Hanahope August 9, 2021 Share August 9, 2021 I just finished the Vow and just started Seduced, and agree with most everyone else here. The Vow I suppose was an ok introduction to Nxivm and at least how it started, but Seduced shows how it was never a good thing. Of course, the moment it started talking about EM's, I'm thinking oh, that's auditing from Scientology. and in Seduced, they discuss how Nancy taught NLP, a way of speaking that relaxes people, gets them to talk about things more easily. Seriously people, psychological therapy is a lot cheaper than a whole bunch of $5,000 five day intensives, and performed by someone with an actual college/medical degree instead of an actor. As for other cults, there are all sorts that can draw in different people. there's the psychobabble ones like Scientology (which at least keeps itself semi-legal because there's no sex slaves), the religious ones like the Moonies, the science ones like Theranos, and the political ones like a certain red capped group and leader (think about it and the parallels - though more are shown in Seduced). Lauren Saltzman got off so easy, even late cooperation brings benefits, I guess. I do hope that the second season goes more into the details of the crimes, the racketeering and all. And how stupid/egotistical could KR be but to run another MLM in NY, after the Consumer Buyline fallout. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-6942305
DanaK September 8, 2021 Share September 8, 2021 Nancy Saltzman sentenced to 42 months https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/nxivm-cult-nancy-salzman-the-vow-prison-sentence-1235059017/ 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-6994566
kathe5133 September 19, 2021 Share September 19, 2021 Wow! Just wow. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7013282
Tachi Rocinante June 22, 2022 Share June 22, 2022 Not sure if anyone cares, but Bonnie reprised her role as Beru Lars in the Star Wars miniseries Obi Wan Kenobi. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7518291
DanaK August 29, 2022 Share August 29, 2022 Part 2 premieres October 17. The link includes the trailer http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news/2022/08/29/hbo-original-documentary-series-the-vow-part-two-debuts-october-17-381010/20220829hbo02/ 1 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7625066
MicheleinPhilly August 30, 2022 Share August 30, 2022 On 8/29/2022 at 10:20 PM, DanaK said: Part 2 premieres October 17. The link includes the trailer http://www.thefutoncritic.com/news/2022/08/29/hbo-original-documentary-series-the-vow-part-two-debuts-october-17-381010/20220829hbo02/ Expand Meh. I don't know if I have it in me to watch this. It was fine and all when I literally couldn't leave the house because of lockdowns and such, but I may be over it. And seeing Sarah and Mark again...🙄 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7626044
DanaK August 30, 2022 Share August 30, 2022 (edited) On 8/30/2022 at 1:55 PM, MicheleinPhilly said: Meh. I don't know if I have it in me to watch this. It was fine and all when I literally couldn't leave the house because of lockdowns and such, but I may be over it. And seeing Sarah and Mark again...🙄 Expand For me, the best and most riveting parts of Part 1 were hearing from former insiders (other than Sarah and Mark and the other two) who had suffered from NXIVM's abuse. If we hear from actual insiders (or former now) for Part 2, I think it could be very interesting, even if Keith spouts gibberish and we get artsy fartsy film footage from Mark again. And it's 6 episodes vs 9 this time Edited August 30, 2022 by DanaK 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7626180
merylinkid August 30, 2022 Share August 30, 2022 On 8/30/2022 at 3:38 PM, DanaK said: For me, the best and most riveting parts of Part 1 were hearing from former insiders (other than Sarah and Mark and the other two) who had suffered from NXIVM's abuse. If we hear from actual insiders (or former now) for Part 2, I think it could be very interesting, even if Keith spouts gibberish and we get artsy fartsy film footage from Mark again. And it's 6 episodes vs 9 this time Expand Yeah I don't need to see Sarah showing off her brand again. While Catherine Oxenberg looks concerned. It was just boring. All "What the fuck am I doing" while showing no introspection about WHY they got there and how at all. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7626318
luckyroll3 August 31, 2022 Share August 31, 2022 I don't know if I'm committed to watching either (although I surely did enter it on my TV calendar! 😂), but it kinda looked from the preview like they maybe got interviews with Nancy, and if they did I ALLLLLLL in! 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7627369
Tachi Rocinante September 10, 2022 Share September 10, 2022 Ugh. They showed a clip of the morons dancing in front of the prison. Nicki Clyne is still delusional, I'll bet. Odds they mention Bonnie being in Obi Wan? 5-1. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7643633
