S04.E09: Avalanche

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Charles is caught in a deadly avalanche, prompting both him and Diana to reevaluate their commitment to their troubled marriage.

Dropping on Sunday, November 15, 2020.

[peridot]

I'm surprised that Diana thought that the Uptown Girl performance would be a good idea.  She's been married to Charles several years by this point, and she had to suspect that the dance wouldn't go down well.

I loved when the queen made the crack about ballerinas to Philip.  He was no saint during their younger years, either.

The "private" viewing of the Phantom of the Opera performance was extremely cringeworthy.

[Lamima]

Charles is a cad. And this show makes Diana come off badly. Like an immature ditz and major adulterer. Not too pleased with that. 

[Lamima]

I don't think she was a revolving door adulterer. Maybe just that Hewitt guy. 

[vibeology]

Just now, Lamima said:

I don't think she was a revolving door adulterer. Maybe just that Hewitt guy. 

There was a bodyguard before Hewitt and a few men after but by the time those men happened, as Anne mentioned, the marriage was effectively over.

1 hour ago, Lamima said:

Charles is a cad. And this show makes Diana come off badly. Like an immature ditz and major adulterer. Not too pleased with that. 

But that's who they were. Charles never really gave the marriage a chance. Even when he wasn't with Camilla, he was obsessed with her. Her wore her cufflinks on his honeymoon. And Diana, so lonely and mentally unwell and unsupported, did have multiple affairs. She needed positive support from somewhere and found it in two places; adulation from the general public and from men where there was an unequal relationship and she could finally have power. There's a reason she was with her bodyguard and riding instructor. After one relationship where she was the younger less experienced party, she was looking for control.

[Lamima]

Hmmm....but the show portrayed her more as a W word that rhymes with bore. Like a flakey, immature W. But she was elegant and classy and the people loved her. She made the royals seem more real and relatable than the rest of those stuffy drips. But maybe she was a good actress. She had to be though. It was her duty....to be so perfect in the public eye. I dont envy her life at all. 

Edited November 16, 2020 by Lamima

[formerlyfreedom]

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[swanpride]

I think the show was pretty clear that her adultery was a reaction to the way Charles acted. Which is fair enough. I mean, he basically left her alone all the time.

[Brn2bwild]

This depiction of Charles really makes him seem like a terrible father to William and Harry.  During the pool scene (which I believe was in this episode), he barely seemed to enjoy their amusement.  At William's match he looked bored and uneasy, and he barely showed any affection when they said goodbye to him at school.  I realize Charles was far from the ideal father, and did not give the physical affection Diana gave, but he wasn't completely stone with them.  It seems like the purpose of this depiction is to suggest that being part of the Royal family leeches all humanity from you until you turn into a robot capable of feeling only your own pain.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Brn2bwild

[Roseanna]

13 hours ago, Brn2bwild said:

This depiction of Charles really makes him seem like a terrible father to William and Harry.  During the pool scene (which I believe was in this episode), he barely seemed to enjoy their amusement.  At William's match he looked bored and uneasy, and he barely showed any affection when they said goodbye to him at school.  I realize Charles was far from the ideal father, and did not give the physical affection Diana gave, but he wasn't completely stone with them.  It seems like the purpose of this depiction is to suggest that being part of the Royal family leeches all humanity from you until you turn into a robot capable of feeling only your own pain.

I have understood that irl Charles didn't show physical affection towards his sons in public (because he was raised to think it was "non-royal" and therefore felt it was an act to the photographers), but he did so in private. 

We were shown in Australia he enjoyed being with baby William.

Edited November 16, 2020 by Roseanna
adding a letter

[vibeology]

8 hours ago, Lamima said:

Hmmm....but the show portrayed her more as a W word that rhymes with bore. Like a flakey, immature W. But she was elegant and classy and the people loved her. She made the royals seem more real and relatable than the rest of those stuffy drips. But maybe she was a good actress. She had to be though. It was her duty....to be so perfect in the public eye. I dont envy her life at all. 

