S04.E09: Avalanche

[qtpye]

On 11/16/2020 at 7:09 PM, leighdear said:

Lord, could they have chosen an actor for Charles that looks MORE like a hunchback turtle?  He looks SO ridiculous, like a cartoon character.  I find him the absolute worst casting choice in the entire series. 

And they are making him out to be such a supreme tool in every single situation involving Diana, plus being so needy and desperate.  This has got to piss him off beyond belief IRL, even if it was all accurate.  

 

On 11/17/2020 at 5:27 PM, greekmom said:

Actually I get her point.  Her point is look at me, fall in love with me. I am younger and more beautiful with that cow you care about. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me and I understand her point.

Charles has checked out that marriage since before the wedding vows. I feel very sorry for Diana as she would have been happy if Charles threw her the occasional bone while boning Camilla in more of a discreet manor.  Charles was very open with his relationship with Camilla to the point he was rubbing it in Diana's face.  He could have made more of an effort and broke it off with Camilla.

 

On 11/17/2020 at 6:09 PM, tennisgurl said:

Don't you mean Billy Joelle? 

Charles has been consistently horrible in his marriage, but I was mostly on his side about Diana's performance at the ballet and that cringy as hell anniversary gift. Diana had to know that Charles would hate a big public showing like that, and that it would go from being Charles birthday to being The Diana Show and all anyone would talk about would be Diana. That really screamed of her wanting to bask in the attention of her adoring crowds, and while I get why she seeks the attention from others that she isn't getting in her marriage, that was very clearly All About Diana even if it was Charles birthday. And that video of her singing all alone in full costume with the whole orchestra for their anniversary present was so ridiculous and extra, this was clearly just another performance of The Diana Show where she had an excuse to live out one of her performer fantasies. Really, their gifts were so indicative of how ill suited they are to each other, and how little they know about each other even after years of marriage, they basically gave each other the gift that they themselves would want. Charles would love an old book full of history, and Diana would love a big display or love through a lavish musical number. The two of them still just don't understand each other, and apparently have gone past the point of really trying. Diana was still trying to at least make some token efforts, but Charles is clearly all done. 

Charles is just being so insufferable, its clear that Diana just cannot win with him no matter how much she tries to reach out, all he wants to do is whine and pine away after Camilla and be pissed off. He treats Diana like garbage then gets all offended when she is having affairs because he wont give her the time of day because he is busy with his affair, its just so hypocritical. Not only that, but he gets on his high horse about Camilla's husband cheating on her, while he is also cheating on HIS wife and Camilla is cheating on him as well. He cant even have a real honest talk with her anymore, he just wants to whine to Camilla or Anne about how much Diana sucks while taking no responsibility for his own faults in their relationship. What an absolute mess this is. Of course, if they had just let Charles marry Camilla in the first damn place none of this would even be an issue. 

 Diana singing in the car with the boys was really cute, a very nice little break in a rather depressing episode. 

 

On 11/18/2020 at 10:42 AM, Umbelina said:

I dunno, the show spent years showing us the hell Charles went though as a child, and then they gave us Wales last year, to just drum it in more how much his mother hated him, and his father thought him a wet useless ninny.

For him to turn into this not only makes perfect sense, but also, there is background to why he is this way.

They are skipping fast through history, hitting a few high points, skipping other important, monumental things

  Hide contents

like the wall coming down and Germany reunifying, and for a group of Royals that all all mostly German, that's a big skip!

So just giving us representational highs and lows of their relationship to this point fits right into the rest of the show.

 

On 11/18/2020 at 11:35 PM, Renee in CA said:

The thing is, plenty of men would have loved the dance because it would have made them more attractive because this gorgeous woman was dancing for him. But Charles was too jealous to understand that she was sharing per popularity with him and not against him.

The anniversary gift - wow they got Andrew Lloyd Webber’s permission to use a song from Phantom! I can imagine the original version was sung more badly than what we saw because it is not easy to sing Christine. 

