Romantic Comedies

[amaranta]

Quote

Netflix has (or at least used to, but I think it's still there) Desk Set

Yes, it's still there.  I like that one but if I had to pick just one Hepburn & Tracy I don't think that would be it.  Adam's Rib, Woman of the Year, Guess Who's Coming to Dinner, Pat and Mike - just off the top of my head.

This conversation got me to thinking about what may be my all time favorite romantic comedies and I have to say, once I thought about it, my very favorite just might be The Apartment.  I adore that film. The Awful Truth would be a very close second (sends loving thoughts up to Cary Grant.)

Last night I watched Two Weeks Notice simply because it was leaving.  It remains cute, and I still laughed at the end when he paces off her apartment in six very large steps.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Two Weeks Notice is in my top 5 rom-coms of all time.  I was just crazy about it and used to watch it probably once or more a year.  It's been awhile though; I didn't even get through it last time I tried.  I rewatched Music and Lyrics and I found it a lot more likeable this time.  I definitely didn't get into it the first time.

I rewatched Sleepless in Seattle.  Don't throw things; I totally get the charm of this movie and why it's so beloved, but I also think that Annie is a bit of an asshole and most definitely a stalker.  Obviously the fact that Sam and Annie even get together is so insane because of the time period - nobody really uses the internet, you can't just Google somebody, etc. - so it is all kind of a miracle.  But a few things do stand out to me and kind of make me laugh in how unrealistic they are.  It is ridiculous in this way but I guess that's all part of the 'charm'.

Tom Hanks and the child who plays his son are amazing gold.  The funniest scene is the one where they are interrogating Gaby Hoffman's character, Jessica, because Sam's child, Jonah, has disappeared.

Jessica's Dad: Tell us where he is. Right this minute.
Jessica: N. Y.
Sam: What is that?
Jessica's Dad: "No way".
Sam: That's N.W.!

The scene is so funny and the actor playing Gaby's dad is so, so good in that 5 minute scene.

Edited July 4, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Nidratime]

The Washington Post gave The Big Sick four stars and said it was giving life to the Rom-Com, so looks like there's something out there to see.

I'm a huge fan of Rom-Coms from way back, and I've enjoyed many you've already mentioned so I won't repeat them. There are a number of films from the 30's, 40's, & 50's I could mention, but that would just become one long list. Keeping things more recent, while throwing in some oldies, I'd suggest:

For diversity: Fools Rush In, Strictly Ballroom (from Australia), Mostly Martha (from Germany)

Older couples: Must Love Dogs, Shall We Dance, Baby Boom, Cousins, Something's Gotta Give ... I guess you could include Letters to Juliet here, because one of the couples is older. What's great is that couple is real life husband and wife, Vanessa Redgrave and Franco Nero.

Sports themed: Wimbledon, Bull Durham, Mr. Baseball, which could be put in the diverse category too.

King of indie or little known: Next Stop, Wonderland, Sliding Doors, Lucky Seven

Guilty pleasures: The Switch, The Lake House, The Prince and Me, Doc Hollywood

Ensemble cast: Jane Austen Book Club, Crazy Stupid Love

Blasts from the Past: Theodora Goes Wild, Teacher's Pet, Designing Woman, How to Murder Your Wife, Indiscreet, That Touch of Mink, Victor/Victoria, Support Your Local Sheriff, Houseboat, Not With My Wife You Don't

Someone brought up Princess Diaries 2. I have to admit, I loved Anne Hathaway and Chris Pine in this. I had heard that Garry Marshall was gearing up to make Princess Diaries 3, which would've featured those two actors. But, of course, he passed away recently. Too bad his sister, Penny Marshall, can't take the helm.

[twoods]

Princess Diaries 3 would have been nice to see. I know Anne and Chris are much more famous now, but I loved their chemistry. Now I have to see if it's on Netflix because I want to see it again.

I saw 13 Going on 30 yesterday and still love it. I think one of the reasons why I love it is the 80's music. May be why the Wedding Singer and Never Been Kissed are my favorite movies. 

I saw a very charming movie last night on Amazon Prime that is more romantic than a romcom called the Inheritance. It was a period movie similar to Love and Friendship and Emma, and I loved the leads and their chemistry. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

I tried to watch Just My Luck because of Chris Pine.  I wouldn't recommend you guys do the same.  It just wasn't good.  I also tried Uptown Girls in support of Brittany Murphy.  Didn't love that one either.

