S11.E15: Two Moms, Their Daughter, and a Baby

[DakotaJustice]

3 minutes ago, Pickleinthemiddle said:

At the most they might be making $600K a season.  No way were they ever making $900K.  

that would only be $120k apiece. Before taxes...

It sounds like a lot of money but six figures doesn't stretch very far in this part of the country. If they lived in Utah, Y-oming or Colorado, they could probably make that money go a bit farther but to be able to qualify for a $900k home when he's already saddled with mortgages on the land? He'd have to be making a lot more than $120k or even $240k (again, before taxes) to qualify, I would think.

Edited April 22, 2020 by DakotaJustice

[xwordfanatik]

Love the Y-oming reminder! 

Remember when Kootie told Robyn that she was "too pretty to cook" whilst looking at their house early on in LV?  Well, Robyn says she's "too pretty to spell."  Who needs a brain when she's got a closet full of VS?

[Kyanight]

18 minutes ago, xwordfanatik said:

Love the Y-oming reminder! 

Remember when Kootie told Robyn that she was "too pretty to cook" whilst looking at their house early on in LV?  Well, Robyn says she's "too pretty to spell."  Who needs a brain when she's got a closet full of VS?

A closet full of VS doesn't help when you have a chin the size of an SUV and a really waspish personality.

[deirdra]

On 4/16/2020 at 8:55 PM, Kyanight said:

Robyn said it had to be a "fambly thing".  I thought the family told Robyn that it was more of a hobby and she was all bent out of shape over that?

The fambly probably thought that, but Janelle was the one to actually say it in a televised fambly meeting with the 5 of them all sitting around the table. Janelle would know that you need to subtract costs from sales to determine whether your dream is a business or a hobby.

Edited April 22, 2020 by deirdra

[toodles]

2 minutes ago, deirdra said:

The fambly probably thought that, but Janelle was the one to actually say it in a televised fambly meeting with the 5 of them all sitting around the table. Janelle would know that you need to subtract costs from sales to determine whether your dream is a business or a hobby.

You meant MINUS  the costs.  Once Robyn minused the costs, they made money.  No, really!

[deirdra]

4 minutes ago, toodles said:

You meant MINUS  the costs.  Once Robyn minused the costs, they made money.  No, really!

But she probably forgot to add all the receipts together, including the costs of unsold joory before "minusing" them from the total sales.  Remember when she presented the fambly with a box of all her unpaid bills for life before Kootie?  She probably had no idea how much they added up to, just that a bunch of monogamists wanted to be paid for the VS & other stuff she bought.

[toodles]

7 hours ago, DakotaJustice said:

I've never even dabbled in real estate but I would think that just obtaining the initial permits would be pretty spendy. @toodles is our Real Estate expert so I value her input (which is why I tagged her just now...hint hint)

I can't speak to the specifics of the Plague Valley costs but I can tell you that at least a 1/3 of construction funds are used before one shovel is ever put in the ground.  And of course they need to decide if they are building one house or four.  Are they even zoned for a vulgar McMansion?  Do they have an accurate cost for the roads, a variance for the gas easement, getting utilities to the property, utility permits and on and on.  As you determine these and many other issues that come up prior to commencement you are writing checks.  Many, many checks for big bucks.  And here is a fun fact:  Most banks require that the land loan be paid in full.   Most people save and plan for years prior to building a custom construction home.  But planning and common sense are not in the Brownie Play Book.

I was laughing my ass off when they were talking about building.  The money issue is always the most interesting part to me.  I know we will never know the real answers and the Browns' collective ignorance of the process has my eyes rolling back in my head.  

And back to the $150K loan for a minute.  If I were Janelle, the family banker, I would wash my hands of the whole thing.  I'm sure she will be the one to figure out how to make the loan payment.  Screw you assholes would be my answer.  One of the many, many reasons I could never be a good sister wife.  

I hope that answers some of your questions.  😎  Stay safe everyone.

 

[DakotaJustice]

Thank you @toodles! 

More proof that the land was bought primarily as a plot device. 

I look forward to watching the listing on Zillow fester away when they put the land back on the market. 

[toodles]

14 minutes ago, DakotaJustice said:

Thank you @toodles! 

More proof that the land was bought primarily as a plot device. 