She was all of those things too. That's rather the point. Diana was many things and that complexity is what makes her fascinating to this day. And I will say, I don't entirely believe the "revolving door" comment that was passed along from Margaret to Anne to Elizabeth. Margaret is overdramatic and Anne was jealous. I can absolutely believe that a few men where there were long-term affairs would be conflated with "she'll sleep with anyone." And the show made it clear that her affairs were in response to Charles cheating on her and ignoring her. She doesn't get to be around friends, she doesn't have her husband around, the rest of the family does their best to stay away from her. She's super lonely and it's hard to look at that and not understand why she went outside of her marriage for companionship.

[Minivanessa]

5 hours ago, vibeology said:

She was all of those things too. That's rather the point. Diana was many things and that complexity is what makes her fascinating to this day. And I will say, I don't entirely believe the "revolving door" comment that was passed along from Margaret to Anne to Elizabeth. Margaret is overdramatic and Anne was jealous. I can absolutely believe that a few men where there were long-term affairs would be conflated with "she'll sleep with anyone." And the show made it clear that her affairs were in response to Charles cheating on her and ignoring her. She doesn't get to be around friends, she doesn't have her husband around, the rest of the family does their best to stay away from her. She's super lonely and it's hard to look at that and not understand why she went outside of her marriage for companionship.

I don't believe that "revolving door" thing, either, and also put it down to bad feelings on the part of Margaret and Anne. 

[Roseanna]

On 11/16/2020 at 7:20 AM, vibeology said:

Margaret is overdramatic and Anne was jealous.

Yes, but it was made clear that they told what was gossiped.

And Anne summed up Charles and Diana's marriage quite well: she fell in love with him but he loved someone else who loved someone else and all were unhappy; the age gap, different characters, hobbies and friends. And finally the best part: there comes in every marriage a moment when one stops trying and realizes it as a mistake and then only lets herself be driven along the river.

In this version Charles had given up trying, and Diana's final attempt is in vain. That's not so unusual among ordinary people, either.

I can't believe that Charles would irl have believed that at that time he would be allowed to divorce or at least marry Camilla.  

On 11/15/2020 at 8:47 PM, peridot said:

I'm surprised that Diana thought that the Uptown Girl performance would be a good idea.  She's been married to Charles several years by this point, and she had to suspect that the dance wouldn't go down well.

Well, in Australia Diana said to Charles that when one of them longs for something, he or she should give it to the other.  But it's a general mistake to believe that people want the same things. 

Cf. Megan gave Don a surprise birthday party and sang a sexy song in Mad men.

[ruby24]

12 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I have understood that irl Charles didn't show physical affection towards his sons in public (because he was raised to think it was "non-royal" and therefore felt it was an act to the photographers), but he did so in private. 

We were shown in Australia he enjoyed being with baby William.

I also was under the impression that Charles was actually a pretty good father. Doesn't he have a pretty close relationship with his sons? Actually, the show last season implied that Charles longed for that kind of bond when he was the house of that couple with their son, and I believe Charles was the first royal father to be in the room when his child was born, wasn't he?

He must have insisted on that, and I'm sure Diana wanted it too. And Diana has said before that they were closest when she was pregnant with Harry, so honestly, I do kind of the get the impression that having their kids was something that may have temporarily bonded them at the time it was happening and I don't think the show conveyed that much at all.

Edited November 16, 2020 by ruby24

[Lillith]

I'm trying to wrap my head around Phillip have a single clue about who Billy Joel is. 

[Brn2bwild]

32 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

I also was under the impression that Charles was actually a pretty good father. Doesn't he have a pretty close relationship with his sons? Actually, the show last season implied that Charles longed for that kind of bond when he was the house of that couple with their son, and I believe Charles was the first royal father to be in the room when his child was born, wasn't he?

He must have insisted on that, and I'm sure Diana wanted it too. And Diana has said before that they were closest when she was pregnant with Harry, so honestly, I do kind of the get the impression that having their kids was something that may have temporarily bonded them at the time it was happening and I don't think the show conveyed that much at all.

That may have been true in real life, but in the world of the show, Charles comes across as if he couldn't care less about William and Harry.  The scene with William on the blanket, it was as if Charles had just discovered for the first time that William was his son and not just "the baby." 