13 Going on 30, Must Love Dogs, Something's Gotta Give, Wimbledon, The Switch are all some of my favourites.

When I rewatched Doc Hollywood for the first time since the 1990s, about 10 years ago, I was so taken aback.  The movie kind of broke my heart.  I think I saw it at this real turning point in my life where I knew I hated, hated, hated my job and needed out of it.  It made me kind of question everything about life.  It made me think I should possibly leave my metropolitan city and give up the corporate world altogether.  (I still think I should do the latter, I just don't know how yet :)  )

For baseball + romcom for me, you can't beat Fever Pitch, the one with Drew Barrymore and Jimmy Fallon.  I can't believe I never really watched this movie until last year, as I'm a huge baseball fan.  When I finally saw it, I L*O*V*E*D it.  Like, I was scream-crying by the end of it.  Loved it.  Immediately bought it on Blu-Ray.

I never could get into the Princess Diaries series : /  Maybe I will try again because of you guys.  (I have no issue with Anne Hathaway!  The Devil Wears Prada and The Intern get so so much play in my house. Two deeply rewatchable films.)

Edited July 4, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Bastet]

12 hours ago, Nidratime said:

The Washington Post gave The Big Sick four stars and said it was giving life to the Rom-Com, so looks like there's something out there to see.

I love a lot of screwball romantic comedies from the '30s/early '40s, and between then and now there may only be a dozen romantic comedies I truly enjoy; it is a genre that generally doesn't interest me, and often annoys or even offends me.  I offer this background to give context when I say the promos for The Big Sick look great to me.  I'll probably even shell out to see it in the theater; it seems special, and I'm in.

I can't even articulate specifically what I'm responding to.  Being based on real people/a real relationship is probably helping create something a lot more palatable to me than the average rom-com, but it's not as if my beloved screwballs were particularly grounded in reality (situation wise, but on the flip side, the characters feel more authentic to me, especially the women).  The cast isn't a factor: I don't know Kumail Nanjiani other than his role in one of my favorite episodes of The X-Files (and that he's a big fan of the show), I don't know Zoey Kazan at all (I had to look up her name after seeing the trailer), I like Holly Hunter but not remotely enough to watch something in which I'm otherwise uninterested just to see her, and I only know Ray Romano from Everybody Loves Raymond, which I could not stand.  So there aren't specific things from the trailer that I can say THAT makes me want to go see this movie, but the combined effect is working on me.

[amaranta]

Quote

For baseball + romcom for me, you can't beat Fever Pitch, the one with Drew Barrymore and Jimmy Fallon.  I can't believe I never really watched this movie until last year, as I'm a huge baseball fan.  When I finally saw it, I L*O*V*E*D it.  Like, I was scream-crying by the end of it.  Loved it.  Immediately bought it on Blu-Ray.

Also a big baseball fan and I love this movie.  And I love that they lucked out while filming and the Red Sox (sorry to my beloved Orioles) broke the curse and won the series.  I find it so cool that they were able to attend "in character" and shoot the celebratory kiss on the field during the actual craziness and joyful mayhem of a real World Series win.  What a great moment.

 

Quote

The cast isn't a factor: I don't know Kumail Nanjiani other than his role in one of my favorite episodes of The X-Files (and that he's a big fan of the show), I don't know Zoey Kazan at all (I had to look up her name after seeing the trailer), I like Holly Hunter but not remotely enough to watch something in which I'm otherwise uninterested just to see her, and I only know Ray Romano from Everybody Loves Raymond, which I could not stand.  So there aren't specific things from the trailer that I can say THAT makes me want to go see this movie, but the combined effect is working on me.

I love Kumail on Silicon Valley, have long liked Holly Hunter, and in his post sitcom life Ray Romano has actually turned into a good actor,  Which, yes, surprised the hell out of me.  I mean, who knew?

And The Big Sick is an Amazon Studios production which means in 4 - 6 months it will be Prime available.  I don't generally put much stock in reviews but I've yet to see anything that's not glowing.  Throw in that its the true story of its lead actor (Kumail and his real life wife) I also find to be a plus - I'm a sucker for that kind of thing.

Edited July 5, 2017 by amaranta
I was very sleepy...

[Irlandesa]

2 hours ago, amaranta said:

And The Big Sick is an Amazon Studios production which means in 4 - 6 months it will be Prime available. 

I'm so torn. I rarely go to see movies as it's just not something I've ever been a huge fan of doing. (Always liked to rent them, though.)  So part of me would rather just wait until it becomes available on Prime.  But I also want to support movies I'd like to see so I feel like I should go out and actually see them in a theater.  I wish I had done that for the latest Bridget Jones.

