S15.E20: Carry On (Series Finale)

[MAK]

7 hours ago, tessathereaper said:

And nothing about opening scenes of the finale was them doing a 180, aside from Dean having a dog, it was just them with the pressure off. 

I'm sorry, I guess I'm not writing it properly. 

To be clear, I don't think the opening sequence was out of character at all. The point that I was getting at was that to reach the opening sequence, in *a couple days* after Chuck's defeat would be OOC. 

Also, I don't think Dean having a dog is OOC. If you look at Dean's previous interactions with dogs, he's ok with them, even approaches them without prompting. He was conditioned from childhood not to want anything, and as he grew older understood a dog could not live their lifestyle.

[ahrtee]

22 minutes ago, MAK said:

I'm sorry, I guess I'm not writing it properly. 

To be clear, I don't think the opening sequence was out of character at all. The point that I was getting at was that to reach the opening sequence, in *a couple days* after Chuck's defeat would be OOC. 

Also, I don't think Dean having a dog is OOC. If you look at Dean's previous interactions with dogs, he's ok with them, even approaches them without prompting. He was conditioned from childhood not to want anything, and as he grew older understood a dog could not live their lifestyle.

I've already said enough about the time frame between 15.19 and 15.20, so all I can say here is it's not *necessarily* OOC.  IMO, of course.

But Dean has *never* been shown as being fond of dogs (at least, not until Dog Dean Afternoon).  Before that, there were his continuous jokes (and fear) of Yorkies, and his absolute rule to Sam in 8.1 of "No dogs in the car!"  Sam had a history of liking/wanting to own dogs, starting with Bones in Flagstaff, but Dean, for whatever reason, never seemed interested.  

Considering his history with hellhounds, it would be completely natural for him to be skittish around big dogs, at least.  I think he bonded with Miracle solely because it was--actually--a miracle to find him at that time, when he needed a win.  

Edited December 8, 2020 by ahrtee

[DeeDee79]

10 hours ago, S Cook Productions said:

I personally don't think so. I think you have to be under 27 to join the military for the first time.

Not necessarily. When I joined the Army at 22 the oldest one in my platoon was a guy in his 30’s. That was in 2001 so things may have changed but it was his first time serving.

[MAK]

3 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I've already said enough about the time frame between 15.19 and 15.20, so all I can say here is it's not *necessarily* OOC.  IMO, of course.

But Dean has *never* been shown as being fond of dogs (at least, not until Dog Dean Afternoon).  Before that, there were his continuous jokes (and fear) of Yorkies, and his absolute rule to Sam in 8.1 of "No dogs in the car!"  Sam had a history of liking/wanting to own dogs, starting with Bones in Flagstaff, but Dean, for whatever reason, never seemed interested.  

Considering his history with hellhounds, it would be completely natural for him to be skittish around big dogs, at least.  I think he bonded with Miracle solely because it was--actually--a miracle to find him at that time, when he needed a win.  

Dean wasn't skittish approaching the German Shephard in "Dog Dean Afternoon," and he was afraid of Yorkies in "Yellow Fever" because the ghost sickness messed him up. 

His first (I think) interaction with a dog was in "Mystery Spot" when he approached the barking dog asking  "...you need a friend..."

His rule about dogs in the car seems to come from their childhood. Dean probably got chewed out by John for hiding a dog himself, or hiding a dog Sam wanted. In which case, the rule would be more to sheild Sam from getting hurt by leaving behind pets they couldn't take on the road with them.

[Airmid]

@DeeDee79 Different branches have their own requirements but Dean could definitely shave off a few years from his age and join up with the Army or at least the guard with no one the wiser. The biggest problem for him isn't his age, it's the fact that he has an extensive criminal record and has been wanted at various times by some rather imposing law enforcement agencies. The man may be skilled with false documentation but anything that requires a security clearance at any level would be an absolute nightmare for him. Plus, it wouldn't just be his job while serving that could pose a problem, it could be where he serves - i.e. he could be doing something considered rather menial but then get sent to a base that has a high level of security even though his actual job doesn't require him to have that. 

I mean, if he really wanted to go into something like that [like if he was searching for a mission to help people/serve], his better bet would be local law enforcement, especially in smaller areas. Even now, crazy or bad records slip through the cracks and he happens to know two kick-ass sheriff's that could lend him a hand getting his feet into the whole thing and not risk so much.

Actually, thinking about it, Dean going to work through someone like Donna would have been preferable. Both of them could have gotten out of hunting with Sam living the life he at least thought he always wanted and Dean being able to help people while getting to have friends and a life of his own. The whole thing could have ended there and been a good setup in the future for any continuation. 

