S05.E08: Scream for Me

[Writing Wrongs]

What was up with that weird Guardians of the Galaxy/PLL trailer?

[apgold]

I wish Hanna hadn't ripped up Zach's number if she was going to tell Aria.  She would have proof that he hit on her.  Poor Piper/Ella, I hope she finds out before they get married.

 

Troian's wig is back.  I'm assuming she cut or dyed her hair for another role and she's wearing the wig.  Toby looks much better with his haircut.  

 

I think the A tag was Melissa. She was in the Hastings house, caressing her riding cap fondly and then dug something up under the couch cushion. I wish they had shown what she was looking for.

 

Ali is back to being her manipulative self.  Having Noel Kahn pose as "A" was genius.  I bet she's used him before, too.  Just show him again next time.

Edited July 30, 2014 by apgold

[M1977G]

 

I'm glad that Ali really is a psychopath. I'm really beginning to think she is Uber A and is messing with everyone in that whole town.

Ali definitely is sociopathic, and if she is Uber A, she's an escalating psychopath, too.  Part of me loves this idea, and finds it somewhat plausible--desirable, even, since I don't want to see Ali be redeemed when all is said and done with the show.  By going to jail and doing penance, maybe, but not being cleared as a scared girl who had to do bad things just to stay alive.  The way Ali loves to play up her fears of danger is truly crazy, and goes way back, at least to that first Halloween episode when she made the girls think she was in mortal danger and then just laughed and assured them they'd passed her test.  Now that she's returned, she has made a spectacle of herself to her dad and friends' parents, telling them of her dark years as a kidnap victim, which the girls know is a big old lie.  And the way Ali touches her throat in this episode after A leaves the musical note (ha), looking so terrified at the memory of being choked and attacked in her house--or the way she fretted in the bathroom (without checking the stalls for listeners) about the scarf covering her bruises.  These moments could be Ali just playing more of the same old damsel in distress, just escalated to higher and more twisted stakes.  With Ali playing at "PTSD without a net" for Hanna's mom for the whole episode, I caught myself wondering how traumatized Ali really is.  But her confession at the end of the episode, that she had Noel Kahn break in to fake her endangerment to support her lie about being kidnapped, reinforced my general belief that, however Ali might be a victim, she's very much an agent of her own peril who endangers those who love her--and conscience doesn't weigh that heavily into it.  

 

Speaking of Noel Kahn, what on earth does she have on him?!  He better not be entranced by Ali's magical vagina.  I will be beyond disappointed in him.  I will be more disappointed though if he doesn't show his face back in Rosewood soon.  

 

Toby setting his eye on earning a badge is the writers' effort to make his character relevant the next few seasons.  I LOLed when Spencer gave him the pep talk about, "if this is what it takes to end this thing, then do it.  Graduate early!"  I predict this is exactly what they're going to do. Toby will excel in the police academy for maybe half a season (that's like 2 weeks in Rosewood), and then he'll become a prodigy detective in 2 more episodes, giving him plenty of time to expose Beta A (surely not Uber A just yet!) in next season's finale (6A or 6B).  Me?  I prefer Spencer and Hanna as my detectives.  And I loved Spencer in her detective mode this week!  Not so subtle with the line of questioning, Spence, but good questions to see if Ali knew Bethany, and what her mom was up to at the stables and Radley.  Too bad you nearly got blinded for your efforts.  Guess Emily has a real reason to fear horses now.

Edited July 30, 2014 by M1977G

[mac123x]

 

Good on Emily for catching Sydney's NYC slip up. I hope she tells the other girls and they get their sleuth on.

 

I couldn't tell if Sydney slipped of if it was a deliberate provocation to try to get Emily to confirm that she's been to New York.  It was just a weird thing to say.  "My father opens yogurt stands all over the country, maybe you saw one when you were in New York."  The look on Sydney's face (that I could see past her lips) didn't come across as "I screwed up" so much as "damn, she didn't fall for my ploy".  I still don't understand why Sydney is fishing for this information, because she's in cahoots with Mona and Mona already knows they were in NYC.  Maybe Sydney is hoping one of the PLLs will accidentally reveal something more incriminating.  "Oh, yeah, we stopped and got frozen yogurt right after we killed Shana". 

 

Given their general stupidity, I guess that's not an unreasonable expectation.

[lorikauai]

Bethany threw a bucket at Mrs. D for wanting to be called "Auntie Jessica".  So 1) actually her daughter and the Twin Theory is reality or 2) actually aunt-niece, which probably means the Twin Theory applies to Jessica having a twin.  Regardless, it looks like they're going to say Bethany clocked Alison and Mrs. D buried her to protect Bethany.  Which would make Alison's near-death and burial unrelated to the A shenanigans that led up to Ali's disappearance.  Bethany = Cousin Nate

 

Except we still have the issue of how Bethany ended up dead and buried in the same spot. That could be directly related to A.

 

 

So we have another Rosewood creeper. I guess so many of them are dead it's time for some fresh blood. Poor Hanna. Aria was awful to her. Emily and Spencer didn't believe her. And of course it happened right after A singled her out for blabbing. You'd almost think A set this up too but I don't see how that's possible.

 

When Rhonda was talking about the rich lady checking out Bethany and Aria assumed it was Mrs. D I was thinking it might really turn out to be someone else like Mrs. H or Ezra's mom. But then we have the stable guy who said she wanted to be called Aunt Jessie so I guess it was her.

 

I thought Ali's set-up of Ashley was super obvious. Pam wasn't buying her story so she upped the ante. I mean the sleeping in the closet thing and being too scared to go out. Yeah right. I loved that the detective saw right through her. She probably understands what is going on better than the Liars. Yet another mention of Noel Kahn and we still don't get to see him. Come on show.

