The Hunger Games Series

[Eyes High]

I know much has been made of Peeta and Katniss' chemistry or lack thereof, but whatever it was supposed to be, Peeta/Katniss really worked for me in this movie. I saw the tenderness, the tentative connection, the emotion in things unspoken. It really worked for me. Their relationship at the end felt truly earned. The relative lack of physical contact between them didn't bother me; I watch too many Korean dramas and Victorian period pieces for that to be a problem for me.

 

I loved Donald Sutherland in this so much. That conversation where he addresses Katniss as an equal for the first time? That surprised and triumphant laugh when Katniss killed Coin? That look that passed between Katniss and Snow just before he died? Perfection.

 

Coin's Poncho Cape of Villainy was oddly hilarious to me. She's not a proper villain until she's rocking the poncho!

 

I also loved Johanna. Jena Malone is so perfect for the role. Her Johanna was razor-sharp, unsparing, fierce, unpleasant, even cruel...and fucking amazing. I'll miss that magnificent bitch. I've seen some reviews suggesting she was underused, but a little Johanna goes a long way.

 

Prim's death moment was a little ridiculous. It was like "Hi, Prim! Bye, Prim!"

 

I giggled a bit at the Buttercup cat actor being completely unfazed by Katniss' outburst. Cats: completely over your bullshit, always.

 

Also Katniss, while no visible aging was seen Jennifer sold me a Katniss that had lived through a horror and came out on the other side.

 

I guess you could fanwank that whatever weird cosmetic treatments they did to the tributes delayed the normal aging process (not that that would explain Mags, but oh well).

Edited November 25, 2015 by Eyes High

[absnow54]

I just got back from it. I don't know if it was just a cosmic coincidence that it was released right when the Paris attacks and all the fallout concerning Syrian refugees happened, but so much of the plot couldn't help but make think of what was going on. Especially the issue of civilian casualties. God, the bombing of those Capitol kids was so brutal to watch.

I cringed when Katniss and Gale posed as refuges to get into the Presiden'ts mansion. Such horrible, unfortunate timing.

[topanga]

 

 

I also loved Johanna. Jena Malone is so perfect for the role. Her Johanna was razor-sharp, unsparing, fierce, unpleasant, even cruel...and fucking amazing. I'll miss that magnificent bitch. I've seen some reviews suggesting she was underused, but a little Johanna goes a long way.

Prim's death moment was a little ridiculous. It was like "Hi, Prim! Bye, Prim!"

I giggled a bit at the Buttercup cat actor being completely unfazed by Katniss' outburst. Cats: completely over your bullshit, always.

ITA about Johanna. During the hospital scene, I was so impressed that Jena Malone has matured into a great adult actress. I remember her being the annoying (but effective) teenager in Step-Mom...Wow, she's 31? (I just looked her up on IMDB). Looks much younger. 

 

And that was some great cat training. I didn't know cats could be trained. And I know there was some creative filming in editing in that scene, but there definitely were moments when JL was yelling at the cat, and s/he just sat there. Occasionally, the cat would look off into the distance (at a trainer, perhaps?), but I thought that only worked with dogs. And babies. Cats usually don't listen to commands from people. 

[truthaboutluv]

I know much has been made of Peeta and Katniss' chemistry or lack thereof, but whatever it was supposed to be, Peeta/Katniss really worked for me in this movie. I saw the tenderness, the tentative connection, the emotion in things unspoken. It really worked for me. Their relationship at the end felt truly earned. The relative lack of physical contact between them didn't bother me

 

 

Absolutely agree. As I said after Mockingjay Part I, I saw more chemistry and connection between Katniss and Peeta than any of the films and he was barely in it. I think from the moment Peeta was captured by the Capitol, it really was over for the barely existent triangle. Hell in the books you can say it was over the moment he and Katniss went back into the Games in Catching Fire. I will forever love Collins' PG-13 description of Katniss being clearly horny as hell when she and Peeta made out on the beach. 

 

I also loved Johanna. Jena Malone is so perfect for the role. Her Johanna was razor-sharp, unsparing, fierce, unpleasant, even cruel...and fucking amazing. I'll miss that magnificent bitch.

 

 

I absolutely loved her, "feel free to take offense to any of this..." while she's throwing snarky jab after jab at Katniss.

[Brn2bwild]

Really liked the movie, but one thing bugged: during the scene where Katniss and Gale are posing as refugees, why weren't they better disguised?  In the book, didn't Katniss have makeup and colored hair?  It would have been so easy to obscure her appearance.

[tennisgurl]

Saw it finally, and while it was a little slow here and there, thought it was really good. Really strong acting, even from the actors who didn't get a whole lot to do. I read a lot of reviews that seemed all shocked by how dark the movie was, which just baffled me. Every one of the Hunger Games movies have been dark! The whole series started with a murder reality show where kids were forced to kill each other while rich people laughed about it! Its always been grim, why are you just now noticing? 

 

Although we still didn't get nearly enough of him, Finnick is still my favorite character, and he continued to be the best in what screen time he had (being a badass, taking care of Peeta, laughing at the capital and their love of drama). Even though I was disappointed they cut out a lot of his stuff, I am really happy they gave him a better death scene than in the book. In the book, he just kind of randomly died. Here, at least he got to go down fighting. 

[Demented Daisy]

Really liked the movie, but one thing bugged: during the scene where Katniss and Gale are posing as refugees, why weren't they better disguised?  In the book, didn't Katniss have makeup and colored hair?  It would have been so easy to obscure her appearance.

 

For the same reason, I expect, that Harry and Hermione were hardly ever under the Invisibility Cloak in Deathly Hallows part 1 -- so the audience can see and recognize them.  I doubt TPTB have a very high opinion of the audience.

[Danny Franks]

I think the word I'd use to describe this movie, and this franchise, is anaemic. It takes the concept of ritualistic gladiatorial combat leading to rebellion against despotic evil and turns it into something that just lacks the crucial punch and weight. Everything felt like less than the sum of its parts, due to poor narrative choices and uninspired direction.