Gah, I'm making myself sad now.

[ahrtee]

7 hours ago, MAK said:

Dean wasn't skittish approaching the German Shephard in "Dog Dean Afternoon," and he was afraid of Yorkies in "Yellow Fever" because the ghost sickness messed him up. 

His first (I think) interaction with a dog was in "Mystery Spot" when he approached the barking dog asking  "...you need a friend..."

His rule about dogs in the car seems to come from their childhood. Dean probably got chewed out by John for hiding a dog himself, or hiding a dog Sam wanted. In which case, the rule would be more to sheild Sam from getting hurt by leaving behind pets they couldn't take on the road with them.

The German Shepherd was in a cage (and was part of a case, not just a friendly visit).  And the dog in Mystery Spot promptly killed him.  He also had jokes about yorkies in seasons 1 and 6 (didn't seem to like them much.)  That's about 5 or 6 scenes (or discussions) of dogs in 327 episodes.  

And considering how angry Dean got at the dog smell in Baby, my thought was that *that* was why no dogs in the car. ☺️

But the point is, *there's no proof.*  So it all falls under my definition of canon vs. interpretation as discussed in great detail above.  

Edited December 8, 2020 by ahrtee

[Pondlass1]

Sam hit a dog and forgot all about his brother in purgatory (oh, and Kevin).  So he must REALLY like dogs.

Both brothers would be dog lovers IMO - dogs offer unconditional love and  these damaged guys need that in heaps. But dogs would get in the way of hunting wouldn't they?

I don't put much stock in those papers in Dean's room but maybe someone will ask at a convention. Was Dean thinking of retiring from hunting? Personally I cannot visualize Dean in any army like situation.  He's not good with taking orders and in the military that's what you do - no questions asked.  Dean could be...... a spy.  He's got all the skills and qualities necessary especially if he was allowed to be a free agent... like 007.  He'd save the damn country but I don't think you apply to be a spy with a written application.

 

[gonzosgirrl]

I don't think Dean's grief process is a factor in determining the time lapse. Whether or not there were outside influences (cases, responsibility, etc), Dean has never been overtly 'sad' after a death. Even John and Mary got a stoic front, with his natural resiliency and his need to be the big brother helping him keep it together for other people. "We" saw him trash the Impala over John, and sit in the woods and cry for Mary, but nobody else did.

Consider Sam, Interrupted*. Nobody will convince me he didn't feel at least as badly about Ellen and Jo, and he actually had talks with a therapist where he admitted to some pretty heavy stuff (apart from the 'crazy' they were using as cover), so it would have been a perfect opportunity to 'grieve' for his friends. Instead there was this:

In response to Sam feeling guilty and angry:

Exactly. And that's exactly what you're gonna do. You're gonna take all that crap and you're gonna bury it. You're gonna forget about it, because that's how we keep going! That's how we don't end up like Martin! Are you with me?

And this exchange, which is entirely about grief and Sam thinking he wasn't dealing properly:

SAM: Okay. Look...um...last few weeks, you've kind of been worrying me.

DEAN: (rolls his eyes) Oh, come on, Sam. Stop. Look, just because we're in the loony bin doesn't give you the right to head-shrink me.

SAM: Dean--

DEAN: Ellen and Jo dying--Yeah, it was a friggin' tragedy, okay? But I'm not gonna wallow in it.

SAM: Dean, you always do this. You can't just keep this crap in.

DEAN: (chuckles) Watch me.

So Dean's words to Sam in this episode were, IMO, 100% in character, not indicative of a great deal of time passing, and no reflection on the quality or depth of his grief over Castiel.

*Sam specifically mentions 'last few weeks' since Ellen and Jo (Abandon All Hope), which is, IMO, the maximum amount of time we're talking about for this episode.

Edited December 8, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[DeeDee79]

4 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I don't think Dean's grief process is a factor in determining the time lapse. Whether or not there were outside influences (cases, responsibility, etc), Dean has never been overtly 'sad' after a death. Even John and Mary got a stoic front, with his natural resiliency and his need to be the big brother helping him keep it together for other people. "We" saw him trash the Impala over John, and sit in the woods and cry for Mary, but nobody else did.