[AZChristian]

38 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

. . . I believe Charles was the first royal father to be in the room when his child was born, wasn't he?

According to ET Online, "To Philip's credit, however, he later became the first royal to actually be in the room while his wife gave birth (at her request) when she gave birth to Edward in 1964."

[leighdear]

Lord, could they have chosen an actor for Charles that looks MORE like a hunchback turtle?  He looks SO ridiculous, like a cartoon character.  I find him the absolute worst casting choice in the entire series. 

And they are making him out to be such a supreme tool in every single situation involving Diana, plus being so needy and desperate.  This has got to piss him off beyond belief IRL, even if it was all accurate.  

[AZChristian]

1 minute ago, leighdear said:

Lord, could they have chosen an actor for Charles that looks MORE like a hunchback turtle?  He looks SO ridiculous, like a cartoon character.  I find him the absolute worst casting choice in the entire series.   

Just out of curiosity, I googled Prince Charles and clicked on the "videos" option to see him walking.  Unless he was looking down while going down steps, I didn't see that huge "hunchback" posture that they're showing on "The Crown."  It gets to the point where it's distracting from whatever else is happening in the scene.

[Minivanessa]

39 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Just out of curiosity, I googled Prince Charles and clicked on the "videos" option to see him walking.  Unless he was looking down while going down steps, I didn't see that huge "hunchback" posture that they're showing on "The Crown."  It gets to the point where it's distracting from whatever else is happening in the scene.

THANK YOU for checking this out. I didn't remember seeing him IRL pictures or videos with that awful hunched posture either, and by the end of this season it was also distracting as hell to me. 

[Umbelina]

2 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

THANK YOU for checking this out. I didn't remember seeing him IRL pictures or videos with that awful hunched posture either, and by the end of this season it was also distracting as hell to me. 

I'll have to look for it when I'm watching again.  From recall, it seemed mostly when he was around his mother, or sulking about Diana.  ???

[Ellaria]

7 hours ago, Jeeves said:

I don't believe that "revolving door" thing, either, and also put it down to bad feelings on the part of Margaret and Anne. 

I don’t believe it either. Its an exaggeration coming from women that were resentful of her.

2 hours ago, Lillith said:

I'm trying to wrap my head around Phillip have a single clue about who Billy Joel is. 

THAT was the best moment in that entertaining breakfast scene. First, Phillip’s crack about why the Queen never danced like that for him. (Meanwhile, I’m imagining Olivia Coleman in her frumpy Queen garb jumping around on stage.) Then she shoots back with the “ballerina” comment. Never a dull moment with Phillip.

Charles was a complete horror in this episode. Still, the fact that Diana thought that performing on stage would be a great birthday gift for the self-absorbed man that she was married to tells us how little understanding these two had of each other. Neither of them ever developed any insight into what the other wanted or needed. They just kept running down the same destructive path.

This season is not doing Charles any favors.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Ellaria Sand

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, Ellaria Sand said:

THAT was the best moment in that entertaining breakfast scene. First, Phillip’s crack about why the Queen never danced like that for him. (Meanwhile, I’m imagining Olivia Coleman in her frumpy Queen garb jumping around on stage.) Then she shoots back with the “ballerina” comment. Never a dull moment with Phillip.

I loved all of that!  That back and forth was brilliant.

I will admit though that I caught myself momentarily hoping Charles had died in the avalanche, after all, the kids had already been born.  Now THAT would have been an interesting twist.

[LilWharveyGal]

On 11/15/2020 at 6:47 PM, peridot said:

The "private" viewing of the Phantom of the Opera performance was extremely cringeworthy.

And how! Very extra, as the kids say.

[stcroix]

So if Diana loved Charles and Charles loved Camilla, who did Camilla love? I thought it was Charles! (and I'm of their age almost and should know this!)

[Guest]

49 minutes ago, stcroix said:

So if Diana loved Charles and Charles loved Camilla, who did Camilla love? I thought it was Charles! (and I'm of their age almost and should know this!)