I think Diana has unwittingly come to represent everything that Charles hates about his family. He looks at her as the woman that they literally forced down his throat.

He then has placed Camilla on a pedestal that she is everything he wants and can not have. Camilla almost straight out said that she loved Parker-Bowles but needs Charles to adore and desperately need her. I honestly think if Charles was not the Prince of Wales, she might of tired of his neediness and gone on to another man (probably not her husband) who was more exciting.

He not only does not like his wife but actively loathes her at this point. Add to that the insult that she has the beauty, charm, and connection with the public that he never possessed.

Of course, this is horrible for poor Diana. She really loves Charles (or what she thinks Charles is in her dreams) and this constant rejection is devastating to someone who already had huge self esteem issues.

Edited December 8, 2020 by qtpye

[Roseanna]

1 hour ago, qtpye said:

Of course, this is horrible for poor Diana. She really loves Charles (or what she thinks Charles is in her dreams) and this constant rejection is devastating to someone who already had huge self esteem issues.

I think that the plot is very unconvincing. Love can last only if there had had been good times as well as bad ones.

[Umbelina]

I wish we'd seen a bit more of the ski party and avalanche.  Taking the rest to the season 4 history thread, because it contains real life events about that.

 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Umbelina
wrong thread

[sistermagpie]

On 11/25/2020 at 12:55 AM, Anothermi said:

Very true over all. But in his defence, Charles' gift WAS about Diana. It was a first edition (valuable) of a book outlining HER Royal ancestry - which went back much farther in English history than his!  But, of course, she really wasn't into that kind of thing and if they'd gotten to know each other at all  he would have known that (get your equerry to write up crib notes on her interests, like your mum did for her children in Favourite)! 

What the show indicated (for what it is worth) was that Diana was more enthralled with her Phantom of the Opera Performance than in his reaction to it. They showed us several shots of her beaming while watching it as he side-eyed her. 

The whole thing just makes me sad because as individuals they each had redeeming qualities. Just not to each other. 

TBF, one could say that gift wasn't about her either--it was about people centuries earlier with the same name. And probably the thing he really married her for, in a way.

But you're right, it's a classic thing where the gifts could be nice if they loved each other and found each other's different interests cute. If he loved Diana that terrible video would be adorable.

I don't think that video could be completely self-centered on her part. With Uptown Girl she had a whole audience cheering her on, so even if Charles' hated it (not realizing how good it could have made him look), she could still shove all the people loving it in his face. But with the video, it was just her singing badly in private, taking away the power of her celebrity and public love. 

ETA: Forgot to say that for some reason I always remembered her doing that Phantom thing, though we didn't know exactly what she did iirc. It always seemed so goofy, but possibly in a nice way.

Edited December 9, 2020 by sistermagpie

[blackwing]

This episode made me feel even more for Diana.  Yes, she was young, but he chose her, and more importantly, he chose her to be the mother of a future King.  I felt incredibly sad for Diana when Anne said that the marriage was effectively over once Diana produced “the Spare”.

I thought the Queen and Philip were particularly unsympathetic to Diana considering they have known all along about Camilla.  The Queen even reminded Philip about his ballerinas.  Then she talked to Diana about turning a blind eye, which I suppose is what she did.  
 

I still don’t understand why it was ok for Charles to effectively have never given up his infidelity with Camilla but then sends investigators to report on Diana’s dalliances.  Was it to get ammunition for a divorce?

As for the gifts, personally I thought Diana’s performances were touching.  If he had at all loved her he would have seen it as her giving him a part of herself.  This beautiful and talented woman that the world adores, and she is all his.  Too bad he didn’t want her, when many in the world did.  She went to all the trouble of getting the dancers and actors and musicians arranged for these performances and he is just feeling shamed by them.