Consider Sam, Interrupted*. Nobody will convince me he didn't feel at least as badly about Ellen and Jo, and he actually had talks with a therapist where he admitted to some pretty heavy stuff (apart from the 'crazy' they were using as cover), so it would have been a perfect opportunity to 'grieve' for his friends. Instead there was this:

In response to Sam feeling guilty and angry:

Exactly. And that's exactly what you're gonna do. You're gonna take all that crap and you're gonna bury it. You're gonna forget about it, because that's how we keep going! That's how we don't end up like Martin! Are you with me?

And this exchange, which is entirely about grief and Sam thinking he wasn't dealing properly:

SAM: Okay. Look...um...last few weeks, you've kind of been worrying me.

DEAN: (rolls his eyes) Oh, come on, Sam. Stop. Look, just because we're in the loony bin doesn't give you the right to head-shrink me.

SAM: Dean--

DEAN: Ellen and Jo dying--Yeah, it was a friggin' tragedy, okay? But I'm not gonna wallow in it.

SAM: Dean, you always do this. You can't just keep this crap in.

DEAN: (chuckles) Watch me.

So Dean's words to Sam in this episode were, IMO, 100% in character, not indicative of a great deal of time passing, and no reflection on the quality or depth of his grief over Castiel.

*Sam specifically mentions 'last few weeks' since Ellen and Jo (Abandon All Hope), which is, IMO, the maximum amount of time we're talking about for this episode.

All excellent points. I think that most that we've seen Dean grieve ( that I can recall ) was during that time period when they showed us the aftermath of Bobby dying. They looked devastated in the scenes at the beginning of Adventures in Babysitting.

[Bobcatkitten]

Dean definitely grieved in Lost and Found - but he had lost Castiel, Mary, Crowley and Kelly all at the same time. 

[tessathereaper]

20 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I've already said enough about the time frame between 15.19 and 15.20, so all I can say here is it's not *necessarily* OOC.  IMO, of course.

But Dean has *never* been shown as being fond of dogs (at least, not until Dog Dean Afternoon).  Before that, there were his continuous jokes (and fear) of Yorkies, and his absolute rule to Sam in 8.1 of "No dogs in the car!"  Sam had a history of liking/wanting to own dogs, starting with Bones in Flagstaff, but Dean, for whatever reason, never seemed interested.  

Considering his history with hellhounds, it would be completely natural for him to be skittish around big dogs, at least.  I think he bonded with Miracle solely because it was--actually--a miracle to find him at that time, when he needed a win.  

The only time he mentioned Yorkies that I recall, besides the exagerrated Yellow Fever incident because he was cursed, was in Season 1, next to the last episode I think, when he actually made up having a Yorkie who peed when it was nervous as an excuse to get near the burning house or whatever it was.  Which was kind of cute as opposed to seeming to dislike dogs in general.

Then in Season 3 one of his deaths in Mystery Spot was because he saw a Golden Retriever standing on the sidewalk and just HAD to go over and pet it and wanting to be friends with it(cue scene switch and Dean apparently died by Golden Retriever in that death). But Dean doesn't remember that, doesn't change the fact that his response to the dog was a very positive one, which is how he was in the position for death by Golden anyway.

So really that I know of aside from the Yellow Fever incident(which we saw Dean screaming his head off at a cat, I don't think think the Yorkie was supposed to be showing some secret fear of dogs, though it was after Hell and could have been a nod to having been killed by Hellhounds, but exaggerated because it was a tiny little yorkie, but I do think Dean would be able to power through that generally and NOT blame "all dogs" for what Hellhounds did, and Dean saying "no dogs in the car" in 8.1, I can't see any real evidence that Dean didn't like dogs, in fact given that he was really happy couldn't wait to pet that Golden Retriever in Mystery Spot I'd say the opposite.  It's probably more like what MAK said, a dog wouldn't fit their lifestyle and it would be really hard if something to have to give it up, etc.

Plus as you mention, it could have been Miracle in particular, due to the circumstances, you don't necessarily have to be a dog-lover to just really love and bond with a particular dog.

[ahrtee]

1 hour ago, tessathereaper said:

The only time he mentioned Yorkies that I recall, besides the exagerrated Yellow Fever incident because he was cursed, was in Season 1, next to the last episode I think, when he actually made up having a Yorkie who peed when it was nervous as an excuse to get near the burning house or whatever it was.  Which was kind of cute as opposed to seeming to dislike dogs in general.

Then in Season 3 one of his deaths in Mystery Spot was because he saw a Golden Retriever standing on the sidewalk and just HAD to go over and pet it and wanting to be friends with it(cue scene switch and Dean apparently died by Golden Retriever in that death). But Dean doesn't remember that, doesn't change the fact that his response to the dog was a very positive one, which is how he was in the position for death by Golden anyway.

