later?   Oh, I do hope so!

 

While all this is going on, the reverend continues to stand outside the GR compound yelling into his microphone, and more GR people stand outside smoking and staring at the reverend and his crew.  Then, another cult, who likes to stand near people playing weird techno music shows up, while the reverend continues yelling into his mic, and the GR continues to stand and smoke.  This attracts the attention of yet another cult that likes to strip and flash total strangers.  So that cult flashes the techno cult who play music to try and drown out the reverend's group, who's yelling into the mic, who's being stared at by the GR, who are standing around smoking.  And this, in turn, attracts a cult who likes to burn big objects in effigy and suddenly there's a big object burning and naked people and people yelling into mics and lots of smoking and... it's the Burning Man festival!  Hooray!

 

Meanwhile, Justin Theroux walks around in each episode looking incredibly flustered.

Edited July 28, 2014 by bobbyjoe

[thuganomics85]

For some reason, my favorite moment (hell, probably the only moment I ever came close to "loving"), was Matt's "I say 'fuck' too!" line, to Kevin.  I think it was the way Christopher Eccelston delivered it, and the look he gave.  I think I would like funnier Matt quite a bit.

 

Besides that, yeah... so the Guilty Remnant basically finally get major retaliation.  That said, to be very dark, only one person getting killed was actually less then I expected.  Really, after the stunt they pulled last week, I figured more people would have been after them. Hell, they know where they lived.  I figured a mob was going to storm one of the places.  But, I'm sure they'll be back to their normal, smug status soon.  Hell, Liv Tyler is already embracing the smugness.  Besides that, all the stuff with Patti and Laurie went on too long and bored me, despite Ann Dowd doing what she can.

 

At this point, I want Kevin just to quit trying.  Between the unhelpful mayor and the town full of assholes, he's clearly not going to get any support.  Just hang it up, man.  You deserve better.

 

Does Aimee, Jill's friend, even have parents or a home?  It looks like she just spends all her time at the Garvey residence; even seemed like she slept over.  Seriously, I can not get a read on that particular character at all.  Speaking of Jill, her sudden bursting into tears also threw me for a loop.  What a weird show.

 

Good to know that the mayor isn't the only minority in town: there are two Indians who run the dry cleaning business!

 

Never before have I felt like I've been as confused as I am now.  I really want to sit down with these critics who have been praising this show nonstop, and figure out what the hell am I missing.  Because I really feel like I'm either an idiot who can't see greatness or this is some kind of elaborate prank concocted by the media and Damon Lindelof.

 

At least next week looks Nora-centric, which is good since she and Matt are probably the only character I somewhat give a damn about.

[seamusk]

For some reason, my favorite moment (hell, probably the only moment I ever came close to "loving"), was Matt's "I say 'fuck' too!" line, to Kevin.  I think it was the way Christopher Eccelston delivered it, and the look he gave.  I think I would like funnier Matt quite a bit.

...

At this point, I want Kevin just to quit trying.  Between the unhelpful mayor and the town full of assholes, he's clearly not going to get any support.  Just hang it up, man.  You deserve better.

That moment with Matt was a rare moment of levity for the show.  It needs more of that.  As for Kevin, he's not helping himself.  What a hot mess.  The curfew was a terrible idea.  And of course it was going to result in a lot of ire.  He's obviously a well intentioned guy but also quite a bit out of control.  Which actually makes him interesting.

 

 

 

Does Aimee, Jill's friend, even have parents or a home?  It looks like she just spends all her time at the Garvey residence; even seemed like she slept over.  Seriously, I can not get a read on that particular character at all.  Speaking of Jill, her sudden bursting into tears also threw me for a loop.  What a weird show.

 

I wondered this too re: Aimee.  It's not totally unusual for a teen to have somewhat flexible or absent parents. It happens. Could be they are working all the time or just bad parents.  But i'm curious about it since it's not the norm either.  I did get Jill's crying though. I thought that was one of the more realistic emotional moments on the show.  She has such much emotion built up over her mom leaving them for the GR. 

[Constantinople]

If I didn't already know what the show was about, that episode description would sound like a daytime soap opera's.

 

If you know what this show is about, don't keep it to yourself. Do tell.

