S16.E05: Week 5

[Recyclorette]

3 hours ago, GracieK said:

Benoit stuck by her even after she treated him like dirt on Winter Games, pursued her, and they ended up together briefly - he's been great friends with her and supportive ever since even congratulating her and wishing her best of luck on her journey.  Apparently there were even segments filmed with the two of them for this season which ended up on the cutting room floor.  Anyway - Benoit has shown up for her repeatedly.  She has a right to decide that he's not "her person" but spare me the fake news narrative that no one has ever shown up for you... it's insulting to Benoit's gracious friendship throughout her usual histrionics.

Such a good point!  For all the talk of Clare being strong and independent, why is she so focused on being taken care of?  I also keep wondering how someone who has such devotion to her late father and a supposedly good relationship example in her parents can have had so many unhealthy and abusive relationships with men.  

[JudyObscure]

21 hours ago, Bluesky said:

Clare made it clear that none of them were worth getting to know so I have no problem with them expressing their relief over her replacement being pleasant and a better match. 

Right.  I have no problem with the men doing that either.  My problem is just with the show being a little petty in choosing to air those comments, but then I've explained that I was talking about the show and not the men, nor Clare, nor Tayshia,  three or four times now.  

[GracieK]

24 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

Right.  I have no problem with the men doing that either.  My problem is just with the show being a little petty in choosing to air those comments, but then I've explained that I was talking about the show and not the men, nor Clare, nor Tayshia,  three or four times now.  

I tend to agree.  It seemed unnecessarily cruel and I don't even like Clare or have many good things to say about her at this point.  But as a woman of 42 - so not light years away in age from her - it's disappointing that they would air anything really nasty pitting Tayshia and Clare against each other in a category that Clare can't exactly change or do anything about nor should she have to compete over.  It also just seems to support the idea that women don't have as much worth after a certain age and child bearing ability.  I mean these guys are certainly within their rights to want to date a younger and possibly more fertile woman - but the way they edited that was harsh.  Even my husband was like - wow that seemed below the belt. 

[GracieK]

1 hour ago, Recyclorette said:

Such a good point!  For all the talk of Clare being strong and independent, why is she so focused on being taken care of?  I also keep wondering how someone who has such devotion to her late father and a supposedly good relationship example in her parents can have had so many unhealthy and abusive relationships with men.  

Unfortunately, there are traumas and abuses that can happen to a woman (or a man) that go beyond anything their parents can be blamed for and sometimes lead to low self-esteem or self-destructive behaviors.   There are also mental health diagnoses and personality disorders that don't necessarily stem from any onset trauma.  

[archer1267]

FYI, if you have Hulu (and aren't already watching the show this way), you can FF. I'm unable to FF with On Demand. I largely skipped over the Clare and Dale sit-down.

Bringing in the four new guys was weird. I felt like the guys already there had been dicked around enough before this "twist," but I guess the show wanted to give Tayshia more choices. (Or maybe they thought there wasn't enough drama in seeing a group of 16 guys get along and have heart-to-heart conversations.) Seeing Spencer in the pool would have been a turn-off to me, though - there's being competitive, and then there's being an ass. I didn't blame Riley for setting him straight afterwards.

I wondered about Jason leaving and why he was so stuck on Clare. I thought, "Dude, the best way to get over someone is to meet other people." But I respected his reasoning about not being able to just switch off his feelings once they've been stirred up.

All in all, I loved finally getting to know more about these guys. It's a good group.

[Fable]

I can't really understand why Clare keeps saying that her love for Dale is because he "showed up" for her.  She had him in her cross hairs before he even "showed up" on set.  

[Kiss my mutt]

I don’t think Dale really showed up for her in any special way. The other guys would have done the same if she let them. She just decided pre-show, he was it and made him fit into her box. 

[Recyclorette]

1 hour ago, Fable said:

I can't really understand why Clare keeps saying that her love for Dale is because he "showed up" for her.  She had him in her cross hairs before he even "showed up" on set.  

How can you know, in two weeks' time, if someone will "show up" for you?  Dependability is proven over time and through serious challenges.  It's so immature and risky to assume Dale will be there in real life after two weeks in fantasyland.  No wonder Clare ends up bitter and alone.

[Arkay]

4 hours ago, Recyclorette said:

Such a good point!  For all the talk of Clare being strong and independent, why is she so focused on being taken care of?  I also keep wondering how someone who has such devotion to her late father and a supposedly good relationship example in her parents can have had so many unhealthy and abusive relationships with men.  

You know how it is with nature vs. nurture. People are born with a certain temperament, and they react to life experiences differently. Clare may have had a wonderful childhood in every way, but fell somehow into a bad pattern in her own life. Or based on what we've seen on tv, it's just that she interprets things in her own negative way. Just how siblings in the same family, with different personalities, experience and handle things so unlike one another, even if they've been raised in the same family situation. 

I do see the cognitive dissonance with Clare, though. In the same sentence she'll say that she's strong and doesn't need anyone, but then says she needs someone who won't let her down. 

[Wandering Snark]

5 hours ago, Kiss my mutt said:

The other guys would have done the same if she let them. She just decided pre-show, he was it and made him fit into her box. 

While the other guys waited for them to get back from "talking".

[mamadrama]

6 hours ago, Fable said:

I can't really understand why Clare keeps saying that her love for Dale is because he "showed up" for her.  She had him in her cross hairs before he even "showed up" on set.  

Not to mention the fact that at least several of the times that he "showed up" was probably because production was standing by and telling him his cues. 

[mamadrama]

4 hours ago, Arkay said:

 

I do see the cognitive dissonance with Clare, though. In the same sentence she'll say that she's strong and doesn't need anyone, but then says she needs someone who won't let her down. 