So really that I know of aside from the Yellow Fever incident(which we saw Dean screaming his head off at a cat, I don't think think the Yorkie was supposed to be showing some secret fear of dogs, though it was after Hell and could have been a nod to having been killed by Hellhounds, but exaggerated because it was a tiny little yorkie, but I do think Dean would be able to power through that generally and NOT blame "all dogs" for what Hellhounds did, and Dean saying "no dogs in the car" in 8.1, I can't see any real evidence that Dean didn't like dogs, in fact given that he was really happy couldn't wait to pet that Golden Retriever in Mystery Spot I'd say the opposite.  It's probably more like what MAK said, a dog wouldn't fit their lifestyle and it would be really hard if something to have to give it up, etc.

Plus as you mention, it could have been Miracle in particular, due to the circumstances, you don't necessarily have to be a dog-lover to just really love and bond with a particular dog.

He also almost killed the neighbor's Yorkie in Exile on Main Street.  Accidentally, of course, but it does make me think that someone on the writing staff doesn't like Yorkies.  (The one in Dog Dean Afternoon was also pretty obnoxious).  😊

About the golden retriever in Mystery Spot, well, remember that they'd walked down that street, what, a hundred times before and after, and that was the *only* time Dean even acknowledged the dog, much less went over to it.  So I'd tend to think that it was another of Gabriel's setups just to get him killed (like having him walk under the piano at just the right time or looking the wrong way when crossing the street).  

But the point that I've been making all along is that I'm not saying Dean doesn't like dogs.  I'm saying that they haven't shown us one way or another, because, out of 300+ episodes, they never really had him have anything to do with dogs except when they come up in a case.  They've *shown* Sam liking dogs and going out of his way to get and keep one (even if it means running him over with a car) so I'd say it's canon that Sam likes dogs.  We can't say the same about Dean.  That's all.  

[ahrtee]

18 minutes ago, PinkChicken said:

imo the biggest pro-dog point is the fact that Dean is allergic to cats, so, slightly more limited options if they DID want a low effort pet. 

Well, we did see Dean cuddle a bunny.  But if they really were trying to keep pets secret from dad, something like a lizard or snake or any kind of insect would be much easier to hide.   I know a lot of people with various "unconventional" pets. 😊

 

[Katy M]

9 hours ago, ahrtee said:

But the point that I've been making all along is that I'm not saying Dean doesn't like dogs.  I'm saying that they haven't shown us one way or another, because, out of 300+ episodes, they never really had him have anything to do with dogs except when they come up in a case.  They've *shown* Sam liking dogs and going out of his way to get and keep one (even if it means running him over with a car) so I'd say it's canon that Sam likes dogs.  We can't say the same about Dean.  That's all.  

He did make a point of saying no dogs in the car in We Need to Talk About Kevin.  And Sam seemed to think he wouldn't want a dog in their motel room in Man's Best Friend.  But, Miracle was a miracle as the only living thing left and I can see Dean bonding in that one minute on that basis alone.

[SueB]

Dean getting cuddly with a dog is far easier for me to swallow than the well-adjusted Dean who was philosophical about Cas' death.  I think Dean could eventually GET to that point (philosophical) but no matter how well he fronted, we were always able to see the pain behind the front.  Jensen didn't suddenly lose acting abilities.  He choose to play Dean well-adjusted.  To me, that's the most important indicator of time passed.  But again, different indicators tell a different story.  So... uncerainty remains IMO.

[gonzosgirrl]

If we're meant to make unfounded assumptions, I'd say it's equally plausible that Gack found a way to let them know he'd saved Castiel from the Empty. So while Dean could miss his friend,  he could unselfishly be happy that the angel returned to heaven. Or they just believed he did. Nougat Baby brought him back once, no reason for them to think he wouldn't do it again.

ETA Dean didn't seem too shocked when Bobby told him Cas was there.

Edited December 9, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Castiels Cat]

16 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

Dean definitely grieved in Lost and Found - but he had lost Castiel, Mary, Crowley and Kelly all at the same time. 

Kelly?

The entirety of s 7 was Dean grieving and experiencing loss... Cas, Bobby's,  Baby, Bobby, Sam... almost.

Edited December 9, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[Castiels Cat]

On 12/6/2020 at 8:16 PM, tessathereaper said:

#4 especially.  Dean had been going off script, Dean got other characters to go off script.  Dean's bond with Amara, Dean's bond with Castiel, all of them were based on DEAN himself, not on Chuck.