Right?! And no one at the heavily attended mid-day town meeting (guess no one has a job) asked why THEY were being punished with a curfew after all their homes were broken into?

The one guy did say he worked nights. And the dog shooter has enough money he can just abandon a truck in the police chief's driveway. No theory about the rest.

 

Does Aimee, Jill's friend, even have parents or a home?  It looks like she just spends all her time at the Garvey residence; even seemed like she slept over.  Seriously, I can not get a read on that particular character at all.  Speaking of Jill, her sudden bursting into tears also threw me for a loop.  What a weird show.

I keep reminding myself that the episodes we've seen are spread out over several months. Still, it does seem odd that Aimee is always around.

As for getting a read on her, so far Aimee doesn't seem to exist as a character in her own right.

[tomsmom]

First it was case of the missing baby Jesus. This week missing shirts. Makes me wanna hit myself in the head with a rock for watching this shit.

Edited July 28, 2014 by tomsmom

[xlibris]

He's obviously a well intentioned guy but also quite a bit out of control.  Which actually makes him interesting.

I'm still having trouble warming up to him. I don't have any reason to root for him except that he's the protagonist. I would care more about his struggles with his wife and the GR if he wasn't also having such trouble with toasters, baby dolls, his security system, and shirts. What's next, a poetic battle against his TV remote?

[The Solution]

I'm still pretty intrigued by this show. I like things I don't understand.

 

However, I would have padlocked the GR inside their houses and burned them down. Freaks.

[Constantinople]

First it was case of the missing baby Jesus. This week missing shirts. Makes me wanna hit myself in the head with a rock for watching this shit.

First the people went missing.

Then the bagels went missing.

Only then did the baby Jesus go missing.

And after that, the shirts went missing.

[islandgal140]

 

Was there another cult mentioned by the ATFEC guy that wasn't the GR or the Wayne cult?

I thought the existence or rather the extension of powers to an already existing federal agency to deal with cults in the aftermath of the event  was one of the only interesting things to come out of this episode. The offhand mentioning of the ATFEC brought to light what has been bothering me about this series that I hadn't been able to articulate and why I am having such a hard time swallowing this malarky. 

 

I expect that the 3 years was meant to put some distance from the shock, WTF'ery, mouring and confusion between the event occurrence and the start of the series. I expect that it was thought that a lot of the furor would have died away and the general pop would fallen into a mixture of resignation, mild to severe depression, acceptance and the majority would have moved on with their lives. I just have real trouble buying that. The reason being is that I would bet money on true religious fanaticism rearing its ugly head with a passion. I have no doubt that there would be some weirdo cults like the GR and Wayne stuff but I believe the majority would have flocked to the various established religious. Reason being is that I think must would think it was that whole left behind scenario - especially Christians because that is where the concept arises from.

 

I know it was mentioned in passing on the show that the authorities haven't come to a conclusion on what happened, however, I have no doubt religion would have filled the gap. I don't find that improbably or even likely. I find that damn near a certainty. Hell, man has never before witnessed a true unexplained phenomena (or miracle to some) and yet still has been using tales and stories from the Bible written thousands of years ago to justify wars (Crusades, Middle East) slavery, racism, sexism - you name the "ism", all in the name of G-d. To finally be confronted by having a percentage just up and vanish out of the thin air would have people losing their shit and trying to "get right." Or at the very opposite of the spectrum having people think all is futile and just become completely amoral which would see a rise in crime, etc. I just can't wrap my mind around so many logical people living life as they have always done afterwards. Just no! The lack of any acknowledgement of a rise in religious fervor makes this whole series just ring false and hollow to me. YMMV.

 

Back to the regularly scheduled programming - the first 5 minutes with the stoning was way more disturbing to me than I thought possible. I thought I was desensitized to violence but I guess not. Also, just last week I was wanting to break a baseball bat over all the GR members after that stunt with the break-ins. I guess I am just a big old mush ball. 

 

I have such on odd 'relationship' with Liv Tyler. I don't mind her as an actress (mostly due to LOTR) but her 'soft' voice has always gotten on my nerves. I can't wait until she takes her vow of silence. 

 

I am not enamored of Justin T or his body so I don't know what keeps me watching. I guess I am still intrigued by the concept but the execution has been disappointing so far. At this point it is going take a Sixth Sense type twist to make this a good series.

