Season 5 Discussion...

[dubbel zout]

11 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Will proposing was the dumbest thing ever.

That totally cracked me up. He really was doing it just for the sex, though I do think he has a genuine fondness, at the very least, for Ellie. We're in the early '60s now, right? So Beatlemania should be happening (I totally get why we don't hear any songs; the rights cost a fortune!), and there should be some societal rumblings even someplace like placid Cambridge/Grantchester. Maybe especially placid Cambridge because it's a university town. Oh, Will. 

11 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Will walking out on leonard as the former is trying to have a meaningful conversation with him was very sidney-like. I hope it doesn't become a habit.

At least he called Leonard a genius before leaving. I think Sydney would have just up and run out.

4 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

  Now we see he has a believable problem with controlling his sexual urges once he lets them off the chain.  Interesting!

I'd like to see him talk to Leonard about celibacy. There's no requirement in the Anglican Church for it—indeed, it was abolished in 1549! Will seems to be testing himself somehow. If he thinks love for a woman will be stronger than his love for God, well, he should have dealt with that before he became a priest. 

[JudyObscure]

6 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

 

I'd like to see him talk to Leonard about celibacy. There's no requirement in the Anglican Church for it—indeed, it was abolished in 1549! Will seems to be testing himself somehow. If he thinks love for a woman will be stronger than his love for God, well, he should have dealt with that before he became a priest. 

I think it's chastity he's having trouble with. I imagine that's why he's so eager to get married.  Will probably thinks if he can have legal, marital sex every night, he'll be more settled and happy. As St.Paul said, "It's better to marry than to burn."  Will is burning right now and it probably would make life a little easier for him if he gets married, but not if it's to a woman who doesn't share his religious beliefs.  Paul also warned against being "unequally yoked."  Leonard cracked me up with his  frustrated, "I wish Paul hadn't written so many letters!"  

[BlackberryJam]

Sure, I feel bad for Mrs. C regarding his crook of a husband, but that actor just looks like a snake oil salesman. I never trusted him, but I'm not all that attached to Mrs. C. Her brand of judgemental Christianity turns me off the character.

As far as Will goes, next week I want the episode to be about how the gym owner and his 19 years of happy marriage is really his wife cheating on him with a couple of the younger gym guys. I just don't buy that they barely knew each other, lived apart for the first two or three years and are now a wonderful marriage. Maybe she has a 17 year old daughter she never told him about. 

Again, the killer was easy to peg. Not the god-complex LSD professor, but the woman taking revenge after being held back by the patriarchy. I am down with #FuckthePatriarchy , but give me a new theme already.

[dargosmydaddy]

13 hours ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Will walking out on leonard as the former is trying to have a meaningful conversation with him was very sidney-like.

I feel like way too much of Will has been Sidney-like this season. In addition to much of the dialogue in the Geordie/ Will scenes, which I feel like could have easily been Geordie/ Sidney in terms of the banter, we have...

• Will's sudden proposal as a way of avoiding other issues (I don't think Sidney actually proposed marriage to Violet (or did he and I conveniently forgot?) but proposing to go to America with her was basically the same thing... at least Ellie's reaction was much better/ more realistic than Violet's!)
• The red shirt Will wore in the previous episode... I swear Sidney wore the same one in season one! Do I need to fanwank that Sidney left it behind in his closet, and Will adopted it? I realize it's probably not the same shirt, but when you have two characters who (by necessity of profession) wear the exact same thing most of the time, maybe give them something drastically different on the rare occasion they're out of "uniform"...
• His preference for Geordie/ crime solving, to the point of seeming to neglect the vicarage/ Leonard/ Mrs. C.

Don't get me wrong, I know there are differences (though some of them are a bit too on-the-nose, like the motorcycle instead of the bicycle)... we have boxing instead of jazz, and family angst instead of Amanda angst, and Will seems much more at ease with his faith than Sidney ever did, but overall I wish there were more things to delineate the characters. I know they didn't want to change their successful formula too much, and that the change was necessitated by Norton's departure, but it feels like TPTB feel like they can't deviate much from what they had, and this would have been a nice chance for the show to grow and evolve more.