 

So Emily and Spencer went to the stables and found Melissa's helmet. So Melissa knew Bethany. Or she didn't and the helmet was put there by A. I laughed when Emily asked Spencer why she asked if Ali had ever come riding with Bethany. Because Ali has been so honest with them until now. Ha.

[ottoDbusdriver]

With Ali playing at "PTSD without a net" for Hanna's mom for the whole episode, I caught myself wondering how traumatized Ali really is

 

If Ali was truly imprisoned in a box for two years by some kidnapper, I can see why the cops don't believe her.  She's well fed with no signs of malnutrition, has good muscle tone, great hair, her fingers and fingernails are in good condition (if she was truly trapped she would have been trying to escape by digging/prying anything loose in order to try and escape) and her skin isn't really pale (which it would be after "supposedly" having been kept in the dark for two years) -- she looks more like she's been a spa for two years.

[Bort]

Troian's wig is back. I'm assuming she cut or dyed her hair for another role and she's wearing the wig. Toby looks much better with his haircut.

She didn't cut her hair or dye it, maybe Troian's time is tight and she doesn't have time to sit in the hair/makeup chair. A wig takes a good 1-2 hours off of prep time. The problem with that wig is that Troian's hair is so pretty, many of us notice that it's not up to its usual luminosity.

The look on Sydney's face (that I could see past her lips)

OMG, I almost snorted loudly at that. Luckily, mycubicle neighbors already give me weird looks (getting over bronchitis). Edited July 30, 2014 by kariyaki

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I really love that Tanner clearly doesn't believe Ali's stories and isn't trying to hide it AT ALL. While I understand Ashley getting upset about the way Tanner was questioning Ali after the break in, once again Tanner picked up on all the correct hints that Ali was lying. I mean, really, Ali must have supersonic hearing if she was able to hear the floorboards creaking from all the way upstairs during a thunderstorm. But maybe after being locked in a box for two years, her hearing just got really really good, right?

 

I'm 99% sure that Mrs. D was the one who took Bethany to the stables and brought her  gifts at Radley. Didn't Rhonda confirm that the lady in Bethany's drawing was the one who signed Bethany out?

[lorikauai]

I'm 99% sure that Mrs. D was the one who took Bethany to the stables and brought her  gifts at Radley. Didn't Rhonda confirm that the lady in Bethany's drawing was the one who signed Bethany out?

 

She just said "the rich lady with the beige purse" so I thought they were leaving it ambiguous until the Aunt Jessie thing at the stables.

[mercfan3]

Do we know what Ezra's mother's name is? 

[lorikauai]

Do we know what Ezra's mother's name is? 

 

Dianne Fitzgerald.

[tennisgurl]

Aria, you are literally the last person to judge anyone on their relationships with older men. And poor Hanna didn't even do anything! At the time, I was sure Zach was a creep, but now that I think about it, it might have been something else. Was he handing her a card for an alcohol counseling class? Probably not, but I could see them doing that as a twist. It just seems so stupid to hit on the friend of your fiancés teenage daughter! Granted, most of the creepy people on this show don't tend towards subtlety, but this is a bit much, even for this hellhole of a town.

 

They really should have Caleb talk about his Ravenswood experiences a bit. If he and Hanna are going to keep up this teen drinking spiral, we should at least get more insight into why its happening!

 

Random observation: I really liked Emily's coat at the horse stables.  

 

Who knew "What Child is This?" could sound so creepy? Or that all the girls were in choir? Or that its nearing Christmas? I honestly cant wait for a PLL Christmas special! I bet Hanna spikes the eggnog, there are hijinks involving mistletoe, and A dropping a body dressed like Santa down a chimney, Gremlins style.

[mercfan3]

I would buy that Zach was trying to help if he hadn't of squeezed her thigh and told her he liked bad girls. 

[Jack Shaftoe]

I bet the Zack thing will turn out to be just a wacky misunderstanding and writers will be patting themselves on the back for being so clever. Or he will be just another Rosewood creepy dude. In both cases this storyline is a waste of time.

 

Ashley sure is taking the stupid pills these days, a blind man would have noticed Hanna's drinking problem and Alison's obvious lies by now. And Alison? Please die in a fire soon. Aria? Are you an idiot? Actually, don't answer that. Her rage at Hanna reminded of the time when she thought Hanna was jealous of her and Ezra. The world doesn't revolve around you, bitch. Hanna has no reason to why about Zach or to try to seduce him.

 

So, so silly. Hanna is the only bright spot.

 

Oh, and they still haven't shown a photo of this Bethany Young. It's like they are yet to decide whose evil twin she will turn out to be...

 

 

And the biggest question of all, how long are they going to put up with Ali's lies & plots? She tells them nothing, & these morons just keep backing her up. I'm sick of it.

 

Preach it. 

[mercfan3]

I still wouldn't call Ali a psychopath. 

 

Someone tried to kill her. Someone is threatening her. She doesn't even know if it's the same person. Her friends are different grades of idiots. (How many clues did they lose on her?). And the cops are corrupt and useless. Except the new lady..who is suspicious of Alison. It's reasonable that she's manipulative. She's trying to save her own skin.

 

Sure, a lot of it's her fault...sort of. She makes it worse by lying, but regardless of what she did, she didn't deserve an attempted murder, to be buried by her own mother, and a stalker. 