[tomsmom]

First the people went missing.

Then the bagels went missing.

Only then did the baby Jesus go missing.

And after that, the shirts went missing.

I believe next is viewers.

Edited July 28, 2014 by tomsmom

[Davey]

After watching this week's episode I went back and re-watched the end of last weeks. I did this because I could not believe there was only one quick mention of the master plan by the GR. How can this be? Those pictures that were stolen may well be all these people have left of their loved ones plus, you know, it's breaking and entering. Are they above the law? They are allowed to stalk people after all. Or did this episode take place after they did their jail time? After the town marched down to their new church with pitchforks? After the police decided that it was such a well executed plan that there was nothing they could do? If you have last weeks ep. DVR'd or you have OnDemand and you want a good laugh re-watch the last few minutes where these master thieves leave fingerprints all over the houses and every frame they empty. What is the first thing you would put on when committing a crime? Gloves right? These morons did have gloves on, however all the fingers are cut off presumably so they can smoke in them. How did this plan work? This show is utterly ridiculous. Worse than even John From Cincy. 

[MissL]

 

Back to the regularly scheduled programming - the first 5 minutes with the stoning was way more disturbing to me than I thought possible. I thought I was desensitized to violence but I guess not. Also, just last week I was wanting to break a baseball bat over all the GR members after that stunt with the break-ins. I guess I am just a big old mush ball.

Me too. I really had to look away and felt so bad for her when she started begging. I actually considered muting it, I was having so much trouble with it.  Thank goodness I guess The Walking Dead hasn't completely destroyed my empathy.

 

I also join in on the "what the hell is the point of these GR people?".  I just don't get it.  I have no sympathy for Laurie for staying in this stupid cult.  They have yet to show me the appeal. At least her son has some creepy god like person who makes him feel important and special and treats him like he has a "special mission" which I still think is stupid but I can see what he is drawn too as a messed up kid.  I have NO idea what is drawing her or Meg in.  Except a group that gives them permission to not give a shit and act like assholes.  I have a strong aversion to smokers and lung cancer already and all that so a cult that encourages smoking ..well that's not helping.  

 

I'm very grateful they find so many scenes for Justin to be shirtless in though...

[valjane]

I actually really liked this episode, and I think that's because we didn't see too much of the daughter and we saw NOTHING of Tom/Christine, so that automatically makes it good in my book.

The stoning at the beginning was gut-wrenching and hard to watch. I'm still fascinated by the GR and was glad to see more about them here, although I was annoyed at Amy Brenneman blowing that whistle at the end. It's like they could easily be empathetic characters but then just when I start to feel it, they always do something to make me hate them again.

[GaT]

I wondered this too re: Aimee.  It's not totally unusual for a teen to have somewhat flexible or absent parents. It happens. Could be they are working all the time or just bad parents.  But i'm curious about it since it's not the norm either.  I did get Jill's crying though. I thought that was one of the more realistic emotional moments on the show.  She has such much emotion built up over her mom leaving them for the GR. 

Maybe her parents disappeared on 10/14? She might be on her own at this point.

[Latverian Diplomat]

So, the US has death squads now. Who apparently act fairly frequently. And yet this is so secret that Kevin is stunned to find out they exist. But once you know about them, you can ask for one to visit your local cult with a phone call.

 

Here's the thing. In countries where death squads operate, everyone knows they exist. But they are operated secretly to maintain deniability and avoid retaliation. This show has this exactly backwards.

 

And this system evolved in three short years where most people still have lots of friends and family, still have jobs, still pay their bills, etc. But sure, let's implement a draconian policy with a huge investment of people and infrastructure and not a peep from all the people who would normally object to such things. If you have to invent such a contrivance to make things bleak, maybe the pseudo-rapture wouldn't be so bad after all.

[Constantinople]

I wondered this too re: Aimee.  It's not totally unusual for a teen to have somewhat flexible or absent parents. It happens. Could be they are working all the time or just bad parents.  But i'm curious about it since it's not the norm either.  I did get Jill's crying though. I thought that was one of the more realistic emotional moments on the show.  She has such much emotion built up over her mom leaving them for the GR.

 

 

Maybe her parents disappeared on 10/14? She might be on her own at this point.