 

[qtpye]

The thing about the "Uptown Girl" performance is that it was done during a charity event known for celebrity "drop-ins" and, in fact, Diana and Charles had performed at it *together* the year before. So apparently it wasn't obscene and flashy when he did it, too, just when she got the full spotlight and 8 curtain calls. "The event, held annually to raise money for the Royal Opera and Royal Ballet, often featured funny skits and surprise celebrity appearances; indeed, the royal couple had appeared onstage at the previous year's event to perform in character as Romeo and Juliet, with Charles showcasing his singing skills with a rendition of the "Just One Cornetto" ice cream jingle, according to Tina Brown's The Diana Chronicles."

[Roseanna]

2 hours ago, blackwing said:

This episode made me feel even more for Diana.  Yes, she was young, but he chose her, and more importantly, he chose her to be the mother of a future King. 

He chose her *after* she had made the first moves and deliberately presented herself perfect for her future role. If she had been honest (f.ex. said that she is a city girl), he wouldn't have proposed to her.

[sistermagpie]

11 hours ago, Roseanna said:

He chose her *after* she had made the first moves and deliberately presented herself perfect for her future role. If she had been honest (f.ex. said that she is a city girl), he wouldn't have proposed to her.

But tbf, he already knew he felt pushed into the marriage, so it's not like he was counting on her being one way or another, exactly. Sure, he was misled in the way that she showed sympathy for him on that second meeting, which made him imagine that was the way they would interact all the time forever, but he already knew he didn't really want to marry her. It wasn't just that she liked the city. He was far less naive about what they were getting into than she was. She was also young enough that she didn't even really know what all she liked yet.

Edited December 9, 2020 by sistermagpie

[WatchrTina]

15 hours ago, blackwing said:

I still don’t understand why it was ok for Charles to effectively have never given up his infidelity with Camilla but then sends investigators to report on Diana’s dalliances.  Was it to get ammunition for a divorce?

I don't know if this law is still in effect in modern times, but back in olden times having sex with the Queen or the Princess of Wales was considered an act of treason, punishable by death.  This was seen as justified since such an affaire could result in a break in the royal bloodline -- a situation that would call into question the validity of line of succession.  Having an affaire with the King (or the Prince of Wales) on the other hand, provided a boost to a noblewoman's status (and possibly, the status of her husband assuming he tactfully looked the other way.)  A bastard child born to a mistress of the King might later be acknowledged as a royal bastard and given titles and lands in recognition of his/her royal bloodline.  Good marriages were likely to follow for an acknowledged bastard.  Even an unacknowledged bastard was probably in good standing in society since the King would typically choose a mistress who was a high-born, married noblewoman and a child born in wedlock to a married couple was, by definition, a legitimate child of that marriage (there being no such thing as paternity tests back then.)  So the double-standard that Charles seems to have embraced in this episode was historically well-established.  HE was allowed to cheat (particularly with a married woman.)  Diana was NOT.  Furthermore, if he divorced Diana, he would still be the Prince of Wales and heir to the throne.  And if he was able to divorce her for cause -- for HER adultery -- he might be able to escape the marriage and still have public opinion on his side. Given Diana's popularity, his wanting her to be seen as the cause of the divorce and not as a "victim" shows some political savvy on his part.  

 

12 hours ago, Roseanna said:

He chose her *after* she had made the first moves and deliberately presented herself perfect for her future role. If she had been honest (f.ex. said that she is a city girl), he wouldn't have proposed to her.

He might have.  Charles was running out of options and his unsuccessful pursuit of a wife was becoming slightly embarrassing.  If I'm recalling correctly, one of his previous girlfriends actually announced to the press that the rumors of an engagement were false and furthermore that IF he proposed, she would not accept.  That was a huge breach of protocol but she did it because she was just so sick of having to dodge reporters all the time.  That's a hell of a way to have a girlfriend break up with you.  So while I don't think Charles was "desperate," I do think that he was mindful of the shrinking pool of aristocratic "fair, chaste & fertile" candidates.  I also think that he presumed (incorrectly as it turned out) that ANYONE he married would willingly conform herself to his preferences, regardless of what her pre-marriage preferences (i.e., city over country) might have been.

