S02.E11: Zoey’s Extraordinary Double Date

[Sarah 103]

9 hours ago, bros402 said:

I'm wondering how much Don't Stop Me Now and New York State Of Mind cost them? They seem like they could be pricey songs.

I'm guessing this series has an astronomical music budget, and some other element of the show costs significantly less than a typical show. 

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Unfortunately, one of the big weaknesses of this show is creating some kind of project that makes any sort of sense. Remember season 1's SprPoint idea with Leif/Joan that was basically invading people's personal lives, and then the weird phone ideas this season. So a pop-up that apparently needs months of planning is just another one of those ideas.

Is it really invading someone's personal life if the information is already available publically on social media? The Chirp was using what people had already made public on different social media accounts. If you are putting the information out there on a publically viewable social media page for all of the world to see, isn't any kind of privacy argument moot? 

[Lady Calypso]

12 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Is it really invading someone's personal life if the information is already available publically on social media? The Chirp was using what people had already made public on different social media accounts. If you are putting the information out there on a publically viewable social media page for all of the world to see, isn't any kind of privacy argument moot? 

The app itself may not be technically illegal but it's invasive for people who don't consent to having their faces literally scanned by a stranger just to find out information. Just because it's taking public information, it doesn't mean it's a correct app to use on someone who you might just be meeting for the first time. Because, in a few seconds, if you're meeting someone, you won't know just their name, but their place of work, what city they live in, their family members' names, etc. It's a logistical nightmare to some people, especially if some are taking advantage of the product. Not to mention the idea that there could be hackers who use the app for nefarious purposes, such as finding out someone's residence.

Just like the different types of phones this season and why they're not great ideas; not illegal, but not good ideas for various reasons. Look at the real life Google Glass and why that never became a thing.

 

[Guest]

55 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

I'm guessing this series has an astronomical music budget, and some other element of the show costs significantly less than a typical show. 

The show is actually part of a deal between Universal Music and Lionsgate. They have complete access to the Universal Music Library. I’m sure they still have to pay for the right to some of the songs but the music budget is not as high as it would appear. 

 

55 minutes ago, Sarah 103 said:

Is it really invading someone's personal life if the information is already available publically on social media? The Chirp was using what people had already made public on different social media accounts. If you are putting the information out there on a publically viewable social media page for all of the world to see, isn't any kind of privacy argument moot? 

The privacy concerns are more about surveillance aspects. 

[Empress1]

On 5/2/2021 at 11:26 PM, funnygirl said:

Her and Deb singing "Rich Girls" was a highlight for me.

Me too, and I would love a scene of the two of them cutting up on the cruise.

I'm sad about Perry in part because I love his voice, but I appreciated both his and Mo's perspectives (I thought Perry's "I hate that I feel this way" was very honest).

[D Angel]

Despite all the plot setbacks, I'm hoping that S2 E12, Zoey's Extraordinary Session, will put things back on track. From what I've read, it's mostly a flashback of Zoey sharing some personal history with her therapist (hence: "Session"), which had to be from before she had her powers. So they may forego a lot of the heart-song interruptions for regular drama and comedy, perhaps giving Mandy Moore a week off after directing the previous episode.

Peter Gallagher returns but besides that nugget they aren't sharing much. So I suspect the plot line in E12 will be Zoey finally doing some self-examination to discover why she now has this power and what she is supposed to do with it.

Why Zoey? Was it just a random turn of the wheel with her in the MRI machine during the earthquake? Was she chosen by a higher power for some quality she already had? Obviously, her therapist hasn't watched the show for the first two seasons but these seem like reasonable questions he would direct Zoey to ask herself and try to find answers. Her powers don't help her romantic life and they weren't about coping with her dad's illness and death.

