S05.E19: Deck the Halls with Drama

[RealReality]

4 hours ago, My Friend Goo said:

Has Monique made any effort to befriend mothers with children of similar ages as hers outside of the cast? I don't follow any of their personal lives aside from any social media tidbits that gets posted on forums.

Karen's children are young adults, Gizelle's girls are teens, I think that Robyn's sons and Wendy's sons are a bit older than Monique's eldest son, Candiace has no kids. That leaves Ashley but I believe that time will prove that tenuous alliance to be wholly transactional.

Ex-friend Charisse's kids are young adults. I don't know if her ex-friend Gigi has any kids, but it does not escape me that Gigi was also a former aspiring rapper and evidently a vindictive gossiper.

My speculation stems from the way that Monique has taken the rejection from this particular group very personally. To the point that she has violently lashed out, carried out an unrelenting smear campaign and is reaching back to not fitting in at school 20+ years ago to explain her feelings... There is a vast difference between not being popular, struggling to make friends, but fitting in where you can and being a social outcast which goes into the territory of social isolation, bullying, etc. I don't know where Monique wants the audience to believe her experience lands.

As co-workers, the cast have to maintain relationships with each other (even just as fake friends), but I doubt that their emotional and social support is drawn primarily from each other with the exception of actual friendships like Robyn & Gizelle. (This is also why I wish Candiace would just accept that Karen was never really her friend.)

Perhaps Monique should be seeking to make connections with women who can relate to her instead of women who are at different places in their lives and have very little in common with her. I wonder if she gets along with the parents of her children's classmates or does she not fit in with them either? Or is it that she does not see how any of those women would benefit her because they are too "regular" for her taste?

I suspect that Monique does not value relationships that don't directly benefit her in a superficial or tangible way and therefore does not pursue friendships that may enrich her life in a more fulfilling manner.

Frankly, if she wasn't stuck on her ambitions of fame, she would be more realistic about what could be best for her happiness. Depending on how she is trying to frame her story about not fitting in at school, it seems that she is starved for attention and has a strong desire to be celebrated for being rich & fabulous to make up for whatever she lacked in her childhood/adolescence.

That didn't fly with this group because none of that matters to them. No one cares about a rags-to-riches story if one doesn't come from rags themselves. Monique was reminded of that when Gizelle asked if she was homeless, when Charisse wouldn't allow herself to be used as a stepping stone for Monique's social climbing and when Candiace wasn't swiftly dispatched for being a nuisance to her.

Amen to all this and I would only add that I suspect Monique's life is littered with ex-friends who were cut off because they were honest with Monique and didn't bow and scrape and put her on a pedestal.  Her friend from her first season (from the failed rap group) clearly put Monique on a pedestal.  

It sounds like her friend Gigi tried to talk to Monique about what she felt was an inappropriate relationship with her trainer and was told to take a hike.  When her husband went to talk to Chris about it, Monique cut her off without another word.  I don't think Monique wants a true friend, I think she wants fans and thats about it.  

[RealReality]

On 12/7/2020 at 9:55 AM, watcherwoman said:

Good for Karen getting her perfume on HSN.  That could be a big deal, but I would hope she has more products to add to her collection.  Gizelle could definitely sell her style of clothes on a shopping network.  Look at Rinna and what she sells.   Rinna's clothes are not cheap either.  You could find the same things at Walmart, but for half the price.  Some of those home shoppers will buy anything.

Michael Darby is just too disgusting to watch on this show.  Ashley doesn't like him either.  She doesn't even flinch when he cheats or acts like an ass.  Michael must have gave Juan some money or did something great for that man, because there just isn't any reason to be so nice to Michael.  I still think Michael is capable of going all Scott Peterson on his kids.  He's clearly nuts and look how easy he comes unhinged.  

 

I dont know where Karen is coming from, because what she wore to the party looked as sparkly as what gizelle was wearing except it was with a matching top.  It looked straight out of the Kathy Ireland holiday party collection.  I thought Gizelle's top was nice, and I wasn't as scandalized by the pants as I thought I would be because I kinda understand "simple top, sparkly bottom"  Karen's matching sequin shiny pantsuit was not where it was at for me.  

[drivethroo]

Quote

I suspect that Monique does not value relationships that don't directly benefit her in a superficial or tangible way and therefore does not pursue friendships that may enrich her life in a more fulfilling manner.

Frankly, if she wasn't stuck on her ambitions of fame, she would be more realistic about what could be best for her happiness. Depending on how she is trying to frame her story about not fitting in at school, it seems that she is starved for attention and has a strong desire to be celebrated for being rich & fabulous to make up for whatever she lacked in her childhood/adolescence.

Think back to her friendship with Charrisse.  While Charrisse was probably thinking "ok, this is a lil' sis, a younger version of me, we're both from Jersey, we both like to rap, we're from around the way, I could show her the ropes around these stuffy people* etc..."

Monique was thinking "Let me see if this old trick can get my kids in Jack & Jill, let me see if she can get me the hookup.  If she can't hook me up her friend _________________ can."

The pastor already broke it down and told it all: Monique thinks people are supposed to be impressed by her because she's Monique! and because they're not she gets angry about it.

50 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I wonder how her therapist feels getting played on national TV?

People see through Monique rather quickly.  That's why she has no friends.  The therapist probably saw straight through her, but a check is a check.

42 minutes ago, RealReality said:

I don't think Monique wants a true friend, I think she wants fans and thats about it.  

You've got to have a friend to be a friend. I don't think Monique likes women in general very much.  She sees all other women as threats.  I think people pick up on that and return that same energy.  The friends she does have are usually women she can look down on (Charrisse was going through hard times, Gigi looks raggedy, Candiace was being supported by mommy & didn't have children, Ashley has a terrible husband etc).  The minute a woman stops being impressed & playing that sidekick role, Monique has no more use for them.

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

The only thing Chris B did wrong was wear a Barnum & Bailey ringmaster costume to a Winter Wonderland party. Ironically, it did turn into a circus. Touché, Chris B. 