 

A rebellion that is mostly unseen, because Katniss is just a figurehead and propaganda tool. A love story that mostly exists only because people keep saying it does. A love interest who is as close to worthless as is possible to get and still be in the movie. Not much of the plot made sense, other than as a reason for stuff to happen. Too much of it was left vague and the audience is asked to believe that Katniss, someone who has shown little in the way of good judgement through the series, has the right of it and can act arbitrarily.

 

The one scene that I felt worked was the scene in the tunnels, where they were attacked by the mutts (I think that's what they called them... though not the same as the mutts in the earlier movie, which looked more dog-like). That was genuinely tense and dramatic, and gave hero moments to two or three characters.

 

I do not get the fuss over Peeta, or the guy playing him. My one reaction to him in this movie was to think they should kill him or leave him behind after he murdered their squadmate. He was too big a risk, and it flat out didn't make sense that they would accept his presence. Why is he important to anyone other than Katniss? I'm sure that he made more sense in the book, but in this movie he felt like he existed for no other reason than for Katniss to get that clichéd happy ending.

 

And I do not get the fuss over Jennifer Lawrence. She seems to have two modes: flat and shrieking. I've not been impressed with any of her performances that I've seen, but I suppose powerful PR machines do their work well.

 

The older members of the cast were all decent. Donald Sutherland, Julianne Moore, Woody Harrelson, Philip Seymour Hoffman. They all did well with the material they had. I just wanted more of them and less of the youngsters. I'd much rather have seen Snow and Coin face to face, debating their mutual ruthlessness.

[NoWillToResist]

Really liked the movie, but one thing bugged: during the scene where Katniss and Gale are posing as refugees, why weren't they better disguised?  In the book, didn't Katniss have makeup and colored hair?  It would have been so easy to obscure her appearance.

 

This particularly bothered me since they were coming from a place where the owner literally made herself look like a cat. Rather than discussing the moot love triangle, couldn't people have spent that night changing their hair style/length/colour? Couldn't they have altered their appearance even the slightest? Not even a wig?

 

I also can't recall what flimsy justification was given to allow Peeta along. I think it was to try and improve his PR since Kat was clearly never going to reject him and Coin was using Kat's persona for her own gains? But didn't Plutarch(?) indicate that Coin was losing confidence in Kat's support of her and that Kat was becoming a liability of sorts? So, if that's the case, why send Peeta along? He was mostly hated and viewed as a traitor; he was unstable and put their precious A-team at risk. If she hoped, much like the Capitol, that Peeta would somehow kill her, that's a helluva risk to take because there was nothing stopping him from doing so before their mission had been successful. I have trouble believing that Coin would be so reckless.

 

Pretty much the only thing that I liked about this movie was that the refugees wearing hoods were all un-hooded by the guards before being allowed into Snow's palace. I would have screamed bloody fucking murder if they'd just waved everyone in. That bit actually was a little suspenseful because I did wonder how they'd get out of that situation.

 

I think the word I'd use to describe this movie, and this franchise, is anaemic. It takes the concept of ritualistic gladiatorial combat leading to rebellion against despotic evil and turns it into something that just lacks the crucial punch and weight. Everything felt like less than the sum of its parts, due to poor narrative choices and uninspired direction.

 

A rebellion that is mostly unseen, because Katniss is just a figurehead and propaganda tool. A love story that mostly exists only because people keep saying it does. A love interest who is as close to worthless as is possible to get and still be in the movie. Not much of the plot made sense, other than as a reason for stuff to happen. Too much of it was left vague and the audience is asked to believe that Katniss, someone who has shown little in the way of good judgement through the series, has the right of it and can act arbitrarily.

 

The one scene that I felt worked was the scene in the tunnels, where they were attacked by the mutts (I think that's what they called them... though not the same as the mutts in the earlier movie, which looked more dog-like). That was genuinely tense and dramatic, and gave hero moments to two or three characters.

 

I do not get the fuss over Peeta, or the guy playing him. My one reaction to him in this movie was to think they should kill him or leave him behind after he murdered their squadmate. He was too big a risk, and it flat out didn't make sense that they would accept his presence. Why is he important to anyone other than Katniss? I'm sure that he made more sense in the book, but in this movie he felt like he existed for no other reason than for Katniss to get that clichéd happy ending.

 

And I do not get the fuss over Jennifer Lawrence. She seems to have two modes: flat and shrieking. I've not been impressed with any of her performances that I've seen, but I suppose powerful PR machines do their work well.

 

The older members of the cast were all decent. Donald Sutherland, Julianne Moore, Woody Harrelson, Philip Seymour Hoffman. They all did well with the material they had. I just wanted more of them and less of the youngsters. I'd much rather have seen Snow and Coin face to face, debating their mutual ruthlessness.

 

Ah, DannyFranks, please come sit by me so I don't feel so alone. :)  My husband owes me big time for pulling the 'spousal guilt card' to get me to watch this. I was curious for the first one (I liked Battle Royale and I was told that this was like that) but after watching it, I was all "yeah, I don't care what happens next to any of these people". But I capitulated for the second, flat-out refused to go to the third, and capitulated again for the fourth since at least it was the last one and I wouldn't be asked to watch any more of them. I got tired of hearing Kat say Peeta's name. Made my teeth itch.

 

Honest to God, I really didn't give a fuck about a single character. If some alien beings had appeared at the end and nuked the lot of 'em, I'd have cheered.

 

I hope JL continues to make movies with Bradley Cooper, thus merging their negative spaces into one place that I can easily avoid. I do not understand the appeal of either of them.

Edited November 26, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[Eyes High]

I think the word I'd use to describe this movie, and this franchise, is anaemic. It takes the concept of ritualistic gladiatorial combat leading to rebellion against despotic evil and turns it into something that just lacks the crucial punch and weight.

 

I think it's hard to give the premise its crucial punch and weight when a clear goal appears to have been to minimize the gore to keep the movie rating as low as possible and attract the widest possible audience. "Anemic" seems the logical result of the movie continually pulling its punches to make sure the rating stayed low. They implied as much as they could imply, but that often fell short.