2 hours ago, amaranta said:

I love Kumail on Silicon Valley

I remember very little about Silicon Valley other than deciding it wasn't really for me.  But I do remember Kumail from when he guest starred on The Grider and he was just hilarious.

[Qoass]

Off topic, I am feeling really good about my DVDs.  Fine, it's not as portable as Netflix but I get to curate my own collection and they're easier to share with friends.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I have a crazy Blu Ray/DVD collection.  I love them too.  I do not like to lend them out though.  I've lost so many books that way.  

[twoods]

8 hours ago, Qoass said:

Off topic, I am feeling really good about my DVDs.  Fine, it's not as portable as Netflix but I get to curate my own collection and they're easier to share with friends.

I agree- DVDs are awesome. I just hate that mine are shoved in some box in the garage and I can't find them (that, and I'm worried some spider is going to crawl out of it). I need to suck it up to get my Ever After and Serendipity  fix.

I also just did an Amazon spending spree and increased the DVD collection to include Wimbledon, the Duff, a two in one DVD of Sense and Sensibility and Persuasion (so excited for this one), and a four in one that has You've Got Mail, Laws of Attraction, Two Weeks Notice, and Must Love Dogs. Went a little crazy, but it's a birthday present to myself and Netflix isn't cutting it nowadays.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I can't resist the four in ones.  I have these, in Canada I was able to get them from Walmart or Amazon.  The 2nd and 4th were only 5 bucks.  I have another great one that includes the Sex and the City movies and two others...  I think Valentine's Day and something else.  Try looking up 4 movie marathon or whatever actress or movie you enjoy and you might hit a great deal.

I've never read or seen Persuasion - What version do people like?

 

  

 

Edited July 6, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Qoass]

I don't think I've seen any of that fourth collection but for five bucks, I'd give it a go...

ETA, I never watch it but I'm also really happy I've got  Lucky Seven (a TV movie with Patrick Dempsey) on disk. That's the kind of title that tends to disappear.

Edited July 6, 2017 by Qoass

[Popples]

I had forgotten how much I loved It Could Happen to You. I think I watched it just about anytime it aired on TV; plus it introduced me to the song "Young at Heart."

[Nidratime]

Speaking of "Young at Heart," that's a movie I have in my collection from the 1950's co-starring Doris Day and Frank Sinatra, among others.

As for movies that you can't seem to get on disk, I'm always surprised that the Hallmark movie "Straight from the Heart" is not available when they have some of their lesser titles on sale. I also have a thing for "Undercover Christmas," but once again, not available.

[twoods]

1 hour ago, Qoass said:

I don't think I've seen any of that fourth collection but for five bucks, I'd give it a go...

ETA, I never watch it but I'm also really happy I've got  Lucky Seven (a TV movie with Patrick Dempsey) on disk. That's the kind of title that tends to disappear.

That is one of my favorite TV movies. It is so good!

Ms Blue Jay, I like both versions of Persuasion but bought the older version with Amanda Root. The newer one with Rupert Penry Jones was more expensive, but he is so pretty so may end up buying that one as well.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Heart and Souls is a great movie.  I just don't remember if it's a romantic comedy.  Probably not.  But it stars Robert Downey Jr., Kyra Sedgwick, Alfre Woodward and I remember it being very enjoyable.

[Bastet]

48 minutes ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Heart and Souls is a great movie.  I just don't remember if it's a romantic comedy.  Probably not.  But it stars Robert Downey Jr., Kyra Sedgwick, Alfre Woodward and I remember it being very enjoyable.

I absolutely adore Heart and Souls (partly because the romantic relationship is a secondary storyline, so, no, not a typical romantic comedy).

[cpcathy]

I saw a mention of Cousins upthread. It's a really sweet, romantic film with well drawn-out characters. Even Sean Young's cheating wife is played sympathetically.

[Zola]

My favourites include "Chasing Amy", "Bridget Jones Diary", "Imagine Me and You", "Ghost" and "Love Actually"

[Browncoat]

2 hours ago, cpcathy said:

I saw a mention of Cousins upthread. It's a really sweet, romantic film with well drawn-out characters. Even Sean Young's cheating wife is played sympathetically.

It's one of my favorite movies of all time.

[Qoass]

Not to bring anybody down but The AV Club has a discussion today of what movie couples shouldn't end up together. The more I thought about it, the fewer couples I could think of that would have made it in the long run.