[buttersister]

Quote

they can't deviate much from what they had, and this would have been a nice chance for the show to grow and evolve more.

At least they've evolving Geordie! 

[willowk]

19 hours ago, ComeWhatMay said:

As noted by HelenBaby up thread, Cathy’s mother Diana is most likely bi-polar. My own mother grew up with a mentally ill mother in the ‘30s and ‘40s. The shame, the concealment, the rudimentary “treatment”... 

As we know, marriage isn’t perfect and people aren’t either. You can screw up royally and get another go at it if the foundation, fundamental decency, love and forgiveness is there—see Geordie—but Jack Chapman felt no more guilt taking and using that ring than he did ditching his first love and baby. Some people put themselves first 100% of the time. 

Proposing to someone you just met is nuts and the not religious, ambitious and going places Ellie is no vicar’s wife. Good on Ellie for saying so. Will has a lot of work to do and demons to put to rest too. 

The storyline with Cathy's mom was one i wasn't expecting and thought they did a great job with it. I do fear for her being sent into treatment given what Leonard said and Will's experience with the academic psychologists. What a mess.

I like Ellie, but the whole romance between her and Will seems forced and very not mid - 1950s, especially for a member of the clergy. They almost have sex in an alley on the 1st date? Then she accuses him of humiliating her by not continuing when they start going at it in the vicarage? In that time, the humiliation would have been to think a woman was available for sex outside of marriage, not the other way round. And you'd think before dating her Will and she would have talked about her views on religion. No sense pursuing a relationship if she isn't of the same faith.

[willowk]

7 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

That totally cracked me up. He really was doing it just for the sex, though I do think he has a genuine fondness, at the very least, for Ellie. We're in the early '60s now, right? So Beatlemania should be happening (I totally get why we don't hear any songs; the rights cost a fortune!), and there should be some societal rumblings even someplace like placid Cambridge/Grantchester. Maybe especially placid Cambridge because it's a university town. Oh, Will. 

At least he called Leonard a genius before leaving. I think Sydney would have just up and run out.

I'd like to see him talk to Leonard about celibacy. There's no requirement in the Anglican Church for it—indeed, it was abolished in 1549! Will seems to be testing himself somehow. If he thinks love for a woman will be stronger than his love for God, well, he should have dealt with that before he became a priest. 

I thought they were in 1955, at least that is when the movie was made that was showing in the theatre during the episode where the projectionist was killed.

[12catcrazy]

11 minutes ago, willowk said:

The storyline with Cathy's mom was one i wasn't expecting and thought they did a great job with it. I do fear for her being sent into treatment given what Leonard said and Will's experience with the academic psychologists. What a mess.

I like Ellie, but the whole romance between her and Will seems forced and very not mid - 1950s, especially for a member of the clergy. They almost have sex in an alley on the 1st date? Then she accuses him of humiliating her by not continuing when they start going at it in the vicarage? In that time, the humiliation would have been to think a woman was available for sex outside of marriage, not the other way round. And you'd think before dating her Will and she would have talked about her views on religion. No sense pursuing a relationship if she isn't of the same faith.

Yes!  I dislike how so many of these shows that supposedly are taking place in earlier times are picturing people with more of today's moral outlook.    

Ellie doesnt have to be portrayed as a virgin but she and Will are out on a date and shes wearing this fancy dress and he has her in the alley like she was a cheap streetwalker.   I dont buy it; not two "decent" people in that time and place out on a first date.  

[dubbel zout]

23 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

 I dont buy it; not two "decent" people in that time and place out on a first date.  

I buy it with these two people. They both live somewhat unconventional lives; why wouldn't they have more liberal views toward sex? 

If Will were "decent," he wouldn't let Leonard have a sleepover with his boyfriend at the vicarage. He likely would tell the church hierarchy about Leonard and insist it do something.

[Pallas]

The Behind the Scenes video and the PBS webpage for the show state that Season 5 is set in 1957. So we're at the beginning of Harold Macmillan's tenure as PM, and still six years away from Beatlemania. John and Ringo are 17; Paul is 15; George is 14. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by Pallas

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, Pallas said:

Season 5 is set in 1957

Thanks, @Pallas. Good to know. 