I don't disagree with the general idea, but the idea of saying she doesn't need someone vs someone who won't let her down doesn't feel like dissonance to me. I have never felt like I "needed" someone but have always felt like if I do have someone I need it to be someone who won't let me down. Nobody's perfect, but I'd rather be alone than with someone who's constantly disappointing me and dicking around. Been there and it sucked. 

[TomGirl]

On 11/11/2020 at 9:18 PM, nutty1 said:

Am I the only one who likes Jordan??

I think he’s adorable.

[Kiss my mutt]

4 minutes ago, TomGirl said:

I think he’s adorable.

Absolutely.  He’s a cutie. 

[tinkerbell]

Clare praises Dale for "showing up". Not that he had a choice, he was sequestered in the same resort.

Meanwhile, 16 guys were waiting for clare to "show up" to a group date,  a cocktail party,  a rose ceremony, or to talk to them.

[RealHousewife]

On 11/11/2020 at 10:24 AM, alexa said:

Normally I would agree, but Clare did not go into this process open minded or give any effort whatsoever.  She had one guy in mind, ditched the other guys repeatedly, asked them to express love for her from the get go even though she had no energy to give them at all.  I think Tayisha at least looks interested in the process and is trying to have fun chatting with them, etc...that is what should be happening, and most people would like that kind of person more, quite frankly.  I was never a big Tayisha fan, but I think she is doing a good job of being positive and fun.

All this. I thought Tayshia was very pretty but wouldn't say I was a big fan either. I'm really enjoying how open, upbeat and fun she is so far. 

[mamadrama]

I KNEW they could do better dates than burning old dresses and giving the men a quiz about female anatomy. It's like they didn't even try with Clare. 

I checked out the resort and it has 41 pools. Damn. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LuvMyShows]

On 11/12/2020 at 2:17 PM, archer1267 said:

Bringing in the four new guys was weird.

Yes it was.  If they were going to bring in more guys, which I actually think they should have, it should have been far more than 4, which isn't a very significant increase, especially considering how far it still falls short of the 31 from Clare's Night 1.

On 11/11/2020 at 12:15 AM, Arkay said:

Tayshia did seem to be attracted to d-bag Spencer

Sure, but she didn't really seem to be more attracted to him than the others.  Giving him the date rose, after showing us the scenes of him stirring up trouble with the guys, seemed producer-driven, to get the drah-ma they keep thinking we want.  If she didn't have any genuine faves, then she probably was willing to go along with it.  In fact, I question if the whole reason the 4 new guys were brought in, was specifically so they could get Spencer there, for their plot purposes.

On 11/11/2020 at 10:56 AM, peachmangosteen said:

This. He looked like he felt stuck in the moments where he wasn't pretending to be as happy as Clare. Maybe that's just his resting face and maybe he's not pretending but I just don't see him being as into her as she is him. 

Yeah, he made some comment about how she says "I love you" way more than him, and she seemed to confirm that she says it all the time.  That gets old, real quick.

On 11/11/2020 at 9:30 PM, Arkay said:

She's always near panic because other men haven't "shown up." Dale's gestures seem so minimal to me that I really wonder about her past (off-camera) relationships. 

Given what we know about how quickly Clare has fallen for guys, my guess is that these guys who didn't "show up", were situations where she decided waaaay too early on that she was in love with them, they didn't feel the same, they cut bait, and therefore she concluded that these men were sh*tty. 

[Wandering Snark]

5 hours ago, LuvMyShows said:

he made some comment about how she says "I love you" way more than him, and she seemed to confirm that she says it all the time.  That gets old, real quick.

Agreed. There's only so many times you want to be called honeybunch, sugar plum, pumpy-umpy-umpkin in a day before you want to take a flamethrower to the place...

Edited November 14, 2020 by Wandering Snark

[dizzyd]

I don’t know why I’m still talking about this because I’m so happy to be done with them but I did want to mention that Dale wasn’t the first guy that came to her assistance after the Yosef drama. There were several other guys that did but she just dismissed them and gave Dale all the credit. I was playing the “showed up” drinking game during the episode 😜 so blame my catatonic state or I would have brought this up sooner.

[ljenkins782]

On 11/14/2020 at 8:46 AM, dizzyd said:

I don’t know why I’m still talking about this because I’m so happy to be done with them but I did want to mention that Dale wasn’t the first guy that came to her assistance after the Yosef drama. There were several other guys that did but she just dismissed them and gave Dale all the credit. I was playing the “showed up” drinking game during the episode 😜 so blame my catatonic state or I would have brought this up sooner.

Yes, Dale was actually the 4th or 5th guy to "show up", he was just the only one she acknowledged. I wondered if anyone was playing the "showed up" drinking game, but it seems rather dangerous between Clare and Chris Harrison desperately trying to make it stick.

[Lamb18]

I like Tayshia and am glad she is the Bachelorette.  I wanted her to be the B after Colton's season. She was so warm and friendly with the men, showing interest and making the conversations about them. She has a lot of poise -- which Claire lacks -- and that comes from self-confidence. 

[Mu Shu]

5 hours ago, Lamb18 said:

I like Tayshia and am glad she is the Bachelorette.  I wanted her to be the B after Colton's season. She was so warm and friendly with the men, showing interest and making the conversations about them. She has a lot of poise -- which Claire lacks -- and that comes from self-confidence. 

Exactly. She’s comfortable in her own skin, where Clare was trying to claw her way out of hers. A lead needs the ability to lead. And it looks like Tayshia has some good quality Mesnicking in store for us!