I'm feeling kind of manipulated like Simon at this point, seduced with some comedy and the songs and dances, when I had high hopes the show would be about more than that. I rooted and felt for Zoey in S1, but so far this season the themes are haphazard and drifting. Either Zoey is special or she's just a high-functioning schizophrenic. Pick a path. The second half of S2 seems to be heading to a climax for one or the other. For Jane Levy's sake, I hope they make it good.

[dubbel zout]

9 minutes ago, Empress1 said:

(I thought Perry's "I hate that I feel this way" was very honest)

I'm glad he and Mo talked things out. Their split was sad, but better to end things now than to let Perry's issues poison the relationship. Neither of them deserve that.

[ams1001]

56 minutes ago, Dani said:

The show is actually part of a deal between Universal Music and Lionsgate. They have complete access to the Universal Music Library. I’m sure they still have to pay for the right to some of the songs but the music budget is not as high as it would appear. 

I remember reading somewhere that the fact that they are doing their own versions rather than using the originals also affects the cost.

[dubbel zout]

They also rarely sing the entire song, and that likely saves them some money, too.

[ams1001]

33 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

They also rarely sing the entire song, and that likely saves them some money, too.

I got the ZEP version and the original on iTunes and it definitely ends earlier. 

(On a side note, while I like the ZEP scene better than the official video, the original has a nod to "The Yellow Wallpaper" which makes my former English major self happy.)

[formerlyfreedom]

Just a reminder - promo discussion is fine in here. If you want to go deep into speculation on future episode(s), please take it to the spoiler topic. Thank you!

[Sarah 103]

3 hours ago, Dani said:

The show is actually part of a deal between Universal Music and Lionsgate. They have complete access to the Universal Music Library. I’m sure they still have to pay for the right to some of the songs but the music budget is not as high as it would appear. 

That would make sense. In house would mean that it would be less expensive for the songs that Universal Music owns. 

2 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

They also rarely sing the entire song, and that likely saves them some money, too.

That does not save them money. You pay the same if you are using the first verse or the entire song.

3 hours ago, ams1001 said:

I remember reading somewhere that the fact that they are doing their own versions rather than using the originals also affects the cost.

This would be a considerable savings as well. They only have to pay to license the song, not the most popular version of it. It's why Mad Men would sometime use a less popular/famous version of a song (because it was cheaper than using the version that people were most familiar with)

3 hours ago, D Angel said:

Was it just a random turn of the wheel with her in the MRI machine during the earthquake?

That's my guess. It was totally random. We haven't seen evidence of any higher power/supernatural force contacting her about how to use her powers or giving her any kind of assistance. 

 

[Retired at last]

I am really disappointed with this season, as many of you have also said. My problem is that I just don't like Zoey. That makes it impossible fro hope she gets her real love and a happy life. It is great that she is now in therapy and I hope it helps. I hope he tells her she is nowhere near ready to be in any relationship until she deals with her inner issues. That said, I really like Max and I hope he comes back (I am sure he will). And if Zoey is Simon's boss, there is no way she could remain in that position of authority - they should have had him transferred to another supervisor a long time ago. 

Sad to see how few posts there are this season and I would not be surprised to see this as the last season. Too bad - it really started strong.

[possibilities]

She treats her lover relationships like jobs, responsibilities she needs to tend to. I've never seen her actually be making it a priority. It's more like she feels obligated because the dudes are waiting. It's not that she doesn't like or feel attraction, but she's always found other things more compelling. I think she should just own it and tell them she's not into a relationship of the sort either of them is looking for, and she just wants to live her life and get together with them and hook up from time to time as the mood strikes. They might not want that, and they can say no. But she's not obligated to have a primary relationship focus, either, when she's clearly much more driven by her other missions.

[Cthulhudrew]

6 hours ago, Sarah 103 said:

That's my guess. It was totally random. We haven't seen evidence of any higher power/supernatural force contacting her about how to use her powers or giving her any kind of assistance. 

That would have been in the crossover episode with CBS' "God Friended Me," but y'know, cancellation.