I look forward to watching the listing on Zillow fester away when they put the land back on the market. 

That was probably waaaaay too much information.  I was listening to the youtuber last night and I thought wait a minute.  She is just reading that article that was posted earlier.  I was pretty meh about the whole thing.  And she was too twitchy for me.

[DakotaJustice]

58 minutes ago, toodles said:

That was probably waaaaay too much information.  I was listening to the youtuber last night and I thought wait a minute.  She is just reading that article that was posted earlier.  I was pretty meh about the whole thing.  And she was too twitchy for me.

Basically what she's doing is summarizing a blend of what we saw on the show, public records, tabloid articles, and posts at various forums including here and Reddit. 

ETA back to what you posted earlier - I doubt Janelle will have anything to do with that $150K HELOC. other than the show money, the days of the "common pot" are long gone IMO. 

Edited April 23, 2020 by DakotaJustice

[smarty]

If I was outlining the next season I'd have some episodes of them have actual family meetings about their finances.  Maybe even bring in a certified financial planner to advise them.  These would be real meetings like the Kody/Meri counseling season where Kody was honest about not liking Meri.  I want to see Janelle blow up at the others for being greedy while she lives in a crapper rental.  I want to see Christine complain that Robyn's house was $890,000 and hers was only $560,000.

Edited April 23, 2020 by smarty2020

[Roslyn]

18 hours ago, toodles said:

I can't speak to the specifics of the Plague Valley costs but I can tell you that at least a 1/3 of construction funds are used before one shovel is ever put in the ground.  And of course they need to decide if they are building one house or four.  Are they even zoned for a vulgar McMansion?  Do they have an accurate cost for the roads, a variance for the gas easement, getting utilities to the property, utility permits and on and on.  As you determine these and many other issues that come up prior to commencement you are writing checks.  Many, many checks for big bucks.  And here is a fun fact:  Most banks require that the land loan be paid in full.   Most people save and plan for years prior to building a custom construction home.  But planning and common sense are not in the Brownie Play Book.

I was laughing my ass off when they were talking about building.  The money issue is always the most interesting part to me.  I know we will never know the real answers and the Browns' collective ignorance of the process has my eyes rolling back in my head.  

And back to the $150K loan for a minute.  If I were Janelle, the family banker, I would wash my hands of the whole thing.  I'm sure she will be the one to figure out how to make the loan payment.  Screw you assholes would be my answer.  One of the many, many reasons I could never be a good sister wife.  

I hope that answers some of your questions.  😎  Stay safe everyone.

 

 

17 hours ago, DakotaJustice said:

Thank you @toodles! 

More proof that the land was bought primarily as a plot device. 

I look forward to watching the listing on Zillow fester away when they put the land back on the market. 

Kody made an odd off hand comment this season about "I've learned a lot about building now that I'm here" or something like that. 

Since he jumped WAY too fast at pulling his own utilities to replace the HOA kinds of rules that he had no clue what it meant.  After that comment he made I started to suspect that he THOUGHT that pulling utilities meant that he just needs to pay his builder more money to do it before building...

He pretty obviously had no idea that all utilities need to be in place before a mortgage can be applied for, and as Toodles mentioned it will go smoother and quicker if the land is owned outright before applying for a mortgage.  Yet it all needs to be paid for up front to get the ball rolling.   If you use the same lending you sometimes can roll a construction loan into a land loan and end up with land, a custom built house and just one mortgage. (I only know it can happen because this is something my husband's brother did two years ago).

But...it does show what an airbag idiot Kody is...as if we needed more proof 😂

[Sandy W]

36 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

 

Kody made an odd off hand comment this season about "I've learned a lot about building now that I'm here" or something like that. 

Since he jumped WAY too fast at pulling his own utilities to replace the HOA kinds of rules that he had no clue what it meant.  After that comment he made I started to suspect that he THOUGHT that pulling utilities meant that he just needs to pay his builder more money to do it before building...

He pretty obviously had no idea that all utilities need to be in place before a mortgage can be applied for, and as Toodles mentioned it will go smoother and quicker if the land is owned outright before applying for a mortgage.  Yet it all needs to be paid for up front to get the ball rolling.   If you use the same lending you sometimes can roll a construction loan into a land loan and end up with land, a custom built house and just one mortgage. (I only know it can happen because this is something my husband's brother did two years ago).