Since we're 5 episodes in, if Aimee's parents' had disappeared, I'd like to think the writers would have mentioned it by now. Also, I think Aimee & Jill would have a what's worse competition: a parent who disappears involuntarily and for no reason, or a parent who consciously chooses to abandon you, but at least you know is still alive.

[GaT]

 

 

Since we're 5 episodes in, if Aimee's parents' had disappeared, I'd like to think the writers would have mentioned it by now. Also, I think Aimee & Jill would have a what's worse competition: a parent who disappears involuntarily and for no reason, or a parent who consciously chooses to abandon you, but at least you know is still alive.

I would like to think that 5 episodes in the writers would have explained the GR by now, but it looks like neither one of us is going to get our wish.

Edited July 28, 2014 by GaT

[ganesh]

I call bullshit on the townspeople not going to the GR facilities and burning it down after what they pulled last episode, which was barely mentioned at all tonight.

 

I'm surprised no one was bitching at the chief for not arresting them or something. 

 

I don't need the cult to make sense to me, I just need to know why it makes sense to them.

 

I don't think it makes sense to them either. Hey, we don't talk. Until we actually talk. The conversation at the diner was exhibits A-Q on bad television writing. Saying Something with out saying anything. It's not mysterious, it comes off like you have no idea what the cult is. Which I think they do not. Not that they have to do a big info dump, but if you can't write a scene that's dramatic, while informative, then you shouldn't be writing television. Why are you having a scene like that if it's not to provide some info?

 

From having read the book I'm pretty sure that...

 

I didn't read that spoiler, but if you need to have read the book in order to understand the show, then TPTBs aren't doing their job.

 

The curfew was a terrible idea.

 

I don't know if it was terrible, but all of a sudden, the mayor was like, "do something." I think he figured that "well, the GR aren't going to just stay off the street because I tell them, so no one goes out at night then until we can find who did this." It's not that well thought out, but I can buy his reaction. He also just had a shouting match with the other cop too, so he was pissed off. At least there's something going on after presumably zero consequences for the city-wide B&Es. 

 

I do like that there is something in place to interface with federal law enforcement. This really should have been put forth prior to E5, with a show from a cop pov. So, the GR is known at the federal level, but no one knows anything about them? No one's arrested them for anything, maybe made a lawyer talk to them to figure anything out? I'm surprised no one suggested internment camps or something.

 

I expect that the 3 years was meant to put some distance from the shock, WTF'ery, mouring and confusion between the event occurrence and the start of the series. I expect that it was thought that a lot of the furor would have died away and the general pop would fallen into a mixture of resignation, mild to severe depression, acceptance and the majority would have moved on with their lives. I just have real trouble buying that.

 

I have real trouble buying a majority of this show. Religious or otherwise. I could get that there would be more religion if presented right. I'd also like to know how non christian religions are reacting to what happened. 

 

Maybe her parents disappeared on 10/14? She might be on her own at this point.

 

That's certainly possible. But again, something that the show could have easily addressed. 

[Milaxx]

I am not enamored of Justin T or his body so I don't know what keeps me watching. I guess I am still intrigued by the concept but the execution has been disappointing so far. At this point it is going take a Sixth Sense type twist to make this a good series.

 

For me I am hoping what we are seeing is a slow build like with Dollhouse or even to a lessor degree Agent of Shield. Right now it feels like we have a show with an interesting premise that has the potential to be good that is not quite living up to that potential. It feels like there are lapsing in reasoning that make it difficult to fully accept this world the show is portraying. A big one being the assumption that the world is so predominately Christian that a rapture like event would leave so much of the world hopeless and sad enough that a cult like the GR could spring up and take hold in 3 years. 

 

I actually really liked this episode, and I think that's because we didn't see too much of the daughter and we saw NOTHING of Tom/Christine, so that automatically makes it good in my book.

The stoning at the beginning was gut-wrenching and hard to watch ....

 

Imperfect though it was, this is definitely the most enjoyable episode of the series for me. It still bleak and sad, but I have no doubts left that the GR are bad guys or at least Patti is. Her implying that she had Gladys killed and her thinly veiled threat to Laurie to get her ish together made that pretty clear to me. 

 

I call bullshit on the townspeople not going to the GR facilities and burning it down after what they pulled last episode, which was barely mentioned at all tonight.

