S01.E05: Duo

[IslandGirl]

17 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

Not sure I’m buying that Mia didn’t “have good choices” to make. 

Was Mia African American in the book? The reason I ask is there was even more racism back then than there is in today's world. I was in college at that time & was actually told when job hunting that someone as dark skinned as I would never find a job there, & they were unfortunately right...

[IslandGirl]

On 4/3/2020 at 7:06 PM, LeGrandElephant said:

I haven’t seen anything to explain why everyone would assume Izzie would try to kill her whole family, but I assume more is coming. 

I haven't read the book yet, so I'm just guessing, but I have the feeling Izzy is going to blame her parents (especially Mom), & possibly even her siblings (since they are now involved with Mia & Pearl) for the demise of Izzy's friendship with Mia. She was looking up to Mia as a role model, & even as a substitute mother, so that relationship was extremely important & would constitute a huge loss...

[Haleth]

39 minutes ago, IslandGirl said:

Was Mia African American in the book?

Answering in the Book Talk thread.

Edited April 5, 2020 by Haleth

[OtterMommy]

5 hours ago, IslandGirl said:

I don't hate Izzy by any means, but she does have a lot of constant anger & negativity which are not the most appealing traits. Trip approached her kindly & she shut him down immediately. She's not the nicest person & needs to get out of her own head a bit...

She's also a 14 year old girl, which is not the easiest age.  She's also dealing with something, her sexuality, which is hard for someone that age even now, but much harder in the 90s when it was less acceptable, or at least more of a novelty.

I don't hate Izzy, but she is difficult.  While I don't *like* a lot of the characters in this show, I think that is the point.  

5 hours ago, Haleth said:

Answering in the Book Talk thread.

FYI...I moved the answer to this to the Book Questions thread to avoid spoilers.

[Haleth]

19 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

FYI...I moved the answer to this to the Book Questions thread to avoid spoilers.

Ah, thanks.  I didn't see that thread.

[IslandGirl]

I was just thinking about another reason Isabelle might burn down her house (assuming it really was Izzie). She always saw her father as the one person in the house she could trust. She probably felt horribly betrayed by him when he told Elena what she'd told him in confidence. Then he says he wants Mia out of the rental. I  suspect after those two events, Izzie felt no one in her family had her back, & they took Mia away from her...

[Vivigirl10]

Quote

I'm glad that the baby storyline kind of took a backseat this ep. I did not miss it. 

Me tooooo.

In my opinion, this was the best episode so far.  

Quote

The photo was taken by a famous photographer, Pauline Hawthorne, which is why it commanded so much money. Mia was just the model. Anita was essentially saying that Mia's own work would never fetch as much.

Thank you for confirming this!  I was starting to think I had made an assumption that was not correct.  I'm afraid I took it a step further though.  I had assumed that Mia was acting as the surrogate for Pauline.  Did anyone else think that?  

I still don't understand why Mia would get the money for a print that she was not the artist of?

 

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, Kiki620 said:

I had assumed that Mia was acting as the surrogate for Pauline.  Did anyone else think that?  

I am thinking that's a definite possibility, too. 

2 minutes ago, Kiki620 said:

I still don't understand why Mia would get the money for a print that she was not the artist of?

I don't understand that either.

[thesupremediva1]

Did Mia feel better about herself, being a nasty bitch to an emotionally compromised teenager?

I understood her annoyance and anger at Elena, but Jesus, was she proud of herself to have a go at young girl like that? That's a child and you're an adult. Behave like one. I'm officially done with Mia. And I've liked Kerry Washington ever since Save the Last Dance, so it's not her acting. It's the character. 

Enjoying this show, but it's tough when you don't like any of the characters at all. I can't really "root" for anyone, so while I'm intrigued, I'm not truly invested in any outcome. 

[OtterMommy]

21 hours ago, thesupremediva1 said:

I understood her annoyance and anger at Elena, but Jesus, was she proud of herself to have a go at young girl like that? That's a child and you're an adult. Behave like one. I'm officially done with Mia. And I've liked Kerry Washington ever since Save the Last Dance, so it's not her acting. It's the character. 

