S02.E05: Put The Damage On

[maraleia]

Amanda is terrorised by a stalker but the true reasons behind her frightening experiences have far reaching ramifications not only for her but for Pottinger and Doc Yewll as well.

[wanderingstar]

Enjoyed all things Rafe/Tarr family. That's going to be an interesting dynamic as the season continues to unfold.

 

I wasn't really following everything with the ego chip. Did it originate with the Indogenes during the war? Why does Pottinger want Amanda to have one? And why does he have one? 

 

Doc Yewll continues to intrigue me. 

 

Not enough Irisa in this episode for me - or the last one for that matter.

 

Wondering if this episode's title is taken from Tori Amos' song "Putting the Damage On" (which is a great song). 

Edited July 18, 2014 by Gillian Rosh

[Chaos Theory]

And there my friends I present to you the gayest episode of Defiance yet.  

 

This is your mind on drugs....and crazy Voltan experiments any questions?

 

Doc Yewll continues to be one of the best characters on this show.  She is funny, sad, with a bit of dark history we have only begun to see.

 

Pottinger...oh Pottinger you have been a bad little arch villain, haven;t you?

 

My favorite scene however was between Rafe and Stahma in the bath and then with the Tarrs and the McCawleys in the Tarr house when he tried to get back in with his family.  Those were some classic scenes.  Actually now that you mention it, this has been my favorite episode so far this season.  

[Mabinogia]

Seems like Pottinger wasn't after Amanda's body all this time but some knowledge she has. My understanding was that he thinks she knows something that he wants to know. So he implanted the ego chip which somehow recorded her brain/thoughts/memories? I do like the twist that he wasn't perving on her but actually after something she knows. Well played show.

 

Rafe's bath was priceless. Curious about Christie and the DJ girl. What was DJ girl wanting Christie to join her in? I didn't quite get that.

[SimoneS]

I was enjoying the Rafe/Tarr family dynamic until Stahma accepted Datak back. Rafe's reaction to Stahma in the bath was hilarious. I cracked up when he told Datak that he had borrowed his slippers and hoped that it was okay. Rafe needs to be careful because Datak's scheming with the Voltan Collective is bound to backfire.

 

Pottinger is such a weirdo. He was obsessed with Connor so he is trying to get Amanda.

 

Yewll is always up to something and can never be trusted. Nolan is already suspicious about why she was released. It won't take him long to figure out that she was involved with implanting that thing in Amanda.

Edited July 18, 2014 by SimoneS

[johntfs]

Seems like Pottinger wasn't after Amanda's body all this time but some knowledge she has. My understanding was that he thinks she knows something that he wants to know. So he implanted the ego chip which somehow recorded her brain/thoughts/memories? I do like the twist that he wasn't perving on her but actually after something she knows. Well played show.

 

I'm not so sure about that.  There is some seriously hinky schtacko going down with Pottinger.  I'm wondering if it'll turn out that Pottinger is another Indogene clone/modification.  One of his memory flashes included being surrounded by Indogenes, didn't it?

[SimoneS]

Yes, Pottinger's memories included being experimented on by the Indogenes suggesting that his memories about being raped are false or implanted to hide the truth. Yewll clearly knows this and probably manipulated the memories that she told him that she uploaded.

 

Pottinger does want Amanda's body. I suspect in part because she was once Connor's.

[BestestAuntEver]

This show is running on all cylinders. I don't even like Julie Benz/Amanda yet I was interested & wanted to know WTH was going on.

Loved Christie's continued anger with Datak. I didn't understand everything between Christie & the DJ either.

Tonight's episode was the first time I've been truly intrigued by Pottinger. His obsession with Amanda isn't as cut & dry as I thought.

Doc Yewll. Great character with an even more amazing background. I'm pulled in further each time they show another layer the character & her past.

[Chaos Theory]

It looks like Pottinger had a crush on Connor and was obsessed with him . He followed Connor to NY. Connor may actually be the reason Pottinger is in Defiance. Didn't GhostConnor say something about Pottinger not believing the story about Connors death. It is possible he came to Defiance to solve his obsessions murder.....and in the process gets a new one, Ananda.

[thuganomics85]

Yeah, they sure did take this Pottinger story-line, and went in a direction I wasn't certainly expecting.  So, if I understood his hallucination correctly, he actually had a crush on Connor, Amanda's ex?  Hmm.... and he actually wants Amanda's memories/knowledge, and isn't just after her for a hook-up.  Interesting.  I'm really curious about how he got himself in this position, because I would have to think he wasn't just randomly selected as the Mayor, but had to pave his own way to get there.  Really curious about him now.