I'm surprised no one was bitching at the chief for not arresting them or something.

 

 

and yet these same people storm a town hall meeting, complain about a curfew and only mention the B & E in passing. Why aren't those people at the town hall demanding the G & R be arrested for the B & E that everyone appears to agree was done by the GR?

Edited July 28, 2014 by Milaxx

[Guest]

And to add another possibly unanswerable question: why does Kevin have a schematic of sorts on his wall detailing the players in the local GR? He seems to be hellbent on protecting them but isn't he investigating them ... for something?

And who is the figurehead of the GR? You can't have a cult without a central organizing figure handing down dogma. I thought initially that it was just some stupid local cult but according to the ATFAC, that doesn't seem to be the case

If I were neighbors with the GR loons, not only would I be pissed about having to live next door to a bunch of insane, mute stalkers, but now I have to worry about some preacher on his loud speaker waking me up in the middle of the night. It's just one massive no-win situation. Kinda like watching this show.

[ganesh]

No, pastor, I understand commitment too. Being an asshole to everyone and committing mass crime isn't to be respected. Not talking because why? Even though you communicate easily otherwise isn't commitment. It's being difficult for the sake of being difficult. And I think that sums up this show. 

 

And who is the figurehead of the GR?

 

This doesn't really fit from the conventional definition of a cult based on several centuries of history either. This isn't well thought out. 

Edited July 28, 2014 by ganesh

[ottoDbusdriver]

So, the US has death squads now. Who apparently act fairly frequently. And yet this is so secret that Kevin is stunned to find out they exist. But once you know about them, you can ask for one to visit your local cult with a phone call.

 

Took a quick look back at Episode 2, it was AFTEC troops that took down Holy Wayne's compound -- which confirms what Agent Killany told Chief Garvey over the phone that they do go in guns a-blazing to these cult compounds.

Maybe her parents disappeared on 10/14? She might be on her own at this point.

 

In the book,

Aimee's mom was a Departed and she was left living with a step-father that she didn't trust to be around alone with (he was a little touchy-feely), so she started staying over at the Garvey's house for a few days that turned into a permanent residence.  Until one day it got sexually awkward in the kitchen with Kevin Garvey and Aimee moved out the same day.

I'm curious why the GR were painting the newspaper boxes white. What's that got to do with anything ?

 

Nothing says 'we probably had something to do with this murder' than having a box of flashlights ready to go for the search party to look for the body before they had even called the cops.  How did the GR "find out" about the abduction/murder -- it's not like Gladys' partner called them on the phone ?  How did the cops find out ?  Why wasn't Chief Garvey asking those questions  ? And of course his entire police force is made out to look like complete incompetents (from the evidence handling at the murder scene to Fuckin' Lou not even asking Chief Garvey before contacting ATFEC). 

[valjane]

 

Imperfect though it was, this is definitely the most enjoyable episode of the series for me. It still bleak and sad, but I have no doubts left that the GR are bad guys or at least Patti is. Her implying that she had Gladys killed and her thinly veiled threat to Laurie to get her ish together made that pretty clear to me. 

 

Wait, what? I never caught on to this. How did she imply that she was behind the murder? I stepped away to put some pizza in the oven so maybe I missed it?

[benteen]

I thought the existence or rather the extension of powers to an already existing federal agency to deal with cults in the aftermath of the event  was one of the only interesting things to come out of this episode. The offhand mentioning of the ATFEC brought to light what has been bothering me about this series that I hadn't been able to articulate and why I am having such a hard time swallowing this malarky. 

 

I expect that the 3 years was meant to put some distance from the shock, WTF'ery, mouring and confusion between the event occurrence and the start of the series. I expect that it was thought that a lot of the furor would have died away and the general pop would fallen into a mixture of resignation, mild to severe depression, acceptance and the majority would have moved on with their lives. I just have real trouble buying that. The reason being is that I would bet money on true religious fanaticism rearing its ugly head with a passion. I have no doubt that there would be some weirdo cults like the GR and Wayne stuff but I believe the majority would have flocked to the various established religious. Reason being is that I think must would think it was that whole left behind scenario - especially Christians because that is where the concept arises from.

