Obsessed: "Stan" culture

[Zella]

2 hours ago, Blergh said:

HOPING for incest in any capacity (including fictional)  is just nasty! 

Yeah I'm really taken aback by that. I think the only time I think I ever commented on potential incest was when watching Boardwalk Empire. One of the characters seemed to have a really weird relationship with his mom, and I commented on it to people. "Do you think he's banging his mom?!" And an episode eventually does reveal that they did have an incestuous relationship. I was actually pretty squicked out to be proven right. I can't imagine rooting for it. 

[Ohiopirate02]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

Yeah I'm really taken aback by that. I think the only time I think I ever commented on potential incest was when watching Boardwalk Empire. One of the characters seemed to have a really weird relationship with his mom, and I commented on it to people. "Do you think he's banging his mom?!" And an episode eventually does reveal that they did have an incestuous relationship. I was actually pretty squicked out to be proven right. I can't imagine rooting for it. 

I guess you did not read Flowers in the Attic at 13.  That book left an impression on a lot of women at a young age.  

[Zella]

26 minutes ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I guess you did not read Flowers in the Attic at 13.  That book left an impression on a lot of women at a young age.  

Nope I never did. But I'm not sure why reading it would make someone root for incest in a show or would make it any less gross of a storyline, which is what I am specifically responding to--the idea that someone is fangirling an incestual relationship between a parent and a child in a show, not the fact that incest happens or is present in some shows.  

Edited May 28, 2021 by Zella

[Danny Franks]

2 hours ago, Zella said:

Yeah I'm really taken aback by that. I think the only time I think I ever commented on potential incest was when watching Boardwalk Empire. One of the characters seemed to have a really weird relationship with his mom, and I commented on it to people. "Do you think he's banging his mom?!" And an episode eventually does reveal that they did have an incestuous relationship. I was actually pretty squicked out to be proven right. I can't imagine rooting for it. 

I'm seven episodes in to Boardwalk Empire, and already I'm pretty sure I know who you're talking about.

In the second episode, there's a scene that I thought was showing us one of the main characters was having an affair, when he went to visit a woman who worked as a showgirl. She leaped into his arms, kissing him and wrapping her legs around him while he grabs her by the arse to hold her there. Then I learn she's his mother. Okay.

You know, TV is about fantasy and being able to watch and enjoy things you would never enjoy in real life. A vicarious pleasure in seeing things that are taboo or unhealthy, and seeing the mess that they cause. So in that sense, I can understand people having a prurient interest in weird or creepy sexual relationships. This is how serial killers become anti-heroes and how stalkers become romantic leads, after all. But actually rooting for it to happen? Yeah, that's odd.

I remember season one of Arrow being a bit weird because Oliver had far more sexual chemistry with his sister, played by Willa Holland, than he had with his supposed love interest. In a situation like that, if the writers had been willing to explore the unhealthy dynamic of a girl who lost her idolised big brother when she was twelve, suddenly having to deal with his return when she was a hormonal seventeen year old, it could have been interesting (although it would have needed writers with a far more delicate touch than the Arrow writers had).

[Zella]

@Danny Franks yeah I was trying to avoid being too spoilery but damn it is just so evidently off that I don't think you can help but notice. 

[Danny Franks]

3 minutes ago, Zella said:

@Danny Franks yeah I was trying to avoid being too spoilery but damn it is just so evidently off that I don't think you can help but notice. 

No worries, the show quickly made clear that the woman is very messed up and the son just as messed up. Given the scenes they've had together, them not having had some kind of inappropriate relationship would have been more surprising.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

You know, TV is about fantasy and being able to watch and enjoy things you would never enjoy in real life. A vicarious pleasure in seeing things that are taboo or unhealthy, and seeing the mess that they cause. .

This. People who like those kinds of ships aren't all, "Yay, incest!" or anything like that. It's more that they just either a) really like the actors' chemistry and want to see more of them interacting, or b) know the ship is the sort that, were it to happen for real, would be hideously destructive in so many ways....but it's that very quality that makes it a fascinating thing to explore in a fictional context.  Same thing also applies to other kinds of questionable relationships-abusive ones, relationships that are meant to be nothing more than a fling, adulterous relationships, etc., etc. 