Her husband. Most of the focus is on Camilla being unsuitable but she also was in love with Andrew Parker-Bowles and chose to marry him long before Charles was ready to get married. 

[swanpride]

And her children. I guess they could have somehow gotten around the marriage thing, but I don't see anyone being okay with her bringing her then still underage children into the marriage with Charles. This naturally became less of an issue once they were grown up anyway.

[Roseanna]

On 11/17/2020 at 7:50 AM, Dani said:

Her husband. Most of the focus is on Camilla being unsuitable but she also was in love with Andrew Parker-Bowles and chose to marry him long before Charles was ready to get married. 

Yes, but because her husband constantly cheated on her (as he had done during their dating), it's presumed that somewhere along the way she began to love Charles: he needed her and adored her for that and she felt good to be needed and adored by him. Plus sex, common hobbies and sense of humor.

The formal marriage according to the upper class style evidently suited to both Camilla and Andrew and it's to their great credit that they never quarreled before children like Charles and Diana did.     

Edited November 18, 2020 by Roseanna
correctling a letter

[poeticlicensed]

Diana's "gifts" to Charles for his birthday and their anniversary were all about Diana. What was she thinking? Charles is probably the most repressed person on earth, with a strict idea of what is proper and what is not. Did she really think dancing on a stage to a Billy Joel tune is what Charles wanted for his b-day? He strikes me as the kind of guy who would have liked a book or watch or good bottle of congac. And the Phantom song gave me major eyerolls. 

[Spartan Girl]

“I’m really starting to despise you!”

”Well, what took you so long because the rest of us have been there for quite some time!” An unintended self-own, Charles?

Seriously it’s really hard not to see Charles as The Asshole here. What really made mad is how he blamed Diana for his own spinelessness, chickening out when Elizabeth and Philip did their “intervention”. He could have just told Diana, “The avalanche made me see things differently too. This isn’t working out for either of us and I truly feel bad for hurting you. But for everyone’s sake, especially our sons, we should end it.” But nope. He just wusses out and goes crying to Camilla plotting to act when Diana inevitably slipped up. Which made me think he was deliberately icing her out at the end on purpose because he knew that she’d go right back to the boyfriend again.

Honestly, I don’t think any less of Diana for her “revolving door”. Charles spent their whole marriage in love with Camilla. If he could cheat so could she. And I’m pissed that her cheating got the lecture from Elizabeth and Philip when they knew about Camilla. But of course, it’s different for him because he’s the prince and a man as long as he’s discreet. Whatever...

Yeah, her gifts to Charles were misfires, but I think she was sincere that she wanted to try again after the avalanche.

Anne was spot-on in her summary of the marriage, as well as her smack down of Charles. I love how when they informed that the Queen wanted to see them after their friend’s funeral — poor widow Sarah — they both immediately stared at Anne like they knew she spilled the tea. Haha.

Philip and Elizabeth’s ballerina and Billy Joel breakfast conversation was the bright moment of the episode, along with Diana and the boys singing in the car.

[swanpride]

The gifts were still self-indulgent. They were about HER having a moment on stage, not about giving Charles something he would enjoy. Not that Charles gift was in any way better. The only positive thing I have to say about Diana's gift is that they required a little bit more effort than just picking up a book, but sadly all the effort mostly went into fulfilling one of her own fantasies. Basically if the gifts had been switched (if Diana had gifted Charles a rare book about history or plants or whatever and he had gifted her a stage appearance or an evening together at a musical or something like this) they would be both happy.

[Lillith]

37 minutes ago, swanpride said:

The gifts were still self-indulgent. They were about HER having a moment on stage, not about giving Charles something he would enjoy. Not that Charles gift was in any way better. The only positive thing I have to say about Diana's gift is that they required a little bit more effort than just picking up a book, but sadly all the effort mostly went into fulfilling one of her own fantasies. Basically if the gifts had been switched (if Diana had gifted Charles a rare book about history or plants or whatever and he had gifted her a stage appearance or an evening together at a musical or something like this) they would be both happy.

Excellent point and it was also proof that not only did they not understand one another, they really didn't make an effort to. 