DanaK September 22, 2022 Share September 22, 2022 (edited) On 8/31/2022 at 1:09 PM, luckyroll3 said: I don't know if I'm committed to watching either (although I surely did enter it on my TV calendar! 😂), but it kinda looked from the preview like they maybe got interviews with Nancy, and if they did I ALLLLLLL in! Expand Definitely one or more interviews with Nance Press release http://thefutoncritic.com/news/2022/09/22/hbo-original-documentary-series-the-vow-part-two-debuts-october-17-144111/20220922hbo02/ Official trailer for Part 2 Edited September 22, 2022 by DanaK 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7663944
SunnyBeBe September 23, 2022 Share September 23, 2022 There’s an update in the news recently about the leader….anyone see it? I won’t post here since not on the show. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7664538
luckyroll3 September 23, 2022 Share September 23, 2022 Just saw the new trailer and I'm so in! 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7665536
DanaK September 23, 2022 Share September 23, 2022 On 9/23/2022 at 12:35 AM, SunnyBeBe said: There’s an update in the news recently about the leader….anyone see it? I won’t post here since not on the show. Expand About him suing the Justice Department or something like that? 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7665627
SunnyBeBe September 23, 2022 Share September 23, 2022 Reveal spoiler No, it seems he was attacked in prison. Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7665693
luckyroll3 September 24, 2022 Share September 24, 2022 On 9/23/2022 at 7:21 PM, SunnyBeBe said: Reveal spoiler No, it seems he was attacked in prison. Expand Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy. 2 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7666881
DanaK October 12, 2022 Share October 12, 2022 Interesting review. Review has details of the series that you might consider spoilers 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7697600
JD5166 October 16, 2022 Share October 16, 2022 I have been re-watching the first season, and I forgot how much I really didn’t like Mark and especially Sarah. Sitting there reading about herself online while her young son cries for her attention but she can’t be bothered. I would be surprised if Nippy stayed with her, she is so selfish. Looking forward to this next season, tho!! 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7703683
DanaK October 18, 2022 Share October 18, 2022 (edited) First episode of Part 2: Yikes at that lead defense attorney and him defending DOS as a female empowerment group Hearing from some in the group who still defend Keith and the company shows the hold he still has over them Some interesting disturbing stuff about Keith from former insiders, along with various video and audio of Keith saying stuff (a lot of it nonsense). Interesting that Keith thought Nancy Salzman was replaceable early on, but then she got better with what she was doing Ha, teasing the interview with Nancy, which we’ll hopefully get next episode This episode was a little too sprawling for me to fully embrace it, but I guess they had a lot to tell. Hopefully it tightens up some in subsequent episodes Edited October 18, 2022 by DanaK 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7707164
Andyourlittledog2 October 18, 2022 Share October 18, 2022 I really hope they get into Keith's work in Mexico and how he had underage teenage girls flown to NY to act as his servants and how one or more were locked up in a room and there was sex with them etc. It's something I'd like to see more light shed on but usually they only talk about what happened with the very well off/wealthy women (and men) disciples he conned in the US. But he had a whole thing going on in Mexico. I liked this first season two episode but it is hard listening to his defenders, especially the defense attorney. I was in a cult for sixteen years starting at age fifteen and I know it is difficult to overcome the us versus them aspect of it all. Whatever arguments outsiders make you have already learned to resist and counter so it's just water off a duck's back. Having attorneys reinforce that is not helpful to the process of finding yourself again. 2 4 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7707173
izabella October 18, 2022 Share October 18, 2022 On 10/18/2022 at 4:09 AM, Andyourlittledog2 said: I really hope they get into Keith's work in Mexico and how he had underage teenage girls flown to NY to act as his servants and how one or more were locked up in a room and there was sex with them etc. It's something I'd like to see more light shed on but usually they only talk about what happened with the very well off/wealthy women (and men) disciples he conned in the US. But he had a whole thing going on in Mexico. Expand I agree. We're getting lots of Keith pontificating again, and too much what feels like promotion of the program, but not much on all those federal charges. I'm reminded of being irritated that the first part seemed to want to portray Keith's program as a legitimate self-help program instead of a pyramid scheme, because it still feels like that. No matter how "good" Nancy became at presenting the jargon, she was still always just conning the marks into giving her and Keith their money and services. The program only existed for that purpose, not to help anyone. 2 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7707217
