S15.E19: Inherit the Earth

[BabySpinach]

6 minutes ago, The Companion said:

Agreed. She was trapped by her brother for centuries, finally saw some good in the world and then was convinced by her shitty brother that everything was trash (with no perspective) and trapped again. 

And we're supposed to be happy with this because McNougat (aka the writers) proclaimed that she was totally content, you guys! Regardless of all her previously established character, she's just peachy being a voiceless, bodiless extension of a man! I hope she gives him cosmic indigestion for the rest of eternity.

Edited November 13, 2020 by BabySpinach

[Aeryn13]

2 minutes ago, Bobcatkitten said:

One thing that made ZERO sense was them not saying a word about bringing back Cas. It was a hole that you could put an aircraft carrier through. And also they didn't mention whether all the people God had vanished were alive - like say Eileen and Jody and Donna? 

It is ridiculous that SuperMegaStu!Jack wouldn`t just do it. It`s clear God has power over the Empty so if Chuck could do it, he could do it. He shouldn`t have needed any prompting even. Do a line of dialogue like "and Cas is happily back in heaven" even. 

Jack being full of himself for being "hands off" and a hippy-dippy kind of God being portrayed as this great new thing is hilarious. Despite all the meta-inserts about Chuck and his story, there were eons before the Winchesters and Chuck was just the same, hands off and "let people figure it out for themselves bla bla". The Nougat ain`t exactly breaking new ground here.

[Katy M]

50 minutes ago, bethy said:

Hm. I may actually watch this one. Not actively offensive and Dean with a dog? Okay.

I was actively offended.  But, yeah, the dog scene was cute and sweet.

 

44 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

If you played a drinking game every time he said the word "guys" you'd be... dead now.

Guys, stay down. Stay down, guys. Guys, stay down. GUYS! GUYS STAY DOWN GUYS!!!

Guys? Guys, wait. Guys, guys wait. GUYS? Wait, guys. GUYS! WAIT! GUYS.

 

And imagine if you had added in how many times Sam and Dean got supernaturally thrown back.

[The Companion]

4 minutes ago, BabySpinach said:

And we're supposed to be happy with this because McNougat (aka the writers) proclaimed that she was totally content, you guys! Regardless of all her previously established character, she's just peachy being a voiceless, bodiless extension of a man! I hope she gives him cosmic indigestion for the rest of eternity.

Yep. We don't even need to hear it from her! They would have worked it in but they needed 2,000 establishing shots of empty places and random extras, 5,000 repetitions of the same line by Chuck and Mark Pellegrino. 

[S Cook Productions]

7 hours ago, Smad said:

To quote Crowley: Well this was an utter dog's breakfast.

Not more to say to this crapfest.

I didn't know dogs had breakfast...

[BabySpinach]

1 minute ago, The Companion said:

Yep. We don't even need to hear it from her! They would have worked it in but they needed 2,000 establishing shots of empty places and random extras, 5,000 repetitions of the same line by Chuck and Mark Pellegrino. 

Just thinking about Chuck's beatdown of the boys has me laughing hysterically.

Like @gonzosgirrl so eloquently put it, the same repeated shots of them being punched in the face and the eternity-long verbal keysmashing of GUYSGUYSSTAYDOWNGUYSGUYSCOMEONGUYSGUYSGUYSWTFBBQASDFGHJKL was fucking hilarious.

[Bergamot]

One thing that I did like in the episode was the tie-in to what Castiel was talking about in the previous episode, in regard to who Dean is. Dean was always designed from the beginning to be nothing more than a weapon -- his father's blunt instrument, Michael's sword, Chuck's "perfect killer". But he rejected that destiny, and as Castiel confirmed, anyone who really knew Dean, knew that this was not what Dean was all about. When Dean told Chuck, "That's not who we are", I think that what he was saying was his final repudiation of this destiny: "That's not who I am."

[Commando Cody]

What the fruck was that?

This show came in on fire.  It went out in a puff of smoke. 

 

[gonzosgirrl]

16 minutes ago, Commando Cody said:

What the fruck was that?

This show came in on fire.  It went out in a puff of smoke. 

 

Badd put the fire out by pissing all over it.

[SueB]

Rewatched, as I usually do. This really DID feel like the end.  But it's not, so I'm interested in next week.

Onto my specific thoughts on plot, mythology, character, production (see Bottom Line for the TL; DR):

Plot: I generally LIKE the plot.  