 

Also, as has been discussed upthread, a lot of the uglier aspects of the THG universe were glossed over and prettified, which seems a bit ironic given that so much of the books was devoted to showing the ugliness behind superficial prettiness and juxtaposing the horrors of the tributes' experiences in the arena with their stylists' relentless need to enhance them cosmetically. (I remember one terrifying aside from one of the books where someone tells Katniss that while she was recovering from her injuries, the head honchos wanted to give Katniss breast implants and Haymitch had to argue them down.) Movie Peeta never lost a leg. Finnick prostituting himself was acknowledged briefly. 

 

What bothered me the most of all these changes is that Mockingjay Katniss was physically fucked up by the bombs. She was horrifically scarred. New skin forms, and it's ripped off in her struggle with the guards after assassinating Coin. So it was a little strange to see Katniss at the end looking immaculately gorgeous, and yes, it seemed cheap. I get why they did it, but man.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Eyes High

[bluvelvet]

Coin did send Peeta along with the hopes that he would kill Katniss. There was no mission for him to interrupt by killing her early, remember Katniss made up the whole " I am on a secret mission to kill Snow".  Their only job as a squad was to stay out of danger and shoot propos and if she died while doing that Coin would just use her as a martyr to continue fueling the revolution.  Katniss was never supposed to see any real battle.

 

Killing Peeta would have made sense, even he made that comment when he realized what he did, Katniss wasn't about to do that. One comment Peeta made in the first book/movie was that he wanted to die as himself and not be a piece in their games. If they killed him then and there, that's exactly what would have happened and Katniss couldn't do that to him. Also, not really explained in the movies, Snow knew that if Katniss was forced to kill Peeta it would essentially destroy her because she loved him. In the books Katniss realizes this point and wouldn't give Snow the satisfaction.

[NoWillToResist]

Coin did send Peeta along with the hopes that he would kill Katniss. There was no mission for him to interrupt by killing her early, remember Katniss made up the whole " I am on a secret mission to kill Snow".  Their only job as a squad was to stay out of danger and shoot propos and if she died while doing that Coin would just use her as a martyr to continue fueling the revolution.  Katniss was never supposed to see any real battle.

 

Ah, thanks. I knew something was said about all that, but I couldn't quite recall it.

[Danny Franks]

Honest to God, I really didn't give a fuck about a single character. If some alien beings had appeared at the end and nuked the lot of 'em, I'd have cheered.

 

This. The only character I cared about was Natalie Dormer, and that's just because Natalie Dormer is great. Note, I have no clue what the character was called (nor did I know what Foggy Nelson or Amos from The Expanse were called in this), and apparently she was killed while I had nipped out to go to the toilet. No one else was sympathetic or multi-dimensional enough to be interesting.

 

I think it's hard to give the premise its crucial punch and weight when a clear goal appears to have been to minimize the gore to keep the movie rating as low as possible and attract the widest possible audience. "Anemic" seems the logical result of the movie continually pulling its punches to make sure the rating stayed low. They implied as much as they could imply, but that often fell short.

 

It's not just the avoidance of violence that robs it of punch. It's the actual story itself. The emotions don't feel heavy enough, the characters are too flat, and the narrative choices just don't make sense. Instead of showing the actual rebel attack they just have the main characters arrive after the fact and wander through empty streets, apart from the silly automated pods (although suddenly, enemy troops are able to move freely through the streets that have been taken by the rebels and boobytrapped) that offer up overly complex dangers. It smacks of cheapness, the sort of thing a low-budget sci-fi show would do to avoid paying for extras and CG shots. So the war boils down to about a dozen bad guys in plastic armour and your heroes. And yes, I know Katniss and chums weren't fighting in that battle, but that doesn't mean you should skip showing it entirely.

Edited November 26, 2015 by Danny Franks

[Raja]

 

This. The only character I cared about was Natalie Dormer, and that's just because Natalie Dormer is great. Note, I have no clue what the character was called (nor did I know what Foggy Nelson or Amos from The Expanse were called in this), and apparently she was killed while I had nipped out to go to the toilet. No one else was sympathetic or multi-dimensional enough to be interesting.

 

 

It's not just the avoidance of violence that robs it of punch. It's the actual story itself. The emotions don't feel heavy enough, the characters are too flat, and the narrative choices just don't make sense. Instead of showing the actual rebel attack they just have the main characters arrive after the fact and wander through empty streets, apart from the silly automated pods (although suddenly, enemy troops are able to move freely through the streets that have been taken by the rebels and boobytrapped) that offer up overly complex dangers. It smacks of cheapness, the sort of thing a low-budget sci-fi show would do to avoid paying for extras and CG shots. So the war boils down to about a dozen bad guys in plastic armour and your heroes. And yes, I know Katniss and chums weren't fighting in that battle, but that doesn't mean you should skip showing it entirely.

The enemy is literally at the the gates of the capitol but if can kill the great inspirational one they will quit within sight of total victory. The war shown was beyond the need for propaganda broadcast. The army arrived at the same time as the survivors of the special squad.

 

Perhaps we can head canon that the government forces had some kind of counter booby trap transmitter  but that doesn't explain how nobody thought to cover the tunnels from either side until a surveillance camera caught the Hunger Games champions going down into them

[GaT]

This. The only character I cared about was Natalie Dormer, and that's just because Natalie Dormer is great. Note, I have no clue what the character was called (nor did I know what Foggy Nelson or Amos from The Expanse were called in this), and apparently she was killed while I had nipped out to go to the toilet. No one else was sympathetic or multi-dimensional enough to be interesting. 

 

Cressida (Natalie Dormer) wasn't killed.

[NoWillToResist]

Perhaps we can head canon that the government forces had some kind of counter booby trap transmitter  but that doesn't explain how nobody thought to cover the tunnels from either side until a surveillance camera caught the Hunger Games champions going down into them

 

I seem to recall that there was an announcement that Snow deactivated the booby-traps when they announced that Snow was opening his home to the Capitol's refugees. They don't want to blow up their own people, so they deactivated all the crap. That's why Kat and Gale decided this was their chance to get to Snow.

 

I remember seeing the virtual map of the Capitol and the hundreds upon hundreds of booby traps and thinking "what the fuck? Did they do this when the city was built? Did they do it once the rebellion seemed to be a reality? Who the fuck had the time to make this happen? How did this fly with the citizens of the Capitol whose streets were now lethal? Were the citizens of the Capitol told to stay in their homes to avoid being killed by the traps? Did they all get a map?"