[zoey1996]

On 6/29/2020 at 1:05 AM, magdalene said:

"Women who kill" must be the theme of the season.  I am quite liking this season and now hope we will get another one.

Cherchez la femme.  One of the few things I remember from high school French class many years ago.

I felt bad for Cathy, to have lived with her mother’s illness for so long, trying to conceal it and take care of her mother.  Also feel bad for Mrs. C, having already been in a bad marriage, and to find out the second husband was so different than she’d thought.  Loved Leonard trying to comfort and care for her.

[Sarah 103]

On 6/17/2020 at 2:20 AM, TrininisaScorp said:

Will is easy on the eyes, and looks super cute in a tux.  What can I say?  I'm easy. 

He did look great in the tux, but I also love it when they put Will into tight t-shirts when he's boxing. 

 

 

[sinycalone]

I thought the portrayal of Cathy's mother's illness and the situation the family was forced into was very realistic for the times.  They really had few options, especially considering they were not wealthy enough for private care of some kind.

Leonard was very supportive of Mrs. M (or should I say Mrs. C), and he was the perfect one for the proper reaction and comfort.

It was absurd for Will to propse...and her response was perfect....no way.

Geordie is definitely back to being a good husband and father.  I guess Cathy never really talked about her mother's mood swings, strange behavior, etc.

 

 

 

[dubbel zout]

18 minutes ago, sinycalone said:

I guess Cathy never really talked about her mother's mood swings, strange behavior, etc.

She was mostly likely ashamed of it. And it's possible that Geordie hadn't ever seen her mother cycling, so there'd be no impetus for Cathy to mention it.

[JudyObscure]

16 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

She was mostly likely ashamed of it. And it's possible that Geordie hadn't ever seen her mother cycling, so there'd be no impetus for Cathy to mention it.

Yes, I'll bet the children learn, at a very young age, to downplay everything.  Cathy would probably describe her mother's activities, as "Oh that's just my mom, she gets all enthusiastic about things and then drops them."  "My mom's staying in bed today, she gets headaches."

[dargosmydaddy]

I do kind of question Cathy letting her mom care for her children... I mean, I guess she was between a rock and a hard place once Geordie invited the mom to stay (really not wanting to tell him anything was wrong) and there was some denial involved as well (hoping/ assuming the mom is better now), but I would think mom instinct/ the desire to protect your own kids would win out, especially after the disastrous bus trip last episode. I mean, I guess she got there eventually (she was ready to quit her job), but I would think she'd want to keep her kids from experiencing what she did from the get go. 

[sinycalone]

On 7/8/2020 at 10:20 AM, dargosmydaddy said:

I do kind of question Cathy letting her mom care for her children... I mean, I guess she was between a rock and a hard place once Geordie invited the mom to stay (really not wanting to tell him anything was wrong) and there was some denial involved as well (hoping/ assuming the mom is better now), but I would think mom instinct/ the desire to protect your own kids would win out, especially after the disastrous bus trip last episode. I mean, I guess she got there eventually (she was ready to quit her job), but I would think she'd want to keep her kids from experiencing what she did from the get go. 

Cathy really fought against the bus trip....but how could she explain to her kids that her mother might be too unstable to supervise them?  It appears she covered for her mother as the children grew up....they obviously did not suspect her mental issues.

Edited July 10, 2020 by sinycalone

[ComeWhatMay]

My mother and her siblings did their best to cover for their mother growing up. Basically, you know she’s not right, but she’s what you have and you love your mother. Adult Cathy still covering for Diana while walking on eggshells and then calling around to try and find someone else to take Diana and that hang up hit home too. Even today, with medications and better treatment options available, a lot of families try to pretend things are okay when they are not and the consequences can be disastrous. 
 

Edited to add: Even with the money for the best available, some families do not want to risk the exposure of seeking treatment, then and now. 

Edited July 10, 2020 by ComeWhatMay
Forgot something.

[HoodlumSheep]

On 6/28/2020 at 11:16 PM, HoodlumSheep said:

The boxing trainer dude (vic?)...i had him pegged as someone who'd probabaly end up murdered based on his relevance so far...but something felt a bit sketchy tonight. The way he was kinda trying to cover for the young man (i can't recall his name)...hmmm. That kid was doing pretty well and now this so something's definitely going on.