 

All the stuff involving the EGO was confusing, but I think I got a decent sense of it.  All the stuff with Doc Yewll was fascinating to watch. She really did some horrible things back then, to say the least.  But, I'm glad she didn't take the easy way out, and refused to take her own life, and sees being alive and Defiance's doctor as a penance.  But, she clearly is haunted over the stuff she did, which makes total sense.

 

Rafe joining the Tarr family was hilarious at first, but that also got serious soon.  Besides Stahma not forgetting Rafe beat up Alak in S1 (plus, his threat in an earlier episode), Datak shows up busting out some Castithian speech, that makes Stahma accept him back?  That was a bit confusing.  It doesn't sound like he's going to be the head of family anymore and Stahma didn't look happy about it, but he will be involved in the family, somehow?  What was interesting was Christie really finding her voice and flat-out telling Datak off.  Like Alak, she's gotten more interesting this season as well.  Not sure what to make of that scene between her and the new DJ, yet.

 

Nolan and Irisa mainly were around to deal with Amanda's issues, although we saw another glimpse of Irisa's Wolverine-like healing powers, so that's still in play.  And, I'm going to guess both Nolan and Amanda still want to know who planted that device in Amanda.

[SimoneS]

I could not remember how Connor died so I did some online research. Datak better pray that Pottinger does not find out that he killed Connor.

[sjohnson]

Irathient male prostitutes have a beard like Bluto in old Popeye cartoons? They really are aliens! And they're Votan spies too.

Are indogenes all female? Are they just friends who reproduce by budding or what?

Pottinger is an evil homo perv? 

 

I'm not quite sure what's up with the anti-Gay Pride theme but it's really peculiar how Pottinger and Yewll get schooled in the truth while Amanda gets lied to.

[BungalowSummer]

What does it say about the E-Rep when one of the Votanis Collective's spies in Defiance is an Irathient male prostitute at the NeedWant?

Rafe's bath time with Stahma was one of the funniest scenes ever and then they topped it when Datak showed up to make amends. I'm so happy that we're finally getting some solid scenes with Graham Greene. He stole every scene with Stahma and Datak.

We have some interesting alignments shaping up. If Rafe and his miners join forces with Datak and the Votan races in Defiant against the E-Rep, Rafe should be aware that he'll be working to advance the Votanis Collective against Rafe's ultimate interests as a human being.

Meanwhile, Doc Yewll seems willing to renounce any Votan loyalties to help Pottinger and the E-Rep, although with Yewll there's always a deeper game and personal agenda. Her tragic lost love was touching until we were reminded that Yewll was a literal Dr. Mengele and her lover was Mrs. Dr. Mengele.

There were a lot of clues and bits of info woven into this episode. Pottinger's EGO hallucinations included flashes of the stained glass and then a glimpse of Indogenes bending over him as if he's on an operating table. Is he another Indogene science experiment?

ETA: not all Indogenes are female. Amanda's assistant in the pilot was an Indogene male, Ben Darris, the guy who plotted with Nikki, murdered Rafe's older son and took down the stasis net.

[GaT]

I was kind of bored by this episode. I liked Rafe & Stahma in the bath, but Amanda, Pottinger, &  Yewll's hallucinations just bored me. 

[johntfs]

Yeah, they sure did take this Pottinger story-line, and went in a direction I wasn't certainly expecting.  So, if I understood his hallucination correctly, he actually had a crush on Connor, Amanda's ex?  Hmm.... and he actually wants Amanda's memories/knowledge, and isn't just after her for a hook-up.  Interesting.  I'm really curious about how he got himself in this position, because I would have to think he wasn't just randomly selected as the Mayor, but had to pave his own way to get there.  Really curious about him now.

 

Actually, this episode explains a lot about the Mayor, why he's here and what he wants with Amanda.  He loved Conner from afar or some such.  Conner went to Defiance, where his ex-fiance was and died there.  Isn't it highly likely that Amanda was involved in Conner's death?  Amanda isn't really Pottinger's "crush," she's his primary murder suspect.  He's grabbed her memories to find out how she murdered Conner.  Of course, she didn't murder Conner, but her memories will show Conner and Nolan, her current lover, going off into the badlands to get the medicine.  Which will make Nolan Pottinger's next prime suspect.

