S01.E01: The Undoing

[CarpeFelis]

1 minute ago, SimonSeymour said:

I noticed this too. I think maybe Grace is Americanizing it? It took me a little while to get used to the correct pronunciation on Outlander. 

But I’m American and I pronounce Fraser and Frasier differently! OTOH, we have a lot of lazy pronunciation in this country (hence things like Hyundai being dumbed down to the pronunciation “Hunday” for American consumption).

[Kiss my mutt]

I think the nudity was an essential part of it, her challenging looks at Grace in her effort to unnerve her. It’s calculating yet she comes across as vulnerable. I’m hooked! I liked looking at her body myself and I’m totally straight. It definitely adds to the noire mood. 
I was distracted by Kidman’s face too. She’s a good enough actress to get away without a moving face but it looks unnatural. Hugh looks awesome. He seemed to be overacting with his bumbling put-upon Englishman he always portrays but obviously this is covering up something more sinister unless I’m completely on the wrong track. 
This would be so bingeable. I can’t stand it. I may have to get the book. 

 

 

[Milburn Stone]

On 10/29/2020 at 8:00 PM, Kiss my mutt said:

Hugh...seemed to be overacting with his bumbling put-upon Englishman he always portrays...

You've put your finger on my biggest problem with the episode, but the problem is not Hugh, it's the writing for Hugh. Apparently Kelley set his word processor to "Hugh Grant" and it spewed out an amalgam of every sardonic upper-class Brit he's ever played, every line utterly predictable in its "witty unpredictableness." It must be dispiriting for Grant to play a character who appears to have formed a personality from watching Hugh Grant movies. Oh well. Maybe the character will go somewhere unexpected.

Edited November 1, 2020 by Milburn Stone

[Miss Slay]

On 10/26/2020 at 3:03 PM, Bulldog said:

Another thing that I meant to mention earlier . . . there was something said very quickly about Grace and Jonathan not paying the tuition for their son's schooling.  I think it was implied that Grace's father is paying the tuition.  I would think two apparently successful doctors in NYC should be able to easily swing the private school tuition.  Maybe Grace and Jonathan aren't as well off financially as their lifestyle would lead you to believe. Or, maybe I misinterpreted the whole thing. 

This is how the rich stay rich. Or at least, the upper middle class do. You'd be surprised by the amount of people I know who attended private school (and college) who's grandparents paid for it.  If the grandparents pay - that frees up the parents money to go toward a certain lifestyle. Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

[catsitter]

On 10/26/2020 at 3:00 AM, Bulldog said:

I don't for a second believe that Jonathan killed Elena.  That would be way too obvious.  Could they have worked "its always the husband" into the script any more than they did? 

Grace's story to the kid about the dead dog was total BS, right? 

Is it really police procedure to immediately question the parents of the deceased's kid's classmates so soon after discovering the murder?  I mean, I could see doing that if the investigation led you there, but it seemed as if this was immediately after the body was found.  Wouldn't they be focused on her family and people who actually knew her? 

I know we were supposed to think that the parents who could afford to send their kids to the pricey school were completely out of touch, but I have a hard time believing that even they would seriously auction off a glass of water.  Just ask for a donation and be done with it. 

I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but Elena was waaayyy to free with the nudity.  Who does that?  I'm all for having a positive body image, but I don't think a nursing blanket when nursing in public or a towel when in the locker room is too much to ask.  I did enjoy Grace's reaction when Elena kept standing in front of her totally naked.  When she was recounting it to Jonathan, I kept thinking of the old comedy routine of the difference between naked and nekkid.  Naked is no clothes.  Nekkid is no clothes and your up to something.  

Right now, my money is on either Grace's father or her kid being the culprit.  I'm leaning towards the kid. 

I have to disagree.  I think he's actually gotten better looking with age.  Certainly better than his Divine Brown days.    

ETA:  I would love to read Grace's first patient's Yelp review of Grace's practice.  

Elena didn't even need to take her top off completely to breast-feed the baby; she could have just lifted it up.  Did seem a bit weird to me.