 

I know it was mentioned in passing on the show that the authorities haven't come to a conclusion on what happened, however, I have no doubt religion would have filled the gap. I don't find that improbably or even likely. I find that damn near a certainty. Hell, man has never before witnessed a true unexplained phenomena (or miracle to some) and yet still has been using tales and stories from the Bible written thousands of years ago to justify wars (Crusades, Middle East) slavery, racism, sexism - you name the "ism", all in the name of G-d. To finally be confronted by having a percentage just up and vanish out of the thin air would have people losing their shit and trying to "get right." Or at the very opposite of the spectrum having people think all is futile and just become completely amoral which would see a rise in crime, etc. I just can't wrap my mind around so many logical people living life as they have always done afterwards. Just no! The lack of any acknowledgement of a rise in religious fervor makes this whole series just ring false and hollow to me. YMMV.

 

Back to the regularly scheduled programming - the first 5 minutes with the stoning was way more disturbing to me than I thought possible. I thought I was desensitized to violence but I guess not. Also, just last week I was wanting to break a baseball bat over all the GR members after that stunt with the break-ins. I guess I am just a big old mush ball. 

 

I have such on odd 'relationship' with Liv Tyler. I don't mind her as an actress (mostly due to LOTR) but her 'soft' voice has always gotten on my nerves. I can't wait until she takes her vow of silence. 

 

I am not enamored of Justin T or his body so I don't know what keeps me watching. I guess I am still intrigued by the concept but the execution has been disappointing so far. At this point it is going take a Sixth Sense type twist to make this a good series.

 

I still disagree with the way people are acting.  It would be devastating enough if they lost their loved ones (and all these other people) in a plague or attack.  But to lose those close to you because they simply vanished and you don't know what the hell happened to them (or if it could happen to you or someone else you love at a later date) is awful.  It gives the person no sense of closure whatsoever and at the very least would keep someone on edge.

I do agree though that I don't buy the show's take on the role of religion post-rapture.  I imagine religion would make a huge comeback if an event like this happened.  If you can't come up with a scientific reason for millions of people disappearing, then it has to be an act of God.  For the most fervent followers like Reverend Jameson, it would reaffirm their faith.  God-fearing people would have a reason to be fearful now and many people who had abandoned religion would go back just to pray that they wouldn't be the next ones to be taken or to pray for the return of their loved ones.  Of course, even the most devout followers might turn against God and religion for what was done to their loved ones. 

 

I just don't buy that churches like Jameson's would suddenly become empty after an event like this.

[Milaxx]

Wait, what? I never caught on to this. How did she imply that she was behind the murder? I stepped away to put some pizza in the oven so maybe I missed it?

 

Okay just me again. I thought the whole reason why Patti took Laurie away was because she had that panic attack. Her whole little tale about how Gladys started to feel again after finding out about her son dying and then saying her reactions were infecting the group just seemed like a thinly veiled threat to me. It was as if she was letting Laurie know that doing things like mooning over her family and having panic attacks could make newbies like Meg also miss their family and/or doubt their conviction in the GR. I just got the impression that she was letting Laurie have this weekend to get it out of her system and also letting her know if she couldn't, she'd take care of her like she did Gladys. Now this is pure speculation on my part, but that was the impression I got.

[Diane M]

Who is the dog killer and what's with the lump in his cheek? A wad of tobacco, a tumor, bubblegum and why?

[ganesh]

It's a wad of tobacco. He's spit out the juice a couple of times. 

[shapeshifter]

First. About the shirts.

Last week there were missing pants. Thank goodness it was only shirts this week. But I was imagining the hotcop was smelling pretty ripe by the end of the episode. And I assumed the GR took them during their photo-napping because they wanted to wear them.

But I'm not sure that the shirts he got from the dry cleaner were or were not his. Seems it could go either way.

On a Leftovers filled with body bags and missing shirts, what's lost and what's found? http://previously.tv/the-leftovers/shh-its-in-the-bag/

Watch your back Hot Chief's wife--you're next 'cause I'm thinking Gladys' murder was an inside job.

From having read the book I'm pretty sure that

the killing of Gladys is an inside job, perpetrated by the GR. First scene in episode when she nods confirms this. If show follows book, Laurie will be required to kill Meg.

.