3 hours ago, bettername2come said:

a solid evil plan. 

hee (nice characterization).  True.  It was. The family business is 'saving people, hunting things'.  There were no people, no things to hunt.  Existential nightmare and all.  I also liked that the boys knew the players so well that they could MacGyver a solution using a book with empty pages as the key McGuffin.  I personally LIKED the flashback (generally I don't but we've seen about 6 different 'plans' fail this season -- so I was ready for a reveal version).    I liked the team effort - Sam and Dean (I think) expected Chuck to torture and then kill them, all the while expending "God energy" for Jack to absorb.  I feel like they must have been giggling a bit that it was an old fashioned beat-down -- kept it going a bit, got Jack more power. As a 'season ender', it definitely resolved the main issue: agency.  They got their agency back, they were free. Not getting Cas back makes no sense but they didn't explain Jack's capabilities so... who knows what plotonium prevented that. 

Mythology: This is the part I liked the least. BL always get the heavy lifting mythology scripts and once again, they did the LoL!Canon moves and super shortcuts, making leaps to get from point A to point B. Individual threads:

• "God power is good"- the only part I liked.  It says that the creations (nature and people) are inherently God creations and that the godpower in them is a good thing.  I'm a believer in "man is inherently good" philosophy.
• "You can switch Gods" - yeah, not my favorite.  Now it IS consistent with the theory that everything Supernatural can be defeated is a variation on a preexisting theme ('same sort of monster, just a bigger ego'). So it's not out of the blue.  I just don't relate to it. At all.  For those that do, congrats.  Just not my cup of tea.
• "Jack is nuGod" - well, IF you are replacing God, Jack is the best choice IMO.  He's the amalgamation of Sam, Dean, Castiel, and Kelly.  With nurture clearly beating nature.   And we've bought INTO Sam/Dean/Cas's world view.  So, in essence THEIR world view, with some serious Zen from Amara mixed in, is the nuGod.  It's a bit of an ultimate win for TFW that their "son" is the big guy (hands off).
• 'Absorbing part of the Empty made Jack a power 'black hole': Works as a concept but the selective way it turned on and off was classic BL plothole.  They've had worse.  
• 'Death DOES outlast Chuck' - While simultaneously being part of the created universe.  It means Death as an fact of 'nature' is beyond the being that created it.  Could have secrets (the book) that the creator couldn't read.  I'm chalking that one up to "mystery".  And I'm okay with it.  
• 'Heaven/Hell are ... not addressed' - I assume Jack can take care of the souls in Heaven (IF they are still there). And I can imagine NO ONE from either plane of existence was going to show up with Chuck laser focused on toying with The Winchesters. BUT, I'd like to know if that construct still exists?

Character: Ah, the GOOD stuff.  This, for me, has always been a character driven show so this is what I NEED to have done right in order to be okay with the show.  I'd say it was generally done right but a little skimpy.

• Sam: Felt guilty that he stopped Dean on his revenge tour to kill Chuck and so he proposed the 'surrender' strategy.  Now it's a flawed guilt concept because Chuck WROTE IT. And Dean was never going to kill Sam over it.  BUT, it's classic Sam and he (like Dean) would gladly play Chuck's game to save people.  I liked that when he woke Dean from his bender that it was with compassion because of the loss of Cas.  I wish we had seen Sam react more to Cas' death.  At least a conversation with Jack would have been warranted.  OTOH, that Cas would sacrifice himself to save Dean is something Sam would accept without question.  
• Dean: Excellent end point - rejecting the 'killer' label and accepting Cas' truth regarding who he really is.  That was a truly satisfying moment.  Drunken stoicism about Cas' death - yep, that coping mechanism seems permanent.  Would I have LIKED to see him open a vein about Cas' death?  Why yes, I would.  But it's unrealistic that he'd be ready to talk about that anytime soon.  That was a LOT to process.  I expect a plethora of fanfic will show up with the entire spectrum of interpretations of what Dean's response will be.  I AM pissed that they did not have Dean retract the "Jack is not family" statement.  On the one hand, a direct retraction is not always said on this show.  AND the initials on the table seemed to be pretty much "family only" IMO. But I really didn't like him saying that in the first place and wanted it erased.  I'll take the initials as a peace offering and move on.  
• Jack: The little nougat that could.  Good ending.  I think he's the right being for the job, especially with Amara 'balanced' inside.  I could have used a little Amara snark popping out so that we knew she had agency.  I'm bothered by her lack of direct commentary.  I REALLY needed a hug with Sam and Dean at the end and was denied.  Was that a production choice, a plot point, COVID?  I think it was a plot point - in which case I don't like the aloofness.  He's still Jack.  He may have Amara's wisdom and Winchester values but if he's still Jack, being able to talk to Sam and Dean over dinner from time to time would be good.  Again, I at least wanted a hug.  
• Chuck: WHAT A DISSAPPOINTMENT.  He was full-on evil to the bitter end.  I do like that his just desserts are to actually BE the nebbish-y guy with no powers and a HACK writer (assuming he tries that).  But I was hoping he would learn something from it all.  After EONs to have his ego finally get out of control to where he's fighting his initial rules (e.g free will) seems ... meh.  I mean I GET the Winchesters are stubborn, but stubborn enough to drive Chuck off the rails and actually get involved in the story (which Jack said was his downfall)?  IDK.  He's has 'press clippings' for centuries from the various Earths - why did they go to his head in the last century to the point that he made so many mistakes?  I don't know.  Arrogant distant god-figure is par.  Driven to evil monologuing due to flannel?  Mmmmmm... nope.
• Micheal: Without Lucifer he is BORING.  Not insane like AU Michael. And foisted another retcon (is Michael responsible for religions??).
• Lucifer: Still pathetically giggly to be called on by Dad.  Still snappy dialog.  Didn't really need him for the episode but gave me a few chuckles.

