S17.E13: Good as Hell

[30 Helens]

It took forever to get there, but seeing Meredith and Derek together, really interacting and not just shouting to each other across a sand dune, was nice. Can’t say I’ll miss the beach, though.

I knew Jo was going to win in the end, but I didn’t think Bailey was wrong for saying “no”. I liken the situation to someone signing up for the army. They sign a contract, expect it’s going to go a certain way, then find themselves in the middle of a war. They can’t just change their mind and decide they’d rather be in the Coast Guard, instead. They are needed where they are. Once the war is over and their contract is up, then they can go join the Coast Guard. In this case, the hospital is also in a war and Jo signed up for battle. She should have stuck it out. There will still be babies, later.

It may have worked out for the patient, but Linc conferring with him in the open, where anyone could eavesdrop and interrupt, was all kinds of wrong. I would be pretty startled if I were talking to my doctor and some random person appeared over her shoulder, staring and asking questions. HIPAA, anyone?

Ugh, it looks like Owen and Teddi are on the road to reconciliation. At least I can ignore them in unison— it’s more efficient that way.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

4 hours ago, 30 Helens said:

It may have worked out for the patient, but Linc conferring with him in the open, where anyone could eavesdrop and interrupt, was all kinds of wrong. I would be pretty startled if I were talking to my doctor and some random person appeared over her shoulder, staring and asking questions. HIPAA, anyone?

Linc was in the bedroom at home when he was talking to his patient on zoom. Amelia is the one who barged in and interrupted because Teddy hadn't called her back about Meredith.

[dmc]

12 hours ago, LexieLily said:

I thought the beach conversation about Amelia was rude. Amelia was admittedly a mess when she was younger and I'm sure a lot of that can be traced back to her father's death and how her sisters treated her and saw her always as the fuck-up of the family, but she's worked hard and she has a steady life these days with a child and a man that loves her and cares about her. Meredith (and Derek, in that conversation, considering he has been supposedly checking in on everyone) sounded judgmental of the woman that has done more onscreen to raise Meredith's children than Meredith has, along with Maggie. 

I don't know exactly why it bothered me so much, but it bothered me that Teddy was part of the scene when they were all crowded outside the room when Zola was in Meredith's room talking to her. Those people were there to support Zola while she was visiting her mother. There was Aunt Maggie, Aunt Amelia, (Grandpa) Richard, and Bailey, the four current people that are closest to Meredith and that Zola herself has relationships with. (No doubt if things were different Uncle Alex and Aunt Cristina would have been there, too.) Teddy was woefully out of place and has no relationship with Zola.

Yeah it was rude but Meredith is always rude about Amelia.  And she is currently has a new baby and is raising Meredith’s family.  

[Flynn]

How many «leaves of absences» is Jackson going to take? First the woods, now just driving away in the rain. I’m sorry, but in the real world you can’t just drop work and disappear.

[ams1001]

5 minutes ago, Flynn said:

How many «leaves of absences» is Jackson going to take? First the woods, now just driving away in the rain. I’m sorry, but in the real world you can’t just drop work and disappear.

No wonder they're short on surgeons.

[MarylandGirl]

2 hours ago, Flynn said:

How many «leaves of absences» is Jackson going to take? First the woods, now just driving away in the rain. I’m sorry, but in the real world you can’t just drop work and disappear.

Of course, there was also Derek in the woods. Then all the surgeons heading after him and staying...

[KaveDweller]

3 hours ago, Flynn said:

How many «leaves of absences» is Jackson going to take? First the woods, now just driving away in the rain. I’m sorry, but in the real world you can’t just drop work and disappear.

I agree about the real world, but isn't Jackson considered a part owner, because of his role in the Harper Avery/Catherine Fox Foundation? He can probably get away with whatever he wants.

Although....how long has he been gone? If it is just a week or so, wouldn't he use vacation days?

[Anela]

1 hour ago, KaveDweller said:

I agree about the real world, but isn't Jackson considered a part owner, because of his role in the Harper Avery/Catherine Fox Foundation? He can probably get away with whatever he wants.