[jane1978]

Ali is definitely manipulator and selfish, but she told the girls this time. That´s a huge growth from Ali and also the main difference from the year after "the first secret" where Ali became haunted by "A" but kept everything from the girls. Her methods can seem drastic and she is no big on democracy, but she is no longer keeping them in dark. I like Ali and I was 100 percent sure she staged the attack so when she told the girls at the end I felt so relaved. There is still a chance for her. I also think she was 100 percent honest when she approached Hanna at the school and asked what´s wrong. (and no, she will never be a good lovable girl, but the world needs some good liars and manipulators as well, maybe she could become a lawyer :-)

 

Sad that Zack is a creep, but maybe "A" has forced him to do it? Maybe he got some emails and now is just trying to protect Ella? They will need some excuse why Ella can´t stay  and sending her on a honeymoon sounds better than her leaving alone and crying. 

 

What I love at this season is we now have three "A" teams and we can never be sure who staged what. It can be Ali trying to support her story, it can be somebody from Mona team or it can be the real "A". And it´s not just we as viewers, it´s Ali and the girls as well. Nobody can tell what´s real threat and what´s just a childplay. 

 

AB is so enjoying the part of a drunk truth teller. It´s fun and I´m glad they choose alcohol as her next conflict instead of making her a bulimic again. But Caleb, honestly, if you truly love her you have to start realize how toxic influence you have on her right now. I´m almost ready to side with Ali in this. And I quess poor Ashley still believes Caleb is all good and responsible so she doesn´t worry at all Hanna spends so much time with him.

 

Last thing, I never saw the resemblance of Hanna and Alison when SP was still a child. But now when she is 18 and no longer the skinny preteen it´s uncanny. They could really play twins. It´s amazing how the casting knew it even when Sasha was only 12 years old when she won the role.

[GaT]

Someone tried to kill her. Someone is threatening her. She doesn't even know if it's the same person. 

We don't actually know this because Ali still won't tell anyone what is really going on. Just like she had Noel Kahn do the thing in Hanna's house to bolster her story, she could have set everything else up. Hell, Ali could have been the one who killed Bethany, & if it comes down to it, her mother too. The more she lies, the more I disbelieve everything.

[lion10]

Aria was a fucking bitch this episode.  Hanna comes to her and she accuses Hanna of always being the problem?  That's just plain inaccurate and demonstrates zero empathy.  At least Spencer and Emily didn't dismiss Hanna out of hand.  They just wanted to make sure it actually happened.  But looking back, Aria and Hanna have always been the most distant of the Liars so...who knows.  But still, to accuse Hanna of being the problem when Aria's still dating a man who purposefully stalked her and videotaped her and her friends is really rich.

 

With this stuff about "the rich lady" it seems that someone definitely has either a twin or lost sister.  I really like this season so far, it feels like PLL isn't just spinning its wheels in regards to the central mystery and character development of the girls.  But why does Hanna have a drinking problem again?  It feels kind of forced.

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

 

I still wouldn't call Ali a psychopath.

 

Someone tried to kill her. Someone is threatening her. She doesn't even know if it's the same person. Her friends are different grades of idiots. (How many clues did they lose on her?). And the cops are corrupt and useless. Except the new lady..who is suspicious of Alison. It's reasonable that she's manipulative. She's trying to save her own skin.

 

Trying to save your own skin doesn't exclude the possibility of also being a psychopath. And in any event, if Alison considers the cops to be useless and thinks they can't really protect her anyway, so why the new lies? Why did she return to Rosewood in the first place? Running away again or at least going with the other girls to investigate would help convince me that Alison is indeed scared and is not just as stupid as the Liars (except for Hanna) are these days. Because A has had ample opportunity to murder her since she has come back and looking sad and lying about kidnapping is doing nothing to stop that.

Edited July 30, 2014 by Jack Shaftoe

[cuddlingcrowley]

I think that the writers want us to think Zach is a Creeper. Personally I think it's another red herring. I think he was referring to Hanna's drinking not coming on to her. Even though the touching was creepy. But leave it to IMK to make every gesture sexual in some way.

 

 

Yeah, no. I really can't interpret Zach's actions as anything but him hitting on Hanna and being sleazy as hell which sucks because I used to think he was hot *sigh*.

 

The thing I hated most about Hanna's Zach storyline is how realistic it was for Hanna to blame herself for wearing a short skirt and then for her own friends to ask if her she was drunk and/or misinterpreting what happened. This is the problem with society. Guys get to be predatory assholes and the victims get blamed by their own friends and by themselves. 

This. That was what infuriated me about this storyline. All three of those girls (particularly Aria) better apologize to Hanna for not believing her and immediately assuming it was her fault. Zach was clearly preying on her because she was drunk and would therefore not be believable to other people. I would have been a lot more comfortable with this storyline if he were preying on her while she was sober. This just adds to the societal viewpoint that all drunk girls deserve to be preyed upon because they were clearly asking for it.

But I'll say this, as much as it was obvious victim blaming. (Which, was actually blatantly said in this episode when Ashley was yelling at the cop.) At least the girls weren't claiming that it was Hanna's fault that the guy felt her up. Emily and Spencer asked if she misinterpreted because she was drunk. Aria lashed out and inferred that Hanna was the one doing the flirting.

But the whole story line is as accurate as when Nate got all entitled because Maya/Emily wouldn't date him. There's a lot of feminist theory in this show. And it's very self aware in that way.

 

 

All of this. I'm not that bothered by Emily and Spencer's reactions because they were caught off guard and unfortunately we all have those kinds of things internalized but I'm sure they'd stand by Hanna on the long run. Aria was simply unforgivable. My heart kept screaming it was out of character but we all know Aria can go batshit insane at the snap of a finger (trashing Byron's office, blackmailing Byron, trashing Ezra's apartment...oh hello parallel I hadn't notice until now. Aria's daddy issues man...).

 

I really want to see karma level retribution for her. 

 

Seriously Spencer is way to much of a doormat with him.