Production: To be completely honest, the 'all people are gone' plot was already there because the script was done pre-COVID.  MAYBE they *poofed* them versus having them drop dead where they stood as a COVID thing? 18 was pre-COVID though so... IDK.  Regardless, the lack of people made the COVID restrictions pretty seamless IMO.  If I look for them, I can absolutely see them.  But if I didn't know, I wouldn't have noticed.  I think the director did well with the script he had.  Again, Buck-Lemming squeeze too much in, making it smooth is tough.  Kudos to Post-Production for the songs and the montage.  I DID like the montage.  Missed Lisa and Ben.  Maybe because they 'got out?' Extra bonus points for getting Jody's voice mail (Kim Rhodes got a credit!).  I suspect we lost her actual presence in the episode (although not sure when it would be).  

 

Bottom Line for the TL;DR:  Plot was generally good with a satisfying return of agency for the boys.  Mythology was iffy, I'm not cool with casually swapping out "God" (it points out the weakness of Chuck as the villain in the first place IMO).  The character work was delicious as always.  Production did well.  I will watch again but it's not anywhere near my top 20 episodes.  A solid wrap up, how I feel about it depends on next week I think.  

Edited November 13, 2020 by SueB

[Katy M]

I was thinking about something earlier.  Jack is still the moronic child he's been the last 3 years.  I don't think more power will change that.  This whole resolution seems unstable to me.

[appositival]

9 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

What in the name of Chuck (Jack?) are they going to do for the actual finale next week?

I'm guessing that Jack will come back and say that he can't do it himself. He will become Brahma (the creator), Dean will become Shiva (the destroyer - who is actually just the god of change), and Sam will become Vishnu (the preserver). Instead of damnation, reincarnation will be the punishment, and everyone will live (and die repeatedly) happily ever after.

15 years of leaping backwards when someone waves their hand finally comes to an end.

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, Katy M said:

I was thinking about something earlier.  Jack is still the moronic child he's been the last 3 years.  I don't think more power will change that.  This whole resolution seems unstable to me.

Yup, his head will be turned by the first rogue angels who offers him a nougat bar.

[Gbb]

My feelings on the episode are starting to solidify, so why not share them? 🙂

I'm still conflicted (lots of good, bad and meh to go around) but I've come to the conclusion that the biggest problem with 19 isn't what happened but how it happened.  The idea Jack's mega-explosion in the empty led to him becoming a power-absorbing black hole isn't a bad one. It even (kinda) works with the laws of physics. The idea that Chuck pulled Lucifer from the Empty to steal the book and that Michael (in his anger over Daddy's rejection) initially worked with Sam & Dean but betrayed them to win back Daddy's love also makes perfect sense. That Sam & Dean could read all the players involved and figure out a way to outsmart Chuck is in character and very satisfying. Whoever mentioned above that they used Jack as a tool made me feel much better about Jack being the savior.

So all of that works. The problem is that they tried to cram all of that into a single episode so we never had any time for the tension to build, to wonder what was going on, to ask the whys. If they had started this part of the arc 5 or 6 episode back, we could have gotten invested and felt the tension build. Michael could have begun to work with them when Chuck began destroying the AU worlds. Sam and Dean should have come up with the plan to find and kill a reaper to get a new Death to read the book. Lucifer could have gotten involved at that point, and we could have had a whole episode around finding/killing a reaper and the guys using Lucifer while not trusting him. Meanwhile in the background, we could start seeing Jack's eyes glow any time Michael or Lucifer expended power and we could wonder what was going on with him. We could even see him encouraging them to use their power unnecessarily as Sam and Dean exchange a look in the background. At the time it would have been ambiguous. Were they worried about Jack? Maybe we have a scene shortly after Michael and Lucifer are in the mix where Dean says to Sam, "We need to talk about Jack." Enough to let us know they're aware of or worried about something but not enough to give away the game.

I don't mind the theme of the ending, Sam & Dean winning back their free will over Chuck by outsmarting him. I just think it could have been written much, much more effectively.