My problem was not what she said to Lexie--everything she said was true and Lexie needed to hear it sooner or later.  My problem was when and how she chose to do it.  Yes, Mia has a right to be angry and hurt on behalf on her daughter, but lecturing a teen aged girl who *just had an abortion* and is a complete mess is not at all the time to do it.  It's just cruel--but since I doubt Mia cares about cruelty, it is also ineffective.  Lexie isn't going to absorb anything Mia said, but she will see it as Mia verbally attacking her, which will reinforce Lexie's problematic behaviors and beliefs.

[chocolatine]

6 hours ago, Kiki620 said:

I still don't understand why Mia would get the money for a print that she was not the artist of?

It could have been gifted to her by the artist or given as "payment" for posing if the artist wasn't rich and famous when the photo was taken. Like any material goods, works of art can transfer ownership.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

11 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

My problem was not what she said to Izzy--everything she said was true and Izzy needed to hear it sooner or later.  My problem was when and how she chose to do it.  Yes, Mia has a right to be angry and hurt on behalf on her daughter, but lecturing a teen aged girl who *just had an abortion* and is a complete mess is not at all the time to do it.  It's just cruel--but since I doubt Mia cares about cruelty, it is also ineffective.  Izzy isn't going to absorb anything Mia said, but she will see it as Mia verbally attacking her, which will reinforce Izzy's problematic behaviors and beliefs.

FYI - I think you meant Lexie, not Izzy!

[Empress1]

On 4/1/2020 at 3:47 AM, dmc said:

Also I feel like surrogates change their mind all the time why is Mia running due to this

If she was a surrogate and the father’s sperm was used instead of donor sperm, the father would have rights to the baby. If the baby is biologically Mia’s & Surrogate Couple Dad’s, Surrogate Couple Dad is legally entitled to have some sort of contact with her.

I feel like (and I’m not an expert so correct me if I’m wrong) it’s common nowadays for surrogates NOT to use their own eggs because that way they have no biological claim to the infant and can’t decide to keep it.

[OtterMommy]

9 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

FYI - I think you meant Lexie, not Izzy!

Welp! Yes!  Fixed it!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

51 minutes ago, OtterMommy said:

Welp! Yes!  Fixed it!

Haha, brain farts happen all the time!

[Ms Blue Jay]

A lot of these people don't fit their character names.  It makes it hard for me to keep them all straight.  But I think I'm getting there now.

For example, I really do not see Pearl as a Pearl.  I could see her as a Lexie.  I mean, I've never met anyone named Pearl so there you go.  I don't see Lexie as a Lexie either.

Also, Mia is a "cute" name.  I don't really see Mia as a Mia.

Edited April 7, 2020 by Ms Blue Jay

[Maysie]

I feel like Mia's dressing down of Lexie was a mix of things: misdirected anger/resentment towards Elena and anger over how Lexie used Pearl's name at the clinic, with some basic "truth" thrown in (and for what it's worth, I agreed with a lot of what she said to Lexie). I wonder how she would have responded to Lexie if she knew when she walked in the door with Pearl how Lexie used Pearl? Would Mia have let Lexie spend the night? Would she have sat up with Lexie until she fell asleep (because the conversation Mia later had with Pearl implied that she acted as a comforter, and I really didn't see THAT coming from Mia). So she finds out that Lexie decided she needed to use Pearl's identity for this procedure after all that and then she lashes out at Lexie. It was harsh, but honestly, it didn't bother me all that much because Lexie has no problem using people for her own gain and she rarely gets called on it by any adult (that we've seen, anyway).

I didn't like the way Mia treated Izzy, however. Izzy is younger, fragile and doesn't have much of a support network, whether it's her mother, siblings or friends, and Mia knows that. Add in how Mia just helped herself to whatever she decided she wanted from their house, and yeah, that makes that interaction with Izzy pretty much inexcusable in my book.

I was hoping we would get some context about Mia's background to explain why she feels so invested (literally) in Bebe, so the episode didn't disappoint in that way.

[Hiacios]

The characters who I think are utter pieces of shit are Mia, Izzy, and Bebe. 

Mia: A deadbeat, morally bankrupt, nasty person. 