And in the case of Sam and Dean from "Supernatural", I've not seen that show, myself, but from what I've heard about those who do watch it, one big reason why people ship those two is because they're pretty much the only constant in each other's lives. The women they date don't tend to stick around very long, and so many other people come and go as well. They're the only two left standing much of the time. Add in the fact that the actors click well with each other, and...boom. There be shippers. 

(Now, of course, I also know there's the whole Dean/Cas element to contend with as well, which is a whole other topic unto itself.)

And yes, then there are examples like the sort mentioned elsewhere, where even if the bond between two characters isn't meant to be romantic, sometimes the writing and acting seems to imply otherwise :p. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Annber03

[Hiyo]

I don’t care what the circumstances are, shipping 2 brothers (or any family members) is just gross.

[Annber03]

It ain't my thing, either, no. Just sharing what I've heard in various fandom/general fanfic discussions over the years. 

Plus, with some series, like "Game of Thrones", or "Bates Motel", or things of that sort, it's kind of inevitable that some of those types of pairings will be popular, since romantic bonds between family members is a large part of the storyline of the actual canon itself. 

[JustHereForFood]

Pardon my ignorance, as I have never watched Supernatural, but from occasionally hearing/reading from its fans, I was under the impression that the big ship was between one of the brothers and an angel played by Mischa Collins, not between the two brothers. Have I got it wrong this whole time? : D

[Annber03]

5 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Pardon my ignorance, as I have never watched Supernatural, but from occasionally hearing/reading from its fans, I was under the impression that the big ship was between one of the brothers and an angel played by Mischa Collins, not between the two brothers. Have I got it wrong this whole time? : D

That is the big one, yes :). That ship and Wincest (as the one with the brothers is called) are basically the two big rival ones in the fandom, but yeah, from my understanding, Dean/Cas has well surpassed Wincest in terms of popularity over the years. 

(Seriously, it says something about how popular "Supernatural" is in fandom circles that even if you haven't seen the show, you still likely know something about it and/or its fandom :p.)

[JustHereForFood]

1 minute ago, Annber03 said:

That is the big one, yes :). That ship and Wincest (as the one with the brothers is called) are basically the two big rival ones in the fandom, but yeah, from my understanding, Dean/Cas has well surpassed Wincest in terms of popularity over the years. 

(Seriously, it says something about how popular "Supernatural" is in fandom circles that even if you haven't seen the show, you still likely know something about it and/or its fandom :p.)

Thanks for clarifying! And may I just say that Wincest is a hilarious name? And I generally hate couple names. But I agree that I would not want any incest couple on TV, unless it is obvious it is meant to be disturbing, like Jaime and Cersei.

Yeah, some shows you just happen to hear about, even if you don't care one bit. It probably helps that I am a big fan of Doctor Who, Sherlock and Good Omens and it seems that fans of these shows tend to cross over a lot.

[ABay]

These are all TV characters played by unrelated actors, not actual blood relatives. Most fans are pretty clear on that (even Supernatural fans, who are notorious within larger fan culture) and from what I've seen, don't expect or seriously want an incest storyline played out. It's a fan fiction kink among many fan fiction kinks. 

[Mabinogia]

2 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

But I agree that I would not want any incest couple on TV, unless it is obvious it is meant to be disturbing, like Jaime and Cersei.

I don't mind, and sometimes even like an incest story if it's not being portrayed as a romance. Jaime and Cersei fascinated me. That they were twins added a huge level of narcissism to their "bond" which is really interesting in a psychological way. I (loved isn't the right word, nor quite enjoyed, not sure what the right word is for it) was fascinated watching them together because it is such a twisted thing and it was shown as being twisted. But it was also a part of their character and their storyline. 

Something like Wincest is a bit odd to me. Harmless if it's just in a fanfic/personal daydreamy way but a bit worrisome in that Merlin example where the fan brought it up in every discussion of the show and actually wanted it to happen on screen. 