I often fail to get major plot points in shows, so I may have missed this, but is it actually in this episode, or would you have to read the book to get to this conclusion? I assumed it was more like:

so the Guilty Remnant basically finally get major retaliation. That said, to be very dark, only one person getting killed was actually less then I expected. Really, after the stunt they pulled last week, I figured more people would have been after them. Hell, they know where they lived. I figured a mob was going to storm one of the places.

Regardless, when Lauie blew the whistle, was she just doing it to stop Pastor Matt from making her feel emotions? After reading the Previously review and other interpretations based on the book, I'm guessing the whistle blowing was really, "Help me. Don't let them kill me."

ETA: Maybe Meg was worried about Laurie, so she dressed up in white and wrote, "I'm ready" so it would make Laurie look like a good GR?

About the body being shoved into the oven at the end...very Holocaust evoking.

Edited July 29, 2014 by shapeshifter

[ganesh]

I'm guessing the whistle blowing was really, "Help me. Don't let them kill me."

 

It's too bad she doesn't know anyone in law enforcement that she could contact in confidence about her suspicions. I'd suggest that she just walk away from the GR in the night or something, but she doesn't have anywhere to go, and I know she's so committed to the ideals and mission of the cult that she couldn't bear to leave them. 

[xlibris]

I don't think it makes sense to them either. Hey, we don't talk. Until we actually talk. The conversation at the diner was exhibits A-Q on bad television writing. Saying Something with out saying anything. It's not mysterious, it comes off like you have no idea what the cult is. Which I think they do not. Not that they have to do a big info dump, but if you can't write a scene that's dramatic, while informative, then you shouldn't be writing television. Why are you having a scene like that if it's not to provide some info? 

Let me defend that scene a little bit. I generally agree that we're not getting enough explanation about these people, but we did learn a few things:

 

• Patti isn't just the leader, she shapes reality. Her use of normal clothing and speech here reminded me of Napoleon from Animal Farm.
• The initiates' belongings may be confiscated, but they're not thrown away. Whoever holds those belongings is more equal than the other animals.
• Laurie may have had a crisis of faith, but she's owned. She could only go halfway — a rebellion inside her body, but not outside; taking back her clothes, but not her voice. She may have looked like the normals at the diner, but she wasn't one of them. (I believe she was blowing the whistle to have the church group taken away.)
• Patti's ash metaphor is one potential explanation for the cigs. It had the sound of shared language between them, like a maxim. Doubt won't burn them; they'll burn doubt. (And Gladys' incineration was a grim callback, not least because her doubt may have played a role in her death.)

 

This really should have been put forth prior to E5, with a show from a cop pov.

 

I still respect the idea of making this a small-town story, but the show is missing a lot of opportunities to explore — and explain — its world. 

 

In countries where death squads operate, everyone knows they exist. But they are operated secretly to maintain deniability and avoid retaliation. This show has this exactly backwards.

Call it "law enforcement" and you've got a lot more latitude with the public. Maybe this is why the GR insisted they're not a "cult"?

Edited July 29, 2014 by xlibris

[Milaxx]

It's too bad she doesn't know anyone in law enforcement that she could contact in confidence about her suspicions. I'd suggest that she just walk away from the GR in the night or something, but she doesn't have anywhere to go, and I know she's so committed to the ideals and mission of the cult that she couldn't bear to leave them. 

Based on the assumption that Laurie know's Patti was behind Gladys being murdered and seeing some of the other activities that the GR have done such as buying the church from the Pastor Who (also assuming they were the ones who threw the coma inducing rock) & the photo stealing B & E, I would think Laurie is more worried about what type of retaliation the GR would inflict on her (ex)husband, father in law & daughter than her own well being. 

[izabella]

I often fail to get major plot points in shows, so I may have missed this, but is it actually in this episode, or would you have to read the book to get to this conclusion?

 

Chewing tobacco guy said it on the show - "it's an inside job."

 

I don't know how credible he is, but I'm inclined to believe them because it seemed like he was in the middle of the flashlights with the GR as though he were showing them where the body was.  If he was in the woods when the kidnappers brought Gladys there, he could have seen who did it. 

 

I believe it.  There was a reason why Patti and Gladys exchanged those looks in the beginning, and Gladys nodded.  It seems she might have been aware, or even agreed, to something, though she may not have known what exactly she was agreeing to?  I was confused by that, anyway.