If nothing else that would mean Dean would be the LEAST likely to have suddenly die on a piece of rebar after Chuck stopped writing.  It showed Dean as a kind of force of nature, one that not even Chuck could really control all that much.  If anything that really should have been explored more and again, if anything that should have given Dean a sort of special place in this universe.  Yes Dean was human, very human but through the strength of his own will, the generosity of his own heart, he'd kind of become more than that.

Yes. If the writers cared about this iconic character and series backstory and canon. Since Ouroboros it has been definitely demonstrated that they do not. They deconstructed nearly everything about Dean except Destiel... maybe.

I hope somebody leaks it someday. 

And not just Amara and Cas... Crowley.!! Ketch. Benny. It was not just Cas that was changed. These changes impacted how things played out.

Gadreel saved Sam because of Dean. Now Metatron corrupted him later...

Dean used to be so pivotal and it was not because Chuck wrote it that way. Chuck's interest in Dean is because Dean goes off script. That's been said in script by Chuck in multiple seasons.

I just do not understand these writers.

I guess they 

1. Backdoor pilot to the Jack Show

2. Pimped Sam for Walkee

3. There is a grudge

Edited December 9, 2020 by Castiels Cat

[gonzosgirrl]

I'm not saying he doesn't grieve. Dean feels things more deeply than any other character on the show. I'm saying he a) isn't always overt about it, and b) he's resilient. I don't find his actions in the opening montage or his words to Sadface Sam out of character or disrespect of Cas (certainly not Gack) in any way, and doesn't,  IMO, mean that months/years had to have passed for him to reach this point. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Mislav]

On 11/28/2020 at 4:39 PM, gonzosgirrl said:

- Dean dies and goes to Heaven, looking just like he did when he died, and meets Bobby, who looks just like he did when he died, and tells Dean that Heaven is fixed, no more Memorex, etc. But...

- Sam dies and goes to Heaven, (which we aren't supposed to believe is Dean's Heaven, but a communal place) and he looks just like he did... when Dean died.

Devil in the details, indeed.

 

Medium finale had the same problem/plot hole. And it was also horrible (for many reasons other than that one, obviously).

Edited December 10, 2020 by Mislav

[Castiels Cat]

On 12/9/2020 at 10:51 AM, gonzosgirrl said:

I'm not saying he doesn't grieve. Dean feels things more deeply than any other character on the show. I'm saying he a) isn't always overt about it, and b) he's resilient. I don't find his actions in the opening montage or his words to Sadface Sam out of character or disrespect of Cas (certainly not Gack) in any way, and doesn't,  IMO, mean that months/years had to have passed for him to reach this point. 

There should have been a Dean and Baby getting down and dirty. A car repair montage is how Dean mourns 

[MAK]

Can it be taken as canon that Sam did get married after Dean died?

Sam had a wedding band type ring on the correct finger when he picked up that boy labelled "Dean," also had one when he sat alone in the Impala with that horrible wig, couldn't really see if it was there in the scene at the table or the death bed scene.

There was no ring when he was by Dean's pyre or in the bunker later. As a side note, he had no ring when he went to Heaven.

[The Companion]

2 hours ago, MAK said:

Can it be taken as canon that Sam did get married after Dean died?

Sam had a wedding band type ring on the correct finger when he picked up that boy labelled "Dean," also had one when he sat alone in the Impala with that horrible wig, couldn't really see if it was there in the scene at the table or the death bed scene.

There was no ring when he was by Dean's pyre or in the bunker later. As a side note, he had no ring when he went to Heaven.

I would be surprised to see anyone taking the opposite position. I keep seeing people refer to the "blurry wife." I do think it's fairly clearly implied.

Now how it ended is ambiguous. She wasn't in the pictures when he died or at his deathbed. 

[MAK]

38 minutes ago, The Companion said:

I would be surprised to see anyone taking the opposite position. I keep seeing people refer to the "blurry wife." I do think it's fairly clearly implied.

Now how it ended is ambiguous. She wasn't in the pictures when he died or at his deathbed. 

Yes, her fate is ambiguous. I was only wondering what the consensus was since JP called her/him wife/partner/co-parent in an interview.  Personally I question the child Dean's biological parentage also. Sam possibly adopted him.

[The Companion]

2 hours ago, MAK said:

Yes, her fate is ambiguous. I was only wondering what the consensus was since JP called her/him wife/partner/co-parent in an interview.  Personally I question the child Dean's biological parentage also. Sam possibly adopted him.