In the end, these aren't real people. The incest isn't real, the murders aren't real, etc. It's all make believe. It's fun to imagine crazy scenarios, it's fun to imagine strange pairings, but in the end it doesn't actually matter. It's not real life so if I don't get what I want from a show, I just create my own stories and move on with my life. I see most shows as a springboard to my imagination. 

I can't think of a single show that I would die on the hill defending. Even shows I think are absolutely brilliant, I can see flaws in and/or understand why other people might not like it. In the end it's just entertainment. 

1 minute ago, ABay said:

These are all TV characters played by unrelated actors, not actual blood relatives.

Yeah, I'd be far more freaked out by Jake and Maggie Gyllenhaal playing a married couple than in Lena Headley and Nikolaj Coster-Waldau playing a brother and sister who bang. 

[Annber03]

10 minutes ago, JustHereForFood said:

Thanks for clarifying! And may I just say that Wincest is a hilarious name? And I generally hate couple names. But I agree that I would not want any incest couple on TV, unless it is obvious it is meant to be disturbing, like Jaime and Cersei.

LOL ,it is a funny name, yes :D. I normally don't do the "blending names" thing, either (in my case, it's mainly 'cause my favorite pairings don't really have the kinds of names that lend themselves all that well to cute portmanteaus :p), but I have seen some pretty creative and clever ones for certain ships out there. 

Quote

Yeah, some shows you just happen to hear about, even if you don't care one bit. It probably helps that I am a big fan of Doctor Who, Sherlock and Good Omens and it seems that fans of these shows tend to cross over a lot.

Yes! I've heard a bit about the infamous "SuperWhoLock" that was all the rage for a time, where "Supernatural", "Doctor Who", and "Sherlock" seemed to kinda coalesce into this huge monster fandom of sorts :p. 

As a "Criminal Minds" fan, I know there were a TON of fanfics where people would cross that show with "Supernatural", too. And I know there's been many others. "Supernatural" seems like the equivalent of the little black dress-it goes with everything, apparently :D!

[Mabinogia]

2 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Yes! I've heard a bit about the infamous "SuperWhoLock" that was all the rage for a time, where "Supernatural", "Doctor Who", and "Sherlock" seemed to kinda coalesce into this huge monster fandom of sorts :p. 

I'm a WhoLock but I could never get into the Super side of it. I tried Supernatural a few times (aka whenever Mark Sheppard showed up), but otherwise I could never get into it. Though I've never really been on of those "OMG if you love (this show) you have to watch (this other show that is like it)." My tastes tend to be very erratic. 

[Zella]

34 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

Yes! I've heard a bit about the infamous "SuperWhoLock" that was all the rage for a time, where "Supernatural", "Doctor Who", and "Sherlock" seemed to kinda coalesce into this huge monster fandom of sorts :p

I had friends in college about 10 years ago who were definitely part of all 3 fandoms. I remember us sitting around at work and even those of us who didn't watch the show still being able to debate which Winchester brother we thought was the hottest just because the show seemed inescapable in pop culture. LOL 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Annber03 said:

And in the case of Sam and Dean from "Supernatural", I've not seen that show, myself, but from what I've heard about those who do watch it, one big reason why people ship those two is because they're pretty much the only constant in each other's lives. The women they date don't tend to stick around very long, and so many other people come and go as well. They're the only two left standing much of the time. Add in the fact that the actors click well with each other, and...boom. There be shippers. 

This is really true. Plus the show is so meta that it deliberately feeds the fandom. They even had the characters directly address Wincest. 

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, Zella said:

I remember us sitting around at work and even those of us who didn't watch the show still being able to debate which Winchester brother we thought was the hottest just because the show seemed inescapable in pop culture. LOL 

Dean. I mean, that's not even a question. It's Dean all the way. It was pretty inescapable. Much like Twilight's Vampire Dude or Werewolf Dude (I remember the werewolf is Jacob but the other name is escaping me.) I didn't care for either of them, but I do think Dean Winchester is quite yummy even if I could barely get through an ep of the show, even when Mark Sheppard was on it. 