[HeySandyStrange]

Overall an intriguing episode. Bring on the Rafe/Datak allience.  Those two grumps working together is made of win.  Graham Greene was great this episode. I liked the fact Christie was finally getting her voice and I hope that means she will stop bowing down to her in-laws and start appreciating her own heritage.  I can't wait to find out what her and DJ girl are getting into.

 

 

Her tragic lost love was touching until we were reminded that Yewll was a literal Dr. Mengele and her lover was Mrs. Dr. Mengele.

 

I find this is what makes her interesting.  Otherwise, she would just be the wise-cracking doctor. And at least she and her dead lover did show regret about the horrible things they did. Though, of course, I am waiting for the doors being blown on the Indogene secret and cause all kinds of new anger between the humans/votans.

[Chaos Theory]

People with pasts are interesting especially dark ones and so far Yewll's past has been played perfectly.

[SimoneS]

I'm not quite sure what's up with the anti-Gay Pride theme but it's really peculiar how Pottinger and Yewll get schooled in the truth while Amanda gets lied to.

 

I don't think that your anti-Gay interpretation is correct. Pottinger and Amanda faced past traumas in their hallucinations. He came close to remembering the Indogene experimentation and she relived her rape. They also both faced their secret fears. His was that Connor knew about his crush, considered him a pervert, and ridiculed him behind his back. Amanda's fear was that she is not as loving and caring as Kenya and that Nolan does not care about her and only wants her for sex because she is damaged goods. Yewll faced the guilt of her genocidal past and her ex-lover's suicide. So the only one who got any truth was Yewell, both Pottinger and Amanda were just further traumatized by their dark pasts and fears. 

 

Actually, this episode explains a lot about the Mayor, why he's here and what he wants with Amanda.  He loved Conner from afar or some such.  Conner went to Defiance, where his ex-fiance was and died there.  Isn't it highly likely that Amanda was involved in Conner's death?  Amanda isn't really Pottinger's "crush," she's his primary murder suspect.  He's grabbed her memories to find out how she murdered Conner.  Of course, she didn't murder Conner, but her memories will show Conner and Nolan, her current lover, going off into the badlands to get the medicine.  Which will make Nolan Pottinger's next prime suspect.

 

Except in his hallucination, Connor confirms that Pottinger thinks that by having Amanda that he can be Conner. Also, Pottinger was actually shocked when Connor said that the story about his death was a lie. It is hard to know what is going on, but this does suggest that Pottinger wanted Amanda's memories of Connor so that he could create this relationship with Amanda or maybe for some other info. However, now that he has this new hint that the story about how Connor was murdered was fabricated that Pottinger might start trying to find out the truth.

[CletusMusashi]

I'm getting tired of watching people hallucinate. The Yewll stuff was kind of interesting, but ultimately this whole episode was just a bunch of extraploation.

A whole episode of characters talking to dead people? Babylon 5 already did that. It's not even a new thing for this show. They were doing it early last season with Rafe's son. At this point, all it's doing is broadcasting:

a. How little death actually means on this show, character-wise, and

b. How inevitabe it is that we'll see Kenya again.

[Izeinwinter]

It's funny, but in season one, the Alak/Christie plot kind of.. didn't interest me much. But now, I just love Christie to bits. Fierce little lovely. "He deserves a raise" "Disgusting troll". So wonderfully honest.

The new DJ is.. Kind of horny? Of the opinion Alanis failed to spot a golden opportunity when presented with it on a golden platter? Explaining ruins the joke, but it is a reference to the song ironic.  "Meet the man of my dreams, meet his beautiful wife. EPIC WIN!"

So the mayor wasn't spying on Amanda to sleep with her, he's sleeping with her to spy on her. Did not see that coming.

 

We can all agree that the accidental exposure that got the mayor was no such thing? The process copies memories, the doc wanted insurance against being thrown back in the slammer. 

 

I am pretty darn sure we will see Mia Kirsner again. I figure it will not actually be Kenya, but the ship mind piloting a construct. Because I dont see when it could have gotten to her. 

Edited July 18, 2014 by Izeinwinter

[johntfs]

I'm getting tired of watching people hallucinate. The Yewll stuff was kind of interesting, but ultimately this whole episode was just a bunch of extraploation.

A whole episode of characters talking to dead people? Babylon 5 already did that. It's not even a new thing for this show. They were doing it early last season with Rafe's son. At this point, all it's doing is broadcasting:

a. How little death actually means on this show, character-wise, and

b. How inevitabe it is that we'll see Kenya again.