 

 

 

I try and try and try to see things from Spencer's perspective and how she must desperately need someone, anyone, to be her support system when her family is utterly insane but BY GOD I JUST WISH SHE WAS STRONGER. She's sort of reminding me of one of my best friends right now which really doesn't help my frustration.

 

 

We found out some more weird details about Mrs. D and Bethany Young, moving us a tiny bit closer to finally finding out who uber-A is.

 

 

And those weird details were surprisingly interesting! Thank you, show!

 

When Rhonda said that "some rich lady was taking her [bethany] to the circus", my first thought was Mrs Fitzgerald.  I mean Aria jumping straight to the conclusion that it was Mrs Dilaurentis seems like a red herring to me.  The Dilaurentis' do seem well off but they don't scream "rich" like the Fitzgerald family.  Bring back Mrs Fitz and making her shady as all hell would be a great move, especially if it implicates Ezra at the same time.

 

 

Oooooooooooh! I really think you're onto something there!

 

 

I guess the one really useful thing we learned from this episode is that it's almost Christmas since they were singing "What Child Is This" (although since when were any of the girls in choir, let alone all five of them?).

 

 

No idea, but random awesome shit like that is why I watch this show. That scene was almost as good as the choir in Gossip Girl singing "Glamorous".

 

I still can't blame Ali completely. She's manipulative and strategic and she doesn't care who she hurts if it's necessary to save her own skin. But she also has a reason to be that way. Which people forget.

 

 

Yup. This is where I'm standing and i'm glad the bitch is back. I'm pretty much done with victim!Ali and I really hate saying this because I think it's a very important aspect of her character given all she's been through (even if it wasn't a kidnapping) but the writers really need to move this along, same with Hanna's drinking problem. It's starting to feel like this season is dragging

 

One thing you can say about Ali, though, is that she sure has good taste in surrogate moms. Ashley is pure awesome. 

 

I really wish Hanna had kept the card he gave her and shown it to Aria.  "I'm not making it up, he gave me his phone number".

 

 

I initially thought that's why she took it in the first place. Right after I had this real moment of horror where I wondered if Hanna had actually arranged that meet with Zach *shudders*.

Edited July 31, 2014 by cuddlingcrowley

[FAU]

 

And the biggest question of all, how long are they going to put up with Ali's lies & plots? She tells them nothing, & these morons just keep backing her up. I'm sick of it.

 

Exactly and it makes her victim schtick all the worse to sit through.  The Liars are dumb enough to put up with this bs, the lies were obviously going to fall apart and it's already pretty obvious during the interrogation scenes, don't need to blame Hanna for that, they're already messing things up for themselves.

[mercfan3]

See, I still think Aria's reaction is understandable. She was already mad. When she said "You're always the problem" she meant since the return from New York and her recent drinking. And this isn't some creepy old guy. It's a guy that has never hit on any of the girls previously, he had been great for Aria's mother. And he's the man Piper is marrying. 

 

Aria's reaction, to me, was a mix of the stress of what's going on in general, annoyance at Hanna's drinking, and fear that Hanna is creating more drama... Once she calmed down, it seemed like there was a bit of "maybe Hanna was telling the truth." Or at least that's how Lucy played it. 

[cuddlingcrowley]

mercfan3, I don't disagree with your take on things. That's how I read Aria's character as well and as I watched the episode I tried empathize with her position because it was a shitty one to be in, no doubt. I don't blame her for not immediately believing Hanna and turning on Zach because Hanna has been acting pretty crazy lately so I I get her having a moment of doubt like Spencer and Emily had but she simply took it way, waaaaaaaay too far, imo. The way she attacked Hanna was simply merciless and completely unnaceptable as far as I'm concerned, but YMMV.

Edited July 31, 2014 by cuddlingcrowley

[mjgchick]

But she's not the only one to have bad things happen to her, so this poor Ali stuff rings false especially since I'm sick of her victim schtick.

 

She's dragging the other Liars down, piling on more lies while they continue to suffer for it and she gets to hide behind them with preferential treatment, the way she staged the Noel A in the house.

MTE, The only people who seem to get hurt by all this is the Liars and other casualties. Ali is playing everyone right now.

 

The difference between Aria and the other Liars reaction is Emily and Spencer were willing to listen to Hanna. Aria (you know the one who has barely had to deal with A until now.) didn't even concider that her best friend who she has known a lot longer than Zach is telling the truth. Hanna who looked extremely uncomfortable telling Aria this secret. How come Aria is ok with beliving Ali but when it's Hanna the girl who has had her back for the last two yrs is the liar? And Honestly Spencer should understand where Hanna is coming from because not a week ago the girls didn;t believe her about Ezra because she too was on some form of drug.

I really don't get others in saying how Spencer is a doormat towards Toby. Didn't she choose her friends over him by spilling his moms secret? She took him back but I'm not sure we're suppose to think that she's weak for taking him back. It could be because I'm biased but I like Spencer wayyyyyyyyyyy more than I like Toby.

Edited July 31, 2014 by mjgchick

[mercfan3]

mercfan3, I don't disagree with your take on things. That's how I read Aria's character as well and as I watched the episode I tried empathize with her position because it was a shitty one to be in, no doubt. I don't blame her for not immediately believing Hanna and turning on Zach because Hanna has been acting pretty crazy lately so I I get her having a moment of doubt like Spencer and Emily had but she simply took it way, waaaaaaaay too far, imo. The way she attacked Hanna was simply merciless and completely unnaceptable as far as I'm concerned, but YMMV.

Aria certainly wasn't nice. But she's in a completely different situation than Emily and Spencer were. Hanna is accusing her soon to be step father of hitting on her. That was likely to cause an already irritated Aria to lash out. 

 

It's not that I don't think Aria owes Hanna an apology. It's just that I understand her reaction. 