[Zella]

8 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

Dean. I mean, that's not even a question. It's Dean all the way. It was pretty inescapable. Much like Twilight's Vampire Dude or Werewolf Dude (I remember the werewolf is Jacob but the other name is escaping me.) I didn't care for either of them, but I do think Dean Winchester is quite yummy even if I could barely get through an ep of the show, even when Mark Sheppard was on it. 

He was the winner in our discussion! Even the good ol' boy redneck who watched the show with his girlfriend chimed in to say Dean was the correct answer. 🤣

[ABay]

Ah, Mark Sheppard. The Anthony Zerbe of his generation.

[giovannif7]

Also, around the same time Wincest was blooming, Heroes gave us Petrellicest. The chemistry during the Season 1 scenes between Adrian Pasdar and Milo Ventimiglia as brothers Nathan and Peter Petrelli definitely added fuel to that fire.

[SVNBob]

8 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Something like Wincest is a bit odd to me. Harmless if it's just in a fanfic/personal daydreamy way but a bit worrisome in that Merlin example where the fan brought it up in every discussion of the show and actually wanted it to happen on screen. 

In the end, these aren't real people. The incest isn't real, the murders aren't real, etc. It's all make believe. It's fun to imagine crazy scenarios, it's fun to imagine strange pairings, but in the end it doesn't actually matter.

Then again, there are some stan-level wincest shippers that believe that the actors, not the characters, are (or should be) in a gay relationship, and that their wives/girlfriends are just beards.

They're not the only two actors people have involved in "RL slash".  But that's one of the more vocal and stannish communities.

[Hiyo]

Quote

You know, TV is about fantasy and being able to watch and enjoy things you would never enjoy in real life. A vicarious pleasure in seeing things that are taboo or unhealthy, and seeing the mess that they cause. So in that sense, I can understand people having a prurient interest in weird or creepy sexual relationships. This is how serial killers become anti-heroes and how stalkers become romantic leads, after all. But actually rooting for it to happen? Yeah, that's odd.

Even from a fan fic perspective, incest shipping is still...well...

Quote

I don't mind, and sometimes even like an incest story if it's not being portrayed as a romance. Jaime and Cersei fascinated me. That they were twins added a huge level of narcissism to their "bond" which is really interesting in a psychological way.

Yeah, I felt the same. They were fascinating to watch as characters, but I was never rooting for them in a "Aw shucks, I hope these star-crossed-lovers can get their happy couple ending" kind of way.

[kiddo82]

3 hours ago, Hiyo said:

YeahYeah, I felt the same. They were fascinating to watch as characters, but I was never rooting for them in a "Aw shucks, I hope these star-crossed-lovers can get their happy couple ending" kind of way.

Yeah, for me there's a difference between getting a kick out of something I know I shouldn't in real life vs actively rooting for it.  

[RealHousewife]

On 4/25/2021 at 7:05 AM, Danny Franks said:

Putting people on a pedestal either with the intention of tearing them down or of forever propping them up is incredibly unhealthy, for those on the pedestal as well as for those who put them there. And the tabloid media, as well as even less scrupulous social media influencers and Youtubers, will make as much hay as they can over the whole thing.

I've noticed this is done a lot to athletes. People worship them for their talent, then hate their guts if they decide to go to another team. 

[JustHereForFood]

6 hours ago, RealHousewife said:

I've noticed this is done a lot to athletes. People worship them for their talent, then hate their guts if they decide to go to another team. 

Or dare to comment on social/political issues.

[Blergh]

6 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

Or dare to comment on social/political issues.

It's OK, as long as the celeb/athlete EXACTLY echoes  some of these   fans' beliefs. However, the tiniest dissention /deviation and some of these fans are  ready   to reach for the pitchforks! 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Blergh

[RealHousewife]

The whole "shut up and dribble" attitude is so gross. 

[Spartan Girl]

8 hours ago, Blergh said:

It's OK, as long as the celeb/athlete EXACTLY echoes  some of these   fans' beliefs. However, the tiniest dissention /deviation and some of these fans are  ready   to reach for the pitchforks! 