[Roseanna]

8 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

but he already knew he didn't really want to marry her

Not at all. He wasn't allowed time to get to know her and make his decision but was persuaded by his father to propose (in the show, irl Philip wrote only to propose soon or end the courting so that her reputation wasn't ruined).

Letting himself be persuaded he showed a weakness of character but, sadly, his motive was to do his duty as he was raised to do and not become like his uncle David.  

As is often in life, his mistake was preceded by a long chain of happenings. Perhaps the most fateful was that he was advised in his youth lord Mountbatten who no doubt gave him what his parents haven't but whose values and opinions about sex and marriage were out-of-date. 

7 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

back in olden times having sex with the Queen or the Princess of Wales was considered an act of treason, punishable by death. 

That was a novelty invented by Henry VIII.  After he killed two of his queens (and Anne Boleyn was even crowned and anointed), his daughter killed the Queen of Scots. 

Other kings only put their adulterous queens and princesses in nunnery.

[sistermagpie]

59 minutes ago, Roseanna said:

Not at all. He wasn't allowed time to get to know her and make his decision but was persuaded by his father to propose (in the show, irl Philip wrote only to propose soon or end the courting so that her reputation wasn't ruined).

Letting himself be persuaded he showed a weakness of character but, sadly, his motive was to do his duty as he was raised to do and not become like his uncle David.  

As is often in life, his mistake was preceded by a long chain of happenings. Perhaps the most fateful was that he was advised in his youth lord Mountbatten who no doubt gave him what his parents haven't but whose values and opinions about sex and marriage were out-of-date.  

I thought that was what I was describing. He didn't yet know how much he wouldn't want to be married to her, but he was marrying her because he was told she was a great choice and it was his duty--neither of which involved his particularly wanting to be married to this young girl. Then he immediately ditched her for 6 weeks and kept in touch with Camilla etc. I don't know how things went down exactly IRL (though I believe he did say his dad pressured him into marrying to begin with) but on the show he actively avoided getting to know her much and signalled right away that he didn't really think of her the way we usually think about a future wife, it seems to me. 

Interesting to think of him doing his duty to not be Uncle David since he seems to have privately admired Uncle David and saw himself as having  a similar noble but misunderstood character--which would explain him proposing to Diana reluctantly while seeing himself as the victim who was being robbed of love.

[dubbel zout]

29 minutes ago, sistermagpie said:

Then he immediately ditched her for 6 weeks

To be fair, that trip had been long planned. It was unfortunate timing to occur so soon after the engagement.

[WatchrTina]

6 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

To be fair, that trip had been long planned. It was unfortunate timing to occur so soon after the engagement.

That's true but the show implies that he stayed in constant contact with Camilla during that trip while not bothering to communicate with his new  fiancee at all.  I got the impression that -- having proposed and having been accepted -- having announced to the world that a suitable bride had been identified -- Charles indulged in one last bout of poor-tragic-me, lamenting his upcoming separation from the woman he loved, and not giving much thought to the woman he'd just become engaged to.  I'd feel more sympathy for Charles (and I might forgive him his neglect of Diana) if it had been suggested that his time was fully occupied with all the royal duties implicit in an overseas tour.  But the show made a point of saying that Charles was regularly calling Camilla.  She told Diana as much, didn't she?  So that's the show depicting both Charles and Camilla as selfish and unfeeling toward Diana -- almost cruel.  Personally, I can't really wrap my brain around why Charles wanted Camilla and Diana to meet, nor why Camilla was willing to do so.  That whole situation was just weird.

[qtpye]

3 hours ago, Roseanna said:

Not at all. He wasn't allowed time to get to know her and make his decision but was persuaded by his father to propose (in the show, irl Philip wrote only to propose soon or end the courting so that her reputation wasn't ruined).

Letting himself be persuaded he showed a weakness of character but, sadly, his motive was to do his duty as he was raised to do and not become like his uncle David.  