[MexiTan]

On a lighter note%u2026I just caught my breath from laughing at the last paragraph in this article. I'm SO GLAD to know that someone else watches the XLerator hand dryer wiggle the skin around on their hands while drying! Made. My. DAY. :D

[ganesh]

But the fact that the GR is in other places calls what Patti is on the organizational chart into question. I've seen no indication she's influencing events outside of the town. There's no mission, only weird signs on the walls. That's not compelling tv. 

 

The smoking is just stupid. 

 

Based on the assumption that Laurie know's Patti was behind Gladys being murdered and seeing some of the other activities that the GR have done such as buying the church from the Pastor Who (also assuming they were the ones who threw the coma inducing rock)...

 

I was being sarcastic. But, if she walked home and *said* "please take me back" he would. Or, if she's really that scared, she could call in an anonymous tip. She may have been blowing the whistle to chase away Pastor Who, so it doesn't matter in that case. 

[RandomX]

I watched it live night, though the stoning was so gross (and the sound effects so splorshtastic) that I muted it and don't know really that I fully tuned back in for the rest of the episode, which I found completely confusing.

I got the hints that the GR was behind the murder, but missed that Gladys somehow offered herself up as a martyr or otherwise was complicit in her own death. I thought the point of Laurie's vision of the stoning -- seemingly from a stonewielders viewpoint -- meant she also participated, but from the PrevTV article, maybe I was supposed to think this was just Laurie's flash to the horrific nature of the torture-death since she found the body.

Then, in the PrevTV writeup:

Meanwhile we imagine this is how Patti looked every day before October 14th, and it's no accident: Laurie was once Patti's therapist. Patti is clearly using Gladys's death, and some pancakes, to pull Laurie in deeper, to graduate her from convert to True Believer.

Wow - so I completely missed the therapist-patient relationship reveal (did we know that?). Like others, I took that conversation as a threat to Laurie. "Laurie, you remind me so much of Gladys ... who we just stoned to death! Muahahaha!" I guess the threat of a tortuous death could motivate deeper belief.

It amused me that Gladys was described as feeling too much when the opening showed her coldly stepping over a stricken elderly man (who had called her a vile name in the previous screen).

I figured the house alarm was the usual vague reference to the photo-thefts. I didn't get why Pastor Matt now has a packed living room -- maybe he's having his home services catered with all of his casino winnings? I might show up for the hot wings.

Enjoyed Hot Cop's phone messages and convos with the fed ATFEC? agent, who certainly didn't inspire any confidence.

This fell off the DVR. I'd swear off it, but watching it, then reading the explanations here amuses me because I usually do not miss major plot points as regularly as I do with this show.

Edited July 29, 2014 by RandomX

[Latverian Diplomat]

Took a quick look back at Episode 2, it was AFTEC troops that took down Holy Wayne's compound -- which confirms what Agent Killany told Chief Garvey over the phone that they do go in guns a-blazing to these cult compounds.

 

 

Oh, I remember. I didn't find that bit very plausible either.. A consistent implausibility is still an implausibility.

[Blakeston]

I think Laurie blowing the whistle was a way for her to show Patti that she was still dedicated to the GR.

We were meant to think that she was going out to take part in Matt's service - but then she takes out the whistle, and shows that she really ran outside to try to stop an outsider from pushing his belief system on them.

 

Wow - so I completely missed the therapist-patient relationship reveal (did we know that?).

I didn't notice any kind of a reveal about Laurie being Patti's therapist, either.

Edited July 29, 2014 by Blakeston

[Milaxx]

Wow - so I completely missed the therapist-patient relationship reveal (did we know that?). Like others, I took that conversation as a threat to Laurie. "Laurie, you remind me so much of Gladys ... who we just stoned to death! Muahahaha!" I guess the threat of a tortuous death could motivate deeper belief.

 

It's both. Yes Patti is sending a thinly veiled message to keep Laurie in line, but she's also alluding to their pre 10/14 relationship of therapist & patient.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Milaxx

[Constantinople]

I didn't get why Pastor Matt now has a packed living room -- maybe he's having his home services catered with all of his casino winnings?.

 

I'm not sure Matt's "church" has any more members than before.  Perhaps he has fewer.  So the same service that looked sparsely attended in the church building will look packed in his living room.