I overall like the portrayal of Diana, it shows her suffering, but also shows she could be difficult and a bit manipulative when she wanted to. Also I can't blame her for gettin' some once her marriage to Charles broke down. She was a 19 year old virgin, she got knocked up in about 5 minutes with William and I can't (nor do I care to) imagine Charles was a dynamo in the sack. So she did her duty with the heir and the spare, he's in love with someone else, so why not? 

This season has rekindled my dislike for Charles but tempered my dislike for Camilla a little bit. 

[monakane]

Quote

I have understood that irl Charles didn't show physical affection towards his sons in public (because he was raised to think it was "non-royal" and therefore felt it was an act to the photographers), but he did so in private. 

We were shown in Australia he enjoyed being with baby William

I always got the feeling that Diana and Charles were pretty much on the same page regarding their sons.  They did not send them to that godawful school that Charles attended.  I've seen pictures of the boys with their father, and they seem genuinely fond of him.  I don't think Charles wanted them to grow up with the same loneliness that he did.

[Peace 47]

I didn’t think that Philip and Elizabeth came off very well when they thought that Charles might have died in the avalanche.  I mean, I know they are not emotionally demonstrative people as a bedrock principal, but their kid might have died.  All I got from them was vague concern and perhaps a thought bubble above Philip’s head that perhaps he recognized how “not-upset” he actually was  (contrast to Thatcher’s reaction to a missing kid, although we all know Charles is no one’s favorite).

I just did a Picard facepalm when Diana spoke up and said she wanted to save the marriage.  I get why she did it, but it was the worst possible choice she could have made because it just prolonged her agony.  There was no way for Charles and Diana to reach any kind of “understanding” (as QEII suggested) because they both needed their marriage to be an actual marriage.  They were both too needy and broken and desperately wanted the all-in love and support of an actual spouse, not a transactional counterparty.

3 hours ago, Lillith said:

This season has rekindled my dislike for Charles but tempered my dislike for Camilla a little bit. 

I agree on Charles.  This season has really reminded me of the age and power differential between them, and I know people have good points about them both being difficult and damaged, but at the end of the day, Charles, emotionally damaged/ neglected (abused?) by his family, turned right around and heaped the same on his fragile wife.  And he, as portrayed on this show, has behaved monstrously towards her.

Edited November 17, 2020 by Peace 47

[WatchrTina]

On 11/16/2020 at 7:20 AM, vibeology said:

I will say, I don't entirely believe the "revolving door" comment that was passed along from Margaret to Anne to Elizabeth.

Did anyone else cringe when Anne used the language "In and out and in and out" to describe to her MOTHER the logistics of Diana's relationships with various men?  That was a bit on the nose if you ask me.

 

[Helena Dax]

Ah, finally, a bit of Queen (the band)! And if I'm not wrong, the dancer who danced Uptown Girl with Diana was one of Freddie Mercury's friends, as well, and he appears in the Living on my Own video.

Philip liked 80s pop and we never knew!

The presents were terrible and I agree that it shows how mismatched they were. I think getting a video like that as a present is one of my biggest fears. 

 

Edited November 18, 2020 by Helena Dax
Grammar

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Did anyone else cringe when Anne used the language "In and out and in and out" to describe to her MOTHER the logistics of Diana's relationships with various men?  That was a bit on the nose if you ask me.

Yeah, that was a bit much. But Peter Morgan is not subtle.

[greekmom]

On 11/15/2020 at 9:47 PM, peridot said:

I'm surprised that Diana thought that the Uptown Girl performance would be a good idea.  She's been married to Charles several years by this point, and she had to suspect that the dance wouldn't go down well.

I loved when the queen made the crack about ballerinas to Philip.  He was no saint during their younger years, either.

The "private" viewing of the Phantom of the Opera performance was extremely cringeworthy.

Actually I get her point.  Her point is look at me, fall in love with me. I am younger and more beautiful with that cow you care about. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me and I understand her point.