[gonzosgirrl]

I don't imagine for a moment that Badd is done screwing Dean/Jensen over. Since he can't use Nougat Boy to do it, it will be Sam. There's a reason Jared loves the finale and I'm 100% sure we haven't seen it yet.

[Aeryn13]

With the Thanos snap they were pulling, I initially thought they would also redo some Tony and some Cap ending. But now I see they stayed true to Warner Bros and took their inspiration from Justice League where a lame bad guy was pretty much beating on the entire league in the final fight till Superman swooped in and easily defeated him.

[The Companion]

So, wait. Do we think Jack brought back everyone Chuck killed or just the final snapees? Like, did the world of OtherDean and ManbunSam get restored? What about Becky and her family? SOMEONE PLEASE TELL BECKY ABOUT DESTIEL. 🤣

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, The Companion said:

So, wait. Do we think Jack brought back everyone Chuck killed or just the final snapees? Like, did the world of OtherDean and ManbunSam get restored? What about Becky and her family? SOMEONE PLEASE TELL BECKY ABOUT DESTIEL. 🤣

My guess is just the final snapees.  I'm disappointed that Chuck specifically told her that her husband and kids weren't dead, but away.  Did the same thing to her.  Killed everybody with the same puff of smoke last episode, and it just turns out that yes, they were dead. Apparently. Why even have that line in the first place?

[Smad]

2 episodes ago God made it clear that he's ALL KNOWING about everything (which makes sense since he is IN everything) except his death book. But sure, these guys can make a 'secret' plan how to take him down out of nowhere.

Also a God (who is fused with his just as powerful sister no less) punch to a human would vaporize said human but sure, lets have God give the guys some little love taps.

I can't even think of Amara without approaching 'rage' territory. How completely tone deaf are these people? They are lucky their most vocal 'fans' don't seem to care about this.

I also still can't believe a toddler that a 10 year old could manipulate and who has no understanding of anything is now the new God. My brain literally can't process this stupidity.

[tessathereaper]

9 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I admit I would have hated it way more if it only had been Dean again. But it is such a blah ending.

I was never convinced by any of the contortions to made it seem like Dean had an important role in 5.22. But honestly even that had more merit to me than what the Winchesters were reduced to here, at the big climax of their story. I can't even squint and twist myself into a pretzel to believe they mattered.

Yeah I would have been spitting mad if it was just Dean they sidelined again but clearly Dabb made sure neither Winchester mattered.

[Katy M]

8 minutes ago, Smad said:

I can't even think of Amara without approaching 'rage' territory. How completely tone deaf are these people? They are lucky their most vocal 'fans' don't seem to care about this.

Honestly, I can't be bothered to care about Amara when there's so much more that I'm annoyed with.  I think they would have been better off just not mentioning her at all, tbh.

 

9 minutes ago, Smad said:

I also still can't believe a toddler that a 10 year old could manipulate and who has no understanding of anything is now the new God. My brain literally can't process this stupidity.

That should be the next episode.  S&D realizing that this is not a good idea and killing Jack.

[Aeryn13]

26 minutes ago, Smad said:

2 episodes ago God made it clear that he's ALL KNOWING about everything (which makes sense since he is IN everything) except his death book. But sure, these guys can make a 'secret' plan how to take him down out of nowhere.

Also a God (who is fused with his just as powerful sister no less) punch to a human would vaporize said human but sure, lets have God give the guys some little love taps.

Not to mention the idea that he needs to exert heavy amounts of God power doing so. How much of God's power level does it take to beat two humans? 0.0000000000001 %? Lets say killing Michael took 5 %. So the Nougat would have realistically guzzled up Lucy, Michael (both easily smiteable by Chuck) and an extra of a fraction of a quark from Chuck. That should have leveled him up to say 12 % of Chuck (minus Amara's power), to be generous.

Edited November 13, 2020 by Aeryn13

[OrigamiNightmare]

I ... I, I'm still gathering my thoughts, but one thing I'll add is that I never want to hear Lucifer say "cuck" again uggggh I cringed. 

[Gbb]

@Binns posted this in Spoilers with Speculation and I wanted to post it here because (a) it's not a spoiler, (b) it relates directly to this conversation about how bad the finale was and (c) it's so brilliant that I will now almost cry if it doesn't turn out to mean something important:

 

[Binns]

12 minutes ago, Gbb said:

@Binns posted this in Spoilers with Speculation and I wanted to post it here because (a) it's not a spoiler, (b) it relates directly to this conversation about how bad the finale was and (c) it's so brilliant that I will now almost cry if it doesn't turn out to mean something important:

 

I feel like it’s dumb of me to hope the writers will pull this out but here I am! Having hope! 

[gonzosgirrl]

What 'fan character'? ETA: never mind. I looked at the tweet. And then I gagged. Again and some more.