As is often in life, his mistake was preceded by a long chain of happenings. Perhaps the most fateful was that he was advised in his youth lord Mountbatten who no doubt gave him what his parents haven't but whose values and opinions about sex and marriage were out-of-date.  

She might have started to like the country more if "going to the country" did not mean that he was going to be close to his mistress. The proximity to Camilla was one of the reasons he chose that particular estate.  Also, I like hikes in the country but I will never enjoy joining an army of men, women, and dogs chasing a poor fox throughout the fields. She held her own at Balmoral and knew how to do the country life

Anne said it best. He was obsessed with a woman who loved someone else and any woman who married him would have to make Camilla a part of their lives. Camilla might have broken it off if Parker-Bowles were more faithful, but he was not...so she continued with Charles.

[Razzberry]

 

On 12/9/2020 at 3:02 PM, WatchrTina said:

 Personally, I can't really wrap my brain around why Charles wanted Camilla and Diana to meet, nor why Camilla was willing to do so.  That whole situation was just weird.

This was probably due to Mounbatten's influence, filling Charles' head with his own ideas of marriage and what a young girl should be willing to tolerate.

It's interesting that the show is criticized for undoing the acceptance of Camilla when it seems they've tried to do the opposite.  She comes across as likable, level headed, and a better fit.  Even the actress' hair and facial features are much softer and arguably more pleasing than the real Camilla's, though I've heard it said she's adored by their set - everyone wants to sit by her because she's actually funny and interesting.  

This didn't really answer his question, but he seemed satisfied.

[qtpye]

11 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

 

This was probably due to Mounbatten's influence, filling Charles' head with his own ideas of marriage and what a young girl should be willing to tolerate.

It's interesting that the show is criticized for undoing the acceptance of Camilla when it seems they've tried to do the opposite.  She comes across as likable, level headed, and a better fit.  Even the actress' hair and facial features are much softer and arguably more pleasing than the real Camilla's, though I've heard it said she's adored by their set - everyone wants to sit by her because she's actually funny and interesting.  

This didn't really answer his question, but he seemed satisfied.

I have heard rumors that Camilla tones herself down for public events because her personality would totally outshine the prince.

I agree with everything you said about the actress. When I saw they cast such an attractive woman...I really thought they were trying to make Camilla look good.

[Bobcatkitten]

There is plenty of blame to go around in the marriage of Diana and Charles. One tiny thing I was annoyed at though was when the Queen asked Diana why she had broken her vows. Fair question. But why didn't she ask Charles the same thing? 

[Umbelina]

6 hours ago, Bobcatkitten said:

There is plenty of blame to go around in the marriage of Diana and Charles. One tiny thing I was annoyed at though was when the Queen asked Diana why she had broken her vows. Fair question. But why didn't she ask Charles the same thing? 

Additionally, why didn't Diana tell her?  

He won't answer my calls, he doesn't have sex with me, I rarely see him, and he's both in love with and having sex with and spending all of his time with Camilla?

I know it's The Queen and all, but by that time, Diana was at least familiar enough with her to respond.

---

I think they missed the boat in this episode with the Avalanche itself.  I would have helped to at least see the man who died before he died, etc.  I detailed in more in the tabloids thread here, since some of my reasons come from real life events that were not on the show, both with production and with the event itself.

[sistermagpie]

30 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Additionally, why didn't Diana tell her?  

He won't answer my calls, he doesn't have sex with me, I rarely see him, and he's both in love with and having sex with and spending all of his time with Camilla?

I know it's The Queen and all, but by that time, Diana was at least familiar enough with her to respond.

---

I think they missed the boat in this episode with the Avalanche itself.  I would have helped to at least see the man who died before he died, etc.  I detailed in more in the tabloids thread here, since some of my reasons come from real life events that were not on the show, both with production and with the event itself.