7 hours ago, swanpride said:

The gifts were still self-indulgent. They were about HER having a moment on stage, not about giving Charles something he would enjoy. Not that Charles gift was in any way better. The only positive thing I have to say about Diana's gift is that they required a little bit more effort than just picking up a book, but sadly all the effort mostly went into fulfilling one of her own fantasies. Basically if the gifts had been switched (if Diana had gifted Charles a rare book about history or plants or whatever and he had gifted her a stage appearance or an evening together at a musical or something like this) they would be both happy.

Charles has checked out that marriage since before the wedding vows. I feel very sorry for Diana as she would have been happy if Charles threw her the occasional bone while boning Camilla in more of a discreet manor.  Charles was very open with his relationship with Camilla to the point he was rubbing it in Diana's face.  He could have made more of an effort and broke it off with Camilla.

[tennisgurl]

23 hours ago, Lillith said:

I'm trying to wrap my head around Phillip have a single clue about who Billy Joel is. 

Don't you mean Billy Joelle? 

Charles has been consistently horrible in his marriage, but I was mostly on his side about Diana's performance at the ballet and that cringy as hell anniversary gift. Diana had to know that Charles would hate a big public showing like that, and that it would go from being Charles birthday to being The Diana Show and all anyone would talk about would be Diana. That really screamed of her wanting to bask in the attention of her adoring crowds, and while I get why she seeks the attention from others that she isn't getting in her marriage, that was very clearly All About Diana even if it was Charles birthday. And that video of her singing all alone in full costume with the whole orchestra for their anniversary present was so ridiculous and extra, this was clearly just another performance of The Diana Show where she had an excuse to live out one of her performer fantasies. Really, their gifts were so indicative of how ill suited they are to each other, and how little they know about each other even after years of marriage, they basically gave each other the gift that they themselves would want. Charles would love an old book full of history, and Diana would love a big display or love through a lavish musical number. The two of them still just don't understand each other, and apparently have gone past the point of really trying. Diana was still trying to at least make some token efforts, but Charles is clearly all done. 

Charles is just being so insufferable, its clear that Diana just cannot win with him no matter how much she tries to reach out, all he wants to do is whine and pine away after Camilla and be pissed off. He treats Diana like garbage then gets all offended when she is having affairs because he wont give her the time of day because he is busy with his affair, its just so hypocritical. Not only that, but he gets on his high horse about Camilla's husband cheating on her, while he is also cheating on HIS wife and Camilla is cheating on him as well. He cant even have a real honest talk with her anymore, he just wants to whine to Camilla or Anne about how much Diana sucks while taking no responsibility for his own faults in their relationship. What an absolute mess this is. Of course, if they had just let Charles marry Camilla in the first damn place none of this would even be an issue. 

 Diana singing in the car with the boys was really cute, a very nice little break in a rather depressing episode. 

Edited November 17, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Spartan Girl]

I’m sure there are plenty of men that wouldn’t have minded the Uptown Girl dance. Okay it did upstage Charles, but Charles is also a needy immature man baby who got pissy about Diana being in the spotlight even when she wasn’t trying to upstage him, like on the Australia tour. Lots of other men would have been flattered and turned on by the dance.

But the Phantom performance? Yikes, that was extra. But she still didn’t deserve the mocking behind her back.

[Umbelina]

8 hours ago, Lillith said:

This season has rekindled my dislike for Charles but tempered my dislike for Camilla a little bit. 

It's the opposite for me.

I mean, all along we've seen Charles grow up, unloved, sensitive, lost, inadequate, his only true ally bodyguards and uncle Dickie.  The school scenes alone make me have pity for him, no admiration, but definitely sympathy.  We know the reasons he's turned into the navel gazing self absorbed pathetic ninny he is.

Camilla on the other hand?  She absolutely does not have my sympathy (maybe she would if I knew she'd never had affection or love from her family, but I doubt that is even remotely true.)  From most accounts I've read, she's always been popular, many friends, and basically lived a pretty great life.  Her only fly in the ointment (or main one) seems to be that she is utterly in love with her husband, a man who cannot be faithful.

However, filling that gap of "being the only one" to someone is not fair, not when that other person is married.  It is even worse to hear them laugh about "the wife."  It's just disgusting to me.