[Keywestclubkid]

11 hours ago, JAYJAY1979 said:

So after rewatching Monique/Robyn's umbrella fight in season 3(It was entertaining due to Robyn and Karen's facial expressions) I'm curious how Monique could restrain herself with Robyn (who was kind of daring her to hit her)...but with Candiace..she was ready to fight and keep on fighting.  Both involved attacks on Monique public image (and Monique was drinking/driving imho) so what is the one element that differs?

Yes Monique knows she couldn't "drag" Robyn ... she will only attack someone she feels she could "take" ... IF Monique would just show a teeny tiny just bit of actual remorse and mean it then I would not be so against her in this and say yes she made a mistake she deserves a 2nd chance .. but she has doubled down on what she did she has bragged about it she has reveled in it..She has gone online and tried to create this false narrative of her being the one that was wronged and how it was everyone else's fault ... that just seals it for me.. IF they don't bring her back I wouldn't be sad about it...

[MaggieG]

On 12/7/2020 at 8:23 PM, Neurochick said:

I disagree.  What I meant was that if no one wanted to play with Monique when she was young, maybe the issue was her and not the other kids. 

I was a shy, awkward child with acne when I had to switch schools in the middle of the year because my parents got divorced. I tripped on the first day walking into he classroom and was teased and bullied after that. I was called lame and pathetic to my face. I was locked in the bathroom, got kick me signs put on my back. I played with the first graders on the playground because they were the only ones nice to me. My parent's divorce was very hard for my and I internalized it. I never stood up for myself and barely if ever spoke up in class.  The one time I did stand up for myself, I was laughed at so I never did it again. I can't speak to Monique and her experiences. Maybe she was a bully first. Maybe she stood up for herself and then was teased after. But I can speak to my experience and I'm pretty sure all of those things (and many more that I haven't mentioned that happened to me) weren't really my issue, but more the fact that those kids were bullies and I was an easy target. All I did was be shy and clumsy. I know this is Monique we are talking about and I'm not necessarily defending her, but it rubs me the wrong way to say a child was teased/bullied because it was their issue, not the issue of the bullies. I understand everyone's experience is different though. Monique was completely wrong about attacking Candiace and I think she should be fired.

On a different note, I'm a sucker for a proposal so I thought Juan's proposal was sweet. Why the heck did Michael think Juan wasn't going to do it? It was a surprise, so I don't think Juan would confide in Michael. I also liked Gizelle pushing Wendy back. She was way to extra.

Gizelle's necklace was fug. I hated Ashley's dress but I did like her make-up. Robyn looked great. 

Michael was a complete embarrassment and I can't believe Ashley is having another baby with him.  

[StillHere]

Monique is the Antichrist.

Monique killed Jimmy Hoffa.

Monique kidnapped the Lindbergh baby.

Monique accepted blood diamonds from Charles Taylor.

Monique should be sent to the Hague for War Crimes. 

 

“Monique, MONIQUE, M O N I Q U E !!!”

[Keywestclubkid]

36 minutes ago, StillHere said:

Monique is the Antichrist.

Monique killed Jimmy Hoffa.

Monique kidnapped the Lindbergh baby.

Monique accepted blood diamonds from Charles Taylor.

Monique should be sent to the Hague for War Crimes. 

 

“Monique, MONIQUE, M O N I Q U E !!!”

All Monique had to do is say Sorry and actually have remorse .. she doesn't ... she inst the victim point blank period .... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I'm a mother WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I'm a mother and a wife ....WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA you cant take me from my children even though i str8 up physically assaulted someone WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA its everyone else's fault but mine.. she is like a petulant child at this point stomping her feet and holding her breath  .....

 

Like come on now Monique trying to play victim then bragging about attacking someone just doesn't gel ... no one is blaming anything on her that she didn't do.. she doesn't give a shit that she attacked someone and feels no remorse and that's why no one wants to be around her... she is psychopathic in that

Edited December 9, 2020 by Keywestclubkid

[Neurochick]

22 hours ago, Yogisbooboo64 said:

Karen is this season's MVP!  From her talking heads to getting a spot on HSN (take that, Gizzard!) to launching a wig line, she's been kicking ass and taking names....see, you don't always have to be young to be a badass.

I don't get this Karen love.  She's younger than I am and looks old enough to be my mother.  She'd look much better if she took off that long, white yak off her head.

What I do like about her is that she's no great beauty but she has done a lot with her life.  I think about all that has happened to her while on the show, Ray's financial problems, the death of both of her parents.  

I don't know how La Damme will do; lots of places don't like people to wear perfume because so many people are scent sensitive.  

Still don't get the Karen love, nothing special about her IMO.

[Neurochick]

3 hours ago, MaggieG said:

I was a shy, awkward child with acne when I had to switch schools in the middle of the year because my parents got divorced. I tripped on the first day walking into he classroom and was teased and bullied after that. I was called lame and pathetic to my face. I was locked in the bathroom, got kick me signs put on my back. I played with the first graders on the playground because they were the only ones nice to me. My parent's divorce was very hard for my and I internalized it. I never stood up for myself and barely if ever spoke up in class.  The one time I did stand up for myself, I was laughed at so I never did it again. I can't speak to Monique and her experiences. Maybe she was a bully first. Maybe she stood up for herself and then was teased after. But I can speak to my experience and I'm pretty sure all of those things (and many more that I haven't mentioned that happened to me) weren't really my issue, but more the fact that those kids were bullies and I was an easy target. All I did was be shy and clumsy. I know this is Monique we are talking about and I'm not necessarily defending her, but it rubs me the wrong way to say a child was teased/bullied because it was their issue, not the issue of the bullies. I understand everyone's experience is different though. Monique was completely wrong about attacking Candiace and I think she should be fired.

I gather this comment was for me. 

It sounded like your situation was different from Monique.

I was bullied for years, when I was in school.  It wasn't because I was black or because I "talked white."  It was for fucked up reasons.

But I don't randomly attack other women because of it.  