Edited November 13, 2020 by gonzosgirrl

[Gbb]

So I went back and rewatched the scene from 15:4. The "no classic rock, no mention of Cas, low-stakes ending" response was to Chuck's first draft. After she said that, he rewrote it to the one with the "Winchester" gravestone that she found so cruel and dark. I'm guessing the new script is the one where Dean was supposed to kill Sam that they refused to follow. So I think Char on Twitter has a cool idea but I don't think it's a grand plan by the SPN writers 😞

Edited November 13, 2020 by Gbb

[Binns]

Just now, Gbb said:

So I went back and rewatched the scene from 15:4. The "no classic rock, no mention of Cas, low-stakes ending" response was to Chuck's first draft. After she said that, he rewrote it to the one she found so cruel and dark. So I think Char on Twitter has a cool idea but I don't think it's a grand plan by the SPN writers 😞

Oh, jeez, I was excited for a minute. Well, at least we know the cruel dark one is off the table. 

[OrigamiNightmare]

15 hours ago, BabySpinach said:

Glad to see the return of the Winchesters actually willing to sacrifice themselves for the world. And for Sam to take some blame for the whole debacle, since he was the one who pushed back hardest against the original plan. And I have to say that the concept of a completely empty world with just the Winchesters and Jack left to be pretty haunting ie. utterly stripping them of all purpose. The shots of empty cities were striking, even with the show's bottom-barrel budget.

And of course Jack continues to be the obnoxious plot device who becomes whatever the plot needs him to be. And becomes the new God, which many of us predicted. Nothing shiny or cool for the main characters to do, of course! And Amara is officially confirmed to be gone, her unexplained bond with Dean having amounted to zilch just like I'd feared. 

Winchesters had pretty much fuck-all to do. With us predicting either/both of their deaths or transformations, seems like the reality is that they just continue sticking around same as always? Gotta say, extremely, extremely underwhelming. 

I wonder what the hell the series finale has in store, if anything. At least the Winchesters will be the focus of it. Maybe they'll get their final fates decided then.

I want fan fic of them in in desolate world! I love supernatural apocalypse fic and there's not enough of it (recs welcomed! I need some good fan fic to cleanse my palette, and yes, I'll check the thread, but most of the recs I came across seemed to be slash in nature and I'm mostly looking for gen fics). Anyway, back on topic, I'm just at a loss. It was just, as many have said, so underwhelming. I'm not sure what I was expecting, but it sure as shit wasn't that and maybe they had an impossible task in wrapping it all up and of course it was never going to be perfect and all of that, but the pacing of the whole episode was just all over the place. I would've loved to see the brothers killed or transformed or something, anything. I do like that Jack is gone now so that the last episode will have to focus on just Sam and Dean, small blessing in that. I cringed when Lucifer showed up. My favourite version of Lucifer is when Jared is playing. All I kept thinking of was the scene in "The End" where Dean confronts Samifer and he's wearing that white suit. Wait can we post videos in posts (I'm still pretty new here). I hope this is ok?

Ok, we all know this scene. I just wanted everyone to watch it again and contrast it with Lucifer screaming "you're a cuck! you're cuck!". Ugggh I cringed in second hand embarrassment. I think I'm mentally struggling to try to find a way to like the episode, because I need to like, but no because I actually do. If that makes sense?  

[OrigamiNightmare]

16 hours ago, PAForrest said:

What the holy hell was that?

So they really never veered from their original end with Princess Jackie Poo Sue as the ultimate Deus Ex Machina, and the Winchesters ... well they were allowed to be there to do and be nothing and witness Dabb's pet as the lone hero of this 15 year show. Wow, that was petty. That's about the nicest description I have for it.

Nothing about what will happened to the tortured angels and demons in the Empty, no fixing Heaven - it's still a shitty memorex place. No Garden, no nothing, no peace when the guys do finally die.

And the Winchesters go back to doing what exactly next week? I guess Cas really is just rotting in the Empty.

There was no soul or emotion in this episode. It was dull and utterly one-dimensional.

 

 

Exactly! There was no soul or emotion in the episode it was bizarre.

[ahrtee]

11 hours ago, Terese said:

You know, there is both merit and precedent in you say. Film is art, art is protected. You can't colorize black and white film, paint a mustache on the Mona Lisa, or retcon and otherwise diminish a good story and its. characters .  Throw in a class action lawsuit for pain and suffering and nail his ass.

Actually, you can.  In copyright, it's called "derivative works" and, TBH, that's what the Dabb show has been--entirely derivative.  It uses some of the same characters but is not really connected to the original in any meaningful way.  

  

[Myrelle]

1 hour ago, tessathereaper said:

Yeah I would have been spitting mad if it was just Dean they sidelined again but clearly Dabb made sure neither Winchester mattered.