[Quickbeam]

The actor who played Perry had a magnificent voice, I’ll miss that. #sadz

[bros402]

15 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Maybe some of the writers worked on the late, great Better Off Ted. That show always had crazy inventions.

There was one GP writer who was particularly good at thinking those names up. I think originally she was doing it for her own amusement, and it snowballed from there in a hilarious way.

I don't think Zoey has much empathy, TBH. She's very self-involved. It always takes a heart song for her to engage. And it'd be nice to see her be a bit less exasperated when she hears one. 

Times being what they are, all I could think when I saw that scene was, "Holy cow, that's a lot of unmasked people in close proximity." It's going to take a while to get used to it being okay again.

Megan Amram

I think Zoey needs some social skill classes - she knows how to talk to people, but not how get what they are feeling

[ciubecca98]

I don't remember ... but in the short relationship that Max and Zoey had, Zoey told him she loved him?  because I remember Max's I love you but not Zoey's

[Jsage]

18 hours ago, D Angel said:

I'm feeling kind of manipulated like Simon at this point, seduced with some comedy and the songs and dances, when I had high hopes the show would be about more than that. I rooted and felt for Zoey in S1, but so far this season the themes are haphazard and drifting. Either Zoey is special or she's just a high-functioning schizophrenic.the 

I agree that the show is floundering this season. I think season one worked so well because Zoey's dad's illness drove so much storyline. They portrayed Mitch's slow decline and eventual death so realistically that it grounded the show. It balanced out Zoey's "superpower" and the other zany plot lines.

Maybe delving into Zoey's mental health could be the new through line that the show needs? But only if it's done with as much realism and care as Mitch's storyline last year. 

[ciubecca98]

On 4/5/2021 at 04:06, Cthulhudrew said:

 

In un'altra nota, sono d'accordo con uno degli altri poster sul fatto che Zoey è stata troppo pronta a scartare i suoi sentimenti per Max e saltare sulla teoria della "perdita e lutto" del terapeuta. Sospetto che entrambi siano quasi certamente coinvolti, e Zoey sta solo facendo il suo tipico evitamento e rifiuto.

 

Yes, true for me she is clearly in love alone who cannot admit it to herself ... the final scene in which she spoke with Simon made it clear and she told him that she no longer has feelings for Max but they are only friends because she does  said the therapist !!!

[D Angel]

3 hours ago, Jsage said:

Maybe delving into Zoey's mental health could be the new through line that the show needs? But only if it's done with as much realism and care as Mitch's storyline last year. 

Amen to that. Mitch's illness and decline is real. Zoey's power ... not so much. If it is real as opposed to a severe mental health issue, that exploration handled in a realistic way could be quite compelling. Mostly in fiction, supernatural abilities are handled either with cartoonish exaggeration (X-Men) or normalization with virtually no character affect (Star Trek). When done well, such as M. Night Shyamalan's Unbreakable or Logan, the result can be quite compelling.

Zoey's power is certainly real to her and she's received multiple independent confirmations of its authenticity, even though she's the only one experiencing the heart songs directly. She can start the 'realism' with her therapist by sharing that information so he can treat her appropriately. So far, I'd say he knows but is naturally skeptical so he's ignoring this central issue in his recommendations (which are still sound, so far).

Here's an open question: If you believed Zoey about her powers, what would you recommend she do?

[snarktini]

On 5/3/2021 at 8:13 AM, dubbel zout said:

Same here. Which makes me wonder if Mo will get together with Brad. Those two really hit it off.

What I like about that idea is that it would pay off Mo meeting the kids. Why in the world did Mo push for that?! Perry had the right idea -- a relationship should be rock solid before you do that. It bothered me that he was whiny about that. If Mo started hanging out with Brad, as a friend or lover, then at least that would dovetail.

On 5/3/2021 at 2:36 PM, chaifan said:

Pop ups - yep, I agree with others here... this makes no sense as the whole point of pop ups is that they are temporary.  A weekend, maybe a week, mayyybeee a month.  But certainly not long enough to fully move, sublet an apartment, etc.