 

I know that they pulled the citizens from the outer ring but those bombs seemed to be ALL over the city, not just the outer edges, so I really didn't understand the mechanics of that. Was this better explained in the books?

Edited November 26, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[Danny Franks]

Cressida (Natalie Dormer) wasn't killed.

 

Huh. Okay. I went to the toilet when they went to the ridiculous cat lady's place, then came back and Katniss and Gale were joining the refugees. I don't recall Cressida (thanks for the name) appearing again. My girlfriend said she was killed.

 

I seem to recall that there was an announcement that Snow deactivated the booby-traps when they announced that Snow was opening his home to the Capitol's refugees. They don't want to blow up their own people, so they deactivated all the crap. That's why Kat and Gale decided this was their chance to get to Snow.

 

I remember seeing the virtual map of the Capitol and the hundreds upon hundreds of booby traps and thinking "what the fuck? Did they do this when the city was built? Did they do it once the rebellion seemed to be a reality? Who the fuck had the time to make this happen? How did this fly with the citizens of the Capitol whose streets were now lethal? Were the citizens of the Capitol told to stay in their homes to avoid being killed by the traps? Did they all get a map?

 

I know that they pulled the citizens from the outer ring but those bombs seemed to be ALL over the city, not just the outer edges, so I really didn't understand the mechanics of that. Was this better explained in the books?

 

Good questions. First of all, why would Snow open his home to refugees when he didn't give a toss about people? And why did anyone think hiding in a mansion with a fence around it would keep them safe from rebels with guns and tanks and whatnot?

 

But the impression I got with the pods was that they were all created and installed in the few days before the rebels arrived. Which is... far fetched. They must have had hundreds, if not thousands of game-makers to do that, but only had one set of games a year? That's a very inefficient employment model. Also, if Katniss & co were following the rebel advance, why were all those pods undisturbed? Why did the refugees think metal devices dropped from a plane in the middle of an active battlezone would be welcome at all? And why did anyone think that Snow bombed his own people, when it didn't give him any advantage at all? So much of it doesn't hold up to scrutiny, and if the explanation is in the books, then it's not a good adaptation.

 

The enemy is literally at the the gates of the capitol but if can kill the great inspirational one they will quit within sight of total victory. The war shown was beyond the need for propaganda broadcast. The army arrived at the same time as the survivors of the special squad.

 

 

Yeah, that didn't make sense either. The rebels are pushing for Snow's mansion, to capture and/or kill him, but Katniss, who enters the city after them, and spends time sitting around chatting to Peeta, manages to get to the mansion before the rebels? And Snow, who must be aware that it doesn't matter one bit whether she's alive or not, apparently spends his time making sure she's dead and televising it (to who? Who is watching, when the city is a warzone?) instead of actually trying to combat the rebel advance. He's got troops to send after her, but not enough to hold any ground around his home?

[Raja]

I am guessing the war at that point was combat engineers and bomb disposal experts taking apart booby traps with the last storm troopers guarding the palace. When the squad found their way to the tunnel they crossed underneath the front only to have the army catch up when they rested at Cat lady's house

[methodwriter85]

They implied as much as they could imply, but that often fell short.What bothered me the most of all these changes is that Mockingjay Katniss was physically fucked up by the bombs. She was horrifically scarred. New skin forms, and it's ripped off in her struggle with the guards after assassinating Coin. So it was a little strange to see Katniss at the end looking immaculately gorgeous, and yes, it seemed cheap.

 

I knew that they were never going to show Katniss getting as fucked up as she did in the book. If they weren't willing to have Peeta lose his leg, there was no way they were going to show Katniss with grotesque burn scars and skin grafts.

[Hanahope]

I went to the toilet when they went to the ridiculous cat lady's place, then came back and Katniss and Gale were joining the refugees. I don't recall Cressida (thanks for the name) appearing again. My girlfriend said she was killed.

 

Katniss and Gale joined the refugees, hoping to get close to Snow at his mansion, but the rest of the group stayed at Tigress' place.  I don't recall seeing them again, except for Peeta, but there was no indication Cressida or Pollux died.

[Raja]

I knew that they were never going to show Katniss getting as fucked up as she did in the book. If they weren't willing to have Peeta lose his leg, there was no way they were going to show Katniss with grotesque burn scars and skin grafts.

So Peeta survived a second Hunger Game and the war in the books with a bionic leg?

[methodwriter85]

So Peeta survived a second Hunger Game and the war in the books with a bionic leg?

Yep.

[scarynikki12]

I know we saw Cressida again after the war ended, I want to say right before Katniss walked out to Snow's execution, but I can't remember the details.

[Raja]

So Peeta survived a second Hunger Game and the war in the books with a bionic leg?

 

 

Yep.

For someone my age "bionic" means better, stronger , faster. Even if he got it in the first place because he was a man barely alive

[raezen]

I knew that they were never going to show Katniss getting as fucked up as she did in the book. If they weren't willing to have Peeta lose his leg, there was no way they were going to show Katniss with grotesque burn scars and skin grafts.

I'm pretty sure I remember seeing a hell of a lot of un-Katniss like makeup in 'Catching Fire ' while Katniss was still in district 12. I wasn't holding my breath that they would give her skin grafts at the end.

[NoWillToResist]

Good questions. First of all, why would Snow open his home to refugees when he didn't give a toss about people?

 

Good PR? Human shields for when the rebels broke through? ;)

 

 

But the impression I got with the pods was that they were all created and installed in the few days before the rebels arrived. Which is... far fetched. They must have had hundreds, if not thousands of game-makers to do that, but only had one set of games a year? That's a very inefficient employment model.

 

You know, I can hand wave the super-glued on fire throwers and whatnot. What I can't get past? The fucking 10 storey tall cement walls which enclosed that apartment complex and a fuckton of goo with interesting physical properties. Um...when did they have time to engineer that shit? Where did the goo come from? Where was it stored? How did it recede? Where did it recede to if the area was enclosed? Handy that there wasn't enough goo to breach the top step of that staircase too.

 

I guess the walls must have opened up again since the Capitol soldiers were able to get in, but then what controlled re-opening the cement walls?