On 10/27/2020 at 7:58 PM, Aim123 said:

In wealthy families like this, it isn't that they can't pay it. It is just sometimes that parents say they would like to cover the cost of the education, and you just let them. There are so many scenarios. 

I wonder if Grace's DNA is on Elena from the kiss, and that is why they went straight to her?

But they wouldn't have a sample of Grace's DNA to compare it to. 

 

I thought it was strange that the school sent out alerts to all the parents saying that a parent had been killed, but maybe that's what that kind of school would do?

[Happytobehere]

On 10/26/2020 at 10:33 AM, Bluesky said:

It wasn’t her husband, it was a different guy with the same name.  
I have a hard time with Nicole Kidman’s face.  It looks like a mask and hardly moves when she talks.  Way overboard with plastic surgery. 

Thank you. As I was watching, all I could think was, Nicole needs to get a friend who will tell her to cut the plastic surgery. Nicole’s face is actually a distraction. I can’t 8magine what she looks like up close and sans the professional makeup job.

 

On 10/27/2020 at 11:13 PM, CarpeFelis said:

I just rewatched and now I’m wondering if it was really Jonathan she was staring at during the auction.

That’s who I thought she was looking at, which immediately made me question the paternity of that baby.

[Lemons]

On 10/31/2020 at 12:22 AM, Miss Slay said:

This is how the rich stay rich. Or at least, the upper middle class do. You'd be surprised by the amount of people I know who attended private school (and college) who's grandparents paid for it.  If the grandparents pay - that frees up the parents money to go toward a certain lifestyle. Rich Dad, Poor Dad.

Or, like in my family, the parents can't afford it and the grandparents can.  

[Ashforth]

I'm not distracted by Kidman's face, but I am distracted by her weave (you can't tell me that's all her real hair) and her tendency to slip into her native Australian accent from time to time.

If Elena was involved with Grace's dad, it would explain the "scholarship" for Miguel. If she was involved with Jonathan, it would explain her aggressive nudity in front of Grace. Her body was beautiful, but in full nudity it was not the body of a woman who just gave birth to a baby - totally flat stomach, not an ounce of fat anywhere, nary a stretch mark, come on, show. I thought she was coming on to Grace, but having it be an in-your-face here's what your man really wants makes sense, as does her weeping in the bathroom after seeing Grace and Jonathan together. 

It did seem like Jonathan was lying when he said he had gotten a page about a patient at the auction. It will be easy enough to find out where the driver took him, if anywhere. 

I didn't think it seemed like the detectives came after Grace aggressively for questioning. They questioned other parents at the school and she wasn't there. It did seem odd that she was so evasive, so we shall see... I'm sure there is footage of that kiss in the elevator. That's not going to help her.

I thought it was strange that Grace didn't call her son upon learning of the murder to either tell him herself or ask how he was. Surely she couldn't be stupid enough to think that the news wouldn't be all over the school.

All in all, I thought it was a little slow, but I liked it. I'm about to watch ep. 2. I'm glad that HBO doesn't drop all of the episodes at once, especially because it makes the discussion here so much more lively, IMO.

ETA: aaand I'm such a smartypants about being glad the eps don't all drop at once, then bop over to On Demand to watch ep 2 and whaaaaaa? It isn't available because it airs tonight. I hadn't looked at the dates and assumed because 3 eps were listed they were all available. 🤭 See y'all back here after tonight's ep!

Edited November 1, 2020 by Ashforth

[peach]

2 hours ago, Ashforth said:

It did seem like Jonathan was lying when he said he had gotten a page about a patient at the auction. It will be easy enough to find out where the driver took him, if anywhere. 

I think he told Grace to keep the driver for herself, and he didn't use it.  She kept mentioning it, so perhaps it was just to establish that Elena said she took the subway, and Johnathan just...left.  So it's possible they were either together or he followed her.  Which could all be a red herring.  Or maybe the driver will tie back to whatever Grace did.

It's Chekhov's driver!

Edited November 2, 2020 by peach
add a dumb joke

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 11/1/2020 at 4:32 PM, peach said:

I think he told Grace to keep the driver for herself, and he didn't use it.  She kept mentioning it, so perhaps it was just to establish that Elena said she took the subway, and Johnathan just...left.  So it's possible they were either together or he followed her.  Which could all be a red herring.  Or maybe the driver will tie back to whatever Grace did.