Izzy: A spoiled, ungrateful, ugly inside and out person.

Bebe: Another deadbeat, morally bankrupt, nasty person.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, Maysie said:

I didn't like the way Mia treated Izzy, however. Izzy is younger, fragile and doesn't have much of a support network, whether it's her mother, siblings or friends, and Mia knows that. Add in how Mia just helped herself to whatever she decided she wanted from their house, and yeah, that makes that interaction with Izzy pretty much inexcusable in my book.

I agree. I kinda liked it thought because it tracked for how they've been presenting Mia since it felt like she was projecting with being so upset over the 'invasion of privacy,' which could go along with her possibly projecting with the Bebe situation if she did, indeed, run away with Pearl after a surrogacy situation.

[IslandGirl]

7 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

A lot of these people don't fit their character names.  It makes it hard for me to keep them all straight.  But I think I'm getting there now.

For example, I really do not see Pearl as a Pearl.  I could see her as a Lexie.  I mean, I've never met anyone named Pearl so there you go.  I don't see Lexie as a Lexie either.

Also, Mia is a "cute" name.  I don't really see Mia as a Mia.

I like the name Pearl for her because just the way a pearl is produced within the soft tissue of a living shelled mollusk (or another animal), that's how I metaphorically see Mia raising Pearl.

And for me, Mia works because she's all MeMeMea!

[Hiacios]

4 hours ago, IslandGirl said:

I like the name Pearl for her because just the way a pearl is produced within the soft tissue of a living shelled mollusk (or another animal), that's how I metaphorically see Mia raising Pearl.

And for me, Mia works because she's all MeMeMea!

Nah, Mia is a POS.

[dmc]

21 hours ago, Empress1 said:

If she was a surrogate and the father’s sperm was used instead of donor sperm, the father would have rights to the baby. If the baby is biologically Mia’s & Surrogate Couple Dad’s, Surrogate Couple Dad is legally entitled to have some sort of contact with her.

I feel like (and I’m not an expert so correct me if I’m wrong) it’s common nowadays for surrogates NOT to use their own eggs because that way they have no biological claim to the infant and can’t decide to keep it.

I am not an expert either. But generally judges side with the mother and this was a while ago.  I don’t think she would have lost Pearl.  

[Cementhead]

On 4/7/2020 at 3:17 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

For example, I really do not see Pearl as a Pearl.  I could see her as a Lexie.  I mean, I've never met anyone named Pearl so there you go.  I don't see Lexie as a Lexie either.

To further confuse the issue for you, the actress playing Pearl is named Lexi in real life.  I shit you not. 

[Ms Blue Jay]

1 hour ago, Cementhead said:

To further confuse the issue for you, the actress playing Pearl is named Lexi in real life.  I shit you not. 

Ok you know what?  I think I knew that and it WAS confusing me.  Thank you.

[Aqua]

On 4/1/2020 at 3:18 AM, Adgirl said:

I don't know...Mia didn't enter their home under the pretense of friendship. She only agreed to be the maid so she could keep an eye on Pearl. I should be able to leave you alone in my home and even if you poke through my medicine cabinet I would expect discretion. While Izzy is a teenager, teens better than anyone should understand a person's desire for privacy.

I wonder if what Mia said to Lexi will sink in. Lexi didn't put her name on that piece of paper because it could negatively effect her future but what about Pearl's future? What if she runs for president? Middle America wouldn't vote for a black woman who'd had an abortion. The fact that Lexi did't even consider how her actions affect others is exactly why the lecture was necessary and her mom isn't self aware enough to deliver such a message.

 

I didn't quite get why Lexi put the name Pearl Warren on the paper. Wouldn't she just make up a name? Seems like a plot device.

P.S. I'm not sure what episode this happened in because I binge-watched a bunch of episodes but I didn't really need to see Lexi give Brian a handjob. I'm all for realism but seeing something so graphic especially with underage kids was a bit unseemly IMO.