Yes, sixteen years ago another show did something similar to what this show did.  So what?  There's only thirty-six dramatic situations that exist in narrative fiction.  That's any fiction in any genre.  Any story you see on movie screen, read in a book, watch on TV, etc will fit into one of those thirty-six situations.  Hell, your basic high school English class tells you that there's only three types of story/conflict: Man vs. Nature, Man vs. Man and Man vs. Himself.  There will never, ever be anything truly new that can be done.

 

Meanwhile, the hallucinations by Pottinger and Yewll gave us considerable insight into those characters in a way that probably could not have been easily done in other ways.  Yewll's not going to bare her soul about the lost love she had while she committed atrocities and Pottinger certainly isn't going to tell anyone about the crush he had on Conner Lang.  Flashbacks are possible (and may yet come), but I'd rather they save flashbacks to illuminate things like the Pale Wars and the like.

 

And if Mia Kirshner comes back as a guest star, I'm perfectly fine with that.

[wanderingstar]

I hope Kenya doesn't return. I don't miss her.

[GaT]

I'm getting tired of watching people hallucinate. The Yewll stuff was kind of interesting, but ultimately this whole episode was just a bunch of extraploation.

A whole episode of characters talking to dead people? Babylon 5 already did that. It's not even a new thing for this show. They were doing it early last season with Rafe's son. At this point, all it's doing is broadcasting:

a. How little death actually means on this show, character-wise, and

b. How inevitabe it is that we'll see Kenya again.

 

 

Yes, sixteen years ago another show did something similar to what this show did.  So what?  There's only thirty-six dramatic situations that exist in narrative fiction.  That's any fiction in any genre.  Any story you see on movie screen, read in a book, watch on TV, etc will fit into one of those thirty-six situations.  Hell, your basic high school English class tells you that there's only three types of story/conflict: Man vs. Nature, Man vs. Man and Man vs. Himself.  There will never, ever be anything truly new that can be done.

 

Meanwhile, the hallucinations by Pottinger and Yewll gave us considerable insight into those characters in a way that probably could not have been easily done in other ways.  Yewll's not going to bare her soul about the lost love she had while she committed atrocities and Pottinger certainly isn't going to tell anyone about the crush he had on Conner Lang.  Flashbacks are possible (and may yet come), but I'd rather they save flashbacks to illuminate things like the Pale Wars and the like.

 

And if Mia Kirshner comes back as a guest star, I'm perfectly fine with that.

Also, Buffy the Vampire Slayer did the same thing with dead people, the episode was called "Conversations with Dead People". Buffy did it better.

[sjohnson]

Yewll deliberately contaminating Pottinger is an intriguing  and attractive idea. That means her self contamination is even stranger, though. Also, I'm not sure how any Pottinger memories serve as serious blackmail material, especially if Pottinger doesn't know they exist. I would have thought Yewll would have to admit they exist in order to threaten Pottinger with anything. 

 

Nolan thinks Pottinger is a joke, which means dead Connor Lang is saying the truth when he said people laughed at him. Also, we've already seen Pottinger's pervy spying ways, so that's true too. 

 

But I doubt that the writers intended anything by all the sexually ambiguous characters in this episode running the gamut from sinister to villainous. I'm sure it just seemed cooler that way, just as the comedic high point with Stahma playing Rafe (hand job? or goosing/prostate exam?) seemed funnier.

[Izeinwinter]

Not all of them were villains, anyway- The DJ doesn't appear to have an agenda beyond "Hot boss, Boss's hot wife. Want". 

[GaT]

Yewll deliberately contaminating Pottinger is an intriguing  and attractive idea. That means her self contamination is even stranger, though. Also, I'm not sure how any Pottinger memories serve as serious blackmail material, especially if Pottinger doesn't know they exist. I would have thought Yewll would have to admit they exist in order to threaten Pottinger with anything. 

 

 

 

Since she didn't remember that Mrs Dr Yewll killed herself, it seems like she's missing some memories. Maybe she contaminated herself because she realized she was missing memories, & thought she could get them back by downloading them.

[Grammaeryn]

Okay, can I ask a really dumb question? The whole Pottinger being trapped in the church with students when the Votans came story confuses me. I thought it was implied he was raped either by fellow students or Votans. The whole being held down with glass cutting his hands was my clue but I might be wrong. It sounds like Connor was there and comforted him. Since it seems like Pottinger was obsessed with Connor and followed him to New York, I think the whole Pottinger=rapist theory has some legs. Oh geez... Amanda admitted she aborted his baby to his face (unknowingly of course)! I'll stop.  Too many years watching soaps. If those memory implants weren't for finding a particular memory, I bet there could be enough material for blackmail to keep Amanda under the E-rep's thumb. Tommy has really been handed the idiot stick lately. Sure hand a paranoid scared woman a gun.