Ah, but there's still one more episode to go and Dabb is writing it and apparently JP "loved" it from the get-go and he's called it his favorite episode of the entire series while Jensen was only iffy on it to begin with and was pretty much, and at best, talked into liking it.

 

[BoxManLocke]

1 hour ago, Gbb said:

@Binns posted this in Spoilers with Speculation and I wanted to post it here because (a) it's not a spoiler, (b) it relates directly to this conversation about how bad the finale was and (c) it's so brilliant that I will now almost cry if it doesn't turn out to mean something important:

 

 

I'd trust the fact that the showrunner has been a complete buffoon for the last three years more than the delusional words of somebody who doesn't even watch the show, but hey, that's just me.

 

I don't think you realize how much, much worse this episode could have been considering who wrote it. Trust me, I'm a BuckLeming expert and seasoned masochist.

[gonzosgirrl]

I'd just like to go on record that as far as I am concerned Jack is not, and never was, Dean and Sam's family, found or otherwise. At best, he was their responsibility, and even then that's on Cas more than them. I'm personally glad that Dean didn't take it back. He did apologize for making the Nougat feel bad, and recognized his (potential) sacrifice as a brave act. That's more than the character deserved, IMO.

[tennisgurl]

So are we going to find out next week if Eileen and other people who got resurrected and the AU people are alive again? Are the other worlds that Chuck destroyed alright now? Did Gack (God Jack) put them all back or did he just forget? Is there any reason he cant resurrect Cas now? You would think that would be one of the first things Dean would ask about, it was the first thing he yelled at Chuck about. Or are we just going to forget about all that, despite all of the drama about it last week and Sam getting all angsty about his girlfriend getting dusted? Its so weird that none of that was brought up, even in a throw away line, and Sam and Dean just ran off to the car without asking Gack about Eileen or Cas or anyone. 

I guess Gack managing to get rid of Chuck while still allowing the universe to continue with a new, more benevolent God, is the best way to handle the whole "lets kill God!" endgame the show wanted, but its all just so...lame. I don't feel like Jack has really grown enough to handle this power, and while I don't hate the idea that the Winchesters and company helped him grow enough to became a better kind of God, I just don't think there was enough time for that to really sink in. It doesn't help that his last big speech was ridiculously cringy. "You can see me in the water droplets, in the waves of the ocean, in the bird crap that hits your car..." it sounds less like a wise and benign godly vow to care for all people, and more like he was reading a greeting card with a Carebear on it. I don't think that Gack is ready for this responsibility at all, he is still basically a three year old who is still learning how to use his power responsibly, and still needs Sam, Dean, and Cas to help him figure out what is right and what is wrong. Are they going to show up and sometimes be like "no, no smiting! Bad Jack!" in the astral plane sometimes? I suppose not, but none of this fills me with confidence about his god abilities. It also continues to make Same and Dean, the show's heroes, into supporting characters in their own series. 

Poor Amara, despite being one of the most powerful beings in the universe, she ended up having no agency in her own existence whatsoever. I really dislike how they basically had to depower all of these super powerful celestial beings and lords of hell and such and turned them all into such easily defeated non threats just to keep the show going and the guys still in the game. People like Amara end up just being weak willed easily manipulated idiots, they are easy to take out, Death goes from being this powerful force of nature to just a job title that any random reaper grunt can get, and I guess now God is the same, none of these positions are big deals I guess, its just like getting a new job and having new business cards made. I know I have beat this drum before, but the show made a big mistake going so hard on the heavenly family drama and the millions of godly beings that just kept popping up over and over (God is the biggest thing! No wait, its the darkness! No wait, its Amara, no wait...) to try and keep upping the stakes. I don't mind the introduction of god and the angels and everything (demons were introduced right from the start, so celestial beings also existing makes sense) and a lot of good stuff came from that, but it just ended up totally swallowing the show. I think they should have taken a few breaks from them in a few seasons, maybe around season twelve or thirteen or so, and focused on new arc bad guys, maybe focus on the pagan gods that were utterly wasted, or the fairies from the fairy world who were established to possibly be even more powerful than the angels, or have a faction of the government find out about monsters and try to fight them, or have a bunch of monsters try and create a monster alliance, or focus on some more of them trying to integrate into a more modern world, there was a lot of stuff they could have done to give a break from angels and demons, which would have not only been something different, but would have let those threats stay powerful, without having to nerf them or come up with increasingly huge and yet ridiculous threats for the guys to fight. But that's not what the show the writers wanted, they love them some heavenly melodrama, so here we are. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by tennisgurl

[shoetingstar]

14 hours ago, sarthaz said:

Dafuq was that?

Exactly.

14 hours ago, sarthaz said:

Dabb should go to prison. Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.