And that’s when culture and purity culture come together and unleash hell on social media. It’s exhausting.

[Danny Franks]

On 6/2/2021 at 6:36 PM, RealHousewife said:

The whole "shut up and dribble" attitude is so gross. 

It's been like this for a long time. Bono has been mocked for years for his interest in global poverty and hunger, but when you listen to the man speak he knows far more about the subject that a lot of politicians. 

You get people coming out with "clever" rejoinders like 'he's a hypocrite because he's rich. Why doesn't he feed them all?' But then someone will use their own money to set up a foundation or a building/education/farming scheme and be mocked further as a do-gooder, bleeding heart.

And sure, a lot of the time celebrities might offer an opinion on something that's unqualified, but that doesn't mean they should shut up, it just means they need to learn more.

Edited June 4, 2021 by Danny Franks

[Hiyo]

People need to distinguish between the celebs who do things genuinely and those who are a bit more performative about it, I guess. But even then I suppose a consensus wouldn’t always be reached.

[Mabinogia]

7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

And sure, a lot of the time celebrities might offer an opinion on something that's unqualified, but that doesn't mean they should shut up, it just means they need to learn more.

I tend to use a celebrities opinions as a jumping off point. If someone I admire bring up something I didn't know much about, I don't just blindly believe them but I do look into the subject more. The trouble is, there are stans who will just blindly believe whatever their favorite celeb says. it's easier to let someone else do your thinking for you. 

No one is perfect. Even people I respect the hell out of and admire, and want to be like have some thoughts or opinions I don't agree with be they political, social, religious or just plain fashion or love life based. I am far too opinionated to blindly follow anyone. I'd be terrible in a cult. 

[Blergh]

18 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

I tend to use a celebrities opinions as a jumping off point. If someone I admire bring up something I didn't know much about, I don't just blindly believe them but I do look into the subject more. The trouble is, there are stans who will just blindly believe whatever their favorite celeb says. it's easier to let someone else do your thinking for you. 

No one is perfect. Even people I respect the hell out of and admire, and want to be like have some thoughts or opinions I don't agree with be they political, social, religious or just plain fashion or love life based. I am far too opinionated to blindly follow anyone. I'd be terrible in a cult. 

I agree! For example, I like the work and admire the person of Lily Tomlin a great deal and, while I was disappointed that she had more than the most de rigeur civil when necessary acquaintanceship with the (IMO) annoying and obnoxious Kathy Griffin (much less conducted Miss Griffin's wedding to her current husband in 2020), that didn't derail my liking of Miss Tomlin in the slightest!  Even though I may never get why she or anyone else may like folks I personally dislike, AFIAC, that doesn't mean that different POVs  alone totally trashes them as people. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

On 6/4/2021 at 10:24 AM, Danny Franks said:

And sure, a lot of the time celebrities might offer an opinion on something that's unqualified, but that doesn't mean they should shut up, it just means they need to learn more.

I think we've come to a point where "learning more" isn't allowed for. As @Blergh noted, the torches and pitchforks come out over the slightest deviation, and there's no such thing as just wording something badly or misspeaking. Social media has made it worse, since they can dash off thoughts now and hit 'send' in less than a minute without much consideration. It's like a live-action version of The Family Stone, where a misstatement can get you sandblasted before you even know what happened to you.

[biakbiak]

34 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

Social media has made it worse, since they can dash off thoughts now and hit 'send' in less than a minute without much consideration.

But celebrities know that more than a lot of people and literally get training in social media and frequently have to ask for control of their SM accounts because they don’t regularly manage them so for a lot of ridiculous shit celebrities put out there it isn’t a hasty decision and if it wasn’t what they meant they could easily delete and offer a retraction and an but most do not and double down. 

[Cobalt Stargazer]

2 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

But celebrities know that more than a lot of people and literally get training in social media and frequently have to ask for control of their SM accounts because they don’t regularly manage them so for a lot of ridiculous shit celebrities put out there it isn’t a hasty decision and if it wasn’t what they meant they could easily delete and offer a retraction and an but most do not and double down. 