Libby October 18, 2022 Share October 18, 2022 (edited) I watched the 1st episode of season 2 and then went back and watched season 1. I think that this crazy man was able to take advantage of these people because they were extremely self involved. They were so self indulgent that he just swooped in and took advantage of that trait in them. They think that their motives were to improve the world, but I think that they just had an over inflated view of themselves. They all would have been better off if they just put their heads down and went to work everyday instead of looking to this guy to support their illusions of grandeur. They ended up in over their head with a crazy man, which I sympathize with. However, they did it to themselves because they were way too self absorbed. Edited October 18, 2022 by Libby 1 3 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7708081
Door County Cherry October 19, 2022 Author Share October 19, 2022 I thought it was interesting for the documentary to interview people who still supported Keith. I hope we follow them as the trial goes on. I wonder if any of them have changed their minds. But what really struck me is the old footage of Alison and Nancy with Keith. I had forgotten how enamored they were with him. Especially Alison. 3 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7708758
EtheltoTillie October 19, 2022 Share October 19, 2022 On 10/18/2022 at 9:10 PM, Libby said: I watched the 1st episode of season 2 and then went back and watched season 1. I think that this crazy man was able to take advantage of these people because they were extremely self involved. They were so self indulgent that he just swooped in and took advantage of that trait in them. They think that their motives were to improve the world, but I think that they just had an over inflated view of themselves. They all would have been better off if they just put their heads down and went to work everyday instead of looking to this guy to support their illusions of grandeur. They ended up in over their head with a crazy man, which I sympathize with. However, they did it to themselves because they were way too self absorbed. Expand Yes, that's what I got from that young Black woman (don't know name) who is still a supporter. She kept saying she joined because she wanted to be the "best." The whole idea of self improvement is such nonsense. Going back decades to other cults like EST, they were always about self improvement, but the leaders actually made you feel bad about yourself. She was just vulnerable. Sad. 3 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7708848
Armchair Critic October 19, 2022 Share October 19, 2022 The dancing outside the prison for Keith is so cringe. 4 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7708901
Armchair Critic October 19, 2022 Share October 19, 2022 They showed Nancy looking at Keith like she was enthralled with him. He was sleeping with her daughter, had he slept with her too? Some of the women are heavier since they left the cult, I guess now they can eat since they don't have to stay super thin for Keith. I dress better than the Seagram's heiress and I am no fashion model. Interesting they will have an interview with Nancy but will she just spout a bunch of NXIVM platitudes? I don't think any of them has really been totally honest, especially Mark and Sarah. They both were in the cult too long, I am skeptical of both of them, they both seem to be self serving and are still holding back on some truths. 2 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7709026
DanaK October 19, 2022 Share October 19, 2022 Good, informative interview that might contain spoilers for some 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7709326
sistermagpie October 20, 2022 Share October 20, 2022 On 10/19/2022 at 2:45 PM, Armchair Critic said: I don't think any of them has really been totally honest, especially Mark and Sarah. They both were in the cult too long, I am skeptical of both of them, they both seem to be self serving and are still holding back on some truths. Expand And wasn't it Mark's *second* cult? 3 2 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7710431
violet and green October 23, 2022 Share October 23, 2022 (edited) I'm so glad this is back for a second season. I find it all so fascinating. It's easy to judge these people for getting sucked in, but that is just as much an "us" versus "them" notion as cult leaders like to propagate, I think. Am really looking forward to hearing what Nancy Salzman says. Edited October 23, 2022 by violet and green typos 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7715000