And why did anyone think that Snow bombed his own people, when it didn't give him any advantage at all?

 

There was some kind of marking on the plane which dropped the bomb; I presumed it was a Capitol symbol. I guess Coin's gang somehow commandeered one and then dropped the bomb using it, thus framing Snow for the job. The bomb also shortly followed an attack from the rebels, if I'm not mistaken (the one which allowed Kat to avoid being de-hooded and exposed as a non-refugee). So, I guess people figured that Snow would have dropped the bomb to stop the rebels and likely viewed his own people as collateral damage?

 

Since Gale was with Kat when the bomb dropped, I was a little confused why she cut him off when the bomb killed Prim. I didn't get the impression that he knew that was going to happen, so why did they both blame him for getting Prim killed? Don't get me wrong, I was glad that something had happened to end the triangle, but I guess I would have liked it to be a little more clear...

Edited November 27, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[Zuleikha]

Since Gale was with Kat when the bomb dropped, I was a little confused why she cut him off when the bomb killed Prim. I didn't get the impression that he knew that was going to happen, so why did they both blame him for getting Prim killed?

He designed the bomb that killed Prim.

[Rick Kitchen]

I thought Gale designed the battle plan.

[Hybridcookie]

scarynikki12, on 27 Nov 2015 - 03:07 AM, said:

I know we saw Cressida again after the war ended, I want to say right before Katniss walked out to Snow's execution, but I can't remember the details.

 

I think she and her camera crew were around to film Snow's execution

[NoWillToResist]

He designed the bomb that killed Prim.

 

 

I thought Gale designed the battle plan.

 

 

Gale designed a bomb? I was unaware that District 12 offered that type of training. Anyway, I'm still not quite sure why that would be a deal breaker. However, if he came up with the plan to bomb innocent people and frame Snow for it, that I would understand as a deal breaker. Was it clearer in the books what Gale's involvement was in that whole debacle?

[truthaboutluv]

Gale designed a bomb? I was unaware that District 12 offered that type of training. Anyway, I'm still not quite sure why that would be a deal breaker. However, if he came up with the plan to bomb innocent people and frame Snow for it, that I would understand as a deal breaker. Was it clearer in the books what Gale's involvement was in that whole debacle?

 

It was clearer in the books but there was a scene in the movie that explained this. Katniss walks in on Gale and Beetee talking strategy and Beetee explains about Gale's plan to set bombs off that would get people to run to one location, assuming that was the attack, only to then set off another bomb. I believe they even mentioned the possibility of the aid workers coming in to help and hitting them then when they were vulnerable and it was unexpected. 

 

I'm not sure that Gale fully designed the bomb as that was more Beetee's expertise but in the book it's stated that he spent a lot of time working with Beetee and the whole combat plan if you want to call it that, was apparently his suggestion. When Katniss hears it she mentions the possibility of innocent people being killed which Gale saw as just a reality and casualty of the war. So when Prim dies in very much a similar type of strike that they had planned, Katniss can't separate that from  Gale whether or not it really was their bomb or a Capitol bomb. 

 

Basically, for much of Mockingjay you see the slow deterioration of Gale and Katniss' friendship when it becomes clear that Gale believed everything was okay, no matter how brutal, if it meant bringing down the Capitol because in his mind it meant that he was on the side of good. Katniss however didn't believe that and thought some of the things they were suggesting made them no better than Snow and that of course eventually leads to killing Coin because essentially it was replacing one cruel dictator for another. 

Edited November 27, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[NoWillToResist]

It was clearer in the books but there was a scene in the movie that explained this. Katniss walks in on Gale and Beetee talking strategy and Beetee explains about Gale's plan to set bombs off that would get people to run to one location, assuming that was the attack, only to then set off another bomb. I believe they even mentioned the possibility of the aid workers coming in to help and hitting them then when they were vulnerable and it was unexpected. 

 

I'm not sure that Gale fully designed the bomb as that was more Beetee's expertise but in the book it's stated that he spent a lot of time working with Beetee and the whole combat plan if you want to call it that, was apparently his suggestion. When Katniss hears it she mentions the possibility of innocent people being killed which Gale saw as just a reality and casualty of the war. So when Prim dies in very much a similar type of strike that they had planned, Katniss can't separate that from  Gale whether or not it really was their bomb or a Capitol bomb. 

 

Basically, for much of Mockingjay you see the slow deterioration of Gale and Katniss' friendship when it becomes clear that Gale believed everything was okay, no matter how brutal, if it meant bringing down the Capitol because in his mind it meant that he was on the side of good. Katniss however didn't believe that and thought some of the things they were suggesting made them no better than Snow and that of course eventually leads to killing Coin because essentially it was replacing one cruel dictator for another. 

 

Thank you so much for clarifying all this.

 

I did recall a moment in either this movie or the last where you could see that Kat and Gale were starting to have different views on war. He seemed less sympathetic to anyone in the Capitol, linking them with Snow's evil whereas Kat seemed to be able to separate the two.

 

I can't help but wonder how much their specific experiences influenced this. I mean, Kat went through the Hunger Games and had a clear villain in Snow. Kat saw some fellow combatants die in the Games whereas Gale was back home and watched "the Capitol" bomb District 12 into oblivion. Gale saw his friends, family, home, and community utterly destroyed; mass slaughter right before his eyes. IIRC, he said he tried to lead a group to safety and they were bombed right in front of him. Seeing that will change a person, IMO.

 

I can't help but wonder whether Kat would have ended up with Gale's attitude had she lost any loved ones early on. Her mother, sister, best friend and precious Peeta survived for most of the series. Had Prim been blown to shit early on, would she have been any different from Gale? This was also what made it difficult for me to feel bad for Kat. All the people close to her were alive (until Prim right at the end), so my sympathies went more to the characters who literally lost everything/everyone. Sure, she was the golden goose to the revolution which had its own problems, but she and her family (and the fucking cat) were looked after, which is more than most people got...