[aradia22]

Eh. Those were all softballs. None of my favorites made the list and I feel like for most of those movies you already know the relationship is problematic but you go with it anyway. I feel like there are two possibilities with rom-coms. Either there's not much getting in the way of the relationship but the characters have to get over some minor things... realizing they're attracted to each other, getting over their stubbornness, etc. Or there's something big to overcome but a good movie will convince you that the characters have grown enough or defeated their obstacles by the end so they can be together. Pfft at that list. That's like saying Overboard is problematic. No duh. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Thanks @Qoass for linking it!

[Ohwell]

On 7/6/2017 at 9:25 AM, Popples said:

I had forgotten how much I loved It Could Happen to You. I think I watched it just about anytime it aired on TV; plus it introduced me to the song "Young at Heart."

It was on today and, maybe because so much time has passed, I see it from a different perspective.  As bad as Rozie Perez's character was as the wife, I can certainly understand how pissed off she'd feel with her husband giving half the lottery winnings to another woman.   Plus, my favorite scene was when the wife got the boob job and they seemed to swell up in her chest the more she talked. 

[methodwriter85]

7 hours ago, Qoass said:

Not to bring anybody down but The AV Club has a discussion today of what movie couples shouldn't end up together. The more I thought about it, the fewer couples I could think of that would have made it in the long run.

I loved that they cited Pat and Tiffany from Silver Linings Playbook, being that my former manager at the theater I work at once went on a rant about how screwed up they were.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I see Ghost and It's Complicated on Canadian Netflix.  And Enchanted, Valentine's Day. Also Legends of the Fall -- but I've never seen that one.  There's a topic on mine called "Girls Night In" and there are dozens and dozens of romcoms.

Thanks to the poster(s) who recommended Sleeping with Other People.  I was surprised by how much I enjoyed it.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[Irlandesa]

14 hours ago, Qoass said:

Not to bring anybody down but The AV Club has a discussion today of what movie couples shouldn't end up together. The more I thought about it, the fewer couples I could think of that would have made it in the long run.

First, perhaps OT, are articles written about how "real" mysteries are? Or superhero movies?  Or sci fi movies?  They are all fiction and genre movies.  They all have their moments of improbability.  But somehow romcoms are corrupting because they're unrealistic?

Some of those I agree with and some of those feel like they had to come up with a couple so they went with it.  Let's face it, romcoms are about hope and the promise of a happily ever after.  We rarely see enough of the couples to really know how they'd function in a long term relationship in the real world but they don't live in the real world.  They live in a romcom. Sometimes my sense of happily ever after is triggered.  Other times, it's cynicism.

I agree with them about Say Anything because high school romances are most likely going to end.  But sometimes, like The Duff, I will just choose to believe.

I agree about Four Weddings and a Funeral which is why I don't consider it a romcom. I consider it a full on comedy. A comedy that's ruined by a weird unbelievable endings.

And I think she misread the ending to Sleepless In Seattle.  Yes, Meg Ryan's character did some creepyesque things but, to her credit, she did kind of realize it.  (It was the pre-Facebook version of Facebook stalking). The movie highlighted the magic that can happen when the right person holds your hand.  They felt that magic.  Whether it plays out the way it  played out with Sam's wife is left in the air.  There's room for a cynical interpretation that the distance will ultimately doom their relationship or that Annie will start snooping through his texts--and Sam will forget that magic as deeply as he remembers what he and his wife had.  Or, maybe it's just fate and they'll live happily ever after.  (They will! and everything that seems creepy when you're not interested in the person can be charming when blinded by love. Hmph.)

Now, How To Lose a Guy in 10 Days is brilliant in the first half but fell apart for me in the second so I am probably more cynical with that duo.  Just like I'm a cynic for The Wedding Planner.  But no one is wrong for believing because, hey, change is possible. And really, if we're asked to a man putting on a suit gives him special powers, then we can believe two imperfect people can find a way in fiction.

Edited July 8, 2017 by Irlandesa

[twoods]

I can't believe While You Were Sleeping was on that list- the leads are meant for eachother! Still one my favorite movies.

 

Watched the Duff again, and I still love it. I feel that it gets better with every rewatch. I remember another movie I saw a long time ago that exceeded my expectations like Duff did- Win a Date With Tad Hamilton. I thought it was going to be cheesy (parts definitely were), but it was surprisingly romantic. I'm bummed that it's never on TV. 

 

Even if this miniseries is more romantic than romcom, I can never get tired of watching North and South. Richard Armitage was absolutely mesmerizing- for those that have not seen it on Netflix and have four hours to spare, you will not be sorry. 