Edited December 9, 2020 by Neurochick

[drivethroo]

3 hours ago, MaggieG said:

but it rubs me the wrong way to say a child was teased/bullied because it was their issue, not the issue of the bullies. I understand everyone's experience is different though.

Generally speaking, if everywhere you go, nobody likes you...anywhere you go...the issue just might be you.  Doesn't mean the other people don't also have issues but if everywhere you go in life, nobody likes you, the problem is probably you.

Imagine being in your mid-late 30s worrying about why another woman hasn't gone on a honeymoon. But she'd be the first one wanting to fight by the flagpole* about Candiace's reckless mouth if Candiace told her she needs to worry about why her husband made her wait 10 years to get before he married her.  

Here's the group's mentality:

Karen: I'm gonna create a perfume to honor my mother.

Gizelle: I'm gonna create a makeup line because brown girls like my daughters deserve a lot of foundation ranges too.

Robyn: I really have no direction but I'm going to try different things to see where my lane is.  Right now my hat line is doing well.

Wendy: I want to create a platform to discuss politics because that's what I'm passionate about.

Ashley: I wrote and performed this song because I love my husband.

Candiace: I sing this song because I love my husband and here's a remix for you.

Monique: Let me write this song about how I dragged this bitch!

Monique is pushing 40 and using grade school woes to justify why she beat up Candiace. Monique has a teenage mind and that's why when most grown women figure that out about ther, they don't want much to do with her. Karen and Ashley gonna learn.

*The flagpole was a popular spot for girlfights at my high school.  You'd see some tracks laying on the ground, you knew what had happened.

 

Edited December 9, 2020 by drivethroo

[lasu]

Every time I hear the name of Candiace's song, I think they are talking about the ICU.  Like the Intensive Care Unit Remix 2019.

That's it.  That's my sum total for this season.

[Keywestclubkid]

2 hours ago, Neurochick said:

But I don't randomly attack other women because of it.  

 

because you have enough sense to know not to ....

[MaggieG]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I gather this comment was for me. 

It sounded like your situation was different from Monique.

I was bullied for years, when I was in school.  It wasn't because I was black or because I "talked white."  It was for fucked up reasons.

But I don't randomly attack other women because of it.  

Of course. I was not excusing Monique's attack. She can and should know better and deserves to be fired for it. Bullying is not fun, no matter what you get bullied for, especially as a kid. I was just expressing some sympathy for child Monique because I (and many of us) were in her shoes once. The comment that maybe the kids didn't play with her was her problem brought back a lot of memories for me that got me thinking "Wait, was it something I did?" and I had to tell myself that the bullying I received had nothing to do with me. Back then every time something happened, I would think "why, what have I done?". Again, I can't speak to Monique's experience and I don't think she should be using her childhood issues to excuse her attacking Candiace. 

2 hours ago, drivethroo said:

Generally speaking, if everywhere you go, nobody likes you...anywhere you go...the issue just might be you.  Doesn't mean the other people don't also have issues but if everywhere you go in life, nobody likes you, the problem is probably you.

 

I can see that for adults. If all of the sudden you never get invited out or you have issues with every one of your coworkers, then yes the problem is you. I think it's a bit different for kids. Most kids aren't self aware enough to realize something like that.

[RealReality]

40 minutes ago, MaggieG said:

Of course. I was not excusing Monique's attack. She can and should know better and deserves to be fired for it. Bullying is not fun, no matter what you get bullied for, especially as a kid. I was just expressing some sympathy for child Monique because I (and many of us) were in her shoes once. The comment that maybe the kids didn't play with her was her problem brought back a lot of memories for me that got me thinking "Wait, was it something I did?" and I had to tell myself that the bullying I received had nothing to do with me. Back then every time something happened, I would think "why, what have I done?". Again, I can't speak to Monique's experience and I don't think she should be using her childhood issues to excuse her attacking Candiace. 

I can see that for adults. If all of the sudden you never get invited out or you have issues with every one of your coworkers, then yes the problem is you. I think it's a bit different for kids. Most kids aren't self aware enough to realize something like that.

Like you said though, you grew up.  

When I was a kid, I had an unfortunate nickname because it rhymed with my name and it was just low hanging fruit.  

At first I was hurt and there meetings and what not.  

But eventually I really embraced the nickname and made it my own.  Some of my friends still use it to this day.  

I certainly don't think I was bullied per se.  But I think I took something that could have turned really ugly and ended up not only neutralizing it, but embracing it. 

It certainly wasn't the worst thing I've heard in all my years but I think from that incident I just approached things differently.  

[Yogisbooboo64]

6 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I don't get this Karen love.  She's younger than I am and looks old enough to be my mother.  She'd look much better if she took off that long, white yak off her head.

What I do like about her is that she's no great beauty but she has done a lot with her life.  I think about all that has happened to her while on the show, Ray's financial problems, the death of both of her parents.  

I don't know how La Damme will do; lots of places don't like people to wear perfume because so many people are scent sensitive.  

Still don't get the Karen love, nothing special about her IMO.

Here it is, at least for me, in a nutshell....

I've liked Karen since day one.  We share the same name and though she's one year older than me she still has it going on, from her constant hustle to just being classy at all times.  And ya gotta love a lady who still has a healthy sex life at her age, like me!

Now, she does lie sometimes and can be befuddled wig wise, but what I see on the screen is someone who never seems to be jealous of the other HGs and doesn't thrive on drama (looking at your trifling asses, Gizzard and Puppet!)

I agree about the blond hair though, IMO it makes her look older.

 

 

Edited December 10, 2020 by Yogisbooboo64

[RealReality]

This is the 5,743rd excuse we've heard from Monique about why she attacked Candace that has nothing to do with what Candace said to her at the winery.

Yet she still cannot apologize and she won't even stop harassing Candace on social media.  

By the end of filming the case was dropped so he couldn't even apologize after that?