It's Chekhov's driver!

He took the car and she said that she would Uber home. I was wondering why he didn't just get dropped off at the hospital and then send the car back to the party to take her home.

[Razzberry]

I'm all in, even if there's only 3 episodes.  Glad they're spread out too.  I think Nicole looks pretty good and don't blame her for getting work done.  Hollywood is very unforgiving, for females anyway.

[Melina22]

On 10/26/2020 at 12:08 AM, Rickster said:

Hugh is a couple of years younger, both in their early 50’s.

That's insane! He looks like her father. 

I spent way too much time focusing on Nicole's looks... her flawless skin and spectacular hair. I'm fascinated by her face, and speculating on how rich you have to be to achieve that level of perfection at her age, without falling into the usual uncanny valley trap. 

That said, I didn't watch anything she did for several years because of her frozen face and trout mouth. It was simply impossible for me to accept her in any role when she looked so odd and couldn't move any part of her face. But tonight I was shocked and surprised at how amazing she looks and how mobile her face is once again. I admit it took me out of the show a little, but I still really enjoyed it. Her acting was good and way more natural than usual. 

I also thought Hugh looked older than I remembered, but I do appreciate the way British actors tend to avoid cosmetic surgery. But it can be jarring when they stand beside someone their age who looks preternaturally young. 

Looks aside, I enjoyed the episode and the gorgeous interiors and lifestyles of the rich and... rich. 

I found Elena deeply weird and inappropriate. But her son that found her was so adorable, and so heartbreaking. I also liked Grace's son. Good casting. 

Why were the detectives asking such odd, in-depth questions of people who barely knew the victim? Maybe we'll find out. 

Edited November 7, 2020 by Melina22

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 10/26/2020 at 1:56 AM, CarpeFelis said:

The one thing that kept bugging me: shouldn’t Grace know how to correctly pronounce her own last name? It’s Fraser and her husband correctly pronounced it as Fray-zer while she repeatedly pronounced it as Fray-zher which woukd be Frasier.

This is really distracting to me, too!!

[Aqua]

On 10/26/2020 at 2:28 PM, iMonrey said:

I was confused at the end. So Grace's husband left his cell phone behind, right? That's what she found in the drawer? And she started calling different hotels trying to find him and got some guy whose voice she didn't recognize? Same name? Is her husband an imposter or something? Who goes out of town to a convention without even telling his wife where he's going to be staying?

He mentioned the Hyatt Regency and made a comment about needing to stay overnight to get the points and a free breakfast. But he didn't specify which one, which is why she had to try a few before she found one that had a Jonathan Fraser staying there.

On 10/26/2020 at 5:03 PM, Bulldog said:

It never occurred to me that Jonathan could be an imposter, although I guess anything is possible.   We did have the flashback of him with the sick patient.

I thought of a possible imposter angle but I think he is Henry's bio father so that would be a like  14-year impostership going on. The flashback with the sick patient was to identify the child who he had to leave the fundraiser for to attend to because he had a medical emergency. It was the same name, which escapes me.

On 10/26/2020 at 5:03 PM, Bulldog said:

Maybe Grace and Jonathan aren't as well off financially as their lifestyle would lead you to believe. Or, maybe I misinterpreted the whole thing. 

I wondered about that too but not only do they have a very high-end SUV, they also have a private driver which is way over the top in Manhattan even for a couple very comfortable doctors.

On 10/31/2020 at 11:45 AM, catsitter said:

But they wouldn't have a sample of Grace's DNA to compare it to. 

Unless they already have it for another reason.

So far I find this show overall quite delicious.

I think I'm in the minority in that Hugh Grant really annoyed me, maybe for the afore-mentioned bumbling Englishman thing. I was hoping he'd be dead by the episode's end but maybe he'll stay missing for a while. I think the dog story and the crying over the dead patient was possibly to show him as a sympathetic character so we don't suspect him of anything too soon.

I did think, however, that Grace's annoyance at not being able to track him down at a hotel seemed to be not the first time something like this has happened. Did he cheat in the past and she's catching him again? She seemed perturbed to me but also like this was somewhat familiar.