And I would argue that saying nothing can be just as bad if not worse. The recent stories about Joss Whedon have caused Sarah Michelle Gellar to be chased for comments on the subject and if she knew anything was going on, even though it's been more than twenty years since BTVS went off the air. She ended up putting out some generic statement about how she stands with all victims of abuse, but the only reason anyone would even be asking is because it's her signature role, just like it's Whedon's signature work. If she'd said nothing, I would bet cash that there would be people insinuating she was hiding something, even though I never though JW had as many friends in the industry as some believe.

Also, Elizabeth Olsen ended up deleting her Instagram account because of the people trolling her after she didn't post regarding Chadwick Boseman's passing last year. I was personally very moved by the things I read from his co-stars, particularly Angela Bassett, but I don't think it's any kind of requirement to do so, and I thought it was jerkish to dogpile Olsen for simply keeping her thoughts and feelings private. If you're screwed either way, the great democratizing of the internet isn't always a good thing.

[biakbiak]

14 minutes ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

And I would argue that saying nothing can be just as bad if not worse

Well that’s not what your initial point that I responded to stated. Your example of Smidge also doesn’t seem to line up either because it was entirely managed by a PR team  and wasn’t a hastily written statement but also was acknowledging with out outing MT who she is very close to story and had not responded at the time about her abuse. 

Edited June 11, 2021 by biakbiak

[kiddo82]

16 hours ago, Cobalt Stargazer said:

And I would argue that saying nothing can be just as bad if not worse. The recent stories about Joss Whedon have caused Sarah Michelle Gellar to be chased for comments on the subject and if she knew anything was going on, even though it's been more than twenty years since BTVS went off the air. She ended up putting out some generic statement about how she stands with all victims of abuse, but the only reason anyone would even be asking is because it's her signature role, just like it's Whedon's signature work. If she'd said nothing, I would bet cash that there would be people insinuating she was hiding something, even though I never though JW had as many friends in the industry as some believe.

Also, Elizabeth Olsen ended up deleting her Instagram account because of the people trolling her after she didn't post regarding Chadwick Boseman's passing last year. I was personally very moved by the things I read from his co-stars, particularly Angela Bassett, but I don't think it's any kind of requirement to do so, and I thought it was jerkish to dogpile Olsen for simply keeping her thoughts and feelings private. If you're screwed either way, the great democratizing of the internet isn't always a good thing.

The way some people reacted to SMG'S statement about Joss Whedon pissed me off.  It's not her responsibility to answer for his behavior.

And I hadn't heard that about Elizabeth Olsen either but that's terrible.  Look, I like social media and I follow certain celebrities but I don't think that we are "owed" something just because a celebrity has a platform from which to speak.  

Edited June 11, 2021 by kiddo82

[JustHereForFood]

2 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

And I hadn't heard that about Elizabeth Olsen either but that's terrible.  Look, I like social media and I follow certain celebrities but I don't care for how some people feel that they are "owed" something just because a celebrity has a platform from which to speak.  

Seriously that is messed up. I don't have social media despite being a millenial and if I somehow ended up being a celebrity, I would have to be dragged kicking and screaming into it. What even is the point, if they don't get to choose what they post and how they word it? I thought the point was to get more insight into said person's thoughts and opinions, not some PR BS that has to be analyzed from all angles first for fear that it will now meet some "fan"'s expectations.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Hope I’m on the right track with my contribution here: 

So I just started my second rewatch of Glee. I’m in my mid 30s so this may be where the disconnect is coming from. But I’m also on the Glee Reddit and for the past week the posts have been almost nothing but tributes to Naya and Cory and I think the borderline obsession with them and worship is unhealthy. I just cannot relate to fans who are struggling so much with their passings and acting like Naya and Cory are their friends. You didn’t know them. They are actors who played fictional characters on a fictional show. Yet their fans act like they have it just as hard as the cast does when mourning them.

Why can you just not mention the anniversary of their passing and move on? It just seems kind of concerning to me that so many Glee fans have this unhealthy fixation on their deaths and posting tributes and mourning like they lost best friends.