 

I have to say, this season is so much better than last season! I keep episodes on my DVR for re-watching. 

[Cardie]

"Your breath is very Irathient." Datak and Yewll must have bonded over their ability to snark--or maybe willingness to kill and torture lots of people. At least Yewll seems repentant.

 

I took the explanation of the Ego casting off little bits that infected Yewll and Pottinger at face value. She certainly didn't seem to know immediately what was going on in her head. But without full info on how Pottinger was affected by the Indogene experiments, it's hard to know what her endgame is in cooperating with him.

 

Pottinger was sincerely in love with Connor, I believe. Whether this has caused him to be close to Amanda because she was close to Connor or means that his interest in her is not at all sexual also remains to be seen.

[Tippi Blevins]

I think Datak should form all his alliances under the guise of looking for sex. Everybody already knows he's a rampant horndog, so if he just went around pretending to bone people nobody would ever realize he was secretly plotting against the E-Rep. 

 

That drug is so weird. It seems so inefficient to suck up the vapors from a spoon with a straw. Why not use a crack pipe? 

[Latverian Diplomat]

I wasn't really following everything with the ego chip. Did it originate with the Indogenes during the war? Why does Pottinger want Amanda to have one? And why does he have one? 

 

Doc Yewll continues to intrigue me. 

 

 

It does seem to be Indogene tech. It's apparently contagious in a nanotech magic kind of way if not installed under proper conditions (and it wasn't installed under proper conditions). So Doc Yewll and Pottinger both end up with one also, which was also defective (causing hallucinations) like the original one they put in Amanda. I don't think this was deliberate.

 

Pottinger apparently wanted some piece of information Amanda knows.

 

Doc Yewll didn't remember her friend's suicide because  "her logical Indogene mind" suppressed that memory when it was contradicted by seeing her friend alive again. That's an interesting door to open, if they would like to walk through it and really explore how Indogenes might think in very different ways than humans, I would be fine with that. But I suspect it was just an authorial contrivance to postpone the revelation that Doc Yewll was also hallucinating.

Edited July 19, 2014 by Latverian Diplomat

[shapeshifter]

I'm wondering if Stahma took Datak back in part either because she figured with Rafe in the house, Datak wouldn't drown anyone at bath time, or, if in part because she wanted to keep the human to Tarr ratio in her favor, or even if she wanted a strong male to keep Rafe in check. I'm probably overthinking this, and the writers just wanted more fun drama in the bath tub, which is generally good viewing for us.

Interesting that this episode was so polarizing. I thought it was intriguing.

When Amanda put down her crack pipe at the end, the episode took on a bit of a PSA tone.

I'm guessing Pottinger was keeping Amanda stoned and spying on her in hopes that it would trigger some memories that he wants to know about. Something she witnessed.

Was it just me, or did Irisa seem to be interested in the Irathient guy who worked at the Need Want? It's hard to tell with the prosthesis makeup.

Interesting that Nolan acknowledged he didn't die when he should have.

[BungalowSummer]

 

did Irisa seem to be interested in the Irathient guy who worked at the Need Want?

She was definitely interested. Not, I think, in him personally but she was filing away the fact that he fought in the Pale Wars. She's made him as a VC spy. Is he now on the list for getting filamentized?

 

One look at Stahma's face when she gave Datak his absolution told the story: She hated the idea of letting him back in the house but as she said, "There are laws." I guess she feels she can go only so far in bending Castithan traditions before she looks like she's deliberately sabotaging Datak (which of course she is!). Up to now, she's had the excuse that he screwed the pooch, wound up in prison and she had no choice but to take over the business given Alak's inexperience. When he lost control with his vengeance, he validated her takeover. When he showed what looked like genuine contrition complete with blood and religious trappings, Stahma was outmaneuvered and had to let him back in his own house, even if it's just to visit.

 

 

I'm guessing Pottinger was keeping Amanda stoned and spying on her in hopes that it would trigger some memories that he wants to know about. Something she witnessed.

If we take his hallucinations as a window into his thinking, Pottinger has some suspicion that the official explanation for Connor's murder is not factual and he's right. If that's one of the things he's digging into (and I think he's got a lot of irons in the fire), he may well start to suspect Nolan and/or Datak.

 

Pottinger has become the most intriguing character in Defiance. Every time we think we've got a handle on what he's doing, there's another little wrinkle added.