J & G's son Henry starts off as the quintessential precocious NYC kid with the hair to boot but as the episode progressed, the actor showed some range, so that was refreshing.

Did that second scene in the locker room where Elena questions Grace really happen and was repressed? Or was that her using her psychologist skills to imagine the subtext of what Elena said? 

Regarding the kiss in the elevator: I rewound it a couple times and Grace definitely kissed back or at least leaned in; she was not taken aback and may in fact have been wanting such.

I don't think Grace acted like she knows something more; I think she's unnerved that she seems to be a suspect and so she's inadvertently acting suspicious. Did anyone catch the cop sneak a peak at the papers on her kitchen table? They were definitely doing the good cop/bad cop routine with the Latino cop playing the heavy.

Nicole is very pretty but I think she looked better in Big Little Lies. I did notice the freeze-face a bit but I agree as mentioned above the character needs to as a psychologist to maintain an appearance of objectivity so it could be intentional.

[heatherchandler]

 

On 10/25/2020 at 10:08 PM, Rickster said:

Hugh is a couple of years younger, both in their early 50’s.

 

 

 

On 11/6/2020 at 10:31 PM, Melina22 said:

That's insane! He looks like her father. 

 

 

Hugh is 60! 

Nicole is listed as 53 on Wikipedia... I am sure she has shaved off a few years.  

 

[OkWhatever]

On 10/26/2020 at 1:56 AM, CarpeFelis said:

The one thing that kept bugging me: shouldn’t Grace know how to correctly pronounce her own last name? It’s Fraser and her husband correctly pronounced it as Fray-zer while she repeatedly pronounced it as Fray-zher which woukd be Frasier.

Me too!  Very confusing. Didn't anyone notice while they were filming? 

[hoodooznoodooz]

If someone wearing not one stitch of clothing walked up to me, sitting on a bench in a locker room, I would stand up.

[Aqua]

4 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

If someone wearing not one stitch of clothing walked up to me, sitting on a bench in a locker room, I would stand up.

I think Grace was too insecure to do that.

[hoodooznoodooz]

Does anyone else find it offensive the way they talk about the purpose of the fundraiser? We want to raise money to provide scholarships. So that Reardon’s UES students will benefit from diversity in the student body. 
 

[Ashforth]

1 minute ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Does anyone else find it offensive the way they talk about the purpose of the fundraiser? We want to raise money to provide scholarships. So that Reardon’s UES students will benefit from diversity in the student body. 
 

It was completely offensive. Perhaps purposely, to emphasize the attitudes of the parents toward POC. "They're poor and beneath us." 

I did find this online: "In 2018, there were about 204,469 people in Upper East Side, with 11.4% of the population identified as Asian, 3.2% identified as black, 6.7% identified as Hispanic, and 75.9% identified as white."

[Aqua]

16 minutes ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Does anyone else find it offensive the way they talk about the purpose of the fundraiser? We want to raise money to provide scholarships. So that Reardon’s UES students will benefit from diversity in the student body. 
 

Also I think there were air quotes with that. I think it was supposed to be offensive! These ladies remind me of the ones in Big Little Lies.

[tennisgurl]

Well color me intrigued. I thought I had an idea of where this was going, but Jonathan seemingly disappearing throws another wrench into the whole thing. I am actually kind of sad that everything is going to go to hell for Grace's family and it will certainly be revealed that they all have tons of dark secrets, because Hugh and Nicole have really nice chemistry and are quite charming together. Both of them look great and are aging very well, and I do buy them as a (seemingly?) happy couple. I am guessing that Grace's marriage counseling session will be foreshadowing whatever is going on with Grace and Jonathan.

The dog story Grace told her son sounded incredibly fake, and it makes me look a bit closer at the son. He seems like a nice enough kid, but I wonder if he killed Elena because she was having an affair with one of his parents and didn't want them to break up? I don't know, I think I have seen too many murder kid shows, but there is definitely a lot more going on. 