 

My suspicions were correct!!!! Poor Will. Vic was a father figure to him. 😞

Blergh

Didn't quite like how they resolved the Mrs. C/Jack issue. Jack got off too easy imo.

That was quite the ending sermon. Yikes. 

Looks like our lady culprit streak has finally been broken. I was kinda hoping they'd try going 6 for 6 tbh. Oh well. 

[BlackberryJam]

Huh...I thought Vic’s true love marriage story was a pile of crap, but I hadn’t pegged him as a creeper. Interesting that Will just reads people so wrong. 

I kind of expected him to smash the mirror and then dash off for a roll in the hay with Ellie. That’s what Sidney would have done.

[Sarah 103]

On 7/8/2020 at 9:52 AM, JudyObscure said:

Yes, I'll bet the children learn, at a very young age, to downplay everything.  Cathy would probably describe her mother's activities, as "Oh that's just my mom, she gets all enthusiastic about things and then drops them."  "My mom's staying in bed today, she gets headaches."

And "mood swings," which would work really well with men at that time because at the time the idea of "women, so emotional, so unstable, so prone to mood swings" would have seemed a reasonable expanation. 

[rhys]

It was funny when Ellie "proposed" to Will. Good on her to turn the tables and show Will how ridiculous he sounded last week.

Jack remains an ass. I hated when he told Mrs. to sit down. Grrr.

[dargosmydaddy]

Well, that was heavy.

36 minutes ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Didn't quite like how they resolved the Mrs. C/Jack issue. Jack got off too easy imo.

This! The episode needed some levity, but the fact that they chose this storyline as their way to get it just felt wrong, and the ending was too pat.

I will say that the set up of the plots/ secondary characters has been pretty well done, definitely more so than in some of the previous seasons. We got to know Vic and Matt as characters first, which gave this episode more punch (no pun intended!) and the Cathy's mom story got multiple episodes to play out, as did Mrs. C's marital issues (even if I didn't like the way it ended). And whatever they're leading to with Leonard's dad has also been brewing for several episodes. I imagine that can be difficult in a season that's only six episodes long, and needs to focus primarily on the case of the week, so kudos for some decent planning on the writers' part.

[magdalene]

Will was understandably very upset but he didn't self-destruct the way Sidney would have done.

[dargosmydaddy]

7 minutes ago, magdalene said:

Will was understandably very upset but he didn't self-destruct the way Sidney would have done.

Well, there's still next week. (I'm not spoiled, but the preview looked... intriguing).

And his fire and brimstone sermon was an interesting (and not entirely appropriate?) reaction. I know Sidney's (and Will's, previously) sermons always reflected the theme of the week (because that's the show's way of bringing in the religious aspect and pounding home their point), but I don't remember Sidney ever being quite so angry during a sermon. (Though it's been awhile; maybe I just don't remember.) Will was kind of having a meltdown in the pulpit there.

[ComeWhatMay]

Will was losing it up there. Next week will be interesting. I do not think he is self-destructive like Sidney was, rather a long work in progress, but we will see. 

Lots of time to do better between abandoning your first love and baby as a selfish youth and living large off blood money in advanced age. Too pat an ending I agree with the Chapmans, but I see why they each want to stay put too.

Vic is vile. Glad Marie was persuaded to step up. Hope we see Will step up for Matt. He knows what it is to have no one. 

[magdalene]

What upset me the most was that Matt's mother called him a pervert.  And Will's face when the penny dropped about Vic....

Very difficult episode to watch, but so compelling.

[dubbel zout]

10 hours ago, dargosmydaddy said:

And his fire and brimstone sermon was an interesting (and not entirely appropriate?) reaction.

I loved Leonard's "Yikes!" face, and Geordie's more resigned "Well, he's trying to work it out" face. And the congregation was all "WTF?"

I'm sorry Vic turned out to be a molester. I liked the boxing gym as another location for the show to use. And yes, poor Will. His father hit him, and now his substitute father is a monster.

[sinycalone]

14 hours ago, magdalene said:

What upset me the most was that Matt's mother called him a pervert.  And Will's face when the penny dropped about Vic....