[Aqua]

On 4/1/2020 at 6:52 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I liked that we got to see that Elena is good at being a tenacious journalist, but it made me sad to think about how she wanted to work for the New York Times and gave it up to get married and live in her hometown. Bill clearly didn't give up his career aspirations. She might love her family but it's clear she regrets not making it to New York. I laughed when she told the cab driver that she was a journalist at "a prominent newspaper."

 

I think he did give up his career aspirations because he was a public defender and gave it up to work in a law firm to raise a family. I was a public defender and I know many lawyers are idealistic and love that kind of work, helping the people, but for many it becomes financially impossible. So I think he did give up his dreams to some extent.

[MaryPatShelby]

On 4/3/2020 at 3:38 PM, peachmangosteen said:

Wow, I did not realize it sold for that much. OK that makes zero sense. That must mean Mia is some huge art person, which doesn't track with how her and Pearl live or with how she's being presented as someone who is hiding from someone/thing. 

Plus, she had the money to buy the equipment for and set up a whole darkroom in that allegedly small apartment.  I grew up having a darkroom in our basement, and that stuff wasn't cheap even in the dark ages when I was a kid.  That darkroom has been bugging me throughout the entire show.  

[Aqua]

On 4/7/2020 at 3:17 PM, Ms Blue Jay said:

A lot of these people don't fit their character names.  It makes it hard for me to keep them all straight.  But I think I'm getting there now.

For example, I really do not see Pearl as a Pearl.  I could see her as a Lexie.  I mean, I've never met anyone named Pearl so there you go.  I don't see Lexie as a Lexie either.

Also, Mia is a "cute" name.  I don't really see Mia as a Mia.

The girl that plays Pearl is named Lexie in real life!

On 4/6/2020 at 11:29 AM, peachmangosteen said:

I am thinking that's a definite possibility, too. 

I don't understand that either.

She was the model and Pauline wanted her to have it when she knew she was dying.

[Jax7917]

On 4/2/2020 at 3:42 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Since the first episode, the actress playing Lexie has reminded me of Sasha Pieterse. It's not constant, but there are moments when she looks so much like her that it's uncanny. Having so much Lexie in this episode reminded me just how much she resembles her at certain angles.

Yes !! Just said that to my husband during this episode . They look so much alike in some scenes . 

[Kel Varnsen]

On 4/4/2020 at 12:44 PM, LeGrandElephant said:

Doesn’t Reese Witherspoon have a daughter who looks exactly like her? Is she not interested in acting, even as a quick cameo to play her mother in flashbacks? 

Even if she did have a daughter who looked like her, that daughter might find it creepy to be playing her mom in a flash back that includes a sex scene.

On 4/4/2020 at 3:31 AM, chocolatine said:

 

The photo was taken by a famous photographer, Pauline Hawthorne, which is why it commanded so much money. Mia was just the model. Anita was essentially saying that Mia's own work would never fetch as much.

What I didn't really get is how the photo led to having the name of Mia's dead brother. How was the name of the brother connected. 

I was kind of surprised that Elana made it from NYC to wherever she was in Pennsylvania safely. She hadn't gotten any sleep and considering her limit is usually 4 ounces of wine (and she it tiny) she was probably still drunk.

[chocolatine]

5 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

What I didn't really get is how the photo led to having the name of Mia's dead brother. How was the name of the brother connected. 

Elena looked up Pauline Hawthorne and found out she'd taught at an art school in NYC in the early 80s. Elena went to NYC and bribed someone at the school with cupcakes to get the student registers for those years. She didn't find a Mia Warren - the name Mia is going by in Shaker - but found a Mia Wright with a Pittsburgh home address. Then she had her NYT journalist ex-boyfriend look into the address, which is how she found out that Mia had had a brother named Warren, who died at 17.

[mommalib]

On 4/3/2020 at 5:54 AM, Marci said:

Lexi absolutely treats Pearl abominably. True, Pearl has a “doormat tendency”, but that doesn’t excuse Lexi’s behavior. I know some very intelligent women who have Pearl’s tendency. I think because it would never occur to them to treat someone with such narcissistic motives, they just don’t see it in others.

I understand wanting to protect your daughter, but Mia’s response to Lexi was emotionally abusive. Lexi is a teenager; Mia’s response was as self-serving as Lexi’s use of Pearl’s name. Instead, she should teach Pearl how to pause and think about the red flags she’s seeing in Lexi’s “friendship”.