[larapu2000]

I'm just so glad Zach is a creeper!  I was beginning to worry about that guy.

[emma675]

 

And the biggest question of all, how long are they going to put up with Ali's lies & plots? She tells them nothing, & these morons just keep backing her up. I'm sick of it.

This! It's 4 against one, why do they keep going along with Ali's lies?? The longer they let her manipulate the situation, the worse it's going to be for them when all of this eventually comes out (and probably comes out in the way Ali wants it to). They know Ali's history, people are actually getting hurt and dying, and there's actually a semi-decent female cop on this. I don't understand why they just don't take control of the situation from Ali. Especially Spencer, the uber control freak.

 

Caleb, Caleb, Caleb. Look, I know some crazy stuff went down in Ravenswood and you've got some ghost PTSD or whatever, but when Toby is more pulled together than you are, we've got problems. Get your shit together, man.

 

And show? If you're going to mention Noel Kahn, you need to show Noel Kahn.

[GaT]

I don't know. I feel like I hate the Zach storyline just because victim blaming situation but if they make it all "a misunderstanding" deal.. that makes no sense to me. I don't think they'd do that. We know how it looked to us and why would they have the other girls act awful about the situation to Hanna as if it's her fault if it's all going to be a misunderstanding? That makes no sense. 

The only reason for this plot is to create drama between Aria & Hanna, so if it turns out to be a misunderstanding later on, they don't care, it accomplished what it was supposed to.

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

See, I still think Aria's reaction is understandable. She was already mad. When she said "You're always the problem" she meant since the return from New York and her recent drinking. And this isn't some creepy old guy. It's a guy that has never hit on any of the girls previously, he had been great for Aria's mother. And he's the man Piper is marrying.

 

What does it matter what kind of man Zach is (ignoring for the moment the fact that Aria barely knows him)? Hanna has no reason to lie, period. It would be perfectly natural wonder if Hanna might not be mistaken but Aria, assuming the world revolves around her, thought Hanna concocted this story to spite her or actually tried to hook up with Zach.

 

 

I don't know. I feel like I hate the Zach storyline just because victim blaming situation but if they make it all "a misunderstanding" deal.. that makes no sense to me.

 

Well, of course it won't make sense. That's what wacky misunderstandings on TV are all about but unfortunately this doesn't stop writers from using them all the time.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Jack Shaftoe

[Captain Asshat]

Who knew "What Child is This?" could sound so creepy? Or that all the girls were in choir? Or that its nearing Christmas? I honestly cant wait for a PLL Christmas special! I bet Hanna spikes the eggnog, there are hijinks involving mistletoe, and A dropping a body dressed like Santa down a chimney, Gremlins style.

Former HS choir kid here. They may not be that close to Christmas on the show. We started learning and rehearsing Christmas songs in September to be ready for performances in December. Then again, it's this show, so who knows? "A" Very Special PLL Christmas could be airing in late August.

[mac123x]

If they're following their usual broadcasting schedule, the Christmas special will air around Halloween.  And be creepy as hell, with a bunch of SantA's running around doing weird crap.

[Crim]

Welcome back, Ali! I have missed you. I agree that Ali telling the girls about Noel was different from old Ali behavior. Noel is definitely going above and beyond for Ali; very interesting.

 

I am not surprised by Aria's rage and incredibly crappy reaction. She is avoidant, and Hanna brought a problem to her. Worse, by telling her in confidence, Hanna asked her to do something, which is a nightmare for Aria. So I thought it an awful reaction, but in character. Sadly. Bonus on the Aria front: no Ezria this episode!

 

I could see a parent not noticing Hanna's rampant drinking, but not Ashley who is a perceptive parent and also has experience with drinking. And Hanna keeps beer cans in her locker? That was so random. IMO the storyline could have used a bit of polishing. I don't agree that Caleb had the right idea with running away from Rosewood: it's better for Hanna to at least graduate. It sounded to me like Caleb would return to his old lifestyle, moving around, sleeping wherever, making money however he can, except now with copious drinking and waking up at noon. That was a nice touch, btw, her call waking him up at lunch, and I thought Hanna even sounded a bit disappointed. Maybe she'll eventually see the effects on him, even if she is unwilling to see them in her own life.

[maraleia]

Directing all of you to this recap of the show. Heather Hogan does these every week but this one is super important to read. I suggested in the comments that we should send this recap to Marlene King because I am still sickened by Ezria.The Zach situation and the prospect that Alison was raped when she was kidnapped has amplified my irritation with Marlene's lack of action on the Ezra front.

http://www.afterellen.com/pretty-little-liars-recap-5-8-scream-for-me/07/2014/

[mercfan3]

That was a fantastic article. 

 

Maybe I give the writers too much credit. But this show gets feminist theory right so often, and there have been enough hints that Ezria is wrong..that I do think we're going to go there. The writer's original perspective on Ezria is interesting...and quite frankly, I hadn't thought of before. To me, the second that Aria and Ezra had sex..it was wrong. It was inappropriate and he was taking advantage of the situation. For the writer to point out that Aria had complete control, and deserved to make that decision is an interesting argument. But I still don't know where I fall on that. 

 

This time, however, the writers seem to be building up hint after hint that Ezria is a bad pairing. We recently had the show parallel to Spencer's parents getting divorced. Where IMK was clearly suggesting that Ezra had just lied too much. We also had, for the first time, a PLL telling Aria not to go back to him. Sure, Ali's been supportive, but she's not as influential on Aria..and she's not as much of a friend to Aria, as Spencer is. We've also heard Ezra say some creepy stuff too her. I think the show is going to be responsible about this. 

Edited July 31, 2014 by mercfan3

[AmandaPanda]

If they're following their usual broadcasting schedule, the Christmas special will air around Halloween.  And be creepy as hell, with a bunch of SantA's running around doing weird crap.