But...it does show what an airbag idiot Kody is...as if we needed more proof 😂

When he said that the builder had waived the restrictions, I think he was under the mistaken impression that he could go ahead and build a mega house.  The builder would not have the authority to waive CCR's which would have been imposed by the planning department of his county.  He did indeed have a lot to learn about lots.

When I was selling new custom homes, financing was taken in stages.  First draw or advance would be for excavation and foundation, once that was inspected and passed, the next draw would be for framing, then wiring and plumbing of utilities and on it would go, each step along the way passing inspection.  This ensures to the lender that money advanced goes to the actual construction of the financed dwelling rather than channeled to other purposes.

[Roslyn]

4 minutes ago, Sandy W said:

When he said that the builder had waived the restrictions, I think he was under the mistaken impression that he could go ahead and build a mega house.  The builder would not have the authority to waive CCR's which would have been imposed by the planning department of his county.  He did indeed have a lot to learn about lots.

When I was selling new custom homes, financing was taken in stages.  First draw or advance would be for excavation and foundation, once that was inspected and passed, the next draw would be for framing, then wiring and plumbing of utilities and on it would go, each step along the way passing inspection.  This ensures to the lender that money advanced goes to the actual construction of the financed dwelling rather than channeled to other purposes.

YES! This too!  SO many people are under the impression of "I own this land and I can build anything I damn well please!" It doesn't really work that way...

[mythoughtis]

Wouldn’t he have learned some of this in Vegas?   They had houses built there too. 

Edited April 26, 2020 by mythoughtis
Spelling

[Kyanight]

1 minute ago, mythoughtis said:

Wouldn’t tw have learned some of this in Vegas?   They had houses built there too. 

Some people NEVER learn.

[Absolom]

The builder took care of all those details because he was doing a mini-development. 

[Pickleinthemiddle]

On 4/23/2020 at 1:10 PM, Roslyn said:

YES! This too!  SO many people are under the impression of "I own this land and I can build anything I damn well please!" It doesn't really work that way...

True.  My brother bought some property and the realtor never disclosed the fact that an actual house had to be built.  Despite the fact that the other three homes on that 35 mile road were mobile homes.  He just assumed that he would be able to put one up to.  He eventually had the shell of a house built.  But sold it because he didn't have time to go and work on it.  They sold it for about 3 times the money they put into it.  So it wasn't a total loss.

[Rabbit Hutch]

4 hours ago, Pickleinthemiddle said:

True.  My brother bought some property and the realtor never disclosed the fact that an actual house had to be built.  Despite the fact that the other three homes on that 35 mile road were mobile homes.  He just assumed that he would be able to put one up to.  He eventually had the shell of a house built.  But sold it because he didn't have time to go and work on it.  They sold it for about 3 times the money they put into it.  So it wasn't a total loss.

This keeps me up nights due to that I've been looking at properties to put up a small (800-1,000 sf) home on to live in when we retire.  One tries to cover all bases and then something like this happens.  I can't believe Kootoe could be as naive as he was when it came to buying those Flagstaff properties, especially since he went through the house buying process at least twice before. This whole situation stinks to high heaven.

[Kohola3]

1 hour ago, Rabbit Hutch said:

This keeps me up nights due to that I've been looking at properties to put up a small (800-1,000 sf) home on to live in when we retire. 

Especially because for some reason (possibly the ability to tax) there are areas where the square footage needs to be much bigger than you'd like.  That happened to me - I was planning my retirement home and was flummoxed to find out that I had to have a place a lot larger than I had planned because of its location.  And that was on property I had inherited so I had no option at that point.

[Roslyn]

11 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

Wouldn’t he have learned some of this in Vegas?   They had houses built there too. 

 

3 hours ago, Rabbit Hutch said:

This keeps me up nights due to that I've been looking at properties to put up a small (800-1,000 sf) home on to live in when we retire.  One tries to cover all bases and then something like this happens.  I can't believe Kootoe could be as naive as he was when it came to buying those Flagstaff properties, especially since he went through the house buying process at least twice before. This whole situation stinks to high heaven.