I have no idea what Elena's deal was, her nudity and breast feeding her baby really did feel somehow...pointed? Not that I'm judging nudity or breast feeding, but it did feel like she was trying to make a statement of some kind or test how people react. She seemed really intense, but still vulnerable, and she definitely seemed to be feeling some kind of way towards Grace.

Edited November 12, 2020 by tennisgurl

[Manasicaje]

On 11/10/2020 at 5:58 AM, OkWhatever said:

It’s Fraser and her husband correctly pronounced it as Fray-zer while she repeatedly pronounced it as Fray-zher which woukd be Frasier.

I’m so pleased someone else noticed this. It bugged me terribly, and stood out like a sore thumb. 
 

And, yes someone on set should’ve picked up on this. 
 

((side note... I’m a microbiologist, and in our industry we commonly use an enrichment medium to grow Listeria called Fraser Broth, and it’s my pet hate when colleagues mispronounce it as “fray-zhuh broth”... so I’m definitely predisposed to noticing the incorrect pronunciation of Fraser!))

[AryasMum]

On 11/9/2020 at 4:21 PM, heatherchandler said:

 

 

 

 

Hugh is 60! 

Nicole is listed as 53 on Wikipedia... I am sure she has shaved off a few years.  

 

Nicole has been acting since she was 16. If she’s lying about her age it’s been a 37 year con. 

[Ashforth]

9 hours ago, AryasMum said:

Nicole has been acting since she was 16. If she’s lying about her age it’s been a 37 year con. 

Gotta start early! LOL

Celebrities do lie about their ages all the time, though. My late sister once noted, "Madonna and I used the be the same age and now she's two years younger than I am."

[heatherchandler]

10 hours ago, AryasMum said:

Nicole has been acting since she was 16. If she’s lying about her age it’s been a 37 year con. 

Yeah, they all do it.  

[Cheezwiz]

On 11/12/2020 at 9:30 AM, tennisgurl said:

I am actually kind of sad that everything is going to go to hell for Grace's family and it will certainly be revealed that they all have tons of dark secrets, because Hugh and Nicole have really nice chemistry and are quite charming together.

I too, am kind of bummed by this. I actually liked the initial glimpse of their home-life and and relationship - they seemed funny and sweet together. The boy who plays their son is very good, but in no way looks like he could be the offspring of either of them, so I find that a bit distracting.

I think Hugh looks pretty fantastic for someone who has aged pretty normally, and Nicole could definitely ease up on the procedures, but still looks gorgeous - I love the colours they dressed her in in this episode. The actress playing Elena reminded me a bit of a raven-haired Jennifer Lawrence. 

It's clear that Nicole's character is an unreliable narrator, and is hiding information. I think the guess someone made upthread about the elevator kiss being caught on camera by police is correct. Lordy, the actor playing Detective Mendoza is one handsome dude.

I'm already thoroughly hooked on the plot, and also enjoying the NY Upper-West side decor/clothing eye-candy.

[hoodooznoodooz]

 

On 11/23/2020 at 3:07 AM, Cheezwiz said:

Lordy, the actor playing Detective Mendoza is one handsome dude.

You might want to watch The Assassination of Gianni Versace. He is handsome and so lovable in that.

[Anela]

I thought that some of the women were making Elena feel uncomfortable, so she decided to make them uncomfortable by removing her top entirely. 

I don't care if she's done anything to her face, Nicole looks great. I don't think Hugh Grant has ever been expected to do anything like dye his hair, or even use a skin cream, let along do anything else to make himself look younger and better. 

[DangerousMinds]

Younger isn’t necessarily “better.” 🤷‍♀️

[Anela]

33 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Younger isn’t necessarily “better.” 🤷‍♀️

No, but women are usually pressured to look a certain way. That's what I meant. 

[Ashforth]

1 hour ago, Anela said:

No, but women are usually pressured to look a certain way. That's what I meant. 

Women are always pressured to look and present themselves a certain way. It begins in childhood. Be thin, dress within societal norms, be "nice" and accommodating - don't be a "bitch" by standing up for yourself. As we age, having gray hair or wrinkles is frowned upon - you must dye your hair and use treatments or products to keep that skin tight. 

Look at Kidman and compare her to Grant and Sutherland. Enough said.