--Pottinger is hot for Amanda and he's a pervy peeping tom. Well, maybe not...

--Pottinger was raped by Votans. Well, maybe it was more than that...

--He was an acquaintance of Connor's from New York. Wait, it was a whole lot more than that...

--He's an up-and-coming E-Rep guy. Except maybe he's another disguised Votan experiment...

 

I'd like to know what he thinks he'll learn from Amanda's memories. Are these memories of the past, or short-term memories of what she did over the past several weeks? Whichever it is, it is Doc Yewll who has compiled them and she assured Pottinger that they now can proceed to "the next step." Now what, do you suppose, is that? Does it have anything to do with the Kaziri and the heavy mining equipment?

Edited July 19, 2014 by BungalowSummer

[Izeinwinter]

A lot of the world building isn't really spelled out - but there are things we can guess at based on what is shown. The need/want has a /lot/ more male prostitutes than any brothel in the pre-contact era would have, and the E-rep felt it necessary to legalize marriages with more than two participants. Heck, the fact that Datak can use visiting a male prostitute as a cover for a covert meeting without worrying about it raising any flags. is pretty telling. 

 

At a guess, I think this means that at least some of the Votan races went in for bigger family units than we do, possibly as the standard form of the union, and at a minimum, frequently enough not to be noteworthy - and default to bisexuality because that makes such unions more stable. 

 

It isn't the only option, I mean, for all we know,someone invented the "You now find all healthy adult sapients sexually attractive" pill, and it got poured into the water as an attempt at chemical social engineering. (Peace through sex!) 

 

I don't think the good doctor would be in on a plan to dig out the ship - she explicitly said while in prison that she would rather stay there than have anything further to do with that hornet nest. Still, it is either the ship, the nuke plant, or the ore. Nothing else below the town worth digging for, is there?

[kieyra]

Wondering if this episode's title is taken from Tori Amos' song "Putting the Damage On" (which is a great song). 

 

I've been assuming so, but I've never heard that phrase outside of that song, and a lot of the other episode titles seem to be direct song titles or at least close references to them. 

[kb3]

I interpreted it as Datak having "visitation" with the soon-to-be grandchild, protecting his bloodline, not being welcomed back into the house.

 

 

[lawless]

I'd like to know what he thinks he'll learn from Amanda's memories.

Well, I sure didn't think I'd care when this character was first introduced, but now I really want to know too.  I guess I wouldn't say Pottinger "won me over" this episode, in that he's still a selfish, ruthless, sanctity-of-one's-own-mind-violating climber, but when he was hallucinating Connor, I don't know, it's like we had a moment with him.  The actor is a lot better and more nuanced than I had suspected.  I think it was in that moment when he asked Connor if he laughed at him Pottinger's face, argh, he got to me.  He's still not a very good guy, and probably in many respects a bad guy, who manipulates Amanda with drugs and now dangerous memory-stealing equipment, which was a violation of the dignity and privacy of her very thoughts.  But . . . it doesn't just seem to be because he's a perv who is crushing on her. 

 

Seeing his thoughts, which included doubt, vulnerability, and self-loathing, was very interesting, and made him somewhat sympathetic, at least briefly.  We now know that he had a thing for Connor, and that unconsciously he's dubious about the reports as to how Connor died.  Those suspicions now seem to have made it to the forefront of his mind.  I wonder if he's not merely enthralled by Amanda, but if he maybe, kinda, suspects her possibly of having something to do with Connor's death, and is searching her memories for that reason.  Probably not, more likely he knows there's something important in the town and is just mining her memories for information about it, but the storyline is more intricate now, at least enough to wonder.  I was painfully embarrassed for Pottinger about his young schoolboy crush on Connor, Pottinger remembering Connor holding him (I guess during that siege in the Church), but also seeming to understand that Connor apparently barely knew him and that he had probably made a fool of himself over Connor.  It was so sadly human and young.  I wasn't sure though if Pottinger gave Connor the watch before the episode in the Church, making it an embarrassingly inappropriate gift given Pottinger's apparent one-sided affection for Connor, or after the siege in the Church (after the "holding" thing), which would make the gift somewhat less inappropriate, but still inappropriate given that the holding thing apparently meant a lot more to Pottinger than to Connor.  Sigh.  Pottinger's feelings were so painfully human, and he was so uncharacteristically earnest about them, instead of his usual manipulative self.  So, there was a window where I cared about him. 