I guess I just don’t understand people who identify with fictional characters so strongly that they do this stuff, or passive aggressively tear down fans who don’t like their favorite character. (I’m convinced the latter is happening to me right now and it’s kind of upsetting and annoying at the same time.) It’s just fiction at the end of the day. I think sometimes we all need to remind ourselves of that. 

[ifionlyknew]

12 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Hope I’m on the right track with my contribution here: 

So I just started my second rewatch of Glee. I’m in my mid 30s so this may be where the disconnect is coming from. But I’m also on the Glee Reddit and for the past week the posts have been almost nothing but tributes to Naya and Cory and I think the borderline obsession with them and worship is unhealthy. I just cannot relate to fans who are struggling so much with their passings and acting like Naya and Cory are their friends. You didn’t know them. They are actors who played fictional characters on a fictional show. Yet their fans act like they have it just as hard as the cast does when mourning them.

Why can you just not mention the anniversary of their passing and move on? It just seems kind of concerning to me that so many Glee fans have this unhealthy fixation on their deaths and posting tributes and mourning like they lost best friends.

I guess I just don’t understand people who identify with fictional characters so strongly that they do this stuff, or passive aggressively tear down fans who don’t like their favorite character. (I’m convinced the latter is happening to me right now and it’s kind of upsetting and annoying at the same time.) It’s just fiction at the end of the day. I think sometimes we all need to remind ourselves of that. 

When a celeb dies if it's someone who's work I have enjoyed I feel sad but I don't grieve for them.  There are of course celeb deaths that have made me go oh no.  Like Luke Perry. Or JFK Jr.  Luke because he was close to my age and died too young. And JFK Jr. because he could have done so much more with his life if  he had lived longer.

[JustHereForFood]

I get that if someone is a huge fan and feels that a celebrity has had a huge influence on their life, then that person can feel as if they lost a friend. Sometimes the celebrities that we like a lot can feel like a friend, even if obviously it is not a reciprocal relationship. But yeah, some people take that to a whole new level, especially IMO in a music industry. When someone has died before I was even born, or was too little to be aware of them, I am not going to act like that was the greatest tragedy ever and a personal loss to me. It was a sad thing, but those happen every day.

[Blergh]

23 hours ago, ifionlyknew said:

When a celeb dies if it's someone who's work I have enjoyed I feel sad but I don't grieve for them.  There are of course celeb deaths that have made me go oh no.  Like Luke Perry. Or JFK Jr.  Luke because he was close to my age and died too young. And JFK Jr. because he could have done so much more with his life if  he had lived longer.

Technically I agree with you but, true 'fession: I have to admit that I DID grieve for Lucy as though I had lost a member of my own family when she died in '89. No, I never actually had met her but since I had watched her from childhood (and irrationally felt that with all the kooky mishaps happening to HER, that somehow she was protecting me from harm on the other side of the screen), I just felt stunned and at a loss when she died.  Yes, I realize that she was a performer playing a character and had no actual 'powers' beyond making me laugh and/or having her characters give me joy and peace (and I had long logically known this as a grown person) but her characters had been such a part of my childhood that I DID have that reaction (and could tell you exactly where I was and what I was doing when I heard the news). 

[Shannon L.]

9 hours ago, Blergh said:

Technically I agree with you but, true 'fession: I have to admit that I DID grieve for Lucy as though I had lost a member of my own family when she died in '89. No, I never actually had met her but since I had watched her from childhood (and irrationally felt that with all the kooky mishaps happening to HER, that somehow she was protecting me from harm on the other side of the screen), I just felt stunned and at a loss when she died.  Yes, I realize that she was a performer playing a character and had no actual 'powers' beyond making me laugh and/or having her characters give me joy and peace (and I had long logically known this as a grown person) but her characters had been such a part of my childhood that I DID have that reaction (and could tell you exactly where I was and what I was doing when I heard the news). 