Jamie’s little speech at the end was also horrific. Unless it turns out Jamie did something so awful, and it just might, it was cruel. If he can’t stand her that much, why go out with her at all?  To see if she changed?  C’mon.

So we are seeing that privilege and entitlement doesn’t get anybody anywhere.  To those outside looking in, it’s a source of envy and resentment. To those inside it their whole lives, the material things do not guarantee the things that really matter, like happiness. The grass is always greener, and all that.

No i'm glad Mia let Lexie have it. That was needed.

[Aqua]

On 4/16/2020 at 12:53 AM, ReviewX said:

P.S. I'm not sure what episode this happened in because I binge-watched a bunch of episodes but I didn't really need to see Lexi give Brian a handjob. I'm all for realism but seeing something so graphic especially with underage kids was a bit unseemly IMO.

I felt the same way about a hand job in Sharp Objects. The eek factor was worse for me than if it was straight out sex being depicted. 

[Cheezwiz]

I've found this whole series to be a tough slog. I think the issues it brings up are interesting, but man, it's been S-L-O-W. Each episode has been under an hour, but they have all felt three hours long to me. This was actually one of the stronger episodes in my opinion.

I completely understand that characters don't have to be likeable, but for me, there's literally been no one for me to root for. With the exception of Bill, Moody and Pearl, almost everyone on the show is a total asshole. I'm not invested in the adoption storyline either, because I actually think both parties are wrong in that situation.

It's taken awhile for the show to build intrigue, but there are some story threads that are now tantalizing me. I am dying to know whqt Elena did to her old boyfriend. Clearly the show is setting up that the apple doesn't fall far from the tree, with Elena & Lexi being blithe users of other people. I hope Bill dumps Elena's ass.  I was actually glad to see Mia give it to Lexi with both barrels - it  may have been harsh, but was deserved and needed to be said, even if Mia is a total hypocrite herself.

I initially felt some sympathy for Izzy, especially considering the way ALL of her siblings along with Elena treated her, but I'm not liking her much either. Curious to see whether it's her that burns the family home down. Otherwise, eh, I don't care much about anyone on this show.

 

[Anela]

On 4/1/2020 at 3:39 AM, dmc said:

So what exactly did Elena do to her ex?  What was he looking for an apology for?  Seems like they just broke up.  But Bill seems like a pretty good husband so kind of reckless there.  

Mia is so volatile behaviorally.  I mean she shows like one second of vulnerability and then whips it right back.  

Trip didn't have a change of heart, he doesn't think he's good enough for Pearl.  

 

I wondered if one of her children was his - maybe she got pregnant, he left, she decided to keep the baby, and married her husband. 

Mia was right in what she said to Lexie. I know that Lexie needed someone, but it seems like she went to Mia, because everyone else would look down on her, and use it against her mother, too. Mia was "safe" in that way, or so she thought. I remember when an online friend confided something in me, and then I realized that it was because she couldn't tell her "real life" friends. I was safe. Lexie was terrible, putting down Pearl's name, and also using her for a ride home, rather than calling another friend, or her boyfriend. 

Edited April 10, 2021 by Anela

[Inquisitionist]

On 4/2/2020 at 8:45 AM, IslandGirl said:

I thought the actor who played Elena's ex did a terrible job in the final scene where he calls her a narcissist & says it's not his job to make her life more bearable. I felt like I was watching an actor act & it ruined the great dialogue for me.

I didn't think the dialog was great either.

On 4/2/2020 at 3:12 PM, OtterMommy said:

I thought that was strange too.  One on hand, the actor playing Jamie was too old to be playing a college senior...

And too young to be playing a contemporary of Reese Witherspoon:  in 2020, she was 44 and he was 31.  I snickered when the character referenced his 40th birthday. 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 4/6/2020 at 11:29 AM, peachmangosteen said:

I am thinking that's a definite possibility, too. 

I don't understand that either.

She got money for selling a valuable piece of art created by a now-deceased famous artist. 