I need ya'll help - Please tell me ALL the projects Dabb is involved in. So that I can be SURE to NOT watch or support anything touched by this Assclown ever again, Amen. lol

Edited November 13, 2020 by shoetingstar

[Myrelle]

8 minutes ago, gonzosgirrl said:

I'd just like to go on record that as far as I am concerned Jack is not, and never was, Dean and Sam's family, found or otherwise. At best, he was their responsibility, and even then that's on Cas more than them. I'm personally glad that Dean didn't take it back. He did apologize for making the Nougat feel bad, and recognized his (potential) sacrifice as a brave act. That's more than the character deserved, IMO.

This.

So much.

For me too.

For me the only way Dabb can fix this mess is by making the whole storyline of "God as the villainous writer" completely moot, because I absolutely HATE! what that storyline did to the entire series and to all the Winchesters from the very beginning.

 

[Gbb]

7 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Gack (God Jack)

This is hilarious. And, considering how often (and why) my cat makes that sound, very accurate.

[OrigamiNightmare]

16 hours ago, shoetingstar said:

I can't fully describe how much I disliked this!!! I actually don't enjoy an hour of the boys being tortured mentally, physically and emotionally, only for the Fetus to save the day.

Jack killed God. Dabb got all he wanted. What a dick. This is embarrassing.

WTF with these Hallmark Lifetime song montages? aye aye aye...

 

The music was awful and totally took me out of the scene (and it was really hard to get into the scene in the first place).

[OrigamiNightmare]

I just thought of the worst possible thing they can do in next weeks episode ... a fucking time jump. Ugh, I mean Six Feet Under pulled it off amazingly well, but Dabb and crew don't have that kind of talent.

I just thought of the worst possible thing they can do in next weeks episode ... a fucking time jump. Ugh, I mean Six Feet Under pulled it off amazingly well, but Dabb and crew don't have that kind of talent.

[OrigamiNightmare]

I'm struggling to remember how Lucifer killed new death (Betsy or whatever). Didn't he stab her with a knife or something? I thought Death could only be killed by his own scythe? 

[PAForrest]

4 hours ago, Katy M said:

That should be the next episode.  S&D realizing that this is not a good idea and killing Jack.

Especially considering Gack - btw, brilliant since his very presence makes me want to hurl - is already every bit the narcissist with a lame robotic voice. He's all me-me-me, I'm hands off, but I'm everywhere, it's all about me-Me-ME!!!!! No real thanks or credit to the brothers or Cas, he was actually very dismissive of them, as if they were just any randoms on the street. It's simply not my job to pretend the writers meant for D&S to be really important to the brat. If it doesn't come across like that on screen, especially with these very one-dimensional writers, it doesn't exist.

However, my point is Chuckles was all 'I'm in everything, hands off', not seen for millennia after millennia, etc. etc., until such a time that he wasn't because the new showrunner wanted to trash him. And we are where we are.

Chances are high that Gack is going to break bad at some point in the future too, just like gramps. because that bloodline (pun intended) is clearly poison. He'll need to be put down eventually - why not get a head start is all I'm saying.

Amara's end was a disgrace - the most powerful female in creation and she's absorbed like a slushee for the glory of not one but two little Wonder Bread white boys. Where is the fake woke crowd now? I'm guessing they care as much as they did when they were all 'Mary's awesome 'cuz she ain't a mom, she's badass - whoops, Jack killed her, what was her name, Mary Who?!?'

Exactly.

Edited November 13, 2020 by PAForrest

[ahrtee]

From Tippi on the TV:
A dog showed up and I got REAL WORRIED because I do not trust Bucklemming with dogs.

[Aeryn13]

26 minutes ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

I'm struggling to remember how Lucifer killed new death (Betsy or whatever). Didn't he stab her with a knife or something? I thought Death could only be killed by his own scythe? 

He killed her with an angel blade when she was just a reaper - to make her death.

What I hated was how the brothers were made to look dumbfounded by that. They KNOW the first reaper killed after Death becomes new Death. 

[tennisgurl]

So, what do we think is the most ridiculous level of Creator Worship a character can get in a series finale? Gack saving the entire world singlehandedly and becoming God, or the last episode of Once Upon a Time where villain turned Mary Sue Creators Favorite Regina conquered the entire fictional multiverse and was "elected" queen of the universe for life and the whole show ended with the whole multiverse applauded her as their new God Empress? 

In fact, now that I think about it, the two shows have quite a lot in common in their endings. Both shows end with the creators favorite character hijacking the show from the actual heroes to become the new star of the show (and have been doing that for several seasons), they end up saving the day practically on their own with a poorly explained magical power up pulled out of the writers ass, a supposedly epic climax that is hilariously underwhelming where the fate of the world lies in the balance of people standing around waving jazz hands, the favorite character becomes a super powerful being by basically doing nothing to earn it and never having to deal with the consequences of their own actions and are still only thinking of themselves even as they take a huge amount of responsibility over billions of people? Its all there, this whole show has been Once 2.0 all along! Gack help us all! Granted, I will take Jack over Regina any day of the week, considering Jack killed one person by accident when he lost his soul, while Regina murdered, tortured, and raped her way through a whole country just because she felt like it and never even had to say more than a quick "my bad guys, but to be fair to me, my mom was mean" but the similarities are just uncanny. This is what happens when the show runner gets a favorite, they totally overtake the show to the point that the show isn't even the same show that people once loved anymore. 