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, Yogisbooboo64 said:

 

Now, she does lie sometimes and can be befuddled wig wise, but what I see on the screen is someone who never seems to be jealous of the other HGs and doesn't thrive on drama

 

 

Karen invited Candace and Monique early to the party.  I believe Candace when she said that Karen is trying to cover her tracks and had called her and asked her to come earlier.  

For Karen to do that shows she absolutely thrives on drama.  That "press conference" was also stupid and dramatic.  And all the lies are stupid and dramatic, because they are so unnecessary, and she becomes over the top defensive and dramatic when she is questioned about any of it.  Like when she told Robyn she was going to go to her event and then decided to go to Monique's event instead, just tell the truth!  You said yes, but you want to do something else.  The truth is far less dramatic then the lies she tells, which are all eye rollingly dumb. 

 

[drivethroo]

6 hours ago, Yogisbooboo64 said:

And ya gotta love a lady who still has a healthy sex life at her age, like me

Karen doesn't have an active sex life...at least not with Ray.

1 hour ago, RealReality said:

Yet she still cannot apologize and she won't even stop harassing Candace on social media.

The social media harassment campaign is what turned me 75% off Monique; the other 25% is the delusions.

 

[Mr. Miner]

14 hours ago, RealReality said:

When I was a kid, I had an unfortunate nickname because it rhymed with my name and it was just low hanging fruit.  

Mulva?

[StillHere]

22 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

All Monique had to do is say Sorry and actually have remorse .. she doesn't ... she inst the victim point blank period .... WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I'm a mother WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA I'm a mother and a wife ....WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA you cant take me from my children even though i str8 up physically assaulted someone WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA its everyone else's fault but mine.. she is like a petulant child at this point stomping her feet and holding her breath  .....

 

Like come on now Monique trying to play victim then bragging about attacking someone just doesn't gel ... no one is blaming anything on her that she didn't do.. she doesn't give a shit that she attacked someone and feels no remorse and that's why no one wants to be around her... she is psychopathic in that

Sis childishly slapped up a girl on a tacky reality show.

Perspective, dude. Perspective.

[Keywestclubkid]

11 minutes ago, StillHere said:

Sis childishly slapped up a girl on a tacky reality show.

Perspective, dude. Perspective.

a grown ass adult woman who knew better then to throw hands threw hands then tried to play the victim that is perspective tho

[drivethroo]

1 hour ago, StillHere said:

Sis childishly slapped up a girl on a tacky reality show.

Perspective, dude. Perspective.

And needed 5 grown men to pull her off the girl and 3 more to keep her from charging at the girl again, all for a silly "slap."

[Neurochick]

20 hours ago, MaggieG said:

Of course. I was not excusing Monique's attack. She can and should know better and deserves to be fired for it. Bullying is not fun, no matter what you get bullied for, especially as a kid. I was just expressing some sympathy for child Monique because I (and many of us) were in her shoes once. The comment that maybe the kids didn't play with her was her problem brought back a lot of memories for me that got me thinking "Wait, was it something I did?" and I had to tell myself that the bullying I received had nothing to do with me. Back then every time something happened, I would think "why, what have I done?". Again, I can't speak to Monique's experience and I don't think she should be using her childhood issues to excuse her attacking Candiace. 

Adult Monique used her childhood experiences to explain herself.  

If Monique was so affected by being bullied, why is she allowing her followers to bully Candiace?

17 hours ago, Yogisbooboo64 said:

I've liked Karen since day one.  We share the same name and though she's one year older than me she still has it going on, from her constant hustle to just being classy at all times.  And ya gotta love a lady who still has a healthy sex life at her age, like me!

Karen and I share the same name too but I had it first. 😛

I think Karen has a healthy sex life, but I'm not sure it's with Ray.  😄

If she had any class she'd write a book about her family.  Too many scents out now and some venues don't allow perfume anymore.  (like some theaters in NYC).  I'm not sure if I want to smell like Karen because I keep thinking she smells like the synthetic thing on her head.

Edited December 10, 2020 by Neurochick

[RealReality]

3 hours ago, Keywestclubkid said:

a grown ass adult woman who knew better then to throw hands threw hands then tried to play the victim that is perspective tho

Also perspective. Monique physically attacked someone because some kids were maybe shitty to her 20+ years ago.  

If thats the reason of the moment then moniques physical attacks aren't about what anyone actually says to her its about what someone said to her like 20+ years ago.  

[drivethroo]

Just now, RealReality said:

Also perspective. Monique physically attacked someone because some kids were maybe shitty to her 20+ years ago.  

If thats the reason of the moment then moniques physical attacks aren't about what anyone actually says to her its about what someone said to her like 20+ years ago. 

Monique's excuses for attacking Candiace change week by week.  

First it was because Candiace threw a glass at her (which did not happen until after Monique was Wack A Mole'ing Candiace upside the head)

Then it was because Candiace's fingers were in her face (but Monique actually put her hands on Candiace* by flicking her hair, not just waving them in the air)

Then it was because Monique's daddy put his fingers in her face when she was a kid

Then it was because she blacked out and didn't know what was going on (yet gave a play by play in the car right after the fight)

Then she tells the pastor Candiace was increasingly belligerent and aggressive** to her (when we saw Candiace walking away/apologizing/refusing to engage with Monique all season)

Then it was because Candiace was plotting to spread rumors that Monique was cheating on Chris with the trainer & the last baby wasn't his (which Candiace didn't, and Monique did not and does not have the same smoke for Gizelle, Gigi and Charrisse who allegedly started/spread the rumor.  At this point, I don't believe Gizelle or Robyn were very involved in this plot.  Sounds like it was just Gigi and Charrisse).

Now it's because black kids and white kids didn't like Monique when she was a child.

Monique wanted to beat Candiace's ass.  Had nothing to do with plots, trainers, rumors, wine glasses, blacking out, fingers in the face, I'm sleep, black kids, white kids or self defense.

They need to bring Charrisse back.  I know a lot of people don't like her but a lot of people don't like Candiace or Monique and both of them will probably be back. Charrisse is in the middle of a whole lot of drama on this show without actually being on the show.