Just like everything else in the finale, it's criminally underdeveloped. 

[Casseiopeia]

I knew that bridge looked familiar...

[ahrtee]

BECKY: No. You can’t.

CHUCK: I did.

BECKY: Y… this is just an ending.

CHUCK: Yeah. I don’t know how I’m gonna get there, but I know where I’m goin’.

BECKY: B-But it’s so…dark.

CHUCK: But great, right? I can see it now… “Supernatural: The End”. And the cover is just a gravestone that says “Winchester”. The fans are gonna love it. Well?

BECKY: It’s awful! Horrible. It’s hopeless. 

[BECKY gets up from the chair and walks around the desk to CHUCK.]

BECKY: You can’t do this to the fans. What you did to Dean? What you did to Sam?

CHUCK: There, see? It’s making you feel something. That’s good, right?

BECKY: No!

 

Sound familiar?  (It's from 15.4, "Atomic Monsters.")  Can't say Dabb didn't warn us, can we?  He even said it:

BECKY: Please… you can’t do this.

CHUCK: Oh, Becky. I can do anything.

[CHUCK steps closer to BECKY. He snaps his fingers. She disappears in a puff of dust.]

CHUCK: I’m writer.

[CHUCK grins.]

 

 

[FlickChick]

And to rub salt in the wound (no pun intended), Chuck - aka Dabb - said it in the episode that Jensen was directing.

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, FlickChick said:

And to rub salt in the wound (no pun intended), Chuck - aka Dabb - said it in the episode that Jensen was directing.

No surprise there. 

[LadyOracle]

In episode 15.14 Last Holiday with Mrs. Butters, I realized they teased us with Dean's death. When they did the montage of the guys getting lunch bags from Ms. Butters and going on hunts. They showed the guys entering that barn twice.

The finale episode came on TNT today and I couldn't watch it. I dont care what anyone says, that wasn't the end Sam and definitely Dean didn't deserved. To me, the writers simply were saying Dean was only good on earth for drinking beer and killing monsters. 

They should have left it open ended with them driving off into the sunset with Baby.

 

[PAForrest]

53 minutes ago, LadyOracle said:

In episode 15.14 Last Holiday with Mrs. Butters, I realized they teased us with Dean's death. When they did the montage of the guys getting lunch bags from Ms. Butters and going on hunts. They showed the guys entering that barn twice.

The finale episode came on TNT today and I couldn't watch it. I dont care what anyone says, that wasn't the end Sam and definitely Dean didn't deserved. To me, the writers simply were saying Dean was only good on earth for drinking beer and killing monsters. 

They should have left it open ended with them driving off into the sunset with Baby.

They were airing the last episodes on TNT? I haven't watched a second of SPN anywhere since the awful finale. I didn't realize TNT already had the rights to the last season.

Yeah, there's a whole lot better they could have done. Almost anything else would have been better than that, certainly for Dean.

[LadyOracle]

2 hours ago, PAForrest said:

They were airing the last episodes on TNT? I haven't watched a second of SPN anywhere since the awful finale. I didn't realize TNT already had the rights to the last season.

Yeah, there's a whole lot better they could have done. Almost anything else would have been better than that, certainly for Dean.

Yep! It aired today. I tried my best to avoid it, but I mistakenly caught the part where Dean met Sam on the bridge. 😒

[TheGreenKnight]

I saw it again, too. I didn't realize how hard it would be to watch again. I kept looking away from the screen throughout Dean's death scene and everything else until the bridge scene. :(

[gonzosgirrl]

5 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I saw it again, too. I didn't realize how hard it would be to watch again. I kept looking away from the screen throughout Dean's death scene and everything else until the bridge scene. 😞

And just think, if you do a series rewatch, every time Dean gets down and says or implies he won't live to grow old, he'll die bloody, etc., you'll know he's right. 😞

[BabySpinach]

28 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

And just think, if you do a series rewatch, every time Dean gets down and says or implies he won't live to grow old, he'll die bloody, etc., you'll know he's right. 😞

I've just finished my rewatch (stopped after s11 because not only is it a vastly better ending, but fuck Dabb) and that's exactly what kept running through my head the whole time.