Ugh, it's just so awful, to not just cheat, but cheat openly with most of his circle in on it, and everyone in the palace knowing.  Even as a middle-aged experienced woman, which obviously Diana was not?  It would crush me, especially knowing that everyone knew.  She didn't even get to cope with it all privately.  Fuck them both.

 

5 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Did anyone else cringe when Anne used the language "In and out and in and out" to describe to her MOTHER the logistics of Diana's relationships with various men?  That was a bit on the nose if you ask me.

 

I thought it was perfect for Anne, who never minces words.  I'm glad we got so much of her this season.  She's become the "Roger Sterling" of The Crown for me.

3 hours ago, Helena Dax said:

Ah, finally, a bit of Queen (the band)! And if I'm not wrong, the dancer who danced Uptown Girl with Diana was one of Freddie Mercury's friends, as well, and he appears in the Living on my Own video.

Philip liked 80s pop and we never knew!

The presents were terrible and I agree that it shows how mismatched they were. I think getting a video like that as a present is one of my bigger fears. 

 

Ha!  

What DO you get a spoiled, self indulgent, future King that buys whatever he wants to buy whenever the mood strikes him?

I think if she had recorded it privately, just her, and a record player, and a video camera it might have been OK with Charles, especially with the explanation she gave, that it's easier for her to show how she feels that way.  I think her intent was something personal, that she put effort into making for him, but yikes.

Adding in all those other people involved was just cringe worthy though.  

1 hour ago, greekmom said:

Actually I get her point.  Her point is look at me, fall in love with me. I am younger and more beautiful with that cow you care about. Honestly, it doesn't surprise me and I understand her point.

Charles has checked out that marriage since before the wedding vows. I feel very sorry for Diana as she would have been happy if Charles threw her the occasional bone while boning Camilla in more of a discreet manor.  Charles was very open with his relationship with Camilla to the point he was rubbing it in Diana's face.  He could have made more of an effort and broke it off with Camilla.

I don't know if that was her point, perhap you are correct though.  

I agree that Charles only married her to have the future heirs, and because it was his duty.  However, IF Camilla had cut him off?  I think they might have had a chance.  It's difficult with such an age difference, but if Charles had made himself known to her, been open with her, helped guide her in the things that were important to him?  I think Diana would have adapted.  

Moving 15 minutes away from Camilla and spending most of his time there?  Killed any chance that marriage ever had though.

38 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

I’m sure there are plenty of men that wouldn’t have minded the Uptown Girl dance. Okay it did upstage Charles, but Charles is also a needy immature man baby who got pissy about Diana being in the spotlight even when she wasn’t trying to upstage him, like on the Australia tour. Lots of other men would have been flattered and turned on by the dance.

But the Phantom performance? Yikes, that was extra. But she still didn’t deserve the mocking behind her back.

I think she was frequently mocked by that entire group, and the mustache men, as Philip called them.  I can't imagine that pain and embarrassment.  Or rather, I can't imagine staying in that world, duty to the crown or not.

Edited November 18, 2020 by Umbelina

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

But the Phantom performance? Yikes, that was extra. But she still didn’t deserve the mocking behind her back.

My Mom is the perfect person for who that performance should be for.  But my mother and Prince Charles are different people 😄

[formerlyfreedom]

From my pov, the gifts that Diana gave to Charles were deep and from her heart - but her heart was arrested at the level of a teenage girl who loved romance novels. Now, I'm not knocking romance novels, as I've read more than a few of them (my mom calls them crotch novels). But in so many, there would be a similar type of BIG SCENE that would crack open the heart of the older hardened man, who suddenly realized that this young woman was his partner for life. She really was just trying to recreate those romance novels at this point in her life, and he was her version of The Unattainable (choose your own) Duke/Sheikh/Soldier/Doctor/Pilot/Lumberjack/Pirate/Pool Boy/Chad. Unfortunately for her, he wasn't one of those.