And while I don't like Monique and think she should be fired from the show, I do think the viewers need to see one more season of Monique.  If she's still trifling at the end of next season, give her the boot.

*Monique/Monique fans pointed out that Chris Bassett became aggressive & pushed Michael when Michael came in his face (as a way to justify beating up Candiace).  What they don't/won't point out is Michael Darby put his hands on Chris Bassett first.  Keep your hands to yourself!

**Both Monique and Ashley have spent this season trying to create this narrative of Candiace (and Wendy) being aggressive and belligerent when there was either no aggression or equal aggression on both parts. Wendy caught on to the game real quick; unfortunately Candiace got caught up in it.  Ashley is the most aggressive/belligerent person on the show but she knows how to use that Karen energy when she needs to.

[Rlb8031]

On 12/9/2020 at 2:30 PM, Neurochick said:

I gather this comment was for me. 

It sounded like your situation was different from Monique.

I was bullied for years, when I was in school.  It wasn't because I was black or because I "talked white."  It was for fucked up reasons.

But I don't randomly attack other women because of it.  

The fight between Candiace and Monique keeps being described as an "attack" and "random". It was neither of those things. Monique and Candiace had friction going back to the previous season at Katie's farm. Since that time, with the exception of the reunion, every one of their interactions was fraught with tension. Monique sees this as a fight - an understandable outcome of rising tensions. Candiace does not. Again, I think that how you look at this is based upon a whole set of societal norms that are too deep to get into on this site. But I note, that if this were Christmas in Peru, Monique dragging Candiace around by her hair would have been considered a perfectly acceptable way to resolve their issues and move forward with a clean start into the New Year.

[StillHere]

6 hours ago, drivethroo said:

And needed 5 grown men to pull her off the girl and 3 more to keep her from charging at the girl again, all for a silly "slap."

Are you saying she didn't kill Jimmy Hoffa?

[RealReality]

8 minutes ago, StillHere said:

Are you saying she didn't kill Jimmy Hoffa?

Jimmy Hoffa disappeared before monique was born so she isn't a suspect at this time.  

But she has a propensity for violence and there is so much we don't know about time travel that she cannot be fully excluded.    

 

[RealReality]

31 minutes ago, Rlb8031 said:

The fight between Candiace and Monique keeps being described as an "attack" and "random". It was neither of those things. Monique and Candiace had friction going back to the previous season at Katie's farm. Since that time, with the exception of the reunion, every one of their interactions was fraught with tension. Monique sees this as a fight - an understandable outcome of rising tensions. Candiace does not. Again, I think that how you look at this is based upon a whole set of societal norms that are too deep to get into on this site. But I note, that if this were Christmas in Peru, Monique dragging Candiace around by her hair would have been considered a perfectly acceptable way to resolve their issues and move forward with a clean start into the New Year.

Monique hugged her at the reunion and they "moved forward"

Monique left friendly voice mails for candace.  Monique invited candace onto her podcast when she wasn't duty bound to do so.  

If you are having struggle and friction with a person why are you calling them to leave friendly messages and why are you asking them to be around you?  Unless of course its a day that ends in the letter "y" and monique is trying a new excuse on for size and fit.  

It was candace who decided to nix the podcast appearance and monique had the nerve to be mad about it.  Why would you be mad if someone you don't like skips your event?  

Everytime candace and monique met up prior to the winery candace either apologized or walked away so what are these rising tensions?  They only exist in monqiues mind.  How are you gonna a have rising tension with someone who has apologized to you, walked away from you and made repeated efforts not to be around you unless necessary?  

Thats like the insane guy on the BART declaring that we have a relationship "fraught with tension" as I walk away to get on another car.  

[nb360]

On 12/7/2020 at 11:46 AM, charliesan said:

While I'm 100% on Candiace's side, something tells me Monique will be back next season.

Maybe because Monique has been on WWHL so much?

When Porsha hit Kenya, Porsha had much less screen time compared to what Monique is getting.

[RealReality]

17 minutes ago, nb360 said:

Maybe because Monique has been on WWHL so much?

When Porsha hit Kenya, Porsha had much less screen time compared to what Monique is getting.

True.  But I dont think that porsha was as defensive and stubborn as monique.  Like others have said she is nearly twirling a mustache and threatening  to turn those Dalmations into a coat at this point. 

Its rare. 

 

Edited December 11, 2020 by RealReality

[SuburbanHangSuite]

On 12/9/2020 at 4:37 PM, lasu said:

Every time I hear the name of Candiace's song, I think they are talking about the ICU.  Like the Intensive Care Unit Remix 2019.

That's it.  That's my sum total for this season.

Well, every time I hear the "I See You," in my mind, I feel like the next line should be, "We see each other!"  And then I realize that I have OD'd on Housewives and I need some kind of rehab.

 

[JaJa Elle]

I can see your point of view in regards to a disconnect between Monique and the other ladies. I don't really think her feeling of rejection has to do with having friends with kids in similar age groups. Helps. But I don't think that's it. The separation comes from all the women aside from Karen and Ashley having guns a'blazin' aimed toward Monique out of jealousy or insecurity. Think about it. GIZELLE from jump harbored jealousy from the "I have 4 homes" response; while she was whitewashing that shack. Then comes the whole thing with Sherman, the park after dark revelation, and bringing Kyndall around (which I believe was spearheaded by Charrise). ROBYN felt Monique was being classist when she explained she and Gizelle's tried and true relationship being due to Robyn being inferior to Gizelle. But that was Robyn's insecurity. Monique simply made an observation of Gizelle not befriending anyone unless they are subservient to her. Which is true. Robyn does follow Gizelle like a puppy. CANDIACE started off ok with Monique but wasn't mature enough to respect that Monique and Ashley had moved on from their conflict and  Candiace still wanted a war buddy with no premise. Also, I believe Candiace wasn't true to anyone because she's hell bent on securing her role on the show. Her goal is fame and money. Friendships and feelings are collateral damage. So, EVERYONE wanted Monique X'd out for one reason or another. Monique is just one of those people who can't be anything but themselves and won't compromise their true self for tv entertainment. People like her usually can't do reality tv long term bc they are too authentically genuine and reality tv is straight BS.