 

They are not following their regular schedule. Rather than a Halloween episode in October, the Christmas episode will air during ABC Family's 25 Days of Christmas in December.

 

Directing all of you to this recap of the show. Heather Hogan does these every week but this one is super important to read. I suggested in the comments that we should send this recap to Marlene King because I am still sickened by Ezria.The Zach situation and the prospect that Alison was raped when she was kidnapped has amplified my irritation with Marlene's lack of action on the Ezra front.

http://www.afterellen.com/pretty-little-liars-recap-5-8-scream-for-me/07/2014/

 

Love that recap! I have little to no faith that IMK is going to end up portraying Ezria as anything other than true love. She has said in interviews that she loves the pairing. Lucy Hale has said in interviews that she thinks Ezra and Aria are meant to be. It's the biggest blind spot for IMK when it comes to her normally attentive views on feminist theory. 

[lion10]

Directing all of you to this recap of the show. Heather Hogan does these every week but this one is super important to read. I suggested in the comments that we should send this recap to Marlene King because I am still sickened by Ezria.The Zach situation and the prospect that Alison was raped when she was kidnapped has amplified my irritation with Marlene's lack of action on the Ezra front.

http://www.afterellen.com/pretty-little-liars-recap-5-8-scream-for-me/07/2014/

 

 

See, I'm on the fence about Marlene's plan for Ezria.  On the one hand, there was the #Ezriaforever and the fact that Aria forgave Ezra after what I assume was supposed to be his "redemption" with being shot for the girls.  And you have Ali urging Aria to forgive Ezra.  But on the other hand, Spencer did mock Ezra about how much he liked to watch things and it's ALISON that said Ezra was a good guy.  A girl who the show has all but confirmed is borderline lacking in empathy.  And I feel like the writers are definitely writing Ezra with a more sinister bent than they were before the fake A reveal, though that may be my own prejudice against Ezria.

 

With Alison, it's really hard to tell when she's being genuine and when she's playing the victim to manipulate people.  Alison was definitely on the run before the girls saw her and I never got the sense that she had escaped being kidnapped.  I thought she was just always on the run since her mom buried her alive.

 

Maybe the randomness of the Zach subplot is part of its point.  Guys who otherwise appear to be perfectly decent people can be revealed to be sexual predators and that's part of why people often don't believe the victim (other than sexism).  What Aria said was way out of line, especially for a friend.  She was needlessly cruel and my opinion of her has really worsened because of what she said.  How could a "friend" be so hurtful to someone who's so obviously upset? 

 

I like Heather's reviews of the show as I find she brings up issues and concepts that I don't really think about.  Her analysis on rape culture and blame shifting was really good about how people often unconsciously accept that sexual violence, especially against women is a given and so will victim blame instead of rightfully trying to get justice.  

 

I found it weird that she said for Ezra and Aria's relationship to be acceptable, Ezra needed to be as feminine as possible.  I get why it'd be best to reduce how sexual he was but why make him more feminine?  Is there something inherently more threatening about masculinity?  Masculinity is associated a lot more with violence in our culture than femininity but I get the feeling Heather is thinking of another aspect of masculinity since violence would obviously be unacceptable in a relationship.  So what about non-violent masculinity is worse than femininity that Heather is getting at?  If Ezra was a woman, wouldn't the situation be objectively just as bad?  Either way, an adult who is in a position of power above their student purposefully stalked and seduced them just to get material for their book.

Edited August 1, 2014 by lion10

[FAU]

 

See, I'm on the fence about Marlene's plan for Ezria.  On the one hand, there was the #Ezriaforever and the fact that Aria forgave Ezra after what I assume was supposed to be his "redemption" with being shot for the girls.  And you have Ali urging Aria to forgive Ezra.  But on the other hand, Spencer did mock Ezra about how much he liked to watch things and it's ALISON that said Ezra was a good guy.  A girl who the show has all but confirmed is borderline lacking in empathy.  And I feel like the writers are definitely writing Ezra with a more sinister bent than they were before the fake A reveal, though that may be my own prejudice against Ezria.

 

With Alison, it's really hard to tell when she's being genuine and when she's playing the victim to manipulate people.  Alison was definitely on the run before the girls saw her and I never got the sense that she had escaped being kidnapped.  I thought she was just always on the run since her mom buried her alive. Has anything been

 

Even if they're self aware to an extent, they're still pandering to those shippers and when they take up scenes especially with that big of a cop out, it affects the series and that's already saying a lot in a series full of red herring, fillers, and padding.

[mjgchick]

Actually.. I think Mona forced her hand in that. At least to some degree. And Emily's shoulder got all messed up because they were looking for the van Toby stole to get info from A about his mother. Spencer didn't let the other girls in on that for quite a few episodes. I don't think she ever had to make a choice, I believe she told Toby she would have to soon but then she never really had to. But.. I think she's a doormat, at least regarding the time when he was an A team member. She conveniently never mentions how he was lying to her for months. I love that she's putting EzrA in his place for lying for years and putting shame on Aria for getting involved but.. at the same time, Toby lied to her as well. I just don't get the Spoby love.

No I mean Spencer admitted to the Liars about whats been going on because she's loyal to them more. Toby even said it and thats why he left like an 8 year old. I get that Toby screwed up with the A stuff and owes Paige, Hanna and the woman he claims to love an huge apology but he didn't do it in a malisious (I need revenge on these bitches type of way.) I don't know I just don't hate Toby for what he did as much as I hate Ezra for what he did because he manipulated Aria into dating him. It could've been Hanna or Spencer he didn't give a fuck because he wanted to write a shitty novel. To my knowlowledge Toby didn't do it to hurt the girls. He just ended up hurting them either way because he is a dumb teen who got played by Mona.