I think it's not really that a popup needs so long...it's that Rose and Max want a chance to stay together and solidify their relationship. He doesn't have to sublet anything or fully move...he's just going to crash with Rose and keep paying the rent for his empty apartment. That said, it also might take more than a week to scope out the local region, lock in a suitable location, make sure your business would work locally, and get contracts in place. Popups pop up in a day but they aren't planned in a day in a whole new city.

On 5/4/2021 at 8:09 AM, rejnel said:

Totally agree. I adore Mo, and I love that people love, accept, and fall in love with him easily in the world of the show. But I’m glad they’ve addressed that there is fear and unease about gender fluidity. And especially having a likable character talk about it with great reflection, not just some random idiot being overtly phobic or hostile. 

The question was raised, why introduce Perry just to have it end this soon? (Assuming it does, officially.) I agree, this is why. There's a lot of fairytale-ness to the show, and I like it that way, but in reality Mo would have a harder time. And I live in SF.

There's another reason why they might have introduced Perry, and that's to set up Mo's growth beyond fun relationships to complex ones. Mo initially didn't want to date a parent but explored it.

[BonnieD]

for some reason my recording cut out just as Perry was giving his big speech to Mo. What happened? Why the breakup? Fill me in please.

[ciubecca98]

42 minutes ago, BonnieD said:

for some reason my recording cut out just as Perry was giving his big speech to Mo. What happened? Why the breakup? Fill me in please.

if I understand correctly why he still cannot accept his situation and what other people may think ... If you can watch it in streaming because there is the final scene between Zoey and Max that is a tearjerker and it was inevitable that sooner or later  Max ....

[Guest]

19 hours ago, snarktini said:

The question was raised, why introduce Perry just to have it end this soon? (Assuming it does, officially.) I agree, this is why. There's a lot of fairytale-ness to the show, and I like it that way, but in reality Mo would have a harder time. And I live in SF.

My problem is less that it ended quickly but that the show didn’t do the proper setup for the actual breakup. If they had broken up because Mo wasn’t comfortable with the kids or because Perry felt he was to similar to his ex it would have worked better based on what we saw. 
In a way it reminds of the racism episode in that it felt too contained in a way I usually associate with a “very special episode”. This show has a bad habit of getting me invested in plots and relationships and then rushing the ending. 

Edited May 7, 2021 by Guest

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, ciubecca98 said:

if I understand correctly why he still cannot accept his situation and what other people may think ... If you can watch it in streaming because there is the final scene between Zoey and Max that is a tearjerker and it was inevitable that sooner or later  Max ....

It's a little more complex than that. Perry pointed out that he is very masculine - deep voice (I love his voice, it's so sexy to me), firefighter, ex-football player (I think?). He struggled with coming out but kind of had an easier time once he did because he's so masculine. Mo, as we know, is not. He's a gender-nonconforming gay man and I think he always presents in feminine clothes, makeup, and wig - I think the only time we've seen him in man's clothes is when he was in church last season, and if I recall correctly, the point of that episode was that he wasn't out at church then. Perry is concerned that the privilege he's had as a masculine gay man will be threatened by Mo (which is probably a reasonable assertion). It's very layered. As a Black gay man, Perry has very little privilege so I can understand wanting to hold onto it, but at the same time, that privilege is rooted in homophobia - which he recognizes, which is why he hates that he feels the way he does.