[charliesan]

On 12/10/2020 at 10:55 PM, nb360 said:

Maybe because Monique has been on WWHL so much?

Good point. I think Monique is not going anywhere because this was the hottest topic of the entire season so I would assume Andy would want this to move onto the next. Correct me if I'm wrong but Monique still has a lot of support online (a lot less than prior to the season, but still) so it wouldn't be good for business to let Monique go. Plus, I saw the footage of Michael grabbing another camera man (in the 1st season) so lawsuit or not we know he's a perv and I think he has more of a chance of returning (via Ashley) than Candiace. If we add Teresa from Jersey, Andy has no issue with criminals being on his shows. 

Having said that, I do believe production will NEVER forgive nor forget that Monique had the Darby's back with the lawsuit against the camera man and that's why they did everything in their power to make her look unhinged and crazy. I don't see a redemption in her future. 

I think Candiace could be in jeopardy because of her past homophobic Twitter comments, and I think that's where Andy draws the line. But if she does come back, I'm sure she'll play the game more strategically ala Gizelle and Karen. 

Aside from the fight, the party looked like a lot of fun and even though Robyn is not my favorite I do hope she's happy. 

However, I'm calling it right now: If Juan does go to a bachelor party where Michael Darby is involved, I'm sure something shady is going to happen. 

 

 

[qtpye]

2 minutes ago, charliesan said:

Good point. I think Monique is not going anywhere because this was the hottest topic of the entire season so I would assume Andy would want this to move onto the next. Correct me if I'm wrong but Monique still has a lot of support online (a lot less than prior to the season, but still) so it wouldn't be good for business to let Monique go. Plus, I saw the footage of Michael grabbing another camera man (in the 1st season) so lawsuit or not we know he's a perv and I think he has more of a chance of returning (via Ashley) than Candiace. If we add Teresa from Jersey, Andy has no issue with criminals being on his shows. 

Having said that, I do believe production will NEVER forgive nor forget that Monique had the Darby's back with the lawsuit against the camera man and that's why they did everything in their power to make her look unhinged and crazy. I don't see a redemption in her future. 

I think Candiace could be in jeopardy because of her past homophobic Twitter comments, and I think that's where Andy draws the line. But if she does come back, I'm sure she'll play the game more strategically ala Gizelle and Karen. 

Aside from the fight, the party looked like a lot of fun and even though Robyn is not my favorite I do hope she's happy. 

However, I'm calling it right now: If Juan does go to a bachelor party where Michael Darby is involved, I'm sure something shady is going to happen. 

 

 

The fight has made me realize that even though Monique might have issues making (and keeping) friends in real life...she is by far the most popular and liked housewife on Potomac.

I actually think if Monique came back next season, her popularity might actually go down. I think this will be because they might start giving her an unflattering crazy lady edit.

My advice to Monique is to run away from this mess. She really has a blessed life and does not need this show like the other ladies in the cast.

[retired watcher]

I loved Monique when she first came on. She was a breath of fresh air among these stuffy women. I never liked Candice. I thought she was an immature, spoiled brat. I also think Candice was trying for a long time to get Monique riled up enough to hit her. BUT I think Monique should be fired, not for the original attack but for her reaction afterwards trying to chase Candice down. I personally would like to see Candice go because she will be hell to watch if she stays and Monique goes. 

[Neurochick]

10 hours ago, qtpye said:

The fight has made me realize that even though Monique might have issues making (and keeping) friends in real life...she is by far the most popular and liked housewife on Potomac.

That is something I just can't figure out, except for the reasons I once mentioned:  She's a brown skinned woman, married to a black man with three adorable kids. 

I think she's shady and nasty.  If she had SOOOO much, she wouldn't have been fighting Candiace like some thirteen year old who had nothing going on in their life.

[qtpye]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

That is something I just can't figure out, except for the reasons I once mentioned:  She's a brown skinned woman, married to a black man with three adorable kids. 

I think she's shady and nasty.  If she had SOOOO much, she wouldn't have been fighting Candiace like some thirteen year old who had nothing going on in their life.

The fight with Candiass shows that she is not the brightest bulb.  As @retired watcher stated, she was one of the few housewives that was really well liked, has a great marriage,  beautiful family, and can boast of having real wealth.  Candiass is so not worth losing the goodwill she has with viewers.

I still can not figure out why this is the hill she chose to die on. I mean I am still unclear about why she attacked Candiass beyond it had to do with Charisse and rumors about acting inappropriately with her trainer at a club. I mean it’s not even all that serious...because most people really did not believe it or care. 

[Sheenieb]

Whew, I thought Michael was going to snatch the mic from Candiace and sing "Congratulations" by Vesta to Juan. 

I do think Juan legitimately likes Michael and enjoys his company. He doesn't seem to look at Michael as if he's a trainwreck. I don't know if Juan is that good of an actor.

Still hate that ring, but Robyn looked stunning at the party. 

The only reason why I wouldn't mind seeing Wendy again next season is because of Eddie. She has the best husband. 

Ashley going off on Michael embarrassing her was painful. It was like watching the expression "when you marry for money, you earn every penny" in real time. 

If you're going to lie, Karen, at least lie well. The whoppers she comes up with are worse than the truth. 

[drivethroo]

1 hour ago, retired watcher said:

I also think Candice was trying for a long time to get Monique riled up enough to hit her.

By walking away and constantly apologizing? Because that's all she's done with regards to Monique this season.

On Season 4, Monique kept making passive aggressive digs at Candiace because of Candiace's tensions with Ashley.  The "Drag Me" situation was because Karen & Candiace were having a private conversation away from the group, Monique wobbled over and butted into their conversation with aggression towards Candiace, Candiace clapped back and Monique responded with she would drag Candiace pregnant and all.