Wow it sounds like I'm a huge Toby fan (I think the actor is sweet.) but I just think their are worse people on the show than him. Ali, Mona, Ezra, Jessica Delaurentis, etc... I'd say are worse people than him.

As for the Zack stuff, I have no idea why the writers would actually write a creeper when Ezra is just as bad as Zack but yet we're suppose to root for him? I've been where Hanna has been and it's so uncomfortable, but unlike her friends my brothers actually believed me.

Did you guys know that Sara Shepard still doesn't regret not keeping Ezria together? She's pretty much shone her disgust for the couple even on screen.

Edited August 1, 2014 by mjgchick

[emma675]

 

They are not following their regular schedule. Rather than a Halloween episode in October, the Christmas episode will air during ABC Family's 25 Days of Christmas in December.

Boo! With the exception of last year, I adored the Halloween episodes. They were so creepy and fun.

[FAU]

 

Did you guys know that Sara Shepard still doesn't regret not keeping Ezria together? She's pretty much shone her disgust for the couple even on screen.

 

Thankfully she had the good sense not to.

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Maybe I give the writers too much credit. But this show gets feminist theory right so often, and there have been enough hints that Ezria is wrong..that I do think we're going to go there.

 

Even if they do go there (at some point after hell freezes over, if you ask me), it would be years too late to prove any point in regards to feminism or rape culture. "Oh, yeah, we finally realized how gross this was, aren't we awesome?" isn't exactly an inspiring message.

 

I think the recapper is jumping the gun a little bit by describing Zach as sexual predator and him hitting on Hanna as sexual assault. Sure, he is a Rosewood man and so he probably is a sexual predator but for now to me he is more of a jerk who goes after other women right before his wedding than a predator. The recapper is a huge Paige fan and I don't think she refers to Paige as sexual predator for kissing Emily without the latter's consent on no less than three occasions. Not that Paige deserves to be described so, either, of course, I just don't think Zach is in the Ian and Ezra category yet.

 

 

Wow it sounds like I'm a huge Toby fan (I think the actor is sweet.) but I just think their are worse people on the show than him. Ali, Mona, Ezra, Jessica Delaurentis, etc... I'd say are worse people than him.

 

Yes, I would understand if people complained because they found Toby boring. I used to like him a lot but these days I often find him boring too. But the reaction to his scenes with Spencer puzzles me somewhat, because of all the negativity you would think he encouraged her to literally bury dead bodies or follow Aria's fashion style or something. 

Edited August 1, 2014 by Jack Shaftoe

[Bort]

I think the recapper is jumping the gun a little bit by describing Zach as sexual predator and him hitting on Hanna as sexual assault. Sure, he is a Rosewood man and so he probably is a sexual predator but for now to me he is more of a jerk who goes after other women right before his wedding than a predator. The recapper is a huge Paige fan and I don't think she refers to Paige as sexual predator for kissing Emily without the latter's consent on no less than three occasions. Not that Paige deserves to be described so, either, of course, I just don't think Zach is in the Ian and Ezra category yet.

I didn't even read that because I just knew that recapper was going to go off the deep end over it. I still like her recaps better than the ones TWoP had.

Yes, I would understand if people complained because they found Toby boring. I used to like him a lot but these days I often find him boring too. But the reaction to his scenes with Spencer puzzles me somewhat, because of all the negativity you would think he encouraged her to literally bury dead bodies or follow Aria's fashion style or something.

Yeah, I've never held Toby's stint as A against him all that much. It was only for a few months, they explained his motivations in a satisfactory way for me. I mean, I know it was a backpeddle, but I buy it. And hey, even Spencer herself was an A.

Edited August 1, 2014 by kariyaki

[lion10]

Is there any way to view the TWOP forum posts?  I can still search them on google but when I click on them, I can't view them on the actual site.

[Jack Shaftoe]

 

Is there any way to view the TWOP forum posts?

 

Yes - https://web.archive.org/web/20140330083128/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/

[Sakura12]

I usually love the Afterellen recaps because they are usually humorous. I was little upset that she went off on a tangent for that episode, I was looking forward to something funny. Not that it shouldn't have been talked about, but it wasn't necessary for the entire recap. This show shouldn't be taken as seriously for any storyline, despite having the best coming out scene in any tv show. It's a stupid show that now reminds of the Lamb Chops song (showing my age)

 

This is the show that never ends.
It goes on and on my friends.
Someone started showing it not knowing what it was,
and they'll continue it forever just because.
 

[lion10]

I usually love the Afterellen recaps because they are usually humorous. I was little upset that she went off on a tangent for that episode, I was looking forward to something funny. Not that it shouldn't have been talked about, but it wasn't necessary for the entire recap. This show shouldn't be taken as seriously for any storyline, despite having the best coming out scene in any tv show. It's a stupid show that now reminds of the Lamb Chops song (showing my age)

 

This is the show that never ends.

It goes on and on my friends.

Someone started showing it not knowing what it was,

and they'll continue it forever just because.

 

 

Seven seasons, but I need to find out how this ends.

 

I'm still confused why Ezra being more feminine as opposed to masculine would make his relationship with Aria more acceptable.  Male or female teacher, it's still the same situation of stalking, manipulation, and seduction.  I think Heather's looking at Ezria from perspective I'm not seeing.  Anyone know what she's talking about here?

Edited August 2, 2014 by lion10

[FAU]

Seven seasons, but I need to find out how this ends.

 

I'm still confused why Ezra being more feminine as opposed to masculine would make his relationship with Aria more acceptable.  Male or female teacher, it's still the same situation of stalking, manipulation, and seduction.  I think Heather's looking at Ezria from perspective I'm not seeing.  Anyone know what she's talking about here?