[FlickChick]

17 hours ago, TheGreenKnight said:

I saw it again, too. I didn't realize how hard it would be to watch again. I kept looking away from the screen throughout Dean's death scene and everything else until the bridge scene. 😞

Even though it's been two months, I haven't been able to bring myself to watch the finale a second time. I have it on my DVR, so I can watch it whenever I want. I knew it was on TNT yesterday and was surprised they had the rights before any DVD sales. Hey, maybe they realize no one will want the DVDs of Badd's dumpster fire final season, so they released the rights to TNT. 😉

[ahrtee]

21 minutes ago, FlickChick said:

Even though it's been two months, I haven't been able to bring myself to watch the finale a second time. I have it on my DVR, so I can watch it whenever I want. I knew it was on TNT yesterday and was surprised they had the rights before any DVD sales. Hey, maybe they realize no one will want the DVDs of Badd's dumpster fire final season, so they released the rights to TNT. 😉

I think they have a regular timetable.  The show ends in May, DVDs released in September, and it goes to TNT probably in December.  I imagine they didn't (or couldn't) change the schedule this year just because the show didn't officially end till November.  

BTW, I did watch the last few eps on TNT.  Without the emotional anticipation (and disgust), I could see all the flaws, plot holes and stupidity a lot clearer than the first time around.  The whole ending was terribly, horribly written just from a literary POV, not even counting what it did to the characters.  

[FlickChick]

1 minute ago, ahrtee said:

BTW, I did watch the last few eps on TNT.  Without the emotional anticipation (and disgust), I could see all the flaws, plot holes and stupidity a lot clearer than the first time around.  The whole ending was terribly, horribly written just from a literary POV, not even counting what it did to the characters.

Maybe that's what I'm afraid of seeing. How very sad that this is what we have to see as an end to our show. 😞

[PAForrest]

18 hours ago, ahrtee said:

I think they have a regular timetable.  The show ends in May, DVDs released in September, and it goes to TNT probably in December.  I imagine they didn't (or couldn't) change the schedule this year just because the show didn't officially end till November. 

That could explain it. I went to Amazon and the final season dvd hasn't been released yet, and there's no release date attached to it. At this point maybe they'll just give it up and not bother since it's already airing on TNT. There are a couple of sets that claim to be full series sets, but I didn't actually look closely at them to see if that's the case.

Funny, I haven't bought any dvds since season five. The last couple of years, especially after the final season was announced, I thought to myself that I'd wait and see how the series ends. If it had a decent enough ending, I'd spring for a series set just to have it since I gave the damn thing 15 years of my life.

Of course, the ending was shit, so the upside is I'm saving money I would have spent on a series set that I won't now.

18 hours ago, FlickChick said:

Even though it's been two months, I haven't been able to bring myself to watch the finale a second time. I have it on my DVR, so I can watch it whenever I want.

The finale is still sitting on my dvr too, mocking me every time I go to the dvr to watch something else I've recorded. I dvr'd it that night thinking if it was good I'd watch a few more times before deleting it. Again, since it wasn't good, I haven't watched it - or any Supernatural - since that night. I'm going to give it 6 months. If I haven't watched the damn thing in 6 months - or at this point 4 more months since it's already been 2 - then I'll delete it unwatched. Sad.

Edited January 21, 2021 by PAForrest

[Katy M]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

here are a couple of sets that claim to be full series sets, but I didn't actually look closely at them to see if that's the case.

You made me curious so I checked. EBay has one that claims to be all 15 seasons, but it looks really suspicious.*  Amazon has 1-14 (and 1-13 and 1-10), but no 15.

*It says 5 have been sold.  I hope nobody's getting ripped off.

15 is going to be the only season I don't buy.  I found the whole thing to be ridiculous.  I enjoyed some of the scenes in Atomic Monsters and Proverbs 17:3, and I liked the bar scenes in the Last Call. And, I, a party of one, liked Carry On and the ending montage of Inherit the eArth, but that's not enough to make me buy an entire season, even if it means I don't end up with the complete set.

[Aeryn13]

1 hour ago, PAForrest said:

That could explain it. I went to Amazon and the final season dvd hasn't been released yet, and there's no release date attached to it. At this point maybe they'll just give it up and not bother since it's already airing on TNT. There are a couple of sets that claim to be full series sets, but I didn't actually look closely at them to see if that's the case.

Funny, I haven't bought any dvds since season five. The last couple of years, especially after the final season was announced, I thought to myself that I'd wait and see how the series ends. If it had a decent enough ending, I'd spring for a series set just to have it since I gave the damn thing 15 years of my life.

Of course, the ending was shit, so the upside is I'm saving money I would have spent on a series set that I won't now.