Edited May 6, 2021 by Empress1

[HappyBerry]

2 hours ago, Empress1 said:

It's a little more complex than that. Perry pointed out that he is very masculine - deep voice (I love his voice, it's so sexy to me), firefighter, ex-football player (I think?). He struggled with coming out but kind of had an easier time once he did because he's so masculine. Mo, as we know, is not. He's a gender-nonconforming gay man and I think he always presents in feminine clothes, makeup, and wig - I think the only time we've seen him in man's clothes is when he was in church last season, and if I recall correctly, the point of that episode was that he wasn't out at church then. Perry is concerned that the privilege he's had as a masculine gay man will be threatened by Mo (which is probably a reasonable assertion). It's very layered. As a Black gay man, Perry has very little privilege so I can understand wanting to hold onto it, but at the same time, that privilege is rooted in homophobia - which he recognizes, which is why he hates that he feels the way he does.

That said, I still don't entirely understand why they broke up. Mo's whole speech was acting like Perry was asking him to change who he was, but Perry did no such thing. I might need to watch it, but to me Perry's speech was very "this is how I feel, but I hate that feeling and really care about you and so I need to work on myself and those feelings" and Mo immediately went into this whole thing about how he wasn't going back to who he was before....but Perry never asked him to or implied that's what he wanted. I can understand Mo breaking up with him and a "come find me again if you figure it out" though.

[dubbel zout]

I think the relationship ended because neither of them wanted Perry's issues to overwhelm them. Mo didn't want to have to go through all that stuff again while Perry works it out (or not). It didn't seem to me that Mo was forever closing the door on them getting back together, so who knows? They may reunite.

[possibilities]

If someone tells you they're not comfortable with how you are, even if they feel bad about it, would you want to date them? When you've struggled so hard to be out and happy with yourself? I sure wouldn't.

[dubbel zout]

Maybe. At least Perry knows what his issues are and wants to work on them.

[shapeshifter]

22 hours ago, Dani said:

My problem is less that it ended quickly but that the show didn’t do the proper setup for the actual breakup.

From my experience and perspective, there was a lot more explanation to the break up of this short-term relationship than any of mine. But those were in my late teens and 20s. Are 30- and 40-somethings (and older) more chatty about break ups? Isn't "ghosting" a popular term for a reason? 
No. I'm not bitter. Why do you ask? 😉

[Empress1]

12 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Maybe. At least Perry knows what his issues are and wants to work on them.

I can appreciate that but I wouldn't want him working on them on my time. In Mo's shoes, I'd have told Perry to work on his issues, and if he comes to a place of understanding, great, but I would treat this as a breakup, with all that entails, and that means I might not be available if and when he comes to that place of understanding. Because what if he doesn't? What if Perry goes to therapy or whatever other steps he takes and he ends up saying "I just can't accept you as you are." The end result is the same, except Mo has logged more time - time he could have spent with someone who already appreciates him as he is. It doesn't really serve Mo to wait around for Perry.

[HappyBerry]

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

If someone tells you they're not comfortable with how you are, even if they feel bad about it, would you want to date them? When you've struggled so hard to be out and happy with yourself? I sure wouldn't.

Oh no. I don't blame Mo for breaking up with Perry over it at all. I just didn't understand the need for the whole dramatic monologe about not going back to where he was, but that was never even part of the discussion. I guess it's possible I missed some subtext in what Perry was saying, but to me he sure seemed to know the issue was him and not expect change from Mo. Whatever the reason for the monologue, Alex delivered it beautifully, I teared up a little.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

that means I might not be available if and when he comes to that place of understanding.

That's exactly what I meant when I originally wrote:

21 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

 It didn't seem to me that Mo was forever closing the door on them getting back together, so who knows? They may reunite.

I never suggested Perry should work out his issues while he's still with Mo. That's unfair to both of them, especially Mo. But that doesn't mean they can't ever get back together.

[Clanstarling]

On 5/2/2021 at 7:03 PM, ams1001 said:

I liked the song in the waiting room. Or maybe I just relate to it a little too much...

It's very much a pandemic relatable song, isn't it?

On 5/2/2021 at 9:52 PM, Dani said:

The moment with Leif and Tobin jumping up and down was adorable. 

I thought it was sweet too.