Although....how long has he been gone? If it is just a week or so, wouldn't he use vacation days?

Are Arizona, Callie, and others still part-owners, too? 

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

Are Arizona, Callie, and others still part-owners, too? 

I think so, I don't remember a storyline about them selling their shares.

I know Christina gave her seat on the board to Alex when she left. I don't remember what (if anything) he did it when he left.

[LittlePeas3]

53 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I think so, I don't remember a storyline about them selling their shares.

I know Christina gave her seat on the board to Alex when she left. I don't remember what (if anything) he did it when he left.

I think Cristina left her shares to Alex too. I also think he left them to Jo in his ridiculous letter to her too. 

[ginger90]

9 hours ago, LittlePeas3 said:

I think Cristina left her shares to Alex too. I also think he left them to Jo in his ridiculous letter to her too. 

(The last word is, goodbye, it got cut off)

Part if the letter:

[MarylandGirl]

Ugh, reading that part of the letter makes me angry at Alex (and how the writers ended his arc) all over again!

 

[geauxaway]

17 minutes ago, MarylandGirl said:

Ugh, reading that part of the letter makes me angry at Alex (and how the writers ended his arc) all over again!

 

Me too.  It’s so bad.  Embarrassingly bad.  

[dmc]

On 4/25/2021 at 8:38 AM, ginger90 said:

(The last word is, goodbye, it got cut off)

Part if the letter:

I chuckled when he left Jo a board seat he never wanted.  
 

I know we will never get a clear story on Alex leaving but something happened that the actor didn’t even get a wrap up episode 

[AzraeltheCat]

On 4/23/2021 at 9:15 PM, LexieLily said:

Yes, I noticed that too. I found the conversation about Amelia annoying. Meredith saying kids get stronger after struggling when losing a parent and Derek saying "or they're Amelia" and they both laugh. Glad they got a chuckle from a 5 year old watching her father die then having addiction issues later in life. At least Meredith did say she's doing better now.

On 4/23/2021 at 3:14 PM, statsgirl said:

Meredith handwaved it, saying 'Amelia's doing find now." Yes Meredith, the recovering addict and total neurotic is doing fine now, thanks to the pure luck in finding Linc.

I have to admit that when Mer first said that Derek was fine after his dad died, I screamed at the tv "Well, Amelia wasn't!"  So I was glad that Derek said that, though laughter was probably not appropriate. And while Amelia is a great surgeon and in a good place/relationship emotionally, JUST last week she was talking about the COVID pressures and isolation making her want to get high.  So she still struggles.  So, yeah, Mer, death of a parent can have long-lasting repercussions.  Plus, as others noted, Derek and his sister still had a mother! 

On 4/23/2021 at 3:14 PM, statsgirl said:

Earlier Derek said that as he was in the hospital after the accident, he was aware that his doctors were bungling his treatment. It always bugs me that Meredith didn't call Amelia when she saw what condition Derek was in. Not only Amelia have the right to be there because she's his sister, she is an amazing neurosurgeon, as Koracick said in this episode, and maybe she could have saved Derek. The blame for hangs on Meredith.

If I remember correctly, at some point after Derek's death, Amelia and Mer actually had a big fight about this, or at least partially. Amelia said maybe she could've worked a miracle and Mer said it was too late, and that's why turned off life support... but never gave A a chance to consult or at least say goodbye to Derek.

[LexieLily]

33 minutes ago, AzraeltheCat said:

If I remember correctly, at some point after Derek's death, Amelia and Mer actually had a big fight about this, or at least partially. Amelia said maybe she could've worked a miracle and Mer said it was too late, and that's why turned off life support... but never gave A a chance to consult or at least say goodbye to Derek.

If this was real life I would imagine that would have been a dealbreaker for any sort of relationship/friendship for Meredith/Amelia in the future, or at least it would have for me. I don't know how I would have gotten over how selfish Meredith was at that time, not only to Amelia but Derek's mother and sisters. But I understand why Amelia stayed, because given how Meredith ran from Seattle after Derek's death for a year and didn't contact anyone until Ellis was secretly born, she might have (correctly) deduced that keeping on Meredith's good side was the only way to guarantee that she stayed in her nephew and nieces' lives.