Very difficult episode to watch, but so compelling.

Matt'ss mother's reaction was heart wrenching.  Talk about having absolutely no one in your corner...with Will also seeming to shy away from Matt at that point.

Edited July 13, 2020 by sinycalone

[cardigirl]

I can't believe they brought in another annoying female to bother the clergyman.  I see no redeeming qualities in Ellie. Haven't liked her from the start, and don't think she's written or acted particularly well. 

Of the season, this episode was the best, but prior to this, I thought they were really struggling to get the characters going.  I love Leonard and so far he's the only one who's remained true to character. 

I'll watch the finale before I'll decide if I'm hoping for another season of Grantchester.  It's too bad, I really used to quite like this show. 

[zoey1996]

4 hours ago, sinycalone said:

Will's mother's reaction was heart wrenching.  Talk about having absolutely no one in your corner...with Will also seeming to shy away from Matt at that point.

Did you mean Matt’s mother?  

On 7/6/2020 at 10:53 AM, dubbel zout said:

I'd like to see him talk to Leonard about celibacy. There's no requirement in the Anglican Church for it—indeed, it was abolished in 1549! Will seems to be testing himself somehow. If he thinks love for a woman will be stronger than his love for God, well, he should have dealt with that before he became a priest. 

 

On 7/6/2020 at 11:10 AM, JudyObscure said:

I think it's chastity he's having trouble with. I imagine that's why he's so eager to get married.  Will probably thinks if he can have legal, marital sex every night, he'll be more settled and happy. As St.Paul said, "It's better to marry than to burn."  Will is burning right now and it probably would make life a little easier for him if he gets married, but not if it's to a woman who doesn't share his religious beliefs.  Paul also warned against being "unequally yoked."  Leonard cracked me up with his  frustrated, "I wish Paul hadn't written so many letters!"  

Celibacy was still required for unmarried priests/clergy.  In the Anglican Church, a married person can become a priest or marry after becoming a priest.  That has evolved over time, and with the ordination of women, some married priests serve in the same church.

So both Leonard and Will are expected to remain celibate at the time.

[sinycalone]

1 hour ago, zoey1996 said:

Did you mean Matt’s mother?  

 

Celibacy was still required for unmarried priests/clergy.  In the Anglican Church, a married person can become a priest or marry after becoming a priest.  That has evolved over time, and with the ordination of women, some married priests serve in the same church.

So both Leonard and Will are expected to remain celibate at the time.

Oops...sorry, yes I meant Matt's mother.

[JudyObscure]

7 hours ago, cardigirl said:

I can't believe they brought in another annoying female to bother the clergyman.  I see no redeeming qualities in Ellie. Haven't liked her from the start, and don't think she's written or acted particularly well. 

I'm glad it's not just me. What is supposed to be so appealing about aggressive young women angry at  priests for trying to maintain chastity/celibacy or even trying to  just act like 1950's gentlemen?  She has zero consideration for his feelings or anyone else for that matter.  

I'm also disappointed that Mrs. C is so quick to overlook her husband's horrible past and I didn't think it was at all cute that she misses her lovely jewelry.  Ugh.  I would never be happy wearing something I knew had been extorted from another woman.

[gingerella]

On 7/6/2020 at 4:18 PM, Pallas said:

The Behind the Scenes video and the PBS webpage for the show state that Season 5 is set in 1957. So we're at the beginning of Harold Macmillan's tenure as PM, and still six years away from Beatlemania. John and Ringo are 17; Paul is 15; George is 14. 

Hi @Pallas! Nice to see you on this thread my brethren...

Last night was a really heavy story line, whoa. I need to go back and watch this series from the first season...That said, I watched last season and was bummed to hear that Sidney was leaving, but this season I'm like, "Sidney who???" I really like Will a lot and I think the actor playing him is doing a great job with the push/pull of being a normal man his age vs. his calling as a vicar and what that means.

Edited July 13, 2020 by gingerella

[ComeWhatMay]

30 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

I'm also disappointed that Mrs. C is so quick to overlook her husband's horrible past and I didn't think it was at all cute that she misses her lovely jewelry.  Ugh.  I would never be happy wearing something I knew had been extorted from another woman.

Yes. People are together for a reason comes to mind. 