House buying, building a house and developing a property are all completely different things.  Just because Kody had a custom house built (4 of them) doesn't mean he knows squat about what it takes to build a custom house, let along develop a property to HAVE a custom house built. In Vegas the lots were build ready.  The entire infrastructure was already in place and the builder could start as soon as plans were chosen and money down and signatures in place. This is one reason this kind of builder uses just a few floor plans.  Designing a custom house takes MUCH more money as plans need to be drawn up and then go to an architect and structural engineer and then through the inspection process for approval.  This builder has a couple of different floor plans that are already through that process that you choose from.  Which is why the whole..."Meri gets a fifth bedroom because she wanted the plan with the wet bar" happened...they can only choose from what is there.

There are state building codes, you can follow the letter of the codes but then the inspector comes in and he/she interprets them in a different way. 🙄 There may be county, township and even more localized ordinances for homes and property. Before doing anything there is pretty much a permit needed for the entire process. Everything takes money BEFORE a mortgage can be applied for.

Kody's "we have to do this and we have to do this N O W" attitude means to me that he didn't research anything.  He went solely on "W O W look how pretty this is.  We can look at a mountain" and assumed that all he needed was some money to pay the builder to make it happen.  Just sitting down with google and "how to I build a house on property I own" would have probably given him an idea of what is involved in an afternoon of reading.  All he cared about was no HOA restrictions but he didn't even think about county restrictions or the fact that water is hard to come by...🙄

From what I read Robyn's million dollar double loan mansion doesn't have a well, but has to have water trucked in... There is a huge difference in how you treat water when it is in a tank vs. living with a spring or a well vs. life with municipal water. That alone would change my mind about moving to an area...no matter how beautiful the view was. 

[suomi]

IIRC the water is trucked in at Christine's place also. That can't be cheap, supply and demand being one consideration. Or maybe the price is capped because water is an essential?

Edited April 26, 2020 by suomi

[smarty]

I just looked at both Christine's and Robyn's houses on zillow and you are correct - it says water is hauled.  NO WAY would I buy a house where I had to haul in water.  I do a lot of laundry and showers, I'd be getting water delivery every day.  How does that even work?  

[AZChristian]

6 minutes ago, smarty2020 said:

I just looked at both Christine's and Robyn's houses on zillow and you are correct - it says water is hauled.  NO WAY would I buy a house where I had to haul in water.  I do a lot of laundry and showers, I'd be getting water delivery every day.  How does that even work?  

Okay . . . NOW I understand why they were so excited about the naturally occurring "water source" they dived into on prairie dog plague plateau.

"Look, wives.  We won't even have to truck in water for our new houses.  LOOK!  There's WATER here.  We can just throw in a couple of chlorine tablets, and it'll clear right up!"

[Kohola3]

not

23 minutes ago, Roslyn said:

There may be county, township and even more localized ordinances for homes and property.

It can even get down to what side of the road you are on. In my township there are two completely different sets of restrictions - one for lakeside residents (Lake Huron shoreline) and one for everybody else.

15 minutes ago, suomi said:

Or maybe the price is capped because water is an essential?

Clean water is not a considered a right. We learned that the hard way in the Flint, MI water contamination crisis which has yet to be resolved.  So there may not be any cap on price.

[Roslyn]

21 minutes ago, smarty2020 said:

I just looked at both Christine's and Robyn's houses on zillow and you are correct - it says water is hauled.  NO WAY would I buy a house where I had to haul in water.  I do a lot of laundry and showers, I'd be getting water delivery every day.  How does that even work?  

If you have a heating system that uses heating fuel oil (very similar to kerosene/diesel) or propane you will have a tank.  When that tank is low you need to have your supplier deliver your oil/gas. Depending on the size of your tank and your usage will depend on how often/how much you need a delivery.

For water you would have a tank and a system to pressurize the flow into the house.  A house the size of Robyn's would have a very large system or maybe even several pressure tanks to ensure even pressure to all faucets.  After a month or two or careful consideration of your water usage I'm sure you could work out how often you need a delivery. It would be one thing if it is just a couple of adults, but I have a feeling that having 5 children (two of them very little) and being accustomed to municipal water...that would be a nightmare.