Would have been interesting, too, because it would give us a sense of how accurate Diana's description of herself was when she said how upset she was when she thought Charles might have been hurt. Or just allow some ambiguity for how she really felt at that moment, if you know what I mean.

[andromeda331]

Charles is such an asshole. The way he talked to Anne about Diana's gift was horrible. Sure, she should have realized its not what he would have liked. But it wasn't worth the way he talked about it. Diana really was trying and he really didn't care. She explained that performing was how she expressed herself. I liked Anne being honest to him not that he cared for that either. What Anne said made me wonder what Camilla reallly thinks about all of this. Her marriage, her relationship with Charles. The show really hasn't told us. When Camilla says she loves Charles I'm really not sure I believe her. Her points about how Charles needs her and is devoted to her was interesting. Was that what she wish Andrew would be like? I don't know. It possilbe Anne's right about her marriage but Charles doesn't want to hear it. Just like he didn't want to hear when he invited her up to Scotland earlier this season and she couldn't because of her husband and kids. Charles just didn't see why because she was able to other times. As if her kids couldn't possibly need her. He really just shuts out anything he doesn't want hear.

I did like that the avalache made him want to end the marriage and be with Camilla. Okay, fine I can see how that would happen. But then he says nothing when he has the chance. Yeah, Diana said something really great but he could have said something but didn't. That's the infuriating thing about Charles he blames everyone else for his own problems without taking any responsibility himself. Diana tries to commit to their marriage, he doesn't. He's waiting it out so that she'll cheat and he'll have revenge or something to use to get a divorce. 

I could almost see why the avalache would make Diana see things differently. She went into the marriage believing she was in love. Except we've never any reason for her to have that. Except for the one moment in Australia we haven't seen Charles ever be nice since they got married. He treats her like crap all the time. He cheats on her all the time. He makes it clear he has no interested in her or their marriage. Its makes no sense that she would think the marriage could be saved. 

I didn't like Anne, Elizabeth and Philip focusing on Diana's cheating instead of Charles. Someone did post they wished Diana would explain being treated like crap by Charles who never sleeps with her or spends any time with instead of always off with Camilla made her lonely and look for love or affection from someone else. Its not as if they don't know. Anne was cheating on her husband and even begged her mother not to send her boyfriend away. Charles is getting all kinds of help with his affair.

 I also liked those who remarked that Charles and Diana gave each other gifts they would like to receive. That's very correct. 

[Milburn Stone]

On 12/8/2020 at 11:18 PM, qtpye said:

The thing about the "Uptown Girl" performance is that it was done during a charity event known for celebrity "drop-ins" and, in fact, Diana and Charles had performed at it *together* the year before. So apparently it wasn't obscene and flashy when he did it, too, just when she got the full spotlight and 8 curtain calls.

It's important to remember (and I have to keep reminding myself), the show's depiction of Charles' reaction is not necessarily what actually happened.

We'll never know what went down in the limo ride home, but there is probably video of Diana's moment in the charity show. Has anyone here seen it? And if you have, does it show Charles' reaction? And if it does, does he appear as much a "stick in the mud" as this episode made him out to be? I have my doubts. Charles is not stupid and I'd think just for the sake of keeping up appearances he would understand the value of pretending to be delighted and proud.

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Milburn Stone

[AZChristian]

10 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

We'll never know what went down in the limo ride home, but there is probably video of Diana's moment in the charity show. 

Not that anyone has released.  There weren't camera phones 35 years ago(!) when she danced, and no other recordings seem to be in existence.

If there are copies, they are likely filed away with any remaining copies of that dreadful "documentary" of a common day in the life of the royal family which was the basis of an episode in (I believe) season 3.  

[Milburn Stone]

19 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Not that anyone has released.  There weren't camera phones 35 years ago(!) when she danced, and no other recordings seem to be in existence.

If there are copies, they are likely filed away with any remaining copies of that dreadful "documentary" of a common day in the life of the royal family which was the basis of an episode in (I believe) season 3.  