[dubbel zout]

12 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

What is supposed to be so appealing about aggressive young women angry at  priests for trying to maintain chastity/celibacy or even trying to  just act like 1950's gentlemen?  She has zero consideration for his feelings or anyone else for that matter.  

Will is sending mixed signals to Ellie. Then he gets huffy when she gets mad at how he's treating her? Shove it, Will. 

[BlackberryJam]

The storyline with Ellie is ill-advised.

I’ve mentioned I’m not a Mrs. C fan, so I’m unsurprised she forgave so easily. She really is a reflection of the social mentality of the times.

[HoodlumSheep]

*Ep. 1x05/Season 1 finale parallels:

-sidney goes to fancy party drunk→will goes to fancy party drunk (sidney was way worse tho considering he was also dealing with ptsd at the time)

-sidney sleeps with random lady (the jazz singer in ep. 5)→will sleeps with random lady (the ex-nun). Only difference was that it turned out better for will rather than sidney.

Pretty decent finale.

Leonard finally got some good focus!!! I'm sorry, but i'm on team leornard when it comes to how he handled his dad. I didn't care for daniel wagging his finger at leonard about the whole thing.

Geordie gunning for the husband of the year award, but alas, season 2/3 geordie will forever be lurking in a dark shadowy corner.

Didn't really care for the ex-nun actress. I feel like i get what she was going for, but she couldn't pull it off.

Glad matt and will made up.

Probably my favorite season since the early sidney years tbh. Much more tightly written, lighter in tone (outside the murders ofc). Good balance. If anything, it was a little light on the church stuff for my liking.

Edited July 20, 2020 by HoodlumSheep

[ComeWhatMay]

“You slept with the boss’ missus!” Heh, Geordie. Happy Birthday, Will. 

Leonard is well rid of his father. Not all parent-child relationships can or should be. 

Sidney was the reason things never turned out well for Sidney. He just wavered and wallowed. Glad Will, with a kick in the rear from Geordie, stepped up for Matt—and accepted what he cannot change with his mother. 

Happy there will be another season and I am sure filming from September on will take every pandemic precaution possible. 

[Sarah 103]

Daniel's gaydar is incredibly highly developed. Just hearing Leonard's description he suspected Leonard's father might have been gay, which is incredibly perceptive of him. I did enjoy how Will and Clement talked about getting the band to play rock and roll. It will probably never happen, but I would love to see Clement and Will in a longer scene together, or at least having a longer conversation at some family party/event next season. I loved the way Will resolved the situation with Matt and tried to make everything as okay as it could be. 

[nara]

This season has been interesting. I honestly think I might be a better priest than Sidney and Will...and I am not even Christian!
 

But seriously, this season has been heartbreaking! Vronky’s gang rape to Jack’s cruelty to Vic’s cruelty. Luckily, we still have Daniel as the voice of compassion. I did appreciate the realism of Leonard’s hypocrisy towards his dad. I cringed at Will’s drunken behavior at his mother’s wedding. 

I liked that Geordie is finally over his midlife crisis and is a good husband.

I like that Jack is not a cartoon bad guy.

The mysteries are mediocre but the character development is very strong in this series 

[dargosmydaddy]

Poor Leonard. He spends his formative years with an alcoholic father who's emotionally distant/ bullying towards him, and then goes on to live with Sidney and Will, who also don't do well with alcohol and are frequently less than nice to him. Thank goodness for Mrs. C!

Definitely seeing the Sidney/ Will parallels that HoodlumSheep mentioned... the random hook-up was soooo Sidney, though at least Will wasn't drunk when he did it. Also, was it just me or did Sister Grace bare a slight resemblance to Will's mom? 

Also, where was the youngest Keating child during Will's party?

[Irlandesa]

 

On 7/6/2020 at 11:30 AM, dargosmydaddy said:

I know they didn't want to change their successful formula too much, and that the change was necessitated by Norton's departure, but it feels like TPTB feel like they can't deviate much from what they had, and this would have been a nice chance for the show to grow and evolve more.

I think they're using Will as a Sidney "refresh."  They really wrote themselves into a corner with Sidney in that he never seemed to figure his way out of misery--or at least not for long--before he'd find himself into misery again.