For my water I have a filtration system and a pressure tank that looks like a large propane tank.  From there the water goes to faucets for cold or to my hot water heater for hot.  It all fits into a 5 foot by 5 foot space in the basement, but if I wanted to push water to my second floor (attic) I would need a second pressure tank on my first floor or a larger system in the basement. My shower head has a small adjustable "thing" that helps keep consistent pressure.  The water keeps good pressure unless I'm using the garden hose a lot, but even then it is still usable. I'm assuming that this kind of system would be used with a water tank as well. It is common in my area if you are buying a farm for it to have a cistern that catches rain water for storage and then pumps etc from that tank.

EDT: AND when Janelle said how "blessed" they were because there was a well on "the property".  She didn't state WHICH property.  NO way will one well service multiple homes.  Around here people have a well for the house and a separate well for the barn.  Plus drilling wells brings on yet another set of ordinances/permits/rules and regulations.

Edited April 26, 2020 by Roslyn
another thought

[Pickleinthemiddle]

8 hours ago, suomi said:

IIRC the water is trucked in at Christine's place also. That can't be cheap, supply and demand being one consideration. Or maybe the price is capped because water is an essential?

I read an article about Ash Fork which is down the interstate from Flagstaff.  About a family that said they pay $60 for 2,000 gallons of water.  For context, the average American family uses 300 gallons of water per day.  A family of 7 would probably use more like 500 a day.  So a 2,000 delivery wouldn't even last them a few days.  All the companies in the area say to call for a quote.

[Kohola3]

31 minutes ago, Pickleinthemiddle said:

A family of 7 would probably use more like 500 a day. 

And you know this group of "the world owes us" fools have no compulsion to conserve as evidenced by the "spending money like water" attitudes they all possess.

[Elizzikra]

13 hours ago, Rabbit Hutch said:

This keeps me up nights due to that I've been looking at properties to put up a small (800-1,000 sf) home on to live in when we retire.  One tries to cover all bases and then something like this happens.  I can't believe Kootoe could be as naive as he was when it came to buying those Flagstaff properties, especially since he went through the house buying process at least twice before. This whole situation stinks to high heaven.

Isn't this why one has a realtor though? So did their realtor not advise them properly or did Kootie and the Wives not listen to any answers they didn't want to hear?

 

[Sandy W]

47 minutes ago, Elizzikra said:

Isn't this why one has a realtor though? So did their realtor not advise them properly or did Kootie and the Wives not listen to any answers they didn't want to hear?

 

As I recall, some mention was made by the realtor regarding permits for a mega house.  What would have stopped most responsible parents from even entertaining the thought of purchase is when the realtor told them not to let the kids play in the dirt as it was contaminated with Bubonic Plague.   Most people would have grabbed their kids and beat it out of there as soon as they heard those words.

They. Bought. It. Anyhow.

[Absolom]

6 minutes ago, Sandy W said:

As I recall, some mention was made by the realtor regarding permits for a mega house.  What would have stopped most responsible parents from even entertaining the thought of purchase is when the realtor told them not to let the kids play in the dirt as it was contaminated with Bubonic Plague.   Most people would have grabbed their kids and beat it out of there as soon as they heard those words.

They. Bought. It. Anyhow.

It isn't the realtor's job to babysit the client and mention all possibilities and issues.  They do tend to mention obvious ones like prairie dog plague especially when it's right in front of them and they could be negligent for not mentioning that.  But how to build a custom house is not something they would normally explain unless asked and then they'd need to tell the client to consult a lawyer and a construction company along with an architect and possibly others to fully cover themselves.  As said above, Kody and company apparently asked very little and what they did hear, they obviously ignored.  Rational people they aren't.

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, Pickleinthemiddle said:

A family of 7 would probably use more like 500 a day.  

I imagine Kody could probably use 500 a day, just rinsing out hair products.

[Kyanight]

12 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I imagine Kody could probably use 500 a day, just rinsing out hair products.

Or washing his penis between wives.

That was CLEARLY clearly clearly CLEARLY obviously a joke.  He only boinks Robyn, of course.

[xwordfanatik]

25 minutes ago, Kyanight said:

Or washing his penis between wives.

That was CLEARLY clearly clearly CLEARLY obviously a joke.  He only boinks Robyn, of course.

@Kyanight, you are very sharp on a Monday!  LOL good one!