javajeanelaine October 23, 2022 Share October 23, 2022 The issue I have with Sarah is that I don’t believe she has accepted full responsibility for her role. If she had, she wouldn’t be monetizing her experience through her podcast, merchandise and now she has Patreon memberships. 2 1 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7715195
Armchair Critic October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 (edited) Starting episode 2... I think from now on I will skip the intro music, that loud aaaaah during it made my cat look. 😅 Do you think Keith kept his sexual hijinks away from Nancy so she was oblivious? Or did she know what he was doing but overlooked it because she believed in their cause? I can see how she is convincing, I want to believe she really meant well but then I remember that she is a master at manipulating people's minds. Wasn't it actually Nippy's wife Sarah who was part of the secret group and was blackmailing them with their "collateral"? I think Mark and Sarah were sweating it because they were worried about how much they were complicit was going to come out. Maybe Nancy should be blaming her daughter Lauren too because she was the leader of the women's secret cult. Also she was sleeping with Keith. Edited October 25, 2022 by Armchair Critic 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7718420
DanaK October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 1:07 AM, Armchair Critic said: Starting episode 2... I think from now on I will skip the intro music, that loud aaaaah during it made my cat look. 😅 Do you think Keith kept his sexual hijinks away from Nancy so she was oblivious? Or did she know what he was doing but overlooked it because she believed in their cause? I can see how she is convincing, I want to believe she really meant well but then I remember that she is a master at manipulating people's minds. Wasn't it actually Nippy's wife Sarah who was part of the secret group and was blackmailing them with their "collateral"? I think Mark and Sarah were sweating it because they were worried about how much they were complicit was going to come out. Maybe Nancy should be blaming her daughter Lauren too because she was the leader of the women's secret cult. Also she was sleeping with Keith. Expand It seems clear to me that Nancy is fooling herself or trying to fool viewers when she says the bad stuff was not part of her business and the business did a lot of good. If you convince people that abuse is something made up or you are the cause of your problems and to tamp down on your fear intuition, it’s ripe for abuse and allows groups like NXIVM to take advantage of you and suck you in 8 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7718616
Armchair Critic October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 (edited) What was with Nancy's dumpy looking jeans? Maybe she wanted to look like a harmless “middle class” woman so she is non threatening? Edited October 25, 2022 by Armchair Critic 1 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7718623
DanaK October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 Part of the creed of NXIVM that was recited was “There are no ultimate victims; therefore, I will not choose to be a victim”. I mean, holy crap. Sure, you can choose to respond differently to something that happens to you and choose not to wallow in it and therefore become stronger. But that’s different than thinking being a victim is a bad thing or shouldn’t happen. That’s basically telling them it’s their fault and that’s a really bad thing to try to convince people of that, especially women and other disadvantaged groups who have to work against societal harms. As I said in my previous post, it tamps down on that intuition of fear that women especially need to have that tells them they are in a bad situation that they need to get out of. NXIVM teachings certainly sound like Gaslighting 101, which is what happens with most cults (and some corporate teachings too) 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7718650
EtheltoTillie October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 They used the same language and concepts as Scientology! E.g. suppressive person. So Keith just stole from LRH. 2 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7718663
izabella October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 1:07 AM, Armchair Critic said: Do you think Keith kept his sexual hijinks away from Nancy so she was oblivious? Or did she know what he was doing but overlooked it because she believed in their cause? I can see how she is convincing, I want to believe she really meant well but then I remember that she is a master at manipulating people's minds. Expand He may have kept the sex cult part away from her. But she knew he was involved sexually with many of the young, vulnerable women in the group over the years. Including her own daughter, right? Isn't Keith the father of Lauren's child? Maybe I'm misremembering. On 10/25/2022 at 2:48 AM, DanaK said: It seems clear to me that Nancy is fooling herself or trying to fool viewers when she says the bad stuff was not part of her business and the business did a lot of good. If you convince people that abuse is something made up or you are the cause of your problems and to tamp down on your fear intuition, it’s ripe for abuse and allows groups like NXIVM to take advantage of you and suck you in Expand Also, her business was set up as a pyramid scheme and her program required people to provide blackmail material, so she's definitely trying to fool us. 2 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7718723