Thanks, AZ. Well, in the absence of any recorded evidence that would tell us, I'm going to go with my gut feeling that RL Charles, unlike Show Charles, had the sense to be gracious in public, knowing many eyes would be upon him, whatever he felt in private.

[Umbelina]

7 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Thanks, AZ. Well, in the absence of any recorded evidence that would tell us, I'm going to go with my gut feeling that RL Charles, unlike Show Charles, had the sense to be gracious in public, knowing many eyes would be upon him, whatever he felt in private.

I must be misremembering.  I thought they did show Charles being gracious, smiling and clapping, forcing himself too, yes, but not that people far away from him would have noticed, since distance and they were watching the stage.  It wasn't until they were alone that he showed his real feelings.  ????

[Milburn Stone]

3 hours ago, Umbelina said:

I must be misremembering.  I thought they did show Charles being gracious, smiling and clapping, forcing himself too, yes, but not that people far away from him would have noticed, since distance and they were watching the stage.  It wasn't until they were alone that he showed his real feelings.  ????

I don't think you're misremembering but we're interpreting what we saw differently. A whole theater-ful of people were on their feet applauding madly, ecstatically, while Charles made a point of remaining on his ass, putting his hands together in such a way that God forbid they might actually make a sound, and smiling wanly.

[AZChristian]

12 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I don't think you're misremembering but we're interpreting what we saw differently. A whole theater-ful of people were on their feet applauding madly, ecstatically, while Charles made a point of remaining on his ass, putting his hands together in such a way that God forbid they might actually make a sound, and smiling wanly.

Charles gave an enthusiastic standing ovation to the male opera singer dressed as a prisoner during an aria before Diana came on.  That was his kind of music.

As soon as "Uptown Girl" started playing, he was looking around like he was wondering why Diana was taking so long in the loo.  Maybe he stood up and applauded during one of her eight curtain calls, but that was not his initial reaction.

[Roseanna]

On 12/20/2020 at 10:41 AM, andromeda331 said:

I could almost see why the avalache would make Diana see things differently. She went into the marriage believing she was in love. Except we've never any reason for her to have that. Except for the one moment in Australia we haven't seen Charles ever be nice since they got married. He treats her like crap all the time. He cheats on her all the time. He makes it clear he has no interested in her or their marriage. Its makes no sense that she would think the marriage could be saved.

I have learned that they had more good times irl which makes believable why Diana still loved Charles

Spoiler

and later wanted to revenged on him.

But the show makes Diana emotionally stupid or dependent on her own fantasy. She just can't admit the fact that love can't be forced.      

[LeDucDiableBleu]

The music (score?) in this episode was so dramatic, intense and haunting, it seriously reminded me of a Christopher Nolan film. I felt like I was watching Tenet. The music in the scene where she sneaks in James Hewitt was my favorite. The quality of production for this show is amazing.

[BrownBear2012]

I haven't completed this last season yet but I have to say, this family is one of the most dysfunctional families ever. From the Queen's coldness and inability to show affection to her children to the sniping of the "coven" of the Queen, Princess Anne (a nasty woman), Princess Margaret and the Queen Mother. What a loathsome lot. And the men are even worse. Prince Philip is just a snobby guy with so much venom filled hate of the working class and the everyday citizens of the Great Britain that it can hardly be contained. Prince Charles had a lonely childhood and his father's insistence that he attend that dreadful boarding school where he was bullied and harassed made me feel sympathy for him...he was sensitive and lacked any kind of parental show of emotion or physical affection. Yet, he became just like his father...a cheater and jealous of his wife. The pathology in this family is toxic.

[Eri]

On 11/17/2020 at 9:25 AM, Spartan Girl said:

“I’m really starting to despise you!”

”Well, what took you so long because the rest of us have been there for quite some time!” An unintended self-own, Charles?