Edited July 8, 2017 by twoods

[Ms Blue Jay]

I have to admit I kind of roll my eyes when the media goes nuts over The Big Sick.  It's getting very good reviews. It's a romantic comedy, right?  Or at least similar.  Yet I feel like the same type of movie written , directed, or starring a woman would never get that critical acclaim.  "Sleeping with Other People" was written and directed by a woman.  I'm not sure what happened but it only made $3 million, for example.  I'm sure The Big Sick is good, I just can't believe it's getting like 97% on Rotten Tomatoes.  I would love this kind of support from insiders, the media, celebrities if it was a movie starring a bunch of women or with a female protagonist.

[Nidratime]

I saw The Big Sick early last week and, although I enjoyed it and thought it was well done, there is nothing all that unique about it. I think what has engendered the kudos are that the characters are not all that over-the-top or too far removed from reality which is probably a function of it being somewhat of a true story, based on the main actor and his real life wife ... even if some stereotypes are revisited. I think that many of the criticisms of rom-coms that others have who are not usually fans -- unlike myself -- are because they can't suspend disbelief the way they do with other genre movies ... as Irlandesa said above. It's like they're expecting a documentary, rather than a fictional romantic story with comedic elements that by its very definition requires that characters act over-the-top and situations be a little ridiculous, otherwise it's not going to be very comedic. Even the romantic comedies of the past -- *especially* the romantic comedies of the past -- which people have called out as the "golden age" of this genre have had these characteristics in spades. If they were made today, would people call them silly, unbelievable, not to be taken seriously by serious people? Of course they would!

[2727]

Watched Passengers (2016) yesterday and while I'm not sure its creators would call it a romcom, it was a romance and there were comedic elements.

A mishap on a space ship that's on a 120 year trip to a new colony planet causes one of the passengers to be woken from hibernation 90 years early. Eventually, from sheer loneliness and against his better self, he decides to hack the pod of another passenger and wake her up as well. The story then becomes their relationship, falling in love and having the requisite breakup. There's a pretty fun action section where the ship starts to fail and they have to figure out how to fix things.

I quite enjoyed it. Jennifer Lawrence and Chris Pratt star.

[JBC344]

22 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I have to admit I kind of roll my eyes when the media goes nuts over The Big Sick.  It's getting very good reviews. It's a romantic comedy, right?  Or at least similar.  Yet I feel like the same type of movie written , directed, or starring a woman would never get that critical acclaim.  "Sleeping with Other People" was written and directed by a woman.  I'm not sure what happened but it only made $3 million, for example.  I'm sure The Big Sick is good, I just can't believe it's getting like 97% on Rotten Tomatoes.  I would love this kind of support from insiders, the media, celebrities if it was a movie starring a bunch of women or with a female protagonist.

I'm not sure I'm following you.  The Big Sick is written by Kumail Nanjuani and Emily Gordon, the real life couple the movie is about.  It's also directed by Michael Showalter, his last movie "Hello, My name is Doris" which starred Sally Field was critically acclaimed. In terms of Buzz, I think it is getting maybe more press because of Kumail who is a well known comic, and it's produced by Judd Apatow.

I understand your point regarding gender issues but to be fair, the men involved in this project are staunch supporters of women especially in this industry. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Did I claim that they weren't?  Yeah, you are definitely not following me.  A man is at the helm of this romantic comedy (A man directed and another man co-wrote and starred) and it's getting 97% on Rotten Tomatoes.  That is an extremely, extremely high score for ANY movie, and ESPECIALLY a romantic comedy, a genre that is often derided, and I pay attention to the scores that my favourite films get, so yeah, I notice it.

Taking a bunch of romantic comedies that either starred, were directed by, or written by a woman, or a combination of all 3, these are the scores on Rotten Tomatoes.  I took my personal favourites from since 2014.

Sleeping With Other People - 63%
Fifty Shades Darker  - 10%
The Other Woman - 24%
Life Partners - 63%
How to be Single - 47%
Mother's Day - 7%

When men are involved with romantic comedies, they are given better critical acclaim. Look at Woody Allen movies.  When a movie stars a bunch of women, or is a romantic movie written or directed by a woman, it is looked upon worse by critics.   Do you really not see that?  I found one exception from recent years - Trainwreck at 85%.  And yes, the director was a male obviously, Judd Apatow, and of course he'd support his own movie.  (Same thing happened with Bridesmaids back in 2011.)

My overarching point is that many critics are white and male and tend to see inherent quality in films directed or written or starring a bunch of men, regardless of genre, whereas romantic comedies (Women's movies, where women are the protagonist of the rom-com) or movies starring a bunch of women are often seen as garbage.  Women's movies or movies seen to be about women's topics are often not respected.