And maybe that's the path they'll take with Will too but they've already taken major steps with him this season.  Plus, as a bonus, Ellie isn't married.  Or even some long star-crossed love.  If they want to be together, they can get together.  If they decide not to be together, she's someone he knew for a few months rather than someone he pined over for years. 

1 hour ago, HoodlumSheep said:

Leonard finally got some good focus!!! I'm sorry, but i'm on team leornard when it comes to how he handled his dad. I didn't care for daniel wagging his finger at leonard about the whole thing.

Yeah.  I felt Daniel was in the wrong there.  If he wants to have compassion for Leonard's father, I think that's okay but I think it's asking too much to expect Leonard to have that same compassion.  Being gay was really difficult back then, without a doubt.  But his father compounded the unfairness not only in how he treated his wife but in how he treated his son. 

If he really felt like that was the best choice he could have made, then I would expect an apology but there was none of that.

1 hour ago, nara said:

I liked that Geordie is finally over his midlife crisis and is a good husband.

Goodness me too.  I actually think Cathy having a job has been good for their marriage.  She looks happier and sexier.  Even though Geordie probably thought a housewife was he'd prefer, I think he's also responding to her self-sufficiency. 

[magdalene]

I thought there was a clear difference between Sidney's random self-destructive hook-ups and Will sleeping with Grace.  I saw this as a positive experience for Will and he was clearly in a better place emotionally because of it. I don't think he is going to make a habit out of hooking up with attractive ex-nuns but this was the right thing at the right time for him.  And because he was more content and less rigid and stuck he was able to come through for Matt and be more tolerant with his mother. 

I am sure there will be other crisis in the future but this season has given me hope that we are done with the general malaise of the Sidney years.

I am looking forward to the next season.

[buttersister]

Will and Geordie! Well-played, gents. Satisfying season’s end for them and the rest, really (looking at you, Leonard).

In one of the interviews linked above, Robson revealed we’d soon learn the backstory of

Spoiler

his hat.

Cant wait. 🤗

[sugarbaker design]

9 hours ago, nara said:

This season has been interesting. I honestly think I might be a better priest than Sidney and Will...and I am not even Christian!

Seriously, what parishioner would ever come to Will for counsel?   His lack of understanding of human nature is astounding.  Accidentally starting a youth athletic league with a pedophile, throwing a temper tantrum when his mother decides to remarry, proposing to a woman after a quick grope in an alley are just recent examples.

Did he really think those women left home on a whim?

Edited July 20, 2020 by sugarbaker design

[JudyObscure]

8 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

Yeah.  I felt Daniel was in the wrong there.  If he wants to have compassion for Leonard's father, I think that's okay but I think it's asking too much to expect Leonard to have that same compassion.

I agree.  It's  great to be  understanding about the problems gay men faced in the past, but nothing excuses marrying an innocent woman for cover when you know you don't really feel any passion for her and never will.  It's ruining another person's life to make your own more convenient and socially acceptable. I also think a lot of those self-hating gays in the past, like Leonard's father, blamed their wives for the way they were, as if she just wasn't desirable enough to  "change" him.  The poor woman would spend her life thinking if she just tried this new hair-do or kept the kitchen floor cleaner then he would find her attractive.

I'm okay with Will's preaching because he always uses his mistakes and what he's learned from them to inform his sermons.

Leonard and Mrs. C always have been my favorite "couple" since she first saw him vacuuming and said, "Now there's a real man!"  I'm glad they have each other through bad husbands and mean fathers.  

 

[sugarbaker design]

12 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

but nothing excuses marrying an innocent woman for cover when you know you don't really feel any passion for her and never will.

It doesn't excuse it but it does explain it.  These men didn't enter these unions lightly, it was a matter of survival.  In 1950's England, prospects for gay men were slim.  There weren't many options like the priesthood and moving to France.  You could be jailed, fired, and kicked out of housing for just being perceived to be gay.  That was just from the government,  employers and landlords.  Families, backed by their churches, disowned their own kids. There was also gay-bashing and extortion.  I don't judge these men, I pity them and their wives.

[TVForever]

Good grief, is this season over already? I was enjoying it more than I realized!