 

But then the reveal about implanting the Ego thing into Amanda, and he was back to the creep I dislike.  However . . . at least now I wonder if his motives in spying on Amanda will mitigate the wrongness of what he is doing -- not make it acceptable!  Just mitigate.  I guess we'll see, and now I'll enjoy watching him more because I'm looking for clues.

 

Another little bit that I loved was Tommy arguing with Irissa about Nolan, making a valid complaint about Nolan's behavior, and telling her "but you just keep defending him," to which she immediately and vehemently responded with "to the death!"  Hee!  It epitomized a dynamic in their relationship that I think is one of their significant problems, but also one of the charms.  Tommy will have what he thinks is a "normal" disagreement with Irissa in which there are unspoken limits and understandings as to the stakes of what he is discussing, which are consistent with our understanding of the limits and stakes of such a conversation, because he is a decent, civilized person.  And then Irissa will respond by taking things quickly and unequivocally to matters of life and death.  But not because she's being dramatic or self-important -- it's because that's what her life experiences have done to her perception of normal.  It's both comical and a little sad.  I also like that it's always been this way, and it troubles Tommy, but he was willing to hang in there with her and try to bring her solace and safety, until she left him.   

 

ETA:  Given what Amanda revealed about her rape, and given that Kenya just disappeared, does anyone think she's been driven to drug use because lack of control is a trigger for emotional trauma for her?  It's not just the cumulative stress of everything these people have had to deal with or simple grief about her sister, but also the rape she coped with entirely by herself in secret, and now the disappearance of her sister -- a shocking situation she doesn't have enough information to understand and which she cannot control -- that drove her to Adreno?

Edited July 20, 2014 by lawless

[shapeshifter]

ETA:  Given what Amanda revealed about her rape, and given that Kenya just disappeared, does anyone think she's been driven to drug use because lack of control is a trigger for emotional trauma for her?  It's not just the cumulative stress of everything these people have had to deal with or simple grief about her sister, but also the rape she coped with entirely by herself in secret, and now the disappearance of her sister -- a shocking situation she doesn't have enough information to understand and which she cannot control -- that drove her to Adreno?

Now that you mention it, I'm guessing instead that protecting Kenya was how she dealt with the rape PTSD, and now that Kenya's gone, so is her coping mechanism.

[sjohnson]

It's not unheard of for mature people to develop a chemical dependency. But it isn't very common, which makes Amanda's late-life discovery relatively implausible. 

And I think it's particularly hard to believe that Amanda isn't aware that there's a problem. And it's especially hard to believe adreeno has no ill consequences in daily life, although Pottinger has an agenda that might make him overlook any failures in her job performance. Insofar as it really is a job?

 

I've been thinking about how Stahma doesn't care when McCawley brutalizes Alak. This shows she only used Datak's assault on Alak as justification to win over Alak and the gang (who surely would like Alak's effort to protect them better than Datak's firm hand) and even Christie to her side. She either has no strong feelings for Alak, or she's just manipulating McCawley. ("Manipulating"....No, DON'T go there!)

[Mabinogia]

I wonder if he's not merely enthralled by Amanda, but if he maybe, kinda, suspects her possibly of having something to do with Connor's death, and is searching her memories for that reason

Actually, if he did think she had something to do with Connor's death, it would justify, at least in his mind, the things he is doing to her. He could hand wave the spying, invading her privacy and worse, enabling her drug habit if he thinks he is doing this to the person who caused Connor's death. That could be an interesting plot if they go there. If not, he's a bastard for doing this to an innocent person. Of course, he could also be justifying it through jealousy since this is the woman who won Connor's heart.

I do agree, that this episode has made Pottinger a whole lot more interesting.

[BungalowSummer]

This episode also made Amanda a lot more interesting. The confrontation and speech from Nolan that she hallucinated tells us that she thinks of herself as "damaged goods," unloveable, unfeeling and caring for no one. She thinks Nolan is the same. Her coping mechanisms of detachment and control have failed her catastrophically and contributed to her downfall.

I think it's interesting that Amanda also seems to subconsciously equate Nolan with her rapist. She's started to recoil from his touch. Even before the alley hallucination, in which she imagines Nolan quoting the rapist, the attacker in her vision seemed to have Nolan's eyes and voice. It was so quick, but definitely suggestive of Nolan -- as well as Pottinger. They both have blue eyes.

I wasn't sure though if Pottinger gave Connor the watch before the episode in the Church, making it an embarrassingly inappropriate gift given Pottinger's apparent one-sided affection for Connor, or after the siege in the Church (after the "holding" thing), which would make the gift somewhat less inappropriate, but still inappropriate given that the holding thing apparently meant a lot more to Pottinger than to Connor.