On 5/3/2021 at 6:43 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

In theory, I was fine with Max doing a pop up in New York but I don't know why he needs to move there for a month or longer. There are plenty of pop ups that are for a weekend, especially when they're out of towners.

With their concept, there's a lot of work that needs to be done beforehand - making agreements with the restaurants which will be on the "menu", creating a new app just for the New York area they'll be "popping up" in. It'll be a revision of the existing app, but will still take time. I think that initial set up itself will take a month to do.

On 5/3/2021 at 2:36 PM, chaifan said:

Also, would a casino really send you out with enough cash to fill a suitcase?  No.  Just no.  I mean, it was funny with Maggie pulling cash out of every nook and cranny of the greenhouse, but that was just so unrealistic.

My take was that all that money was from a number of different visits, so she wouldn't have taken great stacks of it home each time.

On 5/3/2021 at 7:11 PM, Cthulhudrew said:

I actually thought- rather than it being Mo's genderfluid identity- Perry's problem was going to be that he ended up with someone just like his Ex-husband,

I thought so too. I did like what they did with it though. I suspect we haven't seen the last of Perry - or maybe that's my hope. Because I absolutely love his voice.

23 hours ago, HappyBerry said:

Oh no. I don't blame Mo for breaking up with Perry over it at all. I just didn't understand the need for the whole dramatic monologe about not going back to where he was, but that was never even part of the discussion. I guess it's possible I missed some subtext in what Perry was saying, but to me he sure seemed to know the issue was him and not expect change from Mo. Whatever the reason for the monologue, Alex delivered it beautifully, I teared up a little.

Even though Perry wasn't asking Mo to change, at least out loud, I think Mo needed to relate his journey and underscore his line in the sand when it came to people being uncomfortable with the way he is.  He knows Perry still has far to go on his own journey if he ever wants to be comfortable with someone like Mo. At least that's the way I took it, and as you say, it was delivered beautifully.

I liked that they finally chose a song that was in Mary Steenburgen's range. It makes such a difference. As a mediocre singer myself, there are some songs I can nail, because they're in my range.

Edited May 8, 2021 by Clanstarling

[ams1001]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

It's very much a pandemic relatable song, isn't it?

It was very much relatable before the pandemic, for me at least (unfortunately). I had never heard it before (I don't listen to a lot of current radio so I almost never know the more recent songs)...now I have two versions of it on my ipod. 🙃

[Clanstarling]

32 minutes ago, ams1001 said:

It was very much relatable before the pandemic, for me at least (unfortunately). I had never heard it before (I don't listen to a lot of current radio so I almost never know the more recent songs)...now I have two versions of it on my ipod. 🙃

For me too, but now I can put it on the pandemic and share it with everyone else. :) I hadn't heard it before either.

[ItCouldBeWorse]

On 5/4/2021 at 11:11 AM, Dani said:

Based on what we saw Simon was keeping he dad’s death a secret. Zoey and Max had no clue. Simon was putting on a facade of the happy, not a care in the world guy. The dichotomy between how he appeared to the world and what Zoey heard was emphasized in the pilot. Some of their earliest scenes was him marveling at how she alone saw him clearly. 

And even if other people had known that his Dad had died, it was the fact that he committed suicide that was especially difficult for Simon.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Simon and Rose sing "Don't Stop Me Now" by Queen

 

[Trini]

I mean, I kinda knew Jane Levy is tiny, but I guess I didn't realize she was 'casually throw up on your shoulders' tiny!

[ETA:] They explained that Zoey is having trouble dealing with loss, but she still was overreacting to Max going to New York. Like, it's not permanent - it's just for a few weeks (a month?). It was just more bizarre than usual.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Trini

[dubbel zout]

8 hours ago, Trini said:

ETA:] They explained that Zoey is having trouble dealing with loss, but she still was overreacting to Max going to New York. Like, it's not permanent - it's just for a few weeks (a month?). It was just more bizarre than usual.

Zoey is kind of a drama queen.