Candiace can't win, because if she says something to somebody, her mouth is reckless and she needs her ass beat, but if she tries to avoid conflict with Monique (or Ashley) she's really egging Monique on to beat her ass.

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

The fight has made me realize that even though Monique might have issues making (and keeping) friends in real life...she is by far the most popular and liked housewife on Potomac.

Because some viewers are vicariously living through Monique.  THEY wish they could smack a bitch up for talking reckless and even though they claim "talk shit, get hit" and how they would do this/that/the other to a bitch etc. the reality is the majority of them ain't gonna do shit about somebody talking smack to them except cry about it online.  

Many viewers were turned off from Monique because of the constant lying and smear campaign.

The show has to either keep both Candiace AND Monique for next season or get rid of both of them. 

What will probably save Candiace is she was the clear victim of an attack and 2/3 of the cast would rather film with her than Monique. It would not be a good look for BRAVO to fire the victim of an attack but continue to employ the attacker.

However, what will probably save Monique is she is delusional (good tv) and BRAVO didn't fire Nene, Porsha, the NJ cast, or Mariah/Toya/Quad from Married 2 Med when they got into fights.  That wouldn't be a good look to fire Monique for fighting but they didn't fire all these other people.

47 minutes ago, qtpye said:

I still can not figure out why this is the hill she chose to die on. I mean I am still unclear about why she attacked Candiass beyond it had to do with Charisse and rumors about acting inappropriately with her trainer at a club. I mean it’s not even all that serious...because most people really did not believe it or care. 

She attacked Candiace because she doesn't like her and wanted to beat her ass.  It's not anything more complicated than that.  If she had a specific reason for attacking Candiace she would've stated it and stuck to it.  Instead we've heard numerous reasons on why she had to do it, which tells me she doesn't have any reason at all except she just wanted to beat her ass.

[qtpye]

2 hours ago, drivethroo said:

By walking away and constantly apologizing? Because that's all she's done with regards to Monique this season.

On Season 4, Monique kept making passive aggressive digs at Candiace because of Candiace's tensions with Ashley.  The "Drag Me" situation was because Karen & Candiace were having a private conversation away from the group, Monique wobbled over and butted into their conversation with aggression towards Candiace, Candiace clapped back and Monique responded with she would drag Candiace pregnant and all.

Candiace can't win, because if she says something to somebody, her mouth is reckless and she needs her ass beat, but if she tries to avoid conflict with Monique (or Ashley) she's really egging Monique on to beat her ass.

Because some viewers are vicariously living through Monique.  THEY wish they could smack a bitch up for talking reckless and even though they claim "talk shit, get hit" and how they would do this/that/the other to a bitch etc. the reality is the majority of them ain't gonna do shit about somebody talking smack to them except cry about it online.  

Many viewers were turned off from Monique because of the constant lying and smear campaign.

The show has to either keep both Candiace AND Monique for next season or get rid of both of them. 

What will probably save Candiace is she was the clear victim of an attack and 2/3 of the cast would rather film with her than Monique. It would not be a good look for BRAVO to fire the victim of an attack but continue to employ the attacker.

However, what will probably save Monique is she is delusional (good tv) and BRAVO didn't fire Nene, Porsha, the NJ cast, or Mariah/Toya/Quad from Married 2 Med when they got into fights.  That wouldn't be a good look to fire Monique for fighting but they didn't fire all these other people.

She attacked Candiace because she doesn't like her and wanted to beat her ass.  It's not anything more complicated than that.  If she had a specific reason for attacking Candiace she would've stated it and stuck to it.  Instead we've heard numerous reasons on why she had to do it, which tells me she doesn't have any reason at all except she just wanted to beat her ass.

Makes me wish she would have thrown hands with Robyn. Robyn would have stomped her ass.

No one should ever get violent but beating up a woman the size of an average 5th grader, does not make you a badass.

[RealReality]

5 hours ago, Neurochick said:

That is something I just can't figure out, except for the reasons I once mentioned:  She's a brown skinned woman, married to a black man with three adorable kids. 

I think she's shady and nasty.  If she had SOOOO much, she wouldn't have been fighting Candiace like some thirteen year old who had nothing going on in their life.

I think some people feel like they are living vicariously thought her.  She is able to beat someone up that annoys her and they cannot do the same in real life.  

They also felt like they were rooting for an underdog, and if movies have taught me anything its that people like to root for an underdog.

What they fail to realize is that Monique is none of these things.  And thats a calculated move on Monique's part through her social media harassment campaign.  So people are distracted by "well Candace asked for it!" and fail to see the pretty clear signs, to me, that Monique is just as much a bully as she claims everyone else in her life is.

The picture I see is that Monique chose the smallest, weakest and least liked cast member to attack.  She ran away from popular, tall, athletic Robyn when Robyn told Monique to "go ahead" and choke her out, and then ran after her laughing. 

She has been antagonizing Candace the entire season, while secretly pretending to be her friend.  Candace has walked away, apologized and did her best to avoid being in a room with Monique if it wasn't required. 

Monique has tried to get the other girls to ice Candace out.  When Candace walked away from her at the lakehouse, she tried to get Wendy and Robyn on her side and they both were like "uh, no"

There was nothing that Candace said at the winery that was any worse than what any of these people have said to each other.  "Drag me" was no worse than what Robyn said, which was basically "choke me out, go ahead"

This isn't a matter of Monique getting back at someone who has been mean to her, this is Monique bullying the smallest, weakest and least liked person on the cast.  Part of the reason that she gets support is because people don't like Candace, and they wish they could hit someone who was annoying too.  And they think that Monique is an underdog because G and R and now Dr. Wendy don't like her.  But, Monique isn't an underdog at all.  Monique did something wrong, she is being held accountable by everyone, that doesn't make her an underdog, it makes everyone else right for holding her accountable and not buying into her 7,405 excuses for why she did what she did and how its not her fault.  

At least thats my take.  