Looking at some of my favourite movies of the 21st century, Sex and the City is one of them.  The Rotten Tomatoes score is 49%.  Gee. I wonder why male critics didn't like this film?  Looking at another romantic comedy from the exact same year, starring a man, from a male protagonist's point of view, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, why don't you go ahead and guess what the RT score is?  It's 85%.  

There is a bias.  I'm pointing it out.  The bias exists.  

I think some critics out there are just waiting to hand prizes to men for "daring" to make a romantic comedy yet when women do it, critics probably think it's "easy".... 

The person who wrote and directed my favourite romantic comedy of all time, Amy Heckerling, has had quite a roller coaster of a career.  If you are at all interested in the topic, you should read about her point of view.  Her last romantic comedy starring Michelle Pfieffer was not released theatrically in the US and was sent direct to DVD.  Against a 24 million dollar budget, it made 9.5 million back.

Edited July 9, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[JBC344]

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

Did I claim that they weren't?  Yeah, you are definitely not following me.  A man is at the helm of this romantic comedy (A man directed and another man co-wrote and starred) and it's getting 97% on Rotten Tomatoes.  That is an extremely, extremely high score for ANY movie, and ESPECIALLY a romantic comedy, a genre that is often derided, and I pay attention to the scores that my favourite films get, so yeah, I notice it.

Taking a bunch of romantic comedies that either starred, were directed by, or written by a woman, or a combination of all 3, these are the scores on Rotten Tomatoes.  I took my personal favourites from since 2014.

Sleeping With Other People - 63%
Fifty Shades Darker  - 10%
The Other Woman - 24%
Life Partners - 63%
How to be Single - 47%
Mother's Day - 7%

When men are involved with romantic comedies, they are given better critical acclaim. Look at Woody Allen movies.  When a movie stars a bunch of women, or is a romantic movie written or directed by a woman, it is looked upon worse by critics.   Do you really not see that?  I found one exception from recent years - Trainwreck at 85%.  And yes, the director was a male obviously, Judd Apatow, and of course he'd support his own movie.  (Same thing happened with Bridesmaids back in 2011.)

My overarching point is that many critics are white and male and tend to see inherent quality in films directed or written or starring a bunch of men, regardless of genre, whereas romantic comedies (Women's movies, where women are the protagonist of the rom-com) or movies starring a bunch of women are often seen as garbage.  Women's movies or movies seen to be about women's topics are often not respected.

Looking at some of my favourite movies of the 21st century, Sex and the City is one of them.  The Rotten Tomatoes score is 49%.  Gee. I wonder why male critics didn't like this film?  Looking at another romantic comedy from the exact same year, starring a man, from a male protagonist's point of view, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, why don't you go ahead and guess what the RT score is?  It's 85%.  

There is a bias.  I'm pointing it out.  The bias exists.  

I think some critics out there are just waiting to hand prizes to men for "daring" to make a romantic comedy yet when women do it, critics probably think it's "easy".... 

The person who wrote and directed my favourite romantic comedy of all time, Amy Heckerling, has had quite a roller coaster of a career.  If you are at all interested in the topic, you should read about her point of view.  Her last romantic comedy starring Michelle Pfieffer was not released theatrically in the US and was sent direct to DVD.  Against a 24 million dollar budget, it made 9.5 million back.

Wow, not sure of why you seem to have such disdain for my response but ok. 

First off, I'm an actor in this industry so trust me when I tell you I don't need a history lesson about what my female counterparts go through to get the same respect and opportunity nor am I blind to the plight and struggle for equal treatment.  Nor do I necessarily disagree with a lot of what you actually said above.  My main reason for responding to your public post was that you yourself admitted that you actually hadn't seen the movie and you were in disbelief that it was "that" good. 

Personally I thought it was an odd choice of a movie to make your point on (a point that should be made) when you hadn't seen said movie and the people (men) behind said movie are actually men who are fighting for those women who don't receive equal/fair treatment.

Now as far as your example above with SATC and Forgetting Sarah Marshall, I completely agree that SATC is a far superior movie and I never saw the appeal of FSM. 

I think it would be interesting to actually look at these biased statistics against box office.  Critical acclaim is great but box office is what really counts.

[Amethyst]

On 7/7/2017 at 11:11 PM, Irlandesa said:

I agree about Four Weddings and a Funeral which is why I don't consider it a romcom. I consider it a full on comedy. A comedy that's ruined by a weird unbelievable endings.