[LeGrandElephant]

On 10/26/2020 at 2:03 PM, Bulldog said:

We did have the flashback of him with the sick patient.

Was that supposed to be a flashback? I thought they were showing that he did go to the hospital that night from the party. I’ll be annoyed if it turns out he didn’t - seems like a cheat on the part of the show. And if it was Grace’s flashback - she wouldn’t have been there to witness that kind of scene in a hospital. 

Edited December 6, 2020 by LeGrandElephant

[lucindabelle]

On 10/26/2020 at 6:03 PM, Bulldog said:

I think the hotel that Grace called first was where she thought he was staying.  When she was told that he wasn't registered there, she started calling other hotels under the same brand in the area looking for him.  She finally did get somebody with the same name.  It seems kind of a stretch, but I suppose the name isn't that unique that there couldn't be somebody with the same name staying in a hotel at the same time. (Although, from the tone of that guy's wife, I think he's going to have some explaining to do.) It never occurred to me that Jonathan could be an imposter, although I guess anything is possible.   We did have the flashback of him with the sick patient. 

Another thing that I meant to mention earlier . . . there was something said very quickly about Grace and Jonathan not paying the tuition for their son's schooling.  I think it was implied that Grace's father is paying the tuition.  I would think two apparently successful doctors in NYC should be able to easily swing the private school tuition.  Maybe Grace and Jonathan aren't as well off financially as their lifestyle would lead you to believe. Or, maybe I misinterpreted the whole thing. 

True story.

once doing dissertation research I was meeting a subject, let’s call him Alan Moore, at Oxford train station. We’d emailed but I realized I didn’t know what he looked like.

arrived and saw a handsome wel dressed man- rather smarter and classier than I expected- standing looking like he was waiting for someone.

went up to hkm. Alan Moore?

Yes.

hi! I’m lucindabelle.

(Blank look)

alan Moore?

yes

it’s me it’s lucindabelle.

(long pause)

(finally)

I am Alan Moore but not the one you want.

(about 100 yards further I saw the one waiting for me: seedy and run down. 
Two men by the same name at the same train waiting for someone.

so to me, that there’s another Jonathan Fraser ar a Cleveland Hyatt was completely plausible.)

[Aqua]

8 hours ago, lucindabelle said:

True story.

once doing dissertation research I was meeting a subject, let’s call him Alan Moore, at Oxford train station. We’d emailed but I realized I didn’t know what he looked like.

arrived and saw a handsome wel dressed man- rather smarter and classier than I expected- standing looking like he was waiting for someone.

went up to hkm. Alan Moore?

Yes.

hi! I’m lucindabelle.

(Blank look)

alan Moore?

yes

it’s me it’s lucindabelle.

(long pause)

(finally)

I am Alan Moore but not the one you want.

(about 100 yards further I saw the one waiting for me: seedy and run down. 
Two men by the same name at the same train waiting for someone.

so to me, that there’s another Jonathan Fraser ar a Cleveland Hyatt was completely plausible.)

Better a business meeting than a date!

[hoodooznoodooz]

On 12/30/2020 at 1:05 AM, lucindabelle said:

True story.

once doing dissertation research I was meeting a subject, let’s call him Alan Moore, at Oxford train station. We’d emailed but I realized I didn’t know what he looked like.

arrived and saw a handsome wel dressed man- rather smarter and classier than I expected- standing looking like he was waiting for someone.

went up to hkm. Alan Moore?

Yes.

hi! I’m lucindabelle.

(Blank look)

alan Moore?

yes

it’s me it’s lucindabelle.

(long pause)

(finally)

I am Alan Moore but not the one you want.

(about 100 yards further I saw the one waiting for me: seedy and run down. 
Two men by the same name at the same train waiting for someone.

so to me, that there’s another Jonathan Fraser ar a Cleveland Hyatt was completely plausible.)

Did you all pronounce “Alan Moore” the same way?

[lucindabelle]

6 hours ago, hoodooznoodooz said:

Did you all pronounce “Alan Moore” the same way?

That wasn’t his actual name haha anymore that lucindabelle is mine. But I’m American and subject british so didn’t matter...