DanaK October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 4:13 AM, izabella said: He may have kept the sex cult part away from her. But she knew he was involved sexually with many of the young, vulnerable women in the group over the years. Including her own daughter, right? Isn't Keith the father of Lauren's child? Maybe I'm misremembering. Also, her business was set up as a pyramid scheme and her program required people to provide blackmail material, so she's definitely trying to fool us. Expand As I understand it, only DOS required the blackmail material and she was assured by both her daughter and Keith that it was just a women’s group and nothing nefarious was happening there 1 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7718731
Armchair Critic October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 (edited) On 10/25/2022 at 4:13 AM, izabella said: Isn't Keith the father of Lauren's child? Expand There was a woman named Kristin who had Keith's child. But I do remember Keith leading Lauren on saying he would commit to Lauren and have a child with her if she jumped through certain hoops but sounds like he had no intentions of doing it. Lauren was the one recruiting slaves for DOS and was with Keith until the end, she was with him in Mexico when he got arrested. Edited October 25, 2022 by Armchair Critic 1 1 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7718755
Door County Cherry October 25, 2022 Author Share October 25, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 1:07 AM, Armchair Critic said: Wasn't it actually Nippy's wife Sarah who was part of the secret group and was blackmailing them with their "collateral"? I think Mark and Sarah were sweating it because they were worried about how much they were complicit was going to come out. Expand Sarah enrolled people to NXVIM but I don't think she enrolled to DOS. Sarah was invited into the secret group/DOS but I don't think (I can't remember) that she made it to the Master level. zShe gave collateral and she got branded but wasn't involved sexually with Keith. I think he probably considered her off limits because she was married to an active male member of the group. Getting sexually involved with a member's wife would have invited problems sooner. But it has been a while since I saw the first part. On 10/25/2022 at 3:10 AM, DanaK said: Part of the creed of NXIVM that was recited was “There are no ultimate victims; therefore, I will not choose to be a victim”. Expand And yet didn't Nancy sound like quite the victim in her interview? Sarah's phone call was horrible! DOS took down my business. All I wanted to do was help. Then she had the audacity to claim she didn't know why things were going sideways. Maybe she should have called Sarah back? 3 1 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7718757
kathe5133 October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 Nancy is a liar. It's been said she was sleeping with Keith too, though I doubt she'd admit to that now. Sarah was angry when she left that message. If Nancy truly felt that Sarah was like a daughter to her (it's been said she'd said that on more than a few occasions) wouldn't she still want to call her back to see what made her so angry? Someone doesn't go from trusted friend to enemy based on one angry phone message. She's lying her ass off. The only good thing about her lying is perhaps she does feel some shame? But for the most part, it's an act. 1 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7718927
merylinkid October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 If someone requires blackmail material from you in order to trust you, you shouldn't trust them. Pretty sure the main cult required blackmail material too in order to move up the ranks of the cult. DOS just carried the idea further. The women who still believe in Keith and what he was pedaling are still indoctrinated. They blame everyone BUT Keith for what happened. Not sure HOW Keith managed to suck so many people in. He had no new ideas (including the one that he was somehow special and smarter than everyone else), just spewed out word salads and wasn't all that good looking. 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7718932
javajeanelaine October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 May be sleep deprivation and lack of food got these women to buy into Keith’s word salads? 3 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7719090