It doesn't help that Carrie (Andie McDowell) had no real personality to speak of and viewers were just hoping that Charles and Fiona would ride off into the sunset.  And I usually hate the "falls for the best friend at the last minute" trope, but I would let in go in that case.  Still don't understand why Charles fell in love with Carrie, and I still don't get why they were so averse to marriage.

I think romcoms are in a state of flux because studios aren't investing or promoting them anymore.  They used to be easy money, but now viewers are flocking to superhero films, franchises, and sci-fi.  I feel like studios dub anything that's good as the second coming of the romcom because they're desperate for a hit.  So I'm not surprised about The Big Sick.  Good for Kumail and all, but I'm not rushing to see it.

Love & Friendship was a big critical hit last year, but sadly made little money.  I really enjoyed Sleeping with Other People and How to Be Single.  The latter gets a lot of flak, but it was harmless movie and fun.

One of my all time favorites is Jump Tomorrow with Tunde Adebimpe.  If highly recommend it if you get the chance.

[methodwriter85]

Love and Friendship actually made a lot for a Whit Stillman film. He's never been a very commercial guy.

[twoods]

I need to check out How To be Single, along with Love and Friendship. Thanks for the heads up. 

I'm one of the few who enjoyed Something Borrowed. I had to look past how awful the characters were to eachother to enjoy the chemistry between the leads. I got why they were so torn because they missed out on how they felt in law school. I wish both of them weren't so chicken shit regarding their feelings but I ended up liking the movie despite its flaws. 

[aradia22]

Quote

My overarching point is that many critics are white and male and tend to see inherent quality in films directed or written or starring a bunch of men, regardless of genre, whereas romantic comedies (Women's movies, where women are the protagonist of the rom-com) or movies starring a bunch of women are often seen as garbage.  Women's movies or movies seen to be about women's topics are often not respected.

Looking at some of my favourite movies of the 21st century, Sex and the City is one of them.  The Rotten Tomatoes score is 49%.  Gee. I wonder why male critics didn't like this film?  Looking at another romantic comedy from the exact same year, starring a man, from a male protagonist's point of view, Forgetting Sarah Marshall, why don't you go ahead and guess what the RT score is?  It's 85%.  

There is a bias.  I'm pointing it out.  The bias exists.  

I think some critics out there are just waiting to hand prizes to men for "daring" to make a romantic comedy yet when women do it, critics probably think it's "easy".... 

Quote

I think romcoms are in a state of flux because studios aren't investing or promoting them anymore.  They used to be easy money, but now viewers are flocking to superhero films, franchises, and sci-fi.  I feel like studios dub anything that's good as the second coming of the romcom because they're desperate for a hit.  So I'm not surprised about The Big Sick.  Good for Kumail and all, but I'm not rushing to see it.

 

I think there have been some good points made all around. But it's also difficult to have these conversations when there are questions of personal taste. I could easily point to some of these female-starring or female-directed or female-written movies and pick at their poor quality or even some misogynistic leanings. But I do think that criticism is subjective and intensely influenced by your identity, worldview, what you've experienced, what you've been taught to see as "good," etc. so I definitely get the argument about a bias with male critics or even just critics who've been brought up to see through a certain lens (e.g. film school, Western civilization, etc.). 

I also think that men are far more praised and the flaws of their movies are more overlooked. That's a whole big conversation. And I agree it's especially annoying when they do something traditionally seen as female. Father picks up the kids from school one day? He's a hero. Mother does it? She's supposed to. Man writes a female action hero? He's the bestest feminist ever and we should let him mansplain feminism and strong female characters to us whenever he feels like doing so. Woman writes a female action hero? Here is a list of 100 things that are wrong with the movie. And also it's just a rip off of something a man wrote. 

One day when I'm less tired (even though it's not really a comedy) we should talk about James Cameron and Titanic.

As for the business side, I think something that also gets lost is that making movies is a crazy process and it's amazing that something good comes out at the end with all the cooks involved. With female actors or creatives at the helm, I don't think it's a stretch to imagine they're not getting a lot of support. The budgets aren't as big. The studios may not invest the same kinds of resources. They may not have the same kind of creative control. They may get too many studio notes that twist the movie into something they hadn't intended. Or alternately, they may not be getting helpful support and feedback, especially with things like a good cinematographer or editor or assistant AD or fight choreographer or special FX people or test screenings or helpful script doctors/dramaturgs... so of course the movie that results doesn't seem like it's of the same quality. 