 

[love2lovebadtv]

On 4/1/2020 at 6:52 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

And once again, Mia uses the threat of moving to try to get Pearl in line. GROSS.

I liked that we got to see that Elena is good at being a tenacious journalist, but it made me sad to think about how she wanted to work for the New York Times and gave it up to get married and live in her hometown. Bill clearly didn't give up his career aspirations. She might love her family but it's clear she regrets not making it to New York. I laughed when she told the cab driver that she was a journalist at "a prominent newspaper."

But what was up with an art school roster having all the students' home addresses? That was not a thing at any school I attended.

I hate the way Mia emotionally manipulates Pearl. 

Elena did want to work for the New York Times but it seemed like she wanted to live in her hometown first and never managed to leave. Bill didn't want to work in a big corporate law firm so I would say he gave up his career aspirations, too. 

It's perfectly normal for schools to have students' home addresses. It's not something you would have seen as a student. But colleges send mail to students - tuition bills, grades, etc. As a college, the art school would have had a temporary address and a permanent home address. Students would not have seen this roster but college employees have access to For the sake of the plot, the show pretended that a NYC college would have given out someone's personal information because she brought Magnolia cupcakes and they also sped up how long it might have taken to produce a report and printout of students who attended 16 years earlier 

On 4/2/2020 at 4:12 PM, OtterMommy said:

So, was this anachronistic?  On the poster in the clinic office when Lexie went in, they had an IUD listed as a form of contraception.  Weren't IUD's off the market in the 90s?

I think IUDs were around in the early 80s when this took place. 

On 4/3/2020 at 4:38 PM, peachmangosteen said:

Wow, I did not realize it sold for that much. OK that makes zero sense. That must mean Mia is some huge art person, which doesn't track with how her and Pearl live or with how she's being presented as someone who is hiding from someone/thing. 

Mia makes money from her art but she does not command such a huge price tag. The money is for selling a valuable art piece. It so happens that she was the subject but she didn't create it.

On 4/3/2020 at 9:48 PM, ShellsandCheese said:

I’m not excusing Mia’s behavior. I’m simply saying it doesn’t make sense that she’s still running after all this time. Unless there was a custody battle and she actually breaking the law. Keeping your kid away from a parent, as distasteful and unfair as it may be, is only a crime of you are in violation of a legal custody decision / agreement. It still makes no sense that Mia is living like a vagabond and going through periods of homelessness; especially considering that she can easily sell a piece of art for almost half a mil. 

Mia's lifestyle is extreme but not because of a traditional custody battle. She's afraid of Pearl having any other parents in her life. That's why she doesn't even tell Pearl anything about her father or even her grandparents. She doesn't even have friends or romantic partners. It's not just about what's legal or not. I don't agree with it but I think this is the rationale behind her behavior. 

Selling the piece of art is actually what put her back on the radar. It was only a matter of time before other people from Mia's past found her. She would no longer have Pearl all to herself.

On 4/4/2020 at 3:31 AM, chocolatine said:

 

The photo was taken by a famous photographer, Pauline Hawthorne, which is why it commanded so much money. Mia was just the model. Anita was essentially saying that Mia's own work would never fetch as much.

Yes, I think people may have mistaken this for a self-portrait. 

On 4/16/2020 at 1:00 AM, Aqua said:

I think he did give up his career aspirations because he was a public defender and gave it up to work in a law firm to raise a family. I was a public defender and I know many lawyers are idealistic and love that kind of work, helping the people, but for many it becomes financially impossible. So I think he did give up his dreams to some extent.

Yes, Bill did give up his career aspirations. They're both working in their intended fields but not in the way they wanted to. 

On 4/6/2020 at 11:27 AM, Kiki620 said:

Me tooooo.

In my opinion, this was the best episode so far.  

Thank you for confirming this!  I was starting to think I had made an assumption that was not correct.  I'm afraid I took it a step further though.  I had assumed that Mia was acting as the surrogate for Pauline.  Did anyone else think that?  

I still don't understand why Mia would get the money for a print that she was not the artist of?

 

She sold a valuable piece of art that was left to her. Like if someone had sold any other valuable item that had been left to them.