[Quilt Fairy]

17 minutes ago, saoirse said:

From my pov, the gifts that Diana gave to Charles were deep and from her heart

I agree.  Between 2 people who love each other, they would have been sweet.  And with a husband who had some self-confidence and a sense of humor, the dance would have been fun.  Charles' sibs had done much more stupid things for charity that had been aired on TV, i.e., A Royal Knockout.  In which

Quote

The contestants competed in ridiculous and somewhat humiliating games; for example, in one round, the players dressed up as giant vegetables and threw fake hams at each other.

 

I also did not like that in the meeting with the Queen, Diana is excoriated for having a lover, but Charles' having a mistress for the entirety of his marriage is not even mentioned. 

[dubbel zout]

1 minute ago, Quilt Fairy said:

Charles' having a mistress for the entirety of his marriage is not even mentioned. 

Camilla is mentioned, just not by name. The queen and Philip call her "her," "that woman," "you know who," etc. I don't think they approve of her, but Diana is the one in-house, as it were. They have some influence over her, but none with Camilla. I doubt the queen ever said a word to her until she absolutely had to.

[Quilt Fairy]

11 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

Camilla is mentioned, just not by name.

Ok, I need to correct that:  There is no intimation that Charles needs to leave Camilla. 

[ruby24]

Ok, so in this episode I noticed once again, that part with Diana and the boys in the pool, Charles is sitting off to the side, watching and looking pained as usual. Yet the real life pictures from this, Charles is IN THE POOL with her and the kids, playing around.

So the show this season is so determined to demonize him (which I'm not denying he deserves, by the way), but they are actually leaving out ANY instances of him being a good dad or capable of showing any affection whatsoever to Diana, even in the early years of their marriage.

I just think including those parts would only help in making the painful stuff more painful and effective, in terms of drama. Diana's memories of their "good times" together were literally that one trip to Australia? That was the only time he was EVER nice to her? Why were they even on a ski trip together if they were living separate lives at that point? And why didn't we see any of it?

And why is he allowed to kiss Camilla onscreen, yet they never had him and Diana kiss once this season? 

[Roseanna]

23 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Camilla is mentioned, just not by name. The queen and Philip call her "her," "that woman," "you know who," etc. I don't think they approve of her, but Diana is the one in-house, as it were. They have some influence over her, but none with Camilla. I doubt the queen ever said a word to her until she absolutely had to.

Irl the Queen made clear her disapproval quite early: she ceased to accept Camilla as a guest. 

"That woman" was also how Wallis Simpson was called.

On 11/17/2020 at 4:27 PM, greekmom said:

Actually I get her point.  Her point is look at me, fall in love with me. I am younger and more beautiful with that cow you care about.

Your interpretation is probably right, but knowing Charles Diana's point should have been the one she successfully did in Australia: "you are most gorgeous man in the room". Plus: "your speech was so good", "I really admire your hard work", "I am so sorry you don't get recognition you deserve", "you  really good with our sons" etc. 

But of course it was too late, not to speak of that they both longed for love and admiration but couldn't give it to each other.

[tennisgurl]

5 hours ago, ruby24 said:

So the show this season is so determined to demonize him (which I'm not denying he deserves, by the way), but they are actually leaving out ANY instances of him being a good dad or capable of showing any affection whatsoever to Diana, even in the early years of their marriage.

 

Its really a problem with the show that, when they only have so much time to tell a very complicated life story that shoves several years into a few episodes, we kind of get the cliff notes version that is supposed to tell one kind of narrative for the story. I understand that they have a LOT of stuff to get through here, and its not just the Charles and Diana Show, but I do wish that we could get a bit more. 

Edited November 18, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Umbelina]

I dunno, the show spent years showing us the hell Charles went though as a child, and then they gave us Wales last year, to just drum it in more how much his mother hated him, and his father thought him a wet useless ninny.

For him to turn into this not only makes perfect sense, but also, there is background to why he is this way.

They are skipping fast through history, hitting a few high points, skipping other important, monumental things

Spoiler

like the wall coming down and Germany reunifying, and for a group of Royals that all all mostly German, that's a big skip!

So just giving us representational highs and lows of their relationship to this point fits right into the rest of the show.