John Ritter and Robin Williams hit me really, really, hard.  I don't know that I actually grieved for them, but I was shocked and depressed for quite a while.  And, while I don't think my feelings qualify as "stanning" because I'm not going to get nasty towards anyone with a different opinion, even if it does hurt, I'll confess to loving a particular movie so much that it still pains me to watch it knowing that it wasn't nominated for more than one Oscar (and that wasn't even one of the big 5).  I feel so bad for everyone involved, especially after multiple nominations by other guilds and associations.  I didn't even need it to win-just the nominations would have been satisfying.  I've been shocked and irritate over the years at the lack of nominations for certain movies, but I've gotten over it quickly.  Not this time, though.

Edited July 14, 2021 by Shannon L.

[badhaggis]

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

John Ritter and Robin Williams hit me really, really, hard.  I don't know that I actually grieved for them, but I was shocked and depressed for quite a while.  And, while I don't think my feelings qualify as "stanning" because I'm not going to get nasty towards anyone with a different opinion, even if it does hurt, I'll confess to loving a particular movie so much that it still pains me to watch it knowing that it wasn't nominated for more than one Oscar (and that wasn't even one of the big 5).  I feel so bad for everyone involved, especially after multiple nominations by other guilds and associations.  I didn't even need it to win-just the nominations would have been satisfying.  I've been shocked and irritate over the years at the lack of nominations, but I've gotten over it quickly.  Not this time, though.

Alan Rickman and David Bowie hit me pretty hard. I was shocked at both of their deaths. 

Edited July 14, 2021 by badhaggis
clarity

[Enigma X]

1 hour ago, Shannon L. said:

John Ritter and Robin Williams hit me really, really, hard.  I don't know that I actually grieved for them, but I was shocked and depressed for quite a while.  And, while I don't think my feelings qualify as "stanning" because I'm not going to get nasty towards anyone with a different opinion, even if it does hurt, I'll confess to loving a particular movie so much that it still pains me to watch it knowing that it wasn't nominated for more than one Oscar (and that wasn't even one of the big 5).  I feel so bad for everyone involved, especially after multiple nominations by other guilds and associations.  I didn't even need it to win-just the nominations would have been satisfying.  I've been shocked and irritate over the years at the lack of nominations, but I've gotten over it quickly.  Not this time, though.

 

36 minutes ago, badhaggis said:

Alan Rickman and David Bowie hit me pretty hard. I was shocked at both of their deaths. 

Prince, David Bowie, and Chris Cornell were all hard blows for me. 

[Zella]

It's an odd combo of celebrities to mourn, but for me, it was Alan Rickman, Bill Paxton, and Rowdy Roddy Piper.

I was so upset about Paxton that a coworker asked me what was wrong and then she sort of ran away from me while I was trying to tell her because I was so emotional about it. I was a kid of the 90s who also watched a lot of 80s movies, so I just remember seeing him in so many movies that I actually just thought he was in every movie when I was a child. 

[biakbiak]

One celebrity death that hit me surprisingly  hard was Harris Wittels. Coiner or the term humblebrag, comedian, writer, lover of Phish, Pawnee Animal Control employee, host of Foam Corner, mainly because I don’t think I realized how much I loved him until he died. 

[Bastet]

I've cried at a couple of celebrity deaths - Katharine Hepburn and Myrna Loy - even though I didn't know them and they'd lived long, wonderful lives and then deteriorated such that being released from their suffering was a relief (there are far worse things than death).  They were women whose performances touched and entertained me my whole life, who played roles I've watched over and over when in need of comfort, and who were among the few I knew a fair bit about as off-screen people, where I found them just as admirable in their passions, friendships, and activism. 

And there are a few other women I feel the same way about, and know I'll be just as, and possibly more, upset when they die.  (Mary McDonnell and Gillian Anderson, especially - nothing can happen to you any time in the near future!  Life has been hard enough lately.) 

But I don't regard any of that as stanning.  I didn't/won't request bereavement leave, lock myself away with a bottle of vodka, threaten anyone who reacts with, "Eh, condolences to her loved ones, but I couldn't stand her," stalk the funeral/memorial, or anything like that.

Edited July 15, 2021 by Bastet