 

Dunno, stalker pedo fetish?

[DigitalCount]

TBH, I have to say it's probably referring to male sexuality as inherently dangerous--it's taken for granted in some circles. I don't know if that is what she was intending to say, but it was the impression I got.

 

And frankly it's a bit disappointing and somewhat off-putting to see some of the hyperbole the author of that article engaged in, especially since she makes some good points in it. For example, I don't think Emily or Spencer dismissed Hanna out of hand, but to hear her tell it, you'd think they reacted in the same way Aria did. I don't think they crossed into the shaming or second-guessing Aria did, particularly because Hanna was sober when she showed up at Aria's (right?) when the first time she was pretty drunk and could have potentially misinterpreted Zack's advances. Obviously we know he's scum, but I don't think Hanna was absolutely sure until he got into her car.

 

Speaking of, Aria, that girl? Dead to me. Why would Hanna show up looking like a soaked mess to tell her random lies? Hanna obviously thought it was important enough to drag herself through the rain to get there despite getting all the shade already. Maybe she could have toned down the immediate hostility? At the time, I was mostly surprised that she read her the riot act so thoroughly. So much for non-confrontational.

[Eneya]

Sociopaths are people who can not cope with the society, which is why they do not have functioning relationships with people and have issues living in the society. Psychopaths are people who do not feel empathy but mimic human emotions. Mostly, they are good manipulators. However, I am a bit peeved how horrible person is nowadays equated with a mental disorder of some kind.

[M1977G]

I am someone who has speculated that Ali is a sociopath, but not because I'm assuming that being a

 

horrible person is nowadays equated with a mental disorder of some kind.

I'm not under the impression that this comment was directed only at me since I haven't been holding that conversation by myself, and I agree wholeheartedly that we should be careful about how we throw around certain terminology (not just mental health related ones, but also sexual predator, etc).  Ali's levels of lying and manipulation do not seem entirely sane to me, and I started researching definitions of sociopathy when Ali returned at the start of the season.  What I've found is that Ali displays several qualities and behaviors that often are associated with the "cluster B" of personality disorders, which includes antisocial (includes sociopathic and psychopathic), borderline, and narcissistic personality disorders.  (There are three general clusters of personality disorders. Apparently, there are few cases that present in a strict "textbook" fashion, as there is a lot of overlap of symptoms, and people with p.d. can have more than one disorder.)

 

I've found the Mayo Clinic website to be very informative and easy to navigate, not to mention authoritative, so I'm sharing info from their site, which lays out the definitions, symptoms, causes, and treatments of each disorder.  (I'm only posting the symptoms they list for antisocial and narcissistic, and the links to those pages; for the definitions, causes, or treatments, look for the arrows at the bottom of the page.)  Antisocial personality disorder covers both sociopathy and psychopathy, and its signs and symptoms include (http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20027920):

Disregard for right and wrong
Persistent lying or deceit to exploit others
Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or for sheer personal pleasure
Intense egocentrism, sense of superiority and exhibitionism
Recurring difficulties with the law
Repeatedly violating the rights of others by the use of intimidation, dishonesty and misrepresentation
Child abuse or neglect
Hostility, significant irritability, agitation, impulsiveness, aggression or violence
Lack of empathy for others and lack of remorse about harming others
Unnecessary risk-taking or dangerous behaviors
Poor or abusive relationships
Irresponsible work behavior
Failure to learn from the negative consequences of behavior

Now I know that exhibiting some of those symptoms does not a sociopath make, but a lot of that sounds like Ali.  Additionally, many people who develop personality disorders experienced some kind of trauma or family dysfunction in their youth, and clearly the DiLaurentis house was not a healthy place for children (hello, Jason's substance abuse problem and Ali getting buried alive by her mother).

 

The Mayo Clinic lays out these symptoms for those with a narcissistic personality disorder (http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/narcissistic-personality-disorder/basics/symptoms/con-20025568):

 

 

Narcissistic personality disorder symptoms may include:

Believing that you're better than others
Fantasizing about power, success and attractiveness
Exaggerating your achievements or talents
Expecting constant praise and admiration
Believing that you're special and acting accordingly
Failing to recognize other people's emotions and feelings
Expecting others to go along with your ideas and plans
Taking advantage of others
Expressing disdain for those you feel are inferior
Being jealous of others
Believing that others are jealous of you
Trouble keeping healthy relationships
Setting unrealistic goals
Being easily hurt and rejected
Having a fragile self-esteem
Appearing as tough-minded or unemotional

Again, a lot of this sounds like Ali.  I think she exhibits fewer traits of the borderline personality disorder, but because there is so much overlap in this cluster, some do apply, but to post them here seems like overkill.  Personality disorders often develop in adolescence, and can become more serious between late teens and early 30s, and it is estimated that the majority of people affected do not get proper treatment. Estimates and findings differ, of course, but the National Institute of Mental Health has found that nearly 1 in 10 people suffer from personality disorder, and many of these people suffer from co-occurring serious mental health problems.  The NIMH estimates that antisocial personality disorder affects less than 1% of the population, and some studies have found narcissistic personality disorders in as much as 6% of some community samples.  It is thought that 50-75% of those with narcissistic p.d. are males.

 

Here is a link for those who might be interested in the theory that Ali has a multiple personality disorder (now called dissociative personality disorder), even though I am not on board with that theory:  http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/dissociative-disorders/basics/symptoms/con-20031012.  

 

Sorry this was so long!  But I was taking @Eneya seriously that we shouldn't just throw around such terms carelessly, I found this info relevant to the show and forum, thinking about this has made Ali (and Radley) more interesting to me, and it may be of use to someone.  

Edited August 4, 2014 by M1977G