Edited November 27, 2015 by NoWillToResist

[Brn2bwild]

 

You know, I can hand wave the super-glued on fire throwers and whatnot. What I can't get past? The fucking 10 storey tall cement walls which enclosed that apartment complex and a fuckton of goo with interesting physical properties. Um...when did they have time to engineer that shit? Where did the goo come from? Where was it stored? How did it recede? Where did it recede to if the area was enclosed? Handy that there wasn't enough goo to breach the top step of that staircase too.

 

In the book, weren't those booby traps there all along (Snow having prepared long ago for any rebellion), and weren't they going off even as the refugees were fleeing?

[truthaboutluv]

I can't help but wonder whether Kat would have ended up with Gale's attitude had she lost any loved ones early on. Her mother, sister, best friend and precious Peeta survived for most of the series. Had Prim been blown to shit early on, would she have been any different from Gale? This was also what made it difficult for me to feel bad for Kat. All the people close to her were alive (until Prim right at the end), so my sympathies went more to the characters who literally lost everything/everyone. Sure, she was the golden goose to the revolution which had its own problems, but she and her family (and the fucking cat) were looked after, which is more than most people got...

 

 

But that argument sort of doesn't work in Gale's favor because he didn't lose anyone either. Gale was able to save his mother and all his siblings before District 12 was blown to bits, as opposed to someone like Peeta whose entire family was wiped out. Also, Katniss had lost a loved one well before the Games, her dad, which is one of the things that first bonded her and Gale. They both lost their fathers to mine explosions and the reality of the harsh conditions of District 12 and then had to take over the responsibility of keeping their families fed before they were even 15. 

 

And I really cannot buy that argument in Gale's favor over Katniss. Not only did Katniss know and understand the cruelty of the Capitol and Snow much like Gale did, unlike him she lived through the Games twice where Snow and the Capitol basically forced these kids to be killers. You saw Katniss already struggling with the beginnings of her PTSD in Catching Fire when at the start of the film she is trying to hunt and sees Marvel instead of a deer. That was something Gale never experienced and never lived through and could not understand. That was another thing that was great about Catching Fire - Katniss and Peeta meeting all these older tributes and hearing their stories and seeing how the Games fucked all these people up so badly. 

 

So I cannot ever agree that Katniss did not lose like Gale and so his attitude was more sympathetic and understandable. In my opinion Katniss living through all she did is exactly why she saw the forest from the trees if you will and realized the reality of Coin and her tactics - that she was no better. And that's also what Peeta realized and why I said in the book discussion thread about the series that I thought he was one of the strongest people in the series.

 

I know some disagree and see Gale as stronger because he was masculine, a fighter, had all this fire and anger but in my opinion Peeta had more strength than most people - that he survived all that he did (the Games twice, losing his leg, his entire family wiped out, being a POW who was tortured to the point of barely knowing what was real and what wasn't) and was still able to be one of those in the end to say no to the special Games and point out that it made them no better than Snow and the Capitol and the people they believed were evil, showed amazing strength of character.

 

And it was especially poignant due to his fear back in the first book, before the Games, that he didn't want them to change him. That if he was going to die he wanted to die being himself. And that he was able to have that even after they turned him into a Capitol "mutt" convinced that Katniss was some evil monster wanting to kill him, was admirable in my opinion. 

Edited November 27, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[GaT]

It was clearer in the books but there was a scene in the movie that explained this. Katniss walks in on Gale and Beetee talking strategy and Beetee explains about Gale's plan to set bombs off that would get people to run to one location, assuming that was the attack, only to then set off another bomb. I believe they even mentioned the possibility of the aid workers coming in to help and hitting them then when they were vulnerable and it was unexpected. 

 

I'm not sure that Gale fully designed the bomb as that was more Beetee's expertise but in the book it's stated that he spent a lot of time working with Beetee and the whole combat plan if you want to call it that, was apparently his suggestion. When Katniss hears it she mentions the possibility of innocent people being killed which Gale saw as just a reality and casualty of the war. So when Prim dies in very much a similar type of strike that they had planned, Katniss can't separate that from  Gale whether or not it really was their bomb or a Capitol bomb. 

 

Basically, for much of Mockingjay you see the slow deterioration of Gale and Katniss' friendship when it becomes clear that Gale believed everything was okay, no matter how brutal, if it meant bringing down the Capitol because in his mind it meant that he was on the side of good. Katniss however didn't believe that and thought some of the things they were suggesting made them no better than Snow and that of course eventually leads to killing Coin because essentially it was replacing one cruel dictator for another. 

I thought that they didn't make this clear enough in the movie. In the book it was very clear that Gale had come up with the "2nd bomb" scenario & those little bombs being dropped was his idea/design. Also in the book, the conversation between him & Katniss is clearer, he basically says that the only thing he had going for him with Katniss was that he took care of her family, so once Prim is killed by his bomb, he realizes that anything they had between them is gone. 

[bluvelvet]

They definitely made it clearer in the books, it's funny that they split the last book into two movies but I feel they ended up missing some important character development points. Even before the bomb issue, Katniss and Gale's friendship was falling apart due to their differing views on the Capitol and the war.  I think the bomb was the straw that broke the camel's back.  With or without the Prim's death, Gale and Katniss's friendship probably would have cooled over time due to their differing opinions.

[BatmanBeatles]

I really wished they kept the part where Katniss' prep team got thrown in prison for taking extra bread. Since the movies didn't develop Katniss' fondness for said characters, it could have been Effie. In the first part, you had Effie complaining about district 13's regulations. It would have been perfect.

[wallflower75]

First of all, why would Snow open his home to refugees when he didn't give a toss about people? And why did anyone think hiding in a mansion with a fence around it would keep them safe from rebels with guns and tanks and whatnot?

 

I'd say to answer the first question that Snow believed the rebels wouldn't bomb innocent civilians, so offering them a safe haven was a calculated move on his part.  He believed that the good guys wouldn't do something like that because they were too noble and good.  In this case, he was wrong.

 

As for why anyone would go to the mansion for protection, think about the mindset of the people who lived in the Capital.  They've never experienced danger on the level of what they're facing from the rebel attack and therefore don't have any notion of what to do.  (These are the same people who don't think twice about children killing children for their entertainment.)  So yeah, I can see them being gullible enough to think that they'll be safe with Snow.