[RealReality]

3 hours ago, qtpye said:

The fight with Candiass shows that she is not the brightest bulb.  As @retired watcher stated, she was one of the few housewives that was really well liked, has a great marriage,  beautiful family, and can boast of having real wealth.  Candiass is so not worth losing the goodwill she has with viewers.

I still can not figure out why this is the hill she chose to die on. I mean I am still unclear about why she attacked Candiass beyond it had to do with Charisse and rumors about acting inappropriately with her trainer at a club. I mean it’s not even all that serious...because most people really did not believe it or care. 

If you dont know why Monique chose to attack Candace, just wait a week as she brews up excuse number 7,407.  Her reason excuse changes by the week.  

At the end of the day, I think Monique's motivation was frustration that her plan wasn't working out.  I think she wanted to ice Candace out to get in with the "popular girls" and be the HBIC.  I think when Monique told all the other girls that they should ice Candace out, Candace was still on the outs with Gizelle over those comments she made about her house being a tear down.  Monique probably thought the plan could work, and that it would bring her and Gizelle (and Robyn) closer together.  

She couldn't foresee that Candace would make amends with Gizelle and that they would be fine and not only would no one want to ice out Candace, but she would get another friend on the show as a castmember.  

If Monique is a control freak, then her plans to get rid of Candace and become an honorary member of the GEB probably frustrated her a lot.  The fact that she couldn't get Candace to engage with her this season probably frustrated her as well, because unless Candace really said something shitty, no one was going to be on Monique's side with the plan to ice Candace out.  

[Neurochick]

4 hours ago, qtpye said:

The fight with Candiass shows that she is not the brightest bulb.  As @retired watcher stated, she was one of the few housewives that was really well liked, has a great marriage,  beautiful family, and can boast of having real wealth.  Candiass is so not worth losing the goodwill she has with viewers.

See, I don't really think Monique has what we think she has.  What we see is all surface.  I think Monique is like, "Hi, I'm Monique, I have a loving husband, three beautiful kids, five homes and my life is PERFECT...it's so perfect that I can do ten things at ONCE."  Monique needs to take off the Superwoman cape.  If someone is truly happy, they don't fight random women in the street.  Everybody I've ever seen fighting in the street usually didn't have much.

I think Monique's relationship is a quid pro quo, like the marriages of most of the women on the show; though I don't know what Candiace sees in Chris. 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Neurochick

[qtpye]

31 minutes ago, RealReality said:

If you dont know why Monique chose to attack Candace, just wait a week as she brews up excuse number 7,407.  Her reason excuse changes by the week.  

At the end of the day, I think Monique's motivation was frustration that her plan wasn't working out.  I think she wanted to ice Candace out to get in with the "popular girls" and be the HBIC.  I think when Monique told all the other girls that they should ice Candace out, Candace was still on the outs with Gizelle over those comments she made about her house being a tear down.  Monique probably thought the plan could work, and that it would bring her and Gizelle (and Robyn) closer together.  

She couldn't foresee that Candace would make amends with Gizelle and that they would be fine and not only would no one want to ice out Candace, but she would get another friend on the show as a castmember.  

If Monique is a control freak, then her plans to get rid of Candace and become an honorary member of the GEB probably frustrated her a lot.  The fact that she couldn't get Candace to engage with her this season probably frustrated her as well, because unless Candace really said something shitty, no one was going to be on Monique's side with the plan to ice Candace out.  

I think you hit the nail on the head. Monique felt like the other women accepted Candiass and they never accepted her. Monique wants to sit with the popular girls but Candiass is the one who knows how to roll with them. She came from the same world as Robyn, Gizelle, and to some extent Karen (whose family seems to be well off and respected farmers in their small community).

I also do not believe Monique's excuse of being from the "hood". There are plenty of people from the hood who do not act a fool in public.

5 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

See, I don't really think Monique has what we think she has.  If someone is truly happy, they don't fight random women in the street.  Everybody I've ever seen fighting in the street usually didn't have much.

I think Monique's relationship is a quid pro quo, like the marriages of most of the women on the show; though I don't know what Candiace sees in Chris. 

I have learned that you can have everything on the outside...beauty, wealth, love, and family and it does not matter if you do not have any self esteem.

This fight has made me realize that Monique is an amazingly insecure person.

[RealReality]

@qtpye - I think the point you made about people from the "hood" is brilliant is often overlooked.  There are plenty of people from economically depressed areas who handle themselves with more restraint and I think its sort of insulting for Monique to blame "the hood" for her violence because it paints everyone from that area with the same brush, which is unfair and perpetuates unfair stereotypes.  

[albarino]

2 hours ago, RealReality said:

I think some people feel like they are living vicariously thought her.  She is able to beat someone up that annoys her and they cannot do the same in real life.  

They also felt like they were rooting for an underdog, and if movies have taught me anything its that people like to root for an underdog.

And I feel like everybody is overthinking all of this.  We are watching reality TV fame Hos.  No more and no less.  I don't think I need to be psychoanalyzed about it; you've made your point several times.  I'm not with you.

[StillHere]

44 minutes ago, albarino said:

And I feel like everybody is overthinking all of this.  We are watching reality TV fame Hos.  No more and no less.  I don't think I need to be psychoanalyzed about it; you've made your point several times.  I'm not with you.

Not everybody.

[drivethroo]

3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I think Monique's relationship is a quid pro quo, like the marriages of most of the women on the show; though I don't know what Candiace sees in Chris. 

Chris stands up to (and for) Candiace.

 

2 hours ago, qtpye said:

I think you hit the nail on the head. Monique felt like the other women accepted Candiass and they never accepted her. Monique wants to sit with the popular girls but Candiass is the one who knows how to roll with them. She came from the same world as Robyn, Gizelle, and to some extent Karen (whose family seems to be well off and respected farmers in their small community).

I also do not believe Monique's excuse of being from the "hood". There are plenty of people from the hood who do not act a fool in public.

Monique puts on this "hood" persona, then gets upset when people like Gizelle and Candiace look down on her for being "hood."