[FnkyChkn34]

On 4/24/2021 at 4:15 PM, Flynn said:

How many «leaves of absences» is Jackson going to take? First the woods, now just driving away in the rain. I’m sorry, but in the real world you can’t just drop work and disappear.

You can when you own the hospital.  The Fox Foundation is the majority owner, and he is their representative.  (Or at least that was how it was set up after the plane crash; maybe it's changed.)  Plus, he's a plastic surgeon at the height of the pandemic - all elective surgeries have been cancelled.  He'd only be needed in emergency burns or reconstructions, and even though we don't see it, I'm sure there is someone filling in for him to do those.

But all of them take a leave of absence all the time.  How many has Bailey taken?  Owen and April went to the Middle East.  Meredith disappeared after Derek died.  Is Link taking paternity leave now, and how long has it been?  Even the best paternity leave plans don't allow dads to be gone for more than 6 weeks... 

[iMonrey]

And once again we have a surgeon in the operating room despite the fact that she is visibly flipping out. Last week it was Maggie and this week it was Teddy. Not to mention Amelia, out of practice and starting to doubt herself, standing over some poor guy's noggin with a scalpel in her hand. Because, gosh darn, it's more important we buck up these cupcakes than save a few lives, right? Good Lord. If I ever wind up in this hospital, someone just pull the plug and get it over with.

I think the whole beach gimmick with Meredith wore out its welcome after the third or fourth episode, frankly, but once she actually woke up the first time they shouldn't have gone back to it. Last week she was unconscious again and more beach for two weeks. At this point I just feel like they're jerking us around. Are we sure she's not going to fall back to sleep and wind up on the beach again??

[Shellie]

I think they set up the beach scenes well in the sense that those scenes work for any belief system. I choose to believe the beach is a place in the afterlife, or a meeting place between the afterlife and here. I chose to believe the scene including Richard and Bailey happened because Meredith was aware they are at the hospital caring for her and they are her people. She was connecting with them briefly. They also were trying to reach her subconsciousness and succeeding to an extent.

Others can easily believe these are hallucinations.

[DEL901]

6 hours ago, FnkyChkn34 said:

You can when you own the hospital.  The Fox Foundation is the majority owner, and he is their representative.  (Or at least that was how it was set up after the plane crash; maybe it's changed.)  Plus, he's a plastic surgeon at the height of the pandemic - all elective surgeries have been cancelled.  He'd only be needed in emergency burns or reconstructions, and even though we don't see it, I'm sure there is someone filling in for him to do those.

But all of them take a leave of absence all the time.  How many has Bailey taken?  Owen and April went to the Middle East.  Meredith disappeared after Derek died.  Is Link taking paternity leave now, and how long has it been?  Even the best paternity leave plans don't allow dads to be gone for more than 6 weeks... 

Not necessarily.   My male US colleague got 3 months paid paternity leave.   We work for a large Canadian bank which decided it was only fair to give US dads the same as they give Canadian dads who work for the Bank.  

[MrWhyt]

On 4/23/2021 at 1:33 PM, izabella said:

I block out as much of Teddy's story lines as I possibly can, so would you please remind me what she is recovering from and why she is barely keeping it together? 

 

the collapse of her personal life and y'know the whole "everyone is dying all the time with no end in sight" pandemic thing.

[madmax]

On 4/22/2021 at 11:20 PM, pennben said:

Sometimes when we visit those in hospitals, it’s to give them permission to go. Sometimes, it’s to remind them to fight. I personally don’t know the exhaustion from fighting a horrible injury or disease, nor how exhausting and overwhelming it can be. Right now, I think I’d want folks on both sides of the universe to tell me to come back. Someday, though......

I gave both my brother and my father permission to go.  My brother was comatose and riddled with cancer.  He lived with my father and, in my mind, he didn't want to leave my dad.  I told him we would take care of my dad, that my brother could go in peace and he died later that night.  It was Christmas Eve.  With my father, who also had cancer, kidney failure and a just broken hip, I told him he could go peacefully and be with his children that had passed before him, all his brothers and sister that passed before him and his mother.  I told him we would be fine without him.  He died while I held his hand.