[methodwriter85]

I really wished they kept the part where Katniss' prep team got thrown in prison for taking extra bread. Since the movies didn't develop Katniss' fondness for said characters, it could have been Effie. In the first part, you had Effie complaining about district 13's regulations. It would have been perfect.

 

I honestly thought they were going to do that. I'm just really confused as to what the point of splitting a movie into two 2 and a half hour movies was if they weren't going to add more details and stuff. Like seriously, why was so much of this spent on the love triangle?

 

I think my biggest bitch about the two Mockingjay movies is that they could have done more to foreshadow why the District 13 way wasn't necessarily the best way. That would have been the best way to do it, and it would have been a pretty quick scene that could have been done in place of the millions of scenes about war and love that was in this one.

Edited November 28, 2015 by methodwriter85

[Brn2bwild]

I thought they'd spend more time developing Coin as the Big Bad as well.  In the book, she was a cipher.  In Part 1, they seemed to flesh her out a little more, and I thought that would continue.  Instead, the scene where she decided to subject the Capitol children to the Hunger Games played out exactly as it did in the book.  I could understand her wanting revenge, but I wanted more.  Why didn't she know or care how hypocritical that made her look?  Did she think that would win people's confidence?

[thuganomics85]

Finally got time to see this.  Overall, I thought it was a solid enough of a conclusion, but I still think splitting the final films was a bit much, and I wonder if that has any effect on the less then expected opening weekend at the box office (of course, a $100 million dollar opening being considered a "disappointment', is so "Hollywood blockbuster" problems...)  But I did like that they did resist any type of temptation and kept the more downer ending from the books, because I really don't think it would have worked to have a full-fledged happy ending.  

 

Prim's death though, did lack the impact that it really should have.  It was a huge deal in the books, but I never felt like I warmed up to the character or her relationship with Katniss, despite four films.  In comparison, I was way more effected by Rue's death in the first film, and Katniss reaction was more heartbreaking.  Only time I ever felt that way here was Katniss finally breaking down with Buttercup.

 

Similarly, Finnick's death didn't grab me like it did in the books either.  His death reminded me of 

George Weasley's in Harry Potter

, in that it, in the books, it was a character I really enjoyed and I was shocked how how sudden and quick it was, but in the series, Finnick never really was as awesome, so it was sad, but not as much as it should be.  I actually felt more emotion for Boggs' death, despite only being introduced in Mockingjay Part 1.

 

Jennifer Lawrence really sold Katniss' PTSD, and I really bought her is a person close to breaking, but soldiering on, and just trying to not fully loose herself.  Josh Hutcherson got his best material yet, and was admirable enough.  Liam Hemsworth though... I don't know, I thought he actually was solid in Mockingjay Part 1, but it's like he regressed in this one.  I just don't get it.  I feel awful, but I still think he will always be the bargain bin version of the Hemsworth brothers, compared to Big Bro Chris.

 

Glad we got a little more of Johanna this time, and Jena Malone continues to be awesome.  Still love Cressdia, just because she's Natalie Dormer.  Pollux was more noticeable this time, now that I saw Elden Henson on Daredevil.  Not enough Beetee.  Even in one mere scene, Stanley Tucci was a blast as Cesar.

 

I still think I could watch an entire film focused on Woody Harrelson as Haymitch.

 

I continue to think Elizabeth Banks gave one of the most underrated performances on this series.  Effie could have been so one dimensional, but I thought she really added a lot of layers to the character.  Her barely keeping it together when she and Katniss said good-bye, was moving.

 

Donald Sutherland though, is still my MVP (not including Lawrence, since she's the lead.)  Him as Snow has to be one of my favorite casting choices ever.  The way he could be so menacing and scary, but have a strange charm to him, just blows my mind.  The Snow/Katniss scene is probably one of my favorites of the entire series.

 

Coin finally getting hers was satisfying.  Wish she had more to do, but Julianne Moore made the most of it.

 

Still sad that this is probably the last time Phillip Seymour Hoffman will be appearing on the big screen. 

 

I still think Catching Fire was the best of the franchise though.

[Wishing Well]

Wait, if I recall correctly, Snow was bringing everybody to his mansion to build himself a human shield. That is why the gates never opened for them, until the bombs fell. As for Gale's connection to the bombing, the book made it very clear that he had been greatly involved with the idea of the bomb, which was later crafted. Katniss realized after Snow spoke to her that the design of what killed Prim was exactly what she overheard Gale working on and from that moment on was unable to disassociate him from Prim's death. In the film it was less clear on why HE was being blamed, but she was shown to severely disapprove of the concept.

[topanga]

 

I continue to think Elizabeth Banks gave one of the most underrated performances on this series.  Effie could have been so one dimensional, but I thought she really added a lot of layers to the character.  Her barely keeping it together when she and Katniss said good-bye, was moving.

I totally agree. And I think that's why she played a somewhat-prominent role 4 movies. In the books, I don't think she was in Mockingjay at all, but I could be mistaken. 

[truthaboutluv]

She gets one passing mention. Katniss sees her at one point when they got to the Capitol. 

[raezen]

I thought they'd spend more time developing Coin as the Big Bad as well.  In the book, she was a cipher.  In Part 1, they seemed to flesh her out a little more, and I thought that would continue.  Instead, the scene where she decided to subject the Capitol children to the Hunger Games played out exactly as it did in the book.  I could understand her wanting revenge, but I wanted more.  Why didn't she know or care how hypocritical that made her look?  Did she think that would win people's confidence?

I had hoped that Julianne Moore 's Coin would get the same fleshing out that Sutherland 's Snow got. That is disappointing.

I totally agree. And I think that's why she played a somewhat-prominent role 4 movies. In the books, I don't think she was in Mockingjay at all, but I could be mistaken.

In the book she appears at the end as the only surviving people in her profession.

[Enero]

I saw this last night. I thought it was a little better than MJ1 only because there was more action to engage in. However, overall I thought the movie was just okay. Like MJ1, the book didn't translate well to screen. It sort of felt like the director was checking off all the major events in the book, but not really adding much substance to what was driving those events. I think a big part of why this issue occurred was because THG series was done from Katniss' POV. THG and CF worked a little better on screen because the world view was limited. In essence we were watching Katniss go through the Games. But in MJ the world got a lot bigger with war and politics, things that went way beyond Katniss, which IMO made it difficult to interpret on screen without any insight in the source material beyond Katniss' POV.