I seriously laughed out loud for a good few mins at that line and I hadn't even watched the rest of the episode (even rewound that scene a few times). Boy the bucket never empties from his pity well does it? Yes Charles, you are quite loathable 🙂

Edited January 28, 2021 by Eri

[Camera One]

I'm not a fan of how they've presented this marriage so simplistically, with Charles never feeling a thing towards Diana, but they've been successful at making them as captivating as they were in real life.  I think the actors have a lot to do with it.  They actually have chemistry so I wish that they could have been happy together.  I don't think I've ever been a proponent of adultery, but in this case, I think they both should have pursued their own happiness with other people.  I actually don't come out of this disliking either Charles or Diana, or even Camilla, though it's pretty clear what the show is going for.   I find it pretty funny that Elizabeth's advice is telling people to turn a blind eye.  Turning a blind eye, avoiding the issue, pretending everything is okay... these are all very human ways of dealing with things, even though we know it usually doesn't work.

[Umbelina]

On 2/11/2021 at 9:40 PM, Camera One said:

I'm not a fan of how they've presented this marriage so simplistically, with Charles never feeling a thing towards Diana, but they've been successful at making them as captivating as they were in real life.  I think the actors have a lot to do with it.  They actually have chemistry so I wish that they could have been happy together.  I don't think I've ever been a proponent of adultery, but in this case, I think they both should have pursued their own happiness with other people.  I actually don't come out of this disliking either Charles or Diana, or even Camilla, though it's pretty clear what the show is going for.   I find it pretty funny that Elizabeth's advice is telling people to turn a blind eye.  Turning a blind eye, avoiding the issue, pretending everything is okay... these are all very human ways of dealing with things, even though we know it usually doesn't work.

Diana wanted a family, a happy family, that was her 'desire.'  I think her infidelities were out of a young girl's need for love, for revenge, for possibly even trying to show her heartless husband what he was missing and perhaps to win him back.  She was in despair, sex and closeness and any chance of winning Charles back were the most likely goals.

[Bunnyette]

On 12/15/2020 at 3:19 PM, Umbelina said:

Additionally, why didn't Diana tell her?  

He won't answer my calls, he doesn't have sex with me, I rarely see him, and he's both in love with and having sex with and spending all of his time with Camilla?

I know it's The Queen and all, but by that time, Diana was at least familiar enough with her to respond.

---

I think they missed the boat in this episode with the Avalanche itself.  I would have helped to at least see the man who died before he died, etc.  I detailed in more in the tabloids thread here, since some of my reasons come from real life events that were not on the show, both with production and with the event itself.

And his widow said Diana was a huge help & comfort to her but the show doesn’t show that

https://www.elle.com/culture/movies-tv/a34744703/the-crown-major-hugh-lindsay-prince-charles/

 

 

[AnnieBananie]

One tiny detail I noticed - particularly when HMTQ went to see Anne for the scuttlebutt on Charles and Diana's marriage - is that the children of the Queen greet her familiarly first and then offer the bow or curtsy next.

(I saw this in the previous episode as well when Andrew went to see his mother as she was prepping for the Commonwealth conference and he kissed her on the cheek and then bowed.)

She might be your mother, but she's still the Queen. 

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, AnnieBananie said:

She might be your mother, but she's still the Queen. 

Can't you just see it . . . Andrew kicks Edward, and HRH says, "Andrew, you must not do that again, or you will get a spanking."  Andrew kicks him again.  HRH goes to that little buzzer on her desk and asks the footman to fetch Nanny, who is then told to spank Andrew.

[Lonesome Rhodes]

It was entirely fitting that Diana was made to throw herself on the mercy of The Crown and her spawn and Charles was exempted from owning up to the first thing in that star chamber.  Philp was so right to tell him to STFU.  The Prince is such a jerk that he does not understand a win.  

Sure, he had hopes of displaying a pair, but when he didn't have the guts to speak truth, the best he could hope for was no criticism from his parents, which he got.  

I really enjoyed Anne's Squeezebox  (The Who) reference as she was splainin' things to Mummy.  She seemed to be enjoying it, too.