izabella October 25, 2022 Share October 25, 2022 (edited) On 10/25/2022 at 2:38 PM, javajeanelaine said: May be sleep deprivation and lack of food got these women to buy into Keith’s word salads? Expand They were vulnerable to manipulation. Just seeking out something like this program means they felt some kind of unhappiness and vulnerability in their lives. Then Keith made them more vulnerable, took all their money, had them provide blackmail material, isolated them from family and friends and told them those people were suppressives and therefore not to be trusted. He saw them as easy marks and open wallets. Edited October 25, 2022 by izabella 1 4 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7719107
sistermagpie October 26, 2022 Share October 26, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 2:38 PM, javajeanelaine said: May be sleep deprivation and lack of food got these women to buy into Keith’s word salads? Expand On 10/25/2022 at 2:50 PM, izabella said: They were vulnerable to manipulation. Just seeking out something like this program means they felt some kind of unhappiness and vulnerability in their lives. Then Keith made them more vulnerable, took all their money, had them provide blackmail material, isolated them from family and friends and told them those people were suppressives and therefore not to be trusted. He saw them as easy marks and open wallets. Expand But the sleep deprivation and lack of food helped too! 1 2 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7719916
Cheezwiz October 26, 2022 Share October 26, 2022 I had a hard time watching the first episode, and honestly wanted to turn it off. I can't stand either Mark or Sarah - they seem really self-serving, and I feel like they've used this documentary to cover up their own complicity and misdeeds. I didn't know Sarah had been busy merching herself, so she's even more repugnant to me. As for the rest of the people interviewed in the episode, the entire time I just wanted to scream "GOOD GOD, YOU PEOPLE ARE TOTAL MORONS!!!". Ack, that dazed euphoric look on both Nancy Salzman & Alison Mack's faces in the footage of them speaking with Keith. All for a word-salad spewing dweeb. I will never understand it. Not sure if I can sit through the rest. 1 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7720246
merylinkid October 26, 2022 Share October 26, 2022 Okay they were vulnerable to manipulation by why KEITH? before he took their money and deprived them of food and sleep, and demanded collateral, they had to fall for his line. The sleep deprivation and lack of food only came AFTER they agreed to follow his "plan." While you had eaten a good meal and had a good night's sleep he was still a not good looking guy who just talked a lot. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7720402
violet and green October 26, 2022 Share October 26, 2022 I can never get over his tiny little hands waving around. He did look like more of a good cult leader when he had his hair long, but nothing he says in his earnest wise teacher mode ever makes any sense. I think, God love them, his followers just aren't very bright. 1 8 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7720450
luckyroll3 October 26, 2022 Share October 26, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 2:48 AM, DanaK said: It seems clear to me that Nancy is fooling herself or trying to fool viewers when she says the bad stuff was not part of her business and the business did a lot of good. If you convince people that abuse is something made up or you are the cause of your problems and to tamp down on your fear intuition, it’s ripe for abuse and allows groups like NXIVM to take advantage of you and suck you in Expand This. And even if the 2 programs were completely separate, as she claims (which I don't believe), then she's willfully ignoring that her program was used deliberately as a recruiting ground for DOS and that there are aspects of the program that made the participants, particularly the women, vulnerable to manipulation. 2 5 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7720502
EtheltoTillie October 26, 2022 Share October 26, 2022 Adding to my earlier post about copying Scientology, the blackmail stuff also comes from Scientology. As I understand it, the info they used to get from the auditing sessions was held over people’s heads as blackmail. 1 6 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7720649
Cheezwiz October 26, 2022 Share October 26, 2022 On 10/26/2022 at 3:33 PM, EtheltoTillie said: Adding to my earlier post about copying Scientology, the blackmail stuff also comes from Scientology. As I understand it, the info they used to get from the auditing sessions was held over people’s heads as blackmail. Expand Yep, he basically ripped off a whole bunch of Scientology's moves and repackaged them into a Corporate success program. It blows my mind how dim-witted his followers were (and in some cases still are). I still haven't watched Episode 2 with the Salzman interview. I'm finding I don't have the patience I did for the first season of the series. 3 Link to comment https://forums.primetimer.com/topic/111223-the-vow/page/14/#findComment-7721121
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