That said, I did think the scenes with them being underground dealing with the mutts were well done, as was Coin's assassination.

I thought they missed a lot of opportunities, throughout the series to build Peeta's character, and thus make the audience sympathize with what he'd been through. When Katniss started telling Peeta who he was, i.e. his favorite color, that he was a baker and a painter, I was like 'he is?' I was being sarcastic of course because I already knew this from reading the books, but someone who hadn't read the books would've been completely blindsided by this information - at least the people who I saw the movie with were.

I agree with others, I just didn't care when Prim died. There had been virtually no relationship shown between her and Katniss onscreen so I didn't feel the pain of her death and thus I thought Katniss' anger and pain over her death didn't ring true. The same with Finnick. I appreciated seeing his fearlessness with the mutts, but when he died I really didn't care because we hardly got any insight into the character like we did in the books.

Other things that bugged, was Katniss recovery after assassinating Coin. If I'm remembering correctly, in the books she was not only locked up for a while during her trial, but was also being treated for severe injuries. Furthermore, when she returned to D12 she was a complete mess. For weeks she stayed in the same room, wearing the same clothes, not showering or combing her hair, only leaving the room to go to the bathroom which was a few feet away. It was only when Peeta showed up did she clean herself up and pull herself together. Again, the movie missed another moment to show the importance of Peeta's character.

Overall the acting was alright. I thought JL was hit or miss. She does overt emotion well, but can't do subtlety to save her life. I thought she was pretty flat for most of the movie. Josh did well with PTSD/hijacking material. Liam Hemsworth did okay, not great but not horrible either. Elizabeth Banks was excellent as always as was Donald Sutherland and Julianne Moore.

The scene with Haymitch reading Plutcharch's letter, instead of Plutcharch being their to talk to Katniss as if was in the book, worked well. I wonder if it was planned this way all along or if PSH's death dictated the change from the book. Also, I noticed at the end when Paylor was being sworn in that Plutcharch was there, but we didn't get a clear shot of him likely due to PSH's death.

Again, this was okay. Glad the series is finally over though.

[truthaboutluv]

I thought they missed a lot of opportunities, throughout the series to build Peeta's character, and thus make the audience sympathize with what he'd been through. When Katniss started telling Peeta who he was, i.e. his favorite color, that he was a baker and a painter, I was like 'he is?' I was being sarcastic of course because I already knew this from reading the books, but someone who hadn't read the books would've been completely blindsided by this information - at least the people who I saw the movie with were.

 

 

While I agree about the missed opportunities, some of that stuff was in the movie but it is easy for someone who did not read the books to forget about it over four films and so many other things going on. Peeta talks about orange being his favorite color in Catching Fire when he approaches Katniss on the train and makes their offer of their trying to be friends. The painter thing was alluded to in both the first and second films - the first when he showed his camouflage skills and the second when he painted Rue for his evaluation (though that scene was sort of misunderstood by some people) and the baker thing was referenced a few times with his family owning the bakery. But yeah, over four films and these things mostly being lines here and there, it would be easy to forget about it. 

[raezen]

The painter thing was alluded to in both the first and second films - the first when he showed his camouflage skills and the second when he painted Rue for his evaluation (though that scene was sort of misunderstood by some people) and the baker thing was referenced a few times with his family owning the bakery. But yeah, over four films and these things mostly being lines here and there, it would be easy to forget about it.

And they did a horrible job of referring to Peeta's artistic ability. It was so bad that I , having not read the books until after seeing CF , didn't realize that it was Peeta that had done the drawing of Rue that led Katniss to making the hangman of Seneca Crane as her talent. I, and the other people I watched with, thought that the game makers were trying to drive Katniss insane with the drawing. They couldn't have Peeta drawing in the background in a scene?

[bluvelvet]

Other things that bugged, was Katniss recovery after assassinating Coin. If I'm remembering correctly, in the books she was not only locked up for a while during her trial, but was also being treated for severe injuries. Furthermore, when she returned to D12 she was a complete mess. For weeks she stayed in the same room, wearing the same clothes, not showering or combing her hair, only leaving the room to go to the bathroom which was a few feet away. It was only when Peeta showed up did she clean herself up and pull herself together. Again, the movie missed another moment to show the importance of Peeta's character.

 

I won't lie, this bugged me about the movie also. In the movie she just gets up and starts hunting which isn't how it played out in the books. She wss literally a zombie for weeks and is not until Peeta returns that she's able to actually go out but herself back together. Something else I wished they had alluded to in CF was the fact that she refused to eat or drink anything after Peeta was initially captured. Both of these instances show how important he was to her.

 

And they did a horrible job of referring to Peeta's artistic ability. It was so bad that I , having not read the books until after seeing CF , didn't realize that it was Peeta that had done the drawing of Rue that led Katniss to making the hangman of Seneca Crane as her talent. I, and the other people I watched with, thought that the game makers were trying to drive Katniss insane with the drawing. They couldn't have Peeta drawing in the background in a scene?

I agree here also, this was a blink and you miss it part of the second movie. Book readers knew that Peeta was the one who did the painting, however not so easy for others to pick up. That being said I was told that when you Peeta walking out paint on his hands to implicate that he did the painting.

[NoWillToResist]

So I cannot ever agree that Katniss did not lose like Gale and so his attitude was more sympathetic and understandable. . 

 

I don't remember hearing that Gale's family survived the hit on District 13. Regardless, I was merely commenting on their different experiences: Gale witnessing widespread death and destruction vs Kat's smaller (though more personal) experiences in the Games.

 

I certainly didn't meant to imply that I had sympathy for Gale. I just thought that his own experiences likely shaped his (differing) attitude.

 

I felt very bad for Peeta when he was told that his whole family had been wiped out in the attack; like, way to add insult to injury! :) Had the character not been part of the love triangle, I probably would have liked him more. But as it stood, I hated everyone involved in it. I was far more interested in anyone not related to, or romantically interested in, Kat. If only someone could re-write the books and omit the triangle...