On 4/23/2021 at 9:15 PM, LexieLily said:

I don't know exactly why it bothered me so much, but it bothered me that Teddy was part of the scene when they were all crowded outside the room when Zola was in Meredith's room talking to her. 

Teddy was Meredith's primary doctor.  She had every right to be there.

On 4/24/2021 at 4:15 PM, Flynn said:

How many «leaves of absences» is Jackson going to take? First the woods, now just driving away in the rain. I’m sorry, but in the real world you can’t just drop work and disappear.

As many as the owner of the hospital wants.

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

Last week she was unconscious again and more beach for two weeks. At this point I just feel like they're jerking us around. Are we sure she's not going to fall back to sleep and wind up on the beach again??

That's the first thing I thought.  Why were they so sure that she would stay awake this time?

 

I'm hoping we can get past the pandemic soon.  Many other shows, even medical dramas, have done it.  I don't want to see Meredith's long road to recovery or, more likely, her up and operating a week after waking up.

[FnkyChkn34]

3 hours ago, DEL901 said:

Not necessarily.   My male US colleague got 3 months paid paternity leave.   We work for a large Canadian bank which decided it was only fair to give US dads the same as they give Canadian dads who work for the Bank.  

Wow, that's awesome!  I haven't heard of a US-based company doing that... ever.  Most give nothing to fathers; mothers are lucky if they can get 4-6 weeks.

[statsgirl]

I think that Linc and Amelia are not on parental leave, just avoiding working in the hospital because of Covid. Amelia has been in before this season for an operation. Linc seems to be working from home.

It's different in other countries. Most have paid maternity leave with Estonia winning at 86 weeks. Canada has a one year paid maternity leave which you can spread out to 18 months if you take less per month. There is also 5 weeks of paternity leave but I think some of that is traded off with the maternity leave.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/16/u-s-lacks-mandated-paid-parental-leave/

[DEL901]

6 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I think that Linc and Amelia are not on parental leave, just avoiding working in the hospital because of Covid. Amelia has been in before this season for an operation. Linc seems to be working from home.

It's different in other countries. Most have paid maternity leave with Estonia winning at 86 weeks. Canada has a one year paid maternity leave which you can spread out to 18 months if you take less per month. There is also 5 weeks of paternity leave but I think some of that is traded off with the maternity leave.

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2019/12/16/u-s-lacks-mandated-paid-parental-leave/

What’s ironic is that the longer maternity leave was, in some way better for companies because then it made sense to hire a contractor to cover the leave.   Re maternity vs paternity leave in Canada.... a certain amount is categorized as parental leave and that is an either or situation.   I know several male coworkers whose wives went back to work after 16 weeks and they took the rest of the year off.  And yes, jobs (or equivalent) are held, although there may be an exception for very small companies.  

I know Jackson is an owner/rep of the foundation, but Catherine doesn’t strike means someone who would be happy with her child taking advantage of the Avery name that way.  

[MarylandGirl]

12 hours ago, madmax said:

I'm hoping we can get past the pandemic soon.  Many other shows, even medical dramas, have done it.  I don't want to see Meredith's long road to recovery or, more likely, her up and operating a week after waking up.

I hope for this, too. Maybe show a bit of her recovery, like a sort of time lapse thing. They did that with...something in the past. Like "2 weeks," show some scenes from her getting rehab (I've read this is needed for someone who's been on a ventilator for a long time). Then "1 month," then "2 months," she's returning to work (or whatever a reasonable timetable is), then we can jump to vaccines are available, with scene of doctors getting their vaccine (that could potentially end the episode?). Like all of that would be in a single episode. Then, for next episode, jump to present-day, when all adults are eligible to be vaccinated.

[limecoke]

Amelia: “Why’d you bring Zola?

Maggie: “I couldn’t think of a better idea.”

Maggie, you didn’t think of it. Winston did. You were dead against it.  Even in the same episode they can’t keep their stories straight.

Hey, Meredith, we’re all tired. 
Move on, show, for the love, move on.