Now I'm wondering if he did that with the 3 that were "all there from the beginningk!"  

That was rhetorical, I don't expect an answer.  Don't rilly want to know.  🤮

 

[AZChristian]

1 minute ago, xwordfanatik said:

Now I'm wondering if he did that with the 3 that were "all there from the beginningk!"  

That was rhetorical, I don't expect an answer.  Don't rilly want to know.  🤮

Well, maybe if he had been a little more careful with personal hygiene, the sisterhood of the traveling mouth sores would never have existed.

[Kyanight]

3 minutes ago, AZChristian said:

Well, maybe if he had been a little more careful with personal hygiene, the sisterhood of the traveling mouth sores would never have existed.

That was all courtesy of Robyn, who ALWAYS had a cold sore on her mouth from the moment she joined the fambly.  I guess Kody could have bleached his lips between kissing the wives, but it's such a non-issue now.  He's afraid of the baby chicken mcnugget on Janelle, Christine is a "pal" and he loathes Meri.

[Rabbit Hutch]

On 4/26/2020 at 7:52 AM, Kohola3 said:

Especially because for some reason (possibly the ability to tax) there are areas where the square footage needs to be much bigger than you'd like.  That happened to me - I was planning my retirement home and was flummoxed to find out that I had to have a place a lot larger than I had planned because of its location.  And that was on property I had inherited so I had no option at that point.

Agreed.  I too have come across this on quite a few properties, and some in rural areas a good ways from the nearest town.  Buying property to improve is not as easy as those uninitiated to the process might be led to believe.  Other areas that are rife with landmines are foreclosures and properties with current rental tenants.  I won't even consider these type of properties due to the potential problems after the purchase.

[ladle]

Kody: "I try to check in on my kids almost daily." 

How has this man not been canonized yet?!

[Kyanight]

21 minutes ago, ladle said:

Kody: "I try to check in on my kids almost daily." 

How has this man not been canonized yet?!

Oh he was!!  In his own mind.

[ladle]

All I have to say about this shitshow is at least Caleb seems to have a real job that exists in the world. 

Also, I fast forward through ONE season and suddenly Kody has a Bichon Frise perm?? 
 

[crimson23]

On 4/26/2020 at 9:47 AM, smarty2020 said:

I just looked at both Christine's and Robyn's houses on zillow and you are correct - it says water is hauled.  NO WAY would I buy a house where I had to haul in water.  I do a lot of laundry and showers, I'd be getting water delivery every day.  How does that even work?  

I remember watching shows about living in Alaska where people had to have water delivered. They had these huge 2000 gallon tanks in the basement and trucks would haul in it or you could go and pump water yourself for cheaper if you had the means to get it home.

[Elizzikra]

31 minutes ago, crimson23 said:

I remember watching shows about living in Alaska where people had to have water delivered. They had these huge 2000 gallon tanks in the basement and trucks would haul in it or you could go and pump water yourself for cheaper if you had the means to get it home.

Someone posted about this earlier or maybe in another thread. I remember because reading that the average American household uses 300 gallons of water PER DAY was shocking to me (and now with all this intense hand washing, I can only imagine what we use). I am really uneducated on these things because I didn't realize that houses could have water tanks the same way they have oil tanks - and I think you use much less oil than water. What a pain in the ass to have to continuously monitor those things and make sure you have sufficient water delivery planned. I wonder what that costs?

[AZChristian]

On 5/14/2020 at 6:18 PM, Elizzikra said:

What a pain in the ass to have to continuously monitor those things and make sure you have sufficient water delivery planned. I wonder what that costs?

Not sure what it costs, but I predict the Browns will be on a "Pay Before Delivery" plan within a couple of months.

I used to work for an electric company.  If we had customers who were consistently late in paying bills, they were required to have a "pay as you go" meter in their house.  So it's summer, and it's 110 degrees.  You want air conditioning?  Please insert a credit or debit card for $20 worth of power.  And the purchase wasn't approved until the bank/credit card company approved the amount.

[Pooky]

On 4/21/2020 at 2:31 PM, crimson23 said:

the Maddie and Meri tweets and  story were covered by the You Tuber, Without A Crystal Ball, the other day.  Pretty interesting. 

I can't watch her... she doesnt research much just what other polygamists have told her... and made up from there.