Edited November 13, 2020 by tennisgurl

[slaterain]

19 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

And the music... when did Supernatural get the musical score of a cheesy action movie made by the Hallmark channel.

 

9 hours ago, BoxManLocke said:

On another note, how did you guys like the super obnoxious music we got throughout the episode ? Really finishes the bootleg Supernatural experience.

 

45 minutes ago, OrigamiNightmare said:

I just thought of the worst possible thing they can do in next weeks episode ... a fucking time jump. Ugh, I mean Six Feet Under pulled it off amazingly well, but Dabb and crew don't have that kind of talent.

The music, that montage - it was HORRIBLE! It was like they tried to do an emotional wrap up a la Six Feet Under and failed miserably. The montage was choppy and seemed to be more of a bad dvd outtakes bonus. There was no flow, highlighted random characters that we didn't need to see again and blitzed through ones that I wish they had paused on. I have seen way better fan videos done with the basics of video editing. And I thought this must be the final episode until the stay tuned for scenes... and the music choice - now was the time to pull out Kansas or AC/DC or something powerful. Paradoxlost nailed it with the hallmark music comparison !

[Aeryn13]

To give a tiny bit of a positive, the brothers getting back up and up and up through the beating was on some level a nice character assessment. It could have been really touching and meaningful in a better episode.

I do think I shall be inspired to do the same and get back up again after Badd punches show, characters and fans down one last time and refuse to acknowledge his Seasons aka give him power. To leave him as a whiny pathetic mess on the floor. Held in extreme disdain before being forgotten.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, slaterain said:

The music, that montage - it was HORRIBLE! It was like they tried to do an emotional wrap up a la Six Feet Under and failed miserably. The montage was choppy and seemed to be more of a bad dvd outtakes bonus. There was no flow, highlighted random characters that we didn't need to see again and blitzed through ones that I wish they had paused on. I have seen way better fan videos done with the basics of video editing. And I thought this must be the final episode until the stay tuned for scenes... and the music choice - now was the time to pull out Kansas or AC/DC or something powerful. Paradoxlost nailed it with the hallmark music comparison !

But I wasn't actually talking about the montage.  The score used to highlight the emotional beats (that were not there) and general epic nature (which also absent) of the final confrontation between Jack and Sam and Dean and Chuck was a travesty.  A travesty that belongs in a Hallmark movie.   A travesty that made the final montage look good by comparison.  And I agree that the montage was totally lackluster too although it made me sad about what happened to this show.

Edited November 13, 2020 by ParadoxLost

[ahrtee]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I don't think that Gack is ready for this responsibility at all, he is still basically a three year old who is still learning how to use his power responsibly, and still needs Sam, Dean, and Cas to help him figure out what is right and what is wrong. Are they going to show up and sometimes be like "no, no smiting! Bad Jack!" in the astral plane sometimes? I suppose not, but none of this fills me with confidence about his god abilities. 

IDK.  I think Gack may be perfect for the job:  after all, if he just intends to sit around and do nothing, just let everyone use their own free will to do whatever they want, then he can be a Universal Power Source to keep the lights on in heaven.  That's what the angels wanted him for in the first place, wasn't it?  Just power to keep thing running but no interference.   Of course, if he gets bored in a few millennia, who knows what'll happen.  

ETA:  Bottom line:  Jack as a super-duper lightbulb for eternity.  I like it.

Edited November 13, 2020 by ahrtee

[KayCordingly]

Just watched last night's episode of Supernatural.

**SIIIIIIGGGGGHGHHHHHH**

RE: the brothers acting so dense at not comprehending why having a reaper would be useful, to the point to where, after turning into the new Death, she mocked them for being slow.

Eat a bag of dicks.

RE: We have to wait for Sam to decipher the Enochian in God's death book because Michael, the Archangel, suddenly forgot how to read Enochian, the language of the angels. Because we need to force plot-twist.

Got to store. Purchase a second bag of dicks. Eat that as well.

RE: "Amara's living in harmony inside me". Yeah guys she's totally cool with being trapped outside of time and space again and not having any free will.

Go back to store. Purchase a 3rd bag of dicks. And a grill. And charcoal. Invite show writers over for bag-of-dicks-eating bbq.

Seriously, I don't think I can properly expressed how much I hate what they did to Amara's character.