I agree that the sequence of Pottinger's memories was confusing, deliberately so. Pottinger suspects his involvement with Amanda was an attempt to actually be Connor, and that takes me right back to the awful speculation that Pottinger was Amanda's attacker. It's possible that he followed Connor to NY, stalked Connor and found him engaged to Amanda and raped her in some addled and perverted hero worship. Then when the engagement fell apart, Pottinger felt some remorse and responsibility and gave Connor the rare watch as some twisted kind of compensation.

Edited July 20, 2014 by BungalowSummer

[jhlipton]

I too loved the scene with Rafe in the tub. When Stahma comes in , his reaction bounds from AWWWWWWWKward! to "I could get used to this" pretty quickly.

When I first started watching, I thought this was going to be rather silly "Humans vs Aliens" show (it is SyFy after all), but it has an amazing amount of depth, and great acting.

[Cardie]

Yewll's dead girlfriend mentioned something about cutting children open. I wonder if the two of them were in that church and Pottinger was under their scalpel.

[Ottis]

Interesting that Nolan acknowledged he didn't die when he should have.

 

 

That seemed to come out of nowhere, and also seemed to be asking for it.

 

This show has gone from one I briefly stopped watching to one that intrigues me. The "why" as to why certain people were having hallucinations was unclear to me rup until near the end, and Doc Yewell's hallucination seemed real except for a few comments that made no sense (for a few minutes there, I thought the show had some kind of script writing seizure, because what we saw and what he heard didn't match). It made sense at the end, and it really started feeling very Farscapey.

[AV8n]

The bath scene with Rafe and Stahma was priceless.  Nice of the show to let us in on why she wears that metal bathing suit - and not admit that it's because this is SyFy not HBO.

 

Christie's pregnancy has also got me intrigued, in that her child will be the only hybrid we have seen on the show - and it was conceived without any apparent assistance.  You'd think that in 3 or 4 decades of Votan presence on Earth, this would have happened before.  Heck, why aren't there any Casti/Irathient hybrids - especially with people like Datak spreading their seed?

[BungalowSummer]

Just going by blood, I think a human-Castithan hybrid must be unusual. Castithan blood is a pearly pink-raspberry color. I wonder if we'll be seeing some pregnancy difficulties for Christie.

Last season, Amanda wondered that Irisa didn't seem to be a hybrid when Nolan said she was his daughter. Since Irathient blood looks more like human blood, it's fair to assume that human-Irathient hybrids are a more successful pairing.

I know I'd rather get closer with Sukar over any Castithan man we've met. Datak? Skeevur? Daigo? The treacherous weapons inventor? Gah! Castithan men have been a parade of sociopaths and/or sad sacks. Although he's no prize, Alak is a little better, probably because he grew up in the New World.

[jhlipton]

Casthi men would appeal to very subservient women, very few of whom would be posting on the internet (at least not without their "owners" permission.  Most Casthi women we've seen are content to be subservient (like the bath-servant).

[johntfs]

Casti women are from Venus.  Casti men are from Gor.

[maczero]

Interesting ep.  And to quote someone upthread, "gayest episode ever".

 

Loved the Rafe/Stahma bath scene.  Also, loved how casual Rafe was walking around in a bath robe and Datak's slippers right in front of Datak.  Reminds of a time I went to visit my ex and her new guy was getting out of the shower.  Talk about awkward.

 

Do Casthithians and Irathients worship the same god?  Datak mentions Irzu while talking with the Votan spy.  I thought Irzu was part of the Irathient belief system.

[johntfs]

Interesting ep.  And to quote someone upthread, "gayest episode ever".

 

Loved the Rafe/Stahma bath scene.  Also, loved how casual Rafe was walking around in a bath robe and Datak's slippers right in front of Datak.  Reminds of a time I went to visit my ex and her new guy was getting out of the shower.  Talk about awkward.

 

Do Casthithians and Irathients worship the same god?  Datak mentions Irzu while talking with the Votan spy.  I thought Irzu was part of the Irathient belief system.

 Just because Datak is aware of Irzu doesn't mean he's follower, especially since Datak is mocking the guy at the time.

[3jt]

Love all things Rafe! MORE Dr. Yewell please! I am thrilled that this season is even better than last. I am having a bit of a hard time seeing Amanda as running the Need/Want, she just doesn't come across as Madam enough..... Her sister looked the part, Amanda not so much. I want another ass kicking for Datak (that never gets old for me).