[Athena]

Watch your tone when replying to your fellow posters. Always be civil and if not, then ignore the poster and move along. Thank you.

[VCRTracking]

Is it bad that it wasn't until Bruce Almighty that I realized how good an actress Jennifer Aniston can be? I always liked her on Friends and thought she was funny but she legit made me cry in the theater.

Here's a great interview from last year. Quentin Tarantino and Stephen Colbert discuss sincerely enjoying romcoms, how You've Got Mail actually made a good point about big chain stores putting small ones out of businesses and how Tarantino cried on a plane watching Ghosts of Girlfriends Past.

Edited July 10, 2017 by VCRTracking

[twoods]

FYI, a lot of romcoms are on sale on Prime day, plus an extra 10% off for Prime members. 

[aradia22]

@twoods Any idea which ones? Amazon is crazy to navigate sometimes. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

Same question...  Of course nothing I want on Amazon seems to be discounted.

Edited July 11, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[twoods]

That sucks! Usually I put in romantic comedy in the prime day search bar and the ones that are an extra 10% off will come up (under prime deal). There's a bunch of the four movies in one, love actually, cutting edge,  When Harry Met Sally, Fever Pitch This Means War, etc. Some aren't on sale but are cheap and the extra 10% off. Good luck.

Edited July 11, 2017 by twoods

[Irlandesa]

After all the talk of Wedding Crashers potentially being a romcom, I sought it out to watch.  There were things I liked about it but there were also things that made me feel really uncomfortable.  Like how Vince Vaughn's character did appear to be raped.  And also targeted sexually by both Isla Fisher's character and the brother.  Then the weird turnaround where he decided the crazy was totally his thing.

And then there is how Owen Wilson kept after Rachel McAdams after she kept saying no and the fact that she was still engaged even though she clearly did not want the wedding.

I think I would have liked this movie more if they had just made one or two minor tweaks to reduce the creepiness factor of it all.  We all talk about the suspension of disbelief and I guess this movie took it a step or two too far for me.

[Ms Blue Jay]

I agree, the movie is chock-ful of cliches and is totally problematic.  I hate how Rachel's character has absolutely no agency and is (as women are ALWAYS in these types of male driven movies) engaged to a complete asshole with no agency or assertiveness to do something about her situation until a man rescues her.  OF COURSE!

And to add to your complaints, Jane Seymour's character is incredibly sexually aggressive towards Owen's, too!  Forcing him to touch her?!

However, it's always been one of my favourites.  Vince and Owen, especially Vince, are hysterical.  Vince's performance is one for the ages.  I also like the DVD commentary where it's just the two of them bantering.  As a comedy, if I could erase the bad parts (LOL) it's great.  Will Ferrell at the end too.

Off this topic, I just rewatched "It's Complicated".  One of my favourites.  I used to have minor complaints about this movie in 2009, but I've watched it almost once a year since then and basically, I love it.  I love Nancy Meyers.

Edited July 17, 2017 by Ms Blue Jay

[aradia22]

The trailer sells this as an unconventional rom-com but it could also be a drama.

[methodwriter85]

The Big Sick was a good movie and it had it's funny moments, but man it got depressing at some points.

Spoiler

It does have a realistic yet happy ending.

[Irlandesa]

In the trailers thread, I saw the trailer for The Incredible Jessica James and thought that it kind of looked like a romcom. 

 

The best part about the trailer is that I realized the movie was going to drop on Netflix only a week later.  That day was today and I watched it.  It made me chuckle.  And it made me smile.  A lot.  I don't know if I'd technically call it a romcom since romance was part of the movie but it also covered her professional struggles, her relationship with the students she taught/mentored and her relationship with her friends/family.

But there was romance and it was romance I rooted for even through some of the more "indie-movie" parts of the story.  She was trying to get over an ex-boyfriend and starts dating a man, played by Chris O'Dowd, struggling to get over his divorce.  (But hey, what a novelty, a romcom that knows it's much better to have the specter of a former relationship hanging over a duo rather than a current one.)  It depicts some of the messiness that this kind of situation would probably have but overall done in a way that felt very adult.  But it also has the witty-esque flirty banter that I love in romcoms and I like their chem. 

So this was a win for me.  Probably one of my favorite [sort of] romcoms that has come out in recent years and I'll rewatch it.  Maybe even before the weekend ends. I don't want to oversell it but I do want to pass on its existence for my fellow romcom lovers.  Some may not get into it but I do suspect others here will enjoy it as much as I did. Plus, it's really short.

Edited July 29, 2017 by Irlandesa