The finale is still sitting on my dvr too, mocking me every time I go to the dvr to watch something else I've recorded. I dvr'd it that night thinking if it was good I'd watch a few more times before deleting it. Again, since it wasn't good, I haven't watched it - or any Supernatural - since that night. I'm going to give it 6 months. If I haven't watched the damn thing in 6 months - or at this point 4 more months since it's already been 2 - then I'll delete it unwatched. Sad.

I will see if in a year or two I can stomach watching any SPN again but it's possible the Finale scorched the show for me in its entirety. Kinda like Game of Thrones. 

[gonzosgirrl]

I have a box set of S1-S8, and individuals fro 9, 10, 11. There is nothing that would induce me to purchase the Drabbernatural years. I hate how S15, and this episode in particular, tainted every bit of the story that came before it.

[trudysmom]

So glad I'm not the only one who has a hard time watching the show now.  Even episodes I love I find somewhat tainted by the shitshow that was the finale.  I've watched a few Youtube segments of favorites here and there, but with a heavy heart.  

[ahrtee]

I've come up with a new theory about what Sam did in the decades after Dean died:

He changed his name, settled down in Texas, and joined the Rangers.

It explains a lot.  So...he married (someone, who was only seen as blurry wife), and had two kids.  His wife was killed, giving him revenge as his driving force (and apparently also driving away his daughter, leaving only his son to take care of him.)  Maybe it'll turn out that his wife was killed by demons?  

ETA: he also took off for a year after his wife died, leaving his kids and his old life behind.  Maybe he hit a dog?  😊

 

Edited January 23, 2021 by ahrtee

[Harleycat]

I think showing Sam with the suburban life that he never wanted was the hardest thing to swallow in the episode.

Let's be real, Sam would make an awful father. He was in the role of being Dean's "kid" for way too long for that. He would have terrible PTSD, Mommy and Daddy issues, drinks daily, and sees his true life partner as his dead brother. Sounds like a super fun environment for a kid to grow up in. Now take all of that and add Sam's hard to please, rarely smiling unless smirking at other people's expense thing and make the kid live with that. Sucks to be that kid.

Why couldn't they just let Sam do Sam? Have him end up on a beach or in a big city or in the middle of nowhere with whoever his very understanding and patient life partner turned out to be and leave kids out of it.

[Supafanstan]

It's been a while but I had to come and say that this is probably the worst finale of any show I've ever watched. That's a list that includes Dexter and The Sopranos. Wow. One giant f**k y*u to the fans - well this fan anyway. It didn't even make sense. TBH it felt more like a commercial for Jared's new show than an ending for Supernatural. Pity, it used to be a fav to rewatch but I don't see how it could be enjoyed knowing it ends this way. I wish I had never watched this episode. 

[7kstar]

Just finished watching White Collar.  The ending pays tribute to the villain from Season 1 and it ends with the character true to their essence of who they were.  Now there are issues....

Which is why Supernatural is so disappointing?  It has such a rich history.  It could have tied it to the lore, to the history of the show.  Even if they had to have Dean die, they could have done it in a way that made a statement. 

No Final will ever please everyone, but to fail almost everyone shouldn't be the goal.  I own nothing of season 15 and I'm still taking a break from the show.  I'll watch again, but only one or two eps will be worth my time in the Dabb years.  I doubt I'll ever watch the final again.  I'll rewrite the ending for myself and ignore Dabbs.  I just need to give my self more time before I decide how I should end it.

[Demian]

On 1/20/2021 at 6:29 PM, ahrtee said:

BTW, I did watch the last few eps on TNT.  Without the emotional anticipation (and disgust), I could see all the flaws, plot holes and stupidity a lot clearer than the first time around.  The whole ending was terribly, horribly written just from a literary POV, not even counting what it did to the characters.  

This show was always bad.  Fun Bad, yes, but also:  Always Bad.

And I say this as a person who had a character named after me.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 hour ago, Demian said:

This show was always bad.  Fun Bad, yes, but also:  Always Bad.

And I say this as a person who had a character named after me.

Some aspects, maybe, but it also had moments of greatness. It was never consistently bad until, well  Badd.  It certainly deserved a better ending than it got. 

[tessathereaper]

2 hours ago, gonzosgirrl said:

Some aspects, maybe, but it also had moments of greatness. It was never consistently bad until, well  Badd.  It certainly deserved a better ending than it got. 

Yes it did.  There were some really great episodes and people who put their heart and soul into making the show.  Then we get Badd and he couldn't care less, IMO it was just a paycheck to him, that he hopes will lead to his own big new thing.  Certainly there were other bad writers and show runners but he was the one who seemed to really just not care to the point